Dr.mt

Help trying to find my grandmothers Ggrandparents

Published by abram101 –

Im trying to find my grandmas Ggrandparents and even further.
Grandmas name Timotea Garcia Garcia born in La Estancia Nochistlan Zacatecas.Parents of Tmotea father Pablo Garcia mother Ysabel Garcia.Parents of Pablo Garcia both born in La Estancia father Felipe Garcia mother Timotea ulloa.Parents of Ysable Garcia Dario Garcia mother Victoriana Ponce.My grandmother told me that every one was born in La Estancia Zacatecas Mexico Except for Victoriana Ponce she was from Las Clavellinas Aguascalintes Mexico.Someone can please help me out would be very awesome

Published by Salvador94 – Sat, 2012-01-14 22:23 | Permalink

Comment

Hi Abram:

I'm 17 years old, I think that you're, like Daniel and me, one of the youngest of these group. I've been doing the genealogical research for about 3 years, but my interest in my family tree has been since many time before. I'm in high school, and I think Genealogy has affected a little bit my grades because sometimes instead of studying or doing my homework, I search for my ancestors haha but at the end I can manage to have everything done. I've been scheduling better my time, because besides school, I like going out a lot, doing sports and learning new things, so I need time for everything and Genealogy is one of my priorities. Is good to have people like our age investigating their ancestry, because now that we're young, many of us still have their grandparents, granduncles and sometimes greatgrandparents that with their oral information can provide us with valuable family facts.
I invite you to continue this great journey.

Enrique Agraz

Comment

Hi Enrique & Abram:

I'm 20 years old and have been doing genealogy since age 12, following my grandfather, a very excellent and serious researcher and my mother. Make sure that genealogy does not affect your grades. I never really had a problem, because each thing in life has its time and place. Genealogy can quickly become an addiction. I recall various moments staying up to 3 am at least twice a day, especially during the summer time, because I was about to crack a case, which I did. I love genealogy, history, especially colonial Mexico, but only as hobbies. My major is Legal Studies (Pre Law), the legal system is more of a passion for me, and just like genealogy it requires dedication and lots of hard work. Just remember slow and steady wins the race. In other words, yes life may be hectic at times, but if your willing to put in 1 hour a day, you have done more than 1 hour a week. Usually it is managable. I can still maintain my job, school, dating, gym time, going out a lot and church. I do
three hours max a day, often working on multiple projects at once.

Be persistant, dedicated, patient and you will see the results. I had the same problem, when I started at age 12, my grandfather and mother would "supervise" me when I would go through microfilm and piece information together. I had cracked lines where they had given out, because I was always very suspicious, a good analyzer and good at piecing things together. I do have to admit, I was horrible at reading the writing at age 12, over time, with persistence, I taught myself paleography and quickly picked up by analying and reading; although I still have difficult reading 12th century to about the late 15th century, skills I desire to attain.

Daniel Mendez de Torres Camino

Comment

Yes, Enrique,

I have been concerned about very young people getting hooked by the genealogy bug and neglecting their studies. Still, I think it is a more worthwhile pastime than just playing video games or texting friend all day long where you don't learn that much.

What you need to do is schedule a special day or afternoon of the week to do the genealogy. Just as you have to schedule your time with sports, so you will have to have a special schedule for the genealogy. Your priorities should be first homework, then sports and other extra-curricular activities, then alternate between play time (going out) and genealogy.

Do you think you could have a retired grandparent do some of the tedious research of images? Things go faster if you involve other members of the family who have the time. My cousins and I have gotten farther along working together rather than alone.

Emilie
Port Orchard, WA

> To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: enrique_agraz94@hotmail.com
> Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2012 21:23:14 -0800
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Young people in Genealogy
>
> Hi Abram:
>
> I'm 17 years old, I think that you're, like Daniel and me, one of the youngest of these group. I've been doing the genealogical research for about 3 years, but my interest in my family tree has been since many time before. I'm in high school, and I think Genealogy has affected a little bit my grades because sometimes instead of studying or doing my homework, I search for my ancestors haha but at the end I can manage to have everything done. I've been scheduling better my time, because besides school, I like going out a lot, doing sports and learning new things, so I need time for everything and Genealogy is one of my priorities. Is good to have people like our age investigating their ancestry, because now that we're young, many of us still have their grandparents, granduncles and sometimes greatgrandparents that with their oral information can provide us with valuable family facts.
> I invite you to continue this great journey.
>
> Enrique Agraz

Comment

Hello Emilie and Daniel:

Yes, I will plan better my time. Genealogy is amazing but it should not be an addiction, well at least not at my age. I can make an space in the day for family's research but after I've done my duties. I've invited some times my family members to participate with me but they don't like it to much. I have always hoped to have a girlfriend that likes Genealogy like me, it would be kind of another world to do research together. I remember that I encouraged a past girlfriend to investigate about her arabic ancestry, since her greatgrandfather was from Lebanon I think, but at the end it wasn't possible. Maybe some of you that are married, share this hobbie with your couple but personally most of the people I know find genealogy boring.

Daniel, is good to hear that you're studying to be a lawyer. Next scholar year i'm entering to university. I think i'm studying Medicine or Dentist since my father is a doctor and my mother a dentist, and I also like it.

Thanks for your advices,
Enrique

Comment

It is good to know I am not the only young person on this board. As I do not post often, I do not really get to know the other members on here, aside from the few I see who post often.

I actually did study history, so this was already one of my interests. I find learning local history interesting when you know that some of your ancestors have been in the area for over a century.

Comment

Add me to the list of the young on NR. I'm shocked to find so many of us around here! I only started really researching my ancestors a few years ago, having known I always wanted to. The best tip for the young researcher is to talk to grandparents and grand-aunts/uncles or anyone they can and take notes, and more notes! I remember even writing down a name my informant wasn't exactly sure how to pronounce fully because of lack of memory - but it ended up being a huge help in making a decision on which couple (two sets w/ same names) I should further research - I finally located certain 2nd great-grandparents on one branch I could never find before. It really is interesting to learn the history of the area your family is from... And to know, in my case, that ancestors have lived within 50 miles of where your own grandparents were born for at least 200 years. I have to aquire more skills to push into the earlier 1700s and onto the 1600s though. Time for genealogy is tricky with school/work, but it is a great hobby. Michael D. Castro

Comment

Hi Everyone,

Sorry if I am not constantly viewing the threads as much, I am doing lots of traveling. I like many in the group am one of those, "young genealogist." I am currently 19 years old. I remember growing up I had always been around genealogy, history, politics etc. It has been a passion and continues to be. Seeing the formation of your lines extend beyone number and creating research reports and taking part in serious investigations. I remember growing up, my grandfather and my mother were always researching and slowly and surely they allowed me to participate as young as age 12. I quickly learned the tricks and shortcuts, if you will. It is nice to know that young people are interested in genealogy.

Daniel Mendez de Torres Camino

Published by Armando – Sat, 2012-01-14 16:00 | Permalink

Comment

I found the baptism date of a child of Felipe Garcia and Timotea Ulloa
meaning this is a sibling of Pablo Garcia. This should give you the parents
of Felipe Garcia and of Timotea Ulloa who would be the paternal
ggrandparents of your grandmother. Navigate film 226689 in a systematic
manner, as I have described in a previous post, looking for the baptism
date of 31 Jul 1898
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/N8QG-N6T

In order to get the maternal ggrandparents of your grandmother you need a
birth, baptism or death record of your grandmother's mother or her maternal
grandparents or one of their siblings. Ask your grandmother if she knows
when her mother, Isabel Garcia, was born and when she died and when her
maternal grandparents, Dario Garcia and Victoriana Ponce, died and at what
age and where and if she knows any of those details about the siblings of
her maternal grandparents. Once you have as much of that info as possible
post it here to see if something can be found by someone here.

Victoriana Ponce might be the person been mentioned as Victoria Vera in the
following record in Ojo Caliente which might give you your grandmother's
maternal ggrandparents
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NDZW-XYCSearch film 226689 for
the record

Armando

On Fri, Jan 13, 2012 at 10:45 PM, wrote:

> Im trying to find my grandmas Ggrandparents and even further.
> Grandmas name Timotea Garcia Garcia born in La Estancia Nochistlan
> Zacatecas.Parents of Tmotea father Pablo Garcia mother Ysabel
> Garcia.Parents of Pablo Garcia both born in La Estancia father Felipe
> Garcia mother Timotea ulloa.Parents of Ysable Garcia Dario Garcia mother
> Victoriana Ponce.My grandmother told me that every one was born in La
> Estancia Zacatecas Mexico Except for Victoriana Ponce she was from Las
> Clavellinas Aguascalintes Mexico.Someone can please help me out would be
> very awesome

Published by oldcar53 – Sat, 2012-01-14 00:45 | Permalink

Comment

La Estancia still exists to this day in Nochistlan, It's my intention to visit "La Estancia the next time I go to Nochistlan.

Keep digging Abram and patiently go about doing your own research, this is how we all started. Many people on this site have given you lots of pointers but it's very important that by way of deducing dates on the records you find, you start to guesstimate which rolls of film you need to look at next. I'll give you an example.

* If the marriage document says the groom is soltero/single de 23 años de edad/23 years of age - when he was married and the year of the marriage is 1925, he could have been born sometime around 1900 +/- 5 years. That means you need to go to Zacatecas/Nochistlan/Bautismos/1895 thru 1905 and look in the index for the books pertaining to those years, that is if there is an index, some volumes don't have an index. If no index, then you have to look page by page and record by record. Believe it or not, you begin to read and understand the language, the terminology, the handwriting, the ranchos etc. There's nothing like doing your own research and while everyone here is willing to help you, you won't get very far unless you do the work yourself.
Alicia,
San Jose, Ca

________________________________
From: "aflore2855@gmail.com"
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Friday, January 13, 2012 8:45 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Help trying to find my grandmothers Ggrandparents

Im trying to find my grandmas Ggrandparents and even further.
Grandmas name Timotea Garcia Garcia born  in La Estancia Nochistlan Zacatecas.Parents of Tmotea father Pablo Garcia mother Ysabel Garcia.Parents of Pablo Garcia both born in La Estancia father Felipe Garcia mother Timotea ulloa.Parents of Ysable Garcia Dario Garcia mother Victoriana Ponce.My grandmother told me that every one was born in La Estancia Zacatecas Mexico Except for Victoriana Ponce she was from Las Clavellinas Aguascalintes Mexico.Someone can please help me out would be very awesome

Comment

Hi Abram,

I agree with Alicia 100%, yes it is nice for others to help you, but it's more worthwhile if you study your lines and be the investigator. My intimidation is starting a new area, that I am not comfortable with, this was with Zamora, my father's line. They settled there from 1611 up until 1787 and had no idea what I was getting my self into. I am very glad I did, because now I have a solid foundation of the families in the Obispado de Michoacan, though I can further my research by studying a bit more, you have to start of somewhere. I learned who owned what, who married who, who was who in Zamora, people's occupation, the many Dons and Donas in and out. Learn the handwriting, the terminology, the people, who owned what, the Spanish families who often intermarried, thus creating a need for dispensas, a document that has helped your line, learn the area well and become the expert in an area, from their branch off as your ancestors move. My journey has taken me to study most of N
ueva Galicia, Obispado de Michoacan, Provincia de Avalos, Mexico City, Colima and Nayarit. I would not mind stuyding northern Mexico, someday. My focus are the previous stated areas.

I wish you luck on your long lifetime journey

Daniel Mendez de Torres Camino

Comment

Abram Flores
I know what you mean like i said im a student so i really don't have time i have homework to do so there fore i ask alot of question on this little project of geneaology that i have going on, and that is the reason why i ask for help.And again thanks for everyone who has been helping i appreciate it alot.But after all i think it's a fun thing to do.

Comment

Okay, this makes sense. I know lots of people, especially students, I study at Brigham Young University, who started out as "project" until the genealogy bug bit them. Now it is an addiction; I was one of them. I am fourth generation researcher, I have documents relating to the first known researcher in my family who was my ancestor Capt. Joseph de Camino Trasgallo, he traveled to Spain in the late 1700s to find baptismal, marriage records of his parents, grandparents and great-grandparents to prove his nobleza and revalidate a document we call Ejecutoria de Nobleza in 1794, a document of 142 pages that my family conserves till this day. Eventually, the genealogy bug came onto my grandfather, mother and now myself. Together we have done wonders in this world of research. Though they retired from serious research, I still keep up to date.

