The line I am researching is documented through Ana Francisca Gabadí (marriage of her daughter Lorensa in 1623 and birth of her son Bernabé in 1618) or Gabay (from her burial record in 1652).
I have gone back and read the threads on the topic of Martín Navarro and Petronila de Moctezuma (beginning about 2006), and I understand that there is the widespread supposition that Ana Francisca is a daughter of Martín and Petronila. My question is this: has there been anything definitive since then (the 2006 and later threads) to establish proof of this connection?
I should point out that, while it would be fascinating to establish a connection to Moctezuma II, that is an historical curiosity; my purpose is to follow the genealogical leads wherever they go. I am currently reading Chipman's "Moctezuma's Children", which I purchased online from the UT Press—on-demand printing, quick service, and not expensive.
Prospero Año Nuevo / Happy New Year to all,
Lawrence Bouett
Hi Lawrence
I was skimming through one of the sources for which I provided a link in my previous comment (the description of Martin Cortes conspiracy) and came across the following:
(there are a lot of mistakes because its an old text someone scanned in)
____
11 de Abril. La audiencia manda soltar en fiado á Diego
Arias, que está preso en las casas del tesorero D. Hernando de
Portugal, por los sesenta dias primeros siguientes.
30 de Mayo. A petición del procurador de Diego Arias, se le
proroga por sesenta dias mas la soltura en fiado, para que acabe
de convalecer de sus enfermedades en Michoacán, donde está con
su muger e hijos.
30 de Julio. Segunda próroga por otros sesenta dias en favor
de Diego Arias.
____
It mentions that his wife (by that time - 1566 - he is married to Dona Maria Tramuel, mentioned earlier in the text) and his children are in Michoacan.
If he lived there with his second wife, perhaps he also lived there with his first wife, Leonor? Earlier in
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Carlos Peredo
Hello everybody !
I just found a document that promises to be very interesting but that is very hard to read, so I´m here begging for help !!!
The document is from around 1560 and is located in the Arquidiocesis of Morelia , Mexico, Michoacan Catholic Church Records 1555-1599; información matrimonial y actas diversas 1555-1599.
It starts :
"Sepan cuantos esta carta vieren, como NOS Diego Arias de Sotelo vecino de la cibdad de ....."
In the end of the 24th and 25th line I can read :
"........e con los pueblos"
" e indios a NOS encomendados......"
There may be some important information about this ancestor of so many "Alteños" so I hope somebody with better skills than mine to read these old characters will give a hand.
I´m really intrigued by the fact tha Don Diego uses the word "NOS" instead of "YO" , I thought that only Bishops used that word to refer to themselves.
I´ll try to read what I can and will post here if I have some succes.
Regards
Carlos A. Peredo
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Carlos Peredo
Here goes the link
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18784-17115-34?cc=1883388&wc…
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Hi carlos
The number 55 appears at the top of the page of image 20 where the document starts. The document ends on image 21 and a new entry starts just below it and continues on image 22 on the left side. On the right side another entry starts and at the top there is the number 56. I am thinking that these numbers refer to the years 1555 and 1556, before he married maria manuel portugal.
I also think it says "vecino de la ciudad de mexico". If so, this is a good lead to where to look for records related to his children with leonor.
Regards,
Denise
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Carlos Peredo
Hello Denise , good morning !
Here I write some of the things I seem to "read" line by line with spaces in the places of words I don´t understand :
"Sepan cuantos estas carta vieren como nos Diego Arias
de Sotelo vecino de la Cibdad d de .....e Juan Pavlo e Antón de
Silva e Domingo de Medina e Gonzalo Gómez (ó Ponce?)vecinos ....
..... de la cibdad de Mechuacan otorgamos ...... ...
por esta presente carta ........ e otorgamos todo cuio poder
cumpliere aser e servicio ..... ...... .... nos avemos e
tenemos ................cunplidamente lo po-
demos e devemos ...... otorgarselo a vos .........
e a Gonzalo Ruíz e a Juan Velazcos de Salazar vezinos de la cib-
dad de Mexico todos ausentes como si fuesedes presentes a vos
en junta e a cada uno de vos .......... especial-
mente ................ fuereles ........................
de los pueblos a nos encomendados .....................
