I think it should be stricter.  The intent of this board is clear.  
It is meant for serious genealogists who are actively doing their 
own research. The messages are open to the public so that those who 
want to wait until they are ready to join can still read the 
messages posted without feeling pressured to become members. 

Maria Cortez

>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: ranchos@yahoogroups.com 
>   To: ranchos@yahoogroups.com 
>   Sent: Friday, November 26, 2004 12:05 PM
>   Subject: [ranchos] New poll for ranchos
> 
> 
> 
> 
>   Enter your vote today!  A new poll has been created for the 
>   ranchos group:
> 
>   You can only vote if you have already
>   submitted your genealogy, but even if
>   you haven't you can still influence by
>   giving your opinion via an email to the
>   group (freedom of speech).
> 
>   Question: Should the requirements for
>   being a member of Ranchos be More Strict
>   (have your genealogy in hand to submit
>   before being accepted into the group);
>   the same as now; or less Strict?
> 
>   I will not change anything unless 75% of
>   the permanent members vote and if I get
>   60% of those voting to vote for one of
>   the choices.  
> 
>     o More Strict 
>     o The Same 
>     o Less Strict 
>     o Other 
> 
> 
>   To vote, please visit the following web page:
>   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ranchos/surveys?id=1585766 
> 
>   Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are 
>   not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! 
Groups 
>   web site listed above.
> 
>   Thanks!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>         Yahoo! Groups Sponsor 
>          
>         Get unlimited calls to
> 
>         U.S./Canada
>        
>        
> 
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------
>   Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
>     a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
>     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ranchos/
>       
>     b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>     ranchos-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>       
>     c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms 
of Service.

And speaking of Michoacán....  If we were to speak about the old
territories of "Nueva Galicia", then we'd have to include Michoacán
all the way to Sonora (and maybe further north), including Jalisco,
Zacatecas, Aguascalientes, Nayarit, Colima and Sinaloa.

