Has anybody researched in or around Cañadas de Obregon? I'm looking for the church records for this town but they don't come out on familysearch. Were they ever filmed? And if not, are they located in another parish? I'm trying to find info on the Perez family (yes, those from the famous corrido), who may be related to my wife. I was able to find the civil registry of Cañadas, and the death certificates of Ysidro Perez, Mariano Perez, and Jesus Munoz Perez. However, I'm also interested in their church records since they may provide additional information about this family.
Any advice? I learned that the town was named Villa Obregon for several decades, but that name does not come out on familysearch either.
Steve in NC
Hello, my parents and grandparents and ancestors came from Villa Obregon. My grandfather Florencio Villalobos had a ranch called "La Campanita" and he went to to Arizona around 1907-1909 with a Mariano Perez and his brother Lucio Perez but my grandfather never returned. He died somewhere in Arizona. My mother lived to 107 yrs. of age and just passed away recently, she told us many stories about Canadas, Jalisco. Did the Mariano Perez you're looking for live around that time?
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Hello, I assumed that the Perez family were from Canadas, but another member provided the info that verifies they were from rancho del Papalote near San Juan de Los Lagos. Here's a website that tells some of the story of the Perez family:
http://sanmartintotolan.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=166
It's in Spanish, so I hope you can read it. According to that story, Mariano and his brother or brothers went to work in Arizona for a time. Other brothers, named Oropeza, went to Arizona as well, but they came back to Jalisco much sooner. The Perez brothers sent some cash, clothes and guns for their families with the Oropezas. Apparently, the Oropezas never delivered the stuff to the Perez family in Jalisco. When Mariano and his brothers returned, they found out, and the rest is history. This website's story goes into much more detail.
The death of Mariano, Isidro and Jesus took place in 1911, so it seems like they could be the same people that traveled with your grandfather. Please, share some
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Thanks Steve,
My mother would have been so happy to hear, even a century later, that Lucio and Mariano Perez returned home. They did write his father Ysidro Villalobos regarding Florencio's death. Apparently he died of some illness and consequent surgery. I searched the death records in Globe and Jerome AZ but couldn't find any record of his death.
Yes, my mother told us many stories from her era. I have very descriptive stories about the Oropesas and Jimenez and the "Revoltosos" that took Ysidro's horse and saddle, among other things. I've been working on my family genealogy book since 2004. It's still a work in progress, believe it or not. Since my mother's death in 2013 it's been difficult for me to go back to my books and pile of notes, but I'll certainly share some of the stories with you when I complete writing and re-checking all my notes, which were written at different times.
Thanks for your input.
Merci Gomez Villalobos
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Hi Steve,
When you first asked about Canadas, I responded by talking about two scandalous shooting incidents. One of the incidents was the shootings at the river. The other incident sounds like it is the shootout that your family members were in. I did not remember much about the one your family was in except that people were running for their life and that there were lots of bullets flying all over the place. One thing that I do remember was that it was talked about amongst ourselves that it was suspected that my older cousins husband had relatives were involved in both incidents. His last name was Oropesa Lomeli. I had assumed that both shootings involved the Lomelin since I know that the river shooting was done by Lomelis. This other shooting must have involved his other side of the family and not the Lomeli since the posting states that the mans surname was Oropesa.
Your family may have been born in San Juan de los Lagos but the shootings did take place in Canadas de Obregon
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Steve,
These records do exist, but they weren't microfilmed, they begin in 1796. Isidro and his brother Mariano Perez Rueda, as well as their first cousin Jose de Jesus Muñoz Perez were all baptized in San Juan de los Lagos.
Isidro (1879-1911) and his older brother Mariano (1877-1911) were born in El Papalote near San Juan de los Lagos, they weren't from Cañadas de Obregon. Jose de Jesus was born in 1888. They are from the Perez Franco(de Paredes) lineage, not from the Perez Gallo.
Rick
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Hello,
I just read your message about the church records not being microfilmed. I realize your post is from 2015 but was just wondering if you knew how or where to find the church records if they are not online? Thank you for your time.
