I don't know how but I erased the year of this marriage dispensation record and can't remember how I got into them, can someone share the link?
thank you.. Linda Castanon-Long
.
Hi,
This is the Guadalajaradispensas link to the record:
http://www.guadalajaradispensas.com/2011/11/1700-1705-fhl-source-film-1…
179 #191 joseph ballexo (cd de mexico) & antonia sid caldera / jerez
And this is the familysearch link:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18377-20540-39?cc=1874591&wc…
The year is 1701.
Best regards,
Victoriano Navarro
Victoriano, thank you so much for taking the time to help me..
Linda Castanon-Long
Hi everyone,
I was looking at a number of pictures of the ex-haciendas of Valparaiso, Zacatecas, Mexico in a picture album of photos.
Dear Group,
My brother recently tested with Nat Geo Geno 2 and his paternal branch is R-Z198. I've uploaded the info to FTDNA and it displayed R1b11a2a1a instead of R-Z198. Where ca
Today I found the verification that R-Z198 in on the same level as L176.2
"*on Geno 2.0....Z198 is also available and is at the same level as L176.2*"
http://tech.dir.groups.yahoo.com/group/R1b-P312-Project/message/5141
In the Y-Haplogroup R SRY2627+ and L176.2+ Project everyone one that has
tested positive for* *L176.2 has also tested positive for Z198.
Z198 and L176.2 are descendants of DF27 which is a descendant of P312 which
is a descendant of M269 (R1b1a2)
If more members of NR did Deep Clade testing we would be able to find more
members with these R1b subclades .
Saludos
Armando
I had read that R-P310 was the parent code to P312. It's great that research is constantly progressing. It's unfortunate that so few of our family members think this a worthwhile endeavor. Would my brother have to retest for any of the advanced tests, or do they use the original sample? The only thing that really keeps me from immediately further testing or joining projects are the costs I would incur. Keep me posted. Thanks for the info. Alice
PS: On that map we we viewing, I was also SO pleased that Santander, Spain was highlighted. My Santelices line came directly from Santander to Mexico.
--- On Sat, 1/12/13, Armando wrote:
From: Armando
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Haplogroups
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Saturday, January 12, 2013, 5:17 PM
Today I found the verification that R-Z198 in on the same level as L176.2
"*on Geno 2.0....Z198 is also available and is at the same level as L176.2*"
FamilyTreeDNA should be able to use the existing sample that they have from
Geno 2.0. It is the same lab that does the testing for both. Now that I
found the confirmation that Z198 and L176.2 are the same you don't
necessarily need advanced testing for Y-DNA. If you plan on joining the
SRY2627+ and L176.2+ Project a 37 marker Y-DNA test would probably be best
before joining.
A relative of yours that has the Santelice surname through the paternal
line would have to get Y-DNA tests in order for you to know if they are
also R1b and which subclade if so. Not everyone from Santander, and
surrounding areas, is from the same subclade or even the same haplogroup.
Saludos,
Armando
On Sat, Jan 12, 2013 at 11:38 AM, Alice Blake wrote:
> I had read that R-P310 was the parent code to P312. It's great that
> research is constantly progressing. It's unfortunate that so few of our
> family members think this a worthwhile endeavor. Would my brother have to
> retest for any of the advanced
Hi Alice,
Go to this website and type in your brother's results:
http://www.hprg.com/hapest5/hapest5b/hapest5.htm
It will only give you the base of his halpogroup.
I'm almost certain FTD DNA has an R1b group, I'm not sure about Nat Geo
Geno 2, but it's worth investigating. I joined my halpogroup group via
FTDNA and this group sent me my complete halpo group designation. If you
can join the R1b group via FTDNA I would do that as I'm sure it would have
more resources.
Juan
On Wed, Jan 9, 2013 at 11:34 PM, Alice Blake wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> Dear Group,
> My brother recently tested with Nat Geo Geno 2 and his paternal branch is
> R-Z198. I've uploaded the info to FTDNA and it displayed R1b11a2a1a
> instead of R-Z198. Where can I find a site that
> gives equivilants, allowing me to research on other sites using either of
> these nomenclatures. I've googled R-Z198 and there appears to be a lot of
> opinions, controversy, and uncertainty. Thank you for any help. Alice
Juan,
That website only helps a person learn what major haplogroup they belong
to. In Alice's case she already knows her brother belongs to major
haplogroup R1b since R1b11a2a1a is a subclade of R1b. The R-Z918 is a new
SNP and it's location on the tree is still under investigation -
http://www.isogg.org/tree/ISOGG_YDNA_SNP_Index.html
You can see all of the R1b subclades at the ISOGG (International Society of
Genetic Genealogy) tree http://www.isogg.org/tree/ISOGG_HapgrpR.html
You can also see some of them at
http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_R1b_Y-DNA.shtml#R1b-subclades
You can find out what your subclade is by getting a Deep Clade test with
FamilyTreeDNA.
