I just been wondering what is know about Carlos Lomellin. I am a decedent of him through his son Lucas. I have research him and from other post that I have seen I know that he worked on the mines? I know that he came from Genoa Italy. Nobody seems to know who his parents were. Is this because Carlos is a dead end or because nobody has research the records in Italy?
Dear Ana,
You are not the only one looking for a reply button. First I want to answer your questions.
(1) My book is titled my genes2000
(2) The reference that I cite is "Napoli e Islam: storie de musulman schiava e rinnegati in eta moderna" by Giuliana Boccadano.
This book provides the information on when Porzia is baptized and that she belongs to Vincenzo Lomellini. The book also clarifies that "Porzia musulmana convertita al cristianesimo."
(3) I think that you should focus on the Lomellini Spinola line as the ancestry of Carlo Lomelin (Carlos Lomellini) and Luis Lomelin (Luciano Lomellini).
(4) there were many “Lomellini family” documents that were found in the Library of an estate. They were put up for sale for a tremendous amount of money many years ago. I don’t know if they were sold or donated, but I did have access to them many years ago.
What I can say for certain is that I have narrowed it down to these two cousins Named Carlo Lomellini. One Carlo Lomellini
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Bear with me I am not used to the new format yet. I didn't see a reply button so I am hope all is well. Quick question Rick what is the name of your book regarding the Lomellini family? We descend many times from that family line. Also where did you find Portzia's info on her back story?
Also do we not have a mother for Vincenzo di Lomellini yet? I didn't see it in the list. I did read some interesting information regarding the family and the paintings in the Prado , Scottish etc. Museums. Facninating family. I too think there is a connection with the Lomellini and the Lomelinos. In fact I think I know where the Lomelinos ended up in Italy and their Palace still stands but is under threat currently. I shudder to think what would happen to the building, it SHOULD be a UNESCO heritage site given the over 1000 year history and priceless wall paintings and frescos.
In the house there might even be more documents about the family in it, yeah, everything was just left as is, so it is just
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Brothers Luciano Lomellini (Luis Lomelin) and Carlo Lomellini Spinola (Carlo Lomelin)
1. Vassallo da Lumello, Consul de Genoa
2. Ansaldo Lomellini
3 Simone Lumbello (Lomellini ) + Giulia
4. Pietrino Lumbello (Lomellini ) + Tomasina
5. Leonello Lomellini + Catarina
6. Napoleone Lomellini + Teodora di Negro di Giorgio. [these are also Carlo's ancestors] they are 4th cousins
7. Goffredo Lomellini
8. Luciano Lomellini + Pometta Spinola
9. Goffredo Lomellini + 2nd wife Novella Cicala
10. Paolo Vincenzo Lomellini + Catarina Spinola
Parents of
11. Luciano Lomellini Spinola (AKA Luis Lomelin) And Carlo Lomellini Spinola (Carlos Lomelin)
Vasallo de Lumello picked up his surname from where he lived before becoming consul in Genoa. His children were the first to be called Lomellini. His first name came from his father’s surname. His father’s legitimate sons carried the Vasallo surname and they lived in Milan which was a rival city-state to Genoa. There did not it seem to be much
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Thank you Rick,
This is quite interesting, in particular the case of the -former- slave Porzia. Thank you for clearing this. I have seen how some people made up a last name name and background for Porzia. Perhaps they are ashamed to descend from a slave. I am not and I hope more studies focus on her, I find her marriage with Vicenzo most interesting.
Best regards,
Erik
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Dear Erik,
I also find the relationship and marriage of Vincenzo Lomellini and Porzia to be very interesting. For Vincenzo to be the “owner”of Porzia when she is converted from Muslim to Catholicism when she is baptized in 1551, and to later marry her has to be quite a story. To become the wife of a man who “owns her” and who is the leader of a large business that includes slave trading, is most likely a love story of “Cinderella” proportions. Vincenzo Lomellini descends from a family with much history going back to 385 ad, so for him to marry his slave meant that he was “head over heels” fascinated by her. If he wasn’t then he wouldn’t have married her as she was already his slave. Her life had to be a very interesting one.
In many generations we find that we are missing a spouse’s name. In the case of Vicenzo’s ’parents we only have his father’s name. Yet, we are provided with Porzia’s name and with the information that she had been his slave. When I tracked down her baptismal
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I believe I saw others referring to her as his Jewish slave or in historical texts as "schiava, poi moglie" which just means "Slave then wife". There is no mention of her background. I believe they identified her in the Van dyke painting she is supposedly in the red head in the painting dressed in black of course. Can you shoot me the link where it identifies her as a Muslim then Christian convert? I do Spanish paleography so I do not see documents like that very often in the archives.
Either a Jewish or Muslim would not matter when it came to slavery so she could be either only Christians could not be made slaves back then.
Thank you again, I am researching this line again and wanted to find all of our Lomellini ties.
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Porzia was a Muslim before she was converted to Catholicism. In a book that I posted it shows how her future husband had her baptized when she was a slave. Later on in other records she is listed a being his wife but previously his slave. ("Genealogie delle famiglie nobili di Genova" written by Natale Battilana). There is no questioning of these facts as there is documentation. This Carlo’s father worked in the same “company “ as Christopher Columbus S father and they had a great aunt that is married a “Marin” and they are the ancestors of the Marin branch that went to Mexico and left many descendants.
What is still questionable is which of the two Carlo Lomellini is the Carlo Lomelin that came to Mexico and is the ancestor to the majority of the Lomeli . There is the one who does have a brother named Luciani Lomelini ( Luis Lomelin) and then there is the one that descends from Porzia. We know this from the date of Porzias baptism which would have made her most unlikely
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Lomellini. The first with this surname to Carlo Lomelin
1)-Vasallo da Lumello, Console di Genova - Born: 1160 in Lombardia, Italia. - Residence: in Genova, Italia Died: Aft. 1198 in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia. Vasallo descends two Vasallo Vasallo so he isn’t the first to have it as a first name. His half-siblings that are legitimate carry the Vasallo surname.