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I read this thread today and feel that part of it comes close to
crossing the line. Anyone who pulls records on a daily basis is well aware
of who there ancestors are, but to pick out a handful and obsessively focus
on their race, ethnicity and religion and talk of conspiracies and
bloodlines using words like pure, not to mention putting down in writing
stereotypes which are already offensive and certainly don't need repeating,
is unnecessary.
Paige
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Dear Paige
I was not saying these things to offend but as a response to the people who claim that their bloodline is pure and that they don't have judeoconverso ancestors. The ancestor I am speaking of is one that genealogists in Jalisco have been looking for for years. He happens to fit the stereotype that many people attach so they are really going to be bothered by these findings. I look for all my ancestors equally, with no agenda to make them a certain race or religion. This ancestor was involved in what is known as the great conspiracy. Because of what he did, I was able to find records of his ancestry and descendancy.
I am sorry I offended you. I won't write about this ancestor anymore on this site.
I myself am still bothered by someone else's comments about their bloodline being pure
R A Ricci
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Dear Mr. Ricci,
I would not be offended by a normal discussion of race, religion or
ethnicity in the course of genealogical research. Obviously, as someone
that descends from Españoles, Indios, Mulatos, etc., it would be impossible
to do research without mentioning race. But this wasn't a discussion about
our ancestors that mentioned race, this was a post about race and
stereotypes, that cryptically, doesn't even mention the ancestor in
question, which, is also kind of annoying. Why post something about someone
that you have no intention of ever naming?
Paige
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Dear Mr. Ricci, is this ancestors in some way related to Lope Ruiz de Esparza? In that case, I, as well as other members would love to hear the details about this ancestor. It is a fact of life that we all have good and bad ancestors, from many different backgrounds. And I appreciate and respect all of them, from the ones with a supposed royal lineage, to the ones that are just mentioned as "de padres no conocidos". Please, I would appreciate it if you provide some names and dates. Even if not related to us, it's always interesting to learn something new.
Steve
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Hi Steve ,
No, I did not attend Coachella High School. I am working it on a book where I will provide many interesting stories about some of our ancestors, siblings or close cousins to our ancestors. I had about five different books started but I have decided to put four books aside and just finish one book. The book that i will finish first will have an added connection thanks to information that Chris added about Onofre Joseph Perez Gallo. If any one wants to add their line to the book, they can send me their information and I will add their line after I check for its accuracy. My cousin Dr. Edmundo Andrade Romo has offered to help me out with the publishing of this book and I am taking him up on it. He actually insisted that I finish one book now and take care of the other books later. I actually have two books that are almost 80 percent finished, three books that are 60 percent finished. I will focus on just finishing one, with a second one following soon after.
My
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Hi Steve ,
No, I did not attend Coachella High School. I am working it on a book where I will provide many interesting stories about some of our ancestors, siblings or close cousins to our ancestors. I had about five different books started but I have decided to put four books aside and just finish one book. The book that i will finish first will have an added connection thanks to information that Chris added about Onofre Joseph Perez Gallo. If any one wants to add their line to the book, they can send me their information and I will add their line after I check for its accuracy. My cousin Dr. Edmundo Andrade Romo has offered to help me out with the publishing of this book and I am taking him up on it. He actually insisted that I finish one book now and take care of the other books later. I actually have two books that are almost 80 percent finished, three books that are 60 percent finished. I will focus on just finishing one, with a second one following soon after.
My
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George Fulton is correct. I recall a couple of Jalostotitlan records of my family stated that they were born in Canadas (villa de Oregon). I believe that is where you will find the old records. Canadas was small when I was growing up and visited in 1960's. When I visited in the 1980's it had grown quite a bit but still had the small town atmosphere. It is a nice place to visit, very relaxing. I remember going to see the bulls in the old stadium that the people there were very proud of. I don't know if I remember correctly, but canadas was known for its candy stands. The name has gone back and forth, since the formal name was not used by many people.
