Published by bngelqdervante –

Comentario


Bien dicho Guillermo,



Yes if we can learn the different things that "Indios de nosotros" went
through and any of that history that will give us a good way to get an
idea of how we as individuals were molded via the attitudes and ideas
of those that were our forefathers. Maybe we can start a movement
within the group to post what they have with regards to our indian
roots from the Jalisco, Zacatecas and Aguascalientes area.



I'll contribute at least my 1/70th of an effort in sending along info
on our indios. . .maybe a few others can take a little time and study
some things and send then in for our edification.



Feliz Navidad Primos, Primas, companeros en buscando nuestros raices.



joseph



Guillermo Valdez wrote:


cite="">
I honestly don't think anybody in this group is
searching for their mexican roots in the hopes of
finding out they only have "pure" european blood (if
anybody is, I'd feel sorry for them). 

What should make us proud is finding the mixture of
indian, white, etc., blood in us and to feel proud of
our traditions. We need to learn to appreciate the
struggles our ancestors have to pass through
(specially the indians) so we can be here sharing all
this in our group.

I am very proud of my mexican roots and that, to me,
means primarily indian blood. The european part of us
is inevitable, since our ancestors had to withstand
the white conquerors for some many centuries. But, I
proudly can say: Soy indio tambien! and a proud one as
well. And I intend to pass that on to my children,
since they will grow up in this great country and I
don't want them to forget where they come from and and
to lose their traditions.

Guillermo.
 
--- Joseph Puentes <makas@...> wrote:

  
alice wissing wrote:

    
Joseph,
 
Would you be willing to share the results of your
      
DNA test with the group?

absolutely, would be willing to, but I haven't quite
figured out how to 
do that. let me think on it a bit. I've forwarded
this message to Gary 
Felix with the question of how best I should share
my DNA results with a 
group of people.

    
I'd like to know whether you felt it was worth the
      
money and trouble.

was it worth the money and trouble, well first it
was no trouble at all 
unless you consider a slight scratching (no blood)
of the inside of your 
cheek trouble. With regards to the money well I look
at that this way - 
somebody had to go first so why not me. Heck a
thousand years from now I 
plan on being a genealogical god. . .i figure
someone will be saying wow 
that Joseph Puentes sure was a visionary to have
done all that genealogy 
and his DNA testing to boot! Right now I have some
unique opportunities: 
To collect Oral History before it dies out AND to
collect DNA before I 
lose track of it. What do I mean by that?. . .well
for example on my 
mom's side I have one brother of her's alive (an
uncle) that is 
unwilling to give me a DNA sample. He had daughters
not sons (well I 
heard he has sons from a previous marriage) and
after he dies I will 
have lost that opportunity to trace the DNA of my
mom's fathers side. I 
have done my dad's side through my YDNA and my mom's
mom's mom's (etc.) 
side through my MtDNA. I know where I can get my
paternal grandmother's 
DNA collected and will be trying to gather that
sometime soon. . . .I 
guess what I'm getting at is that I intend on
forward tracing as many of 
the surnames in my family as possible before I die
so I can find folks 
alive today with that surname and "GROW" the family
that much more, BUT 
also be able to collect DNA from them. Its a job
that must be done and I 
would like to get as good a jump on it as I can. I
believe at sometime 
in the future there will be a curious soul come
along like me and 
continue the work. I think they will take my work
and advance it. Heck i 
might find that as I forward trace the family I
might find others that 
have greatly surpassed my work already. Some folks
don't realize that 
forward tracing might be the answer to many a brick
wall.

    
 
Also, I haven't heard anybody out their brag about
      
their dark or short 
    
relatives.
      
what are you talking about. . .didn't you read that
story I sent called 
"Muchacha" (attached: also a picture of a very dark
and short Antonia 
Santa Maria many years later). . .I am so proud of
my Indian Heritage I 
could just weep when I think of how that heritage
was raped. I will 
admit that I do very dearly love finding that next
older generation and 
would like to be able to trace all the way to
Adam/Eve if it were 
possible and when I find a dead end "Indio" branch
I'm only disappointed 
because I know the "paper trail" will soon end, BUT
that has nothing at 
all to do with a lack of pride of my browness. Heck
here in NC I could 
pass as white. One day at the lunch table I was
chowing down on some 
"Churches" chicken and one of the black ladies said
"hey Joseph white 
foks don't eat Churches chicken" I told her strait -
"White's alright, 
Black is beautiful, but if you're Brown stick
around! I'm not white." I 
think I taught a Post Office full of fellow workers
that they should not 
look on Mexicans as just "other" white folks.

