ADN de Los Altos de Jalisco

Hola a todos,

Ya he subido algunos de los resultados de ADN de las muestras que se tomaron aquí en Los Altos de Jalisco.

Comentarios

Comentario

Hola :

Tengo en mi linea de Padilla , un Moreno de Ortega , los padres de Maria de Guadalupe Moreno Gutierres, nacida el 14 sep. 1704 en Lagos de Moreno en la Hda. de Los Biscainos, su padre Don Antonio Moreno de Orteda y Doña Catharina Gutierres.
Espero que te ayude esta información.
atte Salvador Gtz.

Comentario

yo tambien tengo a Don Antonio de Moreno y Ortega y a Dña Catharina
Gutierres pero mi rama es por otro hijo, Miguel.

Date una vueltita a mi árbol...

http://www.myheritage.es/site-family-tree-77742353/sitio-familiar-patri…

Esta abierto, te debe de dejar entrar....

2011/8/2

> Hola :
>
> Tengo en mi linea de Padilla , un Moreno de Ortega , los padres de Maria de
> Guadalupe Moreno Gutierres, nacida el 14 sep. 1704 en Lagos de Moreno en la
> Hda. de Los Biscainos, su padre Don Antonio Moreno de Orteda y Doña
> Catharina Gutierres.
> Espero que te ayude esta información.
> atte Salvador Gtz.

Comentario

Hola Salvador,

Tengo a esa familia en mi página en
http://gw0.geneanet.org/index.php3?b=arman212&lang=es;p=antonio;n=moren…
Casi todo los hermanos de Maria de Guadalupe nacieron en los Vizcaínos que
ahora pertenece al municipio de Unión de San Antonio y fue hacienda de la
familia Vázquez Zermeño en prestanombre del Gral Agustin Rincón de Ortega
Vivar según el libro de Mario Gómez Mata página 67.

¿Tienes a los padres de Catarina Gutíerrez?

Un saludo cordial,
Armando

2011/8/2

> Hola :
>
> Tengo en mi linea de Padilla , un Moreno de Ortega , los padres de Maria de
> Guadalupe Moreno Gutierres, nacida el 14 sep. 1704 en Lagos de Moreno en la
> Hda. de Los Biscainos, su padre Don Antonio Moreno de Orteda y Doña
> Catharina Gutierres.
> Espero que te ayude esta información.
> atte Salvador Gtz.

Comentario

Hola Ricardo,

Me gustaria saber los horarios y el lugar donde sera la reunion.

Tambien me gustaria comunicarte que yo tengo los resultados de mi ADN. Por la linea paterna, yo deciendo de Miguel Gtz Rubio y de Leonor de Hermosillo. Te los envio a ti directamente para sean incluidos en tu pagina de ADN?

Sergio Gutierrez

Comentario

Hola Sergio,

La reunión y pláticas comenzarán a las 11:00 AM en la Casa de la Cultura de
Valle de Guadalupe, como parte de la semana cultural aquí en el municipio.
En estos días te envío el programa para que lo tengas. Esperamos contar con
tu presencia. Después de la comida, nos pensamos reunir para platicar acerca
de genealogía y compartir información.

La invitación está abierta para toda persona que guste asistir.

Saludos,

R. Rodríguez

Comentario

Estoy interesado en la reunion soy aficionado a la genealogia, me gustaria saber en que fecha sera,.

Sin mas de momento reciban un saludo.

Atte.
Jose Maria Vallejo

> From: rickrod.com@gmail.com
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2011 03:17:55 -0500
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Reunion en el Valle de Guadalupe
>
> Hola Sergio,
>
> La reunión y pláticas comenzarán a las 11:00 AM en la Casa de la Cultura de
> Valle de Guadalupe, como parte de la semana cultural aquí en el municipio.
> En estos días te envío el programa para que lo tengas. Esperamos contar con
> tu presencia. Después de la comida, nos pensamos reunir para platicar acerca
> de genealogía y compartir información.
>
> La invitación está abierta para toda persona que guste asistir.
>
> Saludos,
>
> R. Rodríguez
>

Comentario

Buenas tardes, cuando será esta reunión, me gustaría volver a asistir.

Rodolfo Sinaí Gómez

> From: josema.vallejo@hotmail.com
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2011 15:05:18 -0500
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Reunion en el Valle de Guadalupe
>
>
> Estoy interesado en la reunion soy aficionado a la genealogia, me gustaria saber en que fecha sera,.
>
> Sin mas de momento reciban un saludo.
>
> Atte.
> Jose Maria Vallejo
>
>
> > From: rickrod.com@gmail.com
> > To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> > Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2011 03:17:55 -0500
> > Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Reunion en el Valle de Guadalupe
> >
> > Hola Sergio,
> >
> > La reunión y pláticas comenzarán a las 11:00 AM en la Casa de la Cultura de
> > Valle de Guadalupe, como parte de la semana cultural aquí en el municipio.
> > En estos días te envío el programa para que lo tengas. Esperamos contar con
> > tu presencia. Después de la comida, nos pensamos reunir para platicar acerca
> >

Comentario

Hola a todos,

Les aviso que por causas de fuerza mayor, se ha pospuesto la plática de este
próximo sábado con el Padre Chayo aquí en Valle de Guadalupe. La fecha
tentativa para que se lleve a cabo este evento será en Enero 2012, durante
las fiestas patronales de nuestro municipio. Si Dios quiere, tendremos una
serie de distintas pláticas acerca de varios temas de la región, ya que será
un evento regional y todos ustedes están cordialmente invitados a asistir y
a ser parte de nuestro evento.

De todas maneras nos vamos a reunir el sábado aquí en la casa de todos
ustedes para platicar acerca de varios temas referentes a la genealogía, e
igualmente todos están invitados.

Para cualquier duda, pregunta o comentario, siéntanse libres de escribirme.

Gracias y saludos,

Ricardo

Comentario

Rick,

Just to be clear, is this Valle de Guadalupe in Guanajuato or Zacatecas?

----- Original Message -----

From: "Rick Rodriguez"
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Cc: "ruben casillas moreno" , consejodecronistas@yahoogrupos.com.mx, xalos68@hotmail.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 3, 2011 1:04:57 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Reunion en el Valle de Guadalupe

Hola a todos,

Les aviso que por causas de fuerza mayor, se ha pospuesto la plática de este
próximo sábado con el Padre Chayo aquí en Valle de Guadalupe. La fecha
tentativa para que se lleve a cabo este evento será en Enero 2012, durante
las fiestas patronales de nuestro municipio. Si Dios quiere, tendremos una
serie de distintas pláticas acerca de varios temas de la región, ya que será
un evento regional y todos ustedes están cordialmente invitados a asistir y
a ser parte de nuestro evento.

De todas maneras nos vamos a reunir el sábado aquí en la casa de todos
ustedes para platicar acerca de varios temas

Comentario

Hola A Tod@s:

Creo que es imposible saber el ADN de los apellidos de los Alteños, en lo personal soy Gutierrez Reynoso, mis antepasados se fueron de Jalos a Lagos de Moreno en 1730 aprox, de ahí se casaron muchas veses con Gonzalez de Ruvalcaba, tambien De Anda Altamirano, Padilla de San Juan de Los Lagos, Olivares de San Juan ,Hernandes Gamiño etc, etc, por ultimo mi padre se caso con una Reynoso de San Miguel el Alto, susede que el antepasado mas antiguo de los Reynoso que tengo , Sebastian de Reynoso , se caso con Francisca Gutierrez de Hermosillo , hermana de Lazaro Gutierrez de Hermosillo,mi antapasado directo , hijo de Francisco Gutiérrez Rubio, Tu crees que el ADN que tengo es de Gutierrez de Hermosillo todavia, con todo respeto para quien esta investigando, pero es un ADN de los Altos de Jalisco simplemente.
saludos.
Salvador Gutiérrez Reynoso

Comentario

DNA is father to son only... MTDNA is mother to daughter only..
Linda in B.C.

From: "chavagure@yahoo.com.mx"
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thursday, August 4, 2011 8:03 AM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Gutierrez de Hermosillo

Hola Sergio:

Creo que es  imposible saber el ADN de los apellidos de los Alteños, en lo personal soy Gutierrez Reynoso, mis antepasados se fueron de Jalos a Lagos de Moreno en 1730 aprox, de ahí se casaron muchas veses con Gonzalez de Ruvalcaba, tambien De Anda Altamirano, Padilla de San Juan de Los Lagos, Olivares de San Juan ,Hernandes Gamiño etc, etc, por ultimo mi padre se caso con una Reynoso de San Miguel el Alto, susede que el antepasado mas antiguo de los Reynoso que tengo , Sebastian de Reynoso , se caso con Francisca Gutierrez de Hermosillo , hermana de Lazaro  Gutierrez de Hermosillo, Tu crees que el ADN  que tengo es de Gutierrez de Hermosillo todavia, con todo respeto para quien esta investigando, pero  es  un ADN de los Altos de

Comentario

mtDNA is also mother to son. Men can do a y-dna test as well as an mtDNA
test. Women can only do mtDNA tests.

Armando

2011/8/4 Erlinda Castanon-Long

> DNA is father to son only... MTDNA is mother to daughter only..
> Linda in B.C.
>
> From: "chavagure@yahoo.com.mx"
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Sent: Thursday, August 4, 2011 8:03 AM
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Gutierrez de Hermosillo
>
> Hola Sergio:
>
> Creo que es imposible saber el ADN de los apellidos de los Alteños, en lo
> personal soy Gutierrez Reynoso, mis antepasados se fueron de Jalos a Lagos
> de Moreno en 1730 aprox, de ahí se casaron muchas veses con Gonzalez de
> Ruvalcaba, tambien De Anda Altamirano, Padilla de San Juan de Los Lagos,
> Olivares de San Juan ,Hernandes Gamiño etc, etc, por ultimo mi padre se caso
> con una Reynoso de San Miguel el Alto, susede que el antepasado mas antiguo
> de los Reynoso que tengo , Sebastian de Reynoso , se caso con Francisca
> Gutierrez de Hermosillo , hermana de

Comentario

I had forgotten that men can have the MTDNA too..
thank you.. Linda in B.C.

From: Armando
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thursday, August 4, 2011 1:47 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Gutierrez de Hermosillo

mtDNA is also mother to son. Men can do a y-dna test as well as an mtDNA
test. Women can only do mtDNA tests.

Armando

2011/8/4 Erlinda Castanon-Long

> DNA is father to son only... MTDNA is mother to daughter only..
> Linda in B.C.
>
> From: "chavagure@yahoo.com.mx"
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Sent: Thursday, August 4, 2011 8:03 AM
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Gutierrez de Hermosillo
>
> Hola Sergio:
>
> Creo que es  imposible saber el ADN de los apellidos de los Alteños, en lo
> personal soy Gutierrez Reynoso, mis antepasados se fueron de Jalos a Lagos
> de Moreno en 1730 aprox, de ahí se casaron muchas veses con Gonzalez de
> Ruvalcaba, tambien De Anda Altamirano, Padilla de San Juan de Los Lagos,
> Olivares de San Juan ,Hernandes Gamiño etc, etc

Comentario

Salvador,

El ADN-Y se cambia poco a través de las generaciones y solo se pasa de hijo
a hijo, como lo explicó Linda. Los primero 12 marcadores da el haplogrupo a
que pertenece uno. En el caso de R1b eso fue alrededor de hace 20 mil años.
Los del subclado R1b1a2 (R-M269) son descendientes de alguien del haplogrupo
R1b y surgió hace 10 mil años. Así que los primeros 12 marcadores de ADN-Y
tuyos deben ser muy parecidos a los de Sergio y son del R1b. No tiene nada
que ver con quienes habían casado tus ancestros por tu linea paterna. El
ADN-Y de los Reynoso es de ellos. El ADN-Y de los González de Ruvalcaba es
de ellos y etc. No hay que confundir esto con los genes de uno. En eso si
tiene que ver quienes eran los ancestros de uno y nos da nuestras
características físicas, personalidad, habilidades y etc Sugiero que hagas
un análisis, para que veas tus propios resultados y como comparan con demás
personas de los Altos y el mundo, en el proyecto de Mexico en FamilyTreeDNA
http://www

Comentario

Sebastian Reynoso is hijo del Capitan Francisco Reynoso y Josefa Renteria. Francisco es hijo de otro Francisco Reynoso y Mariana Padilla Davila Mesa. Este Francisco es hijo de Juan reynoso y Maria de San Pedro. Juan es hijo de Diego Reynoso y Catarina Gutierrez. Despues te mando mas informacion.
Saludos primo
R A Ricci.
------Original Message------
From: chavagure@yahoo.com.mx
Sender: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
ReplyTo: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Gutierrez de Hermosillo
Sent: Aug 4, 2011 8:03 AM

Hola Sergio:

Creo que es imposible saber el ADN de los apellidos de los Alteños, en lo personal soy Gutierrez Reynoso, mis antepasados se fueron de Jalos a Lagos de Moreno en 1730 aprox, de ahí se casaron muchas veses con Gonzalez de Ruvalcaba, tambien De Anda Altamirano, Padilla de San Juan de Los Lagos, Olivares de San Juan ,Hernandes Gamiño etc, etc, por ultimo mi padre se caso con una Reynoso de San

Comentario

Hola Salvador,
Primeramente, los marcadores de y-ADN se transmite de padre a hijo. Si tu llegas a un Gutierrez de Hermosillo a traves de una mujer entonces tu no tienes el marcador de los Gtz de Hermosillo, tiene que ser por tu papa, abuelo paterno..etc.

En el siglo XVII hubo por lo menos dos familias que utilizaron el apellido Gutierrez de Hermosillo, al que yo pertenezco (descendientes de la pareja Miguel Gutierrez Rubio y Leonor de Hermosillo) y los descendientes de Miguel Gutierrez de Hermosillo hijo de Juan Gonzalez de Hermosillo (II) y Ana Gonzalez Florida (II). Miguel Gutierrez de Hermosillo es sobrino carnal de Miguel Gutierrez Rubio porque su mama es hermana de el. El sobrino casa en Lagos de Moreno, ahorito no tengo mis datos para darte con quien y en que fecha se caso. Si tu apellido de Gutierrez de Hermosillo proviene de este Miguel que casa en Lagos, entonces el marcador y-dna es de Gonzalez de Hermosillo y no de Gutierrez de Hermosillo. Ojala que me entiendas.

