matrimonios tecolotlan 1720-1790

>
>
> hola,
Navegando por los registros de matrimonios de Tecolotlan, Jalisco.

Comentarios

Comentario

Hola Paty:

Muchas gracias, toda mi línea de mi abuelo paterno es de ahí. Alguna vez me topé con ese índice, pero la verdad es que no lo utilicé mucho porque casi todos o todos los matrimonios vienen indexados, la cuestión es la ortografía, que a veces no encuentro la base de datos y ya cuando checo bien resulta que lo escribieron de otra manera.

Te agradezco de nuevo por el link, ya había olvidado que existía.

Saludos

Tlajomulco? & Guadalajara trip

Happy New Year to all Nuestros Ranchos Researchers.
I am excited that I will be traveling to Mexico in March
and was hoping to do some research on the family of

Comentarios

Comentario

Hola! Yo vivo cerca de Tlajomulco y antes de aventurarte a hacer el viaje te recomiendo sepas exactamente hacia donde dirigirte, pues el municipio de Tlajomulco es bastante grande y no se cual sea el area de tu interes. En cuanto el peligro del narcotrafico, no creo sea el mayor problema, pues en cualquier parte del mundo habita el peligro y aquí en Guadalajara es bastante tranquilo, pese a lo que se dice en los noticieros. Si gustas nos comunicamos por e-mail cualquier duda que tengas y con mucho gusto puedo ayudar a guiarte, recomendarte o aconsejarte y puedas sacar el mejor provecho a tu viaje, sobre todo por ser solo 5 dias.
Todo lo mejor!

Hello! I live near Tlajomulco and before venturing to make the trip I recommend you know exactly where to go, as the town of Tlajomulco is quite large and no matter the area of your interest. As the danger of drug trafficking, I do not think is the biggest problem, as anywhere in the world lives in danger and here in Guadalajara is fairly quiet

Comentario

Hello
What a great treat!!! What a helpful lady!

Mickey

In a message dated 1/16/2012 4:22:51 P.M. Central Standard Time,
verodamian@hotmail.com writes:

Hola! Yo vivo cerca de Tlajomulco y antes de aventurarte a hacer el viaje
te recomiendo sepas exactamente hacia donde dirigirte, pues el municipio de
Tlajomulco es bastante grande y no se cual sea el area de tu interes. En
cuanto el peligro del narcotrafico, no creo sea el mayor problema, pues en
cualquier parte del mundo habita el peligro y aquí en Guadalajara es
bastante tranquilo, pese a lo que se dice en los noticieros. Si gustas nos
comunicamos por e-mail cualquier duda que tengas y con mucho gusto puedo ayudar a
guiarte, recomendarte o aconsejarte y puedas sacar el mejor provecho a tu
viaje, sobre todo por ser solo 5 dias.
Todo lo mejor!

Hello! I live near Tlajomulco and before venturing to make the trip I
recommend you know exactly where to go, as the town of Tlajomulco is quite
large and no matter

Comentario

Alicia
I agree, the Hotel Mendoza felt very secure. They obtained cabs etc for
us.
Mickey

In a message dated 1/16/2012 1:49:15 P.M. Central Standard Time,
alliecar@pacbell.net writes:

I have stayed at both hotels and while they are both well situated in
central Guadalajara, the Hotel Mendoza offers better amenities, it's next door
to the main plaza. It feels more secure in that they are more attentive to
the tourists needs in terms of security, taxi service, restaurants, etc.

Alicia

________________________________
From: Raquel Ruiz
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Monday, January 16, 2012 11:28 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Tlajomulco? & Guadalajara trip

I've also stayed at the Hotel Fenix (2x), but not recently. It was
recommended by relatives in Guadalajara as a well-situated,
reasonably-priced hotel. Its not far from the cathedral. I recall the
staff being helpful, but don't recall if they spoke English. We were
pleased with it

Comentario

Hi
I have stayed at the Hotel Mendoza, great...located exactly where you need
to be....wish I were going!!
Mickey

In a message dated 1/15/2012 7:29:42 P.M. Central Standard Time,
angelina@markleweb.com writes:

Hello,

I went to Guadalajara in 2009 and felt perfectly safe. My sister flew in
from Washington state and I flew in from California - I took a taxi to
Hotel
Fenix near the Cathedral where my sister was waiting. I don't recall the
pricing, other than it was reasonable. From there we went to Colima met up
with family and had the time of our lives. Since you are on limited time
schedule, I would suggest taking taxis instead of buses, just make sure
you
agree to a price upfront. As for safety, it is no different than other big
cities, travel during the day and don't flash too much money or valuables.
Mexico has had more than its share of violence recently, but as a general
rule Jalisco and Colima seem to be safer than the northern states,
especially

Comentario

I've also stayed at the Hotel Fenix (2x), but not recently. It was
recommended by relatives in Guadalajara as a well-situated,
reasonably-priced hotel. Its not far from the cathedral. I recall the
staff being helpful, but don't recall if they spoke English. We were
pleased with it.
Erlinda's advice re money is good wherever one is traveling. If you go,
please report on your experiences!
Raquel H. Ruiz

Comentario

I have stayed at both hotels and while they are both well situated in central Guadalajara, the Hotel Mendoza offers better amenities, it's next door to the main plaza. It feels more secure in that they are more attentive to the tourists needs in terms of security, taxi service, restaurants, etc.

