Comentario
Hi Prima,
I am curious about your brother's DNA - what was he able to learn. In lieu of our possible connection, I would be extremely curious....If you look at Gary Felix's chart, I am related to Homero Villarreal several times over (surnames include Villarreal, Bermea, Trevino) from both my paternal grandparents!
From my limited understanding about Jewish culture, it seems that there was a definite separation of the three "tribes", generally kept that way by the use of their last names and religious customs. Because of this and the relatively slow migration patterns that occured in early history, there appears to be a definite correlation between certain Jewish sects, in their DNA. I could be mistaken.......The way it was explained to me by several Jewish friends: a Cohnan can only marry another proven Cohnan though the paternal line. This is the "highest sect", but according to my friends, they feel it is a way to subjugate the other "tribes". All other sects were allowed to inter-marry with each other, or even a woman was allowed to marry outside their ancestry, as it has generally been accepted that "Judaism" can be passed by the mother - this, in part, is believed to have occurred when religious and cultural persecution could not determine by their absolute means the paternal Jewish link.
As you know, the northern part of Mexico
I can't prove it yet, but my instincts tell me that from the Zacatecas side of the family, there is African blood - the history documents asserts their presence (as does my kinky hair ? just kidding Victor, well - sort of) particularly during the "high" economic rape of the Zacetano silver mines, where profits went straight to Spain or the Catholic Church. You do bring up an important question - how can the DNA project claim where in Africa our possible ancestors originate from? My trip in Africa confirmed that the time of slavery was a great unrest for the indigenous people who had remained stable for so long prior to the 300 years of constant unrest during slavery. Even the "adrinka" Ghanaian symbols were obviously affected by the gold and salt trade with the northern Berbers, and this was during a time of economic prosperity! One would have to perform many "free" DNA projects to make assertions about a particular area in Africa and the descendents.
I did giggle with your question regarding DNA and Moses & Aaron. But you are right about the movement of families, particularly during times of economic, warfare, political and religious struggles. It is, after-all the reason why most of us are in the United States
For now, because of this wonderful forum, I know that you and I are definately related. It would be even nicer to know that we are related several times over, as was the discovery with Homero.
By the way Victor, are you related to any of the Villarreal's in the Felix's study?
La Prima....Esperanza
-----Original Message-----
From: Santos Luna <mistyriver123@...>
To: ranchos@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 18:25:57 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: [ranchos] re Family Tree DNA Project
I was very excited when I read about the DNA Project, and offered to pay for the testing, using my brother's DNA. My brother has done some research on his own, and has not been given any conclusive answers.
In the scenario below...
1. Who's DNA did they use to prove a connection to "Cohanim"?
2. Where did they get the DNA for Moses & Aaron?
3. For the African ancestor where did they get that DNA? There are 51 countries in the Continent of Africa. From Morocco to South Africa...and the islands. Were samples taken from individuals from most of these countries?
As a side note, from an Egyptologist, the current Egyptians are not of the line that actually build the pyramids. But, that is another topic. The point is, that the people's of the world have always been mobile.
Gosh, I hate to sound like the devils advocate, but would hope that this folks are not giving us un "Gato por Oso.
Emilie, perhaps, Mr. Greenspan can offer some positive insight.
Santos Luna
Emilie Garcia <auntyemfaustus@...> wrote:
Joseph,
That is so interesting about the DNA Project.
I have talked with Mr. Greenspan (via e-mail), president of the Family Tree DNA project, several times. He is very nice. He says to e-mail him any time. He is a professor at the University of Arizona. I had seen a story about a Hispanic priest in Albuquerque who now wears both a cross and a Star of David, since the DNA project showed not only that he was of Jewish heritage, but of the highest order, the Cohanim, direct descendants of Moses and his brother Aaron. Mr. Greenspan said that he started the project for Jews to find out what Jewish groups they belong to (where in the hierarchy they fit). The highest is the Cohanim [priest], then there is the Levite [temple servant], everybody else is Ysraelite.
I have heard many stories that many of our early 15th century Spanish ancestors in Mexico were Sephardic Jews and Moors. We are not related too much to the people that live in Spain now. So Joseph, you are not really descended from an African slave, but maybe from someone with Moorish or Arab blood. The Moors were the powers in Spain only until shortly before the ancestors of the current Spaniards had kicked them and the Jews and Arabs out. A Spanish friend from the Basque country told me she was proud not to be "hija de moro ni de indio". (She can't help it- the Basques are very proud).