2)-Ansaldo da Lumello - Died: Aft. 1248 in Genova, Italia
3)- Simone da Lumello Died: 1253 in Genova, Italia
........... +Giulia - Born: in Genova, Italia
4)-Oberto da Lumello- Died: Aft. 1292 in Genova, Italia
........... +Angela- Born: in Genova, Italia
5)- Benedetto Lomellini- Born: in Genova, Italia
............ +Gioffredina- Born: in Genova, Italia
6)-Tobia Lomellini- Born: in Genova, Italia-
............. +Orietta- Born: in Genova
7)- Tobia Lomellini- Born: in Genova, Italia--
..............+ Franca (Francesca) Lomellini- Born: in Genova, Italia- Father: Niccolo Lomellini Mother: Luchina Lercari
8)-
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Steven Francisco Hernández organized the tree as follows, however I did make a few additions to Vincenzo Lomellini and Porzia’s information. The reason for the two lines is that Carlo descends from two branches of the Lomellini family. The first branch is through Francesca Lomellini, and the second branch is through her husband Tobia Lomellini.
1 Vasallo da Lumello, Console di Genova - Born: 1150 - 1160 in Lombardia, Italia. - Residence: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia Died: Aft. 1198 in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia. Vasallo is named after his paternal grandfather.
. 2 Ansaldo da Lumello - Born: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia Died: Aft. 1248 in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia
..... 3 Simone da Lumello Born: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia- Died: 1253 in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia
........... +Giulia - Born: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia - Married: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia-
........ 4 Pietrino da Lumello
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The thread on the latest on Carlo Lomelin’s ancestry at : http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/20549,
In this thread you will find that The father of Carlo Lomellini, Vicenzo Lomellini, is the leader of the Lomellini/Marini business group that were merchants that also were slave traders. This is the information that had been passed down by Carlo Lomelin’s descendants in Los Altos de Jalisco for over four hundred years. The research led to the information that Capitan Luis Marin, that is married to a relative of the second wife of Hernan Cortez, is a cousin of Carlo Lomelini as Capitan Luis Marin descends from Vicenzo’s aunt, sister of Vicenzo’s father.
Vicenzo Lomellini does not use the name Paolo Vicenzo Lomellini. The name Paolo Vicenzo Lomellini is the name of the father of Luciano Lomelin Spinola. Luciano’s family was also in Castilla and involved in business with Vicenzo. The Lomellini/Marini family had part of the business based in San Lucar de Barrameda.
Steven
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Earlier In this thread I incorrectly posted
“ Francisco de la Cueva y "María Lomelín hija de Luis Lomelin y Maria del Olmos".
But this Maria is not their daughter.. The Maria Lomelin that is married to Francisco De la Cueva is their great granddaughter. I posted the correct lineage in the thread on my Corea Peralta ancestry.
Another mistake that I wrote in this thread was that Paolo Vicenzo Lomelini was richer than his cousin Vicenzo Lomelin, but that was not true. Vicenzo Lomellini was the leader of the Lomelini and Marin clan in Castilla. This business group included Vicenzo’s aunt who is also my ancestor as she the grandmother or great grandmother of my ancestor Conquistador Luis Marin.
Even though Paolo Vicenzo Lomelin and Vicenzo Lomelin were only third cousins, they held a much closer business relationship and Vicenzo was the one in charge. This family was in involved in the slave trade so the stories we heard about Carlo Lomelini’s family being slave traders is true
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Hi Rick,
It's not by much but here it is:
Esther (me)
AC
Predicted relationship: 5th–8th Cousin
Shared DNA: 7 cM across 1 segments
OC
Predicted relationship: 5th–8th Cousin
Shared DNA: 7 cM across 1 segments
Patricia Romo
Predicted relationship: 4th–6th Cousin
Shared DNA: 25 cM across 3 segments
My grandmother - Socorro Fuentes Cervantes
AC
Predicted relationship: 5th–8th Cousin
Shared DNA: 11 cM across 4 segments
OC
Predicted relationship: 5th–8th Cousin
Shared DNA: 10 cM across 3 segments
Patricia Romo
Predicted relationship: 5th–8th Cousin
Shared DNA: 15 cM across 1 segments
My mother - Josefina Lopez Fuentes
AC
Predicted relationship: 4th–6th Cousin
Shared DNA: 20 cM across 3 segments
OC
Predicted relationship: 5th–8th Cousin
Shared DNA: 20 cM across 3 segments
Patricia Romo
Predicted relationship: 4th–6th Cousin
Shared DNA: 24 cM across 3 segments
My dad - Roberto Hernandez Ramirez
Patricia Romo
Predicted relationship: 5th–8th Cousin
Shared DNA: 11 cM across 1 segments
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My mother’s dna analysis from AncestryDNA shows her to be 18% Italian. Both her parents are from Los Altos De Jalisco. My mother has many Romo De Vivar, Perez-franco(Perestrello), Marin(i) and Lomelin(i) ancestral lines. I believe that these four ancestral lines are the ones that contribute to the majority of her 18% Italian results
While researching my Lomelini ancestors, my work merged with the research that I was doing on a few other Genoese ancestral lines that I was working on. I did not complete my book on my Lomellini ancestors because I wanted to see if I could find DNA evidence by compiling a reference line of descent that stayed in Genoa. Yesterday I attempted to contact, through email, italian descendants of siblings of the ancestors that I have been studying in order set up a dna analysis of their relationships to the the Lomellini descendants in Nueva Galicia. I hope to add these dna comparisons to my book.
Rick A. Ricci
Mygenes2000
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Hello Rick,
I just joined a Facebook group after being invited by another Ancestry member that noticed I have Lomelin family member in my tree. She has asked me to have descendants of the family join the group. She has MANY descendants of the Lomellini family in the group too who have the Landi surname. The group's name is Fam Lomelin Lomelin. I also wonder how many of us here have done DNA and uploaded to Gedmatch Genesis to see if we're related. I've tested myself, my mother, and a great aunt who is also from Jalisco. I'd be willing to share gedmatch numbers on here if anyone is interested.