Alicia

________________________________
From: Raquel Ruiz
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Monday, January 16, 2012 11:28 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Tlajomulco? & Guadalajara trip

I've also stayed at the Hotel Fenix (2x), but not recently.  It was
recommended by relatives in Guadalajara as a well-situated,
reasonably-priced hotel.  Its not far from the cathedral.  I recall the
staff being helpful, but don't recall if they spoke English. We were
pleased with it.
Erlinda's advice re money is good wherever one is traveling.  If you go,
please report on your experiences!
Raquel H. Ruiz

Comentario

Hello,

I went to Guadalajara in 2009 and felt perfectly safe. My sister flew in
from Washington state and I flew in from California - I took a taxi to Hotel
Fenix near the Cathedral where my sister was waiting. I don't recall the
pricing, other than it was reasonable. From there we went to Colima met up
with family and had the time of our lives. Since you are on limited time
schedule, I would suggest taking taxis instead of buses, just make sure you
agree to a price upfront. As for safety, it is no different than other big
cities, travel during the day and don't flash too much money or valuables.
Mexico has had more than its share of violence recently, but as a general
rule Jalisco and Colima seem to be safer than the northern states,
especially for tourists.

I'm excited for you.

-Angelina-

-----Original Message-----
From: nbperez@att.net
Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2012 2:46 PM
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Tlajomulco? & Guadalajara

Comentario

just my experience.  I went to Mexico in 2003 with a relative and her husband who spoke Spanish.. We landed in Guadalajara and took the taxi ($20) to the Hotel Mendoza since it had been recommended as safe to us, it was abt $105 a night for 3 people in 1 room.  It was close to the main Cathedral and is next door to a small church also close to markets.  The man at the desk told us to always get a quote on cab fare before getting in and to let them call the cab for us.  We traveled to Jerez, Zacatecas by bus abt 4 hours and cost abt $22. Very clean and comfortable.  We did all our traveling by bus with no problems.  When we got a cab and wanted to drive around we agreed on a price for his time. 2 hours cost us $10 in Ciudad Zacatecas.  We stayed close to our hotels at night and didn't carry lots of luggage, an overnight bag for 18 days actually and got photocopies of our documents and never kept money in our wallets.. we took out what we thought
we would need each day, never flashing

Comentario

I forgot to add one more thing abt traveling in Mexico.  I was surprised how many places did not take credit cards!  Be sure to get your money exchange somewhere where you are not watched  and have your money put in an envelope so others cannot see how much you got. Be sure to get to Mexico with Mexican money on your person already for cab fare and to eat. Also photocopy your passport and leave it somewhere safe and never carry your passport around with you.
just sharing experience..
Linda  

The lax researcher - that's me

When things get hectic, I tend to let several days worth of postings go unread until I make the time to go back and read them. Consequently, I always seem to find many entries of great interest.

Fw: Piracy?

Claudia, creo que tu comentario, abarca el verdadero proposito de N.R.

Me pueden dar la liga de parroquias del estado de Aguascalientes

Los molesto con la liga de el estado de Aguascalientes.

Comentarios

Tlajomulco, Guadalajara trip

Thank you so much to: Linda, Mickey, Angelina, Alicia, Raquel
& Veronica for your advice and recommendations for hotels
in the Guadalajara area. I am especially grateful to

Comentarios

Comentario

Do you by any chance know the parents, paternal and maternal grandparents of Francisco Sanchez Flores? Thanks.....

----- Original Message -----
From: nbperez@att.net
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2012 7:40:14 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Tlajomulco, Guadalajara trip

Thank you so much to: Linda, Mickey, Angelina, Alicia, Raquel
 & Veronica for your advice and recommendations for hotels
in the Guadalajara area. I am especially grateful to
Veronica who lives near Tlajomulco and volunteered guidance
in my search.
Dr. Francisco Sanchez Flores, born in Tlajomulco in 1910, was
known as "Pancho Panelas" in the mariachi & folkloric dance world.
He was also a noted painter of indigenous art and I believe has artwork
in exhibition in the Regional Museum in Guadalajara. I would love to
visit a cultural center named after him in Tlajomulco, as well as a
school. Maybe Veronica could find their locations for me as it would
 be very exciting to

Comentario

Hello Ruben,
The parents of Dr. Francisco Sanchez Flores are:
Jesus Sanchez Guerrero & Esther Flores. Paternal
grandparents were Marcelina Guerrero Zepeda &
Francisco Sanchez. Maternal grandparents were
Miguel Flores & Maximiana Saldana.

Although I can go further back, my main goal is to
research more recent family history. For instance,
I have been unable to locate marriage info for
Dr.FS Flores (perhaps he never married), or his uncle
Dr. Francisco Sanchez Guerrero, born in 1860 in Guadalajara,
and died in 1924. My hope is these records will definitely
point me in the right direction to connect with my grandmother.
If you go to the "latest images" feature, pg. 3, of NR, you will find
3 photos of the Guerrero family I am searching, including a description.
(The Nicolas family photos are not mine).