Daniel

Published by gpf13 – Fri, 2012-01-13 23:49 | Permalink

Comment

Abram

The information from your grandmother is quite valuable, but you need to establish some dates, and hopefully confirm the places. "La Estancia" is a somewhat common name, and in principle, this could be in a number of towns.

A basic principle of genealogy research is to work from what you know, and go back.

Where I suggest you start is back with your grandfather, Candelario Armas, since you have the most concrete information on him at the moment, and use this as the key to get information on your grandmother. From what we have seen so far, from the 1930 Census for La Jabonera, he was born in 1930. So, we need to try to find either his baptism or civil birth record. Both of these are on line.

[Something to keep in mind is that this was right after the Cristero War, which had a major impact on the Church, and the sacraments of baptism and marriage. This could be a complication. But don't be too concerned about this at the moment.]

From the Nochistlan baptismal records, look for the baptism of your grandfather. This should be in 1930. There is a volume for 1929-31, so this is the place to start looking. The Nochistlan baptismal records have been indexed, so this will help you find the record. Sometimes the baptismal records of this period will have an annotation of when the person was married; this is especially true if the marriage took place in the same parish. Look for Candelario in the index at the beginning of the film, after you find him, find his baptismal record.

Then, look for the marriage record of your grandparents Candelario and Timoteo. If you are lucky, they were married in the parish as Candelario's baptism, and the baptismal record will be annotated.

From other information you provided earlier, a relative, Enedelia was born in 1959, so your grandparents were married before this year.

When you find your grandparents marriage record, you will find that it gives very little information, unlike the older ones you've seen. However, there will sometimes be a reference to the matrimonial investigation. If there is no reference, you will need to search the matrimonial investigation records for a month or two prior to their wedding date.

In general the matrimonial investigation with give birth dates, baptismal dates, where they are from, and parent's names. So they are quite important for this time period. Sometimes, again if you are lucky, they will give an exact reference to the baptismal record. If one of the partners came from another town, there might be a letter or certificate from the Priest of the church where he or she was baptized.

The matrimonial investigations are not indexed, but the modern ones are usually in chronological order. If you don't have a reference to a specific investigation, start looking about 2 months period to the wedding date. The modern ones are forms to be filled out, so they are pretty easy to search.

Something to keep in mind. The digitized images of baptisms and marriages at Family Search may contain more than one volume, and each volume is indexed separately. For example, the Family Search link might say something like "Bautismos 1891-1899" but it is actually a film with the volume for 1891-1895, and the volume for 1895-99. Each will have its own index. Each volume will start with page 1, so it is not too hard to find the second (or sometimes third index). The clue that a given link covers more than one volume is the page at the beginning of the film that says what is covered. If the date range dose not match that of the link, then you know.

If you don't have too much homework, this is a good weekend project!

George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA

Comment

Abram

Several of Nochistlan volumes of baptismal records have indexes, so when you find the person you need in the index, it will give you either a page or folio number. You don't need to look at every page for these records. If it says "Margarita 143" got to page 143 (or front side of folio 143); if it says "Margarita 143v," that means you go to the back side of folio 143.

When page numbers are used, every page (front and back) has a number. When folio numbers are used, the numbers are only on the front, or generally upper right hand corner of the front.

This should make it easy to find the record.

When you get to the point that you are using the Family Search searching feature, it will give you the date of record; you just look for the date. The records are in chronological order; there may be an ocassional record out of order, for these, just look in the preceding or following pages around the date of interest.

George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA

Comment

Honestly, there is no other way, especially when few extractions are available. I'm a rather young college student, but I can say if you "came from my generation" of researchers, you would have to turn page by page, roll by roll and the process took sometime, steady and surely results came in. I think it's such a blessing that most if not all films that pertain to my areas of research are online now. I would love to see more Spain films, but for Mexico, it has kept me busy. So much information out there just to be found. Just look at the dispensa that was provided you, which took you to 1825 or so. Most people would love to have such a document in their research. I can tell you be prepared for your lines to go into Teocaltiche, Aguascalientes and other parts of Zacatecas, we are talking about Nochistlan after all.

Daniel

Comment

Abram----There is no faster way. By searching page by page when you don't find someone in the index you often run into a record that gives you further leads, such as someone with the same parents. At least you can sit at home and search on the internet's Family Search where many, many records from Mexico now appear. When I first started over 12 years ago, we had to go to our local Family History Center at one of the Mormon churches and order the microfilms from their main archives in Salt Lake City (it used to cost six dollars per film for postage only), then wait more than two weeks or a month for the film to arrive, then go back to the center when the film arrived, load it onto microfilm readers, and turn the crank tediously looking at each image.

Now with the microfilm images online, it is easier and cheaper for the churches and the archives and the patrons. Also, the Ancestry.com databases (censuses, military records, border crossing records, etc) are very helpful. However, I no longer find their family trees all that helpful because the trolling robot software they use leads people astray. You will see the same ancestors on various trees with different descendants that can't possibly be, etc---such a mess). You have seen those ads on TV where it shows some guy saying "I clicked on the leaf, and I found that my parents lived next door to the Wright Brothers". It is not that easy----what if it wasn't his parents but someone with a similar name? They just want to hook people into subscribing by making it sound easy. What I usually find when I check the "shaking leaves"----no way could they be related except for a similar name---the location is wrong (California in the 1700s instead of Jalisco), or the birthdate i
s off by several years.

Don't neglect your homework at this stage in your life, however tempting it is to stay on the hunt for ancestors. Most of us here had years of school and long careers before we found the time to just sit for hours browsing the images. Just set apart a day when you can concentrate on the research so you don't feel pressed for time. You did a good thing by joining this group where you have experts on here who can tell you about places, history, do translations, help you read the old handwriting and abbreviations, and how to navigate the Family Search website.

Emilie
Port Orchard, WA

> To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: aflore2855@gmail.com
> Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2012 23:53:00 -0800
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] It's time for some
>
> Abram Flores
> i have a question so what can i do so it can make my searching a little bit faster than just turning page by page?

History, Culture and General Discussion

Surnames question - Ruis de Esparza from Teocaltiche, Jalisco

Published by ArturoG –

Hi,

I'm hoping to figure out the last name of Jose Antonio Claudio Ruis de Esparza and of Maria Gonzales Bermejo, both found here:
https://beta.familysearch.org/s/recordDetails/show?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fpil…

All subsequent records for the former are "Antonio Esperza". But his father and grandfather are "Ruis de Esparza" so I can't figure out whether "Ruis de Esparza" is a full last name or the combination of two last names. Looking at the families in the above record doesn't give any clues.

Also I can't figure out the surname(s) for Maria Gonzales Bermejo. It seems that both last names are used together in reference to her father, rather than father and mother.

Does anyone have any insight into these families in Teocaltiche area?

Thanks, Arturo

Published by Armando – Thu, 2010-12-02 19:45 | Permalink

Comment

Hello Arturo,

I am sure there are people on here that are familiar with the grandparents
and hopefully they can provide more insight on them. What I can tell you is
that Ruiz de Esparza is a compounded surname (apellido compuesto) that
originated in Pamplona, Navarra. The first in México was Lope Ruíz de
Esparza y Eguinoa who married Francisca Gabay, a descendant of Moctezuma.
Her mother was Petronila Moctezuma and her grandmother was Leonor Moctezuma.
The exact relationship with Moctezuma hasn't been proven and there are two
theories on the subject. http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/es/node/16324 Many
of us, including myself, are descendants of Lope Ruíz de Esparza and
Francisca Gabay. As far as both the paternal and maternal grandmothers
surnames being the same, Gonzales Bermejo, it could be because they are
either cousins or sisters. There should be a dispensa for the marriage of
Jose Maria Ruiz de Esparza and Juana Maria Villanueva with more genealogical
information. They married 08 Jan 1783 in Teocaltiche
http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#p=recordimage&c=f…
Maria Villanueva was baptized in 1766
http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#p=recordimage&c=f…
is all I could find. Gonzalez is likely short for the compound surname
of either Gonzalez de Rubalcava or Gonzalez de Hermosillo. I also have
ancestors with those surnames.

Armando

On Thu, Dec 2, 2010 at 3:35 PM, wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I'm hoping to figure out the last name of Jose Antonio Claudio Ruis de
> Esparza and of Maria Gonzales Bermejo, both found here:
>
> https://beta.familysearch.org/s/recordDetails/show?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fpil…
>
> All subsequent records for the former are "Antonio Esperza". But his father
> and grandfather are "Ruis de Esparza" so I can't figure out whether "Ruis de
> Esparza" is a full last name or the combination of two last names. Looking
> at the families in the above record doesn't give any clues.
> Also I can't figure out the surname(s) for Maria Gonzales Bermejo. It seems
> that both last names are used together in reference to her father, rather
> than father and mother.
> Does anyone have any insight into these families in Teocaltiche area?
>
> Thanks, Arturo
>
>

Comment

Saludos Armando y Arturo:

Respondo sobre los Gonzalez-Bermejo, tambien soy desciendiente de esta familia varias veces.
Empezo con Juan de la Cruz Martin-Bermejo casado con Andrea Gonzalez de Besares, el de Aguascalientes
y ella Nochistlan ya por los principios del siglo XVII, en varios registros tambien se nota que utilizaron
el apellido DE LA CRUZ BERMEJO significando que su patriarch Juan de la Cruz Martin Bermejo, pues
DE LA CRUz podia ser apellido en su caso.

La razon por lo cual fue componido el apellido era probable que los dichos truvieron un hijo llamado
Francisco y su abuelo materno era Francisco Gonzalez y MAgdalena de Besares naturales de Segovia
en los Reinos de Castilla. el nieto Francisco compuso los apellidos a Francisco Gonzalez-Bermejo quien
caso Ana de Aguayo, natural de Nochistlan casados 26 de marzo de 1666 en dicho lugar. De aqui
procede la familia Gonzalez-Bermejo.

Ahora hay otras lineas de la familia que componieron otros nombres Perez Bermejo, de la Cruz Bermejo,
y siguio el original Martin-Bermejo. Lugares como Aguascalientes, Teocaltiche, Nochistlan y los Altos de
Jalisco. Su solar novogallego era Aguascalientes donde llego Alonso Martin-Bermejo padre del Juan
casado hacia 1619 en Aguascalientes con Isabel Lopez de Gardea hija de Martin Perez de Gardea y
Mariana Gonzalez de Ruvalcaba. Isabel Lopez Gardea fallecio 23 de septiembre de 1638 en Aguascalientes.
Por lo menos tuvieron cinco hijos.

Daniel Mendez y Camino

Comment

Juan Manuel de Villanueva caso Isabel Gonzalez-Bermejo el 25 de abril de 1759
en Teocaltiche. Bautizaron por lo menos dos hijos Juana Maria 16 de julio de 1766
y Jose Eusevio el 15 de marzo de 1783 todos en Teocaltiche. Los tengo en mis archivos
pero aun no he estudiado esta linea. Le sugiero que ordene ese registro matrimonial.

Sobre tus Ruiz de Esparza unas de mis lineas Esparza proviene de Teocaltiche, podemos
ser parientes cercanos varios Bermejo de diferentes lineas llegaron a la misma vez
a Teocaltiche es imposible saber la posibilidad que cual de ellas sin estudiarlo profundamente.

Daniel Méndez y Camino

Comment

Según Familysearch el matrimonio de Juan Manuel de Villanueva con Isabel Gonzalez-Bermejo en el 25 de abril de 1759 fue en Ayo el Chico.

Groom's Name: Juan Manuel Villanueba
Groom's Birth Date:
Groom's Birthplace:
Groom's Age:
Bride's Name: Ysabel Gonsales
Bride's Birth Date:
Bride's Birthplace:
Bride's Age:
Marriage Date: 25 Apr 1759
Marriage Place: San Agustin,Ayo El Chico,Jalisco,Mexico
Groom's Father's Name: Nicolas De Villanueba
Groom's Mother's Name: Juana Robledo
Bride's Father's Name: Luciano Gonsales
Bride's Mother's Name: Maria Leocadia De Chaves
Groom's Race:
Groom's Marital Status:
Groom's Previous Wife's Name:
Bride's Race:
Bride's Marital Status:
Bride's Previous Husband's Name:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M60447-7
System Origin: Mexico-ODM
Source Film Number: 280787
Reference Number:
Collection: Mexico Marriages, 1570-1950
http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#p=recordimage&c=f…

Armando

Comment

Matrimonio de Marcelino Luciano Gonzales con Maria Leocadia De Chaves Fragozo. Posiblemente fueron los padres de Ysabel Gonzales Bermejo.