Saludos

Comentario

Hola Ricardo:

Esto es una excelente noticia. Ojala esto provoca a mas personas de los
Altos hacer un análisis de su ADN. ¿Cuales González son Rubalcava y cuales
son Hermosillo? ¿Los de Unión de San Antonio son los González son Rubalcava?
¿Piensas poner la región de donde era el patriarca de cada apellido? Por
ejemplo los González de Rubalcava eran de Liérganes, Cantabria y los
González de Hermosillo eran de Hermosilla, Burgos, Castilla y León.

Tienes a un Moreno de Unión de San Antonio. ¿Se sabe si es descendiente de
los Moreno de Ortega?

¿Hay forma de agregar resultados de ysearch a cada prueba de ADN para no
tener que apuntar los marcadores individuales a ysearch?

Saludos,
Armando

On Thu, Jul 28, 2011 at 1:53 PM, Rick Rodriguez wrote:

> Hola a todos,
>
> Ya he subido algunos de los resultados de ADN de las muestras que se
> tomaron aquí en Los Altos de Jalisco. El sitio al que los subí es
> www.losaltosdejalisco.mx/adn para los interesados. Estaré actualizando el
> sitio en

Comentario

Jiji, yo soy descendiente de varios de esos, pero aun no me hago la prueba
de ADN!

2011/7/28 Armando

> Hola Ricardo:
>
> Esto es una excelente noticia. Ojala esto provoca a mas personas de los
> Altos hacer un análisis de su ADN. ¿Cuales González son Rubalcava y cuales
> son Hermosillo? ¿Los de Unión de San Antonio son los González son
> Rubalcava?
> ¿Piensas poner la región de donde era el patriarca de cada apellido? Por
> ejemplo los González de Rubalcava eran de Liérganes, Cantabria y los
> González de Hermosillo eran de Hermosilla, Burgos, Castilla y León.
>
> Tienes a un Moreno de Unión de San Antonio. ¿Se sabe si es descendiente de
> los Moreno de Ortega?
>
> ¿Hay forma de agregar resultados de ysearch a cada prueba de ADN para no
> tener que apuntar los marcadores individuales a ysearch?
>
> Saludos,
> Armando
>
> On Thu, Jul 28, 2011 at 1:53 PM, Rick Rodriguez >wrote:
>
> > Hola a todos,
> >
> > Ya he subido algunos de los resultados de ADN de las muestras que se
> >

Comentario

Me sorprende mucho que los Jimenez sean de origen amerindio, la verdad yo he investigado la línea de los Jimenez y toda la línea hasta el primer español que era Antonio Jimenez Urraca, eran De Origen español yo creo que la persona q se hiso el estudio genético no era descendiente de los Jimenez de Castro , hay que tomar en cuenta que los sirvientes y esclavos tomaban el apellido de su amo, por lo que este estudio no es tan fidedigno

Comentario

Bueno, esta línea es de los Jiménez de Mendoza. Además, el haplogrupo Q no nada más es nativo americano, también se encuentra con mucha frecuencia en el mediterráneo y sus alrededores. Está muy vinculado con el haplogrupo K (M9), que es de origen euroasiático.

R. Rodríguez

Comentario

Si pero hasta donde yo se también los Jimenez de Mendoza son de Origen español,, y pues tienes razón que no todos este grupo es ameriindio, pero yo creo que es algo muy bueno este estudio que presentas de DNA , pero como dije anteriormente el apellido no es necesariamente del origen étnico al que maneja don Mariano Leal en su libro Retoños de la nueva España , por que como comente los sirvientes y los esclavos se ponían el apellido de su amo, por lo que un dasendiente de un esclavo puede apehidarse Jimenez de Mendoza pero sus genes serian africanos no?, de todos modos se me hace muy interesante tu aportación y te felicito

Comentario

La persona de apellido Jiménez que se hizo el análisis de ADN tiene comprobado su linaje con documentos hasta NICOLÁS JIMÉNEZ, genearca de los Jiménez de Mendoza. Por supuesto que los documentos, aunque sí rastrean los apellidos, no hacen lo mismo con el ADN. Hasta no encontrar a otra persona con el linaje comprobado de los Jiménez de Mendoza que se haya hecho el análisis de ADN y comparar sus resultados, no se podría saber con certeza (y quizás ni aun así), si el origen genético de este apellido es nativo o europeo.

El que una persona sea de haplogrupo Q no significa con certeza total que sea nativo americano o español. Hay muchas personas de origen español que pertenecen al haplogrupo Q. Sabemos muy poco de los orígenes de NICOLÁS JIMÉNEZ para establecer definitivamente su origen, ya que muchas personas con ascendencia paterna española, entre las cuales me encuentro yo, descendemos de españoles del sur y centro de España, regiones con vastos orígenes mediterráneos y euroasiáticos

Comentario

Esta respuesta es para todos que les interesa saber mas sobre el haplogrupo
Q en Europa. Esto respalda lo que ha dicho Ricardo.

En la página http://www.iberianroots.com/statistics/iberian_peninsula.htmlhay
6 personas ADN Q-M242 entre 3561 que hicieron un análisis de ADN y una
sola persona de Q-P36.2 entre las mismas 3561 personas. Eso viene siendo
0.17% y 0.03% respectivamente en la península ibérica. Eso nos dice que si
hay españoles del haplogrupo Q, como lo ha dicho Ricardo, aunque de muy bajo
porcentaje. Los Jimenez de Mendoza pueden ser parientes muy lejanos de
ellos.

En http://jashan.org/genographic hay varios de origen europeo, algunos según
con ascendencia documentada, con ADN del haplogrupo Q.

En ysearch hay 4 personas de origen europeo que pertenecen al haplogrupo Q.
http://www.ysearch.org/haplosearch_results.asp?uid=&haplo=Q&region=WE&s…

Comentario

Hola José,

El estudio es totalmente fidedigno porque todos tienen derecho de tener sus
resultados de análisis de ADN puesto en linea con su apellido legal. Si hay
personas que comparten un mismo apellido pero con diferentes resultados de
ADN el que es de ascendencia española no tiene patente sobre el apellido.
Parece, lo que has hecho es suponer que Ricardo quiso concentrar en los
fundadores españoles de los Altos y no creo que es así porque el mismo ha
dicho que deberíamos también estudiar nuestras raíces indígenas. Un estudio
realmente fidedigna del ADN de los Altos de Jalisco va a incluir a todos los
habitantes y no excluir a algunos por no ser de cierto grupo. Lo que no
seria fidedigna es que afirmara que es descendiente de algún fundador sin
tener todos los registros de sus ancestros. Ahora, aun teniendo esos
registros pueden salir sorpresas y por eso debería probar a varias personas
con el mismo apellido y con todos sus ancestros documentados que son primos
cercanos y lejanos

Comentario

Estimado compañeros,

Los Jiménez de Mendoza son españoles, está probado muy bien. Entre González Leal, Holcombe, yo y tantos investigadores que han estudiado la genealogía alteña. En efecto, no existe vínculo entre los Jiménez de Castro y los Jiménez de Mendoza. Es muy probable el quuien se hizo el estudio falsificó su genealogía para remotar a ambas familias. Sin embargo, si era normal para los amos y dueños daban sus apellidos a los esclavos y sirvientes cuando no tuvieron apellido. Pero esto no dice que descienda de la familia por sangre.

Daniel Méndez Camino

Comentario

Señores,

Debido a la ignorancia en el tema de algunas personas que han comentado, de
aquí en adelante me desistiré de aportar contenido acerca de la genética. Es
realmente un insulto a mi persona y a mis años de investigación que alguien
siquiera insinúe que he falsificado estudios genealógicos para encontrar
vínculos inexistentes con ciertas familias alteñas. Se debe de estar
orgulloso de las raíces de las cuales provenimos todos los alteños, sean
indígenas, africanas, europeas, católicas, judías o de cualquier otro
origen; todas forman parte de lo que somos, negarlo es negarse a uno mismo.
Si no son capaces de diferenciar entre la genealogía y la genética, les
sugiero a estas personas que no comenten nada más por hacerlo, y que se
informen bien antes de aportar sus dos centavos.

Armando, gracias por tu anterior contestación, al parecer tú si sabes de lo
que estoy hablando.

Si a alguien le interesa una verdadera conversación acerca de la genética
alteña, siéntanse libres de

Comentario

Rick,
 
Estoy de acuerdo con lo que has dicho. No debemos cambiar los datos, son lo que son!!
 
Alicia,
San Jose, Ca

From: Rick Rodriguez
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Friday, July 29, 2011 1:12 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] ADN de Los Altos de

Señores,

Debido a la ignorancia en el tema de algunas personas que han comentado, de
aquí en adelante me desistiré de aportar contenido acerca de la genética. Es
realmente un insulto a mi persona y a mis años de investigación que alguien
siquiera insinúe que he falsificado estudios genealógicos para encontrar
vínculos inexistentes con ciertas familias alteñas. Se debe de estar
orgulloso de las raíces de las cuales provenimos todos los alteños, sean
indígenas, africanas, europeas, católicas, judías o de cualquier otro
origen; todas forman parte de lo que somos, negarlo es negarse a uno mismo.
Si no son capaces de diferenciar entre la genealogía y la genética, les
sugiero a estas personas que no comenten nada más por hacerlo, y

Comentario

Juan Francisco Sanchez Alvarez

Lo que comenta nuestro amigo Rick Rodriguez es cierto, hay que diferenciar un estudio genealogico por medio de documentos y archivos antiguos que por cierto contienen muchos errores, de un estudio genetico de ADN que utiliza un metodo cientifico que no esta exento de "errores".

Estos estudios se complementan y aclara ciertas dudas que todos tenemos. Yo invito a Rick a que reconsidere su desicion y que continue con sus comentarios que a mi en lo particular se me hacen muy interesantes.

Recordemos que siempre hay una oposicion a lo nuevo. Yo por momento no tengo vinculos cercanos con los Altos de Jalisco e invito a todos los que no se han hecho su analisis de ADN para que lo hagan, es una vista al pasado de miles de años, tambien los prevengo de que los analisis de ADN estan en pañales en varios haplogrupos y hay ramas que aun no han sido descubiertas, como en mi caso soy R1b1a2a1a1b* y mi shorthand es p-312+ y negativo para todos los demas analisis

Comentario

Hola Armando,

Todavía no sé si el Moreno de Unión de San Antonio sea de los Moreno de Ortega, no he hecho la investigación, pero lo más probable es que sí lo sea. De los que sí he hecho la investigación genealógica ya puse en el sitio de qué linaje son. Deja nada más me familiarizo con el software y le iré agregando más información. Gracias por las sugerencias.

Estamos en contacto,

Saludos.

R. Rodríguez

Missing documents

Thank you, thank you, thank you to Jaime Alvarado. I had been searching various records for that baptism for some time. How were you able to find it so easily? Very greatful.

What does Indio de tabla mean?

I checking Talpa de Allende baptism records and found most likely the last entry I will find for this family but on the name it will either say Espanol(a) or Yndio de tabla.

Comentarios

Comentario

Ayer leí tu pregunta y estaba esperando a que alguien colocara una respuesta porque la verdad es que nunca había oído o visto el término en las actas o en algún otro sitio.

Creo que podría facilitar la investigación si haces referencia a algún acta donde se pueda leer el término, más de una sería mejor. Creo que tenga algo que ver con aquellos indios que se encontraban en la lista de los que ya habían pagado el diezmo o algo así, pero esto es sólo una suposición. De cualquier manera estaré pendiente de la respuesta o por si encuentro algo sobre el tema.

Jorge Elias
Miami, FL

Comentario

Hola y gracias por contestar. Pensé que nadie iba a contestar mi pregunta o que no lo hice correcto. Bueno pues te voy a mandar el link pero resulta que no es la persona correcta que buscaba. Ya me pique con esto de la genealogía. Debería de estar buscando parientes de mi lado pero como mucha de la información que encontré tiene índices y Haci como no voy a parar de un lado y moverme para el otra, verdad?

Mira, encontré en Talpa de Allende 1807-1823 Bautizos. Aquí tienes el link.

https://familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.familysear…

Talpa de Allende tiene Índices de Bautizos,

https://familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.familysear…

Que bonito, verdad. Todo se puede leer. Gracias

Anisabel

Comentario

Verdad que es interesante el tema de la clasificación que hacen los documentos coloniales sobre la raza de los parroquianos. En un primero momento pensé que se pudiera tratar de aquellos indios que habían pagado impuesto y se encontraban en alguna tabla, censo o padrón como se le llamaba entonces, pero la verdad que no creo que sea apropiada esa interpretación. Tratándose de los primeros años del siglo XIX creo que el término pueda hacer referencia a indios "puros" de alguna manera. A principios del siglo XIX era más difícil distinguir entre las primitivas naciones con las que se formaron los pueblos y encomiendas de indios que se mezclaron entre sí y con los tlaxcaltecas que servían de "madrinas" en la educación agrícola y artesanal de los nuevos pueblos, además había muchos mestizos y toda su gama racial. Creo que se pudiera estar haciendo referencia al indio aunque fuese fruto de varias naciones indias pero ya no era posible llamarlo "cadima", "rayado", "borrado", "tlaxcalteca",

I need help with confusing marriage record/de la Torre-Romero

I am thoroughly confused by the marriage record of my ggrandfather Jose de la Torre to my ggrandmother Maria Elena Romero. They were married Feb.

Comentarios

Comentario

    record/de la    Torre-Romero
Message-ID: 5D6C4EEB-793B-46EB-9865-B52EF8646EB9@earthlink.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252

I am thoroughly confused by the marriage record of my ggrandfather Jose de la Torre to my ggrandmother Maria Elena Romero.  They were married Feb. 4, 1880 in San Francisco de Asis, Tepatitlan de Morelos, Jalisco.  The record can be found in the 1876-1881 Matrimonios, image 329, bottom right side in FamilySearch.org.  It states that Jose de la Torre is the widower of Feliciana Romero.  In his marriage record to Feliciana Romero, his parents are recorded as Antonio de la Torre and Carmen Padilla.  In his marriage record to Elena Romero, his parents are recorded as Dionicio Martin and Paula Saldana.  Who are Dionicio Martin and Paula Saldana?  What don?t I understand?  Will someone who can read Spanish please explain what I am missing?
Thank you for your help.

