Dr.mt

Ancestors of Victoriano Ramírez López, "El Catorce"

Published by ElCapitanPaco –
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Estimados primos y colegas:

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Comentario

Estimado Primo steven,

Que gusto ver un texto tuyo de nuevo, quiero decir, hace algunos días que no te veíamos por aquí, pero wow !!!! cuando nos escribes algo es siempre outstanding!!

Gracias Steven por compartir y ordenar tantos hallazgos y te doy las gracias anticipadas por las histórias de los personajes que nos vas a compartir, creo que todos los asiduos a nuestros ranchos estámos muy emocionados por conocerlas.

Yo en lo particular estoy muy contento de saber que nos escribirás sobre Don Guillermo González Camarena, ya que he planeado hacer su genealogía pero nunca la he iniciado; también me ha interesado hacer la de Vicente Fernández, pero al igual que la otra, tampoco la inicié; enfín,

Un placer saludarte de nuevo y quedar a tus órdenes

Con afecto y admiración

Carlos A. Peredo

Comentario

Steven,

Yo tengo un dato que busca, referiendome al matrimonio entre Joseph-María López y Micaela-Anastasia Vásquez, siendo que Micaela fue hermana de mi 5ta abuela materna, Maria Faustina Vasquez Maciel. Yo desciendo de Cristobal Vasquez de Lara y Petronila de Padilla de dos hermanos: Cristobal Manuel Vasquez de Lara por mi lado paterno y Esteban Vasquez de Lara por mi lado materno.

Yo tengo en mis datos esta informacion:

Name: Josse Maria Lopez
Spouse's Name: Maria Michaela Basquez
Event Date: 28 Jan 1783
Event Place: Nuestra Senora De La Asuncion, Jalostotitlan, Jalisco, Mexico
Father's Name: Jasinto Lopez
Mother's Name: Lucia Manuela
Spouse's Father's Name: Christoval Basques
Spouse's Mother's Name: Asencia Manuela Masiel
Padrinos: Josse Damacio de la Cruz, Raphaela Narsisa

Batch: M60322-7
Film: 279298
Location: Bk 7, pg 15; img 127
Source: https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18447-43687-6?cc=1874591
Index: https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/JHG5-62H

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Can someone tell me what is a Morifco? The clasification of Lazaro Madera in 1758

Published by MADERA_32 –
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Oh my God! This is shocking?

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Published by victorianonavarro (no verificado) – Dom, 2014-06-08 15:10 | Enlace permanente

Comentario

During Colonial times they used to cassify people according to their blood mix (sistema de castas). So a child with one parent Spaniard and the other Black would be a Mulato. A child with one parent Mulato and another Spaniard would be Morisco. They had very complex systems to name these castas, which not always matched, and some had wierd names like "Salta atrás" (jump back), "No te entiendo" (I don't understand you) or "Tente en el aire" (stay in the air). And as Linda says, sometimes they would classify different children from a same marriage under different castas, or people could be clasified under different castas throughout their lifes. In practice it was not an exact science.

http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sistema_de_castas_colonial

Victoriano Navarro

Comentario

He is listed as Morisco and she as Loba.. don't let a record like this concern you.. I have on family with 5 children and they range from Espanol, Morisco, Yndio and Mulato libre. in fact Dad was Yndio and Mom was Espanola..
Linda

On Sunday, June 8, 2014 1:31 PM, "zacatecano020@hotmail.com" wrote:

Oh my God!  This is shocking?  What is a "Morifco or "Morisco"  As I am trying to look up that information since this is the first time to see that word classified on one of my relatives from the past in 1758.  Here is part of the copy of the matrimonio of Lazaro Madera and Juana Micaela Perales in 1758 and I put an arrow over that word:

http://oi61.tinypic.com/2ztaufb.jpg

Lazaro Madera Defunto 1783 caused by Rayo (Lighting) Rancho De Los Madera

Published by MADERA_32 –
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OMG!

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Comentario

Found the matrimonio of the Lazaro Madera and Juana Micaela Perales in the year 1758.

Lazaro Madera and Juana Micaela Perales are the "maternal" ggg grandparents of my grandfather "Antonio Madera Madera" since my paternal great grandparents are Calixto Madera De La Paz and Maria Clemencia Madera. So that makes Lazaro Madera and Juana Micaela Perales my gggg grandparents on that side.

Here is part of the copy of the matrimonio in 1758:

http://oi57.tinypic.com/28vaurp.jpg

Source:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18447-27987-55?cc=1874591&wc…

Lazaro Madera is the son of "Blas Madera and Theresa De Abila"

This is great because now I found another generation "Blas Madera" to keep backtracking.

In 1783 Lazaro Madera passed away from a lightening strike. His wife Juana Micaela Perales passed away at the age of 68 in 1804.

The son of Lazaro Madera is name Marcelo Madera and in the census of 1828 Marcelo Madera is first on the list as

Read full comment ➜

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I found the matrimonio of the daughter of Lazaro Madera and Juana Micaela Perales.

Her name is "Polonia Casilda Madera, Espanola" who married a person from Valparaiso by the name of "Justo De Huizar, Espanol" in 1784:

http://oi60.tinypic.com/abrww5.jpg

Source and be sure to read all of the other paragraphs (pgs 623-625?) in regards to the marriage:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18449-5393-26?cc=1874591&wc=…

Research Digest, Vol 101, Issue 5

Published by Raul_Padilla –
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It looks as though you're looking for the surname De la Lus Ramirez, but it
appears as though De La Lus is part of the first name, Jose de la Lus,
Ramirez looks like the surname.

On Thu, Jun 5,

We are retiring Mundia

Published by jlblonde –
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I just received this email from Ancestry.com

We are retiring Mundia

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Comentario

In addition to Mundia, Ancestry.com is retiring Y-DNA and mt-DNA testing (LegacyDNA), Genealogy.com, myCanvas, MyFamily. This means that when the entire interface retires, the match lists and the ability for users to contact their matches will no longer exist. Users are being strongly encouraged to contact matches prior to September 5th as well as download raw data (csv file) by September 5th. FTDNA has a transfer program for Y-DNA tests for $19. All stored DNA will be be destroyed. Unfortunately, they are not allowing users to upgrade any remaining DNA.

