-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Somos Primos April 2009, 112th Issue Online 3
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 01:30:26 EDT
From: MIMILOZANO@aol.com
To: MIMILOZANO@aol.com
Click here: Somos Primos
Funny, I dont hear the long Peep sound like in television.. : )
--- On Mon, 3/30/09, arturoramos wrote:
From: arturoramos
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Another test
I got all your tests.
Emilie
----- Original Message -----
From: Robert Ramirez
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 5:31 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Another test
Funny, I dont hear the long Peep sound like in television.. : )
--- On Mon, 3/30/09, arturoramos > wrote:
From: arturoramos >
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Another test
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Monday, March 30, 2009, 6:02 PM
This is another test
Esta es otra prueba
Tengo magníficas noticias: Arturo ha determinado que el sitio de NR
necesita reconstruirse y ha emprendido el tremendo proyecto de llevarlo
a cabo. Para lo cual, NR estará fuera de servicio el viernes 3 de abril
Este mensaje es solamente una prueba.
This message is only a test.
Sunday, March 29, 2009
With the help of Eduardo giving me the dates and Microfilm numbers, I was able to find the following:
12 Feb 1748 (The date was not 11)
Jph Maria, Yndio de los Adobes, son of Jph. Antonio ARANDA y Mariana RAMIRES Godparents were Calletano ARIATA (Could not tell what was the surname--ARIATA is my best guess) and Micaela OAKZ (Could not tell what was the surname--)
Yo desciendo de algunas familias de Atotonilco el Alto, Jalisco a los que ya no les he podido continuar la linea mas atrás. Por ejemplo:
1.- Tomás de España y Luisa María García, padres de Francisco de España, genearca de la familia España en Tepatitlán, Jalisco. Debieron casar aprox. en 1720.
Yo tengo una rama de Atotonilco el Alto con una persona con el nombre de Trinidad Villaroel. Ella nacio en 1805 en Atotonilco el Alto. Quiero saber si alguin tiene mas informacion sobre de este apellido.
Gusto en Saludarte, yo tengo ascendencia Villarroel o Villarruel en
mi sangre, me interesa este apellido de mis ancestros.
Al Parecer los Villaruel, vienen desde Michoacan, a la Rivera de
Chapala, a la Barca, Jamay, Ocotlan y de alli pasan a Tototllan y
Atotonilco El Alto.
Mi Rama de los Villarruel y hasta donde yo he investigado es
la siguiente: Yo: Tomas Alejandro Villegas Gomez, Mi Madre:
Ma. Elena Gomez Castellanos, Mi Abuelo: Jose Gomez Gomez,
Mi Bisabuelo: Ignacio Gomez Villarruel, Mi Tatarabuela: Maria
Quirina Villaruel Orozco, Mi Cuarto Abuelo: Jose Vicente Agustin
Villarruel Lomelin Bautizado el 30 de A gosto de 1832 en
Ocotlan, Jal., casado el 5-Jul-1848 en Ocotlan con Maria Teresa
Mariana Orozco Jimenez, Mi Quinto Abuelo: Juan Jose de la
Cruz Villarruel Cabeza de Vaca, bautizado el 28-Nov-1797 en
Jamay, Jalisco, casado el 8-May-1822 en Ocotlan, Jal. con
Teresa Lomelin Flores. Mi 6to. Abuelo: Rafael Villarroel de Ochoa
Nacido Aprox. en 1773 probablemente en La
Error de Dedo: El Matrimonio de Jose Antonio Rafael Villarroel
con Vicenta de Ochoa es el 03-Feb-1772 y no 1722 como puse.
El día 29 de marzo de 2009 23:44, Tomás Alejandro Villegas Gómez
escribió:
> Hola:
>
> Gusto en Saludarte, yo tengo ascendencia Villarroel o Villarruel en
> mi sangre, me interesa este apellido de mis ancestros.
>
> Al Parecer los Villaruel, vienen desde Michoacan, a la Rivera de
> Chapala, a la Barca, Jamay, Ocotlan y de alli pasan a Tototllan y
> Atotonilco El Alto.
>
> Mi Rama de los Villarruel y hasta donde yo he investigado es
> la siguiente: Yo: Tomas Alejandro Villegas Gomez, Mi Madre:
> Ma. Elena Gomez Castellanos, Mi Abuelo: Jose Gomez Gomez,
> Mi Bisabuelo: Ignacio Gomez Villarruel, Mi Tatarabuela: Maria
> Quirina Villaruel Orozco, Mi Cuarto Abuelo: Jose Vicente Agustin
> Villarruel Lomelin Bautizado el 30 de A gosto de 1832 en
> Ocotlan, Jal., casado el 5-Jul-1848 en Ocotlan con Maria Teresa
> Mariana Orozco Jimenez, Mi Quinto
Por Cierto:
El Dia de Ayer, Sabado 28 de Marzo del 2009
pasaron el Tv Azteca en "La Historia detras de Mito"
la Historia de Valentin Trujillo Gazcon el actor del
Cine Mexicano y dicen nacio el 28-Mzo-1951 (Por lo
que el programa de Tv fue transmitido el dia en que
debia cumplir 58 años de edad), dice en sus datos
que nacio en Atotonilco, Jalisco, pero aunque ya
busque en internet mas datos al parecer solo los
copian de un lugar a otro y no profundizan, alguien
sabe mas datos de este actor en que Atotonilco
Nacio, el Alto o el Bajo, y si sus padres eran de
Ascendencia Jalicience o solo fue accidente que
Valentin Trujillo Naciera en Atotonilco, Jalisco.
Saludos:
Tomas Alejandro Villegas Gomez.
Here is some information that might help you continue your search for the first two families. I have not looked for the third yet. It looks like the first two families might have moved from Atotonilco el Alto, Jalisco to Tepatitlan, Jalisco. The timing of the information I found is off from your estimations. Look at the originals. Good luck!
Name: Dominga Espanã
Gender: Female
Christening date: 1710
Christening place: Atotonilco el Alto, Jalisco, Mexico
Residence: Atotonilco el Alto, Jalisco, Mexico
Father name: To. Espanã
Mother name: Luisa Ma.
Batch number: C04275-0
Record group: Mexico-EASy
Film number: 222109
Collection: Mexico Baptisms 1700-1900
Name: Jph Maria Aranda
Gender: Male
Christening date: 11 Feb 1748
Christening place: Atotonilco el Alto, Jalisco, Mexico
Residence: Atotonilco el Alto, Jalisco, Mexico
Father name: Jph Antto Aranda
Mother name: Mariana Ramires
Batch number: C04275-0
Record group: Mexico-EASy
Film number: 222109
Collection: Mexico Baptisms 1700-1900
Tengo magníficas noticias: Arturo ha determinado que el sitio de NR
necesita reconstruirse y ha emprendido el tremendo proyecto de llevarlo
a cabo. Para lo cual, NR estará fuera de servicio el viernes 3 de abril
Tengo magníficas noticias: Arturo ha determinado que el sitio de NR
necesita reconstruirse y ha emprendido el tremendo proyecto de llevarlo
a cabo. Para lo cual, NR estará fuera de servicio el viernes 3 de abril
Hi. What happened to the FILMS section of the site? I am having trouble accessing film indexes. Is it me, or is the site down?
Sorry about the inconvenience about the Films section of the site. I must admit it was my tinkering that brought it down for a while but it is back up now.
I don't know if this is of any solace but my tinkering implies that the Films section of the site will be fully functional in the new and improved Ranchos site when we relaunch it on Friday.
Arturo, No worries about the tinkering...please...tinker away! Your contribution to this site is immensely appreciated by me and others on this site.
THANK YOU, GRACIAS, MERCI, DANKE SCHEIN, ARIGATO...
and in Nahuatl: Tlazohcamatzin
its down so I'd say that the we shouldn't expect it back until after the
rebuild on Friday.
joseph
======================
Joseph Puentes
NoMeat@h2opodcast.com
http://h2opodcast.com/vsse.html (Vegan Environmental Solutions Podcast)
http://h2opodcast.com (Environmental Podcast)
http://h2opodcast.blogspot.com (Blog for above)
http://PleaseListenToYourMom.com (Women's Peace Podcast)
http://NuestraFamiliaUnida.com (Latin American History Podcast)
http://nuestrosranchos.org (Jalisco, Zacatecas, and Aguascalientes
Genealogy)
Claudia_Reynoso wrote:
>
> Hi. What happened to the FILMS section of the site? I am having
> trouble accessing film indexes. Is it me, or is the site down?
Hello All, I am wondering if the Martínez de Calvillo family are the same family as Martín de Calvillo? I know there is also Martín de Sotomayor and also seen them as Martínez de Sotomayor? are those the same families, for each pair? Thanks,
I have great news: Arturo is taking the NR site down on FRIDAY, APRIL
3rd for at least 24 hours with the possibility of it being a bit longer.
He has determined that the site is in bad need of being rebuilt and he
I have great news: Arturo is taking the NR site down on FRIDAY, APRIL
3rd for at least 24 hours with the possibility of it being a bit longer.
He has determined that the site is in bad need of being rebuilt and he
I have great news: Arturo is taking the NR site down on FRIDAY, APRIL
3rd for at least 24 hours with the possibility of it being a bit longer.
He has determined that the site is in bad need of being rebuilt and he
Juan de Ortiz married Luisa de Esparza on Dec. 13, 1666 in Aguascalientes (no parents listed). I've checked all the images of "Informacion Matrimonial" for 1666 in Pilot, but there are several months missing for that year. I was able to identify two potential individuals in Aguascalientes: Luisa Esparza Lozano, b. 6 Feb 1637, daughter of Pedro Ruiz Esparza and Juana Lozano, and Luisa Esparza Lisalde, born 28 Feb 1648 daughter of Jacinto Ruiz de Esparza and Juana Lopez Lisalde. I also know that Pedro Macias Valades married a Luisa de Esparza on July 2 1684 (no parents listed), after the death of his first wife, Francisca de Quiroga. Thus I am trying to figure out which of the two Luisas correspond to the respective marriages. Any help will be appreciated.