Kenya
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Hi Kenya,
I uploaded DNA to Gedmatch and would be willing to share gedmatch numbers to see if we are related. I have hit a wall on my 6th great grandfather, Onofre de Lomelin (1730-1759) who died in El Rancho el Humedo, Jalostotitlan, Jalisco and am searching for clues on his father (no conosido) and mother Maria Nuñez ( - bef. 1754). Not alone in the search, I know of a few others here and on other sites searching for the same. I've come across some trees online who have a known Lomelin as a father (Gabriel, Hernando or Domingo) and a different mother, however his marriage certificate to Angela de Jesus Yniguez (abt 1734-abt 1777) m.February 13, 1754 states Maria Nuñez as mother, deceased and unknown father, yet Onofre is given the surname Lomelin. Hopefully we can find his baptismal certificate, death certificate for his mother or a marriage dispensa with key information than can shed some light.
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Hi Rick,
I just looked up "Mygenes2000" on ancestry to see if our DNA matched. I have my both my parents DNA as well as my maternal grandmother. My grandmother, mom and my self matched AC, OC and Patricia Romo and my father matched Patricia Romo. My parents and grandmother still live in Degollado, Jalisco.
Thank you,
Esther Hernandez Lopez
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Dear Esther Hernandez Lopez,
I don’t have my dna results posted, but the people you found, AC, OC, and Patricia Romo are closely related to me. I am curious as to how closely you are related to each one of them. How close of a cousin does Ancestry predict?
Thanks,
Rick A. Ricci
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My work on Carlo Lomellini is extensive. My work up to this point on Luis Lomeli is not as extensive and is more speculative as there are more possible people that can be our Luis Lomeli. At this time there are three possible Luis Lomelin, two with a mother surnamed Spinola, a third that is also from the Iberian peninsula. The third one is a recent discovery.
When I posted the family tree on possible Luis Lomelin, I stated that I was "trying on a Glass slipper" on possible Luis Lomelin's. Any work on Geni that shows Luis Lomelin's ancestry is just someone copying my speculation and falsely posting it as fact. There is still much research to compile on Luis Lomelin.
There are three men married to Maria Lomelin, a daughter of Luis Lomelin and Maria Olmo. Are there three marriages for one Maria Lomelin y Olmo?
I have confirmed that Maria had two marriages but still looking for more evidence of the third marriage.
Here are the marriages:
Francisco de la Cueva y "María Lomelín hija
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Hola Richard:
Esas familias vivieron en Querétaro.
Don Diego de Barrientos Ribera era el justicia mayor de Querétaro a principios del siglo XVII y existe un retrato de él y de dona María Lomelin, su mujer.
La familia de Doña María vivía en Querétaro en esa época.
"México bautismos, 1560-1950," database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N537-58F : 12 December 2014), Luis Lomelin in entry for Luisa Lomelin Del Olmo, 04 Mar 1606; citing Queretaro, Queretaro, Mexico, reference 2:RWFTVW; FHL microfilm 247,920.
"México bautismos, 1560-1950," database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N8D3-64B : 12 December 2014), Luis De Lomellin in entry for Ana De Lomellin Del Olmo, 09 Aug 1618; citing Queretaro, Queretaro, Mexico, reference 2:RWG19R; FHL microfilm 247,920.
Relación entre las familias del Olmo y Espíndola:
Hacia 1570 pasó a nueva España Doña Ana de Espíndola, presentándose como viuda del conquistador Francisco de Avendaño (Mendaño)
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Hola Marcelina,
Si tengo mas hijos de Luis Lomelin pero me faltan muchas piezas. Los Espindola viene de la Familia Genovez "Spinola" que ya tenian mucha relacion familiar con Los Lomellini. De los "Del Olmos" no tengo mas informacion. Los Avendaño es una familia conversa que viene de "la Casa de David".
Gracias,
Ricardo A. Ricci
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Hola Richard:
Creí que era Aben Dana, de la tribu de Dan.
La familia Ramírez de Coy y Alfaro Bravo de Lagunas era representante mercantil en los virreinatos del Duque de Béjar y Marqués de Gibraleón. Los Espíndola (Spínola), los Olmos, los Avendaño, etc. son familias asociadas y comisionistas de la red de distribución de productos.
No tengo identificados a los Lomelin como parte de esa red, pero muchas familias genovesas como los Spínola tenían representaciones en Sevilla y vivían en el mismo barrio "Calle de los Genoveses".
Marcelina
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Dear Becky,
Last week Veronica told me that you were a member of Nuestrosranchos. I was happily surprised by the news and racked my brain trying to remember seeing your name in posts. It wasn't until I did a little investigating that I discoverered that you, as "visitor", had originally asked about Carlo Lomellin. If it hadn't been for your question I probably would have just kept on researching the Lomellini in Spain, Portugal, and Italy without posting some of the information.
As you know by now, I have tremendous amount of information on the Lomeli / Lomellini family.
Yesterday I took a look at your mom's ancestry and collected some information, (baptismal records, marriage records and census records.) I also pulled birth records from the civil records to make sure I was researching the right people.
Hopefully during Easter break I can find time to put a package together for you and send it through regular mail.
Please tell everyone in the family that they are in our
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I believe Rodrigo de Carbajal and Juana Lomelin also had a daughter named Josefa de Carbajal. She was married to Jose Leal de Ayala. They had a daughter named Maria Leal de Ayala Carvajal and she was married to Augustin Gomez de Mendoza. I am descended from her through this line.
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Hola , I too descend from Augustin Gomez de Mendoza a several times.
Ronnie
________________________________
From: General on behalf of prettycool667@hotmail.com
Sent: Saturday, October 1, 2016 1:25 AM
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Descendant of Lucas?
I believe Rodrigo de Carbajal and Juana Lomelin also had a daughter named
Josefa de Cabajal. She was married to Jose Leal de Ayala. They had a daughter
named Maria Leal de Ayala Carvajal and she was married to Augustin Gomez de
Mendoza. I am descended to her through this line.