Veronica, thank you for the website articles you sent me. I actually
already had those and at least 10 others. Unfortunately, after carefully
studying the photo, I now think it is

Comentario

Efectivamente, varias instituciones en Tlajomulco llevan el nombre de Francisco sanchez, como escultor hizo obras en otras ciudades. Estare encantada de ayudarte en el reencuentro de tu ancestro. Aproximadamente en una semana aprovechare a vicitar el municipio y te contare que encontre referente a las instituciones que llevan su nombre.
Aqui hay un enlace de un lugareño que muestra Tlajomulco de una forma mas natural y puedes apreciar el monumento a Francisco sanchez Flores

Indeed, several institutions are named Tlajomulco Francisco Sanchez, as a sculptor he works in other cities. I'll be happy to help in reuniting your ancestor. About a week to take advantage vicit the town and tell you that I found regarding the institutions that bear his name.
Here is a link that shows a local Tlajomulco in a more natural and you can see the monument to Francisco Sanchez Flores:

http://www.taringa.net/posts/info/2800807/conozcan-mi-pueblo-tlajomulco…

Biography: http://www.museocjv.com

Comentario

I too am grateful for Veronica,

It's people helping other people in need that makes this group so wonderful.

Nancy, good luck in your travels to Mexico. Tell us all about it upon your return.

Suerte!
Alicia

________________________________
From: "nbperez@att.net"
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2012 7:40 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Tlajomulco, Guadalajara trip

Thank you so much to: Linda, Mickey, Angelina, Alicia, Raquel
& Veronica for your advice and recommendations for hotels
in the Guadalajara area. I am especially grateful to
Veronica who lives near Tlajomulco and volunteered guidance
in my search.
Dr. Francisco Sanchez Flores, born in Tlajomulco in 1910, was
known as "Pancho Panelas" in the mariachi & folkloric dance world.
He was also a noted painter of indigenous art and I believe has artwork
in exhibition in the Regional Museum in Guadalajara. I would love to
visit a cultural center named after him in Tlajomulco, as well as a

López de Castro

Aver si alguien que ha investigado por ahí me puede ayudar en esta búsqueda. Hace días entronqué con estos López de Castro.

Catholic Church records

Does anyone know if the Mexico, Catholic Church records on Familysearch is down?  I was on it earlier, but now can't seem to get back on neither on Explorer or Firefox. 
Thanks so much,  Alice

Comentarios

Comentario

Alice

If the site was down earlier today, it is now back up (this posting is at 8:49 PM). I tried a couple of different states/towns/collections, and all was OK.

George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA

Comentario

Good Evening George,
Yes!  I'm back in business.  Thanks so much.   Alice

--- On Mon, 1/16/12, gpf13@aol.com wrote:

From: gpf13@aol.com
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Family Search
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Monday, January 16, 2012, 4:57 AM

Alice

If the site was down earlier today, it is now back up (this posting is at 8:49 PM). I tried a couple of different states/towns/collections, and all was OK.

George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA

Help on a record

It sounds like he was the one who registered her as his daughter and gave him her last name. This often ocurrs when two people live together, though not marry still recognizes his natural child.

Comentarios

Comentario

Hola Daniel:

Se me hace un poco más fácil escribirte en español, sabiendo que también lo hablas. Nunca en todo mi tiempo de genealogista he podido descifrar los padres de la persona que ha dicho que fue hijo de padres no conocidos ni cuando dicen ser hijos naturales, que sólo mencionan a la mamá. Tengo una buena amiga, tía lejana, que sorprendentemente con mucho esfuerzo pudo con estas similares circunstancias que te digo en uno de sus antepasados de línea directa de su segundo apellido, lograr sacar el nombre del padre y abuelos cuando el registro sólo decía el de la madre.

En una ocasión, ví una dispensa donde al principio el contrayente decía ser hijo de padres no conocidos, pero cuando uno de los testigos denuncia el parentesco entre los novios, vuelve a declarar el novio y menciona a sus padres aunque sí era hijo natural, además que conocía muy bien por donde le venía el parentesco con la pretensa. Con esto sabemos que la gente sí sabía de quienes eran hijos y por

Comentario

Thank you, Daniel, so I think I made the right decision. I needed to be
sure. :-)
Esther

On Sun, Jan 15, 2012 at 3:14 PM, Daniel Mendez de Torres Camino <
mendezdetorres@hotmail.com> wrote:

>
> It sounds like he was the one who registered her as his daughter and gave
> him her last name. This often ocurrs when two people live together, though
> not marry still recognizes his natural child. Most times when this would
> not occur, it would list the mother and padre desconocido. I recently
> learned that another reason for marriages when mentioned was "de padres no
> conocidos" was because the person refused to identify their parents so they
> would not have to go through the dispensation process, etc especially when
> consanguinity was obvious.
>
> Daniel Mendez de Torres Camino
>

Church Records, Aguascalientes, Sagrario, Matrimonios 1817-1819, image 132

New Year's greetings to all.

Comentarios

Comentario

Hi Raymond,
Is says that both the bride and groom are "de esta villa" or "from this village", so they were from the then Villa de Aguascalientes. The amonestaciones were read on May 1, 2 and 3, so I expect the Información Matrimonial would be dated May or April.
Best regards,
Victoriano Navarro

Comentario

Which kind of clarification do you need? I think it says:
May 12, 1819, marriage of Olayo Medrano, son of Juan Ma. Medrano & Rita Martines; with Dolores Gascon, daughter of Pedro Gascon & Rosalia Esparsa. Witnesses, Juan Valades & Matiano Fuentes.
Regards,
Victoriano Navarro

Comentario

Thanks Victoriano,
I couldn't make out the names of all parents, that helps. I also would like to know where the bride and groom are from, if possible. Also, how long before the wedding would the Matromonial Investigation appear?
Thanks in advance.

