Hi, Irma, Yes, my "friend" is the product of a Catholic girl's school in Pamplona. So that tells you something. Her brothers, who unlike girls in Spain at the time, received higher educations and are engineers, etc. and are more worldly, have gone to school and worked in Mexico. She has never been there, yet when my husband would break out into a popular Mexican song, she started to sing along with him. When I asked her how she knew the song, she said that Mexican songs and movies have always been very popular in Spain. Her husband, who is a Mestizo, and whose father, like mine, was also born in Jerez, Zac. is as prejudiced as she. More so, I think, since she married him even though he was from a different race and country. He probably wanted to married up; she really married down. (She gave up a prominent social position in Spain to marry an American serviceman--maybe she felt adventurous). He even told me he never wanted to marry a dark-skinned person. Their kids look Latin. He also has gone so far to the political right (spouting Rush Limbaughisms all the time) that we avoid them now because of him as much as we can. We used to invite them to dinner often since he liked my Mexican cooking, about the only Mexican thing he liked, I guess. You are right about the garbanzo beans! She used to cook them all the time in her pressure cooker. She said if you don't use a pressure cooker, they take forever to cook. I don't like them, I prefer pinto beans. She is an excellent cook, and I used to enjoy going over to their house for typically Spanish meals. She uses so much olive oil that I had a problem (if you know what I mean) until I got used to it. Their food is very Mediterranean. Funny thing, she learned how to make tamales for Christmas from her mother-in-law, and as far as I know she still makes them for her family, who like them, since they were raised in California. I was prepared to dislike my Spanish friend at first since at the party where I met her (our husbands were child-hood friends) she made that comment about not being "hija de moro ni de indio", but she grew on me a little. I think she is prejudiced against groups, but not when she gets to know an individual in that group. I admired her sophistication and intelligence. Even without the education her brothers received, she is very capable, and has even gone back to Spain occasionally to help run the family business, where she has a chalet outside Pamplona which is near the village called Olague (my surname). Emilie Garcia Port Orchard, WA.
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Irma, yes, well said. Oh, I forgot to say that my Spanish friend did allude to the fact that when the Moors and Jews were kicked out of Spain, Spain went to pot. When I asked her how so, she said the Jews and Arabs were advanced civilizations who founded the universities in Spain, etc. And a funny thing happened to her (well, she and I thought it funny at the time): we went into a gift shop up here in Bremerton WA once to window shop their Peruvian things, and it was run by an obvious descendant of the Incas. When he heard my friend's fancy Castilian accent, he really lit into her! He started off with "Oh, so you are Espanola. Do you know what your people did to mine?" He proceeded to tell her off royally, listing all the injuries the conquistadores had heaped on his people. She just said simply, "Well, I personally did not do those things", but he kept on and not only suggested that an apology from her people was in order, but that they should make restitution. I guess he thinks the Spaniards should send back all that gold, ha, ha. She did not apologize for her people, did not buy a thing (she wasn't about to give him any of her gold), whereas I (I have a black belt in shopping) dropped almost $100.00 in there. He made me feel so guilty about my Spanish blood, what there is of it. Saludos, Emilie
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Irma,well said. Next time you talk to your spanish friends, ask them to send back all the gold they stole from Mexico (just kidding). Alberto. --- Irma GomezLucero <igomezlucero@...> wrote: > Hi Emilie, > I have been enjoying alll of the recent postings > on racial > classification. Excuse me for now jumping onto the > soapbox. :) I hope > that I don't offend anyone from what I am about to > say. I just don't like > hearing ignorant racist remarks about Indians, > Mexicans, etc., and people > who feel superior to other ethnic groups. Your > Spanish friend sounds like > someone with low self-esteem, (as well as possibly > uneducated) and in that > she feels that she should distance herself from > those that she perceives as > inferior to herself. Heaven help her poor Mexican > American husband that has > to hear such racist comments. > The Spanish I met in Spain when I travelled > there are nothing like those > immigrants from Spain or South America that I have > sometimes encountered > here in the USA. They do not view people from > Mexico like a bunch of > Indians. In fact, they often remarked about > Mexico's riches both in the > Indian Civilizations as well as the gold that their > churches are filled > with. They were very warm people who would comment > on how handsome Pedro > Infante was when they saw him in concert in their > youth. Also how the > foolish Spanish king really screwed up when he > underestimated the strength > in the Mexican people during Mexico's independance. > > Remember to stand tall. Just a side note to > your Spanish friend. > Garbanzos which are a staple for humans in Spain > (they are often served in > Basque dishes) are often fed to livestock in Mexico. > Please educate your > South American friend too by informing her that Taco > Bell is not authentic > Mexican food. I am extremely proud of all my > bloodlines whether it be > India, mestizo, mulata, espanola, etc., > Okay