I do not have any additional information on Mathias Macias Valades other than that confimation record I mentioned. I will send you the JPG.
Jaime
Bill,
I found the 'informacion matrimonial' of Pedro Macias Valades (son of Tomas MV and Maria de Alvarado Lopez de Elizalde) and Juana de Esparza (Sept 1678). The first page is difficult to read, but while Pedro's info is given, there none for the parents of Juana. In addition, Pedro signs his declaration, but hers is signed in her behalf and it is 'obscure' about details. The witnesses declare that Pedro and Juana 'fueron criados juntos'. I wonder if they lived in the same household, and whether she was an illegitimate child of a relative. In a separate e-mail, I will send you the jpg files.
Almost forgot, while searching in that same year, I found the informacion matrimonial of Pedro Macias Valades (son of Pedro Macias Valades and Josepha Gutierrez) when she married to Francisca Ruis de Quiroga (daughter of Bartholome the Espitia and Juana Gonzalez). Do you want a copy?
Jaime
Jaime,
Yes, I would like scans of the 'Información Matrimonial' of Pedro Macías Valadez and Juana de Esparza (Sept 1678) and Pedro Macías Valadez and Francisca Ruiz de Quiroga. I want to read these documents and add some notes to my database. I find searching for these documents very time consuming because of the lack of indexing. Incidentally, I found the burial of Pedro Macías Valadez (the one who married Luisa Gómez aka Luisa de Esparza in 1684). He was buried 14 Jul 1737 in Aguascalientes. His wife is listed as Luissa de Esparsa. You may want to add that bit of information to your family tree.
Have you ever tried to find anyone in the Confirmation records? The parents and godparents of kids being confirmed are always listed. Not other useful information. I've found the confirmation of several of my ancestors and they were listed correctly. Do you think it would be worthwhile searching for Luisa Gómez aka Luisa de Esparza between 1650-1680? Based on the information we
Bill,
Thanks for the burial info of Pedro MV. Regading confirmation records, I have tried to check it before, and have found certain children whose christenings I could not find. Just yesterday I stumbled into some that were out of place, among baptism records. I scanned those pages that had names I could recognize in my tree, saved the jpg files, and can I will check them out later. One record that came up, was a Mathias Macias Valades, son of Joseph Macias Valades and Catalina de la Vega. Prior to this, I only had Juan who married Juana Dominguez for that couple. I would not be surprised that you already have it with a bunch of other siblings.
Jaime
PS I will send you jpg files in a few minutes. Did you received the ones I sent you earlier today?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Figueroa"
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Monday, March 23, 2009 8:14:20 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Luisa Esparza Lozano or Luisa Esparza
Jaime,
I did receive all the jpg files you sent me, thank you very much. I do NOT
have Mathias Macias Valadez, son of Joseph Macías Valadez and Catalina de la
Vega, in my records, but I do have 1) Thomas who married María de Anda
Miramontes 2 Feb 1693, 2) Josepha who married Antonio de Cuellar 29 Nov 1681
and 3) Ursula who married Antonio de Acosta 22 Aug 1677. Do you have any
other data for Mathias or any other children? Did he survive adolescence,
marry and had children?
Bill
Confirmaciones are excellent records; where else are you going to piece together a family quickly and know if they are still living in the vicinity. They are not only a good indicator of a child arriving to the age of confirmation but when the family moved. If the child does not get confirmed and others do, then what happened; did the child die? What if other children did not get confirmed did the family move away, or did they all die? They could have all died, but more than likely they moved away. If there is a gap in the confirmation of the children and a child is missed then chances are that you will find the child in the defunciones.
Billl,
One thing is for sure, we will never get bored trying to 'reconstruct' our families histories. I can see your point about the age Luisa had she married Pedro Macias Valades, yet in my family tree, I have a several great-great-etc-grandmothers that married 'late', either in their first or second marriage, and were still able to produce manyt children (thank God, otherwise I would not be here!). Going back to Luisa de Esparza Lisalde. I am including the transcription of her christening:
(Al Margen) Luissa Espa ñ ola.
En veinte y ocho de Febrero de mill y seiscientos y quarenta y ocho a ñ os en esta parroqia baptise y chatechisse a una ni ñ a a la qual pusse por n(ombr)e Luisa Hija de Jasinto de Esparza y de Juana de Lisalde sacola de pila Franco Gomez dixele la obligacion del parentesco. (Rubrica) Luys de Zepeda
You are right. Francisco Gomez, who held her during the ceremony, was the husband of her older sister Margarita, having married the year before. However
Jaime,
The "padrinos" at the wedding of Pedro Macías Valadez and Luisa Gómez (or Ruiz de Esparza) were NOT Francisco Gómez and Margarita Ruiz de Esparza. Francisco Gómez was buried in Aguascalientes 2 Oct 1655. His wife was alive in 1683 and probably in 1684. Francisco burial record reads as follows:
Al margen: "Franco. Gomes
Marido de Marga
rita de Sparsa
testo y no dexo
obras pias"
"En dos de octubre año de mil y seiscientos y sinqta. y cinco
enterre en la Parrochial de esta Villa a Franco. Gomes
spañol natural de Sevilla marido q' fue
de Margarita de Sparsa Recibio los SStos Sa
cramtos. y testo No dexo obras pias y lo firme
D. Bme. de Soto y Carvajal"
I feel sorry for Doña Margarita. She was pregnant when her husband died. Their
Bill,
Could there be a Pedro Macias Valadez married to a Luisa de Esparza, different from a Pedro Macias Valadez married to Luisa Gomez (Ruiz de Esparza)? With so many people christened with same name (got another two Luisas Esparza that died earlier), and the same families often intermarrying, I wonder about that possibility. That is a headache with my maternal line from Nuevo Leon, where Garcia and de la Garza families intermarried for generations in Villa de Garcia. The LDS site is swamped with unverified submissions 'based on matches taken at face value without reading the original documents. The number of Gertrudis de la Garza is oustanding! I got about six of as direct ancestors (all related), with my great grandfather having two 'abuelas' Gertrudis Garza. These Gertrudis are oftern interchanged, creating huge discrepancies among family trees.
Regarding Francisco Gomez, I will send you the JPG of the wedding of Pedro and Luisa where it reads without doubt "fueron los padrinos
Jaime,
There was a Pedro Macías Valadez who married a Juana de Esparza 16 Sep 1678 in Aguascalientes. I don't know anything about this Juana de Esparza. Pedro was the son of Thomas Macías Valadez and María de Alvarado y López de Elizalde. You may want to check his Información Matrimonial.
I don't have another Luisa Gómez in my database, but I do have a Luisa Ruiz de Esparza who married Gerónimo Montañez on 22 Feb 1689, a Juana Luisa Ruiz de Esparza who married Joseph de Chávez on 8 Dec 1696 and a Luisa Ruiz de Esparza who married Juan Ortiz on 13 Dec 1666 (you already checked this one) all of them in Aguascalientes. I have a few more but they're from different generations. I did a quick search for the Información Matrimonial of Pedro Macías Valadez and Luisa Gómez (or Ruiz de Esparza) but could not find it. As you know, Pedro Macías Valadez had been married to Francisca de Espitia (aka Francisca de Quiroga) with whom he had two children. He then had five with Luisa Gómez (or
Hi Bill, Its Daniel, i have one question, Im very confused about all the Luisa you mention? Correct me, Franco. Gómez and Margarita had Bálthazar, Franco. II, Luisa II and Margarita II? Did this Luisa married Pedro Macías Valadés?
I found this who is this Luisa's parentts?
LUISA DE ESPARZA
Pedigree
Female
Family
Event(s):
Birth:
Christening:
Death:
Burial:
Marriages:
Spouse:
PEDRO MACIAS VALADEZ
Family
Marriage:
02 JUL 1684
Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, Mexico
-Daniel Méndez del Camino
_________________________________________________________________
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Daniel,
The Luisa Esparza (or Gómez) that has not been identified is the one who married Pedro Macías Valadez in 1684. In her marriage record she is Luisa Esparza but her daughter Margarita Macías referred to her as Luisa Gómez in her marriage declaration.
Francisco Gómez, a native of Seville who settled in Nueva Galicia in the early or mid-1600s, married Margarita Ruiz de Esparza in 1647. I have identified four of their children:
1. Francisco, their "primogénito" was born in 1648. Probably died infant.
2. Margarita, birth date unknown, could be their second child. She married Juan Ruiz de Escamilla.
3. Francisco II, born in 1652, first married María González de Huerta and when she died he married María de Altuna y Contreras.
4. Baltazar, their last child, was born in 1656. His father died four months before he was born. I don't know if he survived but have found no additional information about him.
Francisco Gómez died in 1655. Margarita Ruiz de Esparza did not remarry
Hola Jaime, Bill y los otros Esparzas!
My sister in law and I are searching for the Esparza family (Martin Ruiz De
Esparza) from Aguas/Zacatecas area that migrated to the North. Thus far we
know that Domingo in Saltillo is the only one moving to the north area --
Texas, Monterrey, New Mexico, CA -- When we were searching we could not
find many Esparzas north of Jalisco, Zacazatecas. ...the Generations of Lope
& Ana Gabay. Also, Gregorio has moved north. In 1750, when the real
migration began, we find other Esparzas in Lampazos -- one Manuel was there,
but what happened to the others? Do your Esparza come North?
