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Genealogy Research

Hello,

I have recently discovered that I descend from a Benito de Isla whose many descendants spread throughout Nochistlan. I hit the brick wall there, and I do not know who Benito’s wife was. Normally I would assume that the traceable ancestry ends there. However, I have spotted miscellaneously placed postings that allude to a specific ancestry for Benito de Isla and his unnamed wife when they are all placed together. Unfortunately I have been unable to pinpoint the sources for most of these postings – this is where I need help.

But to start with:

PART 1: What is Provable:

From the primary sources that I have been able to access and see with my own eyes, I have mapped out the following:

Benito de Isla was the father of Magdalena de Lavezaris (wife of Francisco Gonzalez) and Maria de Isla y Moctezuma (wife of Capitan Andres Martinez de Sotomayor). This same Benito de Isla also had a natural mestiza daughter named Maria de Isla.

There is another Maria de Isla who was married to Christobal Martinez Lozano and had a family in Aguascalientes. This Maria de Isla (wife of Christobal Martinez Lozano) had a sister named Petronila de Isla.

PART 2: What I suspect (Part A): The Maria de Isla’s:

I think that the Maria de Isla (the mestiza) is possibly one and the same with the Maria de Isla who was married to Christobal Martinez Lozano. However, I have not seen this Maria de Isla (wife of Christobal Martinez Lozano) ever mentioned as anything but “espanol;” the same goes for her children. Then again I have seen many examples within these Mexican colonial records were people who are more accurately and originally described as mixed race, appear later in life described as “espanol”. If these two Maria de Isla’s are the same person then Benito de Isla is also the father of Petronila de Isla.

I do not think the Maria de Isla (wife of Chritobal Martinez Lozano) is the same person as Maria de Isla y Moctezuma (wife of Capitan Andres Martinez de Sotomayor). There seem to be too many children born to both of these women to be same one.

Does anyone have any opinions on this?

PART 2: What I suspect (Part B): The Lavezaris Connection:

Since Benito de Isla had a daughter who used the name Magdalena de Lavezaris. That name must have come from somewhere further back. I think that Benito de Isla is the son of a Bernardino de Isla and another Magdalena de Lavezaris who was the sister of Guido de Lavezaris, Governor-General of the Philippines.

Does anyone have any opinions on this?

PART 2: What I suspect (Part C): The Moctezuma Connection:

Since Benito de Isla had a daughter who used the name Maria de Isla y Moctezuma. That name must have come from somewhere further back. I suspect the connection was matrilineal but have never seen a wife listed for Benito de Isla from my own research. (Benito de Isla possibly being the father of Petronila de Isla also comes into play here.)

I have spotted a few interesting postings that allude to Benito de Isla’s wife. However, they are un-sourced postings, I have been unable to make contact with the people who posted them, and have not been able to pinpoint any primary sources for the following:

From other’s Postings:

1. I have seen a forum (here at Nuestros Ranchos) where a Petronila de Isla is described as being the daughter of a Benito de Isla and a Juana Navarro. I have been unable to contact the person who posted this. Does anyone know where this information comes from?

2. I have seen a tree on Ancestry.com where Benito de Isla is married to a Juana Navarro. Here Juana Navarro dies 28 Dec 1651 in Teocaltiche. The death records in Teocaltiche do not go back that far. Does anyone know where this information comes from?

3. In another tree on Ancestry.com, Benito de Isla is married to a Juana “Navarro y Moctezuma.” Wonderful, if her name actually appears this way, but does anyone know where this information comes from?

4. I have seen forums of the couple Martin de Gabay Navarro and Petronila de Moctezuma as having 4 children: Ana-Francisca, Maria, Christobal, and JUANA. Ana-Francisca, Maria, and Christobal are provable children via various dispensas. But where does the information of this couple also having a daughter named Juana come from? Does anyone know?

PART 3 Conclusions?:

All of this starts to lean in a certain direction. Let us assume that, outside of what is provable, what I suspect is true and what others have posted is also true; that all that is needed is to pinpoint a few more sources. Then the following is a possible reconstruction of the whole picture:

Benito de Isla (son of Bernardino de Isla and Magdalena de Lavezaris) married a Juana Navarro (daughter of Martin de Gabay Navarro and Petronila de Moctezuma) and had as daughters Magdalena de Lavezaris (named after her paternal grandmother), Maria de Isla y Moctezuma (partially named after her maternal grandmother), Petronila de Isla (also partially named after her maternal grandmother), with the additional Maria de Isla (the Mestiza daughter born from another woman).

Chronologically it fits, though a little tight on Petronila de Moctezuma’s side if we assume she was born about 1552, allegedly had the said Juana by 1572, Juana having Magdalena de Lavezaris and Maria de Isla y Moctezuma by the time she was age 15 c. 1587, and both Madalena and Maria also starting to have children by about age 15, since most of their traceable children have their earliest estimated birth years in the late 1600’s early 1610’s. Keep in mind that 15 is a typical age for young girls to marry in this time period.

I would appreciate any opinions, corrections, or primary sources on these matters which may prove or refute the possible reconstruction of this tree.

Regards,

David

Comentario

Buenos dias David,

Just a small comment about the colonial records, regarding your sentence:

"I have seen many examples within these Mexican colonial records were people who are more accurately and originally described as mixed race, appear later in life described as “español”".

Probably you already know but it might be interesting for the rest of the community NR, in the colonial Mexico the "castas" were defined according to the origins of the parents and it was possible to consider a mixed race as "español" after the third generation.

If an "español" married an "india" the children are "mestizos", if a "mestizo" maried an "español" the children were "castizos". If a castizo married an "español", the children were considered "españoles".

That is why some of them appear later in life as "español".