Maria Leocadia De Huizar wife of my Great Great Great Great Grandfather Francisco Madera

Published by MADERA_32 –
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I found the defunto of the wife of my great great great great grandfather Francisco Madera.

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I have found many times the ages change with the record so think of it as an approximate date of birth/death and at baptism. I know my own gr-grandparents were 3 years off on their birthdates on their tombstones. I'm doing a marriage where the civil marriage said they are 20 and 17 and the church marriage says 25 and 15..
Linda in Olympia, Wa.

On Wednesday, May 28, 2014 1:58 AM, "zacatecano020@hotmail.com" wrote:

I found the defunto of the wife of my great great great great grandfather Francisco Madera.  Her name is Maria Leocadia De Huizar, "Espanola" of Rancho Ximulco (Jimulco)  She passed away in the year 1813 and she was 80 years old.  Which then would mean she was born in 1733.  Her husband Francisco Madera is the one that is from Rancho De Los Maderas but she is the one from Rancho Ximulco.  See first pic.  To prove to you she is the wife of Francisco Madera see second pic where Francisco Madera and Maria de Huizar had a son name Juan Venancio Madera, "Espanol" in

Read full comment ➜

Comentario

Thanks for the tip Linda. Will do that.

I was trying to find the defunto of Francisco Madera and now I found the son, "Don Juan Benancio (Venancio) Madera" who passed away in 1820 at age 57 but says he is married to "Dona Juana De La Torre" who is not the mother of my great great grandfather Patricio Madera. Because it was Maria Josefa.

Juan Benancio Madera was born in 1762 so the age of 57 fits. Also Juan Benancio Madera was a member of "Hermanos Cofrades" since he had an Haciento de Cofrades in 1802 at age 40.

http://oi60.tinypic.com/2ynj5uv.jpg

Source:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18449-49227-56?cc=1874591&wc…

Comentario

So she passed away of "Alfrecia" or "Epilepsy"

But payment for the Church service was paid in 10 pesos (assuming in gold pesos). As compared to other people that I have seen in the archives that paid in reales (silver) such as for instance 20 reales.

Comentario

I find there social standing in the number of priests they have serving their funeral mass. I think the most I've seen in Jerez, Zac was 6 priests.
Linda in Olympia

On Thursday, May 29, 2014 10:05 AM, "zacatecano020@hotmail.com" wrote:

So she passed away of "Alfrecia" or "Epilepsy"

But payment for the Church service was paid in 10 pesos (assuming in gold pesos). As compared to other people that I have seen in the archives that paid in reales (silver) such as for instance 20 reales.

Comentario

Linda? I need so more advice?

Since I am trying to locate the defunto record of my great great great great grandfather Francisco Madera but I found his wife's Maria Leocadia de Huizar where she passed away in 1813. There is a line in the document that says:

"Maria Leocadia De Huizar Espanola de Rancho De Ximulco adulta de ochenta anos viuda fue de Francisco Madera."

http://oi62.tinypic.com/2vv0r2v.jpg

The clue "viuda fue de Francisco Madera" which means that Francisco Madera was already deceased in 1813 when she passed away. So I should be searching prior to 1813 right for Francisco Madera's defunto record.

I don't have any luck in finding his defunto record. I may try to locate his marriage record with Maria Leocadia De Huizar to get information about his age or who is parents were.

Comentario

hi, yes it means she is a widow but if she is 80 then there is a chance that he passed away many years ago. You can check the death or burial records but  I've found the marriage information records of their children help a lot in telling an approximate date of death of a parent. Those records tell you if their parents are alive or deceased. If you've found their children marriage or marriage information record that's a huge help to you
Hope I helped a bit.
Linda in Olympia, Wa

On Thursday, May 29, 2014 3:39 PM, "zacatecano020@hotmail.com" wrote:

Linda?  I need so more advice?

Since I am trying to locate the defunto record of my great great great great grandfather Francisco Madera but I found his wife's Maria Leocadia de Huizar where she passed away in 1813.  There is a line in the document that says:

"Maria Leocadia De Huizar Espanola de Rancho De Ximulco adulta de ochenta anos viuda fue de Francisco Madera."

http://oi62.tinypic.com/2vv0r2v.jpg

The clue "viuda fue de

Read full comment ➜

Comentario

I forgot to add it also said she had a high mass  with burial so she was a woman of importance and wealth.
Linda

On , Erlinda Castanon-Long wrote:

hi, yes it means she is a widow but if she is 80 then there is a chance that he passed away many years ago. You can check the death or burial records but  I've found the marriage information records of their children help a lot in telling an approximate date of death of a parent. Those records tell you if their parents are alive or deceased. If you've found their children marriage or marriage information record that's a huge help to you
Hope I helped a bit.
Linda in Olympia, Wa

On Thursday, May 29, 2014 3:39 PM, "zacatecano020@hotmail.com" wrote:

Linda?  I need so more advice?

