Hello Group,
I'm been researching the Gonzalez line and I have hit a wall in Jalpa. I am stuck in my inability to find information for Jose Maria Gonzalez who married Julia Casillas. I have found two of his three of his children, Simon, Maria, and Lucas. Lucas is my direct descendant. Based on a marriage bann and marriage for Simon in Teul in 1865, I suspect that Jose Maria married Julia around 1830 (Simon was 35 at his marriage and was from Jalpa). Maria's wedding in 1869 took place in El Plateado (no age given for her--her husband was about 26) and she was from La Villita (between Jalpa and Huanusco). However, I've looked at the Jalpa weddings for 1827-1838 and the Tabasco film for this time period, and I didn't find Jose Maria's or Julia's wedding.
I also looked at Tabasco's bautismos for 1826-1838 and haven't found any baptisms for Simon his brothers and sisters. I've already ordered the film for the next decade to see if I can find Lucas' or Maria's (or other's) baptism record. But so far, I haven't found ANY baptisms for Jalpa in the Tabasco records.
I'm wondering where else I may find baptisms for people from Jalpa?
Also I am going to La Villita in December and was going to try to see the records of the churches in Jalpa and La Villita. Have any of you had success getting access to the books? Any suggestions for how to talk to the priests?
As a side note, I have found some interesting things about my direct ancestor's, Simon, family troubles. He married Valeriana Gonzales (no relation) in 1865, and she was supposedly a virgin "celibe", but there are two records of children born before the wedding, one of which may have been by another man. A few years later though she had several children by other men. The baptisms have the grandparents' info so i know it's the "same" Valeriana.
At first I suspected Simon might have died, but then I found that there were a few other Simon Gonzales from Teul de Gonzalez who had children from different women. Unfortunately, there was no info on the paternal grandparents or age that would help confirm whether these were the same Simons. if the are the same, this meant that Valeriana and Simon must have a very spicy relationship, one worthy of a few mariachi songs or a soap opera!
Arturo
However, I wanted to share my experience, and perhaps it may be something else for you to explore:My father was born (1912) at Hacienda del Astillero. The church for that Hacienda is called, if I recall correctly, Nuestra Senora, Maria de Los Refugios. An Image can be seen here:http://valparaisozac.webcindario.com/fotovalpa.html#(see under haciendas [not iglesias]- last photo on right).His baptismal record is held at La Purisima church in Valparaiso, Zac., which is the Jurisdictional center (akin to the county seat) - also where civil records for the area would be found.The records for many ranchos in the areas surrounding Valparaiso are found in Valparaiso. It may be that the records you seek are in a larger nearby town.
Natalie
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Arturo,
I found a Ma. Trinidad Gonzalez Casillas, daughter of Jose Maria Gonzalez and Julia Casillas in the Jalpa Matrimonios 1827-1838 files, image #89, via the Mormon Church beta search records.
Ma. Trinidad was born in La Villita and married Fermin Pereira Baldovinos (Fermin Pereida Valdovinos) from Ojo de Agua on 9/19/1831.
Assuming Ma. Trinidad was approximately 20 years old when she married, she would be born about 1811. This means that you will not find Jose Maria Gonzalez and Julia Casillas in the Jalpa Matrimonio 1827-1838 files.
----- Original Message -----
From: agon123@gmail.com
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Saturday, October 30, 2010 7:20:52 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Brick wall in Jalpa
Hello Group,
I'm been researching the Gonzalez line and I have hit a wall in Jalpa. I am stuck in my inability to find information for Jose Maria Gonzalez who married Julia Casillas. I have found two of his three of his children, Simon, Maria, and
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Look in Nochistlan, Zac. Sometimes they have records in Nochistlan for La
Villita, Jalpa, Huanusco and other surrounding Puestos, Ranchos, Pueblos or
Ciudades.
Alicia
________________________________
From: "rubenhernandez57@comcast.net"
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Sun, October 31, 2010 10:17:09 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Brick wall in Jalpa
Arturo,
I found a Ma. Trinidad Gonzalez Casillas, daughter of Jose Maria Gonzalez and
Julia Casillas in the Jalpa Matrimonios 1827-1838 files, image #89, via the
Mormon Church beta search records.
Ma. Trinidad was born in La Villita and married Fermin Pereira Baldovinos
(Fermin Pereida Valdovinos) from Ojo de Agua on 9/19/1831.