    
  The more I learn about Mexican history, the more
      
I value Indian 
    
characteristics and view them as attractive.
      
me too! I wish I could find more about them all the
time. In fact just 
this past weekend I found a real treasure in a used
book store. . ."Los 
Huicholes" by Ramon Mata Torres. I think Alicia
Carrillo is right about 
studying the "Caxcanes the Guachichiles and the
Huicholes." That might 
be as close as we get to learning about our indian
roots (I'm sure there 
were other Tribes as well during the different time
periods) . . .to 
study about those groups in a general sense. In the
older Chihuahua 
records I've seen where they ID Indios by the
specific tribe but it 
seems that in Jalisco they were content to just say
Indio/India, I would 
dearly like to find more specific info on which
tribe I am.

    
  The study of my family's genealogy has made me
      
love and respect all 
    
my relatives equally, regardless of whether they
      
turned out European, 
    
Indian, black, or Asian looking.
      
Amen. . .and the name makes no never mind as well. 
.. .its the blood in 
our veins that counts and that blood crosses all
barriers.

    
  In fact, the variety in their appearance serves
      
to remind me just 
    
how mixed a race we are.
      
there are no pure breds out there. . .I'd love to
see a DNA test showing 
a straight up no mix person. . .not possible!

    
 
I hope there are others who feel the same way.
      
you said it right!

    
 
Alicia
      
ps: Sylvia, please do post your Los Altos Lamb
recipe. . .give us the 
history as far as where you think it might have come
from. Seems that 
someone in the family had to be the first to cook
it. . .could have been 
your parents or grandparents or even further back.

    
Joseph Puentes <makas@...> wrote:

    Sylvia,

    welcome to the group. . .look don't let me
      
bother you too much
    
    about the deadline. If April 15 approaches and
      
you are not ready
    
    just email me directly (makas@...) let
      
me know you are not
    
    ready and how much more time you'll need and
      
you will be "spared"
    
    the savageness of my axe swing. I'm trying to
      
be reasonable and
    
    give people extra time if needed. then again
      
some never
    
    communicate and won't submit and they of
      
course will only feel my
    
    wrath come April 15th.

    joseph

    ps: about the virus thing you mentioned. .
      
.one word: garlic; ajo.
    
    If you have an interest in what i'm talking
      
about I can share how
    
    it will help you fight future bouts with the
      
more typical virus'
    
    people comfront.

    pps: cool message from Egypt to Yucatan to
      
Zacatecas. 
    
=== message truncated ===

  
ATTACHMENT part 2 application/msword
    
name=Muchacha7_24_2004.doc


  
ATTACHMENT part 3 image/jpeg
    
name=AntoniaSMDARK_OPT.jpg




		
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Comentario

I honestly don't think anybody in this group is
searching for their mexican roots in the hopes of
finding out they only have "pure" european blood (if
anybody is, I'd feel sorry for them). 

What should make us proud is finding the mixture of
indian, white, etc., blood in us and to feel proud of
our traditions. We need to learn to appreciate the
struggles our ancestors have to pass through
(specially the indians) so we can be here sharing all
this in our group.

I am very proud of my mexican roots and that, to me,
means primarily indian blood. The european part of us
is inevitable, since our ancestors had to withstand
the white conquerors for some many centuries. But, I
proudly can say: Soy indio tambien! and a proud one as
well. And I intend to pass that on to my children,
since they will grow up in this great country and I
don't want them to forget where they come from and and
to lose their traditions.

Guillermo.
 
