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Victor, I think your idea of sharing the genealogical information found in various books is a great idea. Then if someone wants to read more of the book for him/herself, they can order the book or borrow it. I have a very old book, parts of which I will transcribe and send to the group if there is any interest in it. It was given to me in the 1960's in Mexico City by my husband's aunt, a profesora. She told me it would provide me a very concise picture of the history of Mexico, since I told her I knew nothing of my father's homeland. I think she may have used the book in her classes. She taught English, so I don't know. The book is called "Historia de Mexico". The frontispiece says "Apuntes de Historia de Mexico (Edicion Privada) 1951, Impreso por Editores E Impresores, Beatriz de Silva, S. A., Avenida Juarez 104, Mexico, D. F." It has no authors listed. It has a bibliography and an Indice that is really just a table of contents. I was hoping for an Index like I'm used to that lists names, places, etc. in alphabetical order. It covers quite a lot in its 221 pages produced in very small font (another reason I am having trouble reading it). It has several "cuadros sinopticos". It is in three parts and starts with prehistoric times, "Mexico Precortesiano", and goes through "Mexico Colonial" and ends with "Mexico Independiente". It describes the major Indian tribes, the conquistadores, virreyes, razas, castas, occupations, society, intellectual pursuits, the arts, the missionaries, settlements, revolutions, battles, Inquisition, government, accomplishments, etc. The book is falling apart and its pages have turned brown and brittle. It also stinks, and I cough a lot when trying to read it. I find I can understand just about everything it says (which happens to me in other languages---I can read and understand just about everything, just can't think fast enough on my feet to speak in those languages). I have it sitting by the furnace outlet. Usually this dries up and dissipates the mold that is causing me to cough. Emilie Garcia Port Orchard, WA ---
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Hello Victor:
I know this was addressed to Joseph, but I couldn't help but overhear! It sounds like a wonderful set of ideas. Book reviews are good because most of us have limited time and to be directed to good, useful or interesting books is critical. On the other hand, it would be a real service to catalog vital information from certain books so that everyone doesn't have to search through the same books. It would be a great reliable bank everyone could draw from. But we have to give credit where credit is due....Alicia did get this started.
Isn't it great? The group weaves in and out but is never stagnant. The group is like a great tapestry. From the bottom you see a lot of apparently disconnected threads. But, from the top, it all comes together into a great design!
My work is wonderful but very
stressful. I coordinate volunteer services for the terminally ill, my second career after 38 years in education. At the end of the day, I am sometimes emotionally drained but I kick off my shoes and head for the computer to see what everybody has to say. It is refreshing. Sometimes I smile at the polite exchanges. Sometimes I wonder. But it is always motivating. Then I am ready for the next day. Thanks.
stressful. I coordinate volunteer services for the terminally ill, my second career after 38 years in education. At the end of the day, I am sometimes emotionally drained but I kick off my shoes and head for the computer to see what everybody has to say. It is refreshing. Sometimes I smile at the polite exchanges. Sometimes I wonder. But it is always motivating. Then I am ready for the next day. Thanks.
Mary
"v.h.villarreal" <raices_regias@...> wrote:
"v.h.villarreal" <raices_regias@...> wrote:
Joseph,
I've thought of something similar but instead of getting a group
together to simply comment about or review a history book which is
very good, to take it one step further and create a searchable
database with all the data of genealogical relevance.
Something
similar to what we were doing with "The Colotlán Census"
from the Archivos Españoles where each team member gets assigned a
chapter or section of a book and as he/she is reading it enters the
who, when, where and what data into a previously agreed form.
When everybody gets their part done it would be a simple task to
concatenate all the parts into a single searchable database. Then
we'd select another book and do the same and so on.
The other part of the idea is to have a user interface that you can
access online where one would select a book's title from the database
and then be able to search for a person's name and get a list of all
the instances that the name appears and the associated events to it.
You would also be able to filter by dates and read all the persons
included in a selected period, some sort of timeline.
With an application like that we would not only learn about history
but we'd be accumulating data to
be mined later with ease for our
genealogical purposes. I don't think any copyrights would be
infringed by extracting the "data" this way out of a book.
Of course there would have to be some criteria for the book's
selection process. We would have a list of "candidate" books and then
by consensus make a selection or maybe there could be several teams
working on their own selected book projects. "Sumaria Relación" is a
book that should be in such a list as well as many other history books
from colonial times. What do you think? I have already toyed around
with a possible database structure.
Victor
--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, Joseph Puentes <makas@n...> wrote:
>
>
>
> Alicia Carrillo wrote:
>
> > Victor and Ed,
> >
> > The reason I chose to use this quote is because the topic was on
> > historical novelas and or movies.
