COLIO Y DE LA TORRE, Doña María de
Nieta del conquistador Diego de Colio y de su mujer Catalina de la Torre,
hija a su vez del Lic. Diego Pérez de la Torre.
Pasajeros a Indias de Liébana y sus valles circundantes 1503 - 1790
según la documentación del Archivo General de Indias
José María González-Cotera Guerra
Marzo, 2005
http://www.lieban
Durante muchos años la genealogía de los Llanos de Valdés de Juanactic,
sabían que eran descendientes de Juan José Llanos de Valdés, pensando que
era Juan José de Llanos Y Valdés nació en
Please keep in mind that the Research list
(research@nuestrosranchos.org) is for communication directly related to
our research in Jalisco, Zacatecas, and/or Aguascalientes
There is a lot more flexibility of discussion on the General list
There exists an option for going from individual email to digest email
so your inbox won't get flooded. You can also choose to go to "no mail"
if you want to follow the group discussion online. I would not suggest
"unsubscribing" from any of the lists because then you cannot reply to
any messages that might catch your interest.
The Who We Are thread seems to be appropriately contained on the
"General" list as well as the DNA thread. I'd suggest going to "Digest"
and let me know if you need help doing that.
thanks for bring the subject up. If the group strongly chimes in that
the discussion is inappropriate I'll gladly step in to enforce the
wishes of the many.
joseph
======================
Joseph Puentes
NoMeat@h2opodcast.com
http://h2opodcast.com/vsse.html (Vegan Environmental Solutions Podcast)
http://h2opodcast.com (Environmental Podcast)
http://h2opodcast.blogspot.com (Blog for above)
http://PleaseListenToYourMom.com (Women's Peace Podcast)
http://NuestraFamiliaUnida
Hi Joseph, doing a great job but there is a bit much going on.......what with the who are we, and the DNA, etc....these should be diferent sites(??) maybe......and a translation site for the emails in Spanish...(??) Thanks, Phyls
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph Puentes"
To:
Sent: Sunday, October 07, 2007 5:34 AM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Admin Note: Use of three lists
> Please keep in mind that the Research list
> (research@nuestrosranchos.org) is for communication directly related to
> our research in Jalisco, Zacatecas, and/or Aguascalientes
>
> There is a lot more flexibility of discussion on the General list
> (general@nuestrosranchos.org) which can accommodate brief flurries of
> discussion on areas outside of Jalisco, Zacatecas, and/or Aguascalientes
> and for general genealogical topics.
>
> The Announce list (announce@nuestrosranchos.org) is strictly for
> announcements.
>
> joseph
>
> ====================
>
> Joseph Puentes
> http:/
Has anyone come across this family in research
Jose Desiderio Velasco born c 1820
Maria Ana Montenegro b 1826
their son Martiniano Velasco b.
Si, la herencia es algo curioso y en mi familia ha cambiado muy poco de
los tiempos antiguos.
I've just come across Casiyas as a form of Casillas (which is also treated
as a distinct surname by FamilySearch).
hace algunos años el programa de familysearch, antes del nombre ´pnes un
asterisco y salian todas las variantes, tambien se usaban otros para
encontra todas las variantes pero en la ultima actualizacion los quitaron
For several years the program familysearch, before the name 'pnes an
asterisk and leaving all the variants were also used for all other variants
but they removed the last update
2009/7/12 Raquel Ruiz
> I've just come across Casiyas as a form of Casillas (which is also treated
> as a distinct surname by FamilySearch). I was wondering if those who
> regularly research the Casillas surname frequently run across this variant.
> Its an obvious variant but one that I hadn't considered. I've run into
> Cacillas before. Are there other variants?
I have just become aware that FamilySearch.org makes a distinction between
the "...cia" and the "...sia" forms of this name. It is my impression that
these names are interchangeable.
nosotros cuando trabajemos en familyseach debemos estar concientes de que
se hizo un esfuerzo para esta base de datos tan grande, y que existen
erores den faltas de ortografia en su palegrafia, (leer textos Antiguos) por
eso debemos de rentar los film y checar a nuestros ancestros
familyseach work in us when we should be aware that an effort was made to
the database so huge and there are spelling errors in your palegrafia (read
ancient texts) that's why we need to rent the film and check out our
ancestors
2009/7/12 Raquel Ruiz
> I have just become aware that FamilySearch.org makes a distinction between
> the "...cia" and the "...sia" forms of this name. It is my impression that
> these names are interchangeable. The first "c" is sometimes an "s", but
> that passes the "exact spelling:off" screen, but not the second "c" or "s".
> Basically, that means one has to look-up both forms of the name when
> researching.
