I consider other spellings as alternate spellings rather than mis spelllings.
It might be offensive to some people to say their ancestors mis spelled their own names.
For example, it was actually correct to spell Felipe with a "Ph" rather than an "F," before around 1700. That's why the archipelago off the coast of Asia is called the Philippines, but the people are called Filipinos in Spanish and English (and Pilipino in Tagalog, the language of the islands which has no F or Ph sound).
In reality there were many ways of spellings names until the Spanish language was standardized with the change of dynasties in Madrid, from the Hapsburgs who died out, and the Bourbons, who initiated widespread changes throughout the empire.
It was the Bourbons who brought about the metric system by scientific research in what is now Ecuador.
Gradually the old measurements, and coins such as the ocho reales, and two bits, were replaced by decimal based denominations such as the centavo and peso.
Back at the ranch......that is when we were at the yahoo's Rancho group we had a long discussion on this. I would like to revive those messages here. Please view from the archive:
http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/archives/2003h2/msg00026.html
http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/archives/2003h2/msg00027.html
Hope this helps those people new to the group...
Good luck on your search.
Angie Godina
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One thing we also must remember is that our ancestors seldom even saw the records for births, marriages and deaths. They or someone with them gave the facts as they knew them to a someone at the church and I'm not sure that person is the same one who recorded the information. Babies were baptized without the mother in attendance so information about her family was many times incorrect. It was normal for the mother not to leave the home for 40 days.
As for my family, many of them could not read or write so correcting or changing information was not an alternative for them. Many times mothers died before the child married and the step-mother is the only one others knew about and that complicates things too. Many families moved to different states or cities and again, information was second hand or guessed at. As for early records giving the nationality of the child even that has to be considered as a guess based on the child or fathers skin color, Many records show different
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I am so eager and happy to learn about how our ancestors lived! All these
tidbits are so interesting plus it makes it easier to understand search
because I for one don't feel like I am fumbling in the dark.Most of this
information you are all sharing is 'new' to me!
Hope
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Great point Linda, This point can never be said enough. The stuff online
is just the beginning or starting point. Everything absolutely
everything needs to be seen with your own eyes. Then once you've seen it
you need to give the references where others can go to find the
information.
thanks Linda, please continue saying this as new people come on board. I
appreciate the help in reminding people of this crucial point.
joseph
Erlinda Castanon-Long wrote:
>One thing we also must remember is that our ancestors seldom even saw the records for births, marriages and deaths. They or someone with them gave the facts as they knew them to a someone at the church and I'm not sure that person is the same one who recorded the information. Babies were baptized without the mother in attendance so information about her family was many times incorrect. It was normal for the mother not to leave the home for 40 days.
>
> As for my family, many of them could not read or write so
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thanks for the information, i have been searching for someone who may know
something about the viramontes name. thanks jovana viramontes
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well the purpose of this group is to find common links and to help each
other in their research. At your first opportunty you need to go to your
closest Family History Center so you can order some of the films we've
been talking about.
do you know the specific Location in Zacatecas that your Viramontes come
from? If not how did you find out that they were from Zacatecas?
joseph
JvKomadi@aol.com wrote:
>thanks for the information, i have been searching for someone who may know
>something about the viramontes name. thanks jovana viramontes
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I was told that my grandfather was from jalpa. his parents were born there
also and remained there until their passing. my father doesn't seem to know
much about his own family, or that's what he has lead me to be live. I am still
trying to reach my aunt carmen, I was told by my fathers wife that she knows
a lot more about were we came from along with names etc.. I feel my father is
keeping some info from me, why ? I am not sure . but I am going to keep
asking until I find the info I need. thanks jovana
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Jovana,
While I have only reviewed one roll of film from Jalpa I found many many Viramontes in Jalpa. Once you order your first roll of film from the list I sent you yesterday you are on your way to discovering your family's history. Begin by ordering one roll of film from your local family history center for the year or years in which your grandparents were born and search every record on that roll.