Thanks, Phyls Esparza
Hola Phyls,
Most early settlers of Aguascalientes stayed close to home in the 1600s, but by the 1700s their descendants moved in all directions. One thing to consider is that not only the ones that carry the surname are Esparzas. Some are much more difficult to detect, like myself for example. My great-grandmother Josefa Frias Esparza was born in Rincon de Romos in 1848. Her mother Refugio Ruiz de Esparza died when Josefa was born, so my 2-great grandfather (tatarabuelo) Antonio Frías moved the family to Tepic, Nayarit, which at that time was 'Territorio Militar' and previously had been 'Séptimo Cantón de Jalisco' and part of Nueva Galicia. Nayarit became a state in 1914 or thereabouts. Antonio Frías had a thriving transportation business in Tepic, moving goods from ships arriving at the port of San Blas, to the city of Guadalajara. He also had mining interests in other areas. In 1870 Josepha Frías Esparza married my great-grandfather Wilhelm L. Strecker, a German-American
Phyls,
I never seem to get all the typos before I send my emails. I didn't mean "follow the threat of their ancestors" but rather "follow de THREAD to their ancestors". A slip of the finger. Sorry!!
Bill Figueroa
What a weekend! I gathered lots of information for differents sources (thanks to everyone), and was able to conclude the following regarding the two Luisas.
Jacinto Ruiz de Esparza and Juana Lopez de Lizalde were parents of Luisa de Esparza Lizalde, b. 28 Feb 1648, Aguascalientes. Luisa's godfather was Francisco Gomez. Luisa married Pedro Macias Valades on July 2, 1684. The Godfather at the wedding was again Francisco Gomez togehter with Margarita Gomez. Luisa and Pedro had the following children: Isabel b. 1685, Margarita b 13 Oct 1686, Josepha b. 1688, Pedro b.1689 y Maria b. 1691. Margarita Macias married Manuel Delgado Lopez Lizalde, son of Luis Delgado and Theresa Lopez Lisalde, on April 17, 1706 (Informacion Matrimonial April 7th). What is interesting, is that in this document, the parents of the bride are listed as: Pedro Macias Valades and Luisa Gomez! The age of the bride (19 years old) corresponds with Margarita's birthdate, and as far as I can tell, this is the same
Jaime,
I believe that Luisa Ruiz de Esparza, the daughter of Jacinto Ruiz de Esparza and Juana López de Elizalde, married Baltazar Caldera in Aguascalientes on 21 Feb 1667. She would have been 19 years old. Her marriage record reads as follows:
Al margen "Baltasar Caldera
con Luissa ruis
de esparsa casados
y velados"
"En beinte y un dias del mes de febrero
año de mill y seiscientos y sesenta y siete
abiendo presedido todo lo que dispone el
Santo consilio de trento y los sacros
canones in facie ecclesie casse por palabras
de presente que hisieron verdadero ma=
trimonio y velle a Baltasar Caldera
con Luissa ruis de esparsa españoles
fueron testigos Joan Bauptista Sanches
Miguel Cordero y Gaspar Serrano
y
Yo tengo registrada a Luisa Ruiz de Esparza, la mujer de Pedro Macías Valadez como hija de Salvador Ruiz de Esparza y Francisca Vallín. Lo encontré en su acta de defunción, y ahí menciona que es hija de ellos.
Saludos.
Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.
_________________________________________________________________
¿Conoces todas las novedades de Messenger?
www.messengernews.com.mx
Hola, Jorge puede decirme que es la fecha de la defunción de Luisa? Gracias
-Daniel M. Camino
_________________________________________________________________
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Hola, creo que tengo un error aquí. Acabo de revisar las fechas que tengo de defunción tanto de Luisa de Esparza y de Pedro Macías, y tengo un error.
Tengo como fecha de defunción de Luisa de Esparza el 19 de mayo de 1739, pero lo revisé ahorita, y no es Luisa sino Juana de Esparza, viuda de Pedro Macías e hija de Salvador Ruiz de Esparza y Francisca Vallín.
Lo anterior también se me hizo raro porque también revisé la fecha de defunción de Pedro Macías con fecha de 14 de julio de 1737, y ahi menciona que es viudo de Luisa de Esparza, por lo tanto Luisa de Esparza debió morir antes de 1737, y no en 1739 como tengo.
Siento mucho haber hecho este comentario tan errado. Perdón.
Saludos.
Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.
_________________________________________________________________
¿Quieres transformarte en un emoticón de Messenger? Descubre cómo
www.messengernews.com.mx
Jorge,
Encontré el registro del entierro de Luisa Gómez (alias Luisa de Esparza) pero no menciona a sus padres. Dice:
Al margen: "Luisa Gomes casada con Pedro Macias"
"En la Villa de Aguas Calientes en dos de Marso de mil setecientos y treinta años en esta Santa Yglesia Parrochial enterre a Luisa Gomes española casada con Pedro Macias Vecinos de esta Villa. Recibio los Santos Sacramentos de Penitencia, Eucaristia y Extrema Uncion no hiso testamento porque no tubo de que y para que conste lo firme. Br. Alexandro Calvillo"
Este documento no menciona a sus padres. Tienes a un Salvador Ruiz de Esparza casado con Francisca Vallín? De donde proviene el apellido Gómez?
Gracias,
Bill Figueroa
TRANSLATION
Jorge,
I found the burial record of Luisa Gómez (aka Luisa de Esparza) but it does NOT mention her parents. It reads:
Al margen: "Luisa Gomes casada con Pedro Macias"
"En la Villa de Aguas Calientes en dos de Marso de mil setecientos y treinta años en esta Santa Yglesia
Stuart,
Regarding Elizalde, I have found the surname as Lisaldi, Lisalde, Lisardi (with s or z) for the same individual in different records (christening, marriage, burial, etc). Like most basque surnames Elizalde has a simple meaning: next to the church.
There are several websites that deal with origins, variations and meaning of basque surnames. One in spanish,english, french or basque is:
http://www.geocities.com/apellidos_vascos/apellidos.html
For Elizalde they give: Delissalde, Elisalde, Elissalt, Elizade, Lizalde, all equivalent.
There is also a book on basque surnames, available in CD: http://www.euskalnet.net/lizardicb/apellidos.htm
A site that I recommend to everyone in Nuestros Ranchos is: http://apellido.enfemenino.com/w/apellidos/apellido-elizalde.html. Here you can obtain the current distribution and frequency of surnames in Spain. You can identify that certain variations of a surname are highly localized. Interestingly, certain surnames very frequent in Los
Pedro's daughter Luisa Esparza was known as Ma. Luisa Ángeles but she used de los Reyes as her surname mostly. The other Luisa, Jacinto's daughter appears as Juana Luisa Ruiz de Esparza on her daughter Margarita de Macías y Valadés' baptism. Not sure where she gets Juana? Possibly her mother, kinda hard since both sets of Luisas have Juanas as her mother. Juana López de Elizalde and Juana Ruiz de Lozano. Just thouhgt this might help with something. -Daniel
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I have a question indirectly related:
Are Elizalde and Lizalde interchangeable?
Are Elizondo and Lizondo interchangeable?
--
Best regards,
Stuart mailto:stuartarms@gmail.com
Big time, the original López de Elizalde but with time it was shorten to Elizalde but others did keep the entire thing, varioations in spelling came about Lisalde, Elisalde, Lisardi, Lizardi, list goes on....-Daniel
> Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 09:44:10 -0600
> From: stuartarms@gmail.com
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Luisa Esparza Lozano or Luisa Esparza Lizalde
>
> I have a question indirectly related:
> Are Elizalde and Lizalde interchangeable?
> Are Elizondo and Lizondo interchangeable?
>
> --
> Best regards,
> Stuart mailto:stuartarms@gmail.com
>
I just wonder which Luisa married to Pedro Macías Valadés. Maybe it was a second husband. I dont think Luisa who married Pedro Romo, daughter of Pedro Ruiz de Esparza married a second time. Its possible this Pedro Macias who married a Luisa was the same Luisa the daughter of Jacinto. But there is no documentation so its hard to tell, We DO know it has to be these Luisas. -Daniel
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Hi, again, I looked in my database and possibly confirm that PEdro Macías was son of Tomás Macías and MAría López de Elizalde. I had a Pedro who married "Juana" de Esparza, since this other Pedro we speak of married a Luisa Esparza, and their daughters baptism she appears as Juana Luisa Esparza, I think its the same women, because of the time period is symmetrical. -Daniel
Jaime, Luisa was the daughter of Pedro Ruiz de Esparza and Juana Lozano from Aguascalientes.
Miguel Angel Gutierrez
----- Original Message -----
From: Jaime Alvarado
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 6:59 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Luisa Esparza Lozano or Luisa Esparza Lizalde
Juan de Ortiz married Luisa de Esparza on Dec. 13, 1666 in Aguascalientes (no parents listed). I've checked all the images of "Informacion Matrimonial" for 1666 in Pilot, but there are several months missing for that year. I was able to identify two potential individuals in Aguascalientes: Luisa Esparza Lozano, b. 6 Feb 1637, daughter of Pedro Ruiz Esparza and Juana Lozano, and Luisa Esparza Lisalde, born 28 Feb 1648 daughter of Jacinto Ruiz de Esparza and Juana Lopez Lisalde. I also know that Pedro Macias Valades married a Luisa de Esparza on July 2 1684 (no parents listed), after the death of his first wife, Francisca de Quiroga. Thus I am trying to
Miggy,
I am assuming that you are referring to the Luisa married to Juan de Ortiz. If that is correct then:
Juan Ortiz married Luisa de Esparza Lozano and Pedro Macias Valades married Luisa de Esparza Lisalde.
Jaime
----- Original Message -----
From: "Miggy GUTIERREZ"
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 4:04:58 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Luisa Esparza Lozano or Luisa Esparza Lizalde
Jaime, Luisa was the daughter of Pedro Ruiz de Esparza and Juana Lozano from Aguascalientes.