--- Joseph Puentes <makas@...> wrote:

> 
> 
> alice wissing wrote:
> 
> > Joseph,
> >  
> > Would you be willing to share the results of your
> DNA test with the group?
> 
> absolutely, would be willing to, but I haven't quite
> figured out how to 
> do that. let me think on it a bit. I've forwarded
> this message to Gary 
> Felix with the question of how best I should share
> my DNA results with a 
> group of people.
> 
> > I'd like to know whether you felt it was worth the
> money and trouble.
> 
> was it worth the money and trouble, well first it
> was no trouble at all 
> unless you consider a slight scratching (no blood)
> of the inside of your 
> cheek trouble. With regards to the money well I look
> at that this way - 
> somebody had to go first so why not me. Heck a
> thousand years from now I 
> plan on being a genealogical god. . .i figure
> someone will be saying wow 
> that Joseph Puentes sure was a visionary to have
> done all that genealogy 
> and his DNA testing to boot! Right now I have some
> unique opportunities: 
> To collect Oral History before it dies out AND to
> collect DNA before I 
> lose track of it. What do I mean by that?. . .well
> for example on my 
> mom's side I have one brother of her's alive (an
> uncle) that is 
> unwilling to give me a DNA sample. He had daughters
> not sons (well I 
> heard he has sons from a previous marriage) and
> after he dies I will 
> have lost that opportunity to trace the DNA of my
> mom's fathers side. I 
> have done my dad's side through my YDNA and my mom's
> mom's mom's (etc.) 
> side through my MtDNA. I know where I can get my
> paternal grandmother's 
> DNA collected and will be trying to gather that
> sometime soon. . . .I 
> guess what I'm getting at is that I intend on
> forward tracing as many of 
> the surnames in my family as possible before I die
> so I can find folks 
> alive today with that surname and "GROW" the family
> that much more, BUT 
> also be able to collect DNA from them. Its a job
> that must be done and I 
> would like to get as good a jump on it as I can. I
> believe at sometime 
> in the future there will be a curious soul come
> along like me and 
> continue the work. I think they will take my work
> and advance it. Heck i 
> might find that as I forward trace the family I
> might find others that 
> have greatly surpassed my work already. Some folks
> don't realize that 
> forward tracing might be the answer to many a brick
> wall.
> 
> >  
> > Also, I haven't heard anybody out their brag about
> their dark or short 
> > relatives.
> 
> what are you talking about. . .didn't you read that
> story I sent called 
> "Muchacha" (attached: also a picture of a very dark
> and short Antonia 
> Santa Maria many years later). . .I am so proud of
> my Indian Heritage I 
> could just weep when I think of how that heritage
> was raped. I will 
> admit that I do very dearly love finding that next
> older generation and 
> would like to be able to trace all the way to
> Adam/Eve if it were 
> possible and when I find a dead end "Indio" branch
> I'm only disappointed 
> because I know the "paper trail" will soon end, BUT
> that has nothing at 
> all to do with a lack of pride of my browness. Heck
> here in NC I could 
> pass as white. One day at the lunch table I was
> chowing down on some 
> "Churches" chicken and one of the black ladies said
> "hey Joseph white 
> foks don't eat Churches chicken" I told her strait -
> "White's alright, 
> Black is beautiful, but if you're Brown stick
> around! I'm not white." I 
> think I taught a Post Office full of fellow workers
> that they should not 
> look on Mexicans as just "other" white folks.
> 
> >   The more I learn about Mexican history, the more
> I value Indian 
> > characteristics and view them as attractive.
> 
> me too! I wish I could find more about them all the
> time. In fact just 
> this past weekend I found a real treasure in a used
> book store. . ."Los 
> Huicholes" by Ramon Mata Torres. I think Alicia
> Carrillo is right about 
> studying the "Caxcanes the Guachichiles and the
> Huicholes." That might 
> be as close as we get to learning about our indian
> roots (I'm sure there 
> were other Tribes as well during the different time
> periods) . . .to 
> study about those groups in a general sense. In the
> older Chihuahua 
> records I've seen where they ID Indios by the
> specific tribe but it 
> seems that in Jalisco they were content to just say
> Indio/India, I would 
> dearly like to find more specific info on which
> tribe I am.
> 
> >   The study of my family's genealogy has made me
> love and respect all 
> > my relatives equally, regardless of whether they
> turned out European, 
> > Indian, black, or Asian looking.
> 
> Amen. . .and the name makes no never mind as well. 
> .. .its the blood in 
> our veins that counts and that blood crosses all
> barriers.
> 
> >   In fact, the variety in their appearance serves
> to remind me just 
> > how mixed a race we are.
> 
> there are no pure breds out there. . .I'd love to
> see a DNA test showing 
> a straight up no mix person. . .not possible!
> 
> >  
> > I hope there are others who feel the same way.
> 
> you said it right!
> 
> >  
> > Alicia
> 
> ps: Sylvia, please do post your Los Altos Lamb
> recipe. . .give us the 
> history as far as where you think it might have come
> from. Seems that 
> someone in the family had to be the first to cook
> it. . .could have been 
> your parents or grandparents or even further back.
> 
> >
> >
> > Joseph Puentes <makas@...> wrote:
> >
> >     Sylvia,
> >
> >     welcome to the group. . .look don't let me
> bother you too much
> >     about the deadline. If April 15 approaches and
> you are not ready
> >     just email me directly (makas@...) let
> me know you are not
> >     ready and how much more time you'll need and
> you will be "spared"
> >     the savageness of my axe swing. I'm trying to
> be reasonable and
> >     give people extra time if needed. then again
> some never
> >     communicate and won't submit and they of
> course will only feel my
> >     wrath come April 15th.
> >
> >     joseph
> >
> >     ps: about the virus thing you mentioned. .
> .one word: garlic; ajo.
> >     If you have an interest in what i'm talking
> about I can share how
> >     it will help you fight future bouts with the
> more typical virus'
> >     people comfront.
> >
> >     pps: cool message from Egypt to Yucatan to
> Zacatecas. 
=== message truncated ===