Linda Romero
romero89@earthlink.net

 
Respuesta:
 
Hola Linda, espero puedas leer mi

Comentario

Your translation is correct. I would research the first marriage and his baptism since he was 49 years old in 1880. The mentioned parents seem to be a mistake only if they are different than the birth/Baptismal certificate or the information of the first marriage. The padrinos and one witnesses are also de la torre and may be related.

Good Luck

Miguel A Gutierrez

> Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2011 17:28:40 -0700
> From: adrianmapa50@yahoo.com.mx
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] I need help with confusing marriage record/de la Torre-Romero
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2011 17:35:08 -0500
> From: Linda
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] I need help with confusing marriage
> record/de la Torre-Romero
> Message-ID: 5D6C4EEB-793B-46EB-9865-B52EF8646EB9@earthlink.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
>
> I am thoroughly confused by the marriage record of my ggrandfather Jose de la Torre to my

Comentario

Linda,

Check out this link (bottom right corner) and the following two on the site.
This should clarify your question. Let me know what you think.

https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.family…
h.org/records/pal%3A/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18570-63226-31%3Fcc%3D1874591%26wc%3D11128
916

R. Rodríguez

-----Mensaje original-----
De: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] En nombre de Linda
Enviado el: miércoles, 03 de agosto de 2011 5:35 PM
Para: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Asunto: [Nuestros Ranchos] I need help with confusing marriage record/de la
Torre-Romero

I am thoroughly confused by the marriage record of my ggrandfather Jose de
la Torre to my ggrandmother Maria Elena Romero. They were married Feb. 4,
1880 in San Francisco de Asis, Tepatitlan de Morelos, Jalisco. The record
can be found in the 1876-1881 Matrimonios, image 329, bottom right side in
FamilySearch.org. It states that Jose de la Torre is

No son los mismos---General Digest, Vol 67, Issue 1

Always be inquisitive when told, "No son los mismos." I heard this when I began researching my three Gutierrez lines in Jalostotitlan & San Juan de los Lagos, Jalisco.

Comentarios

Comentario

Hi, I am also researching Romo lines from Jalostotitlan

Domingo Romo (1910-2005) > Married: Augustina Martinez (1912-2000)
Father: Refugio Romo (abt 1880) > Married: Trinida Mora (abt 1880)

Augustina Martinez Father: Cipriano Martinez (1849-1920)
Mother: Gregoria Llamas (abt 1855)

Also Micaela Romo Martinez (1941) Married to Enemorio Jauregui (Delgadillo)(1938)

Any help would be appreciated.

Judy Rodriguez Jauregui (Rancho Cucamonga, CA)

Comentario

Do you have  M. Cresencia  or Cresenciana Gutirrez or a felix Gutierres on your
family tree.  (or variations of the spelling)They are both from the area. So are
Felipe and Francisco. Let me know.
WHo is your relative?
Ruth Olivar Millan

________________________________
From: "Gomezlucero, Irma"
To: "general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org"
Sent: Tue, August 2, 2011 4:33:22 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] No son los mismos---General Digest, Vol 67,
Issue 1

Always be inquisitive when told, "No son los mismos."  I heard this when I began
researching my three Gutierrez lines in Jalostotitlan & San Juan de los Lagos,
Jalisco.  I tied them all back to the same ancestor.  My father told me the same
thing when I began researching my Gomez line (same area), and kept running into
others.  I tied those in too.  Now I'm researching my cousin's 2 Romo lines: one
from Jalostotitlan (which I share as well) and the other which is suppose to be
from San Luis Potosi--what a surprise, I'm

Comentario

Gracias Irma,
 
That's exactly what I'm doing in my database. I'm documenting all the Olmos within the region and as I said in an earlier post, I've expanded to Teocaltiche and Villa Hidalgo Jalisco.
 
Nochistlan is right on the border with Jalisco and just recently  I was provided with some family lore. They said that during the War of Los Cristeros, some of the family members fled to Paso de Sotos, which is now Villa Hidalgo because they were aiding the Church and they fled to avoid persecution from the Government factions.
 
The search continues.
 
Alicia,
San Jose, Ca

From: "Gomezlucero, Irma"
To: "general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org"
Sent: Tuesday, August 2, 2011 4:33 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] No son los mismos---General Digest, Vol 67, Issue 1

Always be inquisitive when told, "No son los mismos."  I heard this when I began researching my three Gutierrez lines in Jalostotitlan & San Juan de los Lagos, Jalisco.  I tied them all back to the same ancestor.  My father

Land deeds, and Birth records...

In my family there are various stories of how ancestors had much land and cattle, and my grandfathers talk about their ancestors' land deeds on property (los papeles de los terrenos), or even sometime

Comentarios

Comentario

You can usually find these types of documents in the Ayuntamiento of the city or Notarias
for more modern cases possibly post 1865 with the reforms. For older cases the Archdiocesis
examples like Archdiocesis of Guadalajara under Tierra y Aguas.

I recently found out my mother's ancestor Pedro de Oviedo owned Hacienda La Labor (32.000 hectareas)
near Calvillo, Ags. From 1838 to the 1890s when they sold it. He had bought it for 20,000 pesos, at the same
time he bought from the Lopez Pimentel the Casa del Vinculo, which is used today as the government building
of Aguascalientes. The family sold it to the government sometime after 1850.

Stuff is out there you just need to hunt it down. I recently realized genealogy is not diffucult it just takes
time to build its momentum and patience.

Daniel Méndez Camino

Late nights

I read with such amusement the remarks made by fellow researchers on surprises, bewilderment, encouragement coming from their search.

Comentarios

Comentario

I'm glad to hear I am not the only one who falls asleep on the keyboard, and even in bed, I will hear a voice saying "look in---" and I will find some ancestor that I have been looking for.

Emilie
Port Orchard, WA

> To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: windmillbb@aol.com
> Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2011 20:57:21 -0700
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Late nights
>
> I read with such amusement the remarks made by fellow researchers on surprises, bewilderment, encouragement coming from their search. Some late, late nights I sit here with my head bobbing close to the keyboard and thinking "I am so tired and I have no clue where to go next" and all of a sudden there on the screen is something I was looking for or a lead as to where to look! That's when I can clearly hear my great-grandfather telling me, "Mijita, busca poquito mas, aqui estamos." I sure wake up quickly! You serious researchers know what I mean. Keep looking! The info is just around the corner!

Comentario

Hang in there guys. I broke through one of my brick walls last Tuesday at 2am.

George's email is great considering he's looked for a Alejandra Saldana for
almost 30 years! Wow!

Alicia,

I also have an Olmos in my lineage from Nochistlan/Tlachichila. Maybe we can
collaborate on this one as well.

Juan Aguayo

------ Original Message ------
Received: 12:00 AM PDT, 08/01/2011
From: Alicia Carrillo
To: "general@nuestrosranchos.org"
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Late nights

I need one of these late night surprises. I've been searching for the birth of
my elusive GG grandfather Prudencio Olmos Esparza.
 
 Prudencio Olmos who's children were born in Nochistlan had two families, the
first and smallest family with my GG grandmother Juana de Jauregui and the
second family was with his mistress, Maria Sigala. He and Juana de Jauregui
were married in Nochistlan Zac on 14 Jan, 1857. In the marriage record it says
his parents were Juan Olmos and Eulogia Esparza. Prudencio had two other

Comentario

It is ironic to have received this e-mail today .... I just found Alejandra Saldana, late last night (I was working until almost 3 AM!), for whom my wife and I have searching since October 1983!

George

-----Original Message-----
From: windmillbb
To: general
Sent: Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:57 pm
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Late nights

I read with such amusement the remarks made by fellow researchers on surprises,

bewilderment, encouragement coming from their search. Some late, late nights I

sit here with my head bobbing close to the keyboard and thinking "I am so tired

and I have no clue where to go next" and all of a sudden there on the screen is

something I was looking for or a lead as to where to look! That's when I can

clearly hear my great-grandfather telling me, "Mijita, busca poquito mas, aqui

estamos." I sure wake up quickly! You serious researchers know what I mean.

Keep looking! The info is just around the corner!

Comentario

I need one of these late night surprises. I've been searching for the birth of my elusive GG grandfather Prudencio Olmos Esparza.
 
 Prudencio Olmos who's children were born in Nochistlan had two families, the first and smallest family with my GG grandmother Juana de Jauregui and the second family was with his mistress, Maria Sigala. He and Juana de Jauregui were married in Nochistlan Zac on 14 Jan, 1857. In the marriage record it says his parents were Juan Olmos and Eulogia Esparza. Prudencio had two other siblings, Antonio Olmos Esparza and Alejandra Olmos Esparza.
 
 I have the marriage records for the 3 siblings, Purdencio, Antonio and Maria Alejandra but I haven't been able to find the birth records for any of them  so I'm not sure where they were from because it doesn't appear that they were born in Nochistlan Zac. I've begun the search in Villa Hidalgo and Teocaltiche Jalisco where there are many Olmos but I haven't been able to find them.............at least not YET??
 
This is

Comentario

Alicia I had the same information from family when I started researching Castanon in Jerez, Zacatecas.  I was told there were two Castanon lines in el Durazno but they were not related.. one lived in upper and the other in lower el Durazno.. research proved both lines decended from Ylario Castanon 100 years before. My gr-grandfather said that poverty was the cause of ignorance but I find it amazing how they know they need dispensations for blood lines going back 4 and 5 generations when they don't remember the given names but know they are related.  Oral history was an amazing thing. 
 
I'm working on marriage information records for 1852 and only 1 in abt 50 knows how to read and write.
keep searching, we all know we don't do this work alone and the ancestors are waiting to be remembered and reclaimed and no doubt wake us in the middle of the night with a clue even when we don't understand it.
Linda in B.C.

From: Alicia Carrillo
To: "general@nuestrosranchos.org"
Sent: Sunday

Nicolas GARSIA y Maria de San Juan VILLALPANDO/BELASCO/TRILLO

Nicolas GARSIA y Maria de San Juan VILLALPANDO had another daughter, Rosalia, who was married 17 Jun 1761 to Francisco Xavier GUSMAN y PRADO.

Comentarios

Comentario

Gloria--

Thank you so much for this information. So that is four children we know of now for Nicolas Garcia and Maria SnJuan Villalpando. I am hoping that their marriage record will pop up someday.

Emilie
Port Orchard, WA

> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: gloriad@jps.net
> Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2011 22:11:32 -0700
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Nicolas GARSIA y Maria de San Juan VILLALPANDO/BELASCO/TRILLO
>
> Nicolas GARSIA y Maria de San Juan VILLALPANDO had another daughter, Rosalia, who was married 17 Jun 1761 to Francisco Xavier GUSMAN y PRADO. See film in Ags Ags Sagrario Matrimonios 1759-1765, Image 137. Francisco Xavier GUZMAN y PRADO, español, hl de Nicolas de GUZMAN y PRADO y Maria de Jesus ALBARES Tostado, difunta; viudo de Ynes Guadalupe VALDES; con Rosalia Emerenciana GARSIA, esp, hl de Nicolas GARSIA y Maria de San Juan VILLALPANDO
>
> Gloria Delgado

Unqualified posting

I am very disappointed that Lorraine Artinger
was able to post 3 unidentified entries which
are actually advertising and not related to
genealogy.

Comentarios

Comentario

I am disappointed as well. Sometimes members have their email addresses
hijacked and these messages go through. If any message ever comes to you
from the group with no subject and just a link assume the worst and just
delete. Never open the link.

Also please email me directly at joseph@nuestrosranchos.org and let me
know ASAP about these spam messages. I'm here to help but I'm just a
single person and to put it simply "I missed them"

I have suspended Lorraine Artinger's email privileges

I want to thanks Nancy Perez for bringing this to my attention. I hope
others will take the example and email me directly if you notice
something amiss in the group. I need help monitoring the discussion.

joseph

======================

Joseph Puentes
NoMeat@h2opodcast.com
http://h2opodcast.com/vsse.html (Vegan Environmental Solutions Podcast)
http://h2opodcast.com (Environmental Podcast)
http://h2opodcast.blogspot.com (Blog for above)
http://PleaseListenToYourMom.com (Women's Peace Podcast)

film records

Is Nuestros Ranchos aware that their FILMS are not available to us members for viewing ???

Jose Carlos de Leon

Comentarios

Comentario

I was talking about films on the Family Search website, not nuestros ranchos.  Sorry I forgot to clarify.

----- Original Message -----
From: josecarlos1944@hotmail.com
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Friday, July 29, 2011 5:40:14 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] film records

Is Nuestros Ranchos aware that their FILMS are not available to us members for viewing ???

Jose Carlos de Leon

Comentario

THE FILMS INS FAMILYSEARCH ARE AVAILABLE ON ON LINE AND FREE!!!!,

On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 5:17 PM, wrote:

> I was talking about films on the Family Search website, not nuestros
> ranchos. Sorry I forgot to clarify.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: josecarlos1944@hotmail.com
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Sent: Friday, July 29, 2011 5:40:14 PM
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] film records
>
> Is Nuestros Ranchos aware that their FILMS are not available to us members
> for viewing ???
>
> Jose Carlos de Leon

Comentario

The folks at familysearch.org are working hard to get more images of Mexican records online, though only a small percentage of them has been digitized so far. However, relevant information from many filmed records has been extracted and can be searched online. (Some volunteers here at Nuestros Ranchos recently formed a team that is extracting data from several parishes in Jalisco.)

In the next few years many more records from all over the world that the LDS has micofilmed over the past sixty years will be extracted and will be searchable online, and with luck, most record images will be online too. But for a few more years, most records will still only be viewable on microfilm.