Raymond Medrano

On Jan 14, 2012, at 10:01 PM, mnavarrovillalobos@yahoo.com.mx wrote:

> Which kind of clarification do you need? I think it says:
> May 12, 1819, marriage of Olayo Medrano, son of Juan Ma. Medrano & Rita Martines; with Dolores Gascon, daughter of Pedro Gascon & Rosalia Esparsa. Witnesses, Juan Valades & Matiano Fuentes.
> Regards,
> Victoriano Navarro

Mexican Hot Chocolate

I subscribe to a newsletter from Replacements.com, and recently they had an article about antique chocolate pots, and it included the history of chocolate.

Comentarios

Comentario

Hi Emilie,
Molinillos still exist and are available at Mexican mercados.  You reminded me that it's time to head downtown to Mi Tierra's restaurante y panaderia and sip some of that great hot chocolate they make and enjoy it with a fresh chamuco or polvoron.   It gets cold here, too!
Alice

--- On Sat, 1/14/12, Emilie Garcia wrote:

From: Emilie Garcia
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Mexican Hot Chocolate
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Saturday, January 14, 2012, 8:40 PM

I subscribe to a newsletter from Replacements.com, and recently they had an article about antique chocolate pots, and it included the history of chocolate.  I was intrigued by a recipe they included:

     "the original cocoa beverage comes from the Mayans and Aztecs, and was often a mixture of ground cocoa beans, water, wine, and peppers.  It did not take long for the Spaniards to begin heating this blend and sweetening it with sugar to suit their tastes".

     "the first published recipe for a chocolate

HELP ON READING THIS MARRIAGE DOCUMENT

Iv'e been trying to read this document for the past 2 hours and only found 10 words with help of my mom.So it would be awesome if some one can please translate this document for.

Comentarios

Comentario

TRONCO
Joseph María Pérez Sotelo y María García = They married each other.

Ignacio Pérez........1........Ma. Deseana Pérez = They are their children, so they are brother and sister. Each one married to someone else not shown here.

Ma. Refugio Pérez......2......Ma. Sebastiana Yáñez = Both female, they are cousins and their granddaughters. Each one married to someone else not shown here.

Antonio Armas........3.........Ma. Luisa Durán = They are second cousins and their great-grandchildren. Each one married to someone else not shown here.

Felipe Armas........4.........Leonarda Lozano = They are third cousins, their gg-grandchildren, and they married each other.

Joseph María and María García are the parents of Ignacio, who is the father of Refugio, who is the mother of Antonio, who is the father of Felipe (all the names in the left column)

Joseph María and María García are also the parents of Deseana, who is the mother of Sebastiana, who is the mother of Ma. Luisa, who is the mother

Comentario

En la Iglesia Parroquial de Nochistlan a trece de mayo de 1879 yo el Presbítero Don Rafael G Portugal teniente de Cura con licencia parroquial case y vele in fascie Ecletia a Felipe Armas, soltero de 21 años de edad, originario y vecino de la Jabonera, de esta feligresía, hijo legitimo de Antonio Armas finado y de Bernarda Suares que vive, con Leonarda Lozano, célibe, de 20 años de edad, originaria y vecina del mismo punto, hija legitima de ¿¿Pablo?? Lozano y de Luisa Duran que viven. Dispensados por el Ilustrísimo Señor Arzobispo por impedimento de consanguinidad de cuarto grado igual como se ve en el decreto inserto al frente de esta partida, previos los consentimientos necesarios y las diligencias que prescribe el Santo Concilio de Trento, sus amonestaciones leídas inter Misamm solemnia en tres días festivos que lo fueron el 27 de abril, 4 y 11 de mayo, de las que no resultó impedimento alguno aun pasado el término legal, así como el examen en la doctrina cristiana y las

Comentario

[Correction of prior posting.]

The brides's father is actually Serbulo Lozano.

The bride and groom are also related: 3rd cousins (4th degree consanguinity). There should be a dispensation with the matrimonial investigation.

George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA

Comentario

I had brought up the fact that they are 3rd cousins in one of my earlier
posts. There's no need to search for the dispensation. I have found enough
records to show they are related through Manuel Lozano and María Agustina
de Aguallo

Armando

On Tue, Jan 10, 2012 at 11:48 PM, wrote:

> The groom's father is actually Serbulo Lozano.
>
> The bride and groom are also related: 3rd cousins (4th degree
> consanguinity). There should be a dispensation with the matrimonial
> investigation.
>
> George Fulton
> Pleasanton, CA

Comentario

Even having all the information I need, I would ALWAYS search for the dispensation. Sometimes they have some interesting and previously unknown piece of the puzzle ;)
Victoriano Navarro

Comentario

This would be the corrected transcription based on the input (with some corrections -mainly accents- according to modern Spanish):

En la Iglesia Parroquial de Nochistlan a trece de mayo de 1879 yo el Presbítero Don Rafael G. Portugal teniente de Cura con licencia parroquial casé y velé in fascie Ecletia a Felipe Armas, soltero de 21 años de edad, originario y vecino de la Jabonera, de esta feligresía, hijo legítimo de Antonio Armas finado y de Bernarda Juares que vive, con Leonarda Lozano, célibe, de 20 años de edad, originaria y vecina del mismo punto, hija legítima de Cérbulo Lozano y de Luisa Durán que viven. Dispensados por el Ilustrísimo Señor Arzobispo por impedimento de consanguinidad de cuarto grado igual como se ve en el decreto inserto al frente de esta partida, previos los consentimientos necesarios y las diligencias que prescribe el Santo Concilio de Trento, sus amonestaciones leídas inter Misamm solemnia en tres días festivos que lo fueron el 27 de abril, 4 y 11 de mayo

Comentario

Victoriano ... Thank you for this transcription; this is actually very helpful.