Saludos
Armando
On Thu, Jan 10, 2013 at 10:04 AM, Juan Aguayo
wrote:
> Hi Alice,
>
> Go to this website and type in your brother's results:
>
> http://www.hprg.com/hapest5/hapest5b/hapest5.htm
>
> It will only give you the base of his halpogroup.
>
> I'm almost certain FTD DNA has an R1b group, I'm not sure about Nat
This sounds like an interesting workshop with Ilan Stavans at the National
Yiddish Book Center in western MA, the weekend of April 19. It is a little
pricey, though.
Bill,
That information helps me tremendously. And, I'm working on tracing Michaela Macías and her parents, Juan de Santiago and María Gertrudis Gómez, right now.
Christopher,
You've read the grandparents names correctly. I also spent some time looking for them on FamilySearch but couldn't find any additional information. It is possible that not all the records for "Parroquia de Jesús" in Guadalajara have been indexed, in which case you would have to check record-by-record, book-by-book, or wait until they're indexed. A very tedious and time consumming job. Maybe someone in this forum can tell you what the status of the indexing project is for "Parroquia de Jesus in Guadalajara". Sorry I cannot be of any help on that subject.
NOTE: Try not to include a complete thread of messages with every answer. Messages are posted on the website, so they should be as concise as possible. It's okay to include the previous message or part of it, especially if it has a question that you're answering.
BILL FIGUEROA
----- Original Message -----
From: iChristopher94526@yahoo.com
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thursday, January 10
Hola Members/Parientes, I was researching a Luis Antonio Munoz whom I found -born 20 of Feb.
Ronnie,
It's Sanchiz, not Sanchez. Let Javier Sanchiz Ruiz know what you have
found. He will update the info on Geneanet.org
Javier probably received the info from someone else and published it.
Regardless of who it was, everyone makes mistakes. The nice thing about
Geneanet is that the info can be corrected. Errors in books can't be
corrected without publishing a new edition and the author is hard to get a
hold of most of the time.
Regards,
Armando
On Thu, Jan 10, 2013 at 3:00 PM, Ronald Reynoso wrote:
>
>
> Hola Members/Parientes, I was researching a Luis Antonio Munoz whom I
> found -born 20 of Feb. 1740 in San Juan de Los Lagos .Bautismos -1737-1745
> Image # 179, Born to Juan Joseph Munoz and Maria Ana Ramirez.This Luis
> Munoz married a Francisca Xaviera Gonzalez 14 of Jan. 1768 in
> Jalostotitlan-Matrimonios-1748-1768 Image #682.
> Another Luis Antonio Munoz I found -
> Born 20 of July 1738 in San Juan de los Lagos-Bautismo 1737-1745 Image
> #84. Son of Manuel Munoz de
Hello,
Hi Kristine--
Could you post a link to the WWI record? I have Ancestry, so I'd like to see the spelling. In the US, lots of Mexican towns were misspelled. For example, in one case, my great-grandfather's place of birth was spelled Acindor-- it ended up being Asientos.
Rosalinda
Hello Rosalinda,
Here is the link to the record:
http://search.ancestry.com/iexec?htx=View&r=an&dbid=6482&iid=CA-1530910…
In case that link doesn't work, here is also the link to the FamilySearch site to the same document: https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/KZVV-916
Thank you!
Kristine
Hi Kristine--
I looked at the name of the location, and I tried finding it here: http://biblio2.colmex.mx/bibdig/dicc_cubas/base3.htm , but it is not there. My best guess is it either was misspelled or misunderstood by the recorder in some way, or it's a a place that was established later than the Cubas book.
I wish I could help more! Have you looked at his death certificate or obituary? Maybe it lists it there.