Groom's Name: Marcelino Luciano Gonzales
Groom's Birth Date:
Groom's Birthplace:
Groom's Age:
Bride's Name: Maria Leocadia De Chaves Fragozo
Bride's Birth Date:
Bride's Birthplace:
Bride's Age:
Marriage Date: 04 Feb 1742
Marriage Place: Nuestra Senora De Los Dolores,Teocaltiche,Jalisco,Mexico
Groom's Father's Name:
Groom's Mother's Name:
Bride's Father's Name:
Bride's Mother's Name:
Groom's Race:
Groom's Marital Status:
Groom's Previous Wife's Name:
Bride's Race:
Bride's Marital Status:
Bride's Previous Husband's Name:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M60248-7
System Origin: Mexico-ODM
Source Film Number: 639755
Reference Number:
Collection: Mexico Marriages, 1570-1950

http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#p=recordimage&c=f…

Armando

Comment

Saludos Armando y Arturo:

Parece que si son los mismos, todavia sugiero ordenar ese registro y verlo para verificarlo.
Tendo una dispensa que menciona a Marcelino Luziano de Villanueva y Maria Leocadia
de Chavez Fragoso en dicha dispensa menciona que es hija de Alejandro de Chavez Fragoso
y Paula de Rivas y que Maria Leocadia era natural de San Felipe (Gto.) en el Obispado de Michoacan.
Me recuerdo de esto pero no se cual dispensa necesito revisarlo de nuevo, permite algunos dias
para buscarlo.

Estos ultimos son mis antepasados Jose Antonio de Chavez Fragoso casado con
Maria de los Dolores de Colunga Cortes, natural de Villa de Reyes (SLP.). La razon porque Maria
Leocadia era mencionada es que era testiga ya que una de sus hermanas Maria Gertrudis de
Chavez Fragoso caso a dos Gonzalez-Bermejo, los dos eran primos primer nupcias con
Juan Manuel Gonzalez Bermejo hijo de Juan Gonzalez de Bermejo y Gertrudis Lopez de Nava
y segunda nupcias con dispensa por ser primo de su esposo
Jose Gonzalez Bermejo hijo de Diego Gonzalez Bermejo y Andrea Lopez de Nava.

Tengo la dispensa por aqui en mi biblioteca que estuve organizando y archivando pero el tiempo
me roba. Tambien se puede encontrar en el libro de Montejano Hilton, La Sagrada Mitra de
Guadalajara. Enviare una extraccion.

Daniel Méndez y Camino

Comment

Armando y Daniel,
Gracias por toda la informacion. Ay mucho que he emprendido sobre los Ruis de Esparzas y Gonzalez-Bermejo. Daniel, primo, has hecho la coneccion entre Franciso Gonzalez-Bermejo/Ana de Aguayo y Isabel Gonzalez-Bermejo?

Ademas, encontre Francisco Gonzalez-Bermejo con appellido "de La Cruz Bermejo" cuando se caso con Ana de Aguayo:
https://beta.familysearch.org/s/recordDetails/show?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fpil…

Ademas, busco la boda de J. Felix Ventura y Maria Refugio Palacio Esparza. Se que tuvioren hijos en Teocaltiche y Nochistlan por los 1850 y 1860s. Y que los padres de Refugio se casaron en Febrero 9, 1839 en Nochistlan. Tambien busco el naciemento de los Felix y Refugio. A lo menos los hijos Miguel y Juana de Felix y Refugio se casaron en Jalpa en los 1870s con gente de Jalpa (yo creo) y fueron los fundadores de los troncos de me familia (uno de mi papa, y el otro de mi mama).

Gracias, Arturo

Comment

Estimado primo Arturo,

Todavia estoy siguiendo la linea de Isabel Gonzalez Bermejo pienso que puedo conectarlo pero tomara mucho estudio.
Aver que encuentro.

Acerca de tus Ventura y Palacios-Esparza encontre lo siguiente los partidos bautismales conste que los abuelos
maternos deberian ser Andres Palacios e Isabel Esparza.

Name: Balentina Ventura Palacio
Gender: Female
Baptism/Christening Date: 19 Feb 1860
Baptism/Christening Place: NUESTRA SENORA DE LOS DOLORES,TEOCALTICHE,JALISCO,MEXICO
Father's Name: Felix Ventura
Mother's Name: Refugio Palacio
Paternal Grandfather's Name:
Paternal Grandmother's Name:
Maternal Grandfather's Name: Andres
Maternal Grandmother's name: Ysabel Esparza
Source Film Number: 638757

Name: Mauricia Bentura Palacio
Gender: Female
Baptism/Christening Date: 28 Sep 1856
Baptism/Christening Place: NUESTRA SENORA DE LOS DOLORES,TEOCALTICHE,JALISCO,MEXICO
Father's Name: Felix Bentura
Mother's Name: Refugio Palacio
Paternal Grandfather's Name:
Paternal Grandmother's Name:
Maternal Grandfather's Name: Andres
Maternal Grandmother's name: Ysabel Esparza
Source Film Number: 638756

Parece que estos eran de Nochistlan ya como mencionastes. Encontre el partido matrimonial tuvieron varios hijos.

Groom's Name: Andres Palacio
Groom's Birth Date: 1821
Groom's Age: 18
Bride's Name: Maria Ysabel Esparza
Bride's Birth Date: 1821
Bride's Age: 18
Marriage Date: 09 Feb 1839
Marriage Place: Nochistlan,Zacatecas,Mexico
Groom's Father's Name: Fermin Palacio
Groom's Mother's Name: Maria Juana Vallin
Bride's Father's Name: Antonio Esparza
Bride's Mother's Name: Maria Antonia Garcia
Source Film Number: 226730

Daniel Méndez y Camino

Comment

Mendeztorrez,

Hello there,
So im working on my Gonzalez de Bermejo line and i came across this thread so from my interpretation my ancestor Francisco Gonzalez Bermejo parents are Juan De La Cruz Bermejo and Andrea Gonzalez De Besares, and Juan De La Cruz Bermejo's parents are Alonso Martin-Bermejo and Isabel Lopez Gardea.My spanish isn't so great so i hope this is right.

Genealogy Research

Cristoval Delgadillo Francisca Gil Sotomayor??

Published by abram101 –

Iv'e been trying to look for this individuals marriage record but really can't find it all i can find is the baptism of their kids and it's and confusing how some baptisms record says that the son or daughter is born in some other place like this one

Barbara Delgadillo Gil
gender: Female
baptism/christening date: 15 Nov 1711
baptism/christening place (((Nuestra Señora de los Dolores, Teocaltiche, Jalisco, Mexico
race: White
father's name: Cristobal Delgadillo
father's birthplace:
father's age:
mother's name: Francisca Gil De Sotomayor
mother's birthplace:
It's really confusing but im pretty sure well sort of that this is their daughter
I descend from their nephew Jose Julian Delgadillo he married Ana Petronila Delgadillo
And i actually never heard of this last name Sotomayor?

Published by R.A.Ricci (not verified) – Sun, 2012-02-19 01:45 | Permalink

Comment

Some of my sotomayor ancestors would use Soto. Or. The compound name Martinez de Sotomayor or Martin de Sotomayor. Most used Martin de Sotomayor. They were from Tepa. Jalos Teocaltiche and aguas.
R A Ricci
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: aflore2855@gmail.com
Sender: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2012 23:04:40
To:
Reply-To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Cristoval Delgadillo Francisca Gil Sotomayor??

Iv'e been trying to look for this individuals marriage record but really can't find it all i can find is the baptism of their kids and it's and confusing how some baptisms record says that the son or daughter is born in some other place like this one

Barbara Delgadillo Gil
gender: Female
baptism/christening date: 15 Nov 1711
baptism/christening place (((Nuestra Señora de los Dolores, Teocaltiche, Jalisco, Mexico
race: White
father's name: Cristobal Delgadillo
father's birthplace:
father's age:
mother's name: Francisca Gil De Sotomayor
mother's birthplace:
It's really confusing but im pretty sure well sort of that this is their daughter
I descend from their nephew Jose Julian Delgadillo he married Ana Petronila Delgadillo
And i actually never heard of this last name Sotomayor?

Published by gpf13 – Sun, 2012-02-19 01:27 | Permalink

Comment

Sotomayor is not an unusual name.

Sonia Sotomayor, as an example, is an Associate Justice of the Supreme Court, having been appointed in 2009. In her case, she is of Puerto Rican descent, and not Mexican.

George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA

Genealogy Research

Lopez de Elizalde

Published by drortiz –

I have found the surname Lopez de Elizalde with a number of variations, but
Lopes seemed predominant; and the name Elizalde was more often spelled as
some variation of Lizarde.

Published by abram101 – Fri, 2012-10-19 11:33 | Permalink

Comment

drortiz,

Do you have any info on Nicolas Lopez De Lizarde who married Josepha De Carvajal they had about 6 children all from Nochistlan Zac?I just can't find their parents any help will be gladly appreciated.

Published by matusalem – Wed, 2010-03-17 09:56 | Permalink

Comment

Aún no he condeguido alguna pista sobre los Elizalde de Zacatecas....que no hay ningun ELIZALDE en el foro????? hacia 1823 aparece en Aguascalientes: GREGORIO ELIZALDE casado con ANACLETA SALAS. Alguien tendrá alguna referencia? Gracias

Published by Esther Jordan Lopez – Wed, 2010-03-17 19:30 | Permalink

Comment

Amanda?
Do they have to be from Zacatecas?  I foundJose Gregorio Elisalde Banuelos, ch.
14 May 1825, San Pedro, Guadalcazar, San Luis Potosi [C607515 (1821-1826) film
#0709013]married to Anacleta Salas(b.1827) about 1848.  I have a bunch of
information for this couple (his parents, children, etc,).  If you want this
info. let me know and I will email to you.

-Esther Jordan Lopez
 
 

On March 17, 2010 at 4:56 PM amandamarycela@yahoo.com wrote:

>  Aún no he condeguido alguna pista sobre los Elizalde de Zacatecas....que no
>hay ningun ELIZALDE en el foro????? hacia 1823 aparece en Aguascalientes:
>GREGORIO ELIZALDE casado con ANACLETA SALAS. Alguien tendrá alguna referencia? 
>Gracias

Published by matusalem – Fri, 2010-03-19 11:22 | Permalink

Comment

Efectivamente, ellos son mis ancestros....y si quisiera me enviaras esa información.No tengo de donde sacarla, pues no vivo en Zacatecas.Muchas gracias de antemano. Una pregunta.....tienes conexion con ellos????

Saludos Amanda.

Published by matusalem – Sat, 2010-02-13 09:58 | Permalink

Comment

Hola....leí que sabes algo de los Elizalde....me podrías dar la información??? mi bisabuela era Elizalde de Aguascalientes, pero venian de Zacatecas.

Genealogy Research

Katy Brecht

Published by Joseph de Leon –

I want to publicly thank my cousin Katy Brecht for all her incredible research in our family genealogy and helping me maintain accurate records! I know that our ancestors are watching over her shoulders late at night and also thanking her!!

Joseph de Leon

Published by October Fly (not verified) – Wed, 2012-10-17 15:15 | Permalink

Comment

Joseph,

I recently started communicating with your cousin, and she has been very helpful. I believe I have made a very important connection/breakthrough in my family tree, with her help. In turn, I look forward to sharing my discovery with her. I would also like to take the opportunity, to thank her.

Genealogy Research

baptismal records rincon de romos 1762 - 1769

Published by Denise Hernand… –

Hello

Hoping someone can help me.

I can't find the bapt records for Rincon de Romos between 1762 - 1769.

I am trying to find the records for Raphael Prudencio Romo (b. 1765) and Raphael Silvestre Romo (b. 1767). The source film for the indexed record of their birth specified Rincon de Romos (not Aguas Aguas Sagra as mentioned in the indexed record for them). The film number itself lead to nowhere, but I did figure out to search for other siblings in the index:

They had two sisters:
Maria Rufina de la Encarnacion b. 13 march 1760
(I found the image of her record in the book for San Jose de Gracia in Rincon de Romos, https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-12044-34719-49?cc=1410092&… )

Maria de Guadalupe b. 1 dec 1762 - her record, which I would also like to see, is in the gap as well.