Since I am trying to
locate the defunto record of my great great great great grandfather Francisco Madera but I found his wife's Maria Leocadia de Huizar where she passed away in 1813.  There is a line in the document that says:

"Maria Leocadia

Read full comment ➜

Comentario

Francisco Madera would have had to have passed away sometime in between the years 1789 and 1813 (where defunto of Maria Huizar indicates she is viuda of Francisco Madera he was already deceased by 1813). So in 1789, Francisco Madera and Maria Huizar were present when their daughter Maria Josefa Madera got married with Juan Cristobal Pinedo:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18567-41742-31?cc=1874591&wc…

And this says that Maria Josefa Madera is the daughter of Francisco Madera and Maria Huizar:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18567-41742-31?cc=1874591&wc…

Comentario

I also found out that my gggg grandfather Francisco Madera and my gggg grandmother Maria Leocadia De Huizar, who are espanoles as it has says on the documents I found on them, were padrinos for a mulatto libre in 1762:

http://oi62.tinypic.com/2hzgv9e.jpg

In the same year of 1762, Francisco Madera and Maria Leocadia De Huizar had a son name "Juan Venancio (Benancio) Madera" Espanol at Rancho De Los Maderas:

http://oi57.tinypic.com/b4e1pz.jpg

Then in 1773, my ggg grandfather Juan Benancio Madera and his sister Maria Josefa Madera were padrinos for an indio:

http://oi59.tinypic.com/doql2u.jpg

Then in 1780, my ggg grandfather Juan Benancio Madera and his sister Maria Josefa Madera were padrinos for a mulatto libre of the Hacienda of San Antonio De Padua:

http://oi60.tinypic.com/vowec1.jpg

Then in 1792, my ggg grandfather Juan Benancio Madera and "Maria Josefa" no last name given have a son name "Patricio Madera"

http://oi57.tinypic.com/2qnts2x.jpg

says, Patricio Madera

Read full comment ➜

Research Digest, Vol 101, Issue 2

Published by barbara –
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Alguien tiene mas.informacion de los Huizar??? Busco a un Marto Huizar de
Valparaiso Zacatecas nacido alrededor de 1880 el era arriero y trabajaba
para la familia Amaro o en donde puedo buscar!!??

Matrimonios 1752 of Huejuquilla Curious about the drawing of bird in book

Published by MADERA_32 –
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I am still trying to find the defunto record of my great great great great granfather Francisco Madera whose wife is Maria Leocadia De Huizar.

Comentarios

Comentario

Here is another bird, this time with a baptism. However, i wonder if it is a calligraphy exercise? Looks a little like a glyph, just the bird's head and some lines or letters under it. Hope someone will take a look. The person in the entry is not on my tree, i am just plain curious.

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18744-23591-19?cc=1883388&wc…

Regards
Denise

Comentario

That one I've seen somewhere else, I just can't recall where, I even remember a discussion about it. I think in this case is a symbol, the glyph, the three "birds" over horizontal lines, and in the bottom the hand pointing at the year.

RJ Quiralte

Comentario

Those drawings are based on calligraphy exercises, you may come across many more, dragons, griffins, lions, etc. They used it to decorate the books, but they learned them at their writing lessons.

RJ Quiralte

Comentario

Thanks RJ, They are so artistic that I wish they could have made a sketch of the village back in those days.

Comentario

Thanks RJ, They are so artistic that I wish they could have made a sketch of the village back in those days.

Comentario

They were in deed good at their writing, but I doubt they could actually draw other than the calligraphy ornamentation, in either case ink and paper was a bit of a luxury still, therefore those (like the bird) are nice findings among the records.

RJ Quiralte

"Le Pasaron Por Las Armas"

Published by rojasdelgado –
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While researching my paternal side, I came across a list of over 20 men and it just says, "Le pasaron por las armas" I looked for a translation it appears that all these men were executed under a firi

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Comentario

Hi Ruben,

Like Gil said it means they were executed by firing squad. I have found similar occurences in Autlán in 1811-1813. In Autlán is says the ones there were executed "pasados por las Armas del Rey," which more clearly indicates that they were Insurgentes, executed by royalist soldiers. Interestingly, among the victims there were members of all castes, including Spaniards. It also lists their widows.

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18536-72-51?cc=1874591&wc=MC…

I have also found documents where people were killed by Insurgents. I will try to find it.

These documents give us a different picture than the one sometimes fostered by textbooks. These scenes are what everyday people saw and experienced.

Keep it up!

Sergio Salés

Comentario

Gil Ramirez wrote:
War of Mexican Independence 1810-1821. Would be interesting to find out which side the 20 men were fighting for. My Great grandfather x6 sided with the Spanish Royal Crown. He was Teniente de Justicia and Comandante de Armas. I can't say he was a soldier because I cannot find a document indicating that. He was killed by the Insurgency in 1812. There were 8 others who died with him on the same day, each one of them with their own entry in the list of Difunciones.

Teniente de Justicia, Comandante de Armas

Published by Gil –
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Gil Ramirez wrote:

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Comentario

Alicia Avelar Olmos de Carrillo
Per the on-line dictionary, this is what I found under teniente, but I didn't find teniente de justicia. It could be a police lieutenant, not a military lieutenant.

teniente
A. - noun masculine and feminine
tenienta SF a veces
1. (military) lieutenant , first lieutenant United States
·teniente coronel lieutenant colonel
·teniente de navío lieutenant
·teniente general lieutenant general
2. (=ayudante) deputy , assistant
·teniente de alcalde deputy mayor
·teniente fiscal assistant prosecutor
B. - adjective
·estar teniente >
** to be deaf

Comentario

I am curious Gil Ramirez. What is the Comandante De Armas?

Because as I was looking through defunto records of our village of Huejuquilla. I found someone who was the "Comandante De Armas" of our village:

His name is "Chris Santos Gonzalez, Espanol" was 60 years old when he passed away in 1820. And it says "Comandante de Armas de este pueblo"

http://oi60.tinypic.com/2a5k7rr.jpg

Source:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18449-52486-18?cc=1874591&wc…

Also in 1814:

"Capitan Don Ignacio Martinez De Murguia" where he was 56 years old, passed away from hidropecia. Left his money to be divided up into the poor. He passed away at "La Hacienda De San Antonio De Padua" under the jurisidiction of our village "Huejuquilla El Alto" in Jalisco Mexico in 1814.

I am not sure what else it says about "esposa?"

I made copy and tried to fit it into one page:

http://oi59.tinypic.com/xgf7kn.jpg

Source starts at bottom of left page then continues on

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Defunto of "Unknown" assalted in Hacienda De San Antonio in 1811

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I saw this one on someone who is 23 years of age that was assalted, "taila una bala en la barriga" it happened in the Hacienda of San Antonio in 1811. He seemed to be from the Rancho De La Cienega.