The microfilms, by the way, are NOT free. FIlms may be ordered from the Family History Library in Salt Lake City for a 6 week loan at any Family History Center for $5.50 each, and can be used only at the FHC. Any film renewed twice, for $5.50 and 6 weeks each time, then remains on permanent loan at that

Need Help with Marriage Record for Jph. Cayetano Garcia

Can someone please help me read the marriage record for Jph Cayetano Garcia to Anna Cleta Calzada that took place in Encarnacion de Diaz, Jalisco on October 5, 1791 (image 142).

I think it s

Comentarios

Comentario

I am here again, yesterday I have a busy day, but at night, like a magic thing, I opened the Marriage Information book from Aguascalientes 1694. The first thing I Noticed was that the files were not ordered by date, starting in November or December … and I thought I will never find the record for Antonio Trillo and Mariana Villalpando. I select some random numbers to fill the page´s blank and “viola” the third one was the one for them. Image: 189

https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.family…

I would like to find the record of Nicolas García and María San Juan Velasco, Trillo or Villalpando, but nothing yet.

I am sending you attached part of the transcription of the information record. I did not transcribe the full text because is repetitive, but still I wrote the important details. There are some interesting facts: Antonio has a beautiful signature, whereas Mariana

Comentario

Jorge,

Thank you so much again for finding this information.

Yes, I was able to open the links you sent. I couldn't open them at first, but I got a message that I needed to download a compatability pack because you have the newer Microsoft Word 2007, and I have the old 2003.

Thank you so much for transcribing the records. I appreciate it very much.

Agradecida,

Emilie

> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: eliasjorge4@gmail.com
> Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2011 18:33:19 -0700
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Antonio Trillo y Mariana Villalpando
>
> I am here again, yesterday I have a busy day, but at night, like a magic thing, I opened the Marriage Information book from Aguascalientes 1694. The first thing I Noticed was that the files were not ordered by date, starting in November or December … and I thought I will never find the record for Antonio Trillo and Mariana Villalpando. I select some random numbers to fill the page´s blank and “viola” the third one was

Comentario

Jorge

I have also been troubled by the fact that the matrimonial investigations are in such a disarray. After going back and looking through the same volume more than once, I decided to create an index for them.

I have gone through the volumes through 1720, and have posted them on Nuestros Ranchos:

http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/18014

The lists gives the documents in chronological order. The lists are pdf files, and are searchable. But please note, that the names were recorded as spelled in the original document. For example, Garcia could be listed as Garsia or Garzia. The list will give the image number reference to the files as listed on Family Search.

The matrimonial investigations are not complete, and are not in order. Sometimes you will find a document that is years out of order. The link above will give you all the details.

You are welcome to download the files, and print them, but they are well over 200 pages.

I am working on the period after 1720, and will also

Comentario

Thank you so much for shearing it. I already download it and put it in my "library". It is really beautiful. I think you have invested lots of hours in it, but it is a great tool to work.

Thank you again for the information, I will read them, regards.

Jorge Elias
Miami, FL

Comentario

Le pido disculpa Jorge, ya que te mencioné en otro post como Elías pero ahora me di cuenta que es su apellido.

Estimado Jorge,

Mi línea de Trillo que he estudiado es lo siguiente:
D. Juan Manuel de Trillo bautizado en Aguascalientes el 2 de noviembre de 1695 y casado en el Sagrario de Aguascalientes el 12 de abril de 1723 con Da. Juana de Jesús Pérez-Gallo, dicha familia con sus orígenes en Bilbao, Vizcaya en País Vasco.

Juan Manuel era hijo de D. Antonio de Trillo y Da. Mariana de Villalpando, dichos casaron el 25 de julio de 1666 en Aguascalientes. Antonio era hijo de D. Felipe de Trillo patriarca y fundador de su linaje en México y Andrea Macías Valadés también parece como Castañeda. No tengo más de ellos. En efecto, Mariana de Villalpando era hija de D. Diego de Villalpando y Da. Isabel Lozano de Gardea.

Lozano de Gardea era apellido compuesto cuando los padres de Isabel casaron. D. Cristóbal Lozano y Da. Mariana López de Gardea, motivo para nombrar su nieta, Mariana de

Comentario

Hola Daniel no hay necesidad de pedir disculpas, a lo largo de mi vida me han dicho muchas veces Elias pensando que es mi nombre. Mi Tatarabuelo zacatecano se llamaba José Carmen y sus apellidos eran Elías Jaime. ¡Cuatro nombres para escoger!.

Muy interesante lo que dices sobre la familia Trillo. Lo que quiere decir que María San Juan era hermana de Juan Manuel de Trillo, no hemos podido encontrar su partida de nacimiento o tal vez pueda ser una de las que menciona Emilie, pero ¿de dónde provendrá lo de Belasco que le aparece en algunos documentos?

No había oído el apellido Gardea en un primer momento pensé que era García y transcribí el documento colocando García, pero después me percaté que era Gardea y además compuesto Lozano de Gardea. De ambas partes de mi genealogía, paterna y materna he encontrado apellidos compuestos, por el lado de mi padre el de Ruiz de Esparza y por el lado materno Rodrígez de Montemayor, pero mi tatarabuelo solo lo llevó de manera simplificada Rodrígiuez

Comentario

Hola, Daniel,

You had said that Dn. Felipe/Phelipe de Trillo was "patriarca y fundador de su linaje en Mexico" with parents born in Spain. Do you know who his parents were, and how to trace them in Spain?

Thanks,

Emilie
Port Orchard, WA

> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: eliasjorge4@gmail.com
> Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2011 18:56:25 -0700
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Hola Daniel, algo sobre María San Juan de Trillo
>
> Hola Daniel no hay necesidad de pedir disculpas, a lo largo de mi vida me han dicho muchas veces Elias pensando que es mi nombre. Mi Tatarabuelo zacatecano se llamaba José Carmen y sus apellidos eran Elías Jaime. ¡Cuatro nombres para escoger!.
>
> Muy interesante lo que dices sobre la familia Trillo. Lo que quiere decir que María San Juan era hermana de Juan Manuel de Trillo, no hemos podido encontrar su partida de nacimiento o tal vez pueda ser una de las que menciona Emilie, pero ¿de dónde provendrá lo de Belasco que le aparece en algunos documentos

Comentario

Hello Emily,

Yesterday I found the marriage information for Cayetano García and Theresa Ortiz. More details to analyse.

https://familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.familysear…

Even though there are some inconsistencies, could be the same Cayetano that years later get married to Anacleta.

Datos a favor:

a) Obviously his name and the name of his wife Teresa Ortiz,
b) the names of his parents except the second name of his mother Villalpando instead of Trillo,
c) his age 25 years
d) his mother is "difunta"

Datos en contra

a) Here he said he is from la Villa de Aguas Calientes in the other file he said he is "originario de esta Villa" (Encarnación).
b) the last name of his mother does not match.
b) He did not sign.

I think these three references do not discard the possibility that both are the same person.

If this Cayetano is the same person that years later get married to

Comentario

Jorge, again I thank you so much for your help in my research. It is hard for me to look through the images because of my poor eyesight and because I don't understand all the words in Spanish. I usually look for people in the index, and the Informacion Matrimonial doesn't have an index, I guess. Also, people back then in Mexico seemed to change their names like we change our socks. Every document, a different surname.

I agree that this Informacion Matrimonial is for my husband's ancestors.

In his marriage to Anna Cleta Calzada, he is called Jph. Calletano, and I think I found his baptism record under Pedro Cayetano Garcia Belasco who was baptized on May 11, 1738 (image 17) in El Sagrario, Aguascalientes, and was born "en esta Villa" on April 26, 1738. It lists his parents as Nicolas Garcia and Maria SnJuan Belasco. His padrinos were Br [?] Dn. Phelipe de Trillo and Da. Maria Gertrudis de Trillo. I am sure this is my husband's ancestor. But where does the Belasco come

Comentario

Hi Emily, This is a very interesting research for me. The second last name of my Mother is Garcia too, but Garcia is a frequent last name. My grandmother was from Montemorelos NL (a beautiful blond and blue eyes old lady, at least thus is the way as I remember her). I have been tracking her ancestors since almost two years and I could find that across her maternal line she was related to the founders of Guadalajara, but always selecting the maternal side. I need to do some DNA test and compare them with other people of the same branch to prove if my research is correct. But that is another story.

About the baptism record you fund I have some comments,

a) It is possible that this Pedro Cayetano is the same Joseph Cayetano, even though the date is a little old for ”our” Cayetano. I think could be him, or an older brother. I found in my genealogy that my 3 grand parents had 3 sons with the same name (the oldest died as a baby, but the other two reach adulthood in a little town in

Comentario

Jorge,

I am glad that you find my research interesting, because you are helping me a lot.

Yes, I wondered about the name Garcia being so common, and how I can trace it farther back, maybe even to the first one of my husband's ancestors who came to the new world from Spain. I was hoping they would use combined names such as Garcia de Noriega, Garcia de la Cadena, etc. but so far they only use the Garcia name.

In the Informacion Matrimonial I read for Cayetano, I read that his mother's parents were Antonio Trillo and Mariana Villalpando, and I found several children for them in the bautismos, but not one named Maria de San Juan. There is a Jua. Maria (female) born in 1712, so that may be her. They also had a son Phelipe (Felipe) so maybe he is the one who became a priest.

The parents of Antonio Trillo were Phelipe de Trillo and Andrea Balades. The parents of Mariana were Diego de Villalpando and Ysabel Lozano de Gardea.

I wondered if the "Br." was a title, now thanks to

Comentario

Calletano Garcia, según se ve en el informe matrimonial sabía escribir, pues firma su declaración Calletano Garcya. Algo muy poco común en la época. Era muy poca la gente que escribía a mediados del siglo XVIII. Definitivamente no puede ser hijo de la pareja de Colotlan, creo yo. Estudiar el documento completo, las declaraciones de la novia y los testigos sin duda le aportará datos nuevos muy interesantes.

Buena suerte,

Jorge Elias

Comentario

Hi Emilie,

Looking this other post I thinking the Indian couple Nicolas and Maria San Juan from Colotlan is not the same as the one parents of this Cayetano García. I do not know if you already found the file in the Marriage Information for Cayetano Garcia and Anacleta Calzada. There, the letter is more clear and comprehensible. It is in image 163 This is the direct link:

https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.family…

Jose Calletano Garcia Español Originario y Vecino de esta Villa de 46 años hijo legítimo de Nicolás García y de Maria San Juan de Trillo (ya difuntos) viudo de Teresa Ortiz

Anacleta Calzada española de 18 años de San Juan vecina de esta villa del Puesto de Santa María hija legítima de Matheo Calzada y Barbara Martin.

Buena Suerte and you are alright acaudalado means wealthy

Jorge Elías

Comentario

Jorge,

I am so happy to receive your e-mail here. No, I had not found the Informacion Matrimonial, only the Matrimonio. The Matrimonios are in the index, but the Informacion is not.

God Bless You! You have shown me six pages of information, with so many interesting facts, such as that Calletano was literate, at least he could sign his name! and no, now I know for sure the couple from Colotlan are not my husband's ancestors.

Another interesting fact I found in reading the declaraciones is that a witness Sevastian Gonzales was Anna Cleta's uncle and the grandfather of her daughter-in-law. Celletano and Anna Cleta had a son, Jose Maria Garcia who married Maria Gregoria Morones on June 10, 1818 in Encarnacion. Gregoria's mother was Ygnacia Gonzales, the daughter of Sevastian Gonzales!

Thank you again so much for the research you have done for me,

Muy agradecida,

Emilie

> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: eliasjorge4@gmail.com
> Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2011

Comentario

Emily, like you I am so grateful for the help and generosity of Ranchos members
to share and help each other.

Joseph and Arturo you set up a forum that has helped so many reclaim lost long
ancestors.
thank you
Linda in B.C.

________________________________
From: Emilie Garcia
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Sat, July 23, 2011 10:57:39 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Informe Matrimonial

Jorge,

I am so happy to receive your e-mail here.  No, I had not found the Informacion
Matrimonial, only the Matrimonio.  The Matrimonios are in the index, but the
Informacion is not.

God Bless You!  You have shown me six pages of information, with so many
interesting facts, such as that Calletano was literate, at least he could sign
his name!  and no, now I know for sure the couple from Colotlan are not my
husband's ancestors. 

Another interesting fact I found in reading the declaraciones is that a witness
Sevastian Gonzales was Anna Cleta's uncle and the grandfather of

Comentario

Hello Emilie,

You should look for the información matromonial to see if there is more info
there
https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.family…

The marriage document says:

...Jph Cayetano Garcia español originario y vecino de esta feligresía en Sta
Barbara hijo legitimo de Nicolas Garcia y de Maria de San Juan de ¿Tello? y
viudo de Teresa de Ortiz ha un año con Anna Cleta Calzada española
originaria de San Juan y vecina de esta feligresía ha cuatro años hija
legitima de Mateo Calzada y de Maria Barbara de la ?...
https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.family…

Anna Cleta Calzada was born 03 Aug 1772 in San Juan but is described as
india in that document
https://familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.familysear…

Cayetano Garcia and Teresa Ortiz were married 29

Comentario

Armando---thank you so much for doing that extra research for me. I feel I am hitting the jackpot here with everyone's help.

Emilie

> Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2011 17:19:44 -0500
> From: fandemma@gmail.com
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Need Help with Marriage Record for Jph. Cayetano Garcia
>
> Hello Emilie,
>
> You should look for the información matromonial to see if there is more info
> there
> https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.family…
>
> The marriage document says:
>
> ...Jph Cayetano Garcia español originario y vecino de esta feligresía en Sta
> Barbara hijo legitimo de Nicolas Garcia y de Maria de San Juan de ¿Tello? y
> viudo de Teresa de Ortiz ha un año con Anna Cleta Calzada española
> originaria de San Juan y vecina de esta feligresía ha cuatro años hija
> legitima de Mateo Calzada y de Maria Barbara de la ?...
> https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri

Comentario

Hello Emilie,

I have typed what my old eyes see for you.

... Joseph Cayetano Garcia Español originario y vecino de esta feligresia en Santa Barbara Hijo lexitimo de Nicolas Garcia y de Maria de San Juan de Trillo y viudo de Thereza Ortis ha[ce] un año con Anna Cleta Calzada española originaria de San Juan y vecina de esta Feligresia ha[ce] quatro años hija lexitima de Matheo Calzada y de Maria Barbara de [So Mayor ?] ...