The index of records in Family Search jump from the interval 1726 - 1762, to 1769 - 1776:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-11116-110331-19?cc=1410092…

Baptisms in the gap must have been recorded elsewhere - so if anyone has done research in this "gap" could you please provide me with the link?

Regards
Denise Fastrup

Published by Denise Hernand… – Wed, 2012-10-17 04:35 | Permalink

Comment

Oops! I asked for help with birth records back on 18 july of this year, and Bill Figueroa kindly provided the links to the images. (Thanks again, Bill!)

They were in the records for Sagrario, including la Hacienda de Santiago.

Denise

Genealogy Research

found misplaced baptismal info/ encontre informacion de bautizo fuera de lugar

Published by mazochoa –

Hello everyone,

I was looking through baptismal records for San Jose de Analco,Guadalajara and I noticed that in the records marked 1851-1853 there is a section of misplaced 1843 records. I know how frustrating it is to encounter missing records so I wanted to make note. Here is the link for 1843

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-19362-34875-41?cc=1874591&wc…

I hope this helps someone.

Mazo

Hola,

Estaba buscando entre registros de bautizo de San José de Analco, Guadalajara y me di cuenta de que en los registros marcados 1851-1853 hay una sección fuera de lugar de 1843 registros. Yo sé lo frustrante que es no encontrar registros que faltan, así que quería hacer nota. Aquí está el enlace para el 1843

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-19362-34875-41?cc=1874591&wc…

Espero que esto ayude a alguien.

Mazo

Published by Denise Hernand… – Wed, 2012-10-17 04:07 | Permalink

Comment

Thanks Mazochoa!

Although these are not the records I am looking for, its the kind of mixup that can really set a stopper to someone's research...who the heck would think to look there? So thanks for taking the time to post it - someone out there will surely be grateful!

I have found a gap in baptismal records in Aguascalientes today (7 years) which I am hoping someone can help me out with (I just posted on it a little while ago).

Regards
Denise Fastrup

Genealogy Research

Having such a hard time finding my 3great grandfather

Published by abram101 –

Sebastian Munoz the only info i have from him he was from La Jabonera Nochistlan Zacatecas he married Sostenes Aguirre.
He was born approx 1875
I went page by page through the baptisms of the civil registrations
Nochistlan Zacatecas 1874-1877 & nothing today is going to be my 12th try.So please if anyone can help me find this Sebastian Munoz it would be really appreciated.

Genealogy Research

LOZANO

Published by Sofia –

Hello Everyone,

I have become confused in a part of my research. I tried looking up where I could email
Dr. Mariano González Leal because it is due to his book, Retoños de España, Tomo V, that I am confused.
I will explain so if anyone can help me out of my confusion or has Dr. Mariano González Leal’s email I would very much appreciate it.
In my research I have Nicolas Francisco Lozano married to Antonia Micaela Garcia and they had Joseph Candido Lozano. Up to here he has the same thing, but he does not have the wife I have for Joseph Candido. I have Maria Dolores Camarena. He mentions only two marriages. I relooked at the LDS site to double check and the copies of the films where I had found the info, but it remains the same for me.
The way I have it is like this:

Nicolás Francisco Lozano + Antonia Micaela García

Joseph Candido Lozano + María Dolores Camarena

José Marcelo de la Trinidad Lozano + Juana María Gertrudis González Gutiérrez

José Guadalupe Lozano + María Lina de Jesús Medina Ramírez

I will appreciate any help.
Thank you.

Sofia

Hola a Todos,

Estoy confundida en un parte de mi investigación. Traté de buscar donde podría enviar un correo electrónico a Dr. Mariano González Leal, ya que se debe a su libro, Retoños de España, Tomo V, que estoy confundida.
Voy a explicar para ver si alguien me puede ayudar a salir de mi confusión o tiene el correo electrónico de Dr. Mariano González Leal.
En mi investigación, Nicolás Francisco Lozano esta casado con Micaela Antonia García y tuvieron José Cándido Lozano. Hasta aquí el Señor Mariano González Leal tiene la misma cosa, pero él no tiene la esposa que tengo por José Cándido. Yo tengo María Dolores Camarena. Él menciona sólo dos matrimonios. He buscado otra vez en el sitio de LDS y las copias de las películas en las que había encontrado la información, pero sigue siendo el mismo.
La forma en que lo tengo es la siguiente:

Nicolás Francisco Lozano + Antonia Micaela García

Joseph Candido Lozano + María Dolores Camarena

José Marcelo de la Trinidad Lozano + Juana María Gertrudis González Gutiérrez

José Guadalupe Lozano + María Lina de Jesús Medina Ramírez

Agradeceré cualquier ayuda.
Gracias.

Sofia

Published by resco16 – Mon, 2012-10-15 19:50 | Permalink

Comment

Hi Sofia. The name Lozano is coming up now in my search and this is a new name my grandparents never told me about. I was looking for my great great grandfather, Gavino Escobedo, and found a church record which listed him as Gavino Lozano with parents of "Estevan y Francisca Lozano." I also found another which showed Esteban Escobedo y Francisca Lina (or Lira) and was curious if you had a Francisca, Vidal, or possibly Teodoro Lozano. My family comes from all over but mostly it seems like Zacatecas. Thank you for your time.

Robert

Published by Sofia – Tue, 2012-10-16 16:06 | Permalink

Comment

Hi Robert
I looked in the book Rotoños de España, but did not find anything for the names you said.
I do have a Francisca Lozano Medina but she is married to Pedro Muñoz Angel and she was from San Juan de los Lagos.
Sorry.

Sofia

Genealogy Research

Alvarez-Tostado y Munoz de Nava (Att :Adrian Marquez)

Published by chilerey54 –

Hola , Tengo un Lorenzo Alvarez-Tostado y Francisca Rita Munoz de Nava que son mis ante pasados. Lo que quiero saber quien son los padres . La hija de Lorenzo y Francisca ---Petra Rita de San Rafael Alvarez-Tostado nacida el 12 de Feb.1749 en San Juan de Los Lagos(Bautismos -de San Juan de Los Lagos -1745-1756 Image/Pagina # 189. Hay tienen de padrinos un Joseph Munoz de Nava y Micaela Gomez. Esta pareja yo pienso que son los padres de Francisca Rita Munoz de Nava,pero es lo que pienso ,no tengo pruebas.
Tambien hay un Agustin Munoz de Nava(hijo de Joseph Munoz de Nava y Micaela Gomez ) y Ana Rosalia Padilla-Davila casados el 29 de enero 1753 en Jalostotitlan. Tienen Lorenzo Alvarez y Rita Munoz de Nava de Padrinos. Pienso que Rita Munoz de Nava es su hermano.
Lo de Lorenzo Alvarez-Tostado no tengo idea de nada.
Gracias por su tiempo
Ronnie Reynoso

Published by verodamian – Tue, 2012-10-16 14:35 | Permalink

Comment

Que tal Ronnie,
Desgraciadamente no tengo mayores datos, yo estoy realizando la investigacion genealogica de Santa Anita, Jalisco y tengo a tus ancestros y no se si te ayude, pero aquí dicen que vienen de Teocaltiche.
Su hijo Atenogenes fué subdelegado y comandante de Tlajomulco, pero eso seguramente ya lo sabes. En fin, busca si no lo haz hecho en archivos de Teocaltiche, espero encuentres algo que te ayude.

Saludos y todo lo mejor!
Veronica Rodriguez

Comment

Javier González López Portillo Espero y te sirva la siguiente Info.
Diego Alvarez Tostado y Rosa María Román Hernández son los padres de Joseph Lorenzo y Joseph Muñoz de Nava de Hermosillo y Michaela Gómez Hurtado de Mendoza lo son de Francisca Rita Muñoz de Nava
15 enero 1748 casó Joseph Lorenzo y Francisca Rita (San Juan de Los Lagos matrimonios 1722 -1770 san Juan imagen 297 CASO EN EL PAPALOTE)
Tengo por ahi un cruce con descendientes directos Jose Pablo Marquez de Anda casado con Severa Ramirez, Demetrio Marques Florentina Moran etc
Saludos

Genealogy Research

Escasees de maíz en 1785. (Puebla, Valladolid, Oaxaca, Guadalajara y Durango)

Published by verodamian –

Que tal amigos,

Estaba mirando un documento de Tlajomulco sobre los problemas en 1785 por la escasees de maiz, la falta de lluvia y las intensas heladas en las regiones de Puebla, Valladolid (Morelia), Oaxaca, Guadalajara y Durango. Aqui esta la reforma extraordinaria para hacer frente a la crisis.

Enlace: http://proyectosantaanita.blogspot.mx/2012/10/acciones-contra-el-hambre…

History, Culture and General Discussion

GEDCOM

Published by Visitor (not verified) –

Hello again,,,can one of the administrators please create a gedcom so that i can upload the one in rootsweb ?

Published by Pat Silva Corbera – Mon, 2012-10-15 21:15 | Permalink

Comment

Arturo and Joseph,

Is the GEDCOM tree submitted by a NR member open to additions/changes by other members of NR without notifying the original GEDCOM submitter?

I have about 4 entries in my GEDCOM tree file that contain names that I don't even have in my PAF program.

These entries have a modified date of 15 Mar 2012.

Jose Patricio Salamanca Hernandez (12038)
Fernando Hernandez (12036)
Ma. Refugio Hernandez
There's one with no name but a number of (12040)

If this is the case, then I'd like to remove my GEDCOM file from NR...and submit a modified version in a pedigree chart format...

Thank you,
Pat Silva Corbera

Genealogy Research

Direct Maternal Ancestry and mtDNA Haplogroup H1

Published by FamiliasJalos –

Primos & Primas,
I have updated my CORRECT maternal ancestry after reviewing marriage records. In addition, I would be interested in collaborating with those who have mtDNA Haplogroup H1:

Jalostotitlan, San Miguel El Alto, Cerro Blanco & Tepatitlán de Morelos, Jalisco, Mexico

1. Grandparents: Secundino Gutierrez & Maria de Jesus Gutierrez
2. Great-Grandparents: Juan Gutierrez & Rita Gonzalez
3. GGrandparents: Felipe Gonzalez & Juliana Gomez
4. GGrandparents: Versulo Gomez & Balvina de la Torre
5. GGrandparents: Rafael De La Torre & Maria de la Merced Gonzalez
6. GGrandparents: Miguel Gonzalez de Hermosillo & Anna Josefa Romo de Vivar
7. GGrandparents: Sebastian Romo de Vivar & Francisca Pares/Perez Franco
8. GGrandparents: Alonso Perez Franco & Juana Casillas
9. GGrandparents: Francisco Casillas y Cabrera & Luisa Lozano Gonzales
10. GGrandparents: Jacinto Lozano Gonzalez & Juana Gonsales de Rubalcaba Rodas
11. GGrandparents: Fulgencio Gonzalez de Rubalcaba & Luisa de Rodas
12. GGrandparents: Hernando Villegas & Ines Lopez de Nava
13. GGrandparents: Juan Lopez de Nava & Ines Lopez Muniz

Thank you to all my Nuestros Ranchos primos/primas for your continued assistance in researching our ancestors!
Rosa - FamiliasJalos

Primos y Primas,
Hola. He actualizado mi ascendencia materna correcta después de revisar los registros de matrimonio. Además, estaría interesado en colaborar con ustedes que tienen ADNmt haplogrupo H1:

Jalostotitlán, San Miguel El Alto, Cerro Blanco y Tepatitlán de Morelos, Jalisco, México

1. Abuelos: Secundino Gutiérrez y María de Jesús Gutiérrez
2. Bisabuelos: Juan Gutiérrez y Rita González
3. Bisabuelos: Felipe González y Juliana Gómez
4. Bisabuelos: Versulo Gómez y Balvina de la Torre
5. Bisabuelos: Rafael De La Torre y María de la Merced González
6. Bisabuelos: Miguel González de Hermosillo y Ana Josefa Romo de Vivar
7. Bisabuelos: Sebastián Romo de Vivar y Francisca Pares / Pérez Franco
8. Bisabuelos: Alonso Pérez Franco y Juana Casillas
9. Bisabuelos: Casillas y Francisco Cabrera y Luis Lozano González
10. Bisabuelos: Jacinto Lozano González y Juana Gonsales de Rubalcaba Rodas
11. Bisabuelos: Fulgencio González de Rubalcaba y Luisa de Rodas
12. Bisabuelos: Hernando Villegas y López Inés de Nava
13. Bisabuelos: Juan López de Nava y Muñiz López Inés

¡Gracias a todos mis primos/primas de Nuestros Ranchos para su continua asistencia en la investigación de nuestros antepasados!
Rosa - FamiliasJalos

Published by Pat Silva Corbera – Wed, 2012-10-10 12:15 | Permalink

Comment

Both of you shared the common ancestry of Fulgencio Gonzalez de Rubalcaba y Luisa de Rodas.