An uncle of mine owned a ranch between Valle de Guadalupe and Canadas. I remember riding horses there when I was a kid. The first time I rode a horse there, I learned to duck when riding by a tree with low branches when it is windy. it only took a few scratches to learn my lesson. This uncle was married to my maternal aunt. It
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Thanks George Fulton and R A Ricci for your suggestions. I will look into Jalostotitlan and other nearby parishes, hopefully, I will be able to find some information. My wife's paternal grandfather's name was Luis Garcia Perez. He lived in a town in the border with Michoacan called La Ribera, Jalisco. I don't have info on his parents, but several members of my wife's family swear there is a blood relationship between Luis and the Perez from Cañadas. I'm trying to verify or correct this family story. I am aware that oftentimes, family stories may be a little bit exaggerated, but even with those exaggerations, they often have a real origin and many of them are not that far from the truth.
Saludos.
Steve in NC
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Hello, I am also looking for my grandfather Marcelino Jimenez and I believe I found his sister,s 1930 MX Census in Obregon Jalisco and then again in Valle de Guadalupe Jalisco (?) for the exact same date. I know his father's name was Genaro Jimenez and his mother's was Ygnacia Gallo. My grandfather was born in June 1900-1902 according to his 1940 US Census and death records. I applied for his 1936 SS app but as always, only MEXICO is stated. I found his newspaper archives obituary from Dallas and that is how U found he had a sister named Manuela Jimenez married to Refugio Gamez in Obregon and another sister Inez. Brothers were Jesus, Jose and Ramauldo Jimenez. I searched in so many surrounding areas, but still cannot find my grandfather's birth records. Any suggestions? I believe I found Ygnacia's (my great grandmother's death records in 1911 Yahualica Jalisco).
Thank you,
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A branch of Jiménez that ended up in el Valle de Guadalupe is actually from a Jimenez family that spread out from Jalostotitlan and sprouted branches that went to San Miguel el Alto and from there branched out to Valle de Guadalupe, Canadas de Obregon, and. Ameca.
Valle de Guadalupe and Canadas are very close to each other. I have cousins that are surnamed Barba and others surnamed Perez that have ranches between the two towns.
A branch of the Jimenez left San Miguel el Alto and went to Ameca Jalisco which is not close Canadas. Ameca is not in Los altos de Jalisco and is on the other side of Guadalajara but they are the same family.
The Perez-Gallo family in Canadas was originally from Jalostotitlan and they drifted to Canadas with my cousins grandfather settling in el Valle de Guadlupe. The Perez Gallo , Alvarez tostado and Gomez de Mendoza intermarried repeatedly I the 1800's and some of their records are found in Jalostotitlan. I descend from these families.
R A Ricci
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I found a document that verifies that the "Manuela Jimenez Gamez" 1930 census in Valle de Guadalupe, Jalisco I found is definitely my grandfather's sister. I found Manuela's son's crossover papers that list his mother's name as " Manuela Jimenez-Gallo" and father "Refugio Gamez" which matches the census record. I might have found her other sister "Ines Jimenez" married to Candelario Lomeli, also in Valle de Guadalupe's census. I have not found an actually tie to this census document, but I know from my grandfather's obituary showed he had a sister named Ines. Now I need to search for a link of Ines to Marcelino (my grandfather) and/or their parents Ygnacia Gallo & Genaro Jimenez. The search goes on.....
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I found my grandfather's birth records in Canadas de Obregon civil records. His line is: Marcelino > Genaro > Marcelino > Nicolas > Mariano Ximenes. Mariano's children were born in Mexticacan and Los Lagos in the late 1700's, but grandparents are not listed. Does anyone have any information about this Jalisco Ximenes family? The Gallo line is Ignacia > Lorenzo > Anastacio > Jose Sostenes; all in Canadas.
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This Gallo family from Canadas is also part of my family tree. The surname was originally Perez -Gallo. Now that you have gone that far back you should look for Perez -Gallo and not just Gallo. They intermarried often with the Gomez Hurtado de Mendosa, Alvarez Tostado, and fernandez de Rueda.
I descend from Jose Onofre Perez-Gallo who married at least three times in the mid 1700's and left many descendants in Jalostotitlan, Canadas de Obregon, and Valle de Guadalupe.
Sometimes he was known as Onofre Jose Perez-Gallo
The Jimenez family that you are talking about May be the Jimenez de Castro family from this area.