I think that the Sta. Maria in the margin refer to where the bride lives now. Hope this helps.

David from Albany, CA

-----Original Message-----
>From: Emilie Garcia
>Sent: Jul 19, 2011 1:54 AM
>To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
>Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Need Help with Marriage Record for Jph. Cayetano Garcia
>
>
>
>Can someone please help me read the marriage record for Jph Cayetano Garcia to Anna Cleta Calzada that took place in Encarnacion de Diaz, Jalisco on October 5, 1791 (image 142).
>
>I think it says he was from Santa Barbara (and Santa Maria?), and

Comentario

David---thank you so much. I appreciate it; now I can make more sense of it and now I know his widow's name and when she died.

Emilie

> Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2011 14:50:57 -0700
> From: dpdelgado@jps.net
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Need Help with Marriage Record for Jph. Cayetano Garcia
>
> Hello Emilie,
>
> I have typed what my old eyes see for you.
>
> ... Joseph Cayetano Garcia Español originario y vecino de esta feligresia en Santa Barbara Hijo lexitimo de Nicolas Garcia y de Maria de San Juan de Trillo y viudo de Thereza Ortis ha[ce] un año con Anna Cleta Calzada española originaria de San Juan y vecina de esta Feligresia ha[ce] quatro años hija lexitima de Matheo Calzada y de Maria Barbara de [So Mayor ?] ...
>
> I think that the Sta. Maria in the margin refer to where the bride lives now. Hope this helps.
>
> David from Albany, CA
>
> -----Original Message-----
> >From: Emilie Garcia
> >Sent: Jul 19, 2011 1:54 AM
> >To: research

Author Victor Villasenor is From Arandas

Hopefully, some of you have heard of Victor Villasenor, the writer who was
nominated for a Pulitzer two times. He wrote Rain of Gold, Burro Genius, and
many other critically acclaimed books.

Comentarios

Comentario

I was just looking at Victor Villasenor's website and saw that he posted that
Rain of Gold is going to be a miniseries on HBO and should air in 2012. He also
said a Mexican television station wants to air it on the 100th anniversary of
the Mexican Revolution. Also, just a reminder to those interested in Victor's
books that Wild Steps of Heaven is the one about his father's family who was
from Arandas.

http://victorvillasenor.com/blog/

Comentario

I agree with Ricardo.....

Juan Rulfo is a definite read for those interested. I really enjoyed the short
stories in his book El Llano en llamas. I believe there are 17 short stories
in this book. When I did a little research on him a few years ago I realized
that Juan Rulfo is most likely related to my wife via his maternal
grandmother. Apulco, Jalisco is a small town and was most likely a quite a bit
smaller in the early 1900s. Today I noticed that more Jalisco records are
available online including Apulco, so I'll try to see how my wife and he are
related.

Saludos,
Juan Aguayo

------ Original Message ------
Received: 02:51 PM PDT, 07/19/2011
From: "Rick Rodriguez"
To:
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Author Victor Villasenor is From Arandas

Hi Alice,

I definitely need to read his books! The style I'm referring to is kind of
Juan Rulfo's style, fun, it’s narrative, entertaining, descriptive so you
don't want to put down the book until you finish reading it.

R. Rodríguez

Comentario

Rick,

I know for certain Rain of Gold is published in Spanish because I have a copy of
Lluvia de Oro, but I don't know about his other books. Also, Victor seems very
proud of his Los Altos roots, so it seems fitting that Los Altos recognizes him.
He said in one of his recent books, Crazy Loco Love, that everybody he ever met
with the last name Villasenor turned out to be his relative. Also, what is this
Alteno writing style you are referring to?

Thanks,

Alice

Comentario

Hello Alice,
Just wondering if you've ever met Victor Villasenor. 

--- On Fri, 7/15/11, alice wissing wrote:

From: alice wissing
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Author Victor Villasenor is From Arandas
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Friday, July 15, 2011, 10:54 PM

Rick,

I know for certain Rain of Gold is published in Spanish because I have a copy of
Lluvia de Oro, but I don't know about his other books. Also, Victor seems very
proud of his Los Altos roots, so it seems fitting that Los Altos recognizes him.
He said in one of his recent books, Crazy Loco Love, that everybody he ever met
with the last name Villasenor turned out to be his relative. Also, what is this
Alteno writing style you are referring to? 

Thanks,

Alice

Comentario

I, too had already begun my family interviews and genealogy when I
discovered *Rain of Gold* in the early 90s. At my recommendation, many of my
extended family also read it and loved it. It took years for them to stop
asking me, "When are you going to write our story?" (Okay, maybe I never
actually told them I wouldn't. Who knows? Isn't that a secret dream of
many of us? Not for publication, but for our family?)

Raquel H. Ruiz

Comentario

Daniel,

I'm so glad to hear that somebody out there has read a Victor Villasenor Book!
Everybody from Los Altos should be so proud that such a gifted writer has
ancestry from there. It was his father Juan Salvador Villasenor who was born
there but left during the Revolution (like many of our grandparents did). At the
beginning of Rain of Gold, also known as Lluvia de Oro, there is a family tree
that identifies Juan Salvador's parents as Juan Villasenor and Margarita. Many
other children of the couple are listed as well: Jose, Alejo, Luisa, Emilia,
Lucha, Domingo and "otros siete hijos que sobreviven" (whatever that means). We
need to do the math and figure out approximately when these people would have
been born and then review the records for Arandas. I'm going to guess that Juan
Salvador (Victor's dad) was born around 1890.

In Victor's books (particularly Wild Steps of Heaven), he often refers to his
dad as having an evil Spanish father who was fair (I think he

Comentario

Alice,

We are very proud here in Los Altos to be able to brag Don Victor Villaseñor
as one of ours. I would like to bring him up in my next Los Altos
Chroniclers reunion later this month and see if we can recognize him not
only regionally but all over Jalisco and Mexico. Are his books available in
Spanish also? I bet he inherited the alteño "picardía" writing style.

I am also planning to start a Los Altos de Jalisco website
(www.losaltosdejalisco.mx) where I can add his biography, publications,
recognitions and many more of his important achievements so people here in
Los Altos can know what he's accomplished.

Anyone else know about other accomplished persons with Alteño roots in their
ancestry?

R. Rodríguez

-----Mensaje original-----
De: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] En nombre de alice
wissing
Enviado el: jueves, 14 de julio de 2011 7:23 PM
Para: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Asunto: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Author

Comentario

Rick,
 
Besides Rain of gold/Lluvia de Oro, other books from Victor Villasenor that are translated in Spanish are Wild Steps of Heaven/Pasos Salvajes del Paraiso, Thirteen Senses/Trece Sentidos, Walking Stars/Estrellas Peregrinas, Burro Genius/Burro Genio, Macho/Macho. Also, he has written several bilingual children's books. I ordered a couple of them to read with my 3 year old daughter, and I really like the message, especially in one titled The Stranger and the Red Rooster.
 
I've met Victor Villasenor on two ocassions and he really talks with passion about his family history. I had already started on my genealogy before I read Rain of Gold, but after reading this book, I felt even more motivated to learn about my own ancestors.
 
Steve in NC

--- On Thu, 7/14/11, Rick Rodriguez wrote:

From: Rick Rodriguez
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Author Victor Villasenor is From Arandas
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Thursday, July 14, 2011, 9:15 PM

Alice,

We are very proud

Comentario

Victor Villaseno resides in Oceanseide California and he has a Thanksgiving dinner open to all his friends.

--- On Fri, 7/15/11, Steve Apodaca wrote:

From: Steve Apodaca
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Author Victor Villasenor is From Arandas
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Friday, July 15, 2011, 9:37 PM

Rick,
 
Besides Rain of gold/Lluvia de Oro, other books from Victor Villasenor that are translated in Spanish are Wild Steps of Heaven/Pasos Salvajes del Paraiso, Thirteen Senses/Trece Sentidos, Walking Stars/Estrellas Peregrinas, Burro Genius/Burro Genio, Macho/Macho. Also, he has written several bilingual children's books. I ordered a couple of them to read with my 3 year old daughter, and I really like the message, especially in one titled The Stranger and the Red Rooster.
 
I've met Victor Villasenor on two ocassions and he really talks with passion about his family history. I had already started on my genealogy before I read Rain of Gold, but after reading this book, I

Comentario

Here is another entry from the book .

Noviembre 7 de 1795- Don Jose Dionisio Barbosa, de 28 anos, espanol, origianrio y vecino del Valle de San Mateo del Pilon, y residente de esteValle del Guaxuco, hijo legitimo de don Jose Manuel Barbosa, difunto y de dona Maria Manuela Villareal, de aquella vecindad, con dona Maria Guadalupe de la Garza, de 18 anos, espanola, originaria y vecina de este Valle, hija legitima de Francisco de la Garza y de dona Juana Josepha de la Garza, de esta vecindad.

Thats it for now , I searched the whole book and only found the two that I sent .

Take care,
Welester

Comentario

maybe someone can contact him and see if he would like an "honorary"
membership in the NR group. . .which by the way would include a
invitation to speak at the next NR S.California get together.

it never hurts to ask.

joseph

======================

Joseph Puentes
NoMeat@h2opodcast.com
http://h2opodcast.com/vsse.html (Vegan Environmental Solutions Podcast)
http://h2opodcast.com (Environmental Podcast)
http://h2opodcast.blogspot.com (Blog for above)
http://PleaseListenToYourMom.com (Women's Peace Podcast)
http://NuestraFamiliaUnida.com (Latin American History Podcast)
http://nuestrosranchos.org (Jalisco, Zacatecas, and Aguascalientes
Genealogy)

francisco sevilla wrote:
> Victor Villaseno resides in Oceanseide California and he has a
Thanksgiving dinner open to all his friends.
>
> --- On Fri, 7/15/11, Steve Apodaca wrote:
>
> From: Steve Apodaca
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Author Victor Villasenor is From Arandas
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date

Comentario

Whe is the "next NR S. California get together"?
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: Joseph Puentes
Sender: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2011 20:36:33
To:
Reply-to: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Author Victor Villasenor is From Arandas

maybe someone can contact him and see if he would like an "honorary"
membership in the NR group. . .which by the way would include a
invitation to speak at the next NR S.California get together.

it never hurts to ask.

joseph

======================

Joseph Puentes
NoMeat@h2opodcast.com
http://h2opodcast.com/vsse.html (Vegan Environmental Solutions Podcast)
http://h2opodcast.com (Environmental Podcast)
http://h2opodcast.blogspot.com (Blog for above)
http://PleaseListenToYourMom.com (Women's Peace Podcast)
http://NuestraFamiliaUnida.com (Latin American History Podcast)
http://nuestrosranchos.org (Jalisco, Zacatecas, and Aguascalientes
Genealogy)

Comentario

That would be a neat idea, even if I cannot personally  attend....I just got 4 of his books, and started Rain of Gold.  I am so excited..i t's taking me back in time...to 1917- 1920 which  is when our G randfather, Cristino,  came to the US, during the time of the revolution.  Both he and his brother Jose arrived with their wives and children.    Maybe Victor  Villasenor  would consider this invitation.  It would be wonderful for everyone who could attend . 

I must tell you that I married into this Mexican family.....and that was many years ago....in the 1960's.  For me when we went to visit my French grandmother every Sunday, we would sit in a parlor and listen to the clock tick for hours, all dressed up in our Sunday best for Mass and starving, because w e had  fasted for communicon.   It was excrutiating as we "paid our respects".   We were six children and we didn't even get a glass of water, some mints though.  I had to go ask my father "when" we would be going and would it be

Comentario

Nancy,
 
What a heart warming story, thanks for sharing it with us.
 
Alicia,
San Jose, Ca

From: "nancasillas@comcast.net"
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2011 5:04 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Author Victor Villasenor is From Arandas

That would be a neat idea, even if I cannot personally  attend....I just got 4 of his books, and started Rain of Gold.  I am so excited..i t's taking me back in time...to 1917- 1920 which  is when our G randfather, Cristino,  came to the US, during the time of the revolution.  Both he and his brother Jose arrived with their wives and children.    Maybe Victor  Villasenor  would consider this invitation.  It would be wonderful for everyone who could attend . 

I must tell you that I married into this Mexican family.....and that was many years ago....in the 1960's.  For me when we went to visit my French grandmother every Sunday, we would sit in a parlor and listen to the clock tick for hours, all dressed up in our

Comentario

Umm you are welcome...and you would not believe how such a simple thing as a hug on greeting has become a part now of most American US families...and friends.  I see it often now.    I assure you this was not a habit 50 years ago.  I attribute it completely to the Mexican influence here in our culture, and their love of family. 

----- Original Message -----
From: "Alicia Carrillo"
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2011 5:10:53 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Author Victor Villasenor is From Arandas

Nancy,
 
What a heart warming story, thanks for sharing it with us.
 
Alicia,
San Jose, Ca

From: "nancasillas@comcast.net"
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2011 5:04 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Author Victor Villasenor is From Arandas

That would be a neat idea, even if I cannot personally  attend....I just got 4 of his books, and started Rain of Gold.  I am so excited..i t's taking me back in time...to 1917-

Comentario

Yes, we did not see white men in America embracing each other until President Clinton started it. For some reason, after that it took off, also the high fives and other types of handshakes borrowed from other cultures. What I don't see yet is the kisses on the cheeks between men like you see in France and the Arab countries. I was astounded when President Bush kissed some Arab princes, but I have not seen him kiss any other men here.

Emilie

> Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 23:00:09 +0000
> From: nancasillas@comcast.net
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Author Victor Villasenor is From Arandas
>
> Umm you are welcome...and you would not believe how such a simple thing as a hug on greeting has become a part now of most American US families...and friends. I see it often now. I assure you this was not a habit 50 years ago. I attribute it completely to the Mexican influence here in our culture, and their love of family.
>
> ----- Original Message

Comentario

Steve,

Thanks for the info. I've already talked about Victor Villaseñor to some
people in charge from the Departement of Culture from some municipalities.
I will be pushing and reminding them to include his books in their next
workshops. All I need now is to find where to buy the books and pick them up
on my next trip I make to the US, hopefully very soon.