Rosalinda
Hello Rosalinda,
Thank you for helping! I have also looked through that list, and agree that it may have been misspelled. I do not have any more information for Tranquilino, (death certificate or obituary), he has been a difficult brick wall for me to get past and its quite frustrating. haha!
I will keep on with my search. =)
Thanks again!
Kristine
I did find this in the Social Security Death Index:
Name: Tranqueli Rangel
SSN: 566-03-1034
Last Residence: 90706 Bellflower, Los Angeles, California, United States of America
Born: 6 Jul 1892
Died: Jun 1976
State (Year) SSN issued: California (Before 1951)
He wasn't in the California Death Index, which suggests he died outside of California. However, you can order a copy of the Social Security application; for more information, go here: http://www.ssa.gov/foia/html/foia_guide.htm . Scroll down to "Make a Request Online." It does cost money, though, but he may very well have listed his parents and hometown in the application.
Good luck!
Rosalinda
I've had a major crash through this brick wall!! Very exciting! Thanks to FamilySearch, I have found Tranquilino's marriage certificate, which shows where he is from, and also the names of his parents!! So for this side of my family, we are from Silao, Guanajuato, Mexico.
Regarding the death record you found, I have also found that same one before, but the birthday's do not match. I know it is common for mistakes in dates, but I am just not sure. I might order it anyways. Haha!
Thank you so very much for your help, it's very much appreciated =)
Hope to talk to you again,
Kristine
Kristine,
I am so glad you broke through that brick wall! I love that feeling. I have people in Guanajuato, too (although that is off-topic for this group). Good luck!
Rosalinda
Hello,
Yes, Thank you. It is a great feeling indeed! (and yes, off topic here) :)
Thank you again for your help.
Onto more searching. :)
Kristine
I have been researching my ancestors and I found Teodoro Valdes born in "Estancia de San Nicolas". Does anyone know if this is the same place as the "Estancia de Los Berumen"?
La Estancia de San Nicolás es la Estancia de los Berumen, llamada en papeles antiguos como "El Madroño", "San Nicolás del Rincón", "La Estancia de los Valdeses".
Sanchez-Castellanos
I have seen a San Nicolas in Monte Escobedo, Zacatecas and It is near Jerez.
I always assumed that "vecino" and "residente" meant the same thing, referring to the place an individual resided.
In some cases, being a "vecino" meant that you are an established neighbor of a certain town, and being a "residente" meant that you are living in a particular town only for a short time. For example, if a parent was raised and was currently a neighbor of la Agua Dulce, then they would be a "vecino". If they traveled to, and temporarily resided at, Atotonilco el Bajo for baptism, marriage, or burial services, then they would be a "residente".
In your case particularly, it meant that the parents of the child were originally living in "la Agua Dulce" and where temporarily residing at Atotonilco el Bajo during the time of the baptism.
V.Q.C.
According to the RAE dictionary, one of the definitions of vecino is: "2. adj. Que tiene casa y hogar en un pueblo, y contribuye a las cargas o repartimientos, aunque actualmente no viva en él."
So you may be a vecino of a town if you have a house there and pay taxes, even if you don't live there. According to the definitions of vecino and vecindad in the same dictionary, one can be a "medio vecino" of one place by paying half of the taxes, and then one's cattle can graze in the town's pastures.
I guess if you are a resident of a town you are also a vecino, but you may as well be a vecino of another place without being a resident.
http://www.rae.es/rae.html
Best regards,
Victoriano Navarro, vecino de Torreón
The line I am researching is heavily documented down to Diego de Lomelín and his wife, Gerónima de Liebana y Velasco, by many baptisms of their (at least) eight children between 1692 and 1715, and b
Javier Sanchiz Ruiz has the parents of Diego de Lomelín as Manuel Lomelín Mendoza and Josefa Pérez Maldonado.
http://gw5.geneanet.org/sanchiz?lang=es&p=diego&n=lomelin+perez
I believe this is also what is found in Retoños de España.
Neither cite a source for this information.
Saludos
Armando
Hola, Ronnie y Armando,
My thanks to both of you for responding to my post. I have seen Sanchiz Ruiz' pages on GeneaNet, but the Vasquez information is new to me. Documentation is critical here, of course, but I shall incorporate the information as a guide to future research.
Thanks again.