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Comentario

Zacatecano

This unknown man just run away from the battle in the Hacienda de San
Antonio, the one you related before when you read that 14 people died in the
Guerra. It was the same day and the same battle. He arrived to rancho la
Cienega where he died. they don’t even know which army he belongs to (
realistas or independentistas) . this records do History !!!!

julietamartha

-----Message d'origine-----
De : Research [mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] De la part
de zacatecano020@hotmail.com
Envoyé : miércoles, 28 de mayo de 2014 04:17 a.m.
À : research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Objet : [Nuestros Ranchos] Defunto of "Unknown" assalted in Hacienda De San
Antonio in 1811

I saw this one on someone who is 23 years of age that was assalted, "taila
una bala en la barriga" it happened in the Hacienda of San Antonio in 1811.
He seemed to be from the Rancho De La Cienega. Can't tell what else the
writing talks about:

http://oi58.tinypic.com/157krk7.jpg

Source:

https

Read full comment ➜

Comentario

Thank you Julieta! I did not pay attention to those two defunto records of the 14 that passed away on July 1, 1811 and the other person from Rancho Cienega that also passed away on July 1, 1811 at the Hacienda of San Antonio! On the same day and a war was recorded on the defunto of the 14 that passed away.

I am going to have to note myself to go back to the defunto records and browsed each and everyone on July 1, 1811. Seems like there was a battle at The Hacienda of San Antonio. That Hacienda is the Hacienda that is the closet to Huejuquilla and the ranchos. I am familiar with the area since it is our town. The Hacienda is about only 10 minutes by car. The other Haciendas such as "San Mateo" that was owned by Don Fernando De La Campa y Cos is about 40 minutes on car. Hacienda San Mateo is farther away.

Comentario

Here is another one that is interesting. Instead of creating new topics I may try to put in an existing topic. But this defunto that was a resident of our village of Huejuquilla, Jalisco, Mexico was originally from Cabezon De Liebana, Spain and his name is "Don Mateo De La Madrid" that was 79 years old:

http://oi59.tinypic.com/2quucuv.jpg

Source:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18449-51255-17?cc=1874591&wc…

Cabezon De Liebana is in Northern Spain, the place of his origin:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cabezon_de_Liebana

Comentario

Here is another one that is interesting. Instead of creating new topics I may try to put in an existing topic. But this defunto that was a resident of our village of Huejuquilla, Jalisco, Mexico was originally from Cabezon De Liebana and his name is "Don Mateo De La Madrid" that was 79 years old:

http://oi59.tinypic.com/2quucuv.jpg

Source:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18449-51255-17?cc=1874591&wc…

Manuel Robalcava/Juana Mendoza

Published by lisa –
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In the 1679 Padron for Jalostotitlan/San Juan de los Lagos, there is a Francisco Robalcava and Isabel Avalos with three other names of (Manuel), Joseph, and Juan Robalcava.

Defunto of "Capitan Don Ignacio Martinez De Murguia" 1814 San Antonio De Padua De Huejuquilla

Published by MADERA_32 –
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Found something here. It is the defunto of "Capitan Don Ignacio Martinez De Murguia" where he was 56 years old, passed away from hidropecia. Left his money to be divided up into the poor.

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Comentario

I found this one that is very interesting of a woman by the name of Juana Getrudiz Ramirez, "Espanola" of our village of Huejuquilla, Jalisco, Mexico that passed away in the year 1805 and was 120 years old! "Hizo su disposicion testamentria ante el Capitan "Don Jose Ignacio Martinez De Murguia"

Since she was 120 years old in 1805 would mean she was born in the year 1685!

http://oi60.tinypic.com/21afkgm.jpg

Source:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18449-53054-18?cc=1874591&wc…

Comentario

Another interesting person that seems to have something to do with the military of our village of Huejuquilla, Jalisco, Mexico.

His name is "Chris Santos Gonzalez, Espanol" was 60 years old when he passed away in 1820. And it says "Comandante de Armas de este pueblo"

http://oi60.tinypic.com/2a5k7rr.jpg

Source:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18449-52486-18?cc=1874591&wc…

Relatives or Paisanos from Union de San Antonio municipality (Jalisco)

Published by Juan_Marquez –
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Hello... I am new to site and am starting to do some serious research on my lineage. To start I just wanted to know if there are any fellow relatives or paisanos from the Union de San Antonio area (Tlacuitapan, San Jose de los Reynoso, San Julian, San Miguel el Alto etc.,).

Comentarios

Comentario

Juan,

Aquí Valle de Guadalupe presente. Tu vives en Union de San Antonio o solo
eres de ahí? Tengo muy pocos ancestros que vienen de por aquellos rumbos,
pero si tengo algunos, sobre todo de San Diego de Alejandria, donde sospecho
que de por ahí puede ser mi línea paternal Rodríguez. Tengo algunos Marquez
en mi archivo, quizás coincidamos en algunos de ellos. Los apellidos con los
que estoy también mas relacionados son (en orden cronológico) Rodriguez,
Camarena, Gonzalez, Martin del Campo, de la Torre, Valdivia, Franco,
Hernandez, Valadez, Plascencia, Navarro, entre muchos otros.

Hasta luego,

Ricardo Rodríguez
Valle de Guadalupe, Jalisco

-----Mensaje original-----
De: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] En nombre de Juan
Marquez
Enviado el: Viernes 14 de Marzo de 2008 1:39 PM
Para: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Asunto: [Nuestros Ranchos] Relatives or Paisanos from Union de San Antonio
municipality (Jalisco)

Hello

Read full comment ➜

Comentario

Saludos Ricardo,

Ojala seamos parientas para que me puedas conseguir unas botellas de Casa de Piedra or algun Cabernet de Monte Xanic.. no es broma.