A complete clasification of the "castas" can be found in;

https://www.significados.com/castas-de-la-nueva-espana/

Regards

Jorge

Comentario

To my knowledge the only source of this info is JH Letters "Juana Navarro, wife of Benito de Isla, was buried in Teocaltiche on 28 Dec 1651. The albaceas of her will were Antonio de Ruvalcaba and Miguel Martínez de Alarcón, vecinos de Teocaltiche. This information was extracted from an unmicrofilmed death record in Teocaltiche." But there is no transcription of what was in the record and no information on who this Benito de Isla was.

Comentario

I just noticed that the scribe who penned Isabel de Moctezuma’s will in 1550 was a Diego de Isla. I wonder if he is related to our Benito de Isla. If so, this would show that there has been an affiliation between the “Islas” and the “Moctezumas” from as early as 1550 and might explain why one of Benito’s daughters born by about 1600 used the name “Maria de Isla y Moctezuma.”

What still needs to be determined is who from the Moctezuma clan married over to the Isla clan for Benito’s daughter to use the name “Moctezuma”?

Comentario

Denise,

I noticed an archival post of yours regarding the Sotelo Moctezuma where
you posted the defunción of doña Francisca Sotelo and her testamento before
the juéz público, Diego de Isla Heredia. Perhaps, there's a connection
between the judge Diego de Isla Heredia and the royal scribe Diego de Isla.

doña Francisca Sotelo:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18758-5851-92?cc=1883388&wc=…

Original post:
http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/21898#comment-26369

Paige

Comentario

Hi Paige
Thanks for bringing this to my attention. The two Diegos are about eighty years apart, so the latter Diego could be a grandson of the former...only way to find out is to do sone digging Family Search! I am leaving soon on vacation to a place with no internet, so it will be a while before i can post anything on this, unless i find something tonight. Incidentally, a son (or was it grandson?)of Diego Arias sotelo and leonor valderrama moctezuma married a woman with the name Heredia. See more info on this in Moctezuma's Children.

Regards
Denise

Comentario

4 Other Thoughts:

1. Elvira de Islas and Maria de la Concepcion de Islas are provable sisters to each other as per the following dispensa:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18409-48327-39

Benito de Isla came alone and single to Mexico. If Elvira and Maria de la Concepcion were his sisters, then perhaps they came at a later date. However, Elvira and Maria de Concepcion being sisters to our Benito de Isla creates odd trucking issues which should have required dispenas, but as of yet we have not seen evidence for this. Until this evidence surfaces, we may have to assume that Elvira and Maria de la Concepcion may be related to our Benito de Isla in some other way (aunts, daughters, nieces, cousins?). Benito, Evlira and Maria de la Concepcion being cousins or cousins once removed seems to avoid the consanguinity that would require a dispensa.

If a dispensa exits for the marriage of Diego Delgadillo and Petrona de Isla, and if it can be found, it might reveal more.

2. Holcombe

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Comentario

Another piece of the puzzle for the family of Benito de Isla appears in this dispensa that can be viewed in 2 places:

1. Here:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18411-52641-81?cc=1874591&wc…

2. And Here:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18417-19400-14?cc=1874591&wc…

Holcombe also adds some details to this family in his letters pages 76 and 171.:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/6invajbk0zzo4jm/Letters%20Edited%20for%20Dist…

For clarity, below is the tree of the dispensa with the additional details of Holcombe in brackets [ ].

Trunk … presumably Benito de Isla

Gonzalo Gomez...................1.......Maria de Isla
[m. c. 1628 Agustina Martin]............m. [Andres Martin de Sotomayor]

Antonio Gomez Garcia............2.......Margarita de Sotomayor
m. [Francisca Florez.d.l.Torre].........m. [N.N. de Leon]

Maria Blanca Gomez..............3

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Comentario

David,

I don't know if this helps but theres a wikitree for Petrona de Isla and
Diego Delgadillo. IT has her parents and has 1 of his parents. It looks
like 1 of his parents is Maria De La Conception de Islas, I don't know if
that's the same person mentioned or how accurate the tree
information is. There's also a book mentioned at the bottom the authors
name is Hilton, but, I don't have the book so I don't know what it says
about them. The wikitree is here... http://www.wikitree.com/wiki/De_Islas-19

Danny C. Alonso

Comentario

Danny,
The wikitree sited belongs to a member of NR and is quite well researched. The book referenced at the bottom is Sagrada Mitra de Guadalajara Antiguo Obispado de la Nueva Galicia by Maria de la Luz Montejano Hilton. Here is the passage you're referring to:

Nochistlán. Zac. Diciembre 17 de 1716. Exp. 22 - Dispensa de tercero con cuarto grado de consanguinidad - Joseph González Lozano, español de 20 años de edad. vecino y natural de esta feligresía de Nochistlán, hijo legitimo de Bernardo González, español difunto vecino que fué de esta feligresía, y de Josepha Lozano, que vive: con María Díaz Montañez, española, doncella de 16 años de edad, hija legítima de Nicolás Díaz Montañez, español difunto, y de María Flores de Sandi, española vecina de esta feligresía. Declaración del pretenso: Mi madre y Petronila de Islas, bisabuela de María Díaz, fueron primas hermanas, hijas de dos hermanas que es segundo grado, y Mariana de Sandoval, abuela de la susodicha sobrina de mi madre en

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Comentario

Chris,

In your reference to the passage dated December 17, 1716 I noticed the names
Joseph Gonzalez Lozano and Maria Flores de Sandi. In researching my
ancestors in Nueva Galicia, I found a record dated September 17, 1752 that
records that baptism of Juana Maria Lozano Dias. The baptism was performed
in Teocaltiche and the parents are Juan Miguel Lozano (my ancestor) and
Lorenza Dias de Sandi. I was curious to know if you had seen any
relationships after 1716 between these two families. Thank you in advance
for any information you can provide.