I have this couple in my data file with a daughter Ines Gonzalez de Ruvalcaba who married Miguel Gutierrez de Hermosillo... Marriage date of 14 Apr 1654 Lagos De Moreno, Jalisco...

I have a couple of questions:

1.) Do either one of you have Ines/Ynes in your file as being a sibling of Beatriz Gonzalez de Rubalcaba y de Rodas and Juana Gonsales de Rubalcaba Rodas?

2.) What source/s do you have for Beatriz and Juana?

3.) I did find a reference online to Santa Maria De Los Lagos, Logos De Moreno, Jalisco...Film # 221404 in the Bautismos 1634-1665 for Ines y Miguel, but didn't locate their record dated 14 Apr 1654, though there are marriage records in with the bapt records. Would these marriage records for this time frame be listed under a different parish?

I have no additional information as to Ines y Miguel's offspring...Tino's link is through Miguel Gutierrez de Hermosillo son of Juan Gonzalez de Hermosillo y Ana Gonzalez Florida. His linking is through this couple's daughter Ana Gonzalez de Hermosillo married to Diego Sanchez-Carranza

Juan and Ana are Tino's 9th ggparents.

Ines Gonzalez de Ruvalcaba is his 8th ggaunt through her marriage to Miguel Gutierrez de Hermosillo (Tino's 8th gguncle) and not a direct line.

Appreciate your help - Thank you,
Pat & Tino Corbera
Tracy CA

*Footnote: Tino's mtDNA HVR1 & HVR2 is Haplogroup A (Native American)... My HVR1 & HVR2 Haplogroup is H1. My ancestors were mainly from the Madeira Islands, Portugal & Western Europe.

Comment

Pat,
Sorry I haven't responded sooner. I'm very stressed for time these days
and don't expect that to change in the near future. My source is
secondary, ie *Retonos de Espana en la Nueva Galicia *by Mariano
Gonzalez-Leal. I have found it to be so rich a source of info for me that
I haven't had time to post all my ancestor's sibs, nor have I had much time
to use it to guide me to the primary sources, which I need to do. Ynes,
Beatriz and Juana are noted as sisters on pages 311-314 of Tomo IV, Vol.
2. In Tomo IV, Vol 1, pg 250 lists only two children for Miguel and
Ines--Lorenza Gutierrez de Rodas, md to Joseph Perez-Franco, and Miguel
Gutierrez de Hermosillo, d 1697, md in Lagos in 1684 to Emerenciana de
Reynoso y Renteria. I really do recommend the *Retonos* series. While I
have come across some omissions (very few, given its scope), it is a wealth
of information.
Raquel Ruiz

Comment

Thank you Raquel for confirming that Ines is one of the family daughters.

Where did you purchase these Volumes? I checked the Internet but didn't see them listed for sale...

Pat Silva Corbera

----- Original Message -----
From: "Raquel Ruiz"
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Monday, October 15, 2012 2:42:21 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Direct Maternal Ancestry and mtDNA haplogroup H1

Pat,
Sorry I haven't responded sooner. I'm very stressed for time these days
and don't expect that to change in the near future. My source is
secondary, ie *Retonos de Espana en la Nueva Galicia *by Mariano
Gonzalez-Leal. I have found it to be so rich a source of info for me that
I haven't had time to post all my ancestor's sibs, nor have I had much time
to use it to guide me to the primary sources, which I need to do. Ynes,
Beatriz and Juana are noted as sisters on pages 311-314 of Tomo IV, Vol.
2. In Tomo IV, Vol 1, pg 250 lists only two children for Miguel and
Ines--Lorenza Gutierrez de Rodas, md to Joseph Perez-Franco, and Miguel
Gutierrez de Hermosillo, d 1697, md in Lagos in 1684 to Emerenciana de
Reynoso y Renteria. I really do recommend the *Retonos* series. While I
have come across some omissions (very few, given its scope), it is a wealth
of information.
Raquel Ruiz

Published by Armando – Sat, 2012-09-29 07:00 | Permalink

Comment

Rosa, because of a dispensa recently indexed at
www.guadalajaradispensas.comI reread your post. Since I descend from
Juan Lopez de Nava & Ines Lopez
Muniz twice I was happy to see you had posted the mtDNA haplogroup of Ines
Lopez Muniz. Did you do any further testing or find any matches? Did you
have anyone do a Y-DNA test?

Saludos,
Armando

2011/6/3

> Primos & Primas,
> I have updated my CORRECT maternal ancestry after reviewing marriage
> records. In addition, I would be interested in collaborating with those who
> have mtDNA Haplogroup H1:
>
> Jalostotitlan, San Miguel El Alto, Cerro Blanco & Tepatitlán de Morelos,
> Jalisco, Mexico
>
> 1. Grandparents: Secundino Gutierrez & Maria de Jesus Gutierrez
> 2. Great-Grandparents: Juan Gutierrez & Rita Gonzalez
> 3. GGrandparents: Felipe Gonzalez & Juliana Gomez
> 4. GGrandparents: Versulo Gomez & Balvina de la Torre
> 5. GGrandparents: Rafael De La Torre & Maria de la Merced Gonzalez
> 6. GGrandparents: Miguel Gonzalez de Hermosillo & Anna Josefa Romo de Vivar
> 7. GGrandparents: Sebastian Romo de Vivar & Francisca Pares/Perez Franco
> 8. GGrandparents: Alonso Perez Franco & Juana Casillas
> 9. GGrandparents: Francisco Casillas y Cabrera & Luisa Lozano Gonzales
> 10. GGrandparents: Jacinto Lozano Gonzalez & Juana Gonsales de Rubalcaba
> Rodas
> 11. GGrandparents: Fulgencio Gonzalez de Rubalcaba & Luisa de Rodas
> 12. GGrandparents: Hernando Villegas & Ines Lopez de Nava
> 13. GGrandparents: Juan Lopez de Nava & Ines Lopez Muniz
>
> Thank you to all my Nuestros Ranchos primos/primas for your continued
> assistance in researching our ancestors!
> Rosa - FamiliasJalos
>
>
> Primos y Primas,
> Hola. He actualizado mi ascendencia materna correcta después de revisar
> los registros de matrimonio. Además, estaría interesado en colaborar con
> ustedes que tienen ADNmt haplogrupo H1:
>
> Jalostotitlán, San Miguel El Alto, Cerro Blanco y Tepatitlán de Morelos,
> Jalisco, México
>
> 1. Abuelos: Secundino Gutiérrez y María de Jesús Gutiérrez
> 2. Bisabuelos: Juan Gutiérrez y Rita González
> 3. Bisabuelos: Felipe González y Juliana Gómez
> 4. Bisabuelos: Versulo Gómez y Balvina de la Torre
> 5. Bisabuelos: Rafael De La Torre y María de la Merced González
> 6. Bisabuelos: Miguel González de Hermosillo y Ana Josefa Romo de Vivar
> 7. Bisabuelos: Sebastián Romo de Vivar y Francisca Pares / Pérez Franco
> 8. Bisabuelos: Alonso Pérez Franco y Juana Casillas
> 9. Bisabuelos: Casillas y Francisco Cabrera y Luis Lozano González
> 10. Bisabuelos: Jacinto Lozano González y Juana Gonsales de Rubalcaba Rodas
> 11. Bisabuelos: Fulgencio González de Rubalcaba y Luisa de Rodas
> 12. Bisabuelos: Hernando Villegas y López Inés de Nava
> 13. Bisabuelos: Juan López de Nava y Muñiz López Inés
>
> ¡Gracias a todos mis primos/primas de Nuestros Ranchos para su continua
> asistencia en la investigación de nuestros antepasados!
> Rosa - FamiliasJalos
>
>
>
>

Comment

Primos Rosa y Armando,

I know all us with ancestors from Los Altos in Jalisco are related to each
other several times over, but I always find it enjoyable when a match is
identified. I also descend from Fulgencio Gonzalez de Rubalcaba & Luisa
Rodas by way of their daughter Beatriz Gonzalez de Rubalcaba y de Rodas:

1 Gpts Manuel Ruiz y Consuelo Veloz
2. GGpts Felipe Ruiz Rubalcaba y Apolonaria Lopez
3. 2GGpts Jose Francisco Ruiz y Maria Silvana Rubalcaba
4. 3GGpts Jose de la Trinidad Ruiz y Juana Neponcena Perez
5. 4GGpts Jose Ignacio Perez de la Mora y Maria Antonia Gonzalez de
Hermosillo
6. 5GGpts Nicolas Ysidro Perez y Maria Josefa de la Mora
7. 6GGpts Melchor Manuel Perez de Paredes y Juana Maria Martin del Campo
de Hermosillo
8. 7GGpts Agustin Perez de Paredes y Caltalina Gonzalez de Hermosillo
9. Melchor Gonzalez de Hermosillo y Francisca Renteria Mojica
10. Melchor Gonzalez de Hermosillo y Beatriz Gonzalez de Rubalcaba y de
Rodas
11. Fulgencio González de Rubalcaba y Luisa de Rodas

Raquel Ruiz

Genealogy Research

DNA Test

Published by resco16 –

I am curious if anyone has taken the DNA test to help with their genealogy search and what type of information it provided. I have hit a brick wall that seems as big as the Wall of China and kicking around the idea of trying DNA. Any info. would help!

Published by Armando – Fri, 2012-10-12 13:45 | Permalink

Comment

I found a 109 marker match. The only way you are going to find out if there
is a match to your DNA is by getting a test yourself.

On Tue, Oct 9, 2012 at 9:06 PM, wrote:

> I am curious if anyone has taken the DNA test to help with their genealogy
> search and what type of information it provided. I have hit a brick wall
> that seems as big as the Wall of China and kicking around the idea of
> trying DNA. Any info. would help!

Published by romero89 – Thu, 2012-10-11 06:45 | Permalink

Comment

My brother tested his YDNA for my genealogy research in 2005. My father was born in Tepatitlan and I've traced his family back to the early 1700's in Tepatitlan in the church records posted online at Familysearch.org. My father's YDNA Haplogroup is J2b1. I expect it will help confirm male members of his family. So far, I have not found any men with that Haplotype who trace their families back to Tepatitlan or have similar ancestry. Though I check with all the online databases I'm aware of, I have not found a match from anywhere -- yet. I believe that when more people test, I will find matches. Meanwhile, I continue with regular genealogy research. DNA can be used to confirm your paper research, but it will not do your research for you.

You can test your YDNA and to help confirm your paper research, which is the most basic test. You can also test with a FamilyFinder test and/or with a company like 23andMe and find out more about yourself. Both will help find matches. It's best to check the different companies and the type of tests they do and the results you can expect to get before jumping in. Many people have been disappointed because of their unrealistic expectations. When you know what you are looking for in a DNA test, you will know which one to choose. I've done several.

I didn't mention my mtDNA because my mother was born in the Dakota's of European ancestry. It is of no use for my research in Mexico. I have an accurate and long history of her family back to the first settlers in the United States and to Europe.

Linda Romero

Published by mistyriver123 – Thu, 2012-10-11 07:00 | Permalink

Comment

Linda.....what are the origins of  J2b1, and whom did you use for the testing.
Thank you.