I wasn't complaining, just noting this for those who are researching this
name. Its just something I hadn't realized before and thought it might be
helpful to others.
No estaba quejandose del FamilySearch, no mas estaba anotandolo por otros
que esten investigando este apellido. No me daba cuenta de esto antes y
pense que pueda ser util a otros.
no lo tome como queja , en el caso mio, en los libros de la igesia catolico
encuentro Baldes Cuando siembre a sido valdes, estos errores tambien fueron
de las notarias de las iglesias, aunque los buscadores de famliysearch y
todos en el mundo tienen trucos,por ejemplo tengo un tio de nombre Macario y
escrito asi no sale, pero si lo escribe MaCario si sale
de todas maneras perdon
do not take it as a complaint in the case of mine, in the books of the
Catholic igesia meeting Bucket When a sow was valdes, these errors were also
notaries of the church, but seekers famliysearch in the world and all have
tricks, eg I have an uncle named Macario and not well written out, but if
you write if you leave Macario
anyway perdon
2009/7/12 Raquel Ruiz
> I wasn't complaining, just noting this for those who are researching this
> name. Its just something I hadn't realized before and thought it might be
> helpful to others.
>
> No estaba quejandose del FamilySearch, no mas estaba anotandolo
estos achivos los tengo en pdf, menos los Dicionarios que no los puedo combertir a pdf, PEROMM SERIAN PARA EL FORO NO PARA MANDAR INDIVIDUALMENTE POR CORREO
Salvador,
Si quieres convertir los cuatro Diccionarios Novohispanos de Thomas
Hillerkuss de MS WORD a PDF, con mucho gusto puedo ayudarte. Si te animas
envíamelos a la misma dirección electrónica que te di anteriormente.
Bill Figueroa
Arturo Ramos y Bil Figueroa, pudieron convertir el bak de Bernanrdino
fernandes de velasco, del siglo 14
--
Kutsaraipa: Lugar Mítico donde se Reunieron los Antepasados
http://jerez-zacatecas.ga
Salvador,
Recibí el archivo pipol.bak el cual importé a PAF 5.2 sin dificultad. Aún
no he tenido tiempo de analizarlo, pero aparentemente las vocales con acento
á, é, í, ó, ú y algunas consonantes que no se usan en inglés, como la ñ, las
cambió PAF a una combinación de dos letras. Voy a tratar de corregir esto
antes de importar el archivo a FamilyTree Maker, que es el programa que uso
para la genealogía. Muchísimas gracias. Espero poder corresponderte en un
futuro cercano.
Saludos,
Bill Figueroa
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jerez Zacatecas"
To:
Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 5:43 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] bak
Arturo Ramos y Bill Figueroa, pudieron convertir el bak de Bernanrdino
fernandes de velasco, del siglo 14
que ramos la pagina esta fallando
--
Kutsaraipa: Lugar Mítico donde se Reunieron los Antepasados
http://jerez-zacatecas.galeon.com
http://club.telepolis.com/letorre/
http://jerezzacatecas-sa
*
Cayetano de La Vega* nació en Rincón de Romos, Auguascalientes, Mexico se
casó con *-Luisa Antonia Ramirez*.
Estimados amigos quiero saber si se esta planeando una reonión de Historia y Genealogía en Los Altos como la hubo en Valle de Guadalupe en el 2008, me gustaría poder cooperar de cualquier forma y proponer sea en San Miguel el Alto y con una mayor duración y actividad académica.
Estimados Rodolfo y Ricardo
Me interesa mucho el poder asistir a esta reunion, para mi seria la primera vez, y me dara mucho gusto poder conocerlos personalmente. Ya que a la mayoria del grupo a traves de sus valiosas aportaciones y comentarios poco a poco vamos conociendolos.
Yo me encuentro en San Luis Potosi, a tres horas de distancia en auto, ya sea de Tepa o de San Miguel el Alto, por lo que donde decidan la mayoria me parece bien, y ademas si requieren alguna ayuda cuenten conmigo.
De fecha me parece bien las tres primeras semanas de Julio.
saludos
Juan Cristobal Villalobos Lomelin
I am interested in attending the Reunion this year, and would be great if I could partner with any NR members who will be traveling from California. I live in Souther Cali, and could meet up on land at any Mexican airport, or at LAX if I am so lucky to have local members...
As far as preferred date--I agree with Ricci, July/August would work better for us up here, as it is vacation season.
-Claudia
Hola a todos,si la reunion se hace en San Miguel El Alto, yo podr'ia ayudarles en cuanto informaci'on , de hoteles etc cuenten conmigo, conozco los dueños de los Hoteles.