Abram ... This document is a challenge to read for a couple of reasons. (1) The image is blurred so enlarging the image is not too helpful, and (2) the handwriting is rather cramped, which makes is hard if you are not too familiar with the church language.

We all had a hard time at first with documetns from the later part of the 1800s; this is not untypical. What is really nice about them, and what makes Victoriano's transcription most helpful, is that the general format of both baptismal and amrriage documents changes very little. They are the same in all the essential points, evenin the 1600s. You will find that many of the older documents have less ornate handwriting, and are easier to read.

To analyze this document...
(1) The beginning is almost always the name of the church, town, and date
(2) The priest's name
(3) The term like case y vele (or sometimes case y no vele)
(4) The groom's name, state

Comentario

George,
Thanks for your comments! Indeed most of the records say pretty much the same, just changing names, dates and some details regarding that particular marriage.

Abram: "consanguinidad de cuarto grado igual" means that they share an ancestor (or a couple of them) 4 generations away form each one of them. So they share a gg-grandfather, or a gg-grandmother, or both. Maybe Armando can tell you who are these gg-grandparents and the line that connects them to the bride and groom.

Best regards,

Victoriano Navarro

Comentario

Estimados colegas y primos,

Desde un principio me interesó esta discusión sobre la familia Armas, pero ahora que analizo cuidadosamente el acta de Felipe Armas y Leonarda Lozano, puedo establecer que los dos están emparentados conmigo. Yo desciendo de Juan José de Armas y de Rosa María de Aguirre, tronco común de estos Armas aquí en discusión. También conecto con otras familias de Nochistlán, como los Durán, Armas, Aguirre, Yáñez, Juárez, Lozano, Sandoval, etc. contenidas en está genealogía.

Me puse a investigar un poco en FamilySearch y en mis archivos, y establecí que en realidad Felipe Armas y Leonarda Lozano estaban ligados por sangre, pero no por un parentesco de consanguinidad de cuarto grado igual, sino por dos. O sea que eran primos terceros por dos líneas, aunque en la investigación de la información matrimonial solo salió a luz un parentesco. Los troncos comunes de ellos eran: (1) Nicolás de Aguirre y Ma. Felipa Contreras [casados el 20 de mayo de 1744]; y (2) Joseph

Comentario

Yo ya había enviado un mensaje corrigiendo mi error de decir que Manuel
Lozano y María Agustina de Aguayo son el tronco común de Felipe Armas y
Leonarda Lozano. Tengo a Manuel Lozano y María Agustina de Aguayo como el
tronco común de Margarito Armas y Macedonia Jauregui Glz. A la vez tengo a
Nicolás de Aguirre y Felipa Contreras como otro tronco común de Felipe
Armas y Leonarda Lozano. Esto es lo que yo tengo después de haber revisado
las imágenes de los registros de matrimonio de las siguientes personas.

Tronco Nicolás de Aguirre and Felipa Contreras
María Rosa de Aguirre....1...Joaquín de Aguirre
Luciano de Armas..........2...María Remigia de Aguirre
Antonio de Armas..........3...Serbulo Lozano
Felipe Armas.................4...Leonarda Lozano

Tronco Manuel Lozano y María Agustina de Aguayo
Jose María Lozano...1...María Calista Lozano
Serbulo Lozano.......2...Jacinta Aguirre
Leonarda Lozano....3....Francisca Glz
Margarito Armas.....4....Macedonia Jauregui

Cuando di el tronco

Comentario

Acabo de encontrar otro

Tronco Joaquín de Aguirre y Lorenza Corona
María Remigia de Aguirre...1...Miguel de Aguirre
Serbulo Lozano.................2...Jacinta Aguirre
Leonarda Lozano...............3...Francisca Glz
Margarito Armas...............4...Macedonia Jauregui

Armando

Comentario

Hi Abram,

I think that:
TRONCO
Nicolás de Aguirre y Felipa Contreras
Rosa Ma. Aguirre........1.......Joaquín Aguirre
Luciano Armas...........2......Ma. Remigia Aguirre
Antonio Armas........3...........Cérbulo Lozano
Felipe Armas........4..........Leonarda Lozano

Means:
4 Groom: Felipe Armas
3 His father: Antonio Armas
2 His Grandfather: Luciano Armas
1 His G-grandmother: Rosa Ma. Aguirre
His GG-grandparents: Nicolás de Aguirre y Felipa Contreras

4 Bride: Leonarda Lozano
3 Her father: Cérbulo Lozano
2 Her grandmother: Ma. Remigia Aguirre
1 Her G-grandfather: Joaquín Aguirre
Her GG-grandparents: Nicolás de Aguirre y Felipa Contreras

Doing the same for the second chart should give you the other branch with Joseph María Pérez Sotelo y María García as gg-grandparents of bride and groom:
Joseph María Pérez Sotelo y María García
Ignacio Pérez........1........Ma. Deseana Pérez
Ma. Refugio Pérez.....2......Ma. Sebastiana Yáñez
Antonio Armas........3.........Ma. Luisa Durán
Felipe Armas

Comentario

Abram Flores
okay so it goes like this right felipe armas marries leonarda lozano antonio armas marrie ma. luisa duran ma. refugio perez married sebastiana yanez ignacio perez married ma. deseana perez joseph maria perez sotelo married maria garcia.and i still didnt get the first tronco

Comentario

Nope.
TRONCO
Joseph María Pérez Sotelo y María García = They married
Ignacio Pérez........1........Ma. Deseana Pérez = They are their children, so they are brother and sister.
Ma. Refugio Pérez......2......Ma. Sebastiana Yáñez = Both female, they are cousins and their granddaughters.
Antonio Armas........3.........Ma. Luisa Durán = They are second cousins and their great-grandchildren
Felipe Armas........4.........Leonarda Lozano = They are third cousins, their gg-grandchildren, and they married.

