I have recently bought and checked out several great books for my research on my paternal side. But, the latest book I bought has me questioning the help and information I have taken from previous books and online searches.
I am researching the couple Manuel Gomez and Catalina de Mendoza in los altos de Jalisco (Jalostotitlan). I have them as the parents of Juana Gomez de Mendoza, who was married to Domingo Lomelin. Anyway, I originally had Catalina's father and mother as Rodrigo Olivares and Maria Hurtado de Mendoza. Quite a few books seem to point in that direction. However, if I am reading it correctly, this newer book seems to say that Catalina's parents were actually Cristobal Olivares and Mariana (Maria) de Mendoza. AND that the Maria de Mendoza that was married to Rodrigo de Olivares was actually A SISTER of the Catalina de Mendoza.
If I am reading it correctly, the author of this second edition mentions that he too also believed that Rodrigo de Olivares and Maria Hurtado de Mendoza were the parents of Francisca Hurtado de Mendoza (who is another SISTER of Catalina), married to Francisco Gutierrez Rubio,
so that would have made them Catalina's parents too. BUT after being presented with a testimony located in San Luis Potosi, he now believes that Francisca's (and therefore Catalina's parents) are Cristobal Olivares and Mariana (Maria) de Mendoza.
Has anyone else come across this issue?
Sandra
Manny,
What information I do have is in line with what you presented. I don't have the same amount but what I do have does not conflict.
How did you confirm Ana Sanchez was married to a Juan Becerra? I haven't been able to locate her husband.
Alex
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Hi Alex,
It’s funny that you ask that, because now that I look at what I have, while there are several dispensas that establish Ana Sanchez de Mendoza as the daughter of Toribio Hernandez de Arellano and Isabel de Mendoza, none of them explicitly state that she was married to Juan Becerra, only that she was the mother of Juan Becerra, who was married to Catalina Galindo. I guess it’s just naturally assumed that Juan Becerra was her husband. Maybe someone else has it sourced?
I’ve seen his name appearing in records:
On 21 Feb 1569, he was present during a cabildo (council meeting), and he was given the title “regidor.”
On 30 Aug 1590, he was present at the parish church door, when a towncryer announced that Juan Garcia de Santa Ana was to be granted some land (left image, second paragraph); Toribio Hernandez was present during one of the announcements, and gives a statement that appears in the right image, bottom. You’ll see names of other early residents on the same page.
I seem to
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Manny,
Thanks for the update. I have a feeling your assumption is correct but I was wondering if you had anything I didn't know about. Thank you also for the new references1
Alex
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Thank you, gentlemen, for your help! I truly appreciate your replies.
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This is great information! Thank you all. At the same time, I am now very confused. I think I have a better understanding of the connection between the families in Jalisco and the families in Puebla. The testament helps support that. Now the big question is (ok I have several)... who are the parents of Mariana de Mendoza? I see on wikitree that she is shown as the daughter of Toribo Hernandez and Isabel de Mendoza, but I'm not sold on that connection with out something substantial to back it up. I say that because I understand the "Diccionario genealógico de las familias alteñas" (Gutiérrez-Hurtado de Mendoza) names the children of Toribio and Isabel as Ana Sanchez de Mendoza, Gabriel Sanchez, Juana Bautista, Ysabel de Mendoza, and Marta Sanchez de Mendoza. However, it fails to name a daughter named Mariana or Maria. Again, that's my understanding, but I could be wrong.
The following text is also found within the publication Retoños de España en la Nueva Galicia: v. 1. Diccionario
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Too add even more to the confusion there is this record that has many of the same names that we have been discussing:
Ejecutoria del pleito litigado por Juan de Olivares, vecino de Toro (Zamora), con Francisca Rodríguez Capellana, viuda de Cristóbal de Oliva ...
Ejecutoria del pleito litigado por Juan de Olivares, vecino de Toro (Zamora), con Francisca Rodríguez Capellana, viuda de Cristóbal de Olivares, curadora de sus hijos, sobre hacer cuenta por inventario de todos los bienes dejados por Alonso de Olivares, para proceder a su división
reference code:ES.47186.ARCHV//REGISTRO DE EJECUTORIAS,CAJA 1412,54
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I went back to look at the records I have for the four sisters, Catalina, Francisca, Isabel and Ysabel (I deliberately spell her name with a Y to help me distinguish between the two).