Yo vivo en la Alta California, naci en el D.F. pero mis padres son de Tlacuitpan y San Jose de los Reynoso.

Por los apellidos en tu archivo quiza coincidamos en los Marquez o r Martin del Campo. Tienes un link a tu arbol genealogico?

Comentario

Saludos Juan,

Yo naci en California pero ahora vivo en Valle de Guadalupe. Todos mis
ancestros recientes son de esta bellísima región de Los Altos, sobre todo de
San Miguel, Jalos, Capilla de Guadalupe, Cerro Gordo y por supuesto Valle.

Aun no tengo un árbol en internet pero pronto lo tendre.

En que parte de California vives?

Saludos,

Ricardo

-----Mensaje original-----
De: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] En nombre de Juan
Marquez
Enviado el: Viernes 14 de Marzo de 2008 2:39 PM
Para: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Asunto: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Relatives or Paisanos

Saludos Ricardo,

Ojala seamos parientas para que me puedas conseguir unas botellas de Casa de
Piedra or algun Cabernet de Monte Xanic.. no es broma.

Yo vivo en la Alta California, naci en el D.F. pero mis padres son de
Tlacuitpan y San Jose de los Reynoso.

Por los apellidos en tu archivo quiza coincidamos en los Marquez o r Martin
del Campo.

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Hola Juan ,como estas ? Ojala que bien. Yo te seguro que somos parientes mil veces. My name is Ronnie Reynoso,my grandparents on both sides are from the area of San Julian.Mis apellidos incluye Reynoso,Hermosillo,Perez,Padilla,Magana,Marquez,Martin del Campo,Portillo,Escoto,Gutierrez,de la Torre ledesma,Alvarez Tostado,Munoz,Garcia,Ramirez ect.
IF I was a betting man you are related
Ronnie Reynoso pariente acasi todos de Los Altos> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org> From: jmarquez6@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 12:38:44 -0700> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Relatives or Paisanos from Union de San Antonio municipality (Jalisco)> > > Hello... I am new to site and am starting to do some serious research on my lineage. To start I just wanted to know if there are any fellow relatives or paisanos from the Union de San Antonio area (Tlacuitapan, San Jose de los Reynoso, San Julian, San Miguel el Alto etc.,). > > The surnames in my extended family are Marquez, Martin, Martinez, Martin

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Ronnie,

I sincerely hope not to insult anybody here, but honestly we are more inbred than Apalachians its a small area, and there isn't much population movement.

Its very nice to meet you, although given all the stories I've heard whenever you put people from Tlacuitapan & San Julian in the same room there is bound to be a brawl!

In any case... here are some of my relatives names (also for Sofia's comparison)... as well as where they resided most of their lives.

Armando Marquez Ramirez (Rancho near Tlacuitapan)
Francisco Martinez (Tlacuitapan proper)
Miguel Marquez (San Jose de los Reynoso)
Maria Ramirez de Marquez (San Jose de los Reynoso)
Juan Marquez Munoz (San Jose de los Reynoso)
Maria de la Luz Martin (San Jose de los Reynoso)

Also, Ronnie I don't know if you are related to the Reynoso from San Jose (they are the big landholders in the area) but Ezequiel Reynoso (he was in his early 80's and lived in Los Angeles) just passed away.

Regards,

Juan

Comentario

Hola Juan ,yea its a fact my family is so inbred its not funny. My Reynoso line via Jalos. All the Reynosos descend from 2 brothers Francisco and Diego Reynoso ,parents were Francisco Reynoso (peru) and Mariana Padilla Davila ,who married 2 sisters Josefa and Margarita Renteria. Francisco Reynoso and Josefa Renteria stayed in Jalisco and Diego Reynoso and Margarita Renteria stayed in Zacatecas. my Line of Reynoso are the same as San Jose de Los Reynoso. I'm in contact with a New primo que se llama Rogelio Loza Reynoso who was from San Jose de los Reynoso.It took us about 2 years and made the connection . The Main founder of San Jose de Los Reynoso was Castulo Reynoso who was grandson to my 5th grt- grandfather. Now there is more relationship to my 5th grtgrandfather but to make it simple. I tell people that my ancestors make the apalachian people seem normal. All the people of San Jose are related and any body in the surrounding area(me included). I have been to San Jose an
d met my

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Ronnie,

All I can say is I am so glad to not be the only from such an inbred family.

So that is interesting, I have heard my dad mention Rogelio Loza Reynoso (the Loza's are the other big family from San Jose).

In Los Angeles, I have some Loza relatives but they all grew up in East L.A. In particular, I remember a lady name Rita Loza who is married to an Anglo with a German surname Jim Whit or some similar name.

As I think about it... I believe Rogelio might be related to Rita... any such info?

I am very glad to meet you, I am currently writing an essay on Mexican cuisine and will be writing a small "ethnography" on Union de San Antonio based on an "interview" of my parents.

One of the stories I have heard from San Jose relatives, is that the Reynoso family name comes from Extramadura and was christined to a faithful family that assisted the Spanish crown during the Inquisition. Given the high association of Sephardic roots among people with Portugese-ish last names

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Hola Juan ,well the only thing I know about the Jewish religion connection is that one of my ancestors via a Padilla Davila ancestor - its not a padilla line but one of their grandparents ,I think you can find it in the book Retonos de Nueva Galicia which has a family chart of my ancestor.Other than that I have no knowledge of any Jewish connection. My Grtgrandmothers people were registered in La Union de San Antonio-Portillo,Escoto,Anaya, Hernandez and Vera. The Anayas were classified Indios according to baptismal records.
Ronnie Reynoso parientes acasi todos de Los Altos
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org> From: jmarquez6@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 14:46:13 -0700> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Pariente de Todos> > > Ronnie,> > All I can say is I am so glad to not be the only from such an inbred family.> > So that is interesting, I have heard my dad mention Rogelio Loza Reynoso (the Loza's are the other big family from San Jose). > > In Los Angeles, I have some

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Thanks Ronnie... I bet the Anayas in your family are the same branch as the Anaya's in Tlacuitapan whose descendants are the only ones that still possess Artisinal & deep agricultural know how.

