Comentario
Please excuse me for the late reply.
The following article I found in "Jerez, Monografia e
Historia, by Ricardo Santoyo Reveles."
Here goes:
La Esclavitud
"El 7 de abril de 1780, llego el reclamon de una de
estas ventas, realizado por Don Pantaleon de le Torre
y Salcedo en poder de la senora Rosa Gomez, viudua de
Eusebio Sanchez Castellanos, quien reclama a su
apoderado el trato de una mulata esclava de nomber
Petra, la que obtuvo por su difunto marido, y que
nacio en su casa durante su matrimonio; julio de 1760,
se trato a Don Pedro Calderon, asentista de gallos en
Jerez, este trato tenia ano y medio de haberse
efectuado; en ese tiempo de la Torre y Salcedo vendio
en 170 pesos y despues se valuo en 125, y Rose Gomez
reclama que no se le padgado la totalidad del precio y
que se resisten a pagar lo expresado y que esto iria
hasta los tribunales competentes.
La Audiencia Real de Mexico, expdio en 1716 eln
drecho de libertad a los escloavos de jerez, pero esto
no se lleva a cabo, todavio para el sigle XIX,
existian algunos esclavos."
Apparently, the widow of Eusebio Sanchez Castellanos,
a relative of my great----grandfather Antonio Sanchez
of Jerez, had a dispute over the ownership and price
of a slave by the name of Petra.
So you can see that some of our common ancestors from
Jerez, were buying and selling slaves during the early
history of Mexico. It was hard for me to believe that
any relative of mine would deal in such awful trade.
But life goes on regardless of what happend in the
past.
--- marge vallazza <TeaCozyGran@...> wrote:
> When I was in Zacatecas, our tour guide, who took us
> to my grandmother's hometown of Jerez, looked
> mulatto. But I wasn't about to tell him that he
> looked mulatto. BTW, Al, which ancestor bought
> slaves? Marge V.:)
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Alberto Duarte
> To: ranchos@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2005 4:17 PM
> Subject: Re: [ranchos] SALUDOS TO EVERYONE
>
>
> Note:
> I have a historical event book from Jerez, and
> there
> is an article where they were selling black and
> mulatto slaves on the open market (early 1700s).
> In
> fact, I believe one of my ancestors buying them.
>
> Question: What happened to all these slaves? When
> I
> went to Jerez, I didn't see a single black! I
> believe
> they were assimilated in to the population.
>
> Any comments?
>
> Alberto.
>
>
> --- alice wissing <alice_wissing@...> wrote:
>
> > Esperanza,
> >
> > I'm curious where you read about the blacks
> > outnumbering the Spaniards in Zacatecas. I've
> got
> > really weird hair and have been traced with
> > certainty to a few coyotes and a black, all from
> > Durango, which is next to Zacatecas. I've never
> met
> > another Mexican with hair as strange as mine -
> > coarse, dark, wavy, and it won't hold a curl. I
> can
> > even forecast the weather with this hair. Once
> I
> > told everyone it was going to rain and it was
> sunny
> > out. Nobody believed me and then it rained that
> > night. Sometimes I think God gave me this hair
> so
> > I'd always have something to do.
> >
> > Alice
> >
> > latina1955@... wrote:
> > Actually, for a while, blacks outnumbered
> Spaniards
> > in Zacatecas as well because they were being
> used in
> > the silver mines that dot the whole state. Did
> you
> > know that Michoacan had an enormous amount of
> > Africans there early on as well?
> >
> > Both my husband (from Michoacan) and myself
> would
> > bet that we have African blood running through
> our
> > veins - primarily because of the very nappy hair
> > that both sides of the relatives have.