http://www.historylink.org/essays/output.cfm?file_id=5682


--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "Erlinda Castanon-Long"
<longsjourney@y...> wrote:
>
> Genealogy is hard work and I can't imagine a serious researcher 
> wanting to join this group without being willing to share what their 
> research has shown in the migration of families in Mexico. Joseph 
> has made it a rule for joining this group, the willingness to share 
> research.
> 
> I'm truly learning as I go in the genealogy but have learned that 
> our lines did not originally come from Jalisco, Zacatecas or 
> Guanajuato, they had to come from someplace else before that since 
> they followed established roads for migration after the soldiers 
> made them safe to establish new pueblos, towns and states. Or some 
> of us had ancestors who were soldiers and they were moved from place 
> to place.  I always said my Gutierrez and Mendez families was from 
> Jalisco but I've discovered they arrived in Jalisco about 1775 from 
> Michoacan and were only in Michoacan for about 50 years so they had 
> to come from someplace else before that! Even though my focus is 
> still in the states we are grouped together researching the idea of 
> someone else who's found ancestors from the late 1500's and 1600's 
> who've migrated to our area of research opens doors for me and 
> you... just my two cents worth.
> Linda in Everett
> 
> 
> --- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "Irma GomezLucero" 
> <igomezlucero@c...> wrote:
> 
> > Joseph,
> >     I know that I'm biased, but I'd like to keep it to the states:
> > Jalisco, Aguascalientes & Zacatecas (Nueva Galicia), but I can 
> also just
> > delete the info from the states I'm not interested in.  My 
> ancestors
> > seem to stay in the same place...
> > Irma
> > 
> > ________________________________
> > 
> > From: ranchos@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ranchos@yahoogroups.com] On 
> Behalf
> > Of Emilie Garcia
> > Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 6:57 AM
> > To: ranchos@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: Re: [ranchos] New poll for ranchos
> > 
> > 
> > Joseph,
> >  
> > I voted to restrict membership to those researching the three 
> states,
> > simply because the farther out from Jerez-Tepetongo, Zacatecas 
> (and a
> > little from Jalisco and Zacatecas) the group's ancestors are to be
> > found, the less familiar names I find in the files.
> >  
> > I was wondering if you asked those people that inquired about 
> joining
> > this group that have ancestors in other areas why they wanted to 
> join
> > our group.  Is it the name "ranchos" that is misleading?  Is it 
> because
> > they can't find a group that pertains to their areas of interest 
> and
> > just like what they see (files, discussions, resources, podcasts, 
> etc.)
> > on "ranchos"?  I myself was thrilled that Arturo posted that file 
> on
> > Tlaltenango even though it is not a town where my current research 
> has
> > led me.  However, after printing out the file and reading it 
> carefully,
> > I found my husband's ancestors, the Cervantes and Garcias listed. 
> (Now
> > how to bridge the gap from those folks to the ones I have found in 
> the
> > late 1700s in Jalisco in Encarnacion de Diaz, Real de Asientos, 
> Lagos de
> > Moreno, Teocaltiche, Rincon de Romos, Jolostotitlan---some of 
> these are
> > in Aguascalientes). I also got a glimpse of life, government, and 
> social
> > structure in the area in the early 1600's.  I sure wish the map 
> attached
> > to that report in the file had survived these 400 years.
> >  
> > In that file about Tlaltenango I see mention of Nueva Galicia.  
> What
> > current states or parts thereof comprised Nueva Galicia?  Would a 
> group
> > for descendants of Nueva Galicia encompass too many current 
> states?  I
> > think there was a Nueva Leon, Nueva Espana, Nueva Mexico.  Where 
> was
> > Durango?  You already are running two groups, and I think I would 
> like
> > to see a third group that follows the migration from our areas 
> through
> > San Luis Potosi to southern Chihuahua State before they went up to
> > Juarez, El Paso and New Mexico and Arizona and California, since I 
> know
> > that some of our group had ancestors that took that route. Then I 
> am
> > aware that several in the group were born in or had more recent
> > ancestors such as parents/grandparents that came directly from our 
> area
> > in Mexico to California.  
> >  
> > The reason I mention San Luis Potosi, Durango and southern 
> Chihuahua
> > (Hidalgo del Parral, Ciudad Chihuahua, Delicias, General de Trias, 
> Santa
> > Ysabel, etc) is that my husband's family seemed to have made stops 
> there
> > before continuing on to Juarez and El Paso then to California.
> >  
> > Well, Joseph, you have made this group so attractive that people 