Miguel Angel Gutierrez
----- Original Message -----
From: Jaime Alvarado
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 6:59 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Luisa Esparza Lozano or Luisa Esparza Lizalde
Juan de Ortiz married Luisa de Esparza on Dec. 13, 1666 in Aguascalientes (no parents listed). I've checked all the images of "Informacion Matrimonial" for 1666 in Pilot, but there are several months missing
The Luisa Ruiz de Esparza I have married to Juan Ortiz, was born Feb 6, 1637 in Aguascalientes. Married Dec 13, 1666. Her Parents were Pedro Ruiz de Esparza and Juana Lozano. Other brothers she had were Nicolas, Maria, Nicolasa, Matiana, Juan, Beatriz
----- Original Message -----
From: Jaime R. Alvarado
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 3:21 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Luisa Esparza Lozano or Luisa Esparza Lizalde
Miggy,
I am assuming that you are referring to the Luisa married to Juan de Ortiz. If that is correct then:
Juan Ortiz married Luisa de Esparza Lozano and Pedro Macias Valades married Luisa de Esparza Lisalde.
Jaime
----- Original Message -----
From: "Miggy GUTIERREZ" >
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 4:04:58 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Luisa Esparza Lozano or Luisa Esparza Lizalde
Jaime, Luisa was the daughter of Pedro Ruiz de
It cant be Pedro's daughter Luisa who married Juan Ortiz because she was was married to PEdro Romo de Vivar at the time. It should be the other Luisa her cousin, daughter of Jacinto Ruiz de Esparza. -Daniel
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Hola a Todos, estoy buscando 2 cosas, una a los parientes de un General de la Revolución Apellidado Limón, de Guadalajara Jalisco parece que vivían en la colonia Ladrón de Guevara en Guadalajara, específicamentea su hija Eulalia ( tía Yaya) casada con un Sr. Coronado ( realmente lo busco a él y a su familia), éste es hijo de mi bisabuelo perdido Everardo Coronado, dueño de una hacienda Santa María en Ameca Jalisco..salío a pagar unas rayas cerca de 1915-1917 y solo regresó su caballo, lo encontraron colgado por ahí..
Hola Leticia,
Cual es el nombre completo de este General Limon?
-Esperanza
>
> Hola a Todos, estoy buscando 2 cosas, una a los parientes de un General
> de la Revolución Apellidado Limón, de Guadalajara Jalisco parece que
> vivían en la colonia Ladrón de Guevara en Guadalajara, específicamentea
> su hija Eulalia ( tía Yaya) casada con un Sr. Coronado ( realmente lo
> busco a él y a su familia), éste es hijo de mi bisabuelo perdido Everardo
> Coronado, dueño de una hacienda Santa María en Ameca Jalisco..salío a
> pagar unas rayas cerca de 1915-1917 y solo regresó su caballo, lo
> encontraron colgado por ahí..
>
> o si alguien tiene alos descendientes de Vasquez de Coronado en
> jalisco..alguna pista?
>
>
>
> la segunda, alguíen sabe quienes eran los dueños originales o de hace 20 o
> 30 años de las Zapaterías 3 Hermanos? el hermano de Josefa Rada mi
> bisabuela perdida hija de Cristóbal Rada y Juliana Gonzalez en guadalajara
> cerca de 1850,( por cierto ya no fué soltera y se
Hola, Esperanza , aty, gracias por su interés apenas me enteré ayer de ésta familia (Coronado Limón) he leído muy poco y pecando de ignorante pues desconozco por completo el tema, sólo encontré a Gilberto R. Limón quien estuvo bajo as órdenes de Alvaró Obregón y nació en Sonora, y hay otro Gral Antonio Limón en Jalisco y otro Mnuel de Jesús Limón Marquez así que no tengo ni idea pero ya estoy estudiando sobre el tema..para saber quien era quien..saludos L. Reynoso
>
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hola Lety,
En referencia a tu mensaje del 18 de febrero en relación a un General Limon
en Guadalajara, te tengo noticias, hoy buscando entre los papeles de mi mamá
(que tenia a bien guardar cualquier cosa) encontré una tarjetita
viejisisisisisima de un tio mio, que todavia vive pero en Brasil, lo
importante aqui es que atras de la tarjeta traia apuntado con la letra de mi
mamá "General Limon" y un telefono, la tarjeta tendrá minimo unos 45 años,
(esta tarjeta es de cuando mi tio todavia vivia en guadalajara) pero si aun
te interesa te puedo dar el telefono o en su defecto preguntarle a mi tio.
Saludos
Patty Haro
2009/2/18 leticia reynoso
>
> Hola, Esperanza , aty, gracias por su interés apenas me enteré ayer de ésta
> familia (Coronado Limón) he leído muy poco y pecando de ignorante pues
> desconozco por completo el tema, sólo encontré a Gilberto R. Limón quien
> estuvo bajo as órdenes de Alvaró Obregón y nació en Sonora, y hay otro
> Gral Antonio Limón en Jalisco y otro Mnuel de
Hola te digo antes de que se me olvide que mi marido si conoce al profesor que me pregutaba tu marido, creo que daba moral o algo así..luego si me interesa tu tío supongo habla bien el español porque yo entiendo en portugués pero no lo hablo..también de hecho tengo una prima allá ( ella de hecho también es Coronado, se casó con un O'farril y se fueron hace varios años pero yo solo sé su nombre), pues ella podría contactar bien a tu tío y preguntarle..estaría muy bien si los contactas por mail o algo ( algún primo) si no me puedes dar su tel. esto es como teléfono descompuesto porque mi hermano dice que una hija del General Limón llamada Eulalia ( tía yaya) estaba casada con el hijo mayor o hermano menor? de mi abuelo Eberardo Coronado. te agradezco muchísimo Paty..Lety R.
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Deja le pregunto a mi tio y lo pongo en antecedentes, te podrás comunicar
directo con el ya que apesar de sus 82 años maneja perfecto las
computadoras, asi que ya sea por messenger o skype podrás platicar muy
agusto con el, que habla perfecto español y un poquito de portugues, el
vivia en guadalajara y se caso con una brasileña y se fueron a vivir a un
pueblito cerca de las cataratas iguazu, luego te paso su mail.
Saludos
Patty
2009/3/6 leticia reynoso
>
>
> Hola te digo antes de que se me olvide que mi marido si conoce al profesor
> que me pregutaba tu marido, creo que daba moral o algo así..luego si me
> interesa tu tío supongo habla bien el español porque yo entiendo en
> portugués pero no lo hablo..también de hecho tengo una prima allá ( ella de
> hecho también es Coronado, se casó con un O'farril y se fueron hace varios
> años pero yo solo sé su nombre), pues ella podría contactar bien a tu tío y
> preguntarle..estaría muy bien si los contactas por mail o algo ( algún
>
Paty, oye, con esas características y viviendo cerca de las cataratas mejor lo voy a visitar!! y le llevo saludos de tu parte.. no te creas claro que me encantará contactarme con tu tío..Lety R
>
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¿Ya compartes fotos y videos por Messenger?
www.messengernews.com.mx
Si puedes ve a visitarlo (no sabes que envidia me das), es una bellisima
persona, deja que se conecte al messenger y platico con el un rato para
luego ponerlo en contacto contigo.
Saludos
Patty
On Sat, Mar 7, 2009 at 12:22 PM, leticia reynoso wrote:
>
> Paty, oye, con esas características y viviendo cerca de las cataratas mejor
> lo voy a visitar!! y le llevo saludos de tu parte.. no te creas claro que me
> encantará contactarme con tu tío..Lety R
>
> >
> _________________________________________________________________
> ¿Ya compartes fotos y videos por Messenger?
> www.messengernews.com.mx
Hola a todos,
Acabo de encontrar una línea de mi familia que yo creia que era del D.F.
pero resulta que es de Zacatecas, logre conseguir la partida de nacimiento
de una tia bisabuela desgraciadamente, no se alcanzan a apreciar bien los
nombres en el microfilm que consulte en el Archivo General de la Nación, asi
que pensé que igual alguno de ustedes tendria acceso a ese microfilm de
manera que me pudiera ayudar con la interpretación, ya que contiene los
nombres de los abuelos de mi bisabuela, o .....igual y alguno de ustedes ya
tiene algo en esa linea, los datos son los siguientes:
Maria de la Luz Josefa Barrios Rios
16 de abril de 1870
Sagrario de la Catedral de Zacatecas, Zacatecas
libro 12, pagina 41 vuelta, registro 109
Desgraciadamente no cuento con el número de film ya que en el AGN se manejan
diferentes números
Padres:
Pedro Barrios
Luz Rios
Abuelos Paternos:
????, Barrios
Ponciana? Mijares??????
Abuelos Maternos
Manuel y Jesusa Ibarrola??
Si alguien sabe algo, le
Hola paty si no se ve bien ése puedes tratar con los demás hijos de Pedro Barrios y Luz Rios
1.-Eduardo Tomás AgapitoBarrios Rios nace el 20 sep 1867 ..Sagrario o Santo Domingo
C600786
2.-Venjame Manuel de jesus Varrios Rios nace 04 apr 1875 checa el dato en Mezquial de Juan Aldama Zacatecas
(J601042 film 0604915 y 0601042)
3.- Carlos jesus Barrios Rios 10 mar 1875 Mezquital....
4.- Mateo de Jesus Barrios Rios 04 oct 1871 Mezquital... atentamrnte Leticia Reynoso
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Leticia, desde hace 40 años yo he sabbido que los dueños de las zapaterías tres hermanos son : los padilla, que son de San Juan De Los Lagos Jalisco, y no son tres hermanos, son ocho o fueron porque han muerto algunos, ellos viven en Leon Guanajuato.
Ruben Casillas M.