,uno se llama el Meson de los cristeros y esta' a una cuadra sel centro, es de cuatro estrellas. El otro es Real Capestre, est'a a un kil'ometro del pueblo y es tambien cuatro estrellas. quisa' me estoy adelantando pero si somos un grupo grande es posible que el presidente municipal nos preste un lugar para las reuniones, no les asuguro nada pero es posible.
Ruben Casillas M.
--- El sáb 28-feb-09, Claudia_Reynoso escribió:
De:: Claudia_Reynoso
Asunto: [Nuestros Ranchos] Reunion 2009 - travel partners from California???
A: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Fecha: sábado, 28 febrero, 2009, 12:13 pm
I am interested in attending the Reunion this year, and would be great if I
could partner with any NR members who will be traveling from California. I live
in Souther Cali, and could meet up on land at any Mexican
Last year , the same day August 2, 2008 in Guadalajara there was the first reunion known as the Gutierrada. The families of the Jose Sotero Gutierrez and Maria de Jesus Romo from el Rancho de la Escondida near Jalostotitlan had a successful reunion. By coincidence I believe they are planning their second reunion this year also the same day August 2, 2009 .
----- Original Message -----
From: Claudia_Reynoso
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 10:13 AM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Reunion 2009 - travel partners from California???
I am interested in attending the Reunion this year, and would be great if I could partner with any NR members who will be traveling from California. I live in Souther Cali, and could meet up on land at any Mexican airport, or at LAX if I am so lucky to have local members...
As far as preferred date--I agree with Ricci, July/August would work better for us up here, as it is vacation season.
-Claudia
It would be great for me if they were close together but not on the same day so that i may meet my cousins from both groups. My great great grandmother francisca Gutierrez romo is a first cousin of Sotero Gutierrez. Francisca and her husband Eligio romo jimenez were 2nd cousins to each other and both of them closely related to sotero gutierrez and his wife.
from this romo family is my great aunt that just a few years ago recalled how when she was very young she threw fruit from from a tree at her uncle Santo toribio romo as he was walking on the sidewalk in front of her house. At first he was just dodging the fruit because he did not know where it was coming from. When he looked up and finally figured out who was throwing the fruit and from where he moved out of reach and admonished her. He warned her that he was going to tell her father( who was his cousin).
She was very old when she told this story to my mom when she was visiting her.
________________________________
From
Hola todos (as)
Busco archivos parroquiales o registros civiles de Mexticacan Jal. de 1925 a 1935 alguien tiene o sabe donde encontrarlos, estoy en Monterrey y no tengo viaje a mexticacan hasta diciembre, gracias de antemano.
Saludos cordiales
Antonio Santillan
> Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 13:52:54 -0800
> From: rricci@lausd.net
> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Reunions 2009 -
>
>
> It would be great for me if they were close together but not on the same day so that i may meet my cousins from both groups. My great great grandmother francisca Gutierrez romo is a first cousin of Sotero Gutierrez. Francisca and her husband Eligio romo jimenez were 2nd cousins to each other and both of them closely related to sotero gutierrez and his wife.
> from this romo family is my great aunt that just a few years ago recalled how when she was very young she threw fruit from from a tree at her uncle Santo toribio
Hola a todos, si la reunion, se hace en San Miguel El alto , cuenten conmigo en lo que les pueda ayudar, informaci'on de hoteles, trasportaci'on etc , alguna sugerecia¿
Ruben Casillas M.
--- El sáb 28-feb-09, Ricci, Richard escribió:
De:: Ricci, Richard
Asunto: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Reunions 2009 -
A: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Fecha: sábado, 28 febrero, 2009, 3:52 pm
It would be great for me if they were close together but not on the same day so
that i may meet my cousins from both groups. My great great grandmother
francisca Gutierrez romo is a first cousin of Sotero Gutierrez. Francisca and
her husband Eligio romo jimenez were 2nd cousins to each other and both of them
closely related to sotero gutierrez and his wife.
from this romo family is my great aunt that just a few years ago recalled how
when she was very young she threw fruit from from a tree at her uncle Santo
toribio romo as he was walking on the sidewalk in front of her house. At first
he was just dodging
Mi nombre es JOsé María Vallejo Mercado, y ahorita que abri el correo se me hizo familiar el nombre de Eligio Romo Jiménez, lo anterior debido a que mi tatarabuela se llamaba Josefa Romo JIménez, y tengo conociemiento que tenia entre otros hermanos a Dorotea que casó con Jacinto Hurtado; tambien Teresa que casó con Doroteo Alvarez; y a Eligio casado con Francisca Gutiérrez ( desconozco el apelolido materno y quienes fueron sus padres).