> ATTACHMENT part 2 application/msword
name=Muchacha7_24_2004.doc


> ATTACHMENT part 3 image/jpeg
name=AntoniaSMDARK_OPT.jpg




		
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Comentario


Wow, what a great
story.  I bet the same happened to many of our grandparents that came
from Mexico during those hard times.  They suffered great hardships and
give up many sacrifices so that we could led a better life.

size=2>
 
size=2>Regards.

size=2> 

size=2>Alberto.


size=2>-----Original Message-----
From: Joseph Puentes
[mailto:makas@...]
Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 5:03
PM
To: ranchos@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [ranchos] DNA: Soy
Indio Tambien!



alice wissing wrote:


type="cite">
Joseph,

 

Would you be willing to share the results of your DNA test with the
group?
absolutely, would be willing to, but I haven't quite
figured out how to do that. let me think on it a bit. I've forwarded this
message to Gary Felix with the question of how best I should share my DNA
results with a group of people.


type="cite">
I'd like to know whether you felt it was worth the money and
trouble.
was it worth the money and trouble, well first it
was no trouble at all unless you consider a slight scratching (no blood) of
the inside of your cheek trouble. With regards to the money well I look at
that this way - somebody had to go first so why not me. Heck a thousand years
from now I plan on being a genealogical god. . .i figure someone will be
saying wow that Joseph Puentes sure was a visionary to have done all that
genealogy and his DNA testing to boot! Right now I have some unique
opportunities: To collect Oral History before it dies out AND to collect DNA
before I lose track of it. What do I mean by that?. . .well for example on my
mom's side I have one brother of her's alive (an uncle) that is unwilling to
give me a DNA sample. He had daughters not sons (well I heard he has sons from
a previous marriage) and after he dies I will have lost that opportunity to
trace the DNA of my mom's fathers side. I have done my dad's side through my
YDNA and my mom's mom's mom's (etc.) side through my MtDNA. I know where I can
get my paternal grandmother's DNA collected and will be trying to gather that
sometime soon. . . .I guess what I'm getting at is that I intend on forward
tracing as many of the surnames in my family as possible before I die so I can
find folks alive today with that surname and "GROW" the family that much more,
BUT also be able to collect DNA from them. Its a job that must be done and I
would like to get as good a jump on it as I can. I believe at sometime in the
future there will be a curious soul come along like me and continue the work.
I think they will take my work and advance it. Heck i might find that as I
forward trace the family I might find others that have greatly surpassed my
work already. Some folks don't realize that forward tracing might be the
answer to many a brick wall.