________________________________
From: Linda
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org; resco16@sbcglobal.net
Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2012 6:40 AM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] DNA Test

My brother tested his YDNA for my genealogy research in 2005.  My father was born in Tepatitlan and I've traced his family back to the early 1700's in Tepatitlan in the church records posted online at Familysearch.org.  My father's YDNA Haplogroup is J2b1.  I expect it will help confirm male members of his family.  So far, I have not found any men with that Haplotype who trace their families back to Tepatitlan or have similar ancestry.    Though I check with all the online databases I'm aware of, I have not found a match from anywhere -- yet.  I believe that when more people test, I will find matches.  Meanwhile, I continue with regular genealogy research.  DNA can be used to confirm your paper research, but it will not do your research for you.

You can test your YDNA and to help confirm your paper research, which is the most basic test.  You can also test with a FamilyFinder test and/or with a company like 23andMe and find out more about yourself. Both will help find matches.  It's best to check the different companies and the type of tests they do and the results you can expect to get before jumping in.  Many people have been disappointed because of their unrealistic expectations.  When you know what you are looking for in a DNA test, you will know which one to choose.  I've done several.

I didn't mention my mtDNA because my mother was born in the Dakota's of European ancestry.  It is of no use for my research in Mexico.  I have an accurate and long history of her family back to the first settlers in the United States and to Europe.

Linda Romero

Published by mistyriver123 – Thu, 2012-10-11 07:00 | Permalink

Comment

Linda.....what are the origins of  J2b1, and whom did you use for the testing.
Thank you.

________________________________
From: Linda
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org; resco16@sbcglobal.net
Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2012 6:40 AM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] DNA Test

My brother tested his YDNA for my genealogy research in 2005.  My father was born in Tepatitlan and I've traced his family back to the early 1700's in Tepatitlan in the church records posted online at Familysearch.org.  My father's YDNA Haplogroup is J2b1.  I expect it will help confirm male members of his family.  So far, I have not found any men with that Haplotype who trace their families back to Tepatitlan or have similar ancestry.    Though I check with all the online databases I'm aware of, I have not found a match from anywhere -- yet.  I believe that when more people test, I will find matches.  Meanwhile, I continue with regular genealogy research.  DNA can be used to confirm your paper research, but it will not do your research for you.

You can test your YDNA and to help confirm your paper research, which is the most basic test.  You can also test with a FamilyFinder test and/or with a company like 23andMe and find out more about yourself. Both will help find matches.  It's best to check the different companies and the type of tests they do and the results you can expect to get before jumping in.  Many people have been disappointed because of their unrealistic expectations.  When you know what you are looking for in a DNA test, you will know which one to choose.  I've done several.

I didn't mention my mtDNA because my mother was born in the Dakota's of European ancestry.  It is of no use for my research in Mexico.  I have an accurate and long history of her family back to the first settlers in the United States and to Europe.

Linda Romero

Published by meef98367 – Thu, 2012-10-11 13:00 | Permalink

Comment

I had my husband test his DNA though FamilyDNA, and he is haplogroup T1. His ancestors were from Jalisco for many generations going back as far as I can trace them, to the late 1600s. T1 is very rare we were told--mesopotamian. We have not found a match to anyone except to one man in Texas. I have had no response from him. I guess no males with ancestors in Jalisco in this group don't have that haplogroup.

I guess my mtDNA is of no use to Mexico (or is it?). I am haplogroup C, Native American Pre-Colombian, and my female line is Pueblo Indian (Piro/Manso/Tewa) all from New Mexico.

Emilie
Port Orchard, WA

> From: romero89@earthlink.net
> Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2012 08:40:21 -0500
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org; resco16@sbcglobal.net
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] DNA Test
>
> My brother tested his YDNA for my genealogy research in 2005. My father was born in Tepatitlan and I've traced his family back to the early 1700's in Tepatitlan in the church records posted online at Familysearch.org. My father's YDNA Haplogroup is J2b1. I expect it will help confirm male members of his family. So far, I have not found any men with that Haplotype who trace their families back to Tepatitlan or have similar ancestry. Though I check with all the online databases I'm aware of, I have not found a match from anywhere -- yet. I believe that when more people test, I will find matches. Meanwhile, I continue with regular genealogy research. DNA can be used to confirm your paper research, but it will not do your research for you.
>
> You can test your YDNA and to help confirm your paper research, which is the most basic test. You can also test with a FamilyFinder test and/or with a company like 23andMe and find out more about yourself. Both will help find matches. It's best to check the different companies and the type of tests they do and the results you can expect to get before jumping in. Many people have been disappointed because of their unrealistic expectations. When you know what you are looking for in a DNA test, you will know which one to choose. I've done several.
>
> I didn't mention my mtDNA because my mother was born in the Dakota's of European ancestry. It is of no use for my research in Mexico. I have an accurate and long history of her family back to the first settlers in the United States and to Europe.
>
> Linda Romero

Published by Edward Serros – Thu, 2012-10-11 17:27 | Permalink

Comment

My Felgueres Y-DNA ancestral line is T1, the old K2. The original Felgueres, Domingo Antonio Felgueres, came to Mezquitic, Jalisco as Lieutenant Governor of that area in 1790. Domingo Antonio was born in Villaviciosa, Asturias and baptized in the Iglesia San Salvador de Fuentes.

There is another Nuestros Ranchos member (Rodriguez, I believe) who is T1 also.

Edward Serros

Comment

You can see the message at http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/21013

More specifically, I will re-post it again, see below.

DNA Test - Emilie
Submitted by Edward Serros on Thu, 2012-10-11 20:27.

My Felgueres Y-DNA ancestral line is T1, the old K2. The original Felgueres, Domingo Antonio Felgueres, came to Mezquitic, Jalisco as Lieutenant Governor of that area in 1790. Domingo Antonio was born in Villaviciosa, Asturias and baptized in the Iglesia San Salvador de Fuentes.

There is another Nuestros Ranchos member (Rodriguez, I believe) who is T1 also.

Edward Serros

Comment

Hi Emilie,

I am also T1 and so are the Alcalá de Mendoza families from Los Altos, at
least. I've found and contacted many people that are from our same group
from all around the world, from Colombia, Panamá, Brazil, Australia, South
Africa, Turkey, Spain, Italy, and some more.

May I ask what your husband's last name is? If you want we can share our
results and compare them.

Thanks,

Rick

Comment

Hello Rick,

Thanks for your response. My husband's surname is Garcia, which has led me to a brick wall.

The farthest back I have gotten on his line is his gggg-grandfather Joseph Cayetano Garcia (espanol) born May 211, 1738 in Santa Barbara, Aguascalientes, and his second wife Anacleta Calzada (yndia) born on July 12, 1772 in San Juan de Los Lagos. Their son Jose Maria Garcia (espanol), was born Dec 12, 1796 on the Mariquita Hacienda in Jalisco. He married Maria Gregoria Morones, who was born on May 23, 1792 in Encarnacion de Diaz. Jose Maria and Gregoria had a son Estanislado de Jesus Garcia, born in 1825 in Enc; he married Antonia Ornelas, born March 1834 in Enc. Their son Simon was born in Enc on Oct 28 1864. He married Marciana Cervantes who was born in Enc on Oct 20, 1869. Their son Primitivo Garcia was born on June 10, 1890 in Enc and he married Maria Hinojosa de Guterrez who was born on June 6, 1893 in Zacatecas. Their son Enrique is my husband's father and he was born Sept 16, 1909 in El Paso Texas.

Joeph Cayetano Garcia and Anacleta Calzada were married on Oct 5, 1791 in Encarnacion de Diaz, and their marriage record states that his father was a Nicolas Garcia married to Maria de San Juan (Belasco? Trillo?) Here is where I am stuck. There were so many Nicolas Garcia married to Maria San Juan that I followed a wrong lead and ended up with a couple in an indian village that were not his parents after all. It looks like the Maria Belasco Trillo could be his mother, but I can't find a records to prove that.

The only results FamilyDNA sent was that he is haplogroup T1 with a short explanation of what that indicated. When I got my mtDNA results, I got a list of 5-digit numbers with a letter at the end for "mutations". I don't see that under his kit number. Is that because his test was for a Y-12 test, and mine was for an mtDNA?

They did say he matched one person in Texas by the surname of Camacho whose ancestor was a Silva. I e-mailed that person for more info and got no answer.

It seems that the names are more Portuguese than Spanish?

Emilie

> From: rodriguezdefrias@gmail.com
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2012 01:23:07 -0500
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] DNA Test - Emilie
>
> Hi Emilie,
>
> I am also T1 and so are the Alcalá de Mendoza families from Los Altos, at
> least. I've found and contacted many people that are from our same group
> from all around the world, from Colombia, Panamá, Brazil, Australia, South
> Africa, Turkey, Spain, Italy, and some more.
>
> May I ask what your husband's last name is? If you want we can share our
> results and compare them.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Rick
>

Comment

Hi Emilie,

I believe this is the Cayetano Garcia you're looking for:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NTV3-LBB

-----Mensaje original-----
De: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] En nombre de Emilie
Garcia
Enviado el: Saturday, October 13, 2012 8:20 PM
Para: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Asunto: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] DNA Test - Emilie

Hello Rick,

Thanks for your response. My husband's surname is Garcia, which has led me
to a brick wall.

The farthest back I have gotten on his line is his gggg-grandfather Joseph
Cayetano Garcia (espanol) born May 211, 1738 in Santa Barbara,
Aguascalientes, and his second wife Anacleta Calzada (yndia) born on July
12, 1772 in San Juan de Los Lagos. Their son Jose Maria Garcia (espanol),
was born Dec 12, 1796 on the Mariquita Hacienda in Jalisco. He married
Maria Gregoria Morones, who was born on May 23, 1792 in Encarnacion de Diaz.
Jose Maria and Gregoria had a son Estanislado de Jesus Garcia, born in 1825
in Enc; he married Antonia Ornelas, born March 1834 in Enc. Their son Simon
was born in Enc on Oct 28 1864. He married Marciana Cervantes who was born
in Enc on Oct 20, 1869. Their son Primitivo Garcia was born on June 10,
1890 in Enc and he married Maria Hinojosa de Guterrez who was born on June
6, 1893 in Zacatecas. Their son Enrique is my husband's father and he was
born Sept 16, 1909 in El Paso Texas.

Joeph Cayetano Garcia and Anacleta Calzada were married on Oct 5, 1791 in
Encarnacion de Diaz, and their marriage record states that his father was a
Nicolas Garcia married to Maria de San Juan (Belasco? Trillo?) Here is
where I am stuck. There were so many Nicolas Garcia married to Maria San
Juan that I followed a wrong lead and ended up with a couple in an indian
village that were not his parents after all. It looks like the Maria
Belasco Trillo could be his mother, but I can't find a records to prove
that.

The only results FamilyDNA sent was that he is haplogroup T1 with a short
explanation of what that indicated. When I got my mtDNA results, I got a
list of 5-digit numbers with a letter at the end for "mutations". I don't
see that under his kit number. Is that because his test was for a Y-12
test, and mine was for an mtDNA?

They did say he matched one person in Texas by the surname of Camacho whose
ancestor was a Silva. I e-mailed that person for more info and got no
answer.

It seems that the names are more Portuguese than Spanish?

Emilie

> From: rodriguezdefrias@gmail.com
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2012 01:23:07 -0500
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] DNA Test - Emilie
>
> Hi Emilie,
>
> I am also T1 and so are the Alcalá de Mendoza families from Los Altos,
> at least. I've found and contacted many people that are from our same
> group from all around the world, from Colombia, Panamá, Brazil,
> Australia, South Africa, Turkey, Spain, Italy, and some more.
>
> May I ask what your husband's last name is? If you want we can share
> our results and compare them.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Rick
>

Comment

Yes, thank you, Rick,

So it is Pedro Cayetano and not Joseph Cayetano. I had found a Joseph Garcia also born in 1738 whose parents were Nicolas Garzia and Maria Quiteria, but they were "indio" from "Puruano" and I didn't that that was the right one since everybody else was "espanol".