Saludos,
Lawrence Bouett
Hola Lawrence , In "Jose luis Vazquez's book -Genealogia de Nochistlan- Chapter 28 page 96 there is a Diego Lomelin y Munoz Cabeza de Hermosillo. It states that Diego is the son of Joseph Lomeli y Gonzalez de Hermosillo and Micaela Gonzalez de Hermosillo. It does not say whom he married, I don't know if he is the one you are seeking.
Ronnie Reynoso
Which Church records should I search for a 1781 Baptism account of Gertrudis Herrera born in Rancho Maria de la Torre, Zacatecas?
For Maria de la Torre you need to look in the Colotlan records. The
following page has two children being born in Maria de la Torre in the 1781
time period:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-19361-27596-43?cc=1874591&wc…
3883
joseph
=========================
Joseph Puentes
Clean@h2opodcast.com
http://h2opodcast.com/vsse.html
> -----Original Message-----
> From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org [mailto:research-
> bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of rvr_jr@msn.com
> Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2013 3:23 AM
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] What Church Records?
>
> Which Church records should I search for a 1781 Baptism account of
Gertrudis Herrera
> born in Rancho Maria de la Torre, Zacatecas? I've looked through Momax
(that is where I
> found her marriage record), and Zacatecas without any success. There
seems to be quite a
> few options.
> TIA,
> Roy
Thanks to everyone who responded...my search continues.
I have seen a Rancho de la Torre while going through the Tepetongo and Jerez church records.
I don't remember which one for sure.
Barbara
On Jan 3, 2013, at 12:22 AM, rvr_jr@msn.com wrote:
> Which Church records should I search for a 1781 Baptism account of Gertrudis Herrera born in Rancho Maria de la Torre, Zacatecas? I've looked through Momax (that is where I found her marriage record), and Zacatecas without any success. There seems to be quite a few options.
> TIA,
> Roy
I've seen rancho de Padre Torre and rancho de la Torre in both Jerez and Tepetongo records so I would search in both if I were you.
Linda in Boulder City
________________________________
From: Barbara Andrews
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thursday, January 3, 2013 1:18 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] What Church Records?
I have seen a Rancho de la Torre while going through the Tepetongo and Jerez church records.
I don't remember which one for sure.
Barbara
On Jan 3, 2013, at 12:22 AM, rvr_jr@msn.com wrote:
> Which Church records should I search for a 1781 Baptism account of Gertrudis Herrera born in Rancho Maria de la Torre, Zacatecas? I've looked through Momax (that is where I found her marriage record), and Zacatecas without any success. There seems to be quite a few options.
> TIA,
> Roy
To any of the members ; If you are interested in old trains from Zacatecas and Coahuila in the form of a 2013 calendar send me an e-mail and I will send it to you .PLEASE , Send the request TO ME D
Joseph
I have done indexing directly. I would rather do
Jalisco/Zac/Aguas.....with you. How can I join?
Mickey
In a message dated 1/7/2013 2:41:28 P.M.
wow, i didn't know that nuestros ranchoes had an indexing group. i would like to join.
Dear Joseph happy new year 2013.
I would like to have that Power point presentation
best regards
Cristóbal Villalobos
De: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Para: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Roots in Michoacan, Morelia, 1500s
Hi
Found this amazing family tree in the Morelia records:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18784-15792-41?cc=1883388&wc…
From:
I should have mentioned:
Starts with Don Jose Manuel de Santa Anna as the root (most recent individual) of the tree.
And - I know Michoacan is off topic, but I am following a lead on Petronila de Moctezuma, who possibly lived for a while in the area as a child.
Regards,
Denise
Denise,
Indeed this is an amazing document.
Thanks for sharing it!
Victoriano Navarro
Hi Victoriano
You are most welcome! I do realize that people moved around a lot, so perhaps someone in this forum has connections to the Morelia area...Michoacan borders on Jalisco, and Morelia lies between Guadalajara and Mexico City.
Regards
Denise
Denise
In looking through the Spanish archives (PARES) for Moctzuma's descendants (and the elusive Petronila), I have found some trees like this. Occasionaly they would be in color, they were really quite amazing.
On the Petronila quest ...
The Codex Chimalpahin has an interesting statement concerning, apparently, five other children of Fernando Sotelo de Moctezuma (he was the son of Diego Arias de Sotelo) without naming them. The Codex clearly states that there were 10 children (the first five are the names normally seen), and that the other's names are unknown; they were living in "Michhuacan" 2ith their father; "Michhuacan" I assume is Michoacan. See volume 2, pp. 107-111, "Lineage of the Valderrama de Moteuccumas". Have you seen this?