Regards, Bob Lozano

Comentario

Hi Bob,
Unfortunately, I'm not familiar with the particular families mentioned in the dispensa or the specific couple Juan Miguel Lozano and Lorenza Diaz de Sandi. I just posted the information from Sagrada Mitra de Guadalajara that was in question. I do have some Lozanos in my tree, but, most of them are in the 17th century. The most recent Lozano I have is my 8th Great Grandmother, Juana Manuela Lozano de Gardea that married Bartolome Joseph Martel, but, I do not know her parents or have any information beyond her. I also descend from Isabel Lozano de Gardea, my 12th Great Grandmother, the daughter of Cristóbal Lozano and Maríana González de Gardea.  Beyond that, I don't think I really have anything that will be of any help.

Chris

Comentario

Hi Danny C. Alonso,

In answer to your questions, "Are the people on line 1, brother and sister and then the people in line 2 are 1st Cousins and then the people in line 3 are second cousins or is it read differently?"

The answer is, yes: "1" would be siblings, "2" are 1st cousins, "3" is 2nd cousins etc.

As many of the communities where our ancestors lived were isolated, the "marriage pools" were limited to the few families that lived in any given area. As a consequence, after 3 or 4 generations, everyone in town is your 2nd- or 3rd- cousin. To prevent inbreeding, the Church would "monitor" these couplings, and try to prevent them; recognizing that they couldn't, they would issue dispensations to those couples who qualified (this is a simplified explanation).

The Church used a system of degrees ("grados," in Spanish), to establish the severity of the consanguinity (related by blood) or affinity (related by marriage or an iilicit relationship) between a given couple:

Siblings: 1o

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Comentario

Thank you Manny for the information and the dispensations links, I finally
understand how to read them. I have a question about this tree here. On
Josefa Diaz under her it says m. N.N. does that mean she wasn't married
when she had Angela Diaz

Andres Martin de Sotomayor......1.......Ysabel Martin
m. Maria de Isla y Moctezuma............m. Juan Diaz de la Huerta

Andres Martin Camacho...........2.......Josefa Diaz
m. Beatriz de Mayorga...................m. N.N.

Andres Martin de Sotomayor......3.......Angela Diaz
........................................m. Isidro Villalobos

................................4.......Juana Cayatana de Villalobos

Danny C. Alonso

Comentario

N.N. means they do not know the name of the spouse or person with whom they
had children.

N.N. - nomen nescio [Latin], name unknown
N.N. - non nominatus / non nominata' [Latin], not named

On Tue, Jun 9, 2015 at 11:53 PM, Danny Alonso wrote:

> Thank you Manny for the information and the dispensations links, I finally
> understand how to read them. I have a question about this tree here. On
> Josefa Diaz under her it says m. N.N. does that mean she wasn't married
> when she had Angela Diaz
>
> Andres Martin de Sotomayor......1.......Ysabel Martin
> m. Maria de Isla y Moctezuma............m. Juan Diaz de la Huerta
>
> Andres Martin Camacho...........2.......Josefa Diaz
> m. Beatriz de Mayorga...................m. N.N.
>
> Andres Martin de Sotomayor......3.......Angela Diaz
> ........................................m. Isidro Villalobos
>
> ................................4.......Juana Cayatana de Villalobos
>
> Danny C. Alonso

Comentario

Thank you Armando. Is there a reason they wouldn't name Josefa Diaz husband
or did they leave him out because he wasn't important to the tree? I have
some ancestors with the same names in the tree (villalobos & Sotomayor) and
am just trying to save everyone with the same names in case I find I'm
connected to them.

Danny C. Alonso

Comentario

Always go to the source whenever there is a question about the data
extracted from a dispensa. There is no tree in the dispensa which means
that the tree was made by Jaime Holcombe based on what was written in the
document which says "*Isabel Marín y Andrés Martín fueron hermanos y la
dicha Isabel fue madre de Josefa Díaz y esta lo fue de Ángela Díaz quien lo
es de dicha Juana Cayetana......dicho Andrés Martín fue padre de Andrés
Martín y este lo es del pretenso*"

The father of Ángela Díaz was not named since he is not needed to determine
how the two people are related which is all they needed in order to be
granted the dispensa. The dispensa is indexed at
http://www.guadalajaradispensas.com/2011/12/1687-1749-1828-fhl-source-f…
and the dispensa starts at
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18403-64936-14

On Wed, Jun 10, 2015 at 1:11 AM, Danny Alonso wrote:

> Thank you Armando. Is there a reason they wouldn't name Josefa Diaz husband
> or did they leave him

Read full comment ➜

Comentario

I have another question about this tree. Now that I understand how to read
them I wantd to know if any of these Andres Martin de Sotomayors are the
same as my Ancestor Andres Martin de Sotomayor married to Lucia Chaves or
where on the tree this Andres martin de Sotomayor fits in

Andres Martin de Sotomayor......1.......Ysabel Martin
m. Maria de Isla y Moctezuma............m. Juan Diaz de la Huerta

Andres Martin Camacho...........2.......Josefa Diaz
m. Beatriz de Mayorga...................m. N.N.

Andres Martin de Sotomayor......3.......Angela Diaz
........................................m. Isidro Villalobos

................................4.......Juana Cayatana de Villalobos

Danny C. Alonso

Comentario

Hi Danny,

Your Andrés Martín de Sotomayor and the Andrés Martín de Sotomayor that's married to Juana Cayetana de Villalobos are both grandchildren of Andrés Martín de Sotomayor and María de Isla y Moctezuma.

Andrés Martín de Sotomayor that's married to Juana Cayetana de Villalobos is the son of Andrés Martín de Sotomayor and Beatriz de Mayorga. Your Andres Martín de Sotomayor that's married to Lucia de Chávez is the son of Nicolás Martín de Sotomayor and Simona López de la Cerda, my 9th great grandparents.