I believe some of them are in L.A. and own the mini restaurant chain Birrieria La Barca... which by the way is outstanding.

Comentario

Hola Juan ,my ancestor Anaya are from year more or less 1807Ronnie> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org> From: jmarquez6@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 16:08:06 -0700> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Pariente de Todos> > > Thanks Ronnie... I bet the Anayas in your family are the same branch as the Anaya's in Tlacuitapan whose descendants are the only ones that still possess Artisinal & deep agricultural know how.> > > I believe some of them are in L.A. and own the mini restaurant chain Birrieria La Barca... which by the way is outstanding.> > > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List> > To post, send email to:> research(at)nuestrosranchos.org> > To change your subscription, log on to:> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org

Comentario

Hola,

Here are some names... any matches?

Armando Marquez Ramirez (Rancho near Tlacuitapan) born circa 1935
Francisco Martinez (Tlacuitapan proper) born circa 1900
Miguel Marquez (San Jose de los Reynoso) born circa 1900
Maria Ramirez de Marquez (San Jose de los Reynoso) born circa 1910
Juan Marquez Munoz (San Jose de los Reynoso) born circa 1900
Maria de la Luz Martin (San Jose de los Reynoso) born circa 1910

Comentario

This is interesting. My grandmother was named Maria de la Luz Martin.
I do not know where she was born, but she lived in Jalos. She married
Nicolas De La Torre. Could this be the same Maria de la Luz Martin?

-----Original Message-----
From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of Juan
Marquez
Sent: Friday, March 14, 2008 1:32 PM
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Are we related?

Hola,

Here are some names... any matches?

Armando Marquez Ramirez (Rancho near Tlacuitapan) born circa 1935
Francisco Martinez (Tlacuitapan proper) born circa 1900
Miguel Marquez (San Jose de los Reynoso) born circa 1900
Maria Ramirez de Marquez (San Jose de los Reynoso) born circa 1910
Juan Marquez Munoz (San Jose de los Reynoso) born circa 1900
Maria de la Luz Martin (San Jose de los Reynoso) born circa 1910

Comentario

Felix, is this Nicolas de la Torre still living in Jalos b abt 1920, he was my mothers uncle and I have a lot of info on De LA Torre
----- Original Message -----
From: Felix De La Torre
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org ; research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Friday, March 14, 2008 1:38 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Are we related?

This is interesting. My grandmother was named Maria de la Luz Martin.
I do not know where she was born, but she lived in Jalos. She married
Nicolas De La Torre. Could this be the same Maria de la Luz Martin?

-----Original Message-----
From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of Juan
Marquez
Sent: Friday, March 14, 2008 1:32 PM
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Are we related?

Hola,

Here are some names... any matches?

Armando Marquez Ramirez (Rancho near Tlacuitapan) born circa 1935
Francisco Martinez

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Comentario

Yes. He is alive and born I believe about 1917. He remarried a woman
from Arandas. I hope this is the same De La Torre because I have had a
difficult time finding any information on my father's side of the
family. I thought that Nicolas De La Torre's father was named Sisto,
too.

-----Original Message-----
From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of Miggy
GUTIERREZ
Sent: Friday, March 14, 2008 1:43 PM
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Are we related?

Felix, is this Nicolas de la Torre still living in Jalos b abt 1920, he
was my mothers uncle and I have a lot of info on De LA Torre
----- Original Message -----
From: Felix De La Torre
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
;
research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Friday, March 14, 2008 1:38 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Are we related?

This is interesting. My grandmother was named Maria de la Luz Martin.
I do

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Comentario

By the way, here is a link you will enjoy. It has quite a few historic
photographs of Jalostotitlan.
http://www.jalosjalisco.com/

-----Original Message-----
From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of Felix
De La Torre
Sent: Friday, March 14, 2008 1:54 PM
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Are we related?

Yes. He is alive and born I believe about 1917. He remarried a woman
from Arandas. I hope this is the same De La Torre because I have had a
difficult time finding any information on my father's side of the
family. I thought that Nicolas De La Torre's father was named Sisto,
too.

-----Original Message-----
From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of Miggy
GUTIERREZ
Sent: Friday, March 14, 2008 1:43 PM
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Are we related?

Felix, is this Nicolas de

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Comentario

Felix, I made some calls. this is the Same Nicolas de la Torre. His first wife was Maria de la Luz martin daughter of Celso Martin & Tia Cuca Perez daughter of Casimiro Perez. Nicolas was my Granfather Merced de la Torre first cousin. son of Sisto whose brother was my great Grandfather Abraham de la Torre b-1856.. Gg was Jose Bentura de Jesus b-July 13, 1817 Santa ana married to Maria Feliciana de Jesus Alvarez b-Nov 27, 1822 Cañada Onda, jalos-- there is more if you need -- I found that Nicolas has brothers Lucio-Antonio-Lalo-Cleofas
----- Original Message -----
From: Felix De La Torre
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Friday, March 14, 2008 2:05 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Are we related?

By the way, here is a link you will enjoy. It has quite a few historic
photographs of Jalostotitlan.
http://www.jalosjalisco.com/

-----Original Message-----
From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:research-bounces@lists

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Comentario

That is it. It is the same family. I remember my Tio Lucio very well. Nicolas also had another brother that I knew as my Tio Chayo (Rosario) who lived in Ashland, Oregon. He died about 10 or so years ago. This is fantastic information. Miggy, my email is fdelatorre@unioncounsel.net if you would like to correspond with me directly and not tie up this site. I would love to learn more about the De La Torre side of my family.

-----Original Message-----
From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org [mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of Miggy GUTIERREZ
Sent: Friday, March 14, 2008 2:25 PM
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Are we related?