When I began I did not know my father in-law's birth date, I just had an approximate year and I had his parents' names. I scrolled through my first couple of rolls entry by entry not really knowing what I was looking for. It was about 7 PM in the evening and I was about to leave Salt Lake City after researching for 3 days without anything substantial on my husband's side of the family when I found a birth record for my father-in-law's brother, born in 1904. How did I know this, because I had his parents names and the approximate date of birth. The birth record said.....En la ciudad de
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Alicia, You are just one wonderful person. Don't be surprised if I make
you director of New Membership. You have a great way of explaining and
helping the new ones. I want to thank you for taking the time to share
your knowledge in helping those that need some guidance get started on
their search. One day many will be very thankful to you for getting
their start.
muchisimas,
joseph
Alicia Carrillo wrote:
>Jovana,
>
>While I have only reviewed one roll of film from Jalpa I found many many Viramontes in Jalpa. Once you order your first roll of film from the list I sent you yesterday you are on your way to discovering your family's history. Begin by ordering one roll of film from your local family history center for the year or years in which your grandparents were born and search every record on that roll.
>
>When I began I did not know my father in-law's birth date, I just had an approximate year and I had his parents' names. I scrolled through my first couple of rolls
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This group is made up of many wonderful, helpful and caring individuals. I thank the Good Lord plus my heavenly ancestors for guiding me to NuestrosRanchos.
Thank You all!
Pat
Joseph Puentes wrote:
Alicia, You are just one wonderful person. Don't be surprised if I make
you director of New Membership. You have a great way of explaining and
helping the new ones. I want to thank you for taking the time to share
your knowledge in helping those that need some guidance get started on
their search. One day many will be very thankful to you for getting
their start.
muchisimas,
joseph
Alicia Carrillo wrote:
>Jovana,
>
>While I have only reviewed one roll of film from Jalpa I found many many Viramontes in Jalpa. Once you order your first roll of film from the list I sent you yesterday you are on your way to discovering your family's history. Begin by ordering one roll of film from your local family history center for the year or years in which your grandparents were born
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I second that Pat. I just joined night before last and
it has been wonderful.
Yolanda
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Joseph, I second the motion in all you wrote about Alicia.
I bet she will also make a good tour guide to Zacatecas.
Your long lost Prima....Helyn
Joseph Puentes wrote:
Alicia, You are just one wonderful person. Don't be surprised if I make
you director of New Membership. You have a great way of explaining and
helping the new ones. I want to thank you for taking the time to share
your knowledge in helping those that need some guidance get started on
their search. One day many will be very thankful to you for getting
their start.
muchisimas,
joseph
Alicia Carrillo wrote:
>Jovana,
>
>While I have only reviewed one roll of film from Jalpa I found many many Viramontes in Jalpa. Once you order your first roll of film from the list I sent you yesterday you are on your way to discovering your family's history. Begin by ordering one roll of film from your local family history center for the year or years in which your grandparents were born and search every record on that
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That goes for me too! Alecia is wonderful and so giving of her time and
knowledge.
I also one day hope to go to Zacatecas with some of the group. Even though
my Spanish would probably embarrass everyone.;-) I still have that inner
hunger to walk where my ancestors walked!
Hope
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I'm still thinking I'd like to go too, but would I handicap anyone by not speaking Spanish? I think I'd probably be asking and asking, "what did he say?"....and taking away from the trip. However, I've always wanted to go to Zacatecas to see where my family came from....I just didn't think it would happen. Keep us informed with the details!
Peggy Delgado
beelieve wrote:
That goes for me too! Alecia is wonderful and so giving of her time and
knowledge.
I also one day hope to go to Zacatecas with some of the group. Even though
my Spanish would probably embarrass everyone.;-) I still have that inner
hunger to walk where my ancestors walked!
Hope
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You can sit/stand/and ask questions with me, I don't speak, write or understand Spanish, but that's not going to stop me from going. ;-)) . Pat
Peggy Delgado wrote: I'm still thinking I'd like to go too, but would I handicap anyone by not speaking Spanish? I think I'd probably be asking and asking, "what did he say?"....and taking away from the trip. However, I've always wanted to go to Zacatecas to see where my family came from....I just didn't think it would happen. Keep us informed with the details!
Peggy Delgado
beelieve wrote:
That goes for me too! Alecia is wonderful and so giving of her time and
knowledge.