Josefa casó con mi tatarabuelo Agustin Vallejo Tostado, hijo de JOaquin Vallejo y de Juana Tostado.
Joséfa era hija de Pablo Romo y Manuela JIménez.
Mi pregunta es si se trata de Eligio era hijo de Pablo Romo y Manuela JIménez, o se trata de otro Eligio. y si sabes de quienes eran sus padres.
Si tienes los datos te agradeceria mucho si me los enviares a este correo, Vivo en Jalostotitlán, Jal.
Otro dato que te puedo ofrecer es que Eligio nació en el rancho "Los Portales, Municipio de Jalostotitlán, Jal.
> Date
es el mismo, mi bisabuelo Eligio Romo Jimenez fue casado con Francisca Gutierrez Gonzalez. Eligio fue padre de emeterio romo Gutierrez quien se caso Serapia Franco Barba. mi abuelo Hermenegildo Romo Franco y el doctor Rito Romo Franco son hijos de emeterio y rito.
yo tengo a Maria josefa Romo Jimenez, hermana de mi tatarabuelo nascida en 1848 en los Portales y casada con agustin Vallejo el 17/de enero/ 1867.
yo tengo los hijos que dices pero mas para un total de ocho
tambien tengo mucho de tu arbol ya hecho
________________________________
From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org on behalf of jose maria vallejo mercado
Sent: Tue 3/3/2009 5:15 PM
To: consulta genealogica
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] FW: Reunions 2009 -
Mi nombre es JOsé María Vallejo Mercado, y ahorita que abri el correo se me hizo familiar el nombre de Eligio Romo Jiménez, lo anterior debido a que mi tatarabuela se llamaba Josefa Romo JIménez, y tengo conociemiento que tenia entre otros hermanos a
perdona el error
recibi una llamada por telefono en medio de la respuesta y escribi algo mal
Mi abuelo hermengildo romo franco y rito son es hijos de emeterio romo gutierrez y serapia franco barba
yo he hecho mucho del arbol de jose jesus gutierrez vallejo hijo de Francico gutierrez y maria Eulogia Valleo
maria eulogia es hija de Mauricio Vallejo y celsa Cornejo
mauricio vallejo es hijo leonardo vallejo
leonardo vallejo es hijo de Jose Juasquin M Vallejo Ochoa y Juana Maria Tostado de la torre
Anastacio vallejo y maria rafael ochoa son los padres de Jose Juaquin Vallejo
Tengo muchas de las otras ramas, pero todavia no he buscado los padres y abuelos de anastacio vallejo y maria rafael ochoa
Tengo mucho vallejo en mi familia y ya lo estoy juntando con los californios hijos del sargento hermano de mi tatara abuel
________________________________
From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org on behalf of Ricci, Richard
Sent: Tue 3/3/2009 6:48 PM
To: research@nuestrosranchos
GRacias por tu atención.
Yo tengo de los hijos de Eligio Romo Jiménez casado con Francisca Gutiérrez González.
Canuto caso con María Concepción Gutiérrez.
Juan casó María Gutiérrez.
Reyes desconozco con quien casó
Irinea casó Pablo Romo
María del Refugio desconozco con quien casó.
Emeterio casó desconozco con quien casó ( pero ya que me dices que era tu tatarabuelo me da gusto saber que tenemos algo en comun, ya que solo sabia que su descendencia vivia en el municipio del Valle de Guadalupe.)
Dionicia casó con Dionicio Gutiérrez.
Por lo anterior me da gusto el tener una linea de parentezco, ( tal vez no te acuerdes de mi pero soy el de Jalos que fuimos contigo un servidor y John González, estuvimos presente en la conferencia con el Lic. Mariano González, tal vez te acuerdes que fuimos a la hacienda del Cuadrado que por cierto no nos dejaron pasar a la hacienda.
Sin más de momento agradezco tu atención y estamos en comunicación.
p. d
Hola Jose Maria,
Me estas confundiendo Con ricardo rodriguez. tambien me llamo ricardo pero soy nieto de hermeregildo romo. Tambien me llamo ricardo pero la mayoria me dicen rick ricky o ricci
Cuando yo iba al valle no me presentaba como hijo de tal y tal. Mi padre salio del valle a los diez anos. Mi madre tambien salio del valle joven de los dies y nueve anos . Yo siempre me presentaba como nieto de mere romo o sobrino del doctor Rito Romo Franco, sobrino de la prieta. le decian la prieta aungue era blanca de cara porque de sus hermanos es la unica que tenia el pelo negro. Los demas eran jueros con los ojos azueles.
aunque algunos si conocen mis padres mas me conocen por mi abuelo o porque soy primo de tal y tal.