Victoriano Navarro

Comentario

Abram Flores
wait so who marry who and and whose the father and the mother of the children.im pretty sure i can figure all of this out my but i have been very busy with school homework and that is the reason why i ask so many questions.So thanks to every one who has helped so far

Comentario

Abram,

If you don't have genealogy software, you need to get it because that's the best method of placing every family member in their respective place, otherwise they are just names.

You can download free PAF software from the familysearch website. It will make a big difference in understanding who is married to whom and which generation each person belongs to.

Alicia,
San Jose, Ca

________________________________
From: "aflore2855@gmail.com"
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2012 6:50 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] (no subject)

Abram Flores
wait so who marry who and and whose the father and the mother of the children.im pretty sure i can figure all of this out my but i have been very busy with school homework and that is the reason why i ask so many questions.So thanks to every one who has helped so far

Comentario

PAF is really easy to use, and I recommend it.

You can also get a program to go with it called PAF Companion, that prints very nice reports and charts (including in color). You have to buy this one, but it is only about $10.00, and well worth the money. The reports it generates are best when you have Microsoft Word, but it works with other word processors as well.

Both of these have been around for a long time, but they both run on Windows Vista without any problems(I would expect they also are ok with Windows 7).

There is a very old Macintosh version, but it may not run on the current Mac operating system. By comparison with the Windows version, it is not very good.

There is other software, as well. Some not expensive (perhaps $40-50); others cost much more. For the price, PAF and PAF Companion are tough to beat!

George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA

Comentario

Abram------Be careful with Ancestry.com's system. Make your tree Private as soon as possible, otherwise their trolling robot software (Family Tree) will allow people to pull over information you have put in by putting it on their "shaking leaves". Those shaking leaves are supposed to only be "hints" that other peoples' ancestors might be related, but usually only the name is the same but the location and date are way off. Always check things out first with Family Search.

When you make your tree Private, people will be forced to contact you via the Ancestry system to discuss your information instead of just assuming you are related because of a common name.

I assume you signed up for a subscription to Ancestry.com? And then started a tree there that way?

I think it is better to have a genealogy program like PAF in your computer. They all work the way the Ancestry.com system works, but people can't take your information. Once you have developed a tree on the software in

Comentario

Abram,

You will find them once you use the procedures we have explained in
previous messages.

Armando

On Thu, Jan 12, 2012 at 9:36 AM, wrote:

> Abram Flores
> sorry to ask but can you please put them like in order like this
> individuals father is or this individuals husband or wife is name them.

Comentario

Hello Steven,
 
 First of all I would like to say that I do not speak Spanish, and my Spanish reading skills are very limited to say the least.
 
 By using Webster's 21st Century Spanish/English Dictionary and applying what I call "common sense," I tend to get the basic meaning of the postings written in Spanish.
 
 Steven,  your posting was a challenge for me and any corrections in my translation/understand of it will be greatly appreciate.
 
At first I didn't think this Armas/Lozano discussion applied to my husband (Tino's) ancestry, but as stated in my previous email I later found a common ancestry connection to various individuals being mentioned.
 
I believe your posting states you are a descendant/desciendo, of Juan Jose de Armas and of Rosa Maria de Aguirre, and that this "trunk," is common to the Armas in discussion.
 
My husband (Tino) also has a strong connection with ancestors/family from Nochislan, one being Rosa Maria de Aguirre, who is Tino's 3rd GreatGrand

Comentario

Hello Steven,
 
 First of all I would like to say that I do not speak Spanish, and my Spanish reading skills are very limited to say the least.
 
 By using Webster's 21st Century Spanish/English Dictionary and applying what I call "common sense," I tend to get the basic meaning of the postings written in Spanish.
 
 Steven,  your posting was a challenge for me and any corrections in my translation/understand of it will be greatly appreciate.
 
At first I didn't think this Armas/Lozano discussion applied to my husband (Tino's) ancestry, but as stated in my previous email I later found a common ancestry connection to various individuals being mentioned.
 
I believe your posting states you are a descendant/desciendo, of Juan Jose de Armas and of Rosa Maria de Aguirre, and that this "trunk," is common to the Armas in discussion.
 
My husband (Tino) also has a strong connection with ancestors/family from Nochislan, one being Rosa Maria de Aguirre, who is Tino's 3rd GreatGrand

Comentario

I just realized I gave you the wrong ones. The correct ones that are the
common ancestors of Felipe Armas and Leonarda Lozano are Nicolás de Aguirre
and Felipa Contreras. Manuel Lozano and Maria Agustina de Aguallo would
have caused a need for a dispensa in 4th degree of Margarito Armas Lozano
and Macedonia Jauregui Aguirre.