type="cite">
 

Also, I haven't heard anybody out their brag about their dark or short
relatives.
what are you talking about. . .didn't you read
that story I sent called "Muchacha" (attached: also a picture of a very dark
and short Antonia Santa Maria many years later). . .I am so proud of my Indian
Heritage I could just weep when I think of how that heritage was raped. I will
admit that I do very dearly love finding that next older generation and would
like to be able to trace all the way to Adam/Eve if it were possible and when
I find a dead end "Indio" branch I'm only disappointed because I know the
"paper trail" will soon end, BUT that has nothing at all to do with a lack of
pride of my browness. Heck here in NC I could pass as white. One day at the
lunch table I was chowing down on some "Churches" chicken and one of the black
ladies said "hey Joseph white foks don't eat Churches chicken" I told her
strait - "White's alright, Black is beautiful, but if you're Brown stick
around! I'm not white." I think I taught a Post Office full of fellow workers
that they should not look on Mexicans as just "other" white folks.


type="cite">
  The more I learn about Mexican history, the more I value
Indian characteristics and view them as attractive.
me too!
I wish I could find more about them all the time. In fact just this past
weekend I found a real treasure in a used book store. . ."Los Huicholes" by
Ramon Mata Torres. I think Alicia Carrillo is right about studying the
"Caxcanes the Guachichiles and the Huicholes." That might be as close as we
get to learning about our indian roots (I'm sure there were other Tribes as
well during the different time periods) . . .to study about those groups in a
general sense. In the older Chihuahua records I've seen where they ID Indios
by the specific tribe but it seems that in Jalisco they were content to just
say Indio/India, I would dearly like to find more specific info on which tribe
I am.


type="cite">
  The study of my family's genealogy has made me love and respect
all my relatives equally, regardless of whether they turned out European,
Indian, black, or Asian looking.
Amen. . .and the name
makes no never mind as well.  .. .its the blood in our veins that counts
and that blood crosses all barriers.


type="cite">
  In fact, the variety in their appearance serves to remind me
just how mixed a race we are.
there are no pure breds
out there. . .I'd love to see a DNA test showing a straight up no mix person.
. .not possible!


type="cite">

 

I hope there are others who feel the same way.
you said
it right!


type="cite">
 

Alicia
ps: Sylvia, please do post your Los Altos Lamb
recipe. . .give us the history as far as where you think it might have come
from. Seems that someone in the family had to be the first to cook it. .
.could have been your parents or grandparents or even further back.


type="cite">

style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid">Sylvia,

welcome
to the group. . .look don't let me bother you too much about the deadline.
If April 15 approaches and you are not ready just email me directly (
class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated
href="mailto:makas@...">makas@...) let me know you are not
ready and how much more time you'll need and you
will be "spared" the savageness of my
axe swing. I'm trying to be reasonable and give people extra time if
needed. then again some never communicate and won't submit and they of
course will only feel my wrath come April 15th.

joseph

ps:
about the virus thing you mentioned. . .one word: garlic; ajo. If you have
an interest in what i'm talking about I can share how it will help you
fight future bouts with the more typical virus' people comfront.


pps: cool message from Egypt to Yucatan to Zacatecas. . ! .as long
as you tie it into Zacatecas I'd be interested in reading a little more
about this. I for one would like to trace my DNA indicated Irish, Swedish,
English, Jewish roots to my genealogical Mexican roots. Of course those
other roots probably happened mega thousands of years ago and my genealogy
is only back to about 1730 so far.

Sylvia Robles wrote:

I in short am on the "bad girl" list for not yet posting my GEDOM 
Data as of yet. I just lost my mother in law and have been fighting 
one virus after another including, healing up my badly sprained 
ankle.  This is my #3 attempt to use this thing right! I am descended 
from grandparents from Teocaltihe, Jalisco and Pinos, Zacactecas. I 
have travelled to both towns and collected substantial data and books 
from region. I have oral tradition of Judio customs from Zacatecas 
side whose journey to Merida, Yucatan was from Egypt. The family 
owned several cattle ranches, a hacienda in Pinos and meat markets 
throughout Jalisco, Aguacalientes and Zacatecas.  The Los Altos, side 
which are in fact tall, 6 to 6'4" were artisans of leather.




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