Felix, I made some calls. this is the Same Nicolas de la Torre. His first wife was Maria de la Luz martin daughter of Celso Martin & Tia Cuca Perez daughter of Casimiro Perez. Nicolas was my Granfather Merced de la Torre first cousin. son of Sisto whose brother was my great

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Comentario

Scandal avoided! These are different women, as Miggy Gutierrez
disclosed. ; )

-----Original Message-----
From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of Juan
Marquez
Sent: Friday, March 14, 2008 2:36 PM
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Are we related?

=) Unless Abuelo Juan got taken... I think these would be different
women.

Defunto Don Fernando

Published by mendezdetorres –
Foros
Genealogy Research

You can call me Daniel. Genealogy has always been a passion and it requires dedication, each link with a document. Everything carefully cited and documented.

Comentarios

Comentario

Honestly, I do not think it is the same Montes y Vigil family, although anything is possible. The Montes y Vigil family settled in Zacatecas in the XVII century and made their way north settling those areas. A well known lineage that made it's way to New Mexico, numerous people descend from this family. Their ancient origins are in Asturias, where they married the Arguelles y Quinones. Their "Ejecutorias de Hidalguia y Nobleza" can be found in the Real Chancelleria de Valladolid. It is a very old noble line of Asturias.

Daniel MdTC

Comentario

Thanks Daniel for your attention to this one that I found on Don Fernando Arquelles.

Very interesting and just thinking. He was buried in our village of Huejuquilla. Where did he live? He is 20 years old, has the title "Don" seems to have passed away from an accident with his horse. From Asturias, in the document doesn't mention anyone who he is related to or would have made the registration for him.

I wonder where he lived in Huejuquilla? I am definetly going to follow this one.

Comentario

Well right now I am seriously looking and scrolling through archives to try to find more information on my ancestors. Trying to find more generations so I can backtrack farther.

It is so much easier now that I can look through archives online instead of having to go in person to a family research center, order scrolls of microfilm and wait a few weeks.

I am spending hours right now scrolling archives, listening to music as I am reading the archives and also taking breaks here and there to eat something. Also make me a cup of coffee. I am what I would term, "In the zone" right now focused.

I already found some suprises such as my great great great grandfather belonging to a group of "Brothers of Cofrades."

Comentario

I was thinking on some ways to find more information on "Don Fernando Arquelles"

Since he passed away in Huejuquilla in 1797 at the age of twenty and he is from Asturias. Means he was born in 1777. So one idea would be to go back to 1777 in the baptismo records of Huejuquilla and look forward til the day he passed away for any documents to see if he was ever a "Padrino" for anyone in Huejuquilla. That could then give more information such as names of other persons he had been associated with or his residence. And then there is the possibility that maybe he was baptized in Huejuquilla depends on when he came over from Asturias to Mexico.

Mendoza Family - Lagos De Moreno

Published by dmendoza123 –
Foros
Genealogy Research

For those of you doing research into the Mendoza Surname this is the information that I have come across in my research:

Salvador Mendoza - Bruna Gomez (GGGGrandfather Salvador born 1820's?)

Ancestry DNA results

Published by arturdeleon –
Foros
Genealogy Research

The results of my Ancestry DNA are at a standstill pause, while I have been matched with several other that had their DNA done, their responses have been rather negative.

Comentarios

Comentario

You can upload your raw DNA file to www.gedmatch.com where various members
of NuestrosRanchos have uploaded their raw file. I recommend that anyone
that has not uploaded their AncestryDNA.com raw , FamilyTreeDNA Family
Finder raw DNA files, or 23andme.com raw DNA files to also upload their
files to www.gedmatch.com

If you want to find more matches I also recommend that you do a Family
Finder transfer at
https://www.familytreedna.com/landing/atdna-landing.aspxwhere there
are more NuestrosRanchos members. You can also join numerous
DNA projects at FamilyTreeDNA including one that is specific to our region
called Nueva Galicia DNA project.

You should also order a 23andme.com test which is similar to the
AncestryDNA.com and Family Finder but it will give you matches to people
that have not had a AncestryDNA or Family Finder test. It will also give
you your mtDNA haplogroup.

If you have male relatives whose paternal line is from our region of study.
or if that paternal line also left a

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Comentario

For those who have already taken a DNA test with any company like FTDNA , we
also have a group in Facebook at
https://www.facebook.com/groups/nuevagaliciadna/ this is a private group, so
we may require to ask for each person's genealogy, DNA kit number and other
information, since the comments and information to be shared in this group
may seem personal for some, and will be intended only for its members.

Rick Rodriguez

-----Original Message-----
From: Research [mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf
Of Armando
Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2014 1:35 PM
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ancestry DNA results

You can upload your raw DNA file to www.gedmatch.com where various members
of NuestrosRanchos have uploaded their raw file. I recommend that anyone
that has not uploaded their AncestryDNA.com raw , FamilyTreeDNA Family
Finder raw DNA files, or 23andme.com raw DNA files to also upload their
files to www.gedmatch.com

If you want to

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Defunto de 14 Cuerpos Hacienda San Antonio/Huejuquilla 1810 murieron en "La Guerra"

Published by MADERA_32 –
Foros
Genealogy Research

I have been moving along the archive of defuntos of Huejuquilla and San Antonio De Padua looking for the defunto of my great great great great grandfather Francisco Madera who is the husband of Maria

Comentarios

Comentario

Si, fue durante la Guerra de Independencia de Mexico
Curiosamente ese mismo dia 30 de junio 1811 el cura Hidalgo fue fusilado y
decapitado en Guanajuato

JulietaMartha

-----Message d'origine-----
De : Research [mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] De la part
de zacatecano020@hotmail.com
Envoyé : martes, 27 de mayo de 2014 12:48 a.m.
À : research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Objet : [Nuestros Ranchos] Defunto de 14 Cuerpos Hacienda San
Antonio/Huejuquilla 1810 murieron en "La Guerra"

I have been moving along the archive of defuntos of Huejuquilla and San
Antonio De Padua looking for the defunto of my great great great great
grandfather Francisco Madera who is the husband of Maria de Guizar and the
father of Juan Benancio Madera (1762).