I also one day hope to go to Zacatecas with some of the group. Even though
my Spanish would probably embarrass everyone.;-) I still have that inner
hunger to walk where my ancestors walked!
Hope
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Pat, Peggy and anyone else that is even remotely considering the trip, listen up. The purpose of this trip is so that those people who would not otherwise visit their ancestral towns will have an opportunity to do so.
It is not required that you speak the spanish language, it is a requirement that you pay for your trip, lodging, meals and expenses and contribute towards the bus or tour transportation including tips and a tour guide if necessary. We are very early into the planning process and if you indeed are interested as the time draws near we will see how many people are still serious about the trip. At the time it is decided who is going we will ask for some input as to the specific towns we may all want to visit that are within our research areas and we might even consider some special area of interest even if it is not for research but for play and relaxation.
Hope this helps,
Alicia
You can sit/stand/and ask questions with me, I don't speak, write or understand
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Hi Alicia!
Yes, that helps, thanks!
Alicia Carrillo wrote:
Pat, Peggy and anyone else that is even remotely considering the trip, listen up. The purpose of this trip is so that those people who would not otherwise visit their ancestral towns will have an opportunity to do so.
It is not required that you speak the spanish language, it is a requirement that you pay for your trip, lodging, meals and expenses and contribute towards the bus or tour transportation including tips and a tour guide if necessary. We are very early into the planning process and if you indeed are interested as the time draws near we will see how many people are still serious about the trip. At the time it is decided who is going we will ask for some input as to the specific towns we may all want to visit that are within our research areas and we might even consider some special area of interest even if it is not for research but for play and relaxation.
Hope this helps,
Alicia
You can sit/stand/and
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I wouls REALLY like to go.................... what time frame are we
thinking about for this trip?
Just maybe.........................!!!??
Hope
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Hope,
We don't know yet when in 2007 we will be going. I have had input from a few people as to when they can go and you can do the same. The best times in my opinion as well as Arturo's is that the spring, March/April and September/October are best. I personally prefer the fall, the rains have just finished and it is a sight to behold, wildflowers as far as the eye can see in the countryside but some people can only go during the summer months.
After our Northern California meeting on July 29th we will have a better idea on the time frame and logistics.
I look forward to meeting my Ranchos family.
Alicia Carrillo
San Jose, Ca
I wouls REALLY like to go.................... what time frame are we
thinking about for this trip?
Just maybe.........................!!!??
Hope
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Peggy, You would certainly NOT be a handicap. I for one, would be happy to translate for you. I can translate simultaneously from Spanish to English, but not proficient the other way around.
One of the ladies in the group, who is considering the journey to Zacatecas, does not speak Spanish...so, there is always room for one more. Bet you will return with a new vocabulary.
Saludos, Helyn
Peggy Delgado wrote:
I'm still thinking I'd like to go too, but would I handicap anyone by not speaking Spanish? I think I'd probably be asking and asking, "what did he say?"....and taking away from the trip. However, I've always wanted to go to Zacatecas to see where my family came from....I just didn't think it would happen. Keep us informed with the details!
Peggy Delgado
beelieve wrote:
That goes for me too! Alecia is wonderful and so giving of her time and
knowledge.
I also one day hope to go to Zacatecas with some of the group. Even though
my Spanish would probably embarrass
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Helyn! Yes, I hope to pick up some of the language myself. I had high school Spanish and understand a little from my first husband and his family, but other than that, I will need help.
Thanks for the offer....hopefully as the trip draws near, I'll be able to go, depending on when it is....
Peggy
Santos Luna wrote:
Peggy, You would certainly NOT be a handicap. I for one, would be happy to translate for you. I can translate simultaneously from Spanish to English, but not proficient the other way around.
One of the ladies in the group, who is considering the journey to Zacatecas, does not speak Spanish...so, there is always room for one more. Bet you will return with a new vocabulary.