I never found Petronila in the pedigree charts that I found in PARES.
George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA
Hello George
I had in fact seen a reference to this codex in one of your previous comments in this forum, and I have tried to get it through the Danish Library system, however, they will not send it. So it will have to wait until I can travel to Copenhagen (I live in Denmark). I have really enjoyed reading your contributions, and I appreciate your serious approach to research.
I have (for fun mostly) looked up some information in Pares bases on directions provided in this forum. Difficult, but I managed!
The search for info in Michoacan(Morelia, the large town near Tarimbaro) stems from my idea that if Diego Sotelos children were living on his (wifes) encomienda,which he stated during his trial for the Martin Cortes conspiracy, they might have been confirmed in a church there. The Spanish is hard for me to read, but I am hoping I would recognize the name Sotelo or Moctezuma if I saw it....
In any case, there ought to be some Sotelo de Moctezumas there somewhere, even if not
Denise
Denmark! The internet truly makes this a small world! I discern from your profile that Copenhagen is a pretty substantial journey for you.
There is a book on Michoacan families that has a moderate amount of information about the Sotelo family "scattered" throughout it. It is called: ANDARIEGOS Y POBLADORES. NUEVA ESPAÑA Y NUEVA GALICIA (SIGLO XVI).
You can download the entire book as a pdf. Just do a google search for "Andariegos y Pobladores." This should come up as the first item on the list. It is 666 pages and the book is fully searchable.
Although the focus is Michoacan, it does have information on families relevent to Los Altos.
George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA
George,
Thanks for the tip! I will get to it after work, the book is one I was not aware of. And you are right, I live as far in Copenhagen as you can get and still be in Denmark.
I just came back from the US with a couple of other books on early colonial Mexico (Nahuas and Spaniards; The Encomenderos of New Spain; P. de Fuentes' The Conquistadors). Right now, this is where my interest lies. Reading about this era has answered questions I had about the movements of people on my family tree. I am not descended from the Sotelo de Moctezuma family (so far as I know) but the mystery attached to Petronila caught my imagination.
Regards
Denise
Iv'e been having such a hard time reading a marriage document of my ancestor Gertrudis Baez i can't quite read where she is from the letters are to bunched up to each other.Please if anyone can help
Juan Gutiérrez de Hermosillo was the son of Miguel Gutiérrez de Hermosillo and Catarina Cortes Delgadillo.
Another member of NR, Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez, is also looking for the parents of that same Miguel Gutiérrez de Hermosillo. See http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/20067
The name Catarina (also spelled Catalina) Cortés Delgadillo is common. It seems there were at four women with the same full name from close to the same time period. One was the daughter of Diego Delgadillo and Petronila de Isla. The other was the daughter of Luis Delgadillo and Josefa de Isla. Another was the wife of Mateo de Rubalcava. The fourth was the wife of Miguel Gutiérrez de Hermosillo.
Armando
I think it says: "orig(a) de la Ciudad de Zacat(s)", with the letters in parenthesis appearing on superscript. Without abbreviations it should be "originaria de la Ciudad de Zacatecas", so I think she was from there.
Victoriano Navarro
Victoriano,
Thank you so much for your assistance.I just have one more question so i have these ancestors from cuquio,jalisco and they got married in the year 1682, and the earliest they have on Familysearch is 1711?Any suggestions.
Hi Abram,
The records might be in the books of a nearby parish if they didn't have a full time priest in the town and some priest form a nearby town had to go to perform marriages. You can keep checking on Familysearch every 6 months or so to see if they have already indexed some records with your ancestors. Besides that, you may look for them in the Guadalajaradispensas website, if they were related or if some of their descendants were related and got married, they may have some information about them.
Regards,
Victoriano Navarro
Good Evening Grupo,
Hope all had a good holiday season. A resolution of mine is to get back to my genealogical research even though brick walls can be so frustrating!