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please cancel my nuestros ranchos account permanently due to health issues.. Thank you.
-----Original Message-----
From: General [mailto:general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of Ronald Reynoso
Sent: Saturday, October 01, 2016 8:53 AM
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Descendant of Lucas?
Hola , I too descend from Augustin Gomez de Mendoza a several times.
Ronnie
________________________________
From: General on behalf of prettycool667@hotmail.com
Sent: Saturday, October 1, 2016 1:25 AM
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Descendant of Lucas?
I believe Rodrigo de Carbajal and Juana Lomelin also had a daughter named Josefa de Cabajal. She was married to Jose Leal de Ayala. They had a daughter named Maria Leal de Ayala Carvajal and she was married to Augustin Gomez de Mendoza. I am descended to her through this line.
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We keep repeating that the Lomelin of Mexico come from the Lomellini from Italy and that is correct for many, many centuries. But I have found that the branch that I have gone furthest back on leads right back to what is today Portugal and Spain. Back to the Visigoth kings of the Iberian Peninsula.
The Lomellini have a line that goes back to Rechila, the Suevic King of Galicia of the fifth century. His mother was the daughter of Wallia, King of the Visigoths. This line leads to the middle of the first century where documentation ends with Berik, King of the Goths.
R.A.Ricci
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In our research of Luis and Carlo Lomellini it seemed as we had little information to work with. But that is not so. We have gathered many little pieces that placed together like a jigsaw puzzle have helped us identify the possible and probable parents of the these two men. Some highly respected historians and genealogists have repeated the claim that they were brothers. We do not know where they got this information. These historians have not provided primary resources that we may inspect. We respected this claim but we realized that none of the present genealogists have seen or have any knowledge of a primary source to support this claim. Neither do we have any primary source to disprove this claim so we needed to proceed in our research as if it was possible that they were brothers, but also looking at data as if they were not brothers.
By looking at all the information that we have on these two men we were able to see that by separating our search into two directions we were able
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The Lomellini family, due to its high social class, business matters, education, and family traditions, left a vast amount of documents that record their lives and family connections.
The clues that I started off with were clues that seemed to revolve around Marco Lomellini who was a businessman who moved back and forth between Genoa and Spain. His descendants also moved back and forth. Marco had a lot of contact with Lomellini s from Genoa to Portugal. Gian Baptista Lomellini (aka Battista Leomelin), Bartolome Lomellini, Cosme Lomellini, and Baptista Lomellini were the Lomellini that left many descendants in Portugal that today use the surname Lomelino. As usual there was intermarrying of cousins between Marcos descendants and other lomellinis. There were three Battista Lomellini s living at the same time in Madiera, Portugal A daughter of Marcos married a cousin surnamed Lomellini so I had believed that the line could have come from his daughter. This sent me looking into all the
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On this previous post dated February 01, 2014 I listed only two Carlo Lomellinis alive with only one possibly being our Carlo Lomelin. There was a third Carlo Lomellini that I had originally thought was from a totally different time frame which would make him an impossible candidate but further research showed that the date I was originally working with turned out to not be birth dates. This Carlo Lomellini (2) does have a brother named Luciano Lomellini. Please check on another post of mine titled "are Carlo and Luis Lomelin brothers?" For more information on these two. In that other post I have included their descent from Vasallo Lumello.
R.A.Riccii
Thee information in this post is part of a book that is copyrighted by me. Any use of this information should reference its author.
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I have recd many emails asking me about any new news on my research on Carlos Lomelin. The good news is that I have continued my research and found a little more information but the bad news is that I have had to put my work aside lately and will not be able to finish a book by the end of summer. I will add that the window for the brothers Carlo Lomellini(2) and Luciano Lomellini (2) continues to shrink. Important and very specific information of a nephew of theirs makes it unlikely that they are our Carlo Lomellin and Luis Lomelin. Other information(dates of close relatives) also are taken into consideration.
The probability that Carlos Lomelin is the same Carlo Lomellini (1) son of Vicenzo Lomellini and Porzia is increasing as the window closes on Carlo Lomellini (2).
R A Ricci
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Hello Mr Ricci .....My name is Alejandro Lomeli. I am curious as to what the status of your book is. Ive been following your replies on here about Carlos and Luis Lomellini and am really looking forward to reading your work. I descend back 10 generations to Carlos Lomellini. Best Regards, A.Lomeli
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Hello Alejandro,
I believe that the information that I have discovered on Luis (Luciano) Lomeli (Lomellini) is the last puzzle piece that I needed to finally Name with conviction the parents of Carlo Lomellini. The book could be finished right now if it was only on the descendants and ancestors of Carlo Lomellini. But research of Carlo Lomellimi’s Ancestors has provided much information on the branches of the Lomellini family that went to the Iberian Peninsula (Spain and Portugal) before coming over to the Americas. The research has provided valuable ancestral information on Luis Luciano) Lomeli (Lomellini) and a famous cousin of Carlo Lomellini’s great grandfather.
The book will also include descendants of Luis Lomeli, Carlos’s fourth cousin. I am still working on Luis Lomeli’s descendants. Luis’s descendants are just a relatively recent addition to my research as in the past I had only focused on how Miguel Hidalgo Costilla and I descended from him. This information on Luis
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Did you ever find documentation of Luis Lomellini's parents? My family tree shows that I am a descendant. I know you said your book focus more on Carlo, but I was wondering if you had found any new information about Luis and his lineage. My ancestors settled in Tamazula Jalisco and in tracing the Munguia side it led me to the last names Coria and Lomellini.
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Dear A. Ricci, I am fascinated by your account of the Lomelini's and I too am trying to write a book on the Gonzalez Hermosillo, but like you, it is taking a long time. I have been doing my research for 6 years now and keep finding mistakes, so I go back to stage one. My connection to the Lomeli's is: Geronimo I, born 1669 in Jalostotitlan, was married to Martiana Lomeli Gavilan and I am trying to find her ancestors. I love doing this and should have been a genealogist.
My E-mail is: almagollings@hotmail.com
Have you published your book?