--- El mié 18-feb-09, leticia reynoso escribió:
De:: leticia reynoso
Asunto: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Coronado-Limón y zapaterias 3 Hermanos
A: "genealogy groups" , "s s"
Fecha: miércoles, 18 febrero, 2009, 9:04 am
Hola a Todos, estoy buscando 2 cosas, una a los parientes de un General de la
Revolución Apellidado Limón, de Guadalajara Jalisco parece que vivían en la
colonia Ladrón de Guevara en Guadalajara, específicamentea su hija Eulalia (
tía Yaya) casada con un Sr. Coronado ( realmente lo busco a él y a su
familia), éste es hijo de mi bisabuelo perdido Everardo Coronado, dueño de una
hacienda Santa María en Ameca Jalisco..salío a pagar unas rayas cerca de
1915-1917 y solo regresó su caballo, lo encontraron
hola Lety,
Ya estoy de regreso, por cierto que creo q algo tengo de parentesco con el
general limon, en mi memoria recuerdo que mi mamá nos platicaba algo de el,
deja le pregunto a un primo de ella a ver si sabe algo, esta relación sería
por el lado de los Medina.
2009/2/18 ruben casillas moreno
> Leticia, desde hace 40 años yo he sabbido que los dueños de las zapaterías
> tres hermanos son : los padilla, que son de San Juan De Los Lagos Jalisco, y
> no son tres hermanos, son ocho o fueron porque han muerto algunos, ellos
> viven en Leon Guanajuato.
>
> Ruben Casillas M.
>
> --- El mié 18-feb-09, leticia reynoso escribió:
>
> De:: leticia reynoso
> Asunto: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Coronado-Limón y zapaterias 3 Hermanos
> A: "genealogy groups" , "s s"
> research@nuestrosranchos.org>
> Fecha: miércoles, 18 febrero, 2009, 9:04 am
>
>
> Hola a Todos, estoy buscando 2 cosas, una a los parientes de un General de
> la
> Revolución Apellidado Limón, de Guadalajara Jalisco parece que
Estimado Rubén yo también sabía que eran los Padilla pero me contacté con la compañía y me dijeron que vendieron hace 15 años y que los actuales no son los originales.., lo que no me aclararon es que si fueron los Padilla los que vendieron o se lo vendieron a los Padilla.. pero ya que me dices te agradezco mucho la información , trataré de seguir averiguando..gracias Leticia Reynoso
_________________________________________________________________
Es tu última oportunidad para ganar premios por el simple hecho de buscar en internet.
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Deben haber vendido. Además de las zapaterías, los señores Padilla eran accionistas del BANCRECER (Banco de crédito y servicios) ya desaparecido. Les perdí la pista en el 2000, en que me retiré de la actividad bancaria.
Indiscretamente.
VICENTE DE SAN MIGUEL.
> From: siriuslr@hotmail.com
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 14:18:22 -0600
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Coronado-Limón y zapaterias 3 Hermanos
>
>
>
> Estimado Rubén yo también sabía que eran los Padilla pero me contacté con la compañía y me dijeron que vendieron hace 15 años y que los actuales no son los originales.., lo que no me aclararon es que si fueron los Padilla los que vendieron o se lo vendieron a los Padilla.. pero ya que me dices te agradezco mucho la información , trataré de seguir averiguando..gracias Leticia Reynoso
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Es tu última oportunidad para ganar premios por el simple hecho de buscar en internet.
Sr. Vicente de San Miguel, indiscretamente que lindo,por molestarse en contestar mi mensaje..lo traumante es que entre más tienen..más inaccesible se vuelve contactarlos..y yo solo quiero saber como se llamaba su abuelito...ni hablar..muchas gracias...Leticia Reynoso
_________________________________________________________________
Realiza búsquedas en Internet y llévate hasta ¡Un Auto!
http://www.ganabuscando.com/Default.aspx
> Hola a todos,
> Acabo de encontrar una línea de mi familia que yo creia que era del D.F.
> pero resulta que es de Zacatecas, logre conseguir la partida de nacimiento
> de una tia bisabuela desgraciadamente, no se alcanzan a apreciar bien los
Simon RUIZ DE ESPARZA is my 13x great-grandfather. I just uploaded his descendant tree at http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/filemanager/active?fid=2996 . Would someone with knowledge of that line please take a look at it to see if we match data or for possible errors on my part?
I was present when someone, (an instructor) told a group of people that a family member had asked him for a copy of his genealogy and he responded by telling his relative that he was not going to give him anything because he had worked hard and had spent many years and a lot of money compiling his genealogy. This individual told the group that they should not share their genealogy either, "que les cueste a ellos también" were his words.
Yes, Eduardo, we often receive more than we give. I am so grateful to those on Nuestros Ranchos and Ancestry and Rootsweb for all their help and sharing. I cannot understand those who won't share their family trees. Thankfully they are few. Their excuse is sometimes that they want to copyright their info for a book, but years go by, they don't complete their work, keep it hidden and when something happens to them, all that work is often left to relatives that could care less about genealogy, and all their documentation, etc gets tossed away.
A case in point is the work of Jaime Holcombe. He died in the middle of a book he was working on, and when I contacted his son in Mexico City, he told me that he would complete the book his father had in progress, but that the bulk of his father's work was moldering in a storage room in his mother's house. He admitted to me that he and his siblings did not share their father's interest in genealogy. I think Jaime Holbrooke did share some of
Ah That would be Mole or pipian.. : )
Robert
--- On Wed, 3/25/09, Joseph Puentes wrote:
From: Joseph Puentes
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] The benefits of sharing
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Wednesday, March 25, 2009, 8:08 AM
Eduardo I fully support what you have said and want everyone to think deeply on these words of wisdom. I also strongly believe in that boomerang effect of what goes around comes around and radically changing the topic that is why I don't think there will ever be peace until we stop killing 50 billion animals world wide yearly and expecting to have world peace.
. . .but I have shifted away from Eduardo's encouragement. Please do look at those various genealogical lines that you have not shared and seriously consider updating your folders with new information. If you need help in submitting new information to your folder please contact me directly at: joseph@nuestrosranchos.org If you all want a good example of exactly what Eduardo is
Eduardo I fully support what you have said and want everyone to think
deeply on these words of wisdom. I also strongly believe in that
boomerang effect of what goes around comes around and radically changing
the topic that is why I don't think there will ever be peace until we
stop killing 50 billion animals world wide yearly and expecting to have
world peace.
. . .but I have shifted away from Eduardo's encouragement. Please do
look at those various genealogical lines that you have not shared and
seriously consider updating your folders with new information. If you
need help in submitting new information to your folder please contact me
directly at: joseph@nuestrosranchos.org If you all want a good example
of exactly what Eduardo is encouraging have a look at Kitty and Rich
Cortez' folder and you see the selfless work of a sharing genealogist!
Thank you Eduardo for this wonderful advice,
joseph
ps: I'm going to make an effort to upload a few lines of my genealogy
that I
I must comment on this subject. This is for the persons who are recipients of genealogical information. Most researchers have spent years compiling their work and this is an immense amount of time and money, plus the added effort of organizing family groups and sometimes double-checking with multiple source. We all realize this fact. I feel if you are a recipient of this goodwill, it would be unprofessional not to mention the researcher, if you intend to use their information in a book, a website, or oral or written presentation to families. This is whether for profit or not. Even if you go back to verify the work, that person who originally gave you the dates and leads should be mentioned in full name and their contribution, as they had made your work so much easier. Do the rest of you agree about this issue?
I have a cousin, who has worked on one of my family lines since 1967. Some of my fellow genealogically interested relatives find him hard to get along with, but mainly
I agree with you Maureen, about how grateful people who have shared info are to see me give them credit in the family history booklets I send out. I am getting ready to update a couple of these booklets, and I have many more people to credit for family trees, photos, family history.
Emilie
Port Orchard, WA
----- Original Message -----
From: Maureen Bejar
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 7:13 AM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Sharing Genealogical Information
I must comment on this subject. This is for the persons who are recipients of genealogical information. Most researchers have spent years compiling their work and this is an immense amount of time and money, plus the added effort of organizing family groups and sometimes double-checking with multiple source. We all realize this fact. I feel if you are a recipient of this goodwill, it would be unprofessional not to mention the researcher, if you intend to use their
Yes, Joseph, I too need to add some lines I have done since I last had you upload them for me.
Also, about that recipe using pumpkin seeds as a base, here is one using red chile.
http://www.inmamaskitchen.com/RECIPES/RECIPES/mexican_food_cooking/chic…
They also make a green chile sauce using tomatillos and pumpkin seeds. However, most of us use these sauces to pour over slices of roasted turkey, chicken or shrimp or enchiladas. Being a vegetarian, you might just pour it over corn tortillas filled with veggies (can you have cheese and eggs?). It is delicious. My mother used to save the seeds from our jack-o-lanterns after Halloween and she would wash them off and dry them and toast them for eating out of hand or in sauces.
Emilie
Port Orchard, WA
----- Original Message -----
From: Joseph Puentes
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 6:08 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] The benefits of sharing
Eduardo I fully
Yes, I agree with you. Promoting and sharing family tree is a task that comes along with the effort every one makes, genealogical researchers like us.
When ever I go to my HFC here in Tijuana I take a taxi cab to drive me there and enjoy sharing with the driver what am I going to do there.
Every one seems interested at least in the theme so I recomend always to do the research or at least to write down in a very special notebook what they know about their ancestors and contemporary relatives for their descendants to know what we have to research nowadays.
Also, I have been sharing in word office system with distant relatives, people that I have never met in person, people that I found while navigating the web, I feel like a hunter. Like when I look into flickr I had find relatives through.
Thank you for pointing out this fact.
Greetings from Leticia Leon
__________________________________________________
Correo Yahoo!
Espacio para todos tus mensajes, antivirus y
I just receieved notice that my films have arrived at the Family History Center. In the film section of this site, how does the indexing come up? Is it automatic or do I enter information that I have found? The center I went to said I could download the film if I bring my own memory device.
The actual films are not stored on the NR site. The film section is more
of a preparation for viewing your films. You can go to our film section
that Arturo has built and find out who might own that film at their
particular FHC, or you can click on it to see if there are Batch Records
available for online viewing. If there are batch records that will give
you brief information about what the individual records contain but
should never be used without confirming by looking at the film itself.