> seem to
> > want to join just to access all the neat things you have put up 
> for the
> > group.  It wants to grow like Topsy!
> >  
> > Emilie Garcia
> > Port Orchard, WA  ---
> >  
> > ---- Original Message ----- 
> > 
> > 	From: ranchos@yahoogroups.com 
> > 	To: ranchos@yahoogroups.com 
> > 	Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 1:15 AM
> > 	Subject: [ranchos] New poll for ranchos
> > 
> > 	
> > 	Enter your vote today!  A new poll has been created for the 
> > 	ranchos group:
> > 	
> > 	From time to time people not from our geographical area 
> express
> > intereste in Ranchos. Here is my answer:
> > 	
> > 	maybe there is a misunderstanding. we are focused on the 
> states
> > of Jalisco, Zacatecas, and Aguascalientes. I don't understand why 
> you
> > would be interested in this group? Now if you "THINK" that you 
> might
> > have ties to this area then I'll subscribe you for a 1 year 
> temporary
> > membership that we'll reconsider renewing next year depending on 
> how
> > much you've discovered about your Jalisco, Zacatecas and/or
> > Aguascalientes roots or should I say tried to discover.
> > 	
> > 	is this what you'd like to do?
> > 	
> > 	Do you agree with this? Or should I make special exceptions 
> for
> > those "high quality" researchers that express interest in the 
> group?
> > 	
> > 	I'm torn between being "fair" to all and the possible 
> benefit to
> > "all" from letting a top researcher into the group.
> > 	
> > 	what do you all think?
> > 	
> > 	So far all of our polls have been invalid for lack of
> > participation. IF this one is to be valid I'll need 50% of you to 
> weigh
> > in so I can tip the balance. It'd be best if 52% of you weighed in 
> on
> > one side so my vote wouldn't be the deciding factor.
> > 	
> > 	joseph 
> > 	
> > 	  o Be Fair to all and restrict membership 
> > 	  o Don't restrict we can learn a lot from others 
> > 	  o Do like you're doing 
> > 	  o hijola, good question holmes! 
> > 	
> > 	
> > 	To vote, please visit the following web page:
> > 	http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ranchos/surveys?id=1823343 
> > 	
> > 	Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are 
> > 	not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo!
> > Groups 
> > 	web site listed above.
> > 	
> > 	Thanks!
> > 	
> > 	
> > 	
> > 	
> > 	
> > 	
> > 	
> > 	
> > 	
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > SPONSORED LINKS 
> > Aguascalientes
> > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
> t=ms&k=Aguascalientes&w1=Aguascalientes&w2
> > 
> =Criminal+offenses&w3=Zacatecas&w4=Zacatecas+mexico&w5=Zacatecas+hote
> l&w
> > 
> 6=Fiesta+americana+aguascalientes&c=6&s=138&.sig=3dGDyzZK1JYlft_kl5Y0
> RA>
> > Criminal offenses
> > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
> t=ms&k=Criminal+offenses&w1=Aguascalientes
> > 
> &w2=Criminal+offenses&w3=Zacatecas&w4=Zacatecas+mexico&w5=Zacatecas+h
> ote
> > 
> l&w6=Fiesta+americana+aguascalientes&c=6&s=138&.sig=rIqx_vlal4c5USviD
> DmP
> > CQ>  	Zacatecas
> > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
> t=ms&k=Zacatecas&w1=Aguascalientes&w2=Crim
> > 
> inal+offenses&w3=Zacatecas&w4=Zacatecas+mexico&w5=Zacatecas+hotel&w6=
> Fie
> > 
> sta+americana+aguascalientes&c=6&s=138&.sig=0I9QabaLqZysHNkjQQ8kLA>  
> 	
> > Zacatecas mexico
> > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
> t=ms&k=Zacatecas+mexico&w1=Aguascalientes&
> > 
> w2=Criminal+offenses&w3=Zacatecas&w4=Zacatecas+mexico&w5=Zacatecas+ho
> tel
> > 
> &w6=Fiesta+americana+aguascalientes&c=6&s=138&.sig=cOINbNYO1WJJy2BT4t
> gmB
> > A>  	Zacatecas hotel
> > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
> t=ms&k=Zacatecas+hotel&w1=Aguascalientes&w
> > 
> 2=Criminal+offenses&w3=Zacatecas&w4=Zacatecas+mexico&w5=Zacatecas+hot
> el&
> > 
> w6=Fiesta+americana+aguascalientes&c=6&s=138&.sig=IlWErASU8JXH8YNhGBk
> 9hQ
> > >  	Fiesta americana aguascalientes
> > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
> t=ms&k=Fiesta+americana+aguascalientes&w1=
> > 
> Aguascalientes&w2=Criminal+offenses&w3=Zacatecas&w4=Zacatecas+mexico&
> w5=
> > 
> Zacatecas+hotel&w6=Fiesta+americana+aguascalientes&c=6&s=138&.sig=Vhh
> nwM
> > FlUbMHR432RtNUkw>  	
> > 
> > ________________________________
> > 
> > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS 
> > 
> > 
> > 	
> > *	 Visit your group "ranchos
> > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ranchos> " on the web.
> > 	  
> > *	 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > 	 ranchos-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > <mailto:ranchos-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe> 
> > 	  
> > *	 Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> > Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> . 
> > 
> > 
> > ________________________________
> >
>