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Dear Alma,
I have her as Matiana (Martiana) Lomelin y Gonzalez de Hermosillo (Gavilán), daughter of Jose Lomelin y Hurtado de Mendoza (bap. 22/Apr/1640) and Michaela Gonzalez de Hermosillo y de Torres
Jose is the son of Domingo Lomellin and Juana Regina de Mendoza
Domingo Lomelin is the son of Carlo (s) Lomelin(i) and Maria Benavides y Cortes.
Michaela Gonzalez de Hermosillo y de Torres is the daughter of Francisco Munoz de Cabeza de Hermosillo and Francisca de Torres.
Geronimo and his spouse Matiana (Martiana) were related through the Gonzalez de Hermosillo.
The last name was not Lomeli. It was Lomelin. Carlos Lomelin was Carlo Lomellini in Italian.
I have much more information on these lines.
I hope this helps,
R.A. Ricci
Question:
Martiana Lomelini Gavilan
Submitted by almadegollings on Thu, 2016-07-14 17:14.
Dear A. Ricci, I am fascinated by your account of the Lomelini's and I too am trying to write a book on the Gonzalez Hermosillo, but like you, it is taking a long
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Dear Alma,
I forgot to add that Martiana was also known as Matiana de Torres. The "de Torres" was from her maternal grandmother, Francisca de Torres. Jerónimo and Martiana baptized a daughter where Martiana used her maternal grandmother's surname as her own.
When baptizing another child she is surnamed "de Hermosillo". I have numerous children for Geronimo and Martiana though I don't know how many total children they had.
//////////////////
Matiana (Martiana) Lomelin y Gonzalez de Hermosillo (Gavilán)
Submitted by R.A.Ricci on Thu, 2016-07-14 22:13.
Dear Alma,
I have her as Matiana (Martiana) Lomelin y Gonzalez de Hermosillo (Gavilán), daughter of Jose Lomelin y Hurtado de Mendoza (bap. 22/Apr/1640) and Michaela Gonzalez de Hermosillo y de Torres
Jose is the son of Domingo Lomellin and Juana Regina de Mendoza
Domingo Lomelin is the son of Carlo (s) Lomelin(i) and Maria Benavides y Cortes.
Michaela Gonzalez de Hermosillo y de Torres is the daughter of Francisco Munoz de Cabeza
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I have seen her being considered a Jewish slave I have not seen her represented as a Muslim "[musulmana convertida al cristianesimo]" Do you have the baptismal document that says she was a Muslim that converted?
I want to make sure my records are correct and proof of their claims. Thank you so much.
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Though we can not assume anything yet regarding the origins of Carlo e Luigi Lomellini -we do not even know how they are related-, here is an article about a member of the Lomellini lineage:
http://www.treccani.it/enciclopedia/leonardo-lomellini_(Dizionario_Biog…
Here is what I consider of genealogical interest:
Leonardo Lomellini born ca. 1510, son of Girolamo di Tobia and Brigida di Pier Francesco Lomellini. His wife was Bianca Grimaldi Oliva di Gerolamo. He had 5 daughters: Faustina, Brigida, Maria, Geronima, Maddalena and only 1 son: Giacomo who died in 1594 leaving no descendants.
The article also mentions his business ventures in Spain. He died ca. 1581.
There is another -the same?- Leonardo Lomellini in New Spain who had a commercial contract with Hernán Cortés in 1542. Perhaps Carlos and Luigi are related.
The article also mentions his patrimony valued at 18.750 lires and compares it to the greater patrimony of two other Lomellini: Bartolomeo Lomellini and Augusto
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It is true that Vassallo di Lumello is considered the origin of the Lomellini family. This is because Vasallo Lomellini 's descendants were the first to be surnamed Lomellini. Often when someone is considered the origin of a family it is because the line stops there but that is not the case here. Vassallo Lomellini' s father is well documented. Vassallo Lomellini was an illegitimate son of Rejnerius Vassallo. his mothers name is the one that I cannot find. Rejnerius Vassallo is the son of Auberto II di Vassalllo 3rd signore di Lavigno.
There does not seem to be much interaction between Auberto II other sons and grandchildren with Vassallo Lumello. . Auberto II Vassallo's other sons and grandchildren lived and left many descendants in Milan while Vassallo di Lumello's family lived and left descendants in Genoa. Auberto II Vassallo is the son of Vasallo Vasallo (many of descendants took his name)
Auberto II Vassallo 's ancestors are well documented for many generations. This
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To Leon de Tejada
You stated that we cannot assume anything in regards to Carlo Lomellini and Luis Lomellini. We are not just guessing. We are gathering facts and looking for all the data that will guide us to the identities of Carlo and Luis(Luciano ) Lomellini. You are contributing to this search. You are right in guessing that they may be related. This Leonardo Lomellini that you mention is the son of Girolamo Lomellini and Brigida Lomellini.
This Leonardo Lomellini is a first cousin to our Carlo Lomellini's father, Vincenzo Lomellini.
Vincenzo's father Giacomo Lomellini and Girolamo Lomellini are brothers, sons of Tobia Lomellini and Giorgietta Gentile.
Right now We do not know if the two Leonardo Lomellinis are the same person. There was another Leonardo Lomellini married to Maria Lomellini, daughter of Marco Lomellini Lomellini This Leonardo Lomellini is the son of Pier Francesco Lomellini (son of Giuliano Lomellini and Brigida Lomellini) and Maria Lomellini (daughter of
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The two possible Leonardo Lomellini are both alive during the same time period and both related to Pier Francesco Lomellini, one his son and the other is his grandson through Pietros daughter. At least One of these two Leonardo Lomellini is a trade merchant that provided black slaves to new Spain(Mexico). The Leonardo Lomellini ( son of Girolamo Lomellini and Brigida Lomellini - daughter of Pietro Francseco Lomellini) that is the grandson is the one that is positively identified as a merchant having residence in Castilla so he is the most likely Leonardo Lomellini that provided the slaves to the new world. He is also Vicenzo's first cousin ( the Vicenzo Lomellini that is father to Carlo Lomellini (1)). This Leonardo also had daughters and only one son (that did not leave descendants) and that would explain the continuation or transfer of this business to his nephew who later tried to monopolize this business. This was a different nephew, not Carlo Lomelin.