Is your Sostenes Gallo the husband of Thomasa Perez who had a son christened in Jalostotitlan on 22/Aug/1819 by the name of Jose Anastacio Perez-Gallo?
R A Ricci
PS. This maybe of some help:
Perez Gallo
Jose Anastasio Gallo Perez
Gender: Male
Christening Date: 22 Aug 1819
Christening Place: NUESTRA SENORA DE LA ASUNCION,JALOSTOTITLAN,JALISCO,MEXICO
Father's
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Yes, my Sostenes was married to Tomasa. His son Anastacio is my great great great grandfather. I found a marriage record for Anastacio's son Miguel Gallo {Lorenzo's brother} in Canada's civil marriage records listing parents as Anastacio Gallo and Tiburcia Alvares which matches Lorenzo's death record, but Sostenes wife is listed as Tomasa "Ruis", so this was trowing me off from all the other records coming up with his wife as Tomasa "Perez". Thank you for this valuable information.
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Tomasa Perez was also known as Tomasa Ruiz because she also descended from the Esparza which was originally Ruiz de Esparza.
I have good news and bad news for you. The good news is that we are now family. The bad news is that we are now family. I say good news because I can now provide with much much more information that makes us connected to all the presidents of the United States except for one who was from Holland and has no common ancestors that I know of. I can tell you how your ancestors descend from English French and Spanish kings over and over again. These lines go over a thousand years.
The bad news is that my research is despised by many people because they say that I unnecessarily go out of my way to find indian jewish and moor ancestors. Even worse, my recent research results point to an ancestor that was the stereotypical Jew, greedy and out to cheat to create a big business deal. Not only that but this ancestor conspired to kill an inquisitor and the
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I started my search of my grandfather Marcelino over a year ago for this one main purpose, to find out if my family has Jewish descent, but I then fell in love with the whole process of meeting previous family members through documents and history. I read an article which may or may not be true, but I found interesting.... which explained the Spanish surnames ending in EZ; like Jimenez, stood for "Eres Zion" to keep their Jewishness secret after Queen Isabel expelled the Jews from Spain. I was so hoping my family was Jewish descent and I went on a mission. My family members are now Christians, but I was excited to find out what I could about being Jewish. I was able to search my father's line; Villareal back to Diego Villareal and I read a story stating Diego Villareal was accused of being of the Jewish line, but I knew Aniceto Villareal was actually a step father and not of my blood line.
My maternal grandmothers line is from Jerez. Zacatecas. I was able to trace them back to the
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Hi Cynthia,
Names that end in ez denote the son of someone, e.g., Martinez, is the son of Martin. Fernandez, is the son of Fernando. Lopez, is the son of Lope. Jimenez, is the son of Jimeno, etc.
Christopher de Cuellar
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Hello Cynthia,
Finding evidence of jewish ancestry isn't as easy as a DNA test. Just because someone is a conquistador does not mean that he isn't a judeoconverso. Even looking for records, it is easy to hide the evidence. The Spanish King asked the same question about his own people. They told him that it was easy to tell which of his subjects continued practicing jewish traditions. Just take a look at the chimneys on a cold sabbath. Even on an exceptionally cold day, these chimneys would not be used on the Sabbath. I look at the chimneys on cold sabbaths.
I also look at records of trials
R A Ricci
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Thank you, this is all very interesting and helpful.
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To find out details about our ancestors we have todo a lot of reading and hope to find details in the records. There are a lot of interesting stories to be found in records, but sometimes a lot of reading must be done before an interesting story or detail is found.
Good luck in your research,
Rick A Ricci
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Hi Cynthia,
I also administer DNA projects for Los Altos de Jalisco and Nueva Galicia at Family Tree DNA. I can tell you that some autosomal results do show Jewish percentages. I would recommend you take the "Family Finder" DNA test to see if they also come up on yours, as well as your European, Native American, African, Mediterranean, Asian, etc. percentages.