Genealogy is hard work and I can't imagine a serious researcher 
wanting to join this group without being willing to share what their 
research has shown in the migration of families in Mexico. Joseph 
has made it a rule for joining this group, the willingness to share 
research.

I'm truly learning as I go in the genealogy but have learned that 
our lines did not originally come from Jalisco, Zacatecas or 
Guanajuato, they had to come from someplace else before that since 
they followed established roads for migration after the soldiers 
made them safe to establish new pueblos, towns and states. Or some 
of us had ancestors who were soldiers and they were moved from place 
to place.  I always said my Gutierrez and Mendez families was from 
Jalisco but I've discovered they arrived in Jalisco about 1775 from 
Michoacan and were only in Michoacan for about 50 years so they had 
to come from someplace else before that! Even though my focus is 
still in the states we are grouped together researching the idea of 
someone else who's found ancestors from the late 1500's and 1600's 
who've migrated to our area of research opens doors for me and 
you... just my two cents worth.
Linda in Everett


--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "Irma GomezLucero" 
<igomezlucero@c...> wrote:

> Joseph,
>     I know that I'm biased, but I'd like to keep it to the states:
> Jalisco, Aguascalientes & Zacatecas (Nueva Galicia), but I can 
also just
> delete the info from the states I'm not interested in.  My 
ancestors
> seem to stay in the same place...
> Irma
> 
> ________________________________
> 
> From: ranchos@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ranchos@yahoogroups.com] On 
Behalf
> Of Emilie Garcia
> Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 6:57 AM
> To: ranchos@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [ranchos] New poll for ranchos
> 
> 
> Joseph,
>  
> I voted to restrict membership to those researching the three 
states,
> simply because the farther out from Jerez-Tepetongo, Zacatecas 
(and a
> little from Jalisco and Zacatecas) the group's ancestors are to be
> found, the less familiar names I find in the files.
>  
> I was wondering if you asked those people that inquired about 
joining
> this group that have ancestors in other areas why they wanted to 
join
> our group.  Is it the name "ranchos" that is misleading?  Is it 
because
> they can't find a group that pertains to their areas of interest 
and
> just like what they see (files, discussions, resources, podcasts, 
etc.)
> on "ranchos"?  I myself was thrilled that Arturo posted that file 
on
> Tlaltenango even though it is not a town where my current research 
has
> led me.  However, after printing out the file and reading it 
carefully,
> I found my husband's ancestors, the Cervantes and Garcias listed. 
(Now
> how to bridge the gap from those folks to the ones I have found in 
the
> late 1700s in Jalisco in Encarnacion de Diaz, Real de Asientos, 
Lagos de
> Moreno, Teocaltiche, Rincon de Romos, Jolostotitlan---some of 
these are
> in Aguascalientes). I also got a glimpse of life, government, and 
social
> structure in the area in the early 1600's.  I sure wish the map 
attached
> to that report in the file had survived these 400 years.
>  
> In that file about Tlaltenango I see mention of Nueva Galicia.  
What
> current states or parts thereof comprised Nueva Galicia?  Would a 
group
> for descendants of Nueva Galicia encompass too many current 
states?  I
> think there was a Nueva Leon, Nueva Espana, Nueva Mexico.  Where 
was
> Durango?  You already are running two groups, and I think I would 
like
> to see a third group that follows the migration from our areas 
through
> San Luis Potosi to southern Chihuahua State before they went up to