Andrés Martín de Sotomayor and María de Isla y Moctezuma

Andres Martín de Sotomayor...................1..................Nicolás Martín de Sotomayor
m. Beatriz de Mayorga................................................m. Simona López de la Cerda

Andres Martín de Sotomayor...................2.................Andres Martín de Sotomayor
m. Juana Cayetana de Villalobos................................m. Lucia de Chávez

Chris

Comentario

Hi Danny,

Andrés Martín de Sotomayor and Lucía de Chávez were married in Aguascalientes on 8 Oct 1688. https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-12446-30313-70?cc=1502404&…

The marriage record proves Lucía de Chávez is the daughter Diego de Chávez Fragoso and Antonia de Villalobos and Andrés Martín de Sotomayor is the son of Nicolás Martín de Sotomayor and Simona López de la Cerda.

Nicolás Martín de Sotomayor and Simona López de la Cerda were married in Teocaltiche on 17 Sep 1667. https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-19053-3386-35?cc=1874591

Simona López de la Cerda was the daughter of Agustín López de la Cerda and Lucía Rodríguez and Nicolás Martín de Sotomayor is the son of Andrés Martín de Sotomayor and María de Isla y Moctezuma.

Agustín López de la Cerda and Lucía Rodríguez were married in San Luis Potosi on 13 Nov 1635. https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1942-20439-1732-39?cc=1860864

Agustín López de la Cerda is the son of Francisco López

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Comentario

Hi Danny,
I'm not sure why Catalina de Victoria's parents are the only ones named. But, if you look at the marriage record, it says that Antonio Rodríguez was not in attendance at his wedding but was represented by Juan Diaz Ynfante. Maybe, because he wasn't there the scribe didn't record his parents names.
    
"En las casas de la morada de Hernando Diaz Yn-     
fante desta ciudad de Pazquaro, primero dia del mes de     
Junio de mill y seyscientos y un años, yo Juan Perez Poca-     
sangre, beneficiado della, despose y case por palabras de     
presente a Antonio Rodriguez, ausente, por persona de     
Juan Diaz Ynfante, con licencia que para ello traxo     
del provisor deste obispado, con Catalina de Vitoria,     
hija de Hernando Diaz Ynfante y de Juliana de Vitoria,     
vezinos desta dicha ciudad de Pazquaro, siendo testigos     
Hernando Parga y Francisco ? y Fernando Orhua,     
vezinos desta dicha ciudad.     

Juan Perez Pocasangre"

Chris

Comentario

Chris,

Coincidentally, I am researching a couple in San Luis Potosi/Armadillo de los Infante who are contemporary with your Francisco Lopez and Francisca de los Angeles.

They are Domingo de Castro and Maria de los Angeles. “De los Angeles” appears to be a surname among their descendants, not an added tack-on to a personal name. Therefore I suspect that Maria de los Angeles and Francisca de los Angeles might be sisters.

Do you have any evidence that could support this? For example, do a Domingo de Castro or Maria de los Angeles appear as padrinos anywhere among the descendants of Francisco Lopez and Francisca de los Angeles?

Please let me know if they do,

Regards,

David

Comentario

Hi David,
I actually haven't started researching this couple yet. Bill Figueroa mentions them here in relation to the Lopez de la Cerda: http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/20380?page=1  but, beyond that, I don't really have anything. The marriage of Agustín López de la Cerda and Lucía Rodríguez de Victoria says that Francisco López and Francisca de los Angeles are vecinos de Zacatecas, but, that's it. If I come across any mention of Domingo de Castro or María de los Angeles, I'll let you know. 
Chris

Comentario

I wanted to clarify some things about the reason for the dispensas. The rules for marrying a relative started in the 11th century in Europe and I believe the rules still exist. My 5th great-grandfather from Vizcaya, País Vasco had to get a dispensa to marry his 2nd cousin. There likely weren't very many people in his region that he could marry that weren't related to him. This is probably the case in many parts of Europe. I have read about people doing genealogy and DNA testing in the British Isles and Ireland coming to the same conclusion. However, it was probably more common in Jalisco, Aguascalientes, and Zacatecas since the españoles wanted to maintain their status for themselves and their children and they had fewer people to choose a partner from. Many of the people in the dispensas mention that they want to marry someone from the same class but they can't find anyone that isn't related. So the marriage pool was even more limited due to the class limitation.

Comentario

Manny,

Thank’s for the Ynes Gonzalez Martinez information. She is new to my files.

Armando,

Holcombe’s letters has road mapped to some new information. I will be posting this later.

Regards to all,

David

Comentario

Danny and Emilie,

You got lucky. Ysabel Lozano Gardea exists in my files. This is how you fit in:

Capitan Juan Lozano m. Ynes Martinez Baca y Gonzalez

Christobal Martinez Lozano (I) m. Maria de Isla

Christobal Martinez Lozano (II) m. Mariana Gonzalez/Perez de Gardea

Isabel Lozano y Perez de Gardea m. Diego de Villalpando

Mariana de Villalpando m. Antonio de Trillo

Maria de San Juan Belasco de Trillo m. Nicolas Garcia

I recommend looking up Isabel Lozano y Perez’s will dated 20 Oct 1702 in Aguascalientes

Go to: http://sigue.aguascalientes.gob.mx/axweb/login.aspx
User name: sigue.publica
Password: publica

Click on: SGG-ARCHIVO-HISTORICO - ACERVOS COLONIALES SIGLOS XVII A XIX
Where it says: CONTRATANTES Type: “Isabel Lozano y Perez” (without parenthesis)
Click the “Submit” button

Notes:

1. Ysabel Lozano y Perez de Gardea’s mother is named as “Mariana Lozano de Gardea.” The “Lozano” should be “Gonzalez” or “Perez.” This is an error by whoever wrote the will.

2. Mariana de

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Comentario

On Christobal Martinez Lozano (I) & Francisco Gonzalez as Brothers.