Afterall the transcriber might not be a native spanish speaker or might
have just made a mistake. A very small percent of what is available on
film is actually transcribed and available as batch records.
Having said all of that if you have particular records that you feel
would benefit the group I'd encourage you to go to the albums area and
under the folder that is called something like Member Scans make up a
folder for yourself and into that folder you can enter some of your
scans
Joseph you have brought up an interesting point. I have been reading records for abt 12 years now but only copying what pertained to my family lines. Then after the film has been returned I'd find there were other records that did tie into my lines. Because of this I decided I wanted to copy the complete films of a few key years. I asked permission at my local history center here in Everett Wa. and they had no problem with it as long as I didn't intend to sell it. I take my digital camera and have been able to completely copy 4 films so far and am working on two more, all from Jerez Zacatecas. I have too many records to put into the Nuestros site so they are on Rootsweb.com. I have over 63,000 names all online complete with the record if I have one including the source. I won't include any records that I can't offer a source for. I always ask persmission to post any record online if I get it from someone else, (like Marge Vallaza) and
give them credit as the source.
Linda in
Thank you for clearing that up. I'm new to this and already have found huge mistakes with transcription. Mistakes that change your search altogether-for example: thinking there are no records or following an incorrect line. I'm glad you point out the importance of actually viewing the films. The indexing is a good place to start and it can give you an idea of which films may contain the majority of your family history especially since most families stayed in the same area. Sherri Mora
Bill,
In addition to Mathias Macias Valades, whom I found by accident in a list of confirmations, and the children (Thomas, Josefa and Ursula) that you mentioned in your last message (under the Luiza Esparza Lozano or Luisa Esparza Lizalde-forum topic), I also have Juan, my 7X grandfather. Here is his info and of his children and grandchildren:
Can you explain the ascendency of diego alonso gonzalez de hermosillo. I am trying to connect this line to my other info.
Do you have the parents of Joseph macias valadez and catalina de la vega?
Thanks ricci
________________________________
From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org on behalf of Jaime Alvarado
Sent: Tue 3/24/2009 5:23 PM
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Another Son of Joseph Macias Valades andCatalina de la Vega
Bill,
In addition to Mathias Macias Valades, whom I found by accident in a list of confirmations, and the children (Thomas, Josefa and Ursula) that you mentioned in your last message (under the Luiza Esparza Lozano or Luisa Esparza Lizalde-forum topic), I also have Juan, my 7X grandfather. Here is his info and of his children and grandchildren:
JUAN MACIAS VALADES. Hijo de Catalina De La Vega y Joseph Macias Valades
1.1. Juan Macias Valades (Joseph Macias1) nació Alrededor de 1665 y murió en una fecha
Jaime,
Thanks for the information on Juan MACIAS VALADES and his descendants. Please confirm that Pedro Nolasco MACIAS VALADES and his brother Asencio married two sisters, María de los Remedios and Gertrudis Brígida ARANDA SOTOMAYOR. I found Gertrudis baptismal record dated 2 May 1716 at Ciénega de Mata.
Bill Figueroa
While checking the 'Informacion Matrimonial' of Thomas Macias Valades and Maria de Anda Miramontes (Jan 17, 1693), I found another child of Joseph Macias Valades and Catalina de la Vega. Joseph Macias Valades is identified as Thomas' brother and gave declaration about his solteria. I do not have any additional information on Joseph.
Jaime
Tengo algunos ancestros en Cuquío que me gustaría compartir para saber si ustedes tienen información sobre ellos. Yo desciendo del matrimonio de:
1.- Felipe Ortiz con Juana de la Barrera; padres de Francisca Ortiz de la Barrera casada con Juan Velásquez Sánchez en Cuquío el 07 de enero de 1721.
Mi esposa desciende de Salvador Plasencia casado con Marian De Torres, ellos son padres de joseph Plasencia casado el 4/sep/1714 en ayo el chico, jalisco con Maria anna asencio de leon.
ala mejor hay una connecion de salvador y agustin? y mariana y Andrea?
________________________________
From: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org on behalf of Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez
Sent: Wed 3/25/2009 8:09 AM
To: Nuestros Ranchos
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Familias de Cuquío , Jalisco.
Tengo algunos ancestros en Cuquío que me gustaría compartir para saber si ustedes tienen información sobre ellos. Yo desciendo del matrimonio de:
1.- Felipe Ortiz con Juana de la Barrera; padres de Francisca Ortiz de la Barrera casada con Juan Velásquez Sánchez en Cuquío el 07 de enero de 1721.
2.- La pareja formada por José Velásquez y Rosa Sánchez, padres del ya mencionado Juan Velásquez Sánchez.
3.- Agustín Plascencia y Andrea de Torres, padres de Cristobal Plascencia Torres, casado el 12 de
Puede que así sea, además es curioso porque Andrea a veces aparece como Andrea Gómez, otras como Andrea de Mendoza, y en ocasiones como Andrea de Torres. Lo cual a veces me hace pensar que pueda descender de Esteban Gómez Hurtado de Mendoza y María Torres de Valdivia.
Saludos.
Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.
_________________________________________________________________
¿Quieres transformarte en un emoticón de Messenger? Descubre cómo
www.messengernews.com.mx
I was just wondering if anyone out there has these two films....the numbers are.
639969 and 639964.
Hola a todos. Aprovechando la discusión en torno del apellido Romo de Vivar, quiero exponer la inquietud que alguien me planteó acerca de que algunos ascendientes fueron caballeros templarios. En lo personal, desconozco que tan cierto sea esto o no.
Bill
I would like to thank you for this information also, my wife descends from
this family.
George Fulton
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Hello My name is Erica I am trying to find any information on the following individuals if anyone has more information I would greatly appreciate it! If not I hope this information helps you. I do have more information on other siblings/children but I am still sorting through it to check it's accuracy this is just a direct line of my lineage.
Hello Erica,
I found some discrepancies in your Romo de Vivar line. Here is what I have
reconstructed from my files:
1. Diego Romo de Vivar
Birth: abt. 1562
Marriage: Catalina Pérez
Fathered: 2. Diego Romo de Vivar
Death: after 1589
2. Diego Romo de Vivar
Birth: 1589
Baptism: 12 Mar 1589 in Rielves, Toledo, Spain
Marriage: Maria Rangel de Viezma y Rosales, aka María Rangel Peguero
Fathered: 3. Diego Romo de Vivar
Death Diego Romo: after 1658
Death María Rangel: 19 June 1659 in Aguascalientes México
3. Capitán Pedro Romo de Vivar
Birth: About 1634 Aguascalientes, México
Marriage: 05 May 1658 Lorenza de Tiscareño (aka Lorenza Ruiz de Esparza)
at Hda. de San Bartolomé, Aguascalientes, México
Fathered: 4. Nicolas Romo de Vivar
Death: after 1692
Death Lorenza de Tiscareño: 14 Feb 1692 Aguascalientes, México
4. Capitán Nicolás Romo De Vivar
Birth: about 1664 in Aguascalientes, México
Marriage: 12 February 1684 in
Hi Bill,
Wow Thank you so much! Thank you for filling in the blanks! I knew I knew Pedro's Wife lorenza Had to be a tiscareno because I have found several things stating that five children of Diego Romo de vivar married five children of the Tiscareno family. I was wondering where you got your information. This gives me alot more leads.
Some intresting info I have come across
it was a posting of a women named Connie Garcia Dominguez
a Book by Mariano Gonzalez-Leal, called "Estudio Historico-Genealogico sobre la Familia Guerra", discusses the arrival of the Romo de Vivar line to the Aguascalientes/Jalisco area. There's an appendix in this book on the Romo de Vivar family, where he delineates the lines extending from Diego Romo de Vivar - specifically, those of Diego's son Pedro.
With regard to this Diego, who married Maria Rangel, Gonzalez-Leal write that he was born in 1589 in Rielves, Espana, was a Captain who arrived in the north of Mexico & was at one time "Teniente de
Hi Erica,
My information about the Romo de Vivar family comes from various sources including genealogy and history books, church and civil records and information posted online. Most of the church and civil records include baptisms, marriage dispensations, padrones parroquiales, final wills and testaments, land grants, land titles, deaths, burials, etc. etc. The Catholic Church has done an excellent job keeping records since the early 1600s. I occasionally use information posted online, but only as reference. Too many errors and misleading info. is posted every day, some of which has NOT been checked or verified against the actual sources. If not caught early, these errors can be devastating and cause many hours of hard work to go to waste. Life is too short to waste valuable time.
My research began a few years ago when I decided to find my Mexican roots. Pretty soon I found myself engaged in an all-out effort to find the genealogy of many early settlers of Aguascalientes and
fortunately but unfortunately only one library comes up as owning the
book in the US. You can contact them at (210) 207-2500 or
http://www.sanantonio.gov/Library/ to see if they allow ILL on this book:
Libraries with Item: "Estudio histórico-genealó..."( Record for Item |
Get This Item )
Location Library Code
US,TX SAN ANTONIO PUB LIBR SAP
Title: Estudio histórico-genealógico sobre la familia Guerra de las
montañas de Asturias y Santander, ramas de la Nueva Galicia :
con un apéndice sobre la familia Romo de Vivar /
Author(s): González-Leal, Mariano.
Publication: Santa Fe de Guanajuato, [México] : [s.n.] : printer,
Universidad de Guanajuato,
Year: 1982
Description: 127 p. : ill. ; 21 cm.
Language: Spanish
SUBJECT(S)
Descriptor: Spaniards -- Mexico -- Nueva Galicia -- Genealogy.
Españoles -- México -- Nueva Galicia -- Genealogía.
Named Person: Guerra family.
Romo de Vivar family.