Thanks again,

Ricardo Rodriguez Camarena

-----Mensaje original-----
De: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] En nombre de Steve
Apodaca
Enviado el: viernes, 15 de julio de 2011 11:37 PM
Para: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Asunto: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Author Victor Villasenor is From Arandas

Rick,
 
Besides Rain of gold/Lluvia de Oro, other books from Victor Villasenor that
are translated in Spanish are Wild Steps of Heaven/Pasos Salvajes del
Paraiso, Thirteen Senses/Trece Sentidos, Walking Stars/Estrellas Peregrinas,
Burro Genius/Burro Genio, Macho/Macho. Also, he has

Comentario

Estimado Ricardo,

Desciendo de una hermana Antonio el Amo de Aceves y Casillas Cabrera. Felipa Catarina era hija de Juan
Francisco de Aceves y Antonia de Casillas y Cabrera. Felipa casó el 17 de febrero de 1773 en San Francisco
de Asís, Tepatitlán con José Ignacio Gómez Hurtado de Mendoza. Tuvieron entre otros a mi quinta bisabuela
María Josefa Gómez Hurtado de Mendoza quien casó a José Rosalino Leonel de Cervantes quienes tuvieron a
Maria de Jesús Leonel de Cervantes. Esta casó a Jose Manuel de Aceves y tuvieron a Filomena de Aceves quien
casó a José Antonio Rubio de Zepeda estos tuvieron Atilana Rubio de Zepeda abuela de abuelo paterno.
Probable ya tienes bastante informacion sobre el Amo Aceves, ya que desciendes de el segun mi entendimiento.

Daniel Méndez Camino

Comentario

Hi Alice,

I have always wondered the connection between Victor Villasenor and Los Altos de Jalisco. I will
admit I only have read Rain of Gold, very good read. Also, in spanish Lluvia de Oro. I would
love to research his ancestry. How could I contact his sister. It is very probable that he
comes from the Villasenor-Cervantes family, but one would have to research it.

Daniel Méndez Camino

Records found in Mexico Distrito Federal Catholic Church Records 1886-1933 cover much older dates than title indicates.

You have to know the name of the church to find a record. Open the file and then go directly to the Church as they are listed. Some have records going back to the 1500's.

Comentarios

Dispensas

Since I'm relatively new at genealogy, I'm willing to take the risk of sounding totally ignorant...Are dispensas the same as informacion matrimonial?  With the group's help, the knowledge I gain wil

Comentarios

Comentario

Alice, las dispensas were documents made in special cases in order lo allow
the forbiden marriages, like if they were cousins or relatives and normally
the marriage were not allow, they ask for a dispensa "perdon" and if the
church allow it (normally with some kind of "limosna").

And the informacion matrimonial is the common info that were require to the
groom and bride and their witnesses, it there were any problem, they ask for
the dispensa to the bishop and incluide it in the informacion matrimonial.

I hope this help you

Las dispensas eran los procesos que se realizaban en casos especiales cuando
los matrimonios estuvieran prohibidos, por ejemplo si eran primos o
parientes, el matrimonio no era permitido y tenian que solicitar una
dispensa o perdon al obispo, este normalmente era otorgado con una limosna
de por medio.

Las informaciones matrimoniales era la informacion que comunmente se
solicitaba a los contrayentes y a sus testigos, en caso de haber algunn
impedimento, y habia

Comentario

Thanks Patty.  So if I understand it correctly, if a dispensa was required it would be found within the couple's informacion matrimonial.  So when I research the Mexico church records in familysearch and I'm at the place and date I need, the parish records listings would not have a separate dispensas category, I simply go to the informacion matrimonial, and if a dispensa was necessary, I would find it there.  All this time, I thought dispensas had to be found in a different, more difficult manner.  Thanks so much,  Alice     

--- On Wed, 7/13/11, patty haro wrote:

From: patty haro
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Dispensas
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Wednesday, July 13, 2011, 9:16 PM

Alice, las dispensas were documents made in special cases in order lo allow
the forbiden marriages, like if they were cousins or relatives and normally
the marriage were not allow, they ask for a dispensa "perdon" and if the
church allow it (normally with some kind of "limosna").

And the

Comentario

Well, some times you can find the complete dispensa there and other times
just the letter allowing the marriage, depending on the priest

On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 4:35 PM, Alice Blake wrote:

> Thanks Patty. So if I understand it correctly, if a dispensa was required
> it would be found within the couple's informacion matrimonial. So when I
> research the Mexico church records in familysearch and I'm at the place
> and date I need, the parish records listings would not have a separate
> dispensas category, I simply go to the informacion matrimonial, and if a
> dispensa was necessary, I would find it there. All this time, I thought
> dispensas had to be found in a different, more difficult manner. Thanks so
> much, Alice
>
> --- On Wed, 7/13/11, patty haro wrote:
>
>
> From: patty haro
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Dispensas
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Wednesday, July 13, 2011, 9:16 PM
>
>
> Alice, las dispensas were documents made in special cases in order lo

Comentario

Alice, the información matrimonial normally would only mention that there
was a dispensa, with some exceptions. The dispensas are very valuable
because a majority of the time they contain genealogical info past the
parents unlike the matrimonios and the información matrimonial. A majority
of the dispensas are located in the matrimonio records from Guadalajara
under Diócesis de Guadalajara because the bishop would have to give the
permission and the bishop for the majority of our area was located in
Guadalajara.
https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.family…
is also a list of dispensas for San Juan de los Lagos. I haven't
reviewed these at all so I don't know what they contain.
https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.family…

Armando

On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 4:35 PM, Alice Blake wrote:

> Thanks Patty. So if I understand it correctly, if a dispensa was required
>

Comentario

Wow Armando.  This is all new information for me.  I went to the Diocesis of Guadalajara and saw the categories of capellanias (dictionary translation says chaplain), matrimonios, and ordenes.  Not sure what capellanias refer to in this context because I never got an image to open, and does ordenes refer to holy orders or ordination? 
Where can I access a chronological history of the breakdown of the Guadalajara diocesis?  In other words, when other diocesis were carved out of there.  That would be really useful.  Thanks so much.   Alice  

--- On Thu, 7/14/11, Armando wrote:

From: Armando
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Dispensas
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Thursday, July 14, 2011, 1:54 AM

Alice, the información matrimonial normally would only mention that there
was a dispensa, with some exceptions. The dispensas are very valuable
because a majority of the time they contain genealogical info past the
parents unlike the matrimonios and the información matrimonial. A

Comentario

Alice,

Capellanías are the payments people would make so masses would be said for
them after their death to ensure the salvation of their soul. Wikipedia has
a good explanation in Spanish at
http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capellan%C3%ADa
Ordenes is the investigation of a person to see if they are worthy of
becoming a priest.
A chronological history of the breakdown of the Guadalajara diocese can be
found at http://www.gcatholic.com/dioceses/diocese/guad0.htm and at
http://www.catholic-hierarchy.org/diocese/dguad.html#former I never thought
I would find this info.

For some reason the earlier link for the Diócesis de Guadalajara link had
added on a word from another sentence. Here it is again for everyone else
https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.family…

Armando

On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 11:35 PM, Alice Blake wrote:

> Wow Armando. This is all new information for me. I went to the Diocesis
> of Guadalajara and saw the

Comentario

Armando,  Thanks so much for the explanation.  I can see where knowing what cities and towns were under Guadalajara's diocese at different points in time makes all the difference in the usefulness of this resource.
Unless I missed it.  I didn't see a map illustrating the geographical area the diocese emcompassed throughout its history.  I thought that one point even Monterrey, NL was under the Guadalajara diocese, but I could be wrong.  Again thank you for your help.   Alice 

--- On Thu, 7/14/11, Armando wrote:

From: Armando
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Dispensas
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Thursday, July 14, 2011, 3:17 PM

Alice,

Capellanías are the payments people would make so masses would be said for
them after their death to ensure the salvation of their soul. Wikipedia has
a good explanation in Spanish at
http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capellan%C3%ADa
Ordenes is the investigation of a person to see if they are worthy of
becoming a priest.
A chronological

Comentario

Alice, Monterrey was under the diocese of Michoacán until 15 December 1777.
After that it was under the Diocese of Linares o Nueva León. I do see a note
that says 26 January 1863 Metropolitan Changed Diocese of Linares o Nueva
León (From Mexico (Mexico) to Guadalajara (Mexico)). I don't know what the
details on that are though.
http://www.catholic-hierarchy.org/diocese/dmonm.html#hist

Armando

On Sat, Jul 16, 2011 at 11:12 PM, Alice Blake wrote:

> Armando, Thanks so much for the explanation. I can see where knowing what
> cities and towns were under Guadalajara's diocese at different points in
> time makes all the difference in the usefulness of this resource.
> Unless I missed it. I didn't see a map illustrating the geographical area
> the diocese emcompassed throughout its history. I thought that one
> point even Monterrey, NL was under the Guadalajara diocese, but I could be
> wrong. Again thank you for your help. Alice
>
> --- On Thu, 7/14/11, Armando wrote:
>
>
> From

Comentario

Armando,   This is where I got the idea that Nuevo Leon was under the Guadalajara diocese.  In Israel Cavazaos Garza, Breve historia de Nuevo Leon, p.104 it reads:  "Ya en 1741, el obispo de Guadalajara, don Juan Gomez de Parada, establecio una escuela formal y nombro como maestro a Martin de Arrambide (my 6grgrandfather), encargandole mucho la buena educacion de los ninos."  The author  doesn't really say what city in Nuevo Leon.  Do you think Nuevo Leon was divided in regards to dioceses?  This is where a map illustrating dioceses at different times in history would be helpful.  Then again, my Spanish literacy isn't the greatest, so I might have misunderstood.     Thanks again,  Alice

--- On Tue, 7/19/11, Armando wrote:

From: Armando
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Dispensas
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Tuesday, July 19, 2011, 10:20 PM

Alice, Monterrey was under the diocese of Michoacán until 15 December 1777.
After that it was under the Diocese of Linares o Nueva

Comentario

Armando,
I did not know that Nuevo Leon was at any time under the Dioceses of Michoacan. All the dispensas I've found for Nuevo Leon, prior to 15 of December of 1777 when the "Arzobispado de Monterrey" was established, were in the Sagrada Mitra de Guadalajara. I would be very interested in learning which period or locations in Nuevo Leon were under the jurisdiction of Michoacan, as it may be useful to locate certain records for my Nuevo Leon side of my family, that I've been unable to find elsehwere.

Armando,
Yo no sabia que Nuevo Leon estuvo bajo la Diocesis de Michoacan. Todas la dispensa que he encontrado para Nuevo Leon, previas al 15 de diciembre de 1777, cuando se fundo el Arzobispado de Monterrey, estaban en la Sagrada Mitra de Guadalajara. Estoy muy interesado en conocer en que periodo, o que localidades de Nuevo Leon estuvieron bajo la jurisdiccion de Michoacan, ya que me seria muy util para buscar ciertos registros de familiares originarios de Nuevo Leon que no he podido

Comentario

Jaime,
Not sure that you saw my prior post on Nuevo Leon and the Guadalajara diocese regarding the appointment of my 6grgrandfather Martin Arrambide Arsa.  I don't mind researching, but I'd like to think that I'm not barking up the wrong tree, either.  I'd like to research his informacion matrimonial regarding his marriage of 11/22/1762 in Salinas Victoria, NL.  I've never researched the dispensas in the Guadalajara diocese and I'd like to go about it intelligently.  Are they listed by state, city, or simply by date?  Thanks so much for your help.
Alice Blake 

--- On Wed, 7/20/11, Jaime R. Alvarado wrote:

From: Jaime R. Alvarado
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Dispensas
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Wednesday, July 20, 2011, 9:45 PM

Armando,
I did not know that Nuevo Leon was at any time under the Dioceses of Michoacan. All the dispensas I've found for Nuevo Leon, prior to 15 of December of 1777 when the "Arzobispado de Monterrey" was established, were in the Sagrada

Comentario

Hello Alice and Jaime,

I was going by what the websites said that I had found and provided earlier.
It seems you two will have to be the ones that can give us the answers. I
searched for more info on the dioceses and did a lot of reading but I
couldn't find anything that provided where dispensas would be located or why
the bishop of Guadalajara would be opening schools in Nuevo León when it was
under the diocese of Michoacán. Much less historical maps. Sorry I couldn't
be of more help on the subject.
The dispensas are normally by date but many times are out of range and
sometimes in a completely different volume. Hopefully someday they all get
indexed first and placed online and then fully transcribed at a later date.
My understanding is Luz Montejano Hilton didn't get all of them into her
book. They can be extremely valuable records for us.

Armando

On Wed, Jul 20, 2011 at 5:36 PM, Alice Blake wrote:

> Jaime,
> Not sure that you saw my prior post on Nuevo Leon and the Guadalajara

Comentario

Alice and Jaime,

I just remembered there was a very informative post here at NuestrosRanchos
by George Fulton on the subject of dispensas for Monterrey. You should read
that one. It is at http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/19548 I guess the
Linares diocese is simplified as being from that of Michoacan even though it
was mostly from Guadalajara.

Armando

On Wed, Jul 20, 2011 at 8:56 PM, Armando wrote:

> Hello Alice and Jaime,
>
> I was going by what the websites said that I had found and provided
> earlier. It seems you two will have to be the ones that can give us the
> answers. I searched for more info on the dioceses and did a lot of reading
> but I couldn't find anything that provided where dispensas would be located
> or why the bishop of Guadalajara would be opening schools in Nuevo León when
> it was under the diocese of Michoacán. Much less historical maps. Sorry I
> couldn't be of more help on the subject.
> The dispensas are normally by date but many times are out of

Comentario

Thank you Armando and other members,  I'm learning something new everyday!   Alice Blake

--- On Thu, 7/21/11, Armando wrote:

From: Armando
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Dispensas
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Thursday, July 21, 2011, 4:00 AM

Alice and Jaime,

I just remembered there was a very informative post here at NuestrosRanchos
by George Fulton on the subject of dispensas for Monterrey. You should read
that one. It is at http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/19548 I guess the
Linares diocese is simplified as being from that of Michoacan even though it
was mostly from Guadalajara.