The Leonardo Lomellini that
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I finally found a Luigi Lomellini in the 15th century but he was born to early and can't be our Luis Lomelin that goes to Nueva Espana.
The little bits of information that I do find point to Luciano Lomeli Spinola (1) being Luis Lomelin
1. Vassallo da Lumello, Consul de Genoa
2. Ansaldo Lomellini
3 Simone Lumbello (Lomellini ) + Giulia
4. Pietrino Lumbello (Lomellini ) + Tomasina
5. Leonello Lomellini + Catarina
6. Napoleone Lomellini + Teodora di Negro di Giorgio. [these are also Carlo's ancestors] they are 4th cousins
7. Goffredo Lomellini. [
8. Luciano Lomellini + Pometta Spinola
9. Goffredo Lomellini + 2nd wife Novella Cicala But possibly from 1st wife (I did further research but don't have the info in front of me and I don't recall which one was the mother)
10. Paolo Vincenzo Lomellini + Catarina Spinola
11. Luciano Lomellini Spinola
This Luciano Lomellini 's family is the Lomellini family that is found living in Castilla and is one of the Lomellini branches that is involved in
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Carlos Peredo
To León de Tejada et al
I just found in PARES a few records that I´m almost sure are related to the Lomellinis we are talking about but you can only find them searching for "Comelín"; and precisely, there are one or two records about a Leonardo "Comelin", I think that´s de son of Girolamo di Tobia that you mention in your post.
There´s another interesting record about "El magnífico" Benet Comelín doncel genovés mercader (I think in Barcelona) in a legal battle against another mercader genovés (image not available)
And there are one or two more documents mentioning some "Comelins"
Now, about the same time frame in which Carlo and Luis Lomelín lived in New Spain, there were some others with the same last name, does any one of you have some info about them?
I mean, for instance, there´s a Giovani Lomelín mmarrying 25-oct-1592 María Ramos, could he be the same Juan Carlos Lomelín that married María Cortés Benavides about 1609 ?
There´s Josepe Sánchez Lomelín who
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Carlos Peredo
I post here a line concerning one of those Comelinis I told you about in my last post.
"
13. Procura atorgada pels notaris de Tarragona Nicolau Rossell i Agustí Frexa a favor de Gaspar Spinola i Giovanni Comelino, mercaders genovesos residents a Barcelona (1542-08-21)"
As you can see, it involves two Genovese merchants living in Barcelona.
Would you agree with me that they made a mistake and that the last name in reality was Lomelín ?
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I do not recall seeing Comelino seeing in any business deal with the Lomellini or Spinola but I might have overlooked it thinking that it was a graphical error. I agree with you that it is probably a mistake but we now must be on the lookout to see if this name comes up again. The Lomellini had many business deals with the other prominent families from Genoa that concerned interests outside of Genoa and in Barcelona, Castile, Aragon, Portugal, and Corsica. The Lomellini had multpple business interests throughout the Mediterranean.
If Comelino is not a graphical error than maybe it could be a variation of Lomellino in Basque.
You brought up a question regarding Maria Ramos and her husband Lomellini. At one time, Jaime Holcombe wrote that Carlo Lomelin and this man were the same person. We need to see if we can find his notes and see why he made this conclusion. Jaime Holcombe would include notes detailing his sources throughout most of his immense genealogical work but he did not
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To Leon de Tejada
Your post on Leonardo Lomellini and a business contract, along with a lead from Steven Hernandez, and information already in my possession, led me to go back and research an associate of Marco Lomellini y Lomellini. This has led to an interesting discovery that will finally lead to a completed and published book before the end of the summer. I am in the process of getting a copyright with an outline naming the chapters content and the first half of the chapters already written. I have all the information to complete the book. Once I get word from the publisher, I will provide details as to its content and availability.
Thank you
R A Ricci
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To Leon de Tejada
Your post on Leonardo Lomellini and a business contract, along with a lead from Steven Hernandez, and information already in my possession, led me to go back and research an associate of Marco Lomellini y Lomellini. This has led to an interesting discovery that will finally lead to a completed and published book before the end of the summer. I am in the process of getting a copyright with an outline naming the chapters content and the first half of the chapters already written. I have all the information to complete the book. Once I get word from the publisher, I will provide details as to its content and availability.
Thank you
R A Ricci
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It came to my attention two years ago that the Lomelín who in reality are the Lomelini family were one of the 7 principal houses of Genoa. I remember once, even a good colleague, D. Mariano González Leal reported certain documents that existed, but I am no professional in the italian language. I have found some using google books and other sources. Look up "Lomelini" in the search engine under books, you will find lots of genealogical related items in italian especially in the middle ages. One thing is certain our ancestors Carlo Lomelini and Luigi Lomelini were natives of Genoa and arrived in New Spain. Carlo settled in Nochistlán and I believe if I recall correctly Luigi made his way to Hidalgo. I hope this helps in some way. There truly is so much yet to be discovered about our ancestors and lineages. Documents to be read, analyzed, transcripted, published, preserved, etc.
Daniel Méndez de Torres Camino
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I descend from both Carlos and Luis Lomellini Most Lomeli in Los altos descend from just Carlos. Miguel hidalgo also descends from both Carlos and Luis.