The link is to the "report"
Luis Valdés
algunas correcciones que pueden ayudar:
...Maestro de escuela Don Martín Arrambide, vecino de este cuidad y ser a propósito para el ministerio, por tanto su Sa (¡Señoria?) Ilustrísima lo nombra por tal maestro de escuela, encargándole mucho la buena educación de los niños de dicha cuidad que ocurriesen a su escuela y manda al (Vical Juez quide???) que cada seis meses visite la escuela y procure que los niños estén bien educados en las oraciones, doctrina cristiana, santo temor de dios y buenas costumbres, y en caso de que haya algún bienhechor que deje alguna renta para ayuda de mantener al maestro, cuide mucho de su principal y que permanezca la obra pía y así mismo procure con esfuerzo que los padres de aquellos niños que tuviesen posibilidad, contribuyan a dicho maestro con lo que fuere justo como es de razón...
Era costumbre que algunas personas con dinero al morir dejaban parte de su herencia en una Obra Pía. El capital (principal) invertido en algún negocio y las
Gracias Luis, casi lo atine!!
Sent from my iPhone
On Jan 5, 2013, at 9:57 AM, valdesla@prodigy.net.mx wrote:
> Luis Valdés
> algunas correcciones que pueden ayudar:
>
> ...Maestro de escuela Don Martín Arrambide, vecino de este cuidad y ser a propósito para el ministerio, por tanto su Sa (¡Señoria?) Ilustrísima lo nombra por tal maestro de escuela, encargándole mucho la buena educación de los niños de dicha cuidad que ocurriesen a su escuela y manda al (Vical Juez quide???) que cada seis meses visite la escuela y procure que los niños estén bien educados en las oraciones, doctrina cristiana, santo temor de dios y buenas costumbres, y en caso de que haya algún bienhechor que deje alguna renta para ayuda de mantener al maestro, cuide mucho de su principal y que permanezca la obra pía y así mismo procure con esfuerzo que los padres de aquellos niños que tuviesen posibilidad, contribuyan a dicho maestro con lo que fuere justo como es de razón...
>
> Era costumbre que algunas personas
Barbara and Luis,
Thank you very much. Your help allowed me to get a better understanding of what was being said.
Alice
--- On Sat, 1/5/13, valdesla@prodigy.net.mx wrote:
From: valdesla@prodigy.net.mx
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] clarification please
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Saturday, January 5, 2013, 5:57 PM
Luis Valdés
algunas correcciones que pueden ayudar:
...Maestro de escuela Don Martín Arrambide, vecino de este cuidad y ser a propósito para el ministerio, por tanto su Sa (¡Señoria?) Ilustrísima lo nombra por tal maestro de escuela, encargándole mucho la buena educación de los niños de dicha cuidad que ocurriesen a su escuela y manda al (Vical Juez quide???) que cada seis meses visite la escuela y procure que los niños estén bien educados en las oraciones, doctrina cristiana, santo temor de dios y buenas costumbres, y en caso de que haya algún bienhechor que deje alguna renta para ayuda de mantener al maestro, cuide mucho de su principal y que
Hello Alice,
I gave that paragraph a little time and I did not see where your ancestor's nationality or age was given. I won't interpret what I read, but this is what it looked like to me.
...Mallestro de escuela Dn. Martin Arambide vecino de este cuidad y ser aproponto para el aministeris por tanto su santa almas se nombra for tal mallestro a escuella en Cargandole mucho la buena educacion de los minors de tal cuidad que ocurriessen a su escuela y manda al Vical Juez quide que cada sies meses viale(I think its suppose to be vijale) la escuela y procure que los ninos esten bien educados en los oraciones, doctrinas christiana santo temor de dios y buenas costumbres y en caso de que aiga algun bien echos que dese algunas para alluda de mantener al mallestro cuide much de sus prinsipal y que permanesca la obra pa ? mesmo procure con esfuerso que los paones de aquellos ninos que tubierren posibilidad contribuigan a dicho mallestro con lo que fuere justo como es de rason...
Not sure how
Hello Barbara,
Thanks so much for your response. Since I'm not educated in Spanish, much less old Spanish, I'm not sure what it all means. Arrambide is to visit the school every six months to make sure students are learning? At the end, I get the impression the bishop is asking the students to pay the teacher? Very confusing. I appreciate your effort. Alice
--- On Sat, 1/5/13, Barbara Andrews wrote:
From: Barbara Andrews
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] clarification please
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Saturday, January 5, 2013, 5:08 AM
Hello Alice,
I gave that paragraph a little time and I did not see where your ancestor's nationality or age was given. I won't interpret what I read, but this is what it looked like to me.