My recollection was that in times
> > past many movies and novelas were created with this thematic matter.
> > It is not that I agree or disagree with it, my opinion is not of
> > any relevance as it is not well informed either way. The two of you
> > appear to have much better information and anecdotal data than I
do. I
> > appreciate your inputs and comments and for my part enjoy when two
> > diverging views are presented with facts or data to represent each
> > point of view.
> >
> > Please continue to enlighten us when ever possible. Since joining
this
> > group I have been reading as much as possible on the history of
Mexico
> > at different time periods.
> >
> > That might be something we could do as a group, provide more names of
> > books and texts that each of us feels would be enlightening to the
> > group
as it relates to our research. You know what they say,
> > several people might read the same material and come away with
> > differing opinions. I would love to belong to a Latino/Mexican
> > literary group so that we could hold open discussions. I guess I am
> > dreaming but if you don't have dreams you are not truly living.
>
> dreams come through with action. here is how you do it. get together
> with those Rancho Members right in your area and pick a book to read or
> and get together quarterly to review the book. put a notice up in the
> family history center you attend and the others in the SF bay area (you
> could mail them to the others unless you want to make a visit).
>
> just an idea.
>
> joseph
>
> >
> > Take care,
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dreams come through with action. here is how you do it. get together
--
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Victor and Ed,
The reason I chose to use this quote is because the topic was on historical novelas and or movies. My recollection was that in times past many movies and novelas were created with this thematic matter. It is not that I agree or disagree with it, my opinion is not of any relevance as it is not well informed either way. The two of you appear to have much better information and anecdotal data than I do. I appreciate your inputs and comments and for my part enjoy when two diverging views are presented with facts or data to represent each point of view.
Please continue to enlighten us when ever possible. Since joining this group I have been reading as much as possible on the history of Mexico at different time periods.
That might be something we could do as a group, provide more names of books and texts that each of us feels would be enlightening to the group as it relates
to our research. You know what they say, several people might read the same material and come away with differing opinions. I would love to belong to a Latino/Mexican literary group so that we could hold open discussions. I guess I am dreaming but if you don't have dreams you are not truly living.
to our research. You know what they say, several people might read the same material and come away with differing opinions. I would love to belong to a Latino/Mexican literary group so that we could hold open discussions. I guess I am dreaming but if you don't have dreams you are not truly living.
Take care,
Alicia Avelar Olmos de Carrillo
"v.h.villarreal" <raices_regias@...> wrote:
"v.h.villarreal" <raices_regias@...> wrote:
--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, Alicia Carrillo <alliecar@p...> wrote:
>
> Victor,
>
> I have taken these quotes from pages xxvii.
>
> En los ultimos años del siglo muchos de los hijos y nietos de
conquistadores estaban reducidos a la miseria. Formaban o pretendian
formar una especie de aristocracia que
desdeñaba todo comercio,
granjeria o trabajo honesto y faltandoles ya las encomiendas, se
alampaban a los empleos con tal furia que no dejaban respirar a los
virreyes y aun sofocaban a la corte con diluvio de memoriales y
relaciones de meritos.
>
> Para todo se creian aptos por solo su abolengo. Eran en suma, una
nube de vagos con humos de grandes señores que veian de reojo a los
españoles llegados despues de la conquista porque con mejor acuerdo se
dedicaban a trabajar en el comercio o en la labor de la tierra. De su
industria sacaban comodidades que los de alcurnia de conquistadores
veian con envidia, y la desahogaban con morder despiadadamente a los
que llaman advenedizos, aprovechando el lado ridiculo de algunos
embusteros arrogantes que llegaban contando maravillas de sus riquezas
y linajes cuando a legua descubrian la burda tela de su baja y
estrecha cuna. Asi comenzaba desde temprano el odio
entre españoles y
criollos. Este hecho que señala Icazbalceta se fue generalizando y
acentuando dia tras dia.
>
> While I agree with you that this is not the primary focus of the
book it does allude to this phenomenon early on in the history of Mexico.
>
> Alicia
>
Alicia,
I know that you have taken those quotes from the preface to the book.
I think it was very unfortunate for the publishers to have chosen
such a person to write that introduction full of personal attacks to
the author and erecting himself as the sole authority and judge of
those who lived thru a very complex period in the history of the New
Spain. That was far from being an objective historical analysis.
If everyone had been "arrogant and lazy vagrants" we wouldn't have
such an exceptional compilation of historical information in our
hands. Besides if it wasn't
for those creoles that he despises so
much México wouldn't have become an independent nation when it did.
Read the book, Alicia, and form you own opinion. Then come back and
read the preface again and see if you and Mr. Ernesto de la Torre
still think alike.
Victor
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