________________________________
From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org on behalf of jose maria vallejo mercado
Sent: Thu 3/5/2009 2:35 PM
To: consulta genealogica; Ricardo Rodríguez Camarena
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] FW: Reunions 2009 -
Jose Reyes se caso con Cleta Franco Alvarez hija de Nestor Franco y martin y maria josefa alvarez rodriguez
Jose Romo, hijo de jose reyes romo gut. y Cleta Franco Alvarez se caso Mercedes Barba Cornejo
Jose Romo Franco y Mercedes Barba Cornejo son los padres de jorge Romo Barba, autor de libro un libro sobre la historia del valle de gpe con arbols genealogicos de la familias barba y martin
la hermana de jorge, Maria Luisa Romo Barba se caso con su primo segundo J. Gpe Romo perez hijo de Hermengildo Romo Franco Y Maria del Carmen Perez Ramirez
Mi madre, juanita romo perez, tambien es hija de Hermenegildo Romo Franco & Maria carmen Perez Ramirez
________________________________
From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org on behalf of jose maria vallejo mercado
Sent: Thu 3/5/2009 2:35 PM
To: consulta genealogica; Ricardo Rodríguez Camarena
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] FW: Reunions 2009 -
GRacias por tu atención.
Yo tengo de los hijos de Eligio Romo
A los hijos de agustin vallejo y Josefa romo no mas tengo a Jose antonio Vallejo Romo y Mariana Vallejo Romo
Alos hijos de anastacio vallejo y rafaela ochoa tengo a cinco:
Jose juaquin Macario Vallejo Ochoa
Jose Francisco de Santiago Vallejo Ochoa
Maria de la Asumpcion Vallejo Ochoa
Maria Rita Vallejo Ochoa
Manuel vallejo Ochoa
a los hijos de Jose Juaquin Macario vallejo ochoa y juana maria de jesus no mas tengo a Leonardo vallejo tostado y a agustin vallejo tostado
De los ijos de jose Pablo romo gutierrez y maria manuela jimenez gonzalez tengo a :
Eligio Romo Jimenez nacido 7/dec/1834
Dorotea Romo Jimenez 8/jun/1841
Francisca Romo J. 26/sep/1843
Ma. de la asencion Romo j. 23/mayo/1846
Jose alejo romo j 23 jul 1848
emigdio romo j.8/aug/1852
tereza romo j. 22/may/1854
maria josefa 1848
los dos pablo romo gutierrez y su esposa maria manuela jimenez gonzalez son parientes muy cercanos a los abuelos de santo toribio romo
________________________________
From: research-bounces
Hola Rodolfo, que gusto saber de ti de nuevo. Justamente anoche estaba
pensando en escribirte para ver si nos podíamos echar una vuelta allá por
tus rumbos para visitar las ruinas de las pirámides de las que nos
platicaste. Estuve viendo un documental de Teotihuacán y quedé asombrado y
muy intrigado.
Acerca de la reunión, no se ha hablado nada todavía pero sí creo que ya es
hora de comenzar a planearla. También estoy de acuerdo en que sea en San
Miguel el Alto, sería perfecto, a menos que algún otro miembro sugiera otro
lugar. Tienes algo en mente como actividades? Algún miembro sugiere otro
lugar?
Saludos primo,
Ricardo
-----Mensaje original-----
De: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] En nombre de Rodolfo
Sinaí Gómez
Enviado el: viernes, febrero 20, 2009 5:01 PM
Para: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Asunto: [Nuestros Ranchos] Reunión 2009
Estimados amigos quiero saber si se esta planeando una reonión de Historia y
Hola a todos ! me parese excelente idea que la reunion sea en San Miguel el Alto, planeandose con tiempo lograremos juntarnos.
Ruben Casillas M.
--- El vie 20-feb-09, Ricardo Rodriguez escribió:
De:: Ricardo Rodriguez
Asunto: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Reunión 2009
A: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Fecha: viernes, 20 febrero, 2009, 6:41 pm
Hola Rodolfo, que gusto saber de ti de nuevo. Justamente anoche estaba
pensando en escribirte para ver si nos podíamos echar una vuelta allá por
tus rumbos para visitar las ruinas de las pirámides de las que nos
platicaste. Estuve viendo un documental de Teotihuacán y quedé asombrado y
muy intrigado.