Rick Rodriguez
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It turns out that the stories that I have found about our "possible" ancestor and his role in the murder of an inquisitor that was made a saint are wrong. It was clear that a couple of his brothers and relatives were involved. Many people believe he may have been part of the conspiracy because they confused him with his cousin, who has the same name, who was hanged in effigy and escaped death by going to Italy. I had picked up the information from sources that had mistakenly identified them as the same person. The problem was that even during his life time people confused the two. Both of them were employed by King Ferdinand of Aragon. The guilty cousin was a jurist. The other confusing part is that a Libro Verde has them as first cousins. This Libro verde has numerous mistakes. They are not first cousins. I am still working on figuring out if they are second or third cousins.
He was involved in the other scandal that involved the illegal sale of grain.
Rick A. Ricci
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One question, how is it that there are two recorded marriages twenty years apart for the same couple? I first thought this may be a typo until I pulled the documents.
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Hi Cynthia,
Which couple is married twenty years apart? Can you post the links so I can see?
Chris
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Hello Chris,
Here are the two marriages twenty years apart of what seem to be the same couple, Onofre Joseph Perez Gallo and Manuela Reinoso.
Onofre Joseph Perez Gallo
Spouse's Name: Manuela Reinoso
Event Date: 30 Jun 1779
Event Place: Nuestra Senora De La Asuncion,Jalostotitlan,Jalisco,Mexico
Spouse's Father's Name: Melchor Reinoso
Spouse's Mother's Name: Maria Gonzales
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M60322-6 , System Origin: Mexico-ODM , GS Film number: 279297
Name: Onofre Joseph Peres Gallo
Spouse's Name: Manuela Reinozo
Event Date: 02 Jul 1758
Event Place: Nuestra Senora De La Asuncion,Jalostotitlan,Jalisco,Mexico
Spouse's Father's Name: Melchor Reinozo
Spouse's Mother's Name: Maria Gonsales Rubio
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M60322-5 , System Origin: Mexico-ODM , GS Film number: 279296 ,
Image. 225 of 723
Vuido de segundas nupcias de Maria Luisa Gonzalez de Hermosillo
Thanks,
Rick A Ricci
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I do not believe that 2 sisters married the same person: Onofre Perez Gallo married Maria Manuela Reynoso twice.
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R. A. Ricci: One question, how is it that there are two recorded marriages twenty years apart for the same couple? I first thought this may be a typo until I pulled the documents.
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II noticed the same thing? I have no answer. I was going to pull them both up and study them but you beat me to it.
I have the same thing on another couple that I am studying in Spain in relation to the Pantoja family but in that case the brides are different people but the same name (great aunt and great niece) and the groom may or may not be the same person. The groom seems to be a son or grandson through the elders other marriages but in one document is identified as the same person. This documents description is way after the fact during a inheritance battle and this document seems most likely to be in error as the elder groom is known as el Mayor and the younger tocallo is most likely the menor or what they would call "el mozo" and the groom in the second marriage. It has caused great confusion for those studying the Pantoja line. What contrinbutes to the confusion is that El Mayors" immediate descendants that shared his name also use the same combined surname Pantoja
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Onofre married 20 years apart, both named Manuela. Maria Manuela Reinoso
Marriage 1758 Link - 02 Jul 1758 • Jalostotilán, Jalisco, Mexico -
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18447-9385-34?cc=1874591&wc=…
Marriage - Manuela and Onofre 30 Jun 1779 • Jalostotilán, Jalisco, Mexico
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-XY12-X?cc=1874591&wc=3J45-…
After reading a dispensa for Onofre Peres Gallo and Maria Manuela Reynoso - I believe what happened was when they were first married, they needed a dispensa and did't get one. So, 22 years later a complaint was lodged by Leonor Gomes (97 years old) and her son-in-law Joachin Peres. After jumping through the hoops, there marriage was approved so they got married again.
LINK FOR DISPENSA - https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-6RSR-4C?cc=1874591&wc=3J4M…
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Mariano Jimenez married Luciana Gertrudis Yañez on May 13, 1762 in Guadalajara. His parents were Cristobal and Petra Delgadillo. This is where my research hits a wall because your ancestor Cristobal Jimenez was from Teocaltiche and this parish's marriage records are missing.