Here's what I found:
Dispensa confirms Francisca (cc Francisco Gutierrez Rubio) & Isabel (cc Luis Padilla) are sisters:
For Josefa Padilla (Francisca) & Joseph Jimenez (Isabel)
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-X4J1-J?i=223&wc=3J48-M…
Dispensa confirms Ysabel (cc Juan Jimenez) and Isabel (cc Gonzalo Ramirez) are sisters:
For Miguel Hernandez de Rueda (Isabel) & Maria Macias Valadez (Ysabel)
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-629H-7L?i=208&wc=12512…
Dispensa confirms Catalina (Manuel Gomez) & Isabel (Luis Padilla) are sisters:
For Joseph Jimenez (Catalina) & Juan de la Mota Padilla (Isabel)
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-X4J1-J?i=223&wc=3J48-M…
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Since I don’t descend from them, I haven’t really researched the Olivares’ that much, but only as collateral lines. That said,
Rick asked: Do you know how Alonso/Alfonso Olivares is related to them?
No, I don’t know.
Rick asked: Were Juan and Cristobal Olivares related?
I don’t know.
For the children of Toribio Hernandez de Arellano cc Isabel de Mendoza, I have:
- Ana Sanchez de Mendoza cc Juan Becerra
- Mariana de Mendoza cc Cristobal de Olivares
- Gabriel Sanchez de Mendoza cc Isabel Sanchez de Lara
- Isabel Sanchez de Mendoza cc Alvaro de Ornelas
- Juana Bautista Sanchez de Mendoza cc Alonso de Quezada
- Marta Sanchez de Mendoza cc Juan Sanchez de Lara
I have the wife of Cristobal Olivares listed as “Mariana de Mendoza,” because that’s how her name is written when she appeared as a witness in the trial against Padre Alonso Lopez de Espinar, which I discussed in this thread.
For the children of Cristobal de Olivares cc Mariana de Mendoza, I have:
- Maria de Mendoza cc
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I would like to thank Sandra for bringing up this question regarding the parents of Catalina Mendoza. In order to answer this question we must search out all primary sources on the subject, staring out with the testimony located in San Luis Potosi.
Cristobal Olivares and Mariana (Maria) de Mendoza are also the parents of Isabel Mendoza that is married to Gonzalo Ramirez. This is confirmed by A “testimonio” by Domingo de Lomelin.
Here is part of the “testimonio.”
“Este dicho dia mes y año dicho para Dicha ynformasion queda Gonzalo de Hermosillo ordenante presento por testigo a domingo de lomellin español vecino desta juridision del cual el dicho Sr bicario resibiyo juramento que hiso por dio nuestro sr y la señal de la crus socargo del cual prometio desir berdad de lo que supiere y se le fuere preguntado y siendole por el tenor del ynterogatorio dijo que conose al dicho Gonzalo de Hermosillo desde que nasio y sabe ques yjo lijitimo de Sebastian Ramires y de Maria de Hermosillo a
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Cristobal de Olivares cc Mariana de Mendoza and Rodrigo de Olivares cc Maria de Mendoza are 2 different couples. Here’s Rodrigo de Olivares’ testamento, dated 12 Oct 1633 in San Luis Potosi. He was born in Puebla de los Angeles, Puebla, son of Juan de Olivares cc Francisca Rodriguez. His wife, Maria de Mendoza, was the daughter of Cristobal de Olivares and Mariana de Mendoza, of Lagos. They had been married for about 30 years when he submitted his will. This is explained on img422.
Catalina Hurtado de Mendoza and Francisca Hurtado de Mendoza were also daughters of Cristobal de Olivares cc Mariana de Mendoza.
Manny Díez Hermosillo
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Hello Manny
Do you know how Alonso Alfonso) Olivares is related to them? Alfonso de Olivares was married to Josefa Esparza de Sotomayor. She is a descendant of lope Ruiz De Esparza and Ana Francisca Gabai Sotelo Moctezuma. Coach Tom Flores descends from Alfonso Olivares and Josefa.
Were Juan and Cristobal Olivares related?
Looking through my notes I found that you had previously provided me with the information that Rodrigo and Cristobal were two different people. Yet I still have many questions about this family as Bernabe is clearly the son of Rodrigo. Francisca and Isabel are the daughters of Cristoval. Who are the parents of Catalina?
Thanks,
Rick A. Ricci
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Cristobal and or Rodrigo