I'll step down now. Thanks for allowing > me to get this off my > chest. > Irma who hails from Northern California > > _____ > > From: Emilie Garcia > [mailto:auntyemfaustus@...] > Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2005 3:41 AM > To: ranchos@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [ranchos] Racial Classifications was > Moorish or Slave > > > Wow, those charts and photos are mind-boggling. I > am really getting an > education. > > The mixing of the races in Mexico has led to a > particular typically Mexican > look, I think. My husband, who looks white (I call > him viejo Gachupin pelon > sordo) calls the typical Mexican the result of the > Mestizaje. Yet no two > Mexicans could look more different than he and I, he > 6 ft, me 5 ft; we could > have been the Espanol and the Indian pictured in the > photos. Yet I can trace > both of our lineages back to the early 1700's in > Mexico. > > My Spanish-Basque friend said that when she met her > Mexican-American > serviceman husband in Pamplona (he looks like me) > she was fascinated by his > appearance. She said she had never seen anyone with > the planes of the face > like mine and his. In profile we have small noses > in line with the chin and > forehead, whereas she and my husband have ! the look > of Europeans, yet > different. He has a large Roman nose with receded > chin and forehead in > profile and he is bald on top yet very hairy arms > and legs. She looks > German. Up here in Washington State in an area > where there are few > Mexicans, I am at times mistaken for Asian or > Filipina. I have a hard time > convincing the Filipinos around here I am not a > Filipina. One man even > asked me why I did not want to admit to being > Filipina! > > An interesting thing too about food preferences > among us: My Spanish-Basque > friend does not like corn tortillas or Mexican food. > She prefers bread and > fish or chicken. She says that corn is only fed to > animals where she comes > from. I heard that also from a lady I knew from > South America. She was > dismayed that her sons were learning to eat "como > Indios" since they liked > Taco Bell tacos and asked her to make some like > their Mexican friends' moms > made! . > > Also, lately, I feel that it is this typical Mexican > look, an Indian > appearance, that makes many Anglo-Americans so > prejudiced against the aliens > coming across from south of the border. They are > being so mean to those > poor people. American employers continue to depend > on alien labor for the > work that many Americans won't stoop to do, and that > is where the problem > lies, not with the poor people looking to improve > their lives. > > I am off my soapbox now, > > Emilie > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: lareina2@... > Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 10:58 PM > To: ranchos@yahoogroups.com > ! > Subject: Re: [ranchos] Racial Classifications was > Moorish or Slave > > There's a folder for it in Ranchos 2. I found a > book that gave a little > background and some pictures. Here's the link, and > definitely blow up the > link of the page of classifications so it's > readable: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ranchos2/files/Racial%20Classification/ > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ranchos2/files/Racial%20Classification/> > > > Rosalinda > > > -----Original Message----- > From: latina1955@... > Sent: Jun 23, 2005 1:32 AM > To: ranchos@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [ranchos] Moorish or Slave > > > > I could be wrong (my memory comes and goes with this > stuff called menopause > - should be called memorypause), but I think coyote > was a term used to > describe the mixed blood of Indians and African. > > There was a chart (perhaps someone can recall it > here?) that described the > various labels placed on the mixture of "races" > during the early part of the > conquest, when race delineation was seen as > important by the Spanish. I'll > keep looking for this chart, but in the meantime, > perhaps someone else on > the board has easy access to it for reference? > > Esperanza > > > _____ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > http:! <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ranchos/> > //groups.yahoo.com/group/ranchos/ > > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > ranchos-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:ranchos-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe> > > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! > Terms of Service > === message truncated === __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
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Hi Emilie, I have been enjoying alll of the recent postings on racial classification. Excuse me for now jumping onto the soapbox. :) I hope that I don't offend anyone from what I am about to say. I just don't like hearing ignorant racist remarks about Indians, Mexicans, etc., and people who feel superior to other ethnic groups. Your Spanish friend sounds like someone with low self-esteem, (as well as possibly uneducated) and in that she feels that she should distance herself from those that she perceives as inferior to herself. Heaven help her poor Mexican American husband that has to hear such racist comments. The Spanish I met in Spain when I travelled there are nothing like those immigrants from Spain or South America that I have sometimes encountered here in the USA. They do not view people from Mexico like a bunch of Indians. In fact, they often remarked about Mexico's riches both in the Indian Civilizations as well as the gold that their churches are filled with. They were very warm people who would comment on how handsome Pedro Infante was when they saw him in concert in their youth. Also how the foolish Spanish king really screwed up when he underestimated the strength in the Mexican people during Mexico's independance. Remember to stand tall. Just a side note to your Spanish friend. Garbanzos which are a staple for humans in Spain (they are often served in Basque dishes) are often fed to livestock in Mexico. Please educate your South American friend too by informing her that Taco Bell is not authentic Mexican food. I am extremely proud of all my bloodlines whether it be India, mestizo, mulata, espanola, etc., Okay I'll step down now. Thanks for allowing me to get this off my chest. Irma who hails from Northern California From: Emilie Garcia [mailto:auntyemfaustus@...] Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2005 3:41 AM To: ranchos@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [ranchos] Racial Classifications was Moorish or Slave Wow, those charts and photos are mind-boggling. I am really getting an education. The mixing of the races in Mexico has led to a particular typically Mexican look, I think. My husband, who looks white (I call him viejo Gachupin pelon sordo) calls the typical Mexican the result of the Mestizaje. Yet no two Mexicans could look more different than he and I, he 6 ft, me 5 ft; we could have been the Espanol and the Indian pictured in the photos. Yet I can trace both of our lineages back to the early 1700's in Mexico. My Spanish-Basque friend said that when she met her Mexican-American serviceman husband in Pamplona (he looks like me) she was fascinated by his appearance. She said she had never seen anyone with the planes of the face like mine and his. In profile we have small noses in line with the chin and forehead, whereas she and my husband have ! the look of Europeans, yet different. He has a large Roman nose with receded chin and forehead in profile and he is bald on top yet very hairy arms and legs. She looks German. Up here in Washington State in an area where there are few Mexicans, I am at times mistaken for Asian or Filipina. I have a hard time convincing the Filipinos around here I am not a Filipina. One man even asked me why I did not want to admit to being Filipina! An interesting thing too about food preferences among us: My Spanish-Basque friend does not like corn tortillas or Mexican food. She prefers bread and fish or chicken. She says that corn is only fed to animals where she comes from. I heard that also from a lady I knew from South America. She was dismayed that her sons were learning to eat "como Indios" since they liked Taco Bell tacos and asked her to make some like their Mexican friends' moms made! . Also, lately, I feel that it is this typical Mexican look, an Indian appearance, that makes many Anglo-Americans so prejudiced against the aliens coming across from south of the border. They are being so mean to those poor people. American employers continue to depend on alien labor for the work that many Americans won't stoop to do, and that is where the problem lies, not with the poor people looking to improve their lives. I am off my soapbox now, Emilie
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http://www.theblacklist.net/Afro-Mexicans.htm
http://faculty.washington.edu/qtaylor/Courses/313_AAW/313_manual_cp_01.htm
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Wow, those charts and photos are mind-boggling. I am really getting an education. The mixing of the races in Mexico has led to a particular typically Mexican look, I think. My husband, who looks white (I call him viejo Gachupin pelon sordo) calls the typical Mexican the result of the Mestizaje. Yet no two Mexicans could look more different than he and I, he 6 ft, me 5 ft; we could have been the Espanol and the Indian pictured in the photos. Yet I can trace both of our lineages back to the early 1700's in Mexico. My Spanish-Basque friend said that when she met her Mexican-American serviceman husband in Pamplona (he looks like me) she was fascinated by his appearance. She said she had never seen anyone with the planes of the face like mine and his. In profile we have small noses in line with the chin and forehead, whereas she and my husband have the look of Europeans, yet different. He has a large Roman nose with receded chin and forehead in profile and he is bald on top yet very hairy arms and legs. She looks German. Up here in Washington State in an area where there are few Mexicans, I am at times mistaken for Asian or Filipina. I have a hard time convincing the Filipinos around here I am not a Filipina. One man even asked me why I did not want to admit to being Filipina! An interesting thing too about food preferences among us: My Spanish-Basque friend does not like corn tortillas or Mexican food. She prefers bread and fish or chicken. She says that corn is only fed to animals where she comes from. I heard that also from a lady I knew from South America. She was dismayed that her sons were learning to eat "como Indios" since they liked Taco Bell tacos and asked her to make some like their Mexican friends' moms made. Also, lately, I feel that it is this typical Mexican look, an Indian appearance, that makes many Anglo-Americans so prejudiced against the aliens coming across from south of the border. They are being so mean to those poor people. American employers continue to depend on alien labor for the work that many Americans won't stoop to do, and that is where the problem lies, not with the poor people looking to improve their lives. I am off my soapbox now, Emilie
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Esperanza, Thanks so much for the information. This really helps me with my research on my mother's side. She was from that 500-year-old gene pool from Juarez-New Mexico. What is that site? Can you e-mail me the link at auntyemfaustus@... ? Thanks, Emilie Garica Port Orchard, WA.
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