Jaime Holcombe Isunza stated “A probable other son of Juan Lozano and Inés Martínez was Francisco González Martínez.” As seen on page 8 of:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/6invajbk0zzo4jm/Letters%20Edited%20for%20Dist…

I had actually reached the same conclusion, within my own work. I had not mentioned it when I started this forum thread to maintain focus, but since it has come up, I will present it here. I feel that Christobal Martinez Lozano(I) and Francisco Gonzalez (husband of Magdalena de Lavezaris) were brothers for the following reasons:

1.)
Diego de Aguayo (son of Antonio de Aguayo and Elvira Gonzalez de Isla) and Gertrudis Lozano (daughter of Joseph Lozano and Petronila de Retamosa Mecias Valades Gonzalez de Gardea Tresalva) were married 12 Jan 1696 in Aguascalientes. They were related in the 4th degree, so this marriage required a dispensation which can be found here

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Comentario

Thanks for that information.

It wasn't clear from your post if you understand that the surname Mecias doesn't exist in Aguascalientes, Jalisco, or Zacatecas. The surname is Macias. Tresalba is not a surname either. It is a classification which means three quarters white. It comes from the term for horses with three white hooves.

Comentario

Ha! Nicely done, David!

I had those dispensas and even that testamento in my tree, but hadn’t gotten around to researching them and connecting the dots; I just read the Marcos Gonzalez Hidalgo testamento, and it does say his cuñados are Bernardino and Diego Gonzalez de Yslas. This establishes a notarized link between the Gonzalez de Yslas and the surname “Lozano.” !GOL!

I also had Joseph Lozano, hijo natural of Cristobal Lozano de Yslas, in my tree, but I didn’t have his wife’s name. As it turns out, I had him and his wife in my tree, but from the marriage of another of their sons; once I merged the 2 Joseph Lozano’s, and placed Juana Gonzalez Lozano where she belongs, the tree came together nicely. It’s a workable template, we just need to find more documentation to support/refute it.

We also have to keep in mind that Maria de Yslas (m. Cristobal Lozano) might still be a daughter of Benito de la Ysla, in which case, the parentesco on the Diego Aguayo/Gertrudis Lozano dispensa

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Comentario

While being thorough, I have spotted a conflict among Holcombe’s letters regarding my theories about the parentage of Francisco Gonzalez (husband of Magdalena de Lavezaris).

Holcombe’s letters as they appear here:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/6invajbk0zzo4jm/Letters%20Edited%20for%20Dist…

On page 113 says:

“Bernardino’s parents come next on the Tree. Francisco González Martínez and Magdalena de Labesares. He came from Matabuena, Obispado de Segovia, in Spain, a son of Pedro Martínez and María González. Two brothers married in Aguascalientes.” This conflicts with what Holcombe says in his notes pg 8: “A probable other son of Juan Lozano and Inés Martínez was Francisco González Martínez.”

However, just because it appears in Holcombe’s letters does not mean it should be taken as the Alpha and Omega. I have spotted other minor errors in Holcombe’s letters unrelated to the topics in this forum. As such, Holcombe’s letters should invite new themes

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Comentario

Hola primos,

SEGOVIA & JAIME’S “CARTAS”

David, the Segovia origin for Francisco Gonzalez Martinez came to mind, after I left my last post, and I thought about editing it in, but I was in a rush and figured someone else would mention it. I’m glad you mentioned it.

Regarding Holcombe’s “Cartas,” I had a similar conversation with another NR member, and we agreed, that though we think they’re indispensable for this work, one still needs to verify. I feel the same way about all published works. Plus, every once in a while, a document comes along that changes everything we thought we knew about someone. Case in point: the Gonzalez de Hermosillo of Los Altos, coming over from Guadalcanal, instead of descending from the conquistador in DF.

“Lozano” and “Ynes Martinez Baca” appearing in the Gonzalez de Isla line still makes the possibility worth looking into, that Francisco Gonzalez Martinez descends from that line. I’m researching every “Ynes” descendant, 3-4 generations, to see if the

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There have been errors in what Jaime Holcombe Isunza has deduced. It has happened more than once proven by records he hadn't known about out or skipped over for whatever reason. He did all of his work before the Internet and through the Archivo General de la Nación, and not LDS, as well as going to the churches themselves. All genealogists have made mistakes. I still haven't found a genealogist that hasn't made one. The primary records should always be searched for.

The reason I had brought up Jaime's letters is because they are what so many people base their information on, including the trees at Ancestry.com mentioned in the original post of this thread, and he does include information about primary records that weren't microfilmed. So at times the letters provide clues to primary records that need to be searched for elsewhere such as "Juana Navarro, wife of Benito de Isla, was buried in Teocaltiche on 28 Dec 1651. The albaceas of her will were Antonio de Ruvalcaba and Miguel

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Well said, Armando. I consider Jaime's work an extremely useful roadmap, and indispensable, as I said.

This isn't a perfect science: besides losts or damaged documents, poor caligraphy and inconsistant orthography, there's the foggy memories of old testigos.

Quick question, and somewhat related to this thread: which Catalina Cortes is this?

Cathalina Cortes, cofrada del Santisimo Sacramento: Catalina Cortes, Espanola, died in Mexticacan 07 May 1652. Left no testament, but she did a memoria "before the judge, in which she declared a quantity of pesos owed her, and ordered some masses said. Buried in said church with open casket & vigil. Right image bottom:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-15206-417-37?cc=1804458&wc=M…

The wives of Juan de Sandoval and Mateo de Rubalcava died at later dates; could this be the wife of Geronimo de Benavides? She'd be around 100 years-old, according to my estimate.