Armando

On Wed, Jul 20, 2011 at 8:56 PM, Armando wrote:

> Hello Alice and Jaime,
>
> I was going by what the websites said that I had found and provided
> earlier. It seems you two will have to be the ones that can give us the
> answers. I searched for more info on the dioceses and did a lot of reading
> but I couldn't find anything that provided where dispensas would be located
> or

Comentario

Alice,
Unfortunately the 'dispensas' were never sorted from its origins into volumes by city or state. However, because of the extreme endogamy of Nuevo Leon, the number of dispensas corresponding to that region is striking. In addition, similar to local 'Licencias Matrimoniales' the chronological order is not followed at the time these records were photo-documented.
Sincerely

Jaime Alvarado

Comentario

Jaime,
Would a couple have an informacion matrimonial entered first at the parish level and then if necessary, a dispensa at the diocese level?  Thanks so much,  Alice Blake 

--- On Wed, 7/27/11, Jaime R. Alvarado wrote:

From: Jaime R. Alvarado
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Dispensas
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Wednesday, July 27, 2011, 5:38 AM

Alice,
Unfortunately the 'dispensas' were never sorted from its origins into volumes by city or state. However, because of the extreme endogamy of Nuevo Leon, the number of dispensas corresponding to that region is striking. In addition, similar to local 'Licencias Matrimoniales' the chronological order is not followed at the time these records were photo-documented.
Sincerely

Jaime Alvarado

Comentario

Alice,
That is my impression. I recently stumbled into an instance,that indicates that was the case as the consanguinity was discovered for a couple after such information was disclosed in the marriage investigation of their respective brother-sister. That marriage of several years, and several children, was declared invalid and the couple was ordered to live separately. They had to go through the entire process, beginning with "informacion matrimonial" and a "dispensa' from Guadalajara, and eventually they were remarried. This example may explain a couple of instances among members of my family in Nuevo Leon where I found two separate weddings between individuals with the same names as well as those of their parents. At the time I though it was a remarkable coincidence.

Sincerely

Jaime

Comentario

Jaime I found the same thing in Jerez, Zacatecas Mexico where a couple discovers they have a blood relationship and separate until the dispensation is granted and then they remarry. In fact I've found it 2 or 3 times.
thank you for sharing
Linda in B.C.

From: Jaime R. Alvarado
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2011 9:51 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Dispensas

Alice,
That is my impression. I recently stumbled into an instance,that indicates that was the case as the consanguinity was discovered for a couple after such information was disclosed in the marriage investigation of their respective brother-sister. That marriage of several years, and several children, was declared invalid and the couple was ordered to live separately. They had to go through the entire process, beginning with "informacion matrimonial" and a "dispensa' from Guadalajara, and eventually they were remarried. This example may explain a couple of instances among members of my family in

Comentario

Thanks for your information, Jaime.  In as little time as I've been researching my genealogy, I've come to realize all things are possible.
Alice Blake

--- On Fri, 7/29/11, Jaime R. Alvarado wrote:

From: Jaime R. Alvarado
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Dispensas
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Friday, July 29, 2011, 4:51 AM

Alice,
That is my impression. I recently stumbled into an instance,that indicates that was the case as the consanguinity was discovered for a couple after such information was disclosed in the marriage investigation of their respective brother-sister. That marriage of several years, and several children, was declared invalid and the couple was ordered to live separately. They had to go through the entire process, beginning with "informacion matrimonial" and a "dispensa' from Guadalajara, and eventually they were remarried. This example may explain a couple of instances among members of my family in Nuevo Leon where I found two separate weddings

MARIA SILVESTRE HERNANDEZ HERMOSILLO

Estimados compañeros, estoy en la búsqueda de la ascendencia de José María López Gonzalez c.c.

Comentarios

Comentario

Here's one that may nor may not help you. *Jose Maria Lopez *married to *Maria
Silvestre Hernandez *on *9 Oct 1833, Santiago, Capula, Michoacan *His
parents: *Jose Maria Lopez y Maria Pasquala [M604697 (1761-1876) film
0798010]*
Esther Jordan Lopez

2011/7/27

> Estimados compañeros, estoy en la búsqueda de la ascendencia de José María
> López Gonzalez c.c. María Silvestre Hernándes Hermosillo probablemente
> casados entre 1845 y 1853, muy seguramente en Tlaltenango de Sanchez Román.
> Encontré ya las actas de bautismo de 9 de 13 hijos, y tengo referencias de
> otros dos. Sin embargo no he encontrado matrimonios de los hijos de Jose
> María López y de María Silvestre Hernandez, encontrando el matrimonio de
> alguno de ellos puedo darme una idea de donde y en que fechas buscar el
> matrimonio de los padres (José María López Gonzalez y María Silvestre
> Hernandez Hermosillo)
>
> Si alguno de ustedes tiene alguna referencia a esto, aprecio mucho que me
> proporcione el dato.
>
> A

Testamentaría histórica

Pongo a disposición del grupo "Nuestros Ranchos", reproducciones de
documentos esenciales para el estudio genealógico de las familias: Romo de
Vivar; De Trillo (Trillo); López de Nava; De Reyes (Reyes); De Tiscareño

Comentarios

Comentario

Estimado Dn Felipe Reyes:
Le agradecería me indicara cómo puedo conseguir una copia de testamentos de
la familia Romo de Vivar...
Muchas gracias, de antemano,
Alfonso Hernandez-Romo
AV.La Paz 2758, Arcos Sur 44130,
Guadalajara,Jalisco, México
Mi correo es alfonsoherna@gmail.com

El día 11/12/06, felipe reyes escribió:
>
> Pongo a disposición del grupo "Nuestros Ranchos", reproducciones de
> documentos esenciales para el estudio genealógico de las familias: Romo de
> Vivar; De Trillo (Trillo); López de Nava; De Reyes (Reyes); De Tiscareño
> (Tiscareño); Villalobos; Lozano; Muñóz de la Barba y Cid Escobar. Se trata
> de una compilación de fotocopias de Testamentos registrados entre 1680 y
> 1780 en Aguascalientes, que amablemente me ha proporcionado el Archivo
> Notarial del Estado de Aguascalientes, como parte de sus servicios de
> atención a investrigadores. Felipe Reyes Romo
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Te gusta estar en control, crea tu

Comentario

Fuente documental: Archivo Notarial del Estado de Aguascalientes. Documentos
para la Historia de las familias:Romo de Vivar; De Trillo (Trillo); López de
Nava; De Reyes (Reyes); De Tiscareño(Tiscareño); Villalobos; Lozano; Muñóz
de la Barba; Cid Escobar

Testamento de Jacinto Lozano
LUGAR- Aguascalientes
FECHA- 19-XI-1683 Localizacion- 2 7 31 51f-53v
Escribano- Alonso Navarrete Argote

Testamento de Ana López de Nava
LUGAR- Aguascalientes
FECHA- 4-VII-1690 LOCALIZACION- 8 9 20 22f-23v
ESCRIBANO- Antonio Pérez de Velasco

Testamento de Pedro Romo de Vivar
LUGAR- Aguascalientes
FECHA- 13-II-1692 LOCALIZACION- 84 1 6 7v-10v
ESCRIBANO O AUTORIDAD- Antonio Pérez de Velasco

Testamento de Isabel Romo de Vivar
LUGAR- Aguascalientes
FECHA- 11-VI-1692 LOCALIZAICON- 84 1 37 50f-51f
ESCRIBANO - Antonio Pérez de Velasco

Testamento de Nicolás Ramírez Valdés (A) María Siordia
LUGAR- Aguascalientes
FECHA- 30-X-1694 LOCALIZACION- 84 3 26 48v-49v
ESCRIBANO- Antonio Pérez de Velasco

Comentario

Hola Ferero,

Durante las últimas semanas he estado investigando acerca de algunos ancestros con el apellido García, Trillo, Villalpando etc. Me topé con este post de hace unos años, Parece muy interesante y de hecho ya me ha sido util para aclarar la personalidad de Felipe Trillo, Presbítero. Muchas gracias por compartir esta lista. ¿Es posible ver los documentos originales on line? ¿Se encuentran en alguna página especial o tienes copias en tu poder que pudieras compartir? Te agradezco de antemano.

Jorge Elias

Comentario

Sr. Reyes,

Le agradecería me enviara una lista de las personas que otorgaron
testamentos de los cuales tiene Ud. fotocopias. Me interesan principalmente
los testamentos de personas apellidadas Lozano, Romo de Vivar, Trillo,
Tiscareño y López de Nava. Muchas gracias.

Guillermo Figueroa Strecker

----- Original Message -----
From: "felipe reyes"
To:
Sent: Monday, December 11, 2006 11:46 AM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Testamentaría histórica

Pongo a disposición del grupo "Nuestros Ranchos", reproducciones de
documentos esenciales para el estudio genealógico de las familias: Romo de
Vivar; De Trillo (Trillo); López de Nava; De Reyes (Reyes); De Tiscareño
(Tiscareño); Villalobos; Lozano; Muñóz de la Barba y Cid Escobar. Se trata
de una compilación de fotocopias de Testamentos registrados entre 1680 y
1780 en Aguascalientes, que amablemente me ha proporcionado el Archivo
Notarial del Estado de Aguascalientes, como parte de sus servicios de
atención a investrigadores. Felipe

Comentario

Hola desde Guadalajara:

Me interesan las copias que usted consiguio, seria posible
que las escaneara o fotografiara digitalmente para que pueda
enviarmelas por medio de e-mail o del servicio de pando.

Mil gracias por su ayuda.

Atentamente:

Tomas Alejandro Villegas Gomez.

El día 11/12/06, Bill Figueroa escribió:
>
> Sr. Reyes,
>
> Le agradecería me enviara una lista de las personas que otorgaron
> testamentos de los cuales tiene Ud. fotocopias. Me interesan
> principalmente
> los testamentos de personas apellidadas Lozano, Romo de Vivar, Trillo,
> Tiscareño y López de Nava. Muchas gracias.
>
> Guillermo Figueroa Strecker
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "felipe reyes"
> To:
> Sent: Monday, December 11, 2006 11:46 AM
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Testamentaría histórica
>
>
> Pongo a disposición del grupo "Nuestros Ranchos", reproducciones de
> documentos esenciales para el estudio genealógico de las familias: Romo de

PRESENTACION

SALUDOS, A TODO EL GRUPO
SOY MIEMBRO NUEVO EN ESTE ESPACIO, MI NOMBRE ES LUPITA GONZALEZ, EL INTERES DE PERTENECER AQUI, ES QUE MI ASCENDENCIA POR PARTE DE MI MADRE, ES DE LOS ALTOS DE JALISCO, EN ESPECIAL VALLE DE GUADALUPE, PERO TAMBIEN SUS ALREDEDORES,JALOSTOTITLAN, CAÑADAS, LAGOS, NOCHISTLAN, AGUASCALIENTES, Y OTROS LUGARES, LLEVO MENOS DE UN AÑO HACIENDO EL ARBOL GENEALOGICO DE LA FAMILIA, Y CREO QUE LLEVO ALGO AVANZADO, ESTOY DISPUESTA A COMPARTIR INFORMACION, SI EXISTEN PERSONAS FUERA DE GUADALAJARA, LES PUEDO APOYAR BUSCANDO EN LOS ARCHIVOS DE LA SAGRADA MITRA.

Comentarios

Comentario

Mi madre--María de los Angeles Romo Quezada. nació en Encarnación de Díaz, jalisco, en 1914. Sus padres, Simón Romo Garcia, y su madre, maría de la Cruz Quezada Ramirez, ambos de Encarnación de Díaz, Jalisco. Me gustaría saber más detalles de sus familias, ya que ignoro más detalles...podrías auxiliarme?
Un afectuoso saludo.
Alfonso H. Romo

Comentario

Dear Lupita:
Welcome to the group. Many of us are researching the same names. Please check the GEDCOM link on this site for any person matching your research. I have Alvarez, Casillas, Rubalcava, Ledesma, Alva and Orozco in my database. I have many Ledesma's mainly from San Miguel El Alto and Tepatitlan, but I do have some documentation on Ledesma's from Valle de Guadalupe, which are not linked to my family tree yet. Please let me know some names you are researching and I will take a look if I have any documentation and would be happy to forward it.

Maureen Bejar

Comentario

Saludos a todos:

Soy nuevo en este grupo, mi nombre es Rafael David
Rivera Pérez, Nací en Guadalajara, Jalisco y
actualmente radico en Nogales, Sonora.

Mis ancestros son de Jalisco (Guadalajara, Juchitlan,
Ahualulco y al parecer Ameca).

Mi interés es investigar sobre los apellidos "Rivera",
"Lizaola", "Tisnado" y "Martín del Campo"

Mucho les agradeceré cualquier información que me
faciliten de estos apellidos.

Así mismo agradeceré si alguien me indica como
localizar el film del "censo de 1830 de México"

Gracias

____________________________________________________________________________________
¡Capacidad ilimitada de almacenamiento en tu correo!
No te preocupes más por el espacio de tu cuenta con Correo Yahoo!:
http://correo.espanol.yahoo.com/

Comentario

I am getting this error when I try to access the Nuestros Ranchos website:

Fatal error: Duplicate entry 'f3207a588827b12a8bf3fef61fe93283' for key 1
query: INSERT IGNORE INTO sessions (sid, uid, hostname, timestamp) VALUES
('f3207a588827b12a8bf3fef61fe93283', 0, '168.158.180.249', 1201991291) in
/home/.talley/lafamilia/nuestrosranchos.org/includes/database.mysql.inc on
line 66

Is it the site or is it me?

V-

--
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean.

Comentario

Belinda Alvarez

Hello Maureen
It´s only today that I find your note from 2008 and hope you're still active in Nuestros Ranchos. Three of my grandparents were from Jalisco. I'm also interested in Alvarez and Rubalcava. My father's paternal grandfather was Filemón Alvarez whom we've always thought was from Corral del Monte Jalisco, but I have no evidence of this. He got married with Filomena Rubalcava on January 7th 1884, whom according to the file I found in FamilySearch, was born on July 12th 1857 in San Juan de los Lagos. It is also there where they got married. They had four children, one of them my grandfather José Refugio. Could these be people you're related to?