> Juarez, El Paso and New Mexico and Arizona and California, since I 
know
> that some of our group had ancestors that took that route. Then I 
am
> aware that several in the group were born in or had more recent
> ancestors such as parents/grandparents that came directly from our 
area
> in Mexico to California.  
>  
> The reason I mention San Luis Potosi, Durango and southern 
Chihuahua
> (Hidalgo del Parral, Ciudad Chihuahua, Delicias, General de Trias, 
Santa
> Ysabel, etc) is that my husband's family seemed to have made stops 
there
> before continuing on to Juarez and El Paso then to California.
>  
> Well, Joseph, you have made this group so attractive that people 
seem to
> want to join just to access all the neat things you have put up 
for the
> group.  It wants to grow like Topsy!
>  
> Emilie Garcia
> Port Orchard, WA  ---
>  
> ---- Original Message ----- 
> 
> 	From: ranchos@yahoogroups.com 
> 	To: ranchos@yahoogroups.com 
> 	Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 1:15 AM
> 	Subject: [ranchos] New poll for ranchos
> 
> 	
> 	Enter your vote today!  A new poll has been created for the 
> 	ranchos group:
> 	
> 	From time to time people not from our geographical area 
express
> intereste in Ranchos. Here is my answer:
> 	
> 	maybe there is a misunderstanding. we are focused on the 
states
> of Jalisco, Zacatecas, and Aguascalientes. I don't understand why 
you
> would be interested in this group? Now if you "THINK" that you 
might
> have ties to this area then I'll subscribe you for a 1 year 
temporary
> membership that we'll reconsider renewing next year depending on 
how
> much you've discovered about your Jalisco, Zacatecas and/or
> Aguascalientes roots or should I say tried to discover.
> 	
> 	is this what you'd like to do?
> 	
> 	Do you agree with this? Or should I make special exceptions 
for
> those "high quality" researchers that express interest in the 
group?
> 	
> 	I'm torn between being "fair" to all and the possible 
benefit to
> "all" from letting a top researcher into the group.
> 	
> 	what do you all think?
> 	
> 	So far all of our polls have been invalid for lack of
> participation. IF this one is to be valid I'll need 50% of you to 
weigh
> in so I can tip the balance. It'd be best if 52% of you weighed in 
on
> one side so my vote wouldn't be the deciding factor.
> 	
> 	joseph 
> 	
> 	  o Be Fair to all and restrict membership 
> 	  o Don't restrict we can learn a lot from others 
> 	  o Do like you're doing 
> 	  o hijola, good question holmes! 
> 	
> 	
> 	To vote, please visit the following web page:
> 	http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ranchos/surveys?id=1823343 
> 	
> 	Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are 
> 	not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo!
> Groups 
> 	web site listed above.
> 	
> 	Thanks!
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 
> 
> 
> SPONSORED LINKS 
> Aguascalientes
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
t=ms&k=Aguascalientes&w1=Aguascalientes&w2
> 
=Criminal+offenses&w3=Zacatecas&w4=Zacatecas+mexico&w5=Zacatecas+hote
l&w
> 
6=Fiesta+americana+aguascalientes&c=6&s=138&.sig=3dGDyzZK1JYlft_kl5Y0
RA>
> Criminal offenses
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
t=ms&k=Criminal+offenses&w1=Aguascalientes
> 
&w2=Criminal+offenses&w3=Zacatecas&w4=Zacatecas+mexico&w5=Zacatecas+h
ote
> 
l&w6=Fiesta+americana+aguascalientes&c=6&s=138&.sig=rIqx_vlal4c5USviD
DmP
> CQ>  	Zacatecas
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
t=ms&k=Zacatecas&w1=Aguascalientes&w2=Crim
> 
inal+offenses&w3=Zacatecas&w4=Zacatecas+mexico&w5=Zacatecas+hotel&w6=
Fie
> 
sta+americana+aguascalientes&c=6&s=138&.sig=0I9QabaLqZysHNkjQQ8kLA>  
	