> >
> > Esperanza
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
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> >
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> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
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> Term'
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>
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face=Arial color=#000000 size=2> You are correct about assimilation. Early terms were sambos (black and
white) and zambos (black and Indian or mestizo). These two terms became mulatto and later raza in order to establish ethnic pride after independence from Spain. |
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In a message dated 1/21/2005 1:37:17 PM Central Standard Time, makas@nc.rr.com writes: One thing I've noticed and seem to think it had reference to the struggle for Independance from Spain. . . But at a certain time period the records in Jalisco seem to stop indicating people by race. Those that were mestizo, mulato, espanol, indio etc are seen in the records as just people. I'm not sure of the date but somewhere in the early 1800's this absence of referring to race occured. Maybe what you are seeing is a gradual move from the "importance" of establishing race to the more politically correct or "preference" of the people to not have race play such an important part. Just a thought. I did a large paper for my masters degree about African slavery throughout Latin America. One of the things that stood out in my mind was that the "whitening" of Latin America occurred shortly after United States's attained Independence. The general feeling was that the reason U.S. was doing alot better than the rest of America was because they were "white". For a time, there was a policy throughout Latin America to "whiten" their population, by giving away land to anyone who came in from Europe. However, I don't remember this policy applying in Mexico - I do know it applied in Columbia, Venezuela, Peru, Brazil, etc. Perhaps the "whitening" or omitting the race of people in Mexico occurred in tangeant with the policy throughout Latin America? Esperanza
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One thing I've noticed and seem to think it had reference to the
I understand what you are saying but I wouldn't dream of sharing that
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Alice, When I became interested in geneology, I began to read everything I could about Zacatecas. I wish I could tell you where I got my information from, but I can't. What I do know for certainty is that the silver mines depended on the labor of the imported Africans because the Indigenous people were dying quickly of disease. I have actually met people from Zacatecas that look African, so I suspect there remains pockets of them throughout the state. I believe they were from the capitol - Zacatecas. Esperanza
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Note: I have a historical event book from Jerez, and there is an article where they were selling black and mulatto slaves on the open market (early 1700s). In fact, I believe one of my ancestors buying them. Question: What happened to all these slaves? When I went to Jerez, I didn't see a single black! I believe they were assimilated in to the population. Any comments? Alberto. --- alice wissing <alice_wissing@...> wrote: > Esperanza, > > I'm curious where you read about the blacks > outnumbering the Spaniards in Zacatecas. I've got > really weird hair and have been traced with > certainty to a few coyotes and a black, all from > Durango, which is next to Zacatecas. I've never met > another Mexican with hair as strange as mine - > coarse, dark, wavy, and it won't hold a curl. I can > even forecast the weather with this hair. Once I > told everyone it was going to rain and it was sunny > out. Nobody believed me and then it rained that > night. Sometimes I think God gave me this hair so > I'd always have something to do. > > Alice > > latina1955@... wrote: > Actually, for a while, blacks outnumbered Spaniards > in Zacatecas as well because they were being used in > the silver mines that dot the whole state. Did you > know that Michoacan had an enormous amount of > Africans there early on as well? > > Both my husband (from Michoacan) and myself would > bet that we have African blood running through our > veins - primarily because of the very nappy hair > that both sides of the relatives have. > > Esperanza > > > --------------------------------- > Yahoo! Groups Links > > To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ranchos/ > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > ranchos-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the > Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term' __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The all-new My Yahoo! - Get yours free! http://my.yahoo.com
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Esperanza,
I'm curious where you read about the blacks outnumbering the Spaniards in Zacatecas. I've got really weird hair and have been traced with certainty to a few coyotes and a black, all from Durango, which is next to Zacatecas. I've never met another Mexican with hair as strange as mine - coarse, dark, wavy, and it won't hold a curl. I can even forecast the weather with this hair. Once I told everyone it was going to rain and it was sunny out. Nobody believed me and then it rained that night. Sometimes I think God gave me this hair so I'd always have something to do.
Alice
latina1955@... wrote:
latina1955@... wrote:
Actually, for a while, blacks outnumbered Spaniards in Zacatecas as well because they were being used in the silver mines that dot the whole state. Did you know that Michoacan had an enormous amount of Africans there early on as well?
Both my husband (from Michoacan) and myself would bet that we have African blood running through our veins - primarily because of the very nappy hair that both sides of the relatives have.
Esperanza
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Actually, for a while, blacks outnumbered Spaniards in Zacatecas as well because they were being used in the silver mines that dot the whole state. Did you know that Michoacan had an enormous amount of Africans there early on as well? Both my husband (from Michoacan) and myself would bet that we have African blood running through our veins - primarily because of the very nappy hair that both sides of the relatives have. Esperanza
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Alberto,
There is a table in the book "Governance & Society in Colonial Mexico - Chihuahua in the Eighteenth Century" that contains the number of baptisms occurring in El Sagrario Parish broken down by race. In 1780 there were 66 mulatos, and in 1790 there were 0. It's as if they disappeared during a decade. One thing we can be certain about, it was not socially and economically advantageous for our ancestors to identify themselves as mulatos. Maybe the priests realized that and gradually phased out using the term.