Rick
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Hello Rick, I pulled Mariano's marriage record to Yanez. Thank you for this information. I found this listing below for a child of a Mariano Ximenes and Yanes (same area & time frame). Have you researched this family? I was curious as to where the "y Alvarado" comes from after Mariano's name shown below. I searched for his mother as "Petra Delgadillo Alvarado", but so far nothing comes up.
I'm searching for Mariano's marriage records to Luisa Martin which is my lineage. I searched in San Lagos books of marriages in 1772-1773, but they were not listed there (His first child's recorded birth with Luiza Martin in Family Search is in San Lagos 1773). I'm looking for Nicolas Ximenez's birth records, somewhere in between San Lagos and Mexticacan. His marriage records says he's from Mexticacan. His wife was Guadalupe Iniques, born in Sept. 1790 in Mexticacan.
___________________________________________________________________________________
Name: Jph. Maria Ano Ximenez Yanes
Gender
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Jose Sostenes Gallo was born on April 21, 1796 in a ranch named Tecameca. His parents were Onofre Perez-Gallo and Rafaela Garcia.
Hope this helps out.
Rick
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Hi Cynthia,
I'm not sure if you noticed a post a couple of days ago about this Pérez Gallo family, but your Sostenes Gallo descends from them. As Rick mentioned, his parents were Onofre Pérez Gallo and Rafaela Garcia. They were married 22 June 1795 in Jalostotitlan.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18447-25777-9?cc=1874591&wc=…
Rafaela Garcia was the legitimate daughter of Don Jose Manuel Garcia and Doña María Esparza. Onofre Pérez Gallo was the legitimate son of Onofre Joseph Pérez Gallo and Maria Manuela Reynoso.
From the IM of Onofre Joseph Perez Gallo and Maria Manuela Reynoso you can see that Onofre Joseph Perez Gallo is the legitimate son of Don Joseph Pérez Gallo and Doña María de la Nava Álvarez Tostado:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18450-18804-27?cc=1874591&wc…
Joseph Pérez Gallo was born in March 1685 and baptized in Nuestra Señora de los Dolores, Teocaltiche, Jalisco on
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Rick, I could not find a listing of Mariano's parents on any of the children's birth records I could locate in Family Search. I have his wife's name as "Luiza Martin". Could this be Mariano's first or second wife? It took me over a year to find my grandfather's birth place and I did this by pulling his 1967 archived obituary in Dallas, Texas and found his sister's married name: Manuela Gamez. His brothers were Romauldo, Jesus and Jose. I just found their mother's (Igancia Gallo) death records and sadly she died when my grandfather was only three. Thank you for this information.
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Cynthia,
I can send you his birth record to your email. You can contact me at rodriguezdefrias@gmail.com, since I am still unable to receive notifications from this group's postings.
Rick
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Christopher, thank you for this information. I will pull these documents for my records.
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Cynthia,
Your grandfather Marcelino and Maria Ines Jimenez were in fact brother and sister. I know some of Maria Ines' descendants here in Valle de Guadalupe and they corroborated this fact a while back.
What exactly are you looking for? I've done extensive research on Cañadas de Obregon families, I just might already have what you're looking for.
Rick
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Marcelino Jimenez was born on June 24, 1901 in Cañadas de Obregon, his parents were Genaro Jimenez Romo and Ignacia Gallo Jimenez.
Let me know if you still need his baptism or birth records.
Rick
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Steve
Today this municipality is pretty small, about 3,500 people. Could it have been too small to have a parish of its own?
Perhaps there are records for it as a branch (or a chapel) of a larger parish? When looking at a map, there are some larger towns with parish churches in the vicinity. The Family Search catalog does not necessarily provide any details on branches/chapels that may be included. I looked at the catalog for Jalostotitlan, as an example, and the catalog gave no information.
Your option would seem to be to peruse the church records for the nearby communities. Records for a branch/chapel could be mixed with the regular parish records, they could be added at the end of a month or year. There is always the unfortunately possibility they are completely out of order, and may be found with another year.
The fact that the filmed civil records date from 1870 is suggestive of a rather small community (although there is always the possibility that earlier records could have
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Villa Obregon