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Lomellini (o Lomellino)
Buon giorno a tutti,
Lomellini (o Lomellino). - Famiglia genovese, di origine forse lombarda, la cui potenza mercantile ed economica risale al sec. 12º (il capostipite, Vassallo, fu console del comune nel 1137); si affermò per l'attività bancaria nel sec. 14º e poi per la redditizia pesca del corallo, avendo ottenuto dalla Spagna l'esclusività per l'isola di Tabarca, perduta solo nel 1741, quando l'isola passò in possesso del bey di Tunisi. Tra i membri più notevoli di questa famiglia, che dette a Genova ben sette dogi (Giambattista, 1533-34; Giannotto, 1571-72; Giacomo, 1625-26; Giambattista, 1646-47; Stefano, 1752; Agostino, 1760-61; Giuseppe, 1777-78), si ricordano: Leonello (v.); Angelo, autore di una importante relazione sulla caduta di Costantinopoli (1453); Benedetto (1517-79), cardinale; Goffredo, ecclesiastico e attivo rappresentante della Repubblica genovese a Roma, come appare dal suo carteggio (1559-99); Giovanni Girolamo (m. 1659), altro cardinale
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La famiglia Lomellini di Genova
Efectivamente, los Lomelín de Nochistlán eran originalmente la famiglia Lomellini di Genova, una de las siete familias más nobles y principales de la República de Génova, familia que ejerció el oficio de “Doge di la Repubblica”, como decir el Presidente, en múltiples ocasiones. Los Lomellini originalmente provinieron de La Lomellina “una regione storico-geografica, sita nella zona sud-occidentale della Lombardia compresa tra: il Sesia a ovest, il Po a ovest e a sud, il Ticino a est e il Basso Novarese a nord.”
Presentemente hay Lomellini en Italia, España, Portugal, México, Brasil, y en otros lugares, pero bajo varios rubros diferentes: Lomellini, Lomellino, Lomellina, Lomelín, Lomelí, etc.
Para poder remontar la genealogía antigua de esta familia, va a ser necesario, saber y leer los documentos originales en italiano. Como yo domino el idioma italiano, puedo leer y hacer búsquedas específicas sobres sus personajes, biografías, hazañas
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Carlos Peredo
Hello All
I just came across a text that may lead to surprising genealogical news. It´s in the Book "Sevilla y sus mercaderes a fines de la Edad Media"
By Enrique Otte
I saw three paragraphs that may lead to well known families of "Los Altos", Aguascalientes,Zacatecas, etc.; here they are :
"...el 15-may-1506 Álvaro de Valladolid, Bernardo Grimaldi y Andrés de Carrión dieron poder a su compañero Bernardino de Isla para cobrar “de los señores del cabildo y regimiento de Sevilla….en 25-may-1506 el consejo firmó como siempre ante notario un asiento con Francesco Doria en nombre de Giuliano Lomellino por 2,000 cargas (de trigo) ...atuaron por parte de la ciudad …… los veinticuatros Alonso de Jaén de Roelas, Luis Méndez de Sotomayor y Pedro Suárez de Castilla, y el ... en la nao vasca Santiago, del maestre Martín Romo, 199 cargas"
Now, beginning with Bernardino de Isla and Andrés Carrión, I remeber in "Andariegos y Pobladores: Nueva España y Nueva Galicia" a brother of
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Algo sobre Battista Lomellini, Doge di la Repubblica di Genova, para que vean además las armas de los Lomellini.
http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battista_Lomellini
Steven Francisco Hernández López
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En mis datos sobre los apellidos de Génova aparecen los apellidos Isola y Lavezzari. Parece que estos apellidos italianos luego fueron hispanizados con las ortografías de Isla (en italiano, Isola significa Isla) y Lavezares (porque en italiano, palabras que terminan en –i son plurales masculinas). Creo que estas familias distintas estaban ya vinculadas por ser genovesas y en el ámbito español se unieron. Ya en México por eso tan seguido aparece el apellido Isola como Isla o de Isla así nomás.
Solo una sugerencia para considerar.
Steven Francisco Hernández López
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Gracias portan interesante libro es genial también en estos documentos hablan de los Fregosi Fregoso o como Campofregoso y los Grimaldi que tenia entendido estaban emparentados pero solo pensé que era un mito o leyenda romántica .ahora y gracias a ustedes pues la duda podría despejarse claro que con la ayuda de un traductor hasta pronto.
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Hello Steve,
I took a look at the book that you mentioned "Genealogie delle famiglie nobili di Genova" written by Natale Battliana.
This book has a lot of information on the Lomellini family, just like you said it would. If you take a look at page 192, [ page 16 of the Lomellini chapter], you will find the Carlo Lomellini, son of Vincenzo Lomellini and Porzia, that Is possibly our ancestor, Carlos Lomellini. This page even corroborates the information that identifies Porzia as a slave and Vincenzo's wife {schiava, poi moglie}. The information identifying Porzia as HIS slave, prior to their marriage, is found in her baptismal record that is not part of this book.
Thanks for all the informative posts. They have provided valuable resources to my research.
I do not know if you remember me. I met you and Mike Guttierrez many, many years ago. That day that we met was supposed to be the day that I gave up genealogy. My intention was to share my information of over 20 generations with other
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Yeah I definitely remember you...It was the Orange Family History Center if memory serves me right. You had data on Toribio Hernandez de Arellano & Isabel Hurtado de Mendoza and a whole lot more. But I, like you also, have had my ups and downs, and ins and outs with genealogy. Sometimes this passion has to cede its place to other more pressing concerns of life, as with me over the past...oh say 3 years. But I too am rebounding and making a come back.
But in regards to our Lomelin/Lomelllini ancestry, when I downloaded the book "Genealogie delle famiglie nobili di Genova" written by Natale Battilana [download at http://books.google.com/books?id=wdA7AQAAMAAJ&pg=PR4&lpg=PR4&dq=Genealo…], and opened the PDF file I located the entire Lomellini chapter from page 479 to pg
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Hello and you're welcome of course Rick.
My last message was directed to you upon recalling when we had met...that WAS you! Was it Orange or L.A.? It has been a while. I bet we have both been working on some BIG projects haven't we? I read you are putting together a book...can't wait to read it. As for me...I have several in the works, and I still need to find more documents and time to put it all together. Like our Lomellini lineage.
Steven Francisco Hernández López
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I am organizing various source documents I have located regarding Carlo Lomellini and his connection to Genoa, and the noble Lomellini family, their ventures throughout the Mediterranean, and their roles as Dogi della Repubblica di Genova, and translating and transcribing Italian records so I can share them with Nuestros Ranchos. Please look for them in a new thread I will start elsewhere en Español.