Acerca de la reunión, no se ha hablado nada todavía pero sí creo que ya es
hora de comenzar a planearla. También estoy de acuerdo en que sea en San
Miguel el Alto, sería perfecto, a menos que algún otro miembro sugiera otro
lugar. Tienes algo en mente como actividades? Algún miembro sugiere otro
lugar?
Saludos primo,
Ricardo
-----Mensaje original--
Hola a todos, quisiera saber si hay más miembros interesados en asistir y
participar en nuestra segunda reunión anual de Historia y Genealogía de Los
Altos de Jalisco. En la primera reunión que tuvimos el pasado 2 de Agosto
aquí en Valle de Guadalupe, además de contar con la presencia de Don Mariano
Gonzalez Leal como invitado de honor y que nos expuso un tema acerca de la
Historia de la sociedad Alteña, contamos con la asistencia de
aproximadamente 10 miembros de Nuestros Ranchos, además de varias personas
que aunque no eran miembros de NR en aquel momento, ahora ya lo son, ya que
se han integrado a este grupo. En total fueron más de 70 personas que
vinieron que asistieron a la conferencia y a la comida.
La invitación está abierta para todos los miembros de Nuestros Ranchos que
gusten participar, ya sea para que expongan un tema en particular, nos
ayuden con la organización del evento, o hasta para sugerir ideas que nos
puedan ayudar a que el evento de este año sea todo un éxito
Hola Ricardo, yo también deseo participar en ésta segunda reunión sobre los Altos de Jalisco, que aunque el otro año había dicho que iba ir no pude por motivos de trabajo, pero éste año espero no se presente otro inconveniente.
Me parece bien cualquier lugar de los Altos de Jalisco para la reunión, ya que todos los municipios alteños son buenos para visitar y conocer, no se mucho de los servicios hoteleros que se ofrecen en los municipios ajenos a Tepatitlán, pero yo que vivo en Tepa se que hay muchos hoteles, y que dan buen servicio, yo propondría a Tepa por ese motivo, pero si dices que también en San Miguel hay buen servicio creo que estará bien. Por mi no hay problema, pues me trasladaría de Tepa a San Miguel, pero hay que ver quienes asistirán al evento.
Ricardo, en lo que te pueda ayudar ya sabes que aquí estoy disponible.
Saludos.
Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.
_________________________________________________________________
Sabes que son imágenes dinámicas en Messenger
Hi tocayo,
I rec'd the book yesterday and I found a picture of you in it. Thanks for sending it to me.
As to the reunion I believe it would easier if were in mid to late july or early august so that more people from the states may attend. I know for me it would me much easier since I teach and that is my time off. I would also prefer San Miguel since that is where my wife is from but I also have a lot of good memories from Tepa. I also have first cousins that still live in Tepa.
________________________________
From: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org on behalf of Ricardo Rodriguez
Sent: Thu 2/26/2009 2:18 PM
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Reunión 2009 en Los Altos de Jalisco
Hola a todos, quisiera saber si hay más miembros interesados en asistir y
participar en nuestra segunda reunión anual de Historia y Genealogía de Los
Altos de Jalisco. En la primera reunión que tuvimos el pasado 2 de Agosto
aquí en Valle de Guadalupe, además de contar con
Hoal Ricardo, mi nombre e José María Vallejo Mercado, originario y vecino de Jalostotitlán, Jal.
Hoy tuve tiempo de abrir el correo en el cual haces la invitación a la segunda reunion:
Estuve en al primer reunion en Valle de Guadalupe, Jal. la cual me pareción muy importante tanto más que estuvo el Lic. Mariano González Leal, lo cual fue todo un exito en parte por tu participación.
Estoy dispuesto a ESTAR EN LA SEGUNDA REUNIÓN, y si es necesario alguna aportación economica para solventar los gastos estoy en la mejor disposición, ya que mo reze el refran " entre muchos la carga es mas liviana".
Solo espero la confirmación o información por este medio, y si tiene cuenta bancaria para realizar la aportación, igual la puedes anotar.
Sin más de momento, felicidades y gracias.
> Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 15:01:02 -0800
> From: rricci@lausd.net
> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Reunión 2009 en Los Altos de Jalisco
>
>
Les aviso que aunque no les conteste a los que han mostrado interés en
asistir a nuestra reunión del 2009, estoy anotando los nombres de cada
persona que ha contestado para cuando comencemos a oficializar el evento
mandarles un correo con las propuestas y detalles del evento.
Por lo que han sugerido, la mayoría está de acuerdo en que la reunión se
lleve a cabo la primera semana de agosto, ya sea el día primero (sábado) o
el día ocho, y el lugar parece ser que será San Miguel el Alto, a menos que
cambien los planes.