.... de los tributos que nos dan................
panscuaro ...........mechuacan ......"
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Carlos Peredo
Regarding the date I thougth I read and mentioned in my last post, hereby I confirm: it is what is writen because I just saw image 23 and we can see the way they used to write "quinientos" and "cincuenta" and those two "signs" are the same that are used in Diego Arias de Sotelo´s document
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Thanks Carlos for posting what you get from this doc...you are right that it can be a good execise inpaleography. I am looking forward to next weekend when I will have time to compare your transcription with the image, hopefully it will help me improve my skills, as i am still very much a beginner!
Regards,
Denise
Ps looking at records from 1550s mexico city about once a week...came across multiple entries of don fernando portugal as padrino, and one with baltasar sotelo as padrino, probably diego's brother, in the same book where Ana sotelo's baptism was found. But no smoking gun on petronila!
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Hi Lawrence
George is right that the only recent definitive information is the marriage dispensation. He also mentions (in an email in Ancestry.com.au) that in the Codex Chimalpahin there is a reference to children of Diego Sotela and Leonor Valderrama, other than the known ones (mentioned in Chipman's book, which you are reading and which I have also read). Diego was accused and tried and found guilty of conspiring against the Crown. He was banished to a place called Oran in North Africa. His brother was executed. This conspiracy is discussed in Chipman - remember to check the footnotes!
At some point during this controversy or perhaps before it, Leonor must have died, because when Diego was banished, one of the sons took over the encomienda as his inheritance, whereupon the other son sued him. If Petronila was the daughter of Diego and Leonor, let's say the youngest, its not suprising that she is not mentioned in the subsequent lawsuits. If she was born around 1560, she'd have
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Lawrence
Like you, I spent a considerable amount of time looking at this family. I got so frustrated with the lack of sources in all the internet posted genealogies that I was starting to think that Martin Navarro and Petronila de Moctezuma did not exist.
I eventually located a copy of Genealogía de Nochistlán Antiguo Reino de la Nueva Galicia en el Siglo XVII según sus Archivos Parroquiales which has an excerpt from the dispensation requested by Bartholome Rodrigues Baxo (or Bajo). The dispensation request was because of the relationship between his first wife and second wife to be. They both descend from Martin Navarro and Petronila de Moctezuma, but through different daughters.
This document clearly identifies the daughters of Martin and Petronila. Thanks to Claudia Reynoso's (& colleagues'!) work on the Guadalajara dispensations the document is readily locatable. Claudia's index is at http://www.guadalajaradispensas.com/2011/11/1700-1705-fhl-source-film-1…
It is
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(After 2½ years ...) I have read carefully the dispensa requested by Bartholome Rodrígues Baxo for his marriage to Thomasa de la Rosa Ulloa, based upon the 'cuarto grado de afinidad' between Thomasa and Bartholome's first wife, Theresa Ponze. After constructing the lineage given by two of the testigos in the dispensa, it now seems clear that the two daughters of Martín Navarro and Petronila Moctezuma referred to are María and Ana Francisca Gabay. That would certainly seem to establish definitively the connection to the line I am working on (that of Ana Francisca) of Martín Navarro and Petronila de Moctezuma, wouldn't it?
I have three questions about those lines established by the dispensa, however: (1) who is the spouse of María Gabay; (2) who is the 'Juana' referred to in the dispensa, given as the wife of Lorenso Ruís de Esparsa; and finally, (3) who is the apparent daughter of Lorenso Ruís de Esparsa and the above-named Juana who married Nicolás Ponze, father of Bartholome's
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Hello Lawrence,
Maria de Gabai Ruiz de Esparza is married to Nicolas Ulloa they were married c. 1630 in Teocaltiche, Jalisco, Mexico. He is the son of Alonso Ulloa and Juana Munoz de Jerez. Maria was born c. 1613
I descend from Bartholomew Rodriguez Bajo and thomassina de la Rosa Ulloa.
R A Ricci
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Petronila de Moctezuma, Baltasar, Diego, and Gaspar Sotelo