Manny Diez Hermosillo

Comentario

Hello Manny,

You listed Eugenia de Perea as the wife of guide de Lavesaris, El Viejo. In the same time frame, there was a printer /editor by the name of Lorenzo Perea that may be her father. He is listed along with Eugenia's husband, Guido De Lavesares, as a "librero de Sevilla."

Rick A Ricci

Comentario

Hi Alex,

The defunción of Maria de Islas says:

En dieciocho de junio de mil seiscientos sesenta y siete enterré en la parroquial de esta villa [Aguascalientes] a doña María de Isla mujer que fue de Andrés Martin, vecinos de esta villa. Confeso y estando para llevar le el viático pidieron solo el santo óleo por haberle dado un parasismo con cual lo recibió y la absolví por la Bula y de allí a media hora murió. Y por que conste lo firmé.

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-6S67-DJR

Chris

Comentario

Hi Paige,

It should be "la absolví por la Bula [de la Santa Cruzada]. If you've searched records in Nueva Galicia you've probably come across it before. I've seen it on several of my ancestors. Here's a link: https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bula_de_la_Santa_Cruzada

It appears that it was a papal bull that originally offered privileges and graces and indulgences to Spaniards that participated or supported the church against Muslims and heretics and later for works of charity and such.

Chris

Comentario

Chris,

So how does one know this Maria de Isla is the sister of Magdalena de Lavezaris, wife of Francisco Gonzalez?

I'm just curious what evidence there is as to who her husband was. The only primary source I have confirming this Maria as the sister of Magdalena Lavezaris is the Joseph Diaz de Leon and Maria Catalina de Islas dispensa:

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-X4SG-P?i=191&wc=SS2Q-S…

This dispensa shows she had a daughter named Jacinta Martinez but does not name a husband. This of course provides some evidence of her marrying a Martin or Martinez.

Comentario

Hi Alex,

That relevant part of the dispensa that establishes a María de Isla as sibling to Magdalena de Labesares says: doña María de Islas tuvo por hija a Jacinta Martínez y Jacinta Martínez tuvo por hijo a Jacinto Díaz y Jacinto Díaz tuvo por hijo a José Díaz de León, pretenso.

Jacinta Martinez who actually went by the name Jacinta de Sotomayor is the known daughter of Andres Martin de Sotomayor and María de Isla. The above dispensa is proven correct where her marriage to Juan Diaz de Leon states:

Juan Díaz de León vecino de esta minas de sierra de Pinos hijo legítimo de Juan Díaz de León y de Francisca de Ortega, vecinos de esta Real digo que quiero contraer matrimonio segun orden de la santa madre iglesia de Roma con Jacinta de Sotomayor, hija legítima de Andrés Martín y de María de Islas...

Jacinto Díaz was the known son of Jacinta de Sotomayor and Juan Díaz de León and married Sebastiana Gil and they were the known parents of Jose Díaz de León based on his marriage that

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Chris,

Thank you for the information. This is exactly what I was looking for and is the confirmation which I didn't have! Im glad to be on the same page as everyone else.

Thanks again
Alex

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Question 1
Recap of known information: Guido Lavesaris La Besares, Labeçares (LVBS-84T) was married to Ines Alvares de Gibraleon vuida that was accused of Hechicera (Sorceress) by her maid and had been married to Francisco Rodriguez de Çacatula Has anyone found the name of the First Wife of Guido that was killed by Indians?
El padre fray Nicolas de Witte escribe al emperador don Carlos una carta de recomendación para el desafortunado explorador: Nueva España. Lavezaris. Al Emperador. Fr. Nicolas de Witte = Mexico 15 de julio 1552. Suplica favorezca a Guido de Lavezaris el qual sirvio i gasto mas que otro ninguno en la jornada que armodon Antonio de Mendoza...el año 42 para las islas de Poniente trayendo mui gran razon de esas partes i de la navegacion dellas. Perdio su hacienda en aquella jornada i los indios le quitaron a su mujer.
Paragraph found in the following book
Guido de Lavezares
Relación del sucesso de la venida del tirano chino sobre este campo y de las demás cosas

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I thought it was confirmed. But we need Mary Lou Montagna to answer this. The information came from an unindexed microfilm in the letters of Jaime Holcombe where it gives Juana Navarro's burial in Teocaltiche on 28 Dec 1651. And names the albaceas of her will as Antonio de Ruvalcaba and Miguel Martínez de Alarcón, vecinos de Teocaltiche.

Danny

Comentario

Hola primos,

In my posts from 28 May 2015 and 31 May 2015, to support the argument that Francisco Gonzalez Martinez (cc Magdalena de Lavezaris) was the son of Juan Lozano and Ines Martinez Vaca y Gonzalez, I mentioned how his granddaughter, Ines de Islas (daughter of Bernardino de Islas and Mariana de Sandoval, and wife of Cristobal Mexia), appeared with the name “Ynez Martinez Baca” in the baptism record of her son, Bernardino Mexia. I have located another record on which she is given that same name, this one regarding land titles, so it was her legitimate name. These are titles and instruments for lands belonging to Matheo de Rubalcava, as the husband of Cecilia Vasquez de Yslas, and to her sister, Ynes Martinez Baca, widow of Cristobal Mexia.
Of interest, is the first land title, for a “sitio de ganado menor con dos caballerias de tierra” near the pueblo of Mexticacan, that their father, Bernardino de Yslas, had purchased from Geronimo Gonzalez de Aramburu and Elvira de Carvajal in

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Hello Nuestros Ranchos Forum,

I've been really following this post with a lot of interest since I
recently traced myself to Antonio Trillo and Mariana Villalpando and on
their marriage it says Mariana Villalpando is the daughter of Ysabel Lozano
Gardea and so I'm really interested in posts about the Lozano's and
learning where Ysabel Lozano Gardea fits in. I don't know much about these
families and don't have much to contribute, but, I located this document
recently looking up information on Nueva Galicia and I noticed it mentions
Magdelena Lavezares.

http://www.casadelarchivo.gob.mx/sigloxvi/ANDARIEGOS_Y_POBLADORES.pdf

Danny C. Alonso

Comentario

Hello, Danny,

My husband's 5th great-grandmother is Maria de San Juan Belasco Trillo. Her parents were Antonio Trillo and Mariana Villalpando. Maria married Nicolas Garcia, and my husband's name is Antonio Carlos Garcia. Thanks for the new info.