Emilie

> From: rodriguezdefrias@gmail.com
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2012 17:03:33 -0500
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] DNA Test - Emilie
>
> Hi Emilie,
>
> I believe this is the Cayetano Garcia you're looking for:
> https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NTV3-LBB
>
>
> -----Mensaje original-----
> De: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> [mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] En nombre de Emilie
> Garcia
> Enviado el: Saturday, October 13, 2012 8:20 PM
> Para: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Asunto: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] DNA Test - Emilie
>
>
> Hello Rick,
>
> Thanks for your response. My husband's surname is Garcia, which has led me
> to a brick wall.
>
> The farthest back I have gotten on his line is his gggg-grandfather Joseph
> Cayetano Garcia (espanol) born May 211, 1738 in Santa Barbara,
> Aguascalientes, and his second wife Anacleta Calzada (yndia) born on July
> 12, 1772 in San Juan de Los Lagos. Their son Jose Maria Garcia (espanol),
> was born Dec 12, 1796 on the Mariquita Hacienda in Jalisco. He married
> Maria Gregoria Morones, who was born on May 23, 1792 in Encarnacion de Diaz.
> Jose Maria and Gregoria had a son Estanislado de Jesus Garcia, born in 1825
> in Enc; he married Antonia Ornelas, born March 1834 in Enc. Their son Simon
> was born in Enc on Oct 28 1864. He married Marciana Cervantes who was born
> in Enc on Oct 20, 1869. Their son Primitivo Garcia was born on June 10,
> 1890 in Enc and he married Maria Hinojosa de Guterrez who was born on June
> 6, 1893 in Zacatecas. Their son Enrique is my husband's father and he was
> born Sept 16, 1909 in El Paso Texas.
>
> Joeph Cayetano Garcia and Anacleta Calzada were married on Oct 5, 1791 in
> Encarnacion de Diaz, and their marriage record states that his father was a
> Nicolas Garcia married to Maria de San Juan (Belasco? Trillo?) Here is
> where I am stuck. There were so many Nicolas Garcia married to Maria San
> Juan that I followed a wrong lead and ended up with a couple in an indian
> village that were not his parents after all. It looks like the Maria
> Belasco Trillo could be his mother, but I can't find a records to prove
> that.
>
> The only results FamilyDNA sent was that he is haplogroup T1 with a short
> explanation of what that indicated. When I got my mtDNA results, I got a
> list of 5-digit numbers with a letter at the end for "mutations". I don't
> see that under his kit number. Is that because his test was for a Y-12
> test, and mine was for an mtDNA?
>
> They did say he matched one person in Texas by the surname of Camacho whose
> ancestor was a Silva. I e-mailed that person for more info and got no
> answer.
>
> It seems that the names are more Portuguese than Spanish?
>
> Emilie
>
>
>
> > From: rodriguezdefrias@gmail.com
> > To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> > Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2012 01:23:07 -0500
> > Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] DNA Test - Emilie
> >
> > Hi Emilie,
> >
> > I am also T1 and so are the Alcalá de Mendoza families from Los Altos,
> > at least. I've found and contacted many people that are from our same
> > group from all around the world, from Colombia, Panamá, Brazil,
> > Australia, South Africa, Turkey, Spain, Italy, and some more.
> >
> > May I ask what your husband's last name is? If you want we can share
> > our results and compare them.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Rick
> >
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- Nuestros Ranchos Research
> > Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
>

Comment

Thanks Ed,

I will tell my husband. He will be pleased to know there are other T1s from Jalisco.

Emilie

> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: ed@serros.net
> Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2012 21:46:30 -0700
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] DNA Test - Emilie
>
> You can see the message at http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/21013
>
>
>
> More specifically, I will re-post it again, see below.
>
>
> DNA Test - Emilie
> Submitted by Edward Serros on Thu, 2012-10-11 20:27.
>
>
>
> My Felgueres Y-DNA ancestral line is T1, the old K2. The original Felgueres, Domingo Antonio Felgueres, came to Mezquitic, Jalisco as Lieutenant Governor of that area in 1790. Domingo Antonio was born in Villaviciosa, Asturias and baptized in the Iglesia San Salvador de Fuentes.
>
> There is another Nuestros Ranchos member (Rodriguez, I believe) who is T1 also.
>
> Edward Serros
>
>
>
>

Genealogy Research

marriage record/acta de matrimonio

Published by mazochoa –

Hello,

In translating a marriage record I found the status reads "Viudo"-widowed for the groom but her status reads " estado Donea"??? for the bride... Does anyone know what this may indicate?

Here's the link if that helps:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-11601-138089-5?cc=1410092&…

Thanks in advance for the help.
MAZO

Hola,

Al traducir un acta de matrimonio me pareció que el estado es "Viudo", viudo para el novio, pero el estado es "estado Donea"?? para la novia ... ¿Alguien sabe lo que esto puede indicar?

Aquí está el enlace si eso ayuda:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-11601-138089-5?cc=1410092&…

Gracias de antemano por la ayuda.
MAZO

Published by Angelina Markle – Sun, 2012-10-14 10:15 | Permalink

Comment

Hello Mazo,

I reviewed the image in question ... The top left is the declaration of the
bride and it states that she is a resident (vecina) not widow (viuda).
"estado Donca" is an abbrevation for Doncella which is saying she was never
married.

-Angelina-

-----Original Message-----
From: ochoafam4@rocketmail.com
Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2012 9:50 AM
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] marriage record/acta de matrimonio

Hello,

In translating a marriage record I found the status reads "Viudo"-widowed
for the groom but her status reads " estado Donea"??? for the bride... Does
anyone know what this may indicate?

Here's the link if that helps:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-11601-138089-5?cc=1410092&…

Thanks in advance for the help.
MAZO

Hola,

Al traducir un acta de matrimonio me pareció que el estado es "Viudo", viudo
para el novio, pero el estado es "estado Donea"?? para la novia ... ¿Alguien
sabe lo que esto puede indicar?

Aquí está el enlace si eso ayuda:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-11601-138089-5?cc=1410092&…

Gracias de antemano por la ayuda.
MAZO

Comment

La palabra es doncella, que quiere decir que es una joven soltera.

> From: angelina@markleweb.com
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2012 10:01:19 -0700
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] marriage record/acta de matrimonio
>
> Hello Mazo,
>
> I reviewed the image in question ... The top left is the declaration of the
> bride and it states that she is a resident (vecina) not widow (viuda).
> "estado Donca" is an abbrevation for Doncella which is saying she was never
> married.
>
> -Angelina-
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ochoafam4@rocketmail.com
> Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2012 9:50 AM
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] marriage record/acta de matrimonio
>
> Hello,
>
> In translating a marriage record I found the status reads "Viudo"-widowed
> for the groom but her status reads " estado Donea"??? for the bride... Does
> anyone know what this may indicate?
>
> Here's the link if that helps:
> https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-11601-138089-5?cc=1410092&…
>
>
> Thanks in advance for the help.
> MAZO
>
> Hola,
>
> Al traducir un acta de matrimonio me pareció que el estado es "Viudo", viudo
> para el novio, pero el estado es "estado Donea"?? para la novia ... ¿Alguien
> sabe lo que esto puede indicar?
>
> Aquí está el enlace si eso ayuda:
> https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-11601-138089-5?cc=1410092&…
>
>
> Gracias de antemano por la ayuda.
> MAZO

Published by anaareluna – Sun, 2012-10-14 10:15 | Permalink

Comment

it is an abreviation for doncella (never married)
 
Anna Smith

From: "ochoafam4@rocketmail.com"
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2012 9:50 AM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] marriage record/acta de matrimonio

Hello,

In translating a marriage record I found the status reads "Viudo"-widowed for the groom but her status reads " estado Donea"??? for the bride... Does anyone know what this may indicate?

Here's the link if that helps:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-11601-138089-5?cc=1410092&…

Thanks in advance for the help.
MAZO

Hola,

Al traducir un acta de matrimonio me pareció que el estado es "Viudo", viudo para el novio, pero el estado es "estado Donea"?? para la novia ... ¿Alguien sabe lo que esto puede indicar?

Aquí está el enlace si eso ayuda:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-11601-138089-5?cc=1410092&…

Gracias de antemano por la ayuda.
MAZO

Genealogy Research

Once again I need a little help reading a record

Published by juanitahenniger –

This record is Jose Claro Sandate Ramirez baptized Aug 15 1866. I'm trying to figure out if it says Claro's birth date. I see that his Parents are Jose Tiofilo Sandate and Maria Ebarista Ramierz, with maternal grandparents Jose Francisco Ramierz and Maria ?? is this Tomas or Juana Llamas. Is it also listing the paternal grandparents as Pable Sandate and Maria Josefa Sandate. What I'm wonder is if is also listing great grandparents? There seems to be additional names listed toward the end of the document, but I can't make them out. I'd be grateful if someone help me out with the language barrier again. I'm definitely going to sign up for more Spanish classes in the Spring.

Thanks again.

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1942-20131-54430-52?cc=1860864…

The record is last entry on page on the right. Thanks again.

Published by victorianonavarro (not verified) – Fri, 2012-10-12 21:55 | Permalink

Comment

It also says the child was 3 days old (infante de tres días). The record of dated August 15, so depending on how they counted, he could have been born on the 12th or the 13th. The feast of Saint Clare of Assisi is celebrated on August 11, but before the 1960's it was celebrated on August 12th.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clare_of_Assisi

However, children not always got the name of the saint whose feast was celebrated the day they were born:
The previous record is of a girl named Hipólita, 3 days old, baptized on the 14th, and the feast of St. Hippolytus falls on the 13th (and the girl was born on the 11th or 12th). The one before is of a boy named José Tiburcio, 5 days old, baptized on the 15th, and the feast of St. Tiburtius was on the 11th (the boy was born on the 10th or 11th).

The names at the end belong to the godparents (padrinos). They were Jose Cesilio Rodrigues and Maria ¿____? Arriaga.

Best,
Victoriano Navarro

Comment

Thank you again. This is very helpful. I knew because I'm Catholic that children are given Saints names, but had no idea it was based on feast that might have been held on their birth.

Thank you so much for giving of your time.

Juanita Henniger

Published by dpdelgadol – Fri, 2012-10-12 21:30 | Permalink

Comment

Juanita,

The names at the end of the records are the godparents. Their names are: Jose Cecilio Rodrigues and Maria Catarina Arriaga.

David in Albany, CA

On Fri 12/10/12 7:47 PM , juanitahenniger@msn.com sent:
> This record is Jose Claro Sandate Ramirez baptized Aug 15 1866. I'm trying
> to figure out if it says Claro's birth date. I see that his Parents are
> Jose Tiofilo Sandate and Maria Ebarista Ramierz, with maternal grandparents
> Jose Francisco Ramierz and Maria ?? is this Tomas or Juana Llamas. Is it
> also listing the paternal grandparents as Pable Sandate and Maria Josefa
> Sandate. What I'm wonder is if is also listing great grandparents? There
> seems to be additional names listed toward the end of the document, but I
> can't make them out. I'd be grateful if someone help me out with the
> language barrier again. I'm definitely going to sign up for more Spanish
> classes in the Spring.
> Thanks again.
>
> https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1942-20131-54430-52?cc
> =1860864&wc=11680471
> The record is last entry on page on the right. Thanks again.

Published by andrews90032 – Fri, 2012-10-12 20:30 | Permalink

Comment

Hello,

What I read was that Jose Claro parents are Jose Trofilo Sandate and Maria Ebarsita Ramires. His paternal grandparents are Jose Paulo Sandate and Maria Josefa Sausedo, his maternal grandparents were Jose Francisco Ramires and Maria Tomasa Llamas.

Thats what it looked like to me, hope this helps.

Thanks,
Barbara
On Oct 12, 2012, at 7:47 PM, juanitahenniger@msn.com wrote:

> This record is Jose Claro Sandate Ramirez baptized Aug 15 1866. I'm trying to figure out if it says Claro's birth date. I see that his Parents are Jose Tiofilo Sandate and Maria Ebarista Ramierz, with maternal grandparents Jose Francisco Ramierz and Maria ?? is this Tomas or Juana Llamas. Is it also listing the paternal grandparents as Pable Sandate and Maria Josefa Sandate. What I'm wonder is if is also listing great grandparents? There seems to be additional names listed toward the end of the document, but I can't make them out. I'd be grateful if someone help me out with the language barrier again. I'm definitely going to sign up for more Spanish classes in the Spring.
>
> Thanks again.
>
> https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1942-20131-54430-52?cc=1860864…
>
> The record is last entry on page on the right. Thanks again.

Comment

Barbara,

Thank you for clarifying this information. It can quite frustrating reading these records when my Spanish is so limited. I can tell you how much I appreciate how helpful everyone has been. It makes researching so much more interesting. Thanks again.