Entre más se acerque el día del evento les iremos mandando correos a los que
han mostrado el deseo de asistir.
Gracias a todos por su ayuda y su tiempo.
Saludos
Ricardo Rodríguez Camarena
Valle de Guadalupe, Jalisco
Ricardo, por favor tomame en cuenta, gracias.si en algo puedo ayudar cuenta conmigo.
Ruben Casillas M.
--- El mar 3-mar-09, Ricardo Rodriguez escribió:
De:: Ricardo Rodriguez
Asunto: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Reunión 2009 en Los Altos de Jalisco
A: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Fecha: martes, 3 marzo, 2009, 8:17 pm
Les aviso que aunque no les conteste a los que han mostrado interés en
asistir a nuestra reunión del 2009, estoy anotando los nombres de cada
persona que ha contestado para cuando comencemos a oficializar el evento
mandarles un correo con las propuestas y detalles del evento.
Por lo que han sugerido, la mayoría está de acuerdo en que la reunión se
lleve a cabo la primera semana de agosto, ya sea el día primero (sábado) o
el día ocho, y el lugar parece ser que será San Miguel el Alto, a menos que
cambien los planes.
Entre más se acerque el día del evento les iremos mandando correos a los que
han mostrado el deseo de asistir.
Gracias a todos por su ayuda y su tiempo
Estoy de acuerdo contigo.
Saludos.
Chema Vallejo
> From: rickrod.com@gmail.com
> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 20:17:26 -0600
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Reunión 2009 en Los Altos de Jalisco
>
> Les aviso que aunque no les conteste a los que han mostrado interés en
> asistir a nuestra reunión del 2009, estoy anotando los nombres de cada
> persona que ha contestado para cuando comencemos a oficializar el evento
> mandarles un correo con las propuestas y detalles del evento.
>
> Por lo que han sugerido, la mayoría está de acuerdo en que la reunión se
> lleve a cabo la primera semana de agosto, ya sea el día primero (sábado) o
> el día ocho, y el lugar parece ser que será San Miguel el Alto, a menos que
> cambien los planes.
>
> Entre más se acerque el día del evento les iremos mandando correos a los que
> han mostrado el deseo de asistir.
>
> Gracias a todos por su ayuda y su tiempo.
>
> Saludos
>
> Ricardo Rodríguez Camarena
> Valle de
Hola Ricardo.
Me parece muy buena la idea que sea en San Miguel el Alto, Jal. además sugiero ( y esto es solo sugerencia de mi parte ya que puede haber otras mejores) que sea el primer sabado de agosto, para que sea mas memorable o recordable la los miembros.
De igual forma la fecha seria lo de menos para mí, ya que la que se decida me parece bien.
Esperando información, agradezco la atención.
ATTE.
JOsé María Vallejo Mercado.
> Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 15:01:02 -0800
> From: rricci@lausd.net
> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Reunión 2009 en Los Altos de Jalisco
>
> Hi tocayo,
> I rec'd the book yesterday and I found a picture of you in it. Thanks for sending it to me.
> As to the reunion I believe it would easier if were in mid to late july or early august so that more people from the states may attend. I know for me it would me much easier since I teach and that is my time off. I would also prefer San Miguel since
Hola Ricardo,
Yo solo quiero saber la fecha ya que el año pasado no me fue posible acudir. Para los principios de Agosto seria ideal.
Estan la meastra Marta Duron y el Doctor Jose Enciso Contreras de la Universidad Autonoma de Zacatecas. Son dos gran personajes para dar una presentacion de la historia de la region y su gente.
Si es necesario participar con algo monetario para invitar a tales personajes, estaria dispuesta para hacer una contribucion.
Espero con mucho animo mas informacion.
Atentamente,
Alicia, San Jose, Calif
________________________________
From: Ricardo Rodriguez
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 2:18:41 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Reunión 2009 en Los Altos de Jalisco
Hola a todos, quisiera saber si hay más miembros interesados en asistir y
participar en nuestra segunda reunión anual de Historia y Genealogía de Los
Altos de Jalisco. En la primera reunión que tuvimos el pasado 2 de Agosto
aquí en Valle de Guadalupe, además
Hola Ricardo:
Gusto en volver a saludarte, y felicitrte de nuevo por tu gran
labor en pro de
Valle de Guadalupe, Los Altos de Jalisco, todo Jalisco Mismo y la Genealogia
en verdad es envidable y digno de ejemplo toda la labor que haces.