I knew that my father's surname OLAGUE is Basque, because he told me so. They were fair, with blue eyes. People in Mexico have told us that all Olagues descend from one Miguel Olague who together with his brothers went with the conquistador Don Juan de Onate to New Mexico in 1598. They returned to Zacatecas shortly. My maternal ancestors, the MARQUEZ, did stay and colonize New Mexico. They were all Espanol until my great-great grandfather's time. Somehow a Piro Indian got in the family, thus he was dark, and on my mother's side the females look Indian (go figure).
In Gary Felix' website I read this: "It is widely believed that a large percentage of the earliest settlers of Mexico may have origins in the Middle East and were a result of the expulsion of non-Christians out of Spain, just befoe the conquest of Mexico" I believe this, since when we first saw pictures of Saddam Hussein, we yelled out "He looks just like Uncle Jess [my father's first cousin Jesus, whose mother looked very Moorish or Arab]!
The project has Garzas [Garcias] with family lines in Northern Mexico [Jalisco?]. My husband was told in Mexico that he looked like a typical Norteno---quite tall and fair--a Tapatio--- and his Garcia-Cervantes line is from Encarnacion de Diaz in Jalisco.
Gotta go---thunderstorm above--don't want to fry this computer.
Emilie Garcia
Port Orchard, WA
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I was very excited when I read about the DNA Project, and offered to pay for the testing, using my brother's DNA. My brother has done some research on his own, and has not been given any conclusive answers.
In the scenario below...
1. Who's DNA did they use to prove a connection to "Cohanim"?
2. Where did they get the DNA for Moses & Aaron?
3. For the African ancestor where did they get that DNA? There are 51 countries in the Continent of Africa. From Morocco to South Africa...and the islands. Were samples taken from individuals from most of these countries?
As a side note, from an Egyptologist, the current Egyptians are not of the line that actually build the pyramids. But, that is another topic. The point is, that the people's of the world have always been mobile.
Gosh, I hate to sound like the devils advocate, but would hope that this folks are not giving us un "Gato por Oso.
Emilie, perhaps, Mr. Greenspan can offer some positive insight.
Santos Luna
Emilie Garcia <auntyemfaustus@...> wrote:
Joseph,
That is so interesting about the DNA Project.
I have talked with Mr. Greenspan (via e-mail), president of the Family Tree DNA project, several times. He is very nice. He says to e-mail him any time. He is a professor at the University of Arizona. I had seen a story about a Hispanic priest in Albuquerque who now wears both a cross and a Star of David, since the DNA project showed not only that he was of Jewish heritage, but of the highest order, the Cohanim, direct descendants of Moses and his brother Aaron. Mr. Greenspan said that he started the project for Jews to find out what Jewish groups they belong to (where in the hierarchy they fit). The highest is the Cohanim [priest], then there is the Levite [temple servant], everybody else is Ysraelite.
I have heard many stories that many of our early 15th century Spanish ancestors in Mexico were Sephardic Jews and Moors. We are not related too much to the people that live in Spain now. So Joseph, you are not really descended from an African slave, but maybe from someone with Moorish or Arab blood. The Moors were the powers in Spain only until shortly before the ancestors of the current Spaniards had kicked them and the Jews and Arabs out. A Spanish friend from the Basque country told me she was proud not to be "hija de moro ni de indio". (She can't help it- the Basques are very proud).
I knew that my father's surname OLAGUE is Basque, because he told me so. They were fair, with blue eyes. People in Mexico have told us that all Olagues descend from one Miguel Olague who together with his brothers went with the conquistador Don Juan de Onate to New Mexico in 1598. They returned to Zacatecas shortly. My maternal ancestors, the MARQUEZ, did stay and colonize New Mexico. They were all Espanol until my great-great grandfather's time. Somehow a Piro Indian got in the family, thus he was dark, and on my mother's side the females look Indian (go figure).
In Gary Felix' website I read this: "It is widely believed that a large percentage of the earliest settlers of Mexico may have origins in the Middle East and were a result of the expulsion of non-Christians out of Spain, just befoe the conquest of Mexico" I believe this, since when we first saw pictures of Saddam Hussein, we yelled out "He looks just like Uncle Jess [my father's first cousin Jesus, whose mother looked very Moorish or Arab]!
The project has Garzas [Garcias] with family lines in Northern Mexico [Jalisco?]. My husband was told in Mexico that he looked like a typical Norteno---quite tall and fair--a Tapatio--- and his Garcia-Cervantes line is from Encarnacion de Diaz in Jalisco.
Gotta go---thunderstorm above--don't want to fry this computer.
Emilie Garcia
Port Orchard, WA
Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
Discover Yahoo!
Get on-the-go sports scores, stock quotes, news & more. Check it out!
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