I arrived to the year 1810 and by curiousity I ran across this document of
defunto of 14 cuerpos que murieron en "La Guerra" and of Hacienda San
Antonio?

What Guerra? The war of indpendence of Mexico against Spain?

http://oi60.tinypic

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como investigar familias españolas!!

Published by barbara –
Foros
Genealogy Research

HOla ! ya econtre de una rama de mi familia hasta las familias españolas de rivedesella de asturias españa !! pero ya ahi no se como mas investigar !! alguien me puede dar orientacion al respecto??

Dispensas matrimoniales

Published by Salvador94 –
Foros
History, Culture and General Discussion

Hola a todos:

Comentarios

Comentario

Edgar Olguin Diaz

buenos dias a todos

yo tambien quisiera saber donde puedo encotrar las dispensas matrimoniales de nuevo leon y coahuila asi como tambien los testamentos de estos estados mencionados.

alguien me podria ayudar ? como puedo encontrar estos documentos?

necesito las dispensas de villaldama , lampazoz de naranjo,sabinas hidalgo,monterrey,galeana,salinas victoria, estos en nuevo leon y los de coahuila son :monclova, sanbuenaventura, nadadores, saltillo, ramos arizpe, muzquiz, parras, torreon.

agradezco la atencion prestada

que tengan un excelente dia
saludos

Comentario

Hola Salvador, me encuentro en una situación parecida o igual.

Mis sextos abuelos maternos tuvieron unos 13 hijos en Santiago NL a partir de 1762, de 10 que contrajeron matrimonio allí mismo, 6 necesitaron dispensas de consanguinidad y uno por afinidad entre 1790 y 1820 más o menos. Los documentos que tengo de no aportan los árboles genealógicos ni especifican cuál es el vínculo de los contrayentes y no logro encontrar las dispensas en Guadalajara, muy probablemente por no se encuentran allí sino que fueron dispensados en el Obispado de Monterrey que se fundó en 1777. ¿Dónde se pueden encontrar esos archivos? Ojalá que alguien en el grupo nos oriente.

Buena suerte, estaré al pendiente por si encuentro algo te dejo saber.

Jorge Elias
Miami, FL

Published by victorianonavarro (no verificado) – Jue, 2011-05-26 07:44 | Enlace permanente

Comentario

Le recomiendo que llame por teléfono al Archivo Histórico de la Arquidiócesis de Monterrey para ver si ellos tienen las dispensas para los años que busca:
http://www.arquidiocesismty.org/PAGES/gob/comYofci.html

Revisando en famylysearch el rollo de INFORMACIÓN MATRIMONIAL de VILLA UNIÓN, COAHUILA 1760-1918 di con una dispensa matrimonial "con parentesco por afinidad lícita en segundo grado" de uno de mis antepasados. La dispensa es de 1854, trae membrete del Gobierno Eclesiástico del Obispado de MONTERREY y está fechada en Monterrey. La misma viene muy resumida porque no menciona detalles del parentesco, por lo que me gustaría encontrar el original no resumido.

Fui a buscar la dispensa al archivo mencionado en Monterrey y me dijeron que no tenían dispensas para ese año, que tal vez en la catedral. Desde ahí llamaron al archivo de la catedral pero les dijeron que tampoco las tenían. Me dijeron que lo más probable era que estuvieran en los archivos eclesiásticos en Coahuila porque el

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Comentario

Hola Victoriano:

Me da gusto saludarle y le doy las gracias por la información. Por lo que me dice, por experiencia suya, será un tanto difícil conseguir la información adecuada en Monterrey. Yo también tengo varios ancestros donde dice que fueron dispensados por uno, dos o hasta tres parentescos, mas no viene detalladamente su ascendencia genealógica para comprobarlo.
Marcaré de todos modos al Archivo Histórico de la Arquidiócesis de Monterrey, para ver que pueden decirme, espero los de esos años si los tengan.

Le agradezco por su tiempo.
Salvador Agraz

Comentario

These states are part of the Archdiocese of Monterrey, which consists of the dioceses of
* Diocese of Ciudad Victoria founded 1964
* Diocese of Linares founded 1962
* Diocese of Matamoros founded 1958
* Diocese of Nuevo Laredo founded 1989
* Diocese of Piedras Negras founded 2003
* Diocese of Saltillo founded 1891
* Diocese of Tampico founded 1870

The diocese of Monterrey (originally called diocese of Linares) was founded in 1777, and was formed from part of the dioceses Mexico, Michoacan, but mostly from Guadalajara. It initially covered the modern states of Nuevo Leon, Coahuila, Tamaulipas and Texas.

The microfilms of the Diocese of Monterrey are available online at Family Search, but are not as extensive as those of Guadalajara. Matrimonial investigations, for example, date from 1888. Marriage records start much earlier.

The records you are looking for could be in Guadalajara, but I would not expect to find them there as each parish/diocese kept their

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Comentario

Hi George:

I've just read your message, I found your information very helpful. I think you're right, I've been looking for the dispensas of those years and those states in the microfilms of the Sagrada Mitra's archives provided by FamilySearch and I don't find the dispensas for Nuevo León and Coahuila, I do find some of San Luis Potosí, Aguascalientes and Zacatecas but not those, anyway I'll continue searching there a little bit more in order to be sure, or start looking at Monterrey.
Thanks for your help.

Salvador Agraz

Comentario

Attention: George Fulton
Hello George

Does this mean that couples who planned to marry did not have to file a petition of informacion matrimonial? I was hoping to fine one for my forebears, Manuel Romo and Maria Ygnacia Rodrigues, who got married in Nadadores in 1816. I have not been able to locate them in Family Search...Do you have any advice? (Manuel was originally from Aguascalientes).

Regards
Denise Fastrup

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