Geographic: Nueva Galicia (Mexico) -- Genealogy
Bill,
Thank you, I am confidant in your research I was just curious if you knew of any more leads.
I happen to be LDS So I know alot about the information there. You said you go to the FHC Have you registered on the new family search? If not you definatly should, That is where most of my information is from, My Mother in Law is in charge of the FHC In south Houston.
I would love to take a trip down into Mexico That must be really neat to actually see where your ancestors are from. As for the book, looks like Joseph took care of finding it I have not been able to physically get a hold of it but I am close enough to San Antonio that I would be able to make a trip there, When I do I will definatly see if I can either photo copy info or I will just take lots of notes.
Thank you again!
~Erica
________________________________
From: Joseph Puentes
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org; Bill Figueroa
Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 9:51:23 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Romo De
Erica,
Yes, I am registered to use the new Pilot FamilySearch site, but even though
I have found very useful information there, I have also found many errors.
Some involve entire batches of data, indicating that the person transcribing
the records was not paying attention and his/her data was not checked by
another person. As you know, it becomes very difficult to correct errors
once they get into the system. I also found out that it takes time to get a
response from Salt Lake City. A couple of months ago I sent a letter to the
LDS Library reporting some anomalies, but so far I have not heard a word
from them. The information I sent included photographs of actual records
plus other supporting documentation. The errors reported are for records
from Aguascalientes, already a large city by 1720, confused with records
from La Cieneguilla, a farming area some fifteen miles SW of Aguascalientes.
La Cieneguilla had a population of only a few hundred people and was owned
and operated by
Hi Bill,
So true, so true...LDS has many errors, and there seems to be no way to
correct them. An example is the data they have on my great grand mother. I
had the information on one of my family trees in 1998, (do not know how it
became public) without verification, I did the verification in 2002 for all
my great grands, got it right, and it is still there......my errors are on
their site......
Thanks!
Phyls
PS...Is there any way to get my old, and I mean really old trees - dating
back to the late 90's off of Rootswebs.com? I have tried emailing them etc,
nothing seems to work, those old email addresses and erroneous data is still
there!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Figueroa"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 1:19 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Romo De Vivar Aguascalientes
Erica,
Yes, I am registered to use the new Pilot FamilySearch site, but even though
I have found very useful information there, I have also found many errors.
Some involve
I have just made the connection to the Diego Romo de Vivar family of Aguascalientes. As part of my research I looked for him in the Pasajer]os a Indias (at PARES: Portal de Achivos Españoles). I did not find him, but the search turned up several other Romo's but the most interesting were Licenciado Luis Romo and Diego Romo.
For Luis Romo it says:
El Licenciado Luis Romo, natural de Rielves (en la información pone natural de Allende Vacas), soltero, hijo de Juan Romo y de Ana Dias de Aguero, al Perú, Information y licencia en CONTRATACION, 5234B, N, 1, R.29. The record is dated Dec 17, 1591.
For Diego Romo is says:
Diego Romo, natural de Rielves (en la información pone Illán de Vacas), soltero, hijo de Juan Romo y Ana Diaz (de Aguero), al Perú como criado del licenciado Luis Romo. Información y licencia en CONTRATACION, 5234B, N.1, R.30. The reocrd is also dated Dec. 17, 1591.
Diego Romo de Vivar who came to Nueva España was born in 12 Mar 1588/89, in Rielves (source: Connie
George,
I have seen many people listed in Pasajeros a Indias, with the city where
they are from inadvertently recorded as the last name of the individual. Try
looking for the first name with the city as the last name. You might get
some hits that way. You might also want to do a search in that archive with
the name of the city only and then lastly, just try some variations with the
surname and city to see what comes up.
Another thing that you need to be aware of when searching Pares or
other databases is that, more often than not, the searches are exact. So any
variation in the name will not show up.
For instance, if you type Jerez in Pares you will get many results, but if
you type Xerez or Jeres you will only get a few hits. All the hits might be
relevant to the place or name of interest.
Good luck!
I would not doubt that all these Romo are related, Rielves is just a small pueblo in Spain, prob. some uncles or distant cousins. I also come from the Romo de Vivar several times. -Daniel Camino
_________________________________________________________________
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Just wanted to add a note to this thread. In the Retonos de Espana en la Nueva Galicia page 328 it shows a pedigree tree where of many names it states the following:
Cap. Diego ROMO DE VIVAR , Tte. de Gob. del Parral, pacificador de los indios mansos. N, Rielves 12_III_1589 + Sta. Ma. del Rio Florido (Chih)1640
Does this mean that Diego ROMO DE VIVAR died in Sta. Ma. del Rio Florido (Chih) in 1640?
And why "pacificador de los indios mansos?" Do tame indians need to be pacified???
If that's the case then:
This is the Diego ROMO DE VIVAR married to Maria RANGEL +Ags. 1659
Lope RUIZ DE ESPARZA Y DIEZ DE EGUINOA +born in Pamplona died in Ags 14 SEP 1651 married Francisca GABAI + 30 MAR 1652
Luis
Capitan Diego Romo de Vivar was a member of the inquisition
he had family in chihuahua I believe the Romo de VERA family was related to him
the vera came from a wife and was not a corruption of vivar
Ricci
________________________________
From: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org on behalf of Xayme
Sent: Sun 3/22/2009 1:45 PM
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Romo De Vivar Aguascalientes
Just wanted to add a note to this thread. In the Retonos de Espana en la Nueva Galicia page 328 it shows a pedigree tree where of many names it states the following:
Cap. Diego ROMO DE VIVAR , Tte. de Gob. del Parral, pacificador de los indios mansos. N, Rielves 12_III_1589 + Sta. Ma. del Rio Florido (Chih)1640
Does this mean that Diego ROMO DE VIVAR died in Sta. Ma. del Rio Florido (Chih) in 1640?
And why "pacificador de los indios mansos?" Do tame indians need to be pacified???
If that's the case then:
This is the Diego ROMO DE VIVAR married to Maria
Luis,
Diego Romo de Vivar was still alive a year before his wife died on 19 Jun 1659. On 5 May 1658 Capt. Diego Romo de Vivar and María Rangel were "padrinos" at the wedding of their sons Juan and Pedro Romo de Vivar, who married two Tiscareño girls, María and Lorenza, in a double ceremony in Aguascalientes. His son Capt. Juan Romo de Vivar, Justicia Mayor de Aguascalientes, and his wife María Tiscareño, are my 8th great grandparents. The marriage record reads as follows:
"El 5 de mayo de 1658 en la capilla de Luys Tiscareño casé y velé a Juan Romo de Vivar con María de Tiscareño, y a Pedro Romo de Vivar con Lorenza de Esparza [Lorenza de Tiscareño] siendo padrinos de Juan Romo, Juan de Tiscareño y Isabel Romo su muger, y de Pedro Romo el Capitán Diego Romo de Vivar y María Rangel su muger. Fueron testigos el sargento Don Alonso Ramírez de Prado, Alcalde Mayor de esta villa, y Don Lorenzo Ramírez de Prado."
Here is some additional information from "Familia Romo de Vivar: Una
Juan ROMO DE VIVAR is the husband of my 8x great-grandmother.
Pedro ROMO DE VIVAR is the husband of my 8x great-aunt
I suspect that same ROMO line marries into the JAIME line further on down the line too.
Would you happen to know how is this Pedro ROMO related to:
Pedro Jesus ROMO DE VIVAR m. Maria Guadalupe CASTANEDA JAIME
31 Mar 1786 in San Jose de Gracia, Rincon de Romos, AGS, MX?
Luis TISCARENO DE MOLINA Y MARQUEZ is my 9x great-grandfather
So you're saying that Alférez Real Juan RANGEL DE VIEZMA is actually Juan RANGEL PEGUERO?
And if so, do I understand correctly that he is the father of:
Ignacio RANGEL DE VIEZMA m. Francisca CONTRERAS
who is the father of:
Diego RANGEL DE VIEZMA m. Maria Nicolasa ALCARAZ VILLAREAL
who was the father of:
Dr. Francisco Mariano RANGEL ALCARAZ?
Luis,
If Juan ROMO DE VIVAR is the husband of your 8x great-grandmother, then Juan is your 8x great-grandfather, right? jejeje
I have Pedro Jose ROMO DE VIVAR (not Pedro Jesus) who married Maria Guadalupe CASTANEDA 21 Mar 1786 in Rincon de Romos (ayuda de Parroquia de San Jose de Gracia) as the second great-grandson of Diego Romo de Vivar. The connections are as follows:
*Person: Pedro Jose ROMO DE VIVAR married to Maria Guadalupe CASTANEDA
Parents: Joseph Andrés ROMO DE VIVAR and Maria Margarita MARTIN DE SOTOMAYOR
Paternal grandparents: Nicolas ROMO DE VIVAR and MARIA DE VILLALOBOS
Paternal great-grandparents: Pedro ROMO DE VIVAR and LORENZA TISCARENO
*Paternal 2x great-grandparents: Diego ROMO DE VIVAR and MARIA RANGEL DE VIEZMA Y ROSALES
Paternal 3x great-grandparents: Diego ROMO DE VIVAR and CATALINA PEREZ
I will answer your other questions tomorrow. It is close to midnight in Dallas and I've been working out. Will talk to you in the morning.
Bill Figueroa
Thanks Bill,
I knew there had to be another connection somewhere... Would you send me the dates resources on those? Also, does your ROMO line happen to go down to Miguel Santos ROMO m. Maria OCHOA?
And for the record there are two Juan ROMO DE VIVARs right? Juan ROMO DE VIVAR RANGEL and Juan ROMO DE VIVAR TISCARENO?
And about Juan ROMO DE VIVAR being the husband of my 8x great-grandmother, then Juan being 8x great-grandfather. I thought that was the case but that's how my FTW software calculated it which I thought was pretty weird... LOL
Thanks again,
Luis
Luis,
This is in answer some of your questions:
1) My line does NOT go Miguel Santos ROMO who married Maria OCHOA. I have no information on this couple.