Assuming Ma. Trinidad was approximately 20 years old when she married, she would
be born about 1811. This means that you will not find Jose Maria Gonzalez and
Julia Casillas in the Jalpa Matrimonio 1827-1838 files.
----- Original Message -----
From: agon123@gmail.com
To
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Arturo, Hola en el siguiente registro encuentras a un Lucas en su matrimonio..sé que no es tu Lucas.. pero siendo su contemporáneo del mismo pueblo.. yo no lo descartaría del todo.. porque en las familias se repetían mucho los nombres y los Lucas no son tan comunes, así que aunque no fuese TU Lucas posiblemente, Tranquilino si pudiese ser hermano o su primo.. de tu José Maria Gonzalez.. luego checando aunque te falte una rama.. puedes llegar al tronco común de los Gonzalez de Teúl.. yo he llegado a registros por medio de las cuñadas...pues resulta que a veces un fulanito se casó un una de zacatecas y se fué de su lugar de origen al lugar de origen de la novia, averiguando en su acta de matrimonio di con el pueblo y con los demás hijos.. es comun que si un hermano se casa en una ciudad diferente y se queda ahi.. lo alcancen más hermanos.. éste Lucas pudo ser primo del tuyo... Jose María Gonzalez sólo se casó con Julia Casillas? no tuvo primeros o segundos matrimonios? I will try to
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si encuentras registros de Tequila me avisas que yo ando buscando a mi bisabuelo Eh!!!
About this Collection
Name
Manuela Gonzales
Gender
Female
Baptism/Christening Date
19 Jun 1866
Baptism/Christening Place
Tequila, Jalisco, Mexico
Birth Date
Birthplace
Death Date
Name Note
Race
Father's Name
Simon Gonzales
Father's Birthplace
Father's Age
Mother's Name
Valeriana Gonzales
Mother's Birthplace
Mother's Age
Paternal Grandfather's Name
Paternal Grandmother's Name
Maternal Grandfather's Name
Maternal Grandmother's name
Indexing Project (Batch) Number
I06837-7
System Origin
Mexico-EASy
Source Film Number
227333
Reference Number
p98
Image is not available online
Search Collection
About this Collection
Name
Ygnacia Gonzales Gonzales
Gender
Female
Baptism/Christening Date
16 Sep 1869
Baptism/Christening Place
TEUL DE GONZALEZ ORTEGA,ZACATECAS,MEXICO
Birth Date
23 Aug 1869
Birthplace
Death Date
Name Note
Race
Father's Name
Simon
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Marriages Mecatabasco, ,Zacatecas M601215 film 1094875
baptisms teul, C617045,6,7,4,8,3...film 1164320,1,2,3,4,...
http://tabascozacatecasmx.com/historia.aspx
RESEÑA HISTÓRICA
En el año 1520 esta región estuvo habitada por grupos nómadas que comían raíces, frutas silvestres, además cazaban venados, liebres y aves. Perteneció a la Gran Caxcana, siendo poblada por un grupo chichimeca de caxcanes. Existen vestigios de grupos sedentarios indígenas, ya que se han encontrado hachas de piedra, puntas de flecha de obsidiana y pedernal, huilanches y figuras de barro cocido.
Después de consumada la conquista de Tenochtitlán, Hernán Cortés envió a varios de sus lugartenientes a explorar el territorio donde se encuentra este municipio. Fue Nuño Beltrán de Guzmán quien emprendió la exploración y conquista en 1529. Posteriormente ante los excesivos tributos que les exigían los colonizadores los caxcanes se sublevaron refugiándose en el Cerro del Mixtón. Es hasta 1542 cuando llegan los
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As far as checking the records at the church in Jalpa, just from my own
experience. When we went and asked to see their books, they showed us the oldest
book that they had, it was dated 1919. The Priest came out a little up set and
ask where we had gotten a copy of our records that we showed them, that we had
on us that was dated 1891. The church had a fire some time back and according to
him their records were burned. Don't know how LDS has gotten a hold of the
images of any records! But it's awesome.
Wish you success
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I am of the understanding that each parish made a copy of their records and they
were sent to the main church and that's where LDS went to film them. They did
not go to each parish, they filmed the copies so they were safe from the
distruction smaller churchs faced.
am I correct in this information?