Emilie
Port Orchard, WA

> Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2015 00:53:34 -0700
> From: dcalonso97@gmail.com
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Christobal Martinez Lozano (I) & Francisco Gonzalez as Brothers
>
> Hello Nuestros Ranchos Forum,
>
> I've been really following this post with a lot of interest since I
> recently traced myself to Antonio Trillo and Mariana Villalpando and on
> their marriage it says Mariana Villalpando is the daughter of Ysabel Lozano
> Gardea and so I'm really interested in posts about the Lozano's and
> learning where Ysabel Lozano Gardea fits in. I don't know much about these
> families and don't have much to contribute, but, I located this document
> recently looking up information on

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Danny,

Can you send me a copy of the marriage of Antonio Trillo and Mariana Villalpando, please? They are my husband's ancestors (his 6th great=grandparents).

Thanks,

Emilie
Port Orchard, WA

> Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2015 00:53:34 -0700
> From: dcalonso97@gmail.com
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Christobal Martinez Lozano (I) & Francisco Gonzalez as Brothers
>
> Hello Nuestros Ranchos Forum,
>
> I've been really following this post with a lot of interest since I
> recently traced myself to Antonio Trillo and Mariana Villalpando and on
> their marriage it says Mariana Villalpando is the daughter of Ysabel Lozano
> Gardea and so I'm really interested in posts about the Lozano's and
> learning where Ysabel Lozano Gardea fits in. I don't know much about these
> families and don't have much to contribute, but, I located this document
> recently looking up information on Nueva Galicia and I noticed it mentions
> Magdelena Lavezares.
>
> http://www

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David,
now that I know where Ysabel Lozano Gardea fits in I'm even more excited. I
didn't realize I was actually connected to this same Lozano in the subject.
I'm trying to now piece everything together and am curious on the dropbox
letter where it says

“Bernardino’s parents come next on the Tree. Francisco González Martínez
and Magdalena de Labesares. He came from Matabuena, Obispado de Segovia, in
Spain, a son of Pedro Martínez and María González. Two brothers married in
Aguascalientes.” This conflicts with what Holcombe says in his notes pg 8:
“A probable other son of Juan Lozano and Inés Martínez was Francisco
González Martínez.”

Does that mean Bernardino is from Obispado de Segovia, Spain and the son of
Pedro Martinez and Maria Gonzalez or do they mean Francisco Gonzales
Martinez is?

Also did someone answer the question about the where the family group
letters were.

ps Emilie, here is the marriage for Mariana Villalpando

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-12446

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Danny,
I still have the link to the Family Group Sheets but they appear to no longer be available to the general public. I believe if you're a member of the LDS Church or have a membership with affiliated organizations you probably can access the records as they're still online, but only available to members. A regular Family Search sign on won't work, but, here is the link if you can find someone with an account:

https://familysearch.org/search/collection/2060211
Christopher de Cuellar
 

Comentario

I finally took some time to figure out how to find the information on the Family Group Sheets by Jaime Holcombe Isunza. They are part of Patron ordinance submission sheets, 1969-1991 https://familysearch.org/search/catalog/319732?availability=Family%20Hi…

The families can be searched at https://familysearch.org/search/collection/igi

So if you search for Cristobal Lozano then you will see a tree for Cristobal Lozano and Maria Isla at https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/2:1:M3BQ-HF1 and at the top right it says Submitted 6/12/2012 by jholcombe50905 and on the left it says Batch Number 8676301

Searching for 8676301 show it to be in film 1396287 and if you click on it you can put in an order for the film to be sent to the local Family History Center. You don't have to be a member of LDS to be able to do that.

The family of Martín Pérez de Gardea and Mariana González de Ruvalcaba (maternal grandparents of Mariana Gonzalez/Perez de Gardea alias Mariana de Bermejo) is at

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David,

Here is what I have -

There were letters between Jaime Holcombe Isunza and Mary Lou Montagna that a lot of what is known or deduced comes from. Mary Lou would go to Mexico and visit the churches to see the documents herself. Mary Lou compiled information from the letters and their findings. This the following is some of what is found in the compilation of the letters.

The Benito de la Isla y Labesares, from Seville, who came in 1557 as a servant to whom was undoubtedly a relative, is my ancestor all right, but one generation before. Because there are documents on the other Benito’s two sisters, living in Nochistlán. The one that came from Spain came alone and single. So how do two sisters suddenly turn up? No way. The following fits in generationwise:

Benito de la Isla y Labesares married N.N.

1. María de la Concepción de Islas, married Juan Delgadillo, a son of Diego Delgadillo and Isabel Calderón.
2. Elvira de Islas, married Joseph González.
3. Benito

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Maria de Isla (wife of Christobal Martinez Lozano) is definitely not the same person as Maria de Isla y Moctezuma (wife of Capitan Andres Martinez de Sotomayor). It's not because there seem to be too many children born to both of these women to be same one. It's because the dates that Christobal Martinez Lozano and María González de Isla had children was in early 1600 based on the marriage dates of those children and Christobal Martinez Lozano was buried 13 Mayo 1646 https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-11773-145304-59

Andrés Martín de Sotomayor and María González de Islas y Moctezuma were married prior to 22 Sep 1626 when their son Nicolás was baptized. https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-11824-53079-10

Therefore, it is impossible for Maria de Isla (wife of Christobal Martinez Lozano) to have been the same person as Maria de Isla y Moctezuma (wife of Capitan Andres Martinez de Sotomayor).