I'm afraid I don't more information than this, but hope it is useful for you.

In my case, I'd like to know more of Filomeno Alvarez. I'm also looking for Marcelino Alvarez who was a much loved doctor in Arandas. I know there's a street there named after him and I know he's related to my family but I don't know how

Comentario

Hola Lupita

Con interés leí tu presentación en Nuestros Ranchos y por tu ofrecimiento de ayudar buscando en los archivos de la Mitra en Guadalajara, me imagino que vives en esa bella ciudad. Si es así tal vez seas la persona que he estado buscando desde hace mucho. Yo vivo en USA y se me ha dificultado mucho encontrar datos de mi familia materna, pues aunque tengo familiares en Guadalajara, ninguno tiene tiempo o el interés necesario para ayudarme. Mi abuelo nació en Tepatitlán, pero se casó en Guadalajara de donde era mi abuela. Si no fuera mucha molestia te agradecería si pudieras localizar:

El acta de matrimonio de mis abuelos, se casaron en 1904, probablemente entre marzo y mayo, casi estoy segura que la boda fué en la catedral de Guadalajara. Eran: Tiburcio Navarro Acévez y Ma. Elena Ramírez Valdéz. o,

El acta de nacimiento o fé de bautizo de mi abuela Ma. Elena Ramírez Valdéz el día de Corpus Cristi (mayo) de 1882 u 83 en Guadalajara, era gemela su hermanita falleció no sé si

Comentario

Hola Lupita, me da gusto que hayas encontrado esta página. Cada vez somos mas personas quienes compartimos encestros en los Altos de Jalisco y sobre todo el interés de conocer nuestras raíces ancestrales.

Yo vivo en Tepatitlán de Morelos, Jalisco, pero al igual que tu, tengo ancestros en casi toda la región; Cañadas de Obregón, Valle de Guadalupe, Jalostotitlán, San Miguel el Alto, San Juan de los Lagos, Lagos de Moreno, Teocaltiche, Ocotlán, Nochistlán, etc.

Entre los apellidos que encuentro entre mis ancestros están los Ramírez de Hermosillo, Gómez Hurtado de Mendoza, Díaz de León, Domínguez, González Rubio, González de Hermosillo, Martín del Campo, Martín de Sotomayor, de la Mora Hurtado de Mendoza, Gallardo, Padilla Dávila, Aranda, de Luna, Ibarra, Gutiérrez Coronado, Romero de Chávez, Hernández Gamiño, Pérez Franco, Franco de Paredes, Casillas y Cabrera, López de Elizalde, Ruiz de Esparza, Gallegos, Muñoz de Nava, Becerra, Santa Cruz, Guajardo, de Aceves, Rodríguez de

Comentario

Holá, Jorge-Luis!

Hablo español, pero me hace dificil escribir, porque mis estudios eran en
inglés. Me perdone los errores.

He estado trabajando mucho en la genealogía de mi familia ROMO DE VIVAR.
Los ancestros conocidos son de Encarnación de Díaz y de Tepatitlán de
Morelos, y más tarde, de Guadalajara. Lo que he descubierto, se puede ver
abajo. Pero antes de Gregorio ROMO, (1780), no encuentro nada más que
nombres, y antes de Bernabe ROMO, pierdo la sequencia.

Noto que uno de los nombres que se encuentra en su presentación es PADILLA
RIVERA. Mi tía M. Guadalupe Romo Gutiérrez se casó con Salvador Padilla
Rivera. ¿Puede ser que es la misma familia? Me puede ayudar a seguir la
sequencia más para atrás?

Y algo más. Se dice en la familia que Salvador Padilla Rivera, cuando se
casó con M. Guadalupe Romo, compró la hacienda familiar, la Hacienda de
Calderón, no muy lejos de la ciudadad de Zapotlanejo, que ahora se llama
Ex-Hacienda de Calderón. Me interesaría aprender más sobre la

Comentario

Hola Karr, creo que ya habíamos platicado acerca del Rancho de Calderón, pues como te comenté unos ancestros míos de apellido Gutiérrez vivían ahí, aunque no se mucho sobre ellos, y del rancho pues lo conozco pero no se nada de su historia. En cuanto a la familia Romo de Vivar, lo único que se es que Bernabé Romo de Vivar casó en Tepatitlán de Morelos, Jalisco el día 27 de enero de 1761 con Ana Gertrudis Franco.

Ellos tuvieron un hijo llamado José Gregorio Romo de Vivar, tu ancestro, el cual fue bautizado en Aguascalientes el día 20 de marzo de 1772. Se casó en Lagos de Moreno el día 04 de septiembre de 1793 con María de los Dolores Villalobos.

José Gregorio Romo de Vivar y María de los Dolores Villalobos tuvieron un hijo al que le pusieron José Pablo Romo de Vivar, bautizado en la Villa de Encarnación de Díaz, Jalisco el día 28 de marzo de 1807. Casó en Encarnación de Díaz el día 18 de noviembre de 1822 con María de la Asención Cornejo.

José Pablo Romo de Vivar y María de la

Comentario

Hola Jorge ,como estas ? Ojala que estes bien. Mencionas La Lina Reynoso ,donde son tus antepasados Reynoso.Mis ante pasados eran de San Julian desde Jalostotitlan. Lo que yo ha investigado todo la Reynosada son los mismos. Yo tambien me toca casi igual la mayor parte de tus antepasados. Mi mero mero antepasado Reynoso era Francisco Reynoso casado con Josefa Renteria . Francisco Reynoso hijo de Francisco Reynoso( de Peru) y Marian Padilla Davila y Velasco.
Ronnie Reynoso casi pariente a todos de Los altos> From: georgio_2386@hotmail.com> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org> Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 14:45:11 -0600> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] PRESENTACION> > > Hola Lupita, me da gusto que hayas encontrado esta página. Cada vez somos mas personas quienes compartimos encestros en los Altos de Jalisco y sobre todo el interés de conocer nuestras raíces ancestrales. > > Yo vivo en Tepatitlán de Morelos, Jalisco, pero al igual que tu, tengo ancestros en casi toda la región; Cañadas de Obregón

Comentario

Hi there ,

I have de Luna in my line she was Maria Pasquala de Luna married to Juan de Alvarado thier son Jose Antonio Candelario Alvarado de Luna was my Great great great Grandfather , Candelario was born 10th of Feb.1792 in Saltillo , Coahuila and married Maria Quirina Saldivar Gomez in Villa de Sanitago , Nuevo Leon 26 of Oct 1844 . I don't have any info on Juan or Pasquala such as birth dates , baptisms or marriage dates . If you have any info on them I sure would appreciate it .

Thank you ,
Welester G. Alvarado

lo, Martín del Campo, Martín de Sotomayor, de la Mora Hurtado de Mendoza, Gallardo, Padilla Dávila, Aranda, de Luna, Ibarra, Gutiérrez Coronado, Romero de Chávez, Hernández Gamiño, Pérez Franco, Franco de Paredes, Casillas y Cabrera, López de Elizalde, Ruiz de Esparza, Gallegos, Muñoz de Nava, Becerra, Santa Cruz, Guajardo, de Aceves, Rodríguez de Portugal, Gómez de Portugal, Gutiérrez de Hermosillo, Gutiérrez de Mendoza, Gutiérrez Rubio, Muñoz de Hermosillo

Comentario

Hola Lupita, te comento que llevo avanzado mi árbol (Ruvalcaba, Moreno, Gonzalez, Gómez Portugal, etc.) con rigenes en los Altos de Jalisco... puedes consultarlo en ancestry.com... si quieres acceder a ellos házmelo saber ara que te envíe una invitación de consulta.
abrazos
paco herrera

LUPITA GONZALEZ GONZALEZ escribió:

SALUDOS, A TODO EL GRUPO
SOY MIEMBRO NUEVO EN ESTE ESPACIO, MI NOMBRE ES LUPITA GONZALEZ, EL INTERES DE PERTENECER AQUI, ES QUE MI ASCENDENCIA POR PARTE DE MI MADRE, ES DE LOS ALTOS DE JALISCO, EN ESPECIAL VALLE DE GUADALUPE, PERO TAMBIEN SUS ALREDEDORES,JALOSTOTITLAN, CAÑADAS, LAGOS, NOCHISTLAN, AGUASCALIENTES, Y OTROS LUGARES, LLEVO MENOS DE UN AÑO HACIENDO EL ARBOL GENEALOGICO DE LA FAMILIA, Y CREO QUE LLEVO ALGO AVANZADO, ESTOY DISPUESTA A COMPARTIR INFORMACION, SI EXISTEN PERSONAS FUERA DE GUADALAJARA, LES PUEDO APOYAR BUSCANDO EN LOS ARCHIVOS DE LA SAGRADA MITRA.
LES COMENTO QUE HA SIDO UNA SORPRESA PARA MI ENCONTRARME, CON APELLIDOS COMO DE RUEDA

Comentario

Hola Lupita. Bienvenida al grupo. Me alegra saber que ya tienes un año de estudiar tu genealogía y que has logrado avanzar bastante. Comparto contigo algunos de los apellidos que mencionaste, y creo que en algún momento dado podremos compartir alguna información genealógica. Aunque yo soy originario de Guatemala y mis raices en su mayoría están en Centroamérica, Estados Unidos, Alemania y otros países, tengo también raices muy profundas en México. Empezé a estudiar mi genealogía hace algunos años y he logrado saber quienes fueron mis ancestros desde la independencia y a través del virreinato, hasta llegar a España y los tiempos anteriores al descubrimiento de América. Si tienes unos minutos, te contaré como encontré a mi ancestros de Aguascalientes, Zacatecas y los Altos de Jalisco, porque creo que esto podría servirte como orientación.

Empezé con mi abuelo, Guillermo Strecker Frías, hijo menor de Wilhelm L. Strecker y de Josefa Frías Esparza. Mi bisabuela era mexicana. María

Comentario

Lupita,

Parece que entendi que estas en Guadalajara.

Aqui todos tenemos un interes comun... Preservar la historia de nuestros antepasados para que las nuevas generaciones no los olviden. Todos companeros y todos dispuestos a ayudar. Yo tengo aproximadamente 6 meses en el grupo.

Bienvenida!

Saludos desde San Antonio, TX,
Sandra Gomez de Mendoza

Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

Comentario

Lupita,

Parece que entendi que estas en Guadalajara.

Aqui todos tenemos un interes comun... Preservar la historia de nuestros antepasados para que las nuevas generaciones no los olviden. Todos companeros y todos dispuestos a ayudar. Yo tengo aproximadamente 6 meses en el grupo.

Bienvenida!

Saludos desde San Antonio, TX,
Sandra Gomez de Mendoza

Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

Abbreviation of a name

I need some help in interpreting an abbreviation of a name.

I have seen names such as "Ma. Ha." and "Ha. Rafaela" in baptismal records.

Comentarios

Comentario

It could be Helena, Herminia, Hilaria, Hortensia, Heraclia.... It may even be a name not currently spelled with H. Since they are baptismal records I would check the names of the saints of the day, week and month the girl was born and baptised.
Best regards,
Victoriano Navarro

Comentario

The abbreviation is not "Ha" it is "Jfa" and it stands for Josefa. There are places where it is written with the letters clearly separated, and other where they are joined, hence the confusion. Josefa is also written Josepha, and abbreviated Jpha.

Names beginning with H are not common; in this particular register, quite rare in fact. The abbreviation Jfa is, however, common.

George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA

Comentario

Very good!

-----Original Message-----
From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of
gpf13@aol.com
Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2011 9:58 PM
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Problem solved!

The abbreviation is not "Ha" it is "Jfa" and it stands for Josefa. There are
places where it is written with the letters clearly separated, and other
where they are joined, hence the confusion. Josefa is also written Josepha,
and abbreviated Jpha.

Names beginning with H are not common; in this particular register, quite
rare in fact. The abbreviation Jfa is, however, common.

George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA

Gaps researching baptisms in Celaya - Family Search

I've been going through the Family Seach site, searching in Celaya for baptisms around the year 1630 The years jump from abt 1622 to the 1640s.

Comentarios

Comentario

Paul,
Gaps in the records are not uncommon and there are many sources. Sometimes volumes were missing, as these could have been destroyed (fire, water, rats, etc.). In other cases, a period maybe misplaced, and with luck sometimes you stumble to records in other volumes of very different decades, and sometimes centuries. My only recommendation is not to give up and keep on searching.

Jaime Alvarado

No se como buscar este microfilm, no esta en el consecutivo, disculpen , todabia no me familiarizo con el buscador.

Comentarios

Comentario

sigue este link

https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.family…

Ahora diviertete buscando por fecha!!!

2011/7/26

> https://www.familysearch.org/**search/recordDetails/show?uri=**
> https://api.familysearch.org/**records/pal:/MM9.1.r/9MTX-ZKR/**p1
>
> Esta es la liga, es el Papa de mi tatalabuelo, se la fecho pero no e
> visto el microfilm.
> les agrdesco de antemano.
> Salvador Gutierrez

Comentario

es mas facil buscar por estado, ciudad, tipo de sacramento (bautizo
matrimonio, defuncion) y finalmente el año.

Recuerda que en algunos pueblos estan revueltos indios con españoles y en
otros estan separados por eso es mucho mas fácil cuando tienes el número de
film como es en tu caso, ahora solo tienes que tener un poco de paciencia e
ir buscando por las fechas... suerte

2011/7/26 patty haro

> sigue este link
>
>
> https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.family…
>
> Ahora diviertete buscando por fecha!!!
>
> 2011/7/26
>
> https://www.familysearch.org/**search/recordDetails/show?uri=**
>> https://api.familysearch.org/**records/pal:/MM9.1.r/9MTX-ZKR/**p1
>>
>> Esta es la liga, es el Papa de mi tatalabuelo, se la fecho pero no e
>> visto el microfilm.
>> les agrdesco de antemano.
>> Salvador Gutierrez