Joseph, if you're out there, many years ago I tried telling a "sister" I worked with how I thought I was black because of my frizzy hair, and it really annoyed her. A word of advice to everyone: Be careful about flaunting your newfound heritage around blacks - they could think you are ridiculing them.
Alice
Alberto Duarte <albertodua@...> wrote:
Note:
I have a historical event book from Jerez, and there
is an article where they were selling black and
mulatto slaves on the open market (early 1700s). In
fact, I believe one of my ancestors buying them.
Question: What happened to all these slaves? When I
went to Jerez, I didn't see a single black! I believe
they were assimilated in to the population.
Any comments?
Alberto.
--- alice wissing <alice_wissing@...> wrote:
> Esperanza,
>
> I'm curious where you read about the blacks
> outnumbering the Spaniards in Zacatecas. I've got
> really weird hair and have been traced with
> certainty to a few coyotes and a black, all from
> Durango, which is next to Zacatecas. I've never met
> another Mexican with hair as strange as mine -
>
coarse, dark, wavy, and it won't hold a curl. I can
> even forecast the weather with this hair. Once I
> told everyone it was going to rain and it was sunny
> out. Nobody believed me and then it rained that
> night. Sometimes I think God gave me this hair so
> I'd always have something to do.
>
> Alice
>
> latina1955@... wrote:
> Actually, for a while, blacks outnumbered Spaniards
> in Zacatecas as well because they were being used in
> the silver mines that dot the whole state. Did you
> know that Michoacan had an enormous amount of
> Africans there early on as well?
>
> Both my husband (from Michoacan) and myself would
> bet that we have African blood running through our
> veins - primarily because of the very nappy hair
> that both sides of the relatives have.
>
> Esperanza
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ranchos/
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> ranchos-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
> Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term'
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When I was in Zacatecas, our tour guide, who took us to my grandmother's hometown of Jerez, looked mulatto. But I wasn't about to tell him that he looked mulatto. BTW, Al, which ancestor bought slaves? Marge V.:)
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We definetly shouldn't rule out the presence of blacks in México (and we might have some blood too!), but we have to be aware that blacks were brought to México at first when Spaniards arrive to Veracruz. This is why we find most black mexicans in the eastern coast of México (Gulf of Mexico). As soon as they started conquering the indians, the need for black labor became unnecessary. I would not question the veracity of Vaughn's assertion about black outnumbering spaniards (maybe at the beginning of the colony), but I doubt it is true in present day México. If I'm not mistaken (correct me if I am wrong), México and Argentina and the two latin american countries with the smallest black population. Guillermo Valdez. --- alice wissing <alice_wissing@...> wrote: > Hello, > > I've always wondered if any families had haciendas > in the Los Altos area and what differentiates a > ranch from a hacienda. Does anyone out there know > how I would go about finding that information? > > I stumbled across the Bobby Vaughn website some time > ago and found it fascinating. I think it was only > in Mexico City where the blacks outnumbered the > Spaniards. > > Thanks, > > Alice > > sgapodaca <sgapodaca@...> wrote: > > I hope everyone is doing ok. I just came back from a > trip to Jalisco > and wanted to let you know that I had a lot of fun. > Of course, I used > some of my time there interviewing my relatives and > visiting the > Zacoalco's notaria for records from the 1700's. > Soon, I'll post an > updated family tree on the files section. > > By the way, the conversation about spanish ancestors > and indios > ancestors is past already, but I just wanted to > remind you that we > must not forget our african roots. According to > researcher Bobby > Vaughn, black population outnumbered spaniards > during most of the > colonial times. Have a look at this page: > www.afromexico.com I, and > probably many of you, have found mulatos, coyotes, > and similar terms > on some of our lines, which means that we also have > african roots. > > Is anyone aware of a book called "Haciendas y > Estancias de Jalisco"? > Well, on a trip to Guadalajara, I got a copy of this > book, and even > though I haven't read it all, It has some > interesting information on > the haciendas of Jalisco. > > Ok, I'll keep in touch. > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Yahoo! Groups Links > > To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ranchos/ > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > ranchos-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the > Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term' __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Meet the all-new My Yahoo! - Try it today! http://my.yahoo.com
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