As far as the parents of those two Marías -

Maria de Isla (wife of

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Hola primos,

All of this is very interesting. The 2 Benito de Isla's/ father & son, might explain a lot. I descend from all of these lines. Here's my 2 cents:

First of all, here's the IM for Pedro Rodriguez and Petrona de Islas-Ribera:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-15188-23673-32?cc=1804458&wc…

MARIA DE ISLAS Y MOCTEZUMA

Maria de Islas y Moctezuma, wife of Andres Martin de Sotomayor, was a sister of Magdalena de Lavezares, wife of Francisco Gonzalez Martinez, as established in this dispensa for Joseph Diaz de Leon-Gil and Catarina Gonzalez de Islas-Delgadillo (01 Nov 1709 Nochistlan):
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18427-2483-11?cc=1874591&wc=…

This would make her a daughter of Benito de la Isla and N.N. I've seen that Holcoombe has Cristobal Lozano's wife as a daughter, as well, but I can't find the source.

MARIA CONCEPCION DE ISLAS & ELVIRA DE ISLAS

I have to question the Maria Concepcion de Islas/ Elvira de Islas

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Hola primo,

MARIA DE ISLAS Y MOCTEZUMA

Excellent work. Christopher Cuellar has also found the dispensa of Joseph Diaz de Leon-Gil and Catarina Gonzalez de Islas-Delgadillo but I wouldn't have noticed if you hadn't pointed it out. - http://www.wikitree.com/wiki/D%C3%ADaz_de_Le%C3%B3n-18

MARIA CONCEPCION DE ISLAS & ELVIRA DE ISLAS

Steven Francisco Hernández López has María de la Concepción de Islas married to Juan Delgadillo Calderón the son of Diego Delgadillo and Isabel de Calderón

I don't think that the Juan Delgadillo that married Elvira Martínez de Alarcón y González de Ruvalcaba is the same Juan Delgadillo that married María de la Concepción de Islas and if not there isn't an issue.

Elvira de Islas and María de la Concepción de Islas were sisters per the following dispensa of Onofre José Herrera & Manuela González- https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18409-48327-39

FRANCISCO GONZALEZ MARTINEZ

I'll look into this more once I have time.

Comentario

​​Hola primos,

I'd like to get an idea of the timelines that these Islas women lived in, let's compare notes. Here's my take:

MARIA CONCEPCION DE ISLA: In my lines, I have Juan Delgadillo, son of Diego Delgadillo and Ysabel Calderon, and married to Maria Concepcion de Islas. I believe this is him, a testigo on the IM for Juan de Estrada and Margarita de Ortega, 17 Mar 1659; he signs his name “Jhoan Delgadillo” and gives his age as “50, poco mas o menos,” left image:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18564-63010-41?cc=1874591&wc…

That places his birth during the first decade of the 1600’s. Naturally, one could assume that his wife, Maria Concepcion de Islas, was born around the same time.

I have this union with 3 children; from the births and marriages of their children, I have these 3 born between 1629 and 1639:

a. Leonor de Bellocillo, m. Juan Morones
b. Diego Delgadillo, b. 1631, m1. Petronila de Islas, m2 Ysabel de Aguayo (in 1704

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Manny,

I did receive the email. Thank you for providing me with the letters. From what I have looked that it has the same information from the document I linked in my first post of the thread. That document is at https://www.dropbox.com/s/6invajbk0zzo4jm/Letters%20Edited%20for%20Dist…

What I am also hoping to find are the family group sheets that Jaime Holcombe submitted to the LDS. I uploaded some examples to https://www.dropbox.com/sh/1gmvyck444nzewr/AABwy6Jqc998ouaZG4_wDatNa?dl…

These family group sheets have a lot of info on them and some of that info might not be in the letters.

The group sheets can be ordered from LDS but a there have been times I have ordered sheets and the people at LDS can't find them. The sheets don't show up in the searches anymore either or I just don't know how to search for them since site changed several years ago. I think that at the church they can be searched for.

Saludos

Comentario

Hi Armando,

Thanks, I was unaware that the charts existed. There's a family center not far from my home - some day I need to make a visit!

Saludos,
Manny Diez Hermosillo

Comentario

Hi David

Very interesting theory! I wish i had info for you, but the Isla line is not one i have ever researched. However, it would be good to get straight, the children of Petronila and Martin. You have found a reference in the forum to 3 daughters and 1 son. I seem to recall a post that named 2 daughters and 2 sons. I just did some searches for that post but cannot find it, so maybe i remember wrong. Could you post the link to the one you found? I am currently going through records from mex city in the late 1550s, if i see the isla name i will post here.

Regards
Denise Fastrup

Comentario

Denise,

The forum that has a Petronila de Isla as the daughter of a Benito de Isla and a Juana Navarro appears here:

<>

The forum that has 3 daughters and 1 son for Martin de Gabay Navarro and Petronila de Moctezuma appears here:

<>

(Keep in mind that Ana-Francisca, Maria, and Christobal are provable siblings. the alleged Juana is the one that needs to be solidified.)

If you find anything please let me know. Even the smallest new confirmable detail can create a clearer picture in genealogy research.

Regards,

David

Comentario

I don't think I fully understand how these trees work. Are the people on
line 1, brother and sister and then the people in line 2 are 1st Cousins
and then the people in line 3 are second cousins or is it read differently?

Andres Martin de Sotomayor......1.......Ysabel Martin
m. Maria de Isla y Moctezuma............m. Juan Diaz de la Huerta

Andres Martin Camacho...........2.......Josefa Diaz
m. Beatriz de Mayorga...................m. N.N.

Andres Martin de Sotomayor......3.......Angela Diaz
........................................m. Isidro Villalobos

................................4.......Juana Cayatana de Villalobos

Danny C. Alonso