Saludos, Helyn
Peggy Delgado wrote:
I'm still thinking I'd like to go too, but would I handicap anyone by not speaking Spanish? I think I'd probably be asking and asking, "what did he say?"....and taking away from the trip. However, I've always wanted to go to Zacatecas to see where my
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Helyn, Joseph and everyone,
I feel that most everyone in this group has been very giving of their time, talent and knowledge. It is because of the many that I have received much from this group. I could go on and on about the virtues of each person. Isn't that why we belong to this cyber group of family research? To learn and also to share what we learn, to share our techniques and strategies, especially with those who are new to genealogy.
Some people share their technical know-how which I benefit from, some share their PAF expertise of which I have also been the recipient, historical research strategies in Salt Lake and at local family history centers. Their command of the spanish language, maps, etc etc.
Joseph and Arturo, our thanks to you for making this group what it is today.
Alicia Avelar Olmos de Carrillo
San Jose, Ca
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Alicia and fellow Ranchos,
What I'm finding to be very difficult for me, is that even though reference is being made to Momax (as an example) as being the ancestral "area." Vital records for that area may be located in at least three different parishes, if not more. Reference to Ranchos de Los Pintos, hasn't help to establish what films should be ordered.
I did locate FHC listing for Guadalupe, Zacatecas, so I'll check out some of those films to see if Guadalupe de Juanacatis is located there.
Pat
Alicia Carrillo wrote:
Helyn, Joseph and everyone,
I feel that most everyone in this group has been very giving of their time, talent and knowledge. It is because of the many that I have received much from this group. I could go on and on about the virtues of each person. Isn't that why we belong to this cyber group of family research? To learn and also to share what we learn, to share our techniques and strategies, especially with those who are new to genealogy.
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Alicia and fellow Ranchos,
What I'm finding to be very difficult for me, is that even though reference is being made to Momax (as an example) as being the ancestral "area." Vital records for that area may be located in at least three different parishes, if not more. Reference to Ranchos de Los Pintos, hasn't help to establish what films should be ordered.
Patricia, in that link that Arturo sent out today for diccionario biografico click on it and go to the letter J. You will find Juanacatic, del partido de Villanueva Zacatecas. It also references rancho de Guadalupe and partido de Tlaltenango de Sanchez Roman. This in all likelihood is what you are searching for as it is closer to Momax.
This Guadalupe Zacatecas is very close to Zacatecas, Zacatecas and is probably not the one your are searching for. It is quite a distance from Momax
I did locate FHC listing for Guadalupe, Zacatecas, so I'll check out some of those films to see if Guadalupe de Juanacatis is located there
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Due to short term memory loss, I can not recall the name of the file/link that was posted with the names/locations of the various ranchos/pueblos. Do believe this may be a good resource for Pat in finding some of the locations in her area of research.
Thanks, Helyn
Patricia Corbera wrote:
Alicia and fellow Ranchos,
What I'm finding to be very difficult for me, is that even though reference is being made to Momax (as an example) as being the ancestral "area." Vital records for that area may be located in at least three different parishes, if not more. Reference to Ranchos de Los Pintos, hasn't help to establish what films should be ordered.
I did locate FHC listing for Guadalupe, Zacatecas, so I'll check out some of those films to see if Guadalupe de Juanacatis is located there.
Pat
Alicia Carrillo wrote:
Helyn, Joseph and everyone,
I feel that most everyone in this group has been very giving of their time, talent and knowledge. It is because of the many that I have
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Dear Helyn, Alicia, Maria, Linda and all Ranchos,
Once again, my sincere appreciation for your kindness and helpfulness. I tried to access the Diccionario Geográfico, Histórico y Biográfico de los Estados Unidos Mexicanos website, but only saw the letter A. I think the index/indice is not appearing because I don't have Java-Script software installed on my computer. I was able to figure out the website address to get to the letter J, but it wouldn't let me access any of the listings. I'll search the Internet for a Java download.
Thank you,
Pat.
Santos Luna wrote:
Due to short term memory loss, I can not recall the name of the file/link that was posted with the names/locations of the various ranchos/pueblos. Do believe this may be a good resource for Pat in finding some of the locations in her area of research.
Thanks, Helyn
Patricia Corbera
wrote:
Alicia and fellow Ranchos,
What I'm finding to be very difficult for me, is that even though reference is being made
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