2) I'll look up the resources you requested and send them via separate email within the next couple of days.
3) As far as I know, Juan ROMO DE VIVAR RANGEL and Maria TISCARENO did not have a son named Juan. There was a Juan ROMO DE VIVAR TISCARENO, the son Pedro ROMO DE VIVAR and Lorenza TISCARENO. I have no information about him, other than he probably died young. I have several Juan ROMO VIVARs in my database. Which one did you have in mind?
Bill
Luis,
Here is some additional info. about the RANGEL families of Nueva Galicia:
The Alférez Real Juan RANGEL DE VIEZMA, who married María ROSALES, was also known as Juan RANGEL PEGUERO. He was the son of Alonso RANGEL PEGUERO, Conquistador, and Luisa VELASQUEZ DE SALAZAR. My good friend Felipe REYES ROMO gave me the following information about Juan RANGEL PEGUERO:
1583. Se otorga en la Cd. de México un poder de Juan Rangel a Marcos de Biesma.
1584. Merced de la Real Audiencia, año de 1584, a Juan Rangel Peguero de un sitio de estancia para ganado menor en términos de Pachuca, cerca de los de Tilquautla, con la posesión que tomó, y la información que dio doña Francisca Velásquez de Salazar de como le pertenecía a ella y a sus hijos.
1584. Merced de tierras en favor de Juan Rangel Pegueros compartiéndola con Rodrigo Yáñez.
The Alférez Real Juan RANGEL DE VIEZMA and María ROSALES were the parents of:
1. Ignacio RANGEL DE VIEZMA m. Francisca CONTRERAS. Their son Diego
Hi Bill:
I know your message was addressed to Erica but I read it too and I have a
question about it for you:
Under #2 Diego Romo de Vivar , you have that he fathered: #3 Diego Romo de
Vivar. but for #3 you list Capitan Pedro Romo de Vivar instead of "Diego".
Which is right? or was Capitan Pedro Romo de Vivar also named Diego?
Am I missing something here?...
Thank you
John Gonzalez
========================================================================================
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Figueroa"
To:
Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 19:16
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Romo De Vivar Aguascalientes
Hello Erica,
I found some discrepancies in your Romo de Vivar line. Here is what I have
reconstructed from my files:
1. Diego Romo de Vivar
Birth: abt. 1562
Marriage: Catalina Pérez
Fathered: 2. Diego Romo de Vivar
Death: after 1589
2. Diego Romo de Vivar
Birth: 1589
Baptism: 12 Mar 1589 in Rielves, Toledo, Spain
Marriage
HI John Gonzalez,
I can answer this for you Pedro was one of 8 siblings in which he had a brother named Deigo, Bill used this outline from me in which I once had that Pedro and Diego where the same person but i have since found they are brothers I have more information if you would like! You can see the last email I sent to bill about the information.
Hope this answers your question.
Thank you,
Erica
________________________________
From: John Gonzalez 1gnzlz@verizon.net>
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org; Bill Figueroa
Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 10:31:52 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Romo De Vivar Aguascalientes
Hi Bill:
I know your message was addressed to Erica but I read it too and I have a question about it for you:
Under #2 Diego Romo de Vivar , you have that he fathered: #3 Diego Romo de Vivar. but for #3 you list Capitan Pedro Romo de Vivar instead of "Diego". Which is right? or was Capitan Pedro Romo de Vivar also named Diego?
Am I missing something here
Hi Erica:
Thank you for taking the time to get me straightened out about this family.
I too descend from the "Romo de Vivar" line.
Thank you for offering more information. Do you have any "Romo" or "Romo
de Vivar" from Santa Ana or Jalostotitlan?
Thank you.
John Gonzalez
1gnzlz@verizon.net
----- Original Message -----
From: "erica Peacock"
To:
Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 08:45
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Romo De Vivar Aguascalientes
HI John Gonzalez,
I can answer this for you Pedro was one of 8 siblings in which he had a
brother named Deigo, Bill used this outline from me in which I once had that
Pedro and Diego where the same person but i have since found they are
brothers I have more information if you would like! You can see the last
email I sent to bill about the information.
Hope this answers your question.
Thank you,
Erica
John,
Diego Romo de Vivar and María Rangel had the following children:
1.. Joseph Romo de Vivar, baptized 30 Jun 1625 at the Church of San Felipe Apóstol, Guanajuato. In 1644 Joseph married Juana Solís de Calahorra in Chihuahua. The following information extracted by Manuel Rosales, Cronista de Camargo, was published in the "Book of Marriages, Presidio de Conchos".
In 1644 in the Presidio de Conchos, Chihuahua, were married Joseph Romo de Vivar Rangel, the son of Capitán Diego Romo de Vivar and María Rangel, and Juana de Solís Calahorra, the daughter of Capitán Juan de Solís and María de Calahorra
Joseph Romo de Vivar and Juana Solís had a son Gerónimo Romo de Vivar who married Margarita de Tiscareño, daughter of Luis Tiscareño de Molina and Lorenza Ruiz de Esparza.
2.. Diego Romo de Vivar, born ca.1630 in México City, married Luisa de los Reyes (full name María Luisa de los Angeles de los Reyes).
3.. Capt. Juan Romo de Vivar, born ca. 1632, married María de
Hi Bill,
Hope this helps, I got this info from Ancestry.com
Name: Antonia Romo De Vivar Y De Rangel
Birth: Abt 1636 - Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, Mexico
Death: Abt 1672 - Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, Mexico
Parents: Diego Romo De Vivar Y Perez, Maria De Rangel Y Pegüero
I have still not found any information on Maria except that she exsisted.
I have a question in regard to
Nicolas Romo de Vivar
Born 11 Sep.1656 in Aguascalientes Mexico
married to Maria Villalobos/ marianna villalobs spelling varies*
Death 8 dec 1714 el sagrario, Aguascalientes ,Mexico
I keep finding him as the son of both Pedro Romo De Vivar & lorenza Tiscareno and Diego Romo De Vivar & Luisa De los Reyes y Angeles I know one has to be wrong but i haven't been able to figure it out. Do you know for sure who the correct parents are?
Thank you,
Erica
John,
Diego Romo de Vivar and María Rangel had the following children:
1.. Joseph Romo de Vivar, baptized 30 Jun 1625 at the Church
Erica,
This is the case of two first cousins with the same name (Nicolás Romo de Vivar) marrying two first cousins with similar names (Mariana and María de Villalobos). The first married Mariana de Villalobos, daughter of Nicolás de Villalobos and Theresa Carrillo de Sandi, residents of Teocaltiche, and the second María de Villalobos, daughter of Salvador de Villalobos and Francisca Martín del Campo, from San Juan de los Lagos, Teocaltiche and Aguascalientes.
1.. Nicolás Romo de Vivar, baptized 11 Sep 1656 at Parroquia de la Asunción de Aguascalientes, was the son of Diego Romo de Vivar and María Luisa de los Angeles de los Reyes. He married Mariana de Villalobos 14 Jan 1686 at the Church of Nuestra Señora de los Dolores, Teocaltiche, Jalisco.
2.. Nicolás Romo de Vivar, born ca. 1664 (have not found his baptism) was the son of Capt. Pedro Romo de Vivar and Lorenza de Tiscareño (aka Lorenza Ruiz de Esparza). He married María de Villalobos (aka María López de la Cruz) 12 Feb
Hola Pariente , I went to #6 below -Francisco Romo de Vivar , I went to WWW.familysearch.org. trying to see who was Lorenza Delgado Tiscareno(Ruiz de Esparza) parents. This site tells me that Luis Tiscareno and Lorenza Ruiz de Esparza are her parents. Is this another error on this site and if so who were her parents?
thanks for your time
tu primo
Ronnie Reynoso
From: bill_figueroa@usa.net> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org> Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 11:01:28 -0600> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Romo De Vivar Aguascalientes> > John,> > Diego Romo de Vivar and María Rangel had the following children:> > 1.. Joseph Romo de Vivar, baptized 30 Jun 1625 at the Church of San Felipe Apóstol, Guanajuato. In 1644 Joseph married Juana Solís de Calahorra in Chihuahua. The following information extracted by Manuel Rosales, Cronista de Camargo, was published in the "Book of Marriages, Presidio de Conchos". > > In 1644 in the Presidio de Conchos, Chihuahua, were married Joseph Romo de Vivar Rangel
Hey Ronnie,
Let me see if I can explain this without making it too confusing.
Luis Tiscareño de Molina and Lorenza Ruiz de Esparza had a daughter named
Lorenza Tiscareño, also known as Lorenza Ruiz de Esparza (like her mother).
This Lorenza married Capt. Pedro Romo de Vivar.
Luis and Lorenza also had a daughter named Francisca who went by the name
Francisca Gabai (instead of Francisca Tiscareño). She was named after her
grandmother Francisca Gabai de Moctezuma. There were no rules to name
children like we have today, so sometimes people gave their children the
name of a beloved grandfather or grandmother, surname included.
This Francisca Gabai, the daughter of Luis Tiscareño de Molina and Lorenza
Ruiz de Esparza, married Joseph Delgado on 30 Aug 1644 at the Parroquia de
la Asunción in Aguascalientes. They had several children and one of them
was also named Lorenza. I have seen her name written Lorenza Delgado Gabai,
Lorenza Delgado Tiscareño and Lorenza Ruiz de Esparza. I
hola,
Acabo de conseguir la partida de matrimonio de Jose Maria Felix Vergara
Ynojosa con Pilar Rodriguez Brizuela en Ciudad Guzman (Zapotlan) Jalisco,
ahi esta asentado que Pilar Rodriguez Brizuela es de Tecalitlan nacida
ayuda ..Arias-Spinola-Pachuca, Reynoso-Maciel DistritoFederal, G