Gracias por tus preguntas e interés. Muchas cosas nuevas van a salir a la luz sobre varios apellidos genoveses como Lomellini, Fregoso, Doria, Spinola/Espínola, Bocanegra, Lavezzari, Isola, y muchos más, en los historiales y archivos de Génova, España y México.
Steven Francisco Hernández López
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Muchísimas gracias Paco, es muy amable de tu parte.I can't wait.
Sofia
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A long time ago I worked on the family tree of Miguel Hidalgo. I found out that he descended from both Carlo Lomellini and Luis Lomellini. Through many sources I heard that Carlos and Luis were brothers. I would go on searching for their ancestors because I descend from Carlo Lomellini many times. I was concerned with Luis only as in how he would help me find the parents of my ancestor, Carlo, his so called brother.
The more I worked on this line, the more it became apparent that a long time ago historians and genealogist had stated that they were brothers and that this assumption had been handed down. Are they brothers? If they are not brother's, what could have contributed to them thinking that they were brothers? I believe that I have the answers to both questions. The third question I have is where did people get the date of birth, 1584 for Carlo Lomellini? I believe I have an answer to that question also. actually Steven Hernandez was the one that provided the answer to
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Hi Steve,
It was Orange County. Mike Gutierrez invited me to your meeting. Does this group still meet? I would like to get list of the people that I met at that meeting? Is there someone I can contact for information?
Rick A Ricci
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Hello Steve,
Nice to hear from you. I really like the manner in which you presented the information on the birthplace of the lomellinis. I really liked the way you distinguished between Genoa and the republic of Genoa. Many historians and genealogists forget that the difference between the two is similar to Mexico D.F. And Mexico the country though the republic of Genoa was not nearly as big as Mexico. I have been guilty of this myself. Many different languages were spoken in what we now consider Italy. There were different languages spoken, like Spanish and tabarchino, in parts of the republic of Genoa. Italy was a bunch of city-states, they were separate kingdoms like Aragon, Pamplona, Leon, Castile in Spain before coming together. The republic of Genoa included communities outside the city of Genoa.
Getting my information was a long story in itself that would fill a book. A lot of the documents are from a private library and are not from a book. The major citation is my
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To Steve
You are correct that we need to continue investigating the archives in the Sagrarios of Guadalajara, Valladolid, and Mexico City. However, I think that it is important to point out that the Valladolid Lomeli descend from Luis Lomeli and not Carlos. I believe that the Lomeli married to Pedro Villasenor Orosco and Francisco Villasenor in Valladolid descend from Luis Lomeli and Maria Olmos. Please let me know if your information differs from mine.
R A Ricci
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Carlos Peredo
Rick
According to El Padre Ibarrola Luis Lomelín y su esposa María del Olmo fueron vecinos de Jiquilpan, Mich y su hija María casó con Juan de Villaseñor Patiño y ellos fueron los padres de Pedro Villaseñor Lomelín, el cual casó con Inés Fernández del Rincón; quienes tubieron a Juan Miguel de Villaseñor Lomelín, que casó con Elena Cortés Enríquez de Silva y esta última pareja fueron los padres de Joaquina de Villaseñor Cortés Lomelín, la que casó con su pariente Juan Gallaga Mandarte Lomelín y tubieron a Ana María Mandarte Villaseñor la mamá de MIGUEL HIDALGO Y COSTILLA.
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That line is an interesting line that I have had the pleasure to research. But Hidalgos line doesn't connect to the masses in Los Altos. The line that I am most interested in confirming is Maria Lomelin Orosco descent from Luis Lomelin. This Maria Lomelin Orosco is the ancestor of many families in Los Altos de Jalisco. She is the wife of Francisco Villasenor. Is this Maria the daughter of juan Villasenor Orosco Patino and His wife Maria Lomelin?
From my what I have compiled on Hidalgo's line
"D. Juan de Viilasenor y Patino, bautizado en el Sarario de la Catedral de Valladolid el 12 de Julio de 1598
Padrinos: sus tios D. Francisco y Da. Beatriz Patino"
Fue due no de la hacienda la Lagunilla y condueno de la de Pomacuaro
Fue casado y velado segun el orden de la Santa Iglesia con
Dona Maria Lomelin y del Olmos
Originaria de Queretaro, hija legitima deli luster genoves D. Luis de Lomelin y de Maria del Olmo, personas de mucha distincion y nobleza y posedoras de various bienes de
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Dear Mr. Ricci
I found record of a marriage of Dona Juana Patino Villasenor to Juan Vergara (?) Lisalde. Diego Ysla Heredia was a testigo and also noted as escribano publico for Valladolid.
The record is from 1628 Valladolid. Here is the link:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-5T9P-5C?i=263&wc=3NYJ-YWL%…
Familysearch Mexico, michoacan, morelia, sagrario metro matrimonios1623-42 image 264.
Juan Vergara Lisalde was not present, but was represented by another man.
Since you mentioned Juan Villasenor Patino, thought you might be interested. If you know how Juan and Juana are related, please post. And if you know of any connection to Juana de Heredia Patino (wife of cristobal sotelo moctezuma), or her heir, Lorenzo Patino de Vargas, please post.
Regards
Denise Fastrup
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So far, I have found four mistakes in the Lomellini section of the book "Genealogie delle famiglie nobili di Genova" written by Natale Battilana
This book is an extremely valuable resource and these four mistakes seemed to have been made by misreading some documents and then placing a daughters name as the spouse or the father in laws name instead of the real spouses name. The good thing about Battiana's book is that the names can be cross referenced with other documents to get it correct.
There are also many omissions. Battilana's book is an incredible resource but any researcher relying solely on this book is making a big mistake. An example of an omission would be that Napoleone Lomellini had a wife before Teodora and at least three of the children are from her. Another example is that Marco Lomellini also had children from two women, one his wife and I am not sure if he was legally married to the other woman who was Portuguese and gave him two sons.
R.A.Ricci
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Carlo Lomellini Spinola