Juanita Henniger

Genealogy Research

YDNA J2b1

Published by romero89 –

J2b1 m205 seems to be very present in the Balkans, more particularly in Albania, in the northeastern of Greece, but in south Italy, Spain and France too ( and not exclusively in the south of the country) according the data of FTDNA. It is found around the Mediterranean.

It is found in Tepatitlan as far back as the early 1700's.

Linda

Published by Rodriguez de Frias – Fri, 2012-10-12 20:30 | Permalink

Comment

Hi Linda, J2a1 and J2a1b have been present in Los Altos through several
lineages since the late 1500's

Rick

-----Mensaje original-----
De: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] En nombre de Linda
Enviado el: Friday, October 12, 2012 7:43 AM
Para: Santos Luna; research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org;
research@nuestrosranchos.org
Asunto: [Nuestros Ranchos] YDNA J2b1

J2b1 m205 seems to be very present in the Balkans, more particularly in
Albania, in the northeastern of Greece, but in south Italy, Spain and France
too ( and not exclusively in the south of the country) according the data of
FTDNA. It is found around the Mediterranean.

It is found in Tepatitlan as far back as the early 1700's.

Linda

Published by romero89 – Fri, 2012-10-12 05:45 | Permalink

Comment

J2b1 m205 seems to be very present in the Balkans, more particularly in Albania, in the northeastern of Greece, but in south Italy, Spain and France too ( and not exclusively in the south of the country) according the data of FTDNA. It is found around the Mediterranean.

It is found in Tepatitlan as far back as the early 1700's.

Linda

Genealogy Research

Llamas mystery

Published by ArturoG –

Hello,
I'm trying to trace the maternal line of Juana Llamas Venegas, b ~1730, either in Tepechitlan or Jalpa. There are two family trees that show her father and grandfather being Simon Llamas and Mateo Llamas (familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18427-23966-36?cc=1874591&wc=12512782), and her mother and grandmother being Ana Banegas (Venegas) and Felipa Banegas (familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18427-25540-38?cc=1874591&wc=12512782).

Simon Llamas married for the second time in 1738, to Getrudis Banuelos, where it's mentioned that his first wife was Feliciana Getrudis Herrera (familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-15261-32055-49?cc=1410092&wc=6839126). A Pedigree Resource File from FHC convinced me the two family trees identify the same Simon referenced in these weddings: https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.2.1/SYVJ-HW3.

Has anyone studying this Llama line come across the Banegas family? I'm guessing that Juana Llamas is the illegitimate child of Simon and Ana, but don't want to rule out other possibilities (such as that FeliciANA Herrera and ANA Banegas) are the same person).

Thanks
Arturo

Published by ArturoG – Fri, 2012-10-12 13:53 | Permalink

Comment

I forgot to add that the Maternal line of Felipa & Catarina Banegas (Venegas) extends to Agustina Figueroa (married to Marcos Banegas).

Genealogy Research

Research Digest, Vol 81, Issue 3

Published by estebanpedroza –

Thank you Armado,
The Santiago De Pedroza born in the 1700's, son of Marcos de Pedroza are in my family tree. I have one other ancestor named Santiago De Pedroza (popular name in my family tree) born in 1995, married to Juana Bautista De Alba Y Retamosa that I've been having a difficult time finding his parents. I found Juana's parents but not his, almost as if his presence in the country was not recorded. Javier Sanchis Ruiz also have this Santiago in his family tree but no reference to his parents. do you have any additional records? Thank you for your help.
Esteban Pedroza

Genealogy Research

De Anda y Marquez

Published by chilerey54 –

Hola Everyone, I have a Jose Alejandro de Anda married to Maria Joaquina Munoz--children :
1) Maria Ygnacia Agapita de Anda born 04,Oct. 1794 San Juan de los Lagos-married to Sixto Munoz-on 06 Aug. 1815 San Juan de Los Lagos (whom are my Ancestors)
2) Jose Maria Theodoro de Anda born Dec. 11, 1789 San Juan de los Lagos---BAUTISMOS-SAN JUAN DE LOS LAGOS-1784--1793 IMAGE # 301.
Los padrinos of Jose Maria Theodoro de Anda are Jose Miguel Munoz and Maria Antonia Marquez.
I was wondering if Maria Joaquina Munoz could be Maria Joaquina de SJ Munoz daughter of Jose Miguel Munoz de Nava and Maria Antonia Marquez.
Sorry If I made the question too long.
Thank you for your time
Ronnie Reynoso

Published by RaquelRuiz – Tue, 2012-10-09 19:15 | Permalink

Comment

In *Retonos de Espana en la Nueva Galicia*, Tomo VI, Vol 1, pg 415, Mariano
Gonzalez-Leal lists Dona Maria Joaquina de SJ Munoz, dtr of Don Joseph
Miguel Munoz de Nava y Gomez-Hurtado de Mendoza and Maria Antonia Marquez y
Lomeli, bap 9 Apr, 1771 in San Miguel el Alto, md 23 Feb 1789 to Joseph
Alexandro de Anda y Moreno, son of Don Anastasio and Dona Maria de San
Joseph. I hope this is helpful.
Raquel Ruiz

Comment

Thank you very much
Ronnie Reynoso

> Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2012 22:00:40 -0400
> From: ruiz.raquel061@gmail.com
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] De Anda y Marquez
>
> In *Retonos de Espana en la Nueva Galicia*, Tomo VI, Vol 1, pg 415, Mariano
> Gonzalez-Leal lists Dona Maria Joaquina de SJ Munoz, dtr of Don Joseph
> Miguel Munoz de Nava y Gomez-Hurtado de Mendoza and Maria Antonia Marquez y
> Lomeli, bap 9 Apr, 1771 in San Miguel el Alto, md 23 Feb 1789 to Joseph
> Alexandro de Anda y Moreno, son of Don Anastasio and Dona Maria de San
> Joseph. I hope this is helpful.
> Raquel Ruiz

Genealogy Research

Research Digest, Vol 81, Issue 5

Published by campezina –

Juanita,

Id. is the word in Latin for something that has been mentioned previously; the same. [Latin, from id, it; see i- in Indo-European roots.] idem Latin [ˈaɪdɛm ˈɪdɛm]. (Literary & Literary ...

Campezina

____________________________________________________________
Woman is 57 But Looks 27
Mom publishes simple facelift trick that angered doctors...
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/5073b032eafae30325aecst02vuc

Genealogy Research

Catalago del Archivo del Registro Publico de la Propiedad de Guadalajara

Published by MariaCortez –

I borrowed the book: Catálogo del archivo del Registro Público de la
Propiedad de Guadalajara : libros, de hipotecas 1566-1820 / by David J.
Robinson & Linda Greenow from the California State Library. This book
is a Catalog
and indexes of the mortgage records of the Archive of the Public Register
of Property of Gualalajara. The register was established at the request of
don Manuel de Mena, escribano publico mayor del Cabildo de Guadalajara
(Public Scribe) in March 1721. The Notary was aware of the many fraudulent
real estate transactions and he wanted to establish this register to combat
fraud. The Spanish Crown agreed and the register was established. Some
transactions recorded also include the sale/purchase of mines, dowry
letters, etc.****

** **

There are indexes in the back of the book by name(s) and places that makes
it easy to look up the name of an ancestor or the sale of a specific
Hacienda, rancho, etc. I have been able to find the ranchos and haciendas
where some of my ancestors lived and I was able to learn who bought and
sold the rancho or hacienda along with the date of the transaction. For
example, I looked up Hacienda del Carrizo where my de la Mora ancestors
lived, and found this entry: #977, Mo/Year 6.1737, Nombre del Principal: de
la Mora, Hurtado, Josef, Propiedades: Cuquio: H. El Carrizo, L. de
Mesticacan; H. Sitio los Serritos; Guad: C.**

** **

My question is, where can I find the actual documents? Would these
documents be part of the Tierras y Propiedades or some other collection of
documents?****

** **

If anyone would like me to do a lookup for them please let me know.

Maria Cortez

Published by October Fly (not verified) – Sat, 2012-09-22 13:29 | Permalink

Comment

Hi, Would you be willing to look up surnames in the book you borrowed?

Published by robmartinez – Sat, 2012-09-22 10:06 | Permalink

Comment

Robert Martinez

The book should have the source in the pages somewhere, listing the archive, city location, and collection. The title gives a lot of information, it seems to be something that could be found in the civil archives in Guadalajara, Mexico.

Rob

History, Culture and General Discussion

Looking for records for Piedras Negras, Choahuila 1903 -

Published by juanitahenniger –

These records seem to be missing on family search site. Does anyone know where I might find these records? Also, is there a Piedras Negras, Aguascalientes?

Thanks,

Juanita

Comment

Hi Juanita,
I found online a map of Aguascalientes which shows towns and Haciendas.
There is a town named Piedras Negras, going West from Aguascalientes on Route 70 and then taking one of the short yellow roads going North.
http://www.aguascalientes.gob.mx/estado/mapaedo.htm

The homepage is the official one for the State maps:
http://www.aguascalientes.gob.mx/estado/mapas.aspx

Best,

Victoriano Navarro

Comment

Oh, sounds interesting. My grandmother always said she was born in Piedras Negras, Aguascalientes, but since I could only find Piedras Negras in Coahuila I assumed that she was mistaken about the state. This gives me a lead. I'm off to check to see what parishes are near this new find. Thank you so much Victoriano! This means alot.

Juanita Henniger

Published by gpf13 – Sun, 2012-10-07 22:32 | Permalink

Comment

The Coahuila church records are grouped in "Mexico Catholic Church Records" with several other states. The civil records are separately listed as their own heading.

From the Family History Library catalog, when you do a "place search" for Piedras Negras, and you follow the links to the page that lists all the filmed church records for this town, there will be a link in red that will take you to the records.

In either case, you get to the same place.

George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA

Comment

Hi George,

I've tried all that, but what I'm finding is that the baptismal records for Piedras Negras only go up to 1902. There doesn't seem to be any other links that will get me to 1903. I'm wondering if baptisms were not done in Nuestra Señora de Guadalupe (Piedras Negras, Coahuila)after 1902 or if they are missing. I didn't see on the site where they would be microfilmed. So, I guess I'm a little bit lost. Any ideas where else I might look? Thanks

Juanita Henniger

Comment

Juanita

I misinterpreted the intent of your question.

There are a number of reasons that there are such limited church records for Piedras Negras. I did some searching, and I have a possible explanation. From the website of the city, under "Historia" (http://www.piedrasnegras.gob.mx/2010/06/historia/) it says:

El 2 de septiembre de 1932, la ciudad sufre su 2ª gran inundación con grandes pérdidas materiales, al desbordarse el Río Bravo. Evento que se repitió el 28 de junio de 1954, con la más grande inundación que ocasionó graves daños que no pudieron ser cuantificados, que solo reconoció la pérdida de 60 vidas, aunque se manejaron cifras superiores.

I do not what parts of the city were affected, but this suggests a significant part.

I found another website, concerning major and catastrophic storms in Texas (http://pubs.usgs.gov/of/2003/ofr03-193/cd_files/USGS_Storms/patton.htm):

1932 - Sept 1, 1932 - Flooding was disastrous covering most of Piedras Negras and Eagle Pass - 5 ft over the deck of the International Bridge - In Laredo, the International Bridge deck was flooded by 6 ft - nearly 200 city blocks in Laredo flooded and about half the business district in Nuevo Laredo was underwater.

In 1954, Hurricane Alice made landfall near Brownsville, Texas. From the same website:

The crest was at 5:00 AM 6/29 at 53.51 ft, 964,000 cfs downstream at Eagle Pass. Flow was to the heads of parking meters in downtown Eagle Pass, and the International Bridge was destroyed as flow was near 10 ft over the floor - The Southern Pacific railway bridge over the river was destroyed, and much of Piedras Negras on the Mexican side was underwater with a tragically high number of drownings. The river was 3 mi wide at Eagle Pass; Eagle Pass and Piedras Negras line the river.

Neither one of these events is encouraging for the survival of archives.

George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA

Comment

Thank you George. I was familiar with 1954 flood as my great grandfather on my mother's paternal side was born in Brownsville and his records were lost during the flood. I never thought the same flood would end up affecting my mothers maternal side. Looks like my job just got tougher. My one hope is that my Great Grandmother was not from Aguascalientes but from another state nearby because from my understanding all weddings occurred in the brides hometown. Thanks for your help and time spend researching I really appreciate it.

Genealogy Research
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