Hi Arturo and all,

I've been following this thread because I hit a brick wall on one of 
my lines and had the same thought as Arturo--to look at the death 
records.  However, a recent post by Jonathan got me thinking of 
ordering the Informacion Matrimonial film.  I had not planned on 
ordering that film because I have a copy of the marriage record for 
the couple in question.  I've changed my mind since and I think I'll 
take my chances with the Informacion Matrimonal for the couple.  I 
may find more info there than in the death records.  I thought I 
would mention that to you Arturo, in case that film is available for 
the parrish you are interested in.

Maria

--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "Emilie Garcia" <auntyemfaustus@h...> 
wrote:
>
> Arturo,  again I have found the same things in the death records as 
has Alicia.  I always thought my grandmother was an only child, but 
when I checked birth and death records, I found that infant mortality 
was high then.  Also, if a child survived only a few hours or days, 
and was even baptized with a name, no one remembered that child since 
they hadn't gotten to know it and the mothers in their pain and 
sorrow preferred to forget and not mention them.  They had to 
concentrate on the living.  
> 
> I found that my older relatives were only aware of those infants 
who lived long enough to have been a big part of the family with 
pictures, etc.  My mother Luisa had a sister born before her named 
Luisa who only lived a few days, but she only knew of her other 
living sister Emilia and one little cutie that she had a picture of 
and remembered babysitting until the child died at nine months around 
1910.  I still have that picture of little Alejandra.  She was as 
beautiful as an angel.  My mother said of all her younger siblings 
that Alejandra had been the prettiest.  That is probably why they had 
her picture taken.  Children were not immunized for diptheria, 
measles, etc. then, so they often did not survive childhood 
diseases.  How sad. 
> 
> Emilie Garcia
> Port Orchard, WA ----
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: Alicia Carrillo<mailto:alliecar@p...> 
>   To: ranchos@yahoogroups.com<mailto:ranchos@yahoogroups.com> 
>   Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2005 9:01 AM
>   Subject: Re: [ranchos] Entierros
> 
> 
>   Arturo,
> 
>   I have looked at some films for entierros or defunciones for 
Nochistlan Zac, therefore I can only speak of these findings. They 
can be hit or miss, some are very explicit as to the cause of death 
but very sparse in terms of familial connections. For example if it 
was a spouse who died at child birth it will give the husband's name 
but won't say who her parents are. Most of what I found in entierros 
or defunciones did not give a lot of information about family 
relations.
> 
>   It's good film to view for historical purposes. I gleaned from 
some of these films that there was an epidemic in a certain area of 
typhoid fever or that a high incidence of infants were dying of 
infeccion del ombligo/infection of the umbilical cord which could 
lead one to believe that they had little or no medical care at child 
birth. There were many women who died de "nacimiento prematuro'' 
which didn't make sense to me that it should be put in these terms. 
Premature labor is not necessarily cause for the mother's death. It's 
usually the birthing process whether premature or not.
> 
>   If it was a child who died it would give the child's parents' 
name but not the grandparents. They are very explicit about the cause 
of death, it could say murio de quemado (died as a result of burns) 
or lo corno un toro,(was gored by a bull). You may not get much 
information but I would say it's still worth your time to look at 
these films. It provides a lens for viewing how people lived and died 
in those times.
> 
>   I imagine today we might have many death certificates that would 
say died of AIDS or of drug overdose or car accident, breast cancer 
etc.
> 
>   These films were useful to me because when I had viewed film and 
extracted data from birth or baptism certificates I would ask mom 
about a certain uncle and she once said I didn't have an uncle by 
that name. I researched the death records and found the death 
certificate, murio de ½ hora de nacido,  mystery solved. 
> 
>   If you do view these films maybe you can give us a little insight 
about your findings and the historical perspective. I hope this 
helps..............Alicia Carrillo de San Jose, Ca
> 
>   Arturo Ramos <arturo.ramos2@v...> wrote:
>     Can someone who has looked at films of parrish books listing 
burials 
>     tell me how extensive the information listed in these books 
is?  Does 
>     it list parents, survivors of the deceased?  I have two 
particular 
>     issues... one where I cannot connect an ancestor (Marcos LEMUS 
m. Maria 
>     Barbara YBARRA) to any one of his potential parents (children 
of a 
>     Felipe LEMUS that was the grantee of the land where Marcos 
lived, his 
>     children were born, etc.).  I cannot find a marriage or birth 
record 
>     for him...
> 
>     The other is that baptismal and marriage records for Jerez, 
Zacatecas 
>     seem to be missing for the crucial period at the end of the 
17th and 
>     beginning of the 18th century when many families moved from 
there to 
>     Totatiche, Jalisco... so I am hoping that death records will 
make the 
>     connection.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>     SPONSORED LINKS Aguascalientes<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
t=ms&k=Aguascalientes&w1=Aguascalientes&w2=Criminal+offenses&w3=Zacate
cas&w4=Zacatecas+mexico&w5=Zacatecas+hotel&w6=Fiesta+americana+aguasca
lientes&c=6&s=138&.sig=3dGDyzZK1JYlft_kl5Y0RA>  Criminal 
offenses<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
t=ms&k=Criminal+offenses&w1=Aguascalientes&w2=Criminal+offenses&w3=Zac
atecas&w4=Zacatecas+mexico&w5=Zacatecas+hotel&w6=Fiesta+americana+agua
scalientes&c=6&s=138&sig=rIqx_vlal4c5USviDDmPCQ>  
Zacatecas<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
t=ms&k=Zacatecas&w1=Aguascalientes&w2=Criminal+offenses&w3=Zacatecas&w
4=Zacatecas+mexico&w5=Zacatecas+hotel&w6=Fiesta+americana+aguascalient
es&c=6&s=138&.sig=0I9QabaLqZysHNkjQQ8kLA>  
>           Zacatecas mexico<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
t=ms&k=Zacatecas+mexico&w1=Aguascalientes&w2=Criminal+offenses&w3=Zaca
tecas&w4=Zacatecas+mexico&w5=Zacatecas+hotel&w6=Fiesta+americana+aguas
calientes&c=6&s=138&.sig=cOINbNYO1WJJy2BT4tgmBA>  Zacatecas 
hotel<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
t=ms&k=Zacatecas+hotel&w1=Aguascalientes&w2=Criminal+offenses&w3=Zacat
ecas&w4=Zacatecas+mexico&w5=Zacatecas+hotel&w6=Fiesta+americana+aguasc
alientes&c=6&s=138&.sig=IlWErASU8JXH8YNhGBk9hQ>  Fiesta americana 
aguascalientes<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
t=ms&k=Fiesta+americana+aguascalientes&w1=Aguascalientes&w2=Criminal+o
ffenses&w3=Zacatecas&w4=Zacatecas+mexico&w5=Zacatecas+hotel&w6=Fiesta+
americana+aguascalientes&c=6&s=138&.sig=VhhnwMFlUbMHR432RtNUkw>  
> 
> 
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
----------
>   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS 
> 
>     a..  Visit your 
group "ranchos<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ranchos>" on the web.
>       
>     b..  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>      ranchos-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com<mailto:ranchos-
unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
>       
>     c..  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms 
of Service<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>. 
> 
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
----------
>