Linda in Marietta
________________________________
From: y b
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Sat, October 30, 2010 10:30:07 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Brick wall in Jalpa
As far as checking the records at the church in Jalpa, just from my own
experience. When we went and asked to see their books, they showed us the oldest
book that they had, it was dated 1919. The Priest came out a little up set and
ask where we had gotten a copy of our records that we showed them, that we had
on us that was dated 1891. The church had a fire some time back and according to
him their records were burned. Don't know how LDS has gotten a hold of the
images of any records! But
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Linda,
You're mostly correct, they went to the Head of the Archdiocese. I believe Jalpa
falls under the jurisdiction of Zacatecas, Zacatecas, but it could have been
Guadalajara.
Alicia,
San Jose, Calif
________________________________
From: Erlinda Castanon-Long
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Sun, October 31, 2010 6:54:39 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Brick wall in Jalpa
I am of the understanding that each parish made a copy of their records and they
were sent to the main church and that's where LDS went to film them. They did
not go to each parish, they filmed the copies so they were safe from the
distruction smaller churchs faced.
am I correct in this information?
Linda in Marietta
________________________________
From: y b
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Sat, October 30, 2010 10:30:07 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Brick wall in Jalpa
As far as checking the records at the church in Jalpa, just from my own
experience. When we went and
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According to some documents I've found online from the Archdiocese of Zacatecas, La Villita's church was in existence by the late 1800s. But there are no LDS films for this rancho, so I wonder if the older books may have been sent along to Zacatecas but not filmed?
I'm now working on a different timeline for finding Jose Maria Gonzalez and Julia Casillas since Ruben spotted a wedding entry for their daughter Maria Trinidad in 1831 in the Jalpa 1827-1838 images. Plus, as Leticia mentioned, it's possible that I may find Jose Maria's town by looking for relatives of his that also named their children Lucas.
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I've seen most of the films available for Jalpa, Zacatecas and they have included many individuals who were born, baptized, married and died in La Villita.
----- Original Message -----
From: agon123@gmail.com
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Monday, November 1, 2010 6:51:06 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Brick wall in Jalpa
According to some documents I've found online from the Archdiocese of Zacatecas, La Villita's church was in existence by the late 1800s. But there are no LDS films for this rancho, so I wonder if the older books may have been sent along to Zacatecas but not filmed?
I'm now working on a different timeline for finding Jose Maria Gonzalez and Julia Casillas since Ruben spotted a wedding entry for their daughter Maria Trinidad in 1831 in the Jalpa 1827-1838 images. Plus, as Leticia mentioned, it's possible that I may find Jose Maria's town by looking for relatives of his that also named their children Lucas.
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You can also try places like Tabasco, Tlatenango, Calvillo, Juchipila, Nochistlan. This area is known
as the valle de Huejucar mostly in and out of Calvillo, Ags. There is lots of movement and travel
in and out of this area where people got baptized, married, and died.
Daniel
> Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2010 03:22:07 +0000
> From: rubenhernandez57@comcast.net
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Brick wall in Jalpa
>
>
>
> I've seen most of the films available for Jalpa, Zacatecas and they have included many individuals who were born, baptized, married and died in La Villita.
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: agon123@gmail.com
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Sent: Monday, November 1, 2010 6:51:06 AM
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Brick wall in Jalpa
>
> According to some documents I've found online from the Archdiocese of Zacatecas, La Villita's church was in existence by the late 1800s. But there are no LDS films
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Linda, and everyone else,
So from what I read, it seems that any and all records from Jalpa, La Villita, etc., should've been sent on to Zacatecas. The reason I had asked in the first place is because I had been told that the parish in La Villita had been active and presumably was baptizing and marrying folks during the late 1800s/early 1900s. Yet there are no films for the parish. I assume that means that either no records were sent or that they weren't filmed.
As I've searched in Tabasco, I've not found more than a 1 or 2 references to La Villita. And I haven't found any references for some of the online images for Teul, Mezquital del Oro, Calvillo, that I've looked through. But I'll keep looking. As for Nochistlan, I'll take a look there for possible relatives. But I also found another "La Villita" in Nochistlan's jurisdiction (http://mexico.pueblosamerica.com/i/la-villita-15/) that I hope wasn't confusing people with "La Villita" in Jalpa's jurisdiction (http://mexico
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Brick wall in Jalpa