On Wed, Jan 11, 2012 at 9:11 PM, wrote:

> Abram Flores
> who is manuel lozano and maria agustina de aguallo?
>

Comentario

I must admit I got lost in following the exchange between  Abram Flores and Ranchos Members. 

 

It wasn't until  Armando's correction posting that I realized that Nicolas Yanes de Aguirre and Phelipa/Felipa Maria Gonzalez Contreras are my husband's (Florentino/Tino Corbera) 4th Great Grandparents. 

 

I have the following:

 

Nicolas and Phelipa parents of 7 children - (1) Juan Francisco Contreras Aguirre (2) Maria Josepha Gonzalez Aguirre (3) Rosa Maria Contreras Aguirre (4) Maria Gertrudis Contreras Aguirre (5) Maria Salome Contreras Aguirre  (6) Joseph Joaquin Aguirre and (7) Joseph Leonicio Contreras Aguirre.

 

Child # (6) Joseph Joaquin Aguirre and child # (7) Joseph Leonicio Contreras Aguirre are Tino's 3rd GGFathers.

 

Child # (6) descends to Tino's Maternal Great Grandmother Maria Aniseta Losano Aguirre and her second marriage to Jose Victoriano Rodriguez Perez, their son Jose Fernando Aguirre Perez is Tino's maternal Grandfather (Jose Fernando Aguirre Perez

Comentario

Isn't that amazing. Abram's persistence has caused two people in the group to look seriously at the genealogical information and now they've found a family connection..........I love it!!

Our ancestors speak to us in whatever form is necessary to get our attention.

Alicia,
San Jose, Ca

________________________________
From: Pat Corbera
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2012 11:56 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] The groom's father

I must admit I got lost in following the exchange between  Abram Flores and Ranchos Members. 

 

It wasn't until  Armando's correction posting that I realized that Nicolas Yanes de Aguirre and Phelipa/Felipa Maria Gonzalez Contreras are my husband's (Florentino/Tino Corbera) 4th Great Grandparents. 

 

I have the following:

 

Nicolas and Phelipa parents of 7 children - (1) Juan Francisco Contreras Aguirre (2) Maria Josepha Gonzalez Aguirre (3) Rosa Maria Contreras Aguirre (4) Maria Gertrudis Contreras

Comentario

I'd like to mention what actually drew me into taking the time to go back and read the postings with reference to Abram's questions was the patience shown in answering his questions by Rancho members.  It brought to mind, the only "dumb" question is the question not asked...

Yep! Tino's  Perez ancestors from Nochistlan have truly spoken today...
 
I keep praying that the Corbera "clan," hears and answers my prayers!
 
Pat Silva Corbera
Tracy CA

----- Original Message -----

From: "Alicia Carrillo"
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2012 12:51:26 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] The groom's father

Isn't that amazing. Abram's persistence has caused two people in the group to look seriously at the genealogical information and now they've found a family connection..........I love it!!

Our ancestors speak to us in whatever form is necessary to get our attention.

Alicia,
San Jose, Ca

________________________________
 From: Pat Corbera

Comentario

Victoriano, you have the wrong padrinos and testigos. The correct padrinos
and testigos are Labrado Durán y Decideria Yanes testigos Telésforo Durán y
Mauricio Lopes. The mother of Felipe has the surname Juarez in all other
records. The father of Leonarda is Serbulo. I had named all of them in my
earlier post.

Armando

On Tue, Jan 10, 2012 at 11:16 PM, wrote:

> En la Iglesia Parroquial de Nochistlan a trece de mayo de 1879 yo el
> Presbítero Don Rafael G Portugal teniente de Cura con licencia parroquial
> case y vele in fascie Ecletia a Felipe Armas, soltero de 21 años de edad,
> originario y vecino de la Jabonera, de esta feligresía, hijo legitimo de
> Antonio Armas finado y de Bernarda Suares que vive, con Leonarda Lozano,
> célibe, de 20 años de edad, originaria y vecina del mismo punto, hija
> legitima de ¿¿Pablo?? Lozano y de Luisa Duran que viven. Dispensados por el
> Ilustrísimo Señor Arzobispo por impedimento de consanguinidad de cuarto
> grado igual como se ve en el decreto

Comentario

Ooops! The record doesn't have a nice resolution, so I was going to the previous one (which also has a dispensation) which is more readable to figure out some of the words (like Ilmo. Señor Arzobispo). I guess in the back and forth I ended up transcribing the Padrinos and Testigos from the following record, My bad!
Victoriano Navarro

Comentario

The two names are Juarez (you can expect to find also spelled at Juares, and sometimes in very old records as Xuares), and Serbulo. I had not seen this other name before, so the combination of hard-to-read handwriting and an unusual name caused the confusion. In Victoriano's first transcription of the document, he was unsure of the name, which he noted with the question marks.

George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA

Dispensas matrimoniales Diocesis de Guadalajara: 1797 Film 168097 / OAH-2435

Hola! Envío revisión de las dispensas de archivo de Diocesis de Guadalajara: 1797 Film 168097 / OAH-2435. Espero mi querida Claudia Reynoso las incluya en su archivo que muy amablemente comparte.