...Mallestro de escuela Dn. Martin Arambide vecino de este cuidad y ser aproponto para el aministeris por tanto su santa almas se nombra for tal mallestro a escuella en Cargandole mucho la buena educacion de los minors de tal cuidad que
Hi Alice, It sounded to me that he was being appointed to teach the children of the poor (paones) in the town of Cargandole. He is being charged with having someone go every six months and check on the progress to make sure the children are well educated in all christian doctrine. He is also being charged with the task of making sure that the children continue to keep up their education, and yes, I think the last part is saying that some of these children may actually be able to contribute to assist said teacher and pay back fairly what is right.
Although I can read the words, some words have different meaning back in those days than what we know them to mean today. However, I believe that to be the gist of what is meant.
Good Luck
On Jan 4, 2013, at 9:57 PM, Alice Blake wrote:
> Hello Barbara,
> Thanks so much for your response. Since I'm not educated in Spanish, much less old Spanish, I'm not sure what it all means. Arrambide is to visit the school every six months to make
Thank you so much, Barbara. It's good to know I'm on the right track. Alice
--- On Sat, 1/5/13, Barbara Andrews wrote:
From: Barbara Andrews
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] clarification please
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Saturday, January 5, 2013, 6:29 AM
Hi Alice, It sounded to me that he was being appointed to teach the children of the poor (paones) in the town of Cargandole. He is being charged with having someone go every six months and check on the progress to make sure the children are well educated in all christian doctrine. He is also being charged with the task of making sure that the children continue to keep up their education, and yes, I think the last part is saying that some of these children may actually be able to contribute to assist said teacher and pay back fairly what is right.
Although I can read the words, some words have different meaning back in those days than what we know them to mean today. However, I believe that to be the gist of
Here is an article that says that old photographs/images of Mexico can be seen online:
http://www.milenio.com/cdb/doc/noticias2011/714278c31aa03b5768df1cc41cb…
The link:
Francisco Garcia Salinas (1786-1841) Secretaria de Hacienda. Originally from Jerez, Zacatecas, Mexico.
I have had extraordinary success in conducting research on a friend's (primarily) Jalisco genealogy, much of it back to the late 16th- and early 17th-Centuries; but there remain several brick walls th
Since you have been stumped for more than a year and a half, this is where autosomal tests could come in handy. They provide a list of matches to autosomal DNA. Everyone in the list is a relative, the downside is that they don't always have a completed tree and they don't always respond. However, sometimes they just don't know how to complete their tree and since you know how to do that then you might find the connection between them. Sometimes it might be along a line you already have completed, but if it isn't then it is probably one the missing ancestors' line. I can provide you personal examples if you would like to see them.
The three companies are -
Family Finder with FamilyTreeDNA (highest response rate)
Ancestry.com DNA test (Genetic Ethnicity can be way off. Medium response rate)
23andme.com (Lowest response rate. No information on the match is available unless they respond. It has the best ethnicity breakdown)
Information in parenthesis is per the info found in the
Armando,
Thank you for the suggestion; I hadn't really thought so much about DNA testing. The line I am researching is that of a friend in Los Angeles, both of whose parents are from Guadalajara—hence, my Jalisco interest. My own line includes only 3/16 'Californio'—from México, Costa Rica, Spain, and Venezuela, but it is that line with which I identify most closely in my own genealogy. (My Costa Rican 2X-great-grandparents founded a community in Los Angeles that is still thriving and active.)
I will suggest the DNA route to my friend to gauge her interest; that may be a way to overcome one or more of the current brick walls.
Saludos,
Lawrence
for jose navarro & juana flores, this what i could find on familysearch
https://familysearch.org/search/records/results#count=20&query=%2Bfathe…
by the way the cities of ponictlan, and ocotlan are nearby zapotlan el rey
http://www.e-local.gob.mx/work/templates/enciclo/jalisco/pres.htm
you find those three cities in the region 4 map.
not sure how to help you on the perfecto gonzales lineage
Thank you for the tip; the births in that FamilySearch search, however, are 35–40 years too early, since Macedonia Navarro's age at her marriage in 1884 was given as 20 years, which makes her birth year about 1864.
Lawrence Bouett
Joseph Puentes, My Family Tree is too large to upload into it. Is there anyway you can fix it to accomodate my 11,000+ individuals Tree?
Joseph de Leon
date on this marriage record