> Zacatecas mexico
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
t=ms&k=Zacatecas+mexico&w1=Aguascalientes&
> 
w2=Criminal+offenses&w3=Zacatecas&w4=Zacatecas+mexico&w5=Zacatecas+ho
tel
> 
&w6=Fiesta+americana+aguascalientes&c=6&s=138&.sig=cOINbNYO1WJJy2BT4t
gmB
> A>  	Zacatecas hotel
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
t=ms&k=Zacatecas+hotel&w1=Aguascalientes&w
> 
2=Criminal+offenses&w3=Zacatecas&w4=Zacatecas+mexico&w5=Zacatecas+hot
el&
> 
w6=Fiesta+americana+aguascalientes&c=6&s=138&.sig=IlWErASU8JXH8YNhGBk
9hQ
> >  	Fiesta americana aguascalientes
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
t=ms&k=Fiesta+americana+aguascalientes&w1=
> 
Aguascalientes&w2=Criminal+offenses&w3=Zacatecas&w4=Zacatecas+mexico&
w5=
> 
Zacatecas+hotel&w6=Fiesta+americana+aguascalientes&c=6&s=138&.sig=Vhh
nwM
> FlUbMHR432RtNUkw>  	
> 
> ________________________________
> 
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS 
> 
> 
> 	
> *	 Visit your group "ranchos
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ranchos> " on the web.
> 	  
> *	 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> 	 ranchos-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:ranchos-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe> 
> 	  
> *	 Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> . 
> 
> 
> ________________________________
>

Joseph,

This is a though one.  I'm not deciding yet how to vote but I just
want to add a comment.

I understand how certain people might want to join the group just to
see what they can get out from it without making any contribution in
return, or extract information for non-genealogical purposes.  This is
not acceptable.

However, I'm sure there must be at least a few good researchers and
genealogist who, although not directly rooted in the Ranchos
geographical area, can act as bridges to other genealogical groups in
Mexico, US, Iberia, the Caribean, etc.  I for one have membership and
visit several groups  even in places where I still haven't found any
ancestors.  I have directed to this group a few persons who I knew
were interested in the Rancho's region but were unaware of this
group's existence.

Maybe the solution isnt'a yes-no, let-them-all-in / keep-them-all-out
situation.  How about adding another level or layer of protection to
the files or information that we want to protect, like moving our
personal files to a different location and still allowing other people
to join the fellowship and ongoing conversations? Are we sure there
isn't any chance of getting a worthwhile contribution from outside of
current members?

How about requiring a couple of recommendations from current members
to allow someone to join? Or how about considering a person's
accomplishments in the field of genealogy?  How about having some kind
of honorary membership for exceptional individuals?

These are just some quick thoughts.  I might add some more later.

Saludos Cordiales,
Victor Villarreal

 

--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, ranchos@yahoogroups.com wrote:
>
> 
> Enter your vote today!  A new poll has been created for the 
> ranchos group:
> 
> From time to time people not from our geographical area express
intereste in Ranchos. Here is my answer:
> 
> maybe there is a misunderstanding. we are focused on the states of
Jalisco, Zacatecas, and Aguascalientes. I don't understand why you
would be interested in this group? Now if you "THINK" that you might
have ties to this area then I'll subscribe you for a 1 year temporary
membership that we'll reconsider renewing next year depending on how
much you've discovered about your Jalisco, Zacatecas and/or
Aguascalientes roots or should I say tried to discover.
> 
> is this what you'd like to do?
> 
> Do you agree with this? Or should I make special exceptions for
those "high quality" researchers that express interest in the group?
> 
> I'm torn between being "fair" to all and the possible benefit to
"all" from letting a top researcher into the group.
> 
> what do you all think?
> 
> So far all of our polls have been invalid for lack of participation.
IF this one is to be valid I'll need 50% of you to weigh in so I can
tip the balance. It'd be best if 52% of you weighed in on one side so
my vote wouldn't be the deciding factor.
> 
> joseph 
> 
>   o Be Fair to all and restrict membership 
>   o Don't restrict we can learn a lot from others 
>   o Do like you're doing 
>   o hijola, good question holmes! 
> 
> 
> To vote, please visit the following web page:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ranchos/surveys?id=1823343 
> 
> Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are 
> not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups 
> web site listed above.
> 
> Thanks!
>