Comentarios

Comentario

Wow, que bien! Gracias Veronica. Ya postea la version editada (en dos partes, por numeros de films) en guadalajaradispensas.com

Wow, that's great! Thanks Veronica. I've posted my edited version (in two parts per film #s) at guadalajaradipsensas.com

Saludos,
Claudia
www.guadalajaradispensas.com
www.sagradamitra.com

Manda's, after passing

Does anyone know what a manda is? I know its after they pass away but what exactly is it written up in the church for?? here is a link to my document for your viewing.

Comentarios

Comentario

Amalia,

A "manda," within the practices of catholics, is a promise made (or included in a will) to God, to the Virgin, or to a Saint, either because of devotion or to obtain a determinate Grace.

Efrain Conrique
San Diego, California

-----Original Message-----
>From: hernandezmol@msn.com
>Sent: Jan 12, 2012 4:02 PM
>To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
>Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Manda's, after passing
>
>Does anyone know what a manda is? I know its after they pass away but what exactly is it written up in the church for?? here is a link to my document for your viewing. It is the first record, Alonzo garcia hijo de Villalpando.
>
>http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c302/1traviesa/alonzovillal.jpg
>
>thank you
>
>Amalia Hernandez Arias

Comentario

According to the current edition of the Real Academia Dictionary, a manda is indeed a promise made to God, the Virgin or a saint, or a Last Will Testament.
A lot of people used to leave in their Will some money to pay for masses for the resting of their own soul and for masses for the resting of the souls in the Purgatory. The document you cite has a font very difficult to read but it seems to indicate that the mandas are somehow related souls (almas).
Currently a lot of living people still pay mandas for favors received (miracles), not with money but by visiting a shrine (sometimes walking with a big group of people for miles and miles) or by binging a gift and placing it next to some image. I've seen some statues of saints in Mexico City surrounded by printed theses brought by university graduates, statues of the Child Jesus surrounded by toys, statues of St. Charbel with colored ribbons in his open arms, in some churches they cover some walls with small paintings describing a

En respuesta a por victorianonavarro (no verificado)

Comentario

Ahhhh ok. I will have to take a look at that. The document is from the 1500's from Gomeznarro, Valladolid Spain. Most of it I can translate but I just never heard of its purpose.

Amalia Hernandez Arias

Comentario

It's a debt or a promise made to the church and to God.

________________________________
From: "hernandezmol@msn.com"
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2012 4:02 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Manda's, after passing

Does anyone know what a manda is? I know its after they pass away but what exactly is it written up in the church for?? here is a link to my document for your viewing.  It is the first record, Alonzo garcia hijo de Villalpando.

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c302/1traviesa/alonzovillal.jpg

thank you
Amalia Hernandez Arias

Lino

Could anyone please tell me whether Lino is a first name or a nickname?
I have an ancestor named Lino Monrreal early to mid 1800's in Aguascalientes.  I haven't found any reference to any other firs

Comentarios

Comentario

Alice:

Of course Lino is used also as a proper name. My sixth great grandfather was named José Lino de Agraz y Contreras.

Enrique

Comentario

Lino is Spanish for Linus. There is a St. Linus, Pope, with feast on September 23 (San Lino). I guess some people may also use it as nickname for Paulino, Marcelino, Catalino, etc.
Victoriano Navarro

En respuesta a por victorianonavarro (no verificado)

Comentario

Thank you, Victoriano.  Therefore, Lino is a proper first name, indeed!
I doubted that people would use nicknames on church documents, but on the other hand, it crosssed my mind that it could also be an abbreviation.  For the first time I've seen the following abbreviation for Maria--"Maa", in the same church book.   Thanks again,  Alice

--- On Fri, 1/13/12, mnavarrovillalobos@yahoo.com.mx wrote:

From: mnavarrovillalobos@yahoo.com.mx
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Linus
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Friday, January 13, 2012, 4:51 AM

Lino is Spanish for Linus. There is a St. Linus, Pope, with feast on September 23 (San Lino). I guess some people may also use it as nickname for Paulino, Marcelino, Catalino, etc. Victoriano Navarro

Tienda Genealogica en linea

Queridos amigos,

Al iniciar este año 2012 deseamos que se logren sus propositos y metas.

Comentarios

Comentario

Queridos amigos,

Al iniciar este año 2012 deseamos que se logren sus propositos y metas. Que las bendiciones de Dios esten siempre derramandose en Ustedes y sus seres queridos.

Estamos relanzando nuestros servicios de venta de material genealogico el cual estamos "subiendo" diariamente a http://www.Genealogia.org.mx/tienda

Ademas si deseas llamarnos GRATUITAMENTE desde CUALQUIER PARTE DEL MUNDO puedes hacerlo usando SKYPE que es un software gratuito y marcando a GENEALOGIA.ORG.MX (agregas el usuario y hasta podemos chatear usando webcam, si tu no tienes no importa TU PODRAS VERNOS)

(desde mi SmartPhone)
Benicio Samuel Sanchez
Genealogista e Historiador Familiar

Email: samuelsanchez@genealogia.org.mx
Website: http://www.Genealogia.org.mx
Skype: Genealogia.org.mx
FacebooK: www.Facebook.com/Genealogia.org.mx

Office (81) 8393 0011
Cel 81 1513 8354

Casillas de Los Altos de Jalisco

Saludos afectuosos a todos,

Quisiera preguntar a los miembros de NR si alguno de ustedes desciende de alguno de los siguientes matrimonios:

Comentarios

Comentario

Que tal Ricardo yo tengo en mi arbol genealogico a JUAN CASILLAS y MARIA VALDIVIA.
saludos ERNESTO DE LEON