Por mi parte me apunto de nuevo para asistir a esta segunda reunion de
Nuestros Ranchos, me parece bien San Miguel el Alto, o cualquier ciudad Alteña,
y cualquier fecha pero que sea dada a conocer con la maxima anticipacio posible
para tenerla claramente hubicada y no hacer ningun compromiso en esa fecha,
como sugerencia pudiera ser el primer sabado de Agosto, y que se trate de hacer
tradicional esa fecha para conmemorar la primera reunion, y que todos
los miembros
de Nuestros Ranchos ya con anticipacion tengan anotada en sus agendas esa fecha,
primer sabado de Agosto de cada año, para celebrar cada reunion anual,
que se haga
una tradicion.
Saludos desde Guadalajara:
Tomas Alejandro Villegas Gomez
Posdata Ricardo: Aunque tardecito, te agradezco por haberme
nombrado Vallelupense del Mes de Diciembre, en tu pagina del
Valle de Guadalupe, un honor inmerecido, pero que te agradezco
enormemente, un abrazo, y al parecer fui el ultimo Vallelupense
del Mes, ya que suprimiste ese rubro desde Enero.
2009/2/26 Tomás Alejandro Villegas Gómez :
> Hola Ricardo:
>
> Gusto en volver a saludarte, y felicitrte de nuevo por tu gran
> labor en pro de
> Valle de Guadalupe, Los Altos de Jalisco, todo Jalisco Mismo y la Genealogia
> en verdad es envidable y digno de ejemplo toda la labor que haces.
>
> Por mi parte me apunto de nuevo para asistir a esta segunda reunion de
> Nuestros Ranchos, me parece bien San Miguel el Alto, o cualquier ciudad Alteña,
> y cualquier fecha pero que sea dada a conocer con la maxima anticipacio posible
> para tenerla claramente hubicada y no hacer ningun compromiso en esa fecha,
> como sugerencia pudiera ser el primer sabado de Agosto, y que se trate de
Yo no puedo organizar la reunion pero puedo cooperar en lo que se pueda, yo soy de San Miguel y radico en Leon GTO, cualquier cosa cuenten conmigo.
Ruben Casillas M.
--- El vie 10-jul-09, Rick Rodriguez escribió:
De:: Rick Rodriguez
Asunto: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Reunión 2009
A: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Fecha: viernes 10 de julio de 2009, 1:34
Hola a todos de nuevo,
Alguno de ustedes tiene interés en que nos volvamos a reunir este año aquí
en Los Altos para una segunda reunión anual? Ya habíamos mencionado a San
Miguel el Alto como posible sede, pero todavía podríamos llegar a otros
acuerdos.
Desafortunadamente, yo no puedo organizar el evento este año pero estoy
dispuesto a ayudarle con lo que pueda al que se lance a hacerlo. Que dicen,
hay algún aventado que se anime?
Saludos
Hello everyone,
Is anyone still interested in getting together this year here in Los Altos
for a second annual reunion? We mentioned San Miguel before as a possible
reunion site, but we could
Ricardo como estas?
Buenos días.
Como va el asunto de la reunión en San Miguel el Alto?
Yo te propongo lo siguiente, si la reunión es de un día:
9:00 registro de asistentes
9:30 Conferencia por algún experto sobre genealogía o métodos de investigación documental e internet
11:30 descanso
12:00 Conferencia por algún historiador sobre la región de Nuestros Ranchos o algún tema sobre la migración pasada y presente en la región y sus consecuencias.
15:00 Comida
Tarde libre
Pedir el apoyo del municipio de San Miguel el Alto tal vez para el espacio en un auditorio o teatro para las conferencias y para la comida.
Pedir el apoyo de los miembros de Nuestros Ranchos para la comida y el café, agua y galletas para una mesa durante las conferencias, para cubrir los ´viáticos de los conferencistas. Tal vez montar una exposición con los árboles genealógicos de algunas familias en el lugar donde sea la comida o de fotografías antiguas de nuestros abuelos, bisabuelos etc.
Hola a todos de nuevo,
Alguno de ustedes tiene interés en que nos volvamos a reunir este año aquí
en Los Altos para una segunda reunión anual? Ya habíamos mencionado a San
Miguel el Alto como posible sede, pero todavía podríamos llegar a otros
acuerdos.
Desafortunadamente, yo no puedo organizar el evento este año pero estoy
dispuesto a ayudarle con lo que pueda al que se lance a hacerlo. Que dicen,
hay algún aventado que se anime?
Saludos
Hello everyone,
Is anyone still interested in getting together this year here in Los Altos
for a second annual reunion? We mentioned San Miguel before as a possible
reunion site, but we could still do it somewhere else.
Unfortunately, I can't organize the reunion this year but I'm willing to
help out with what I can if anyone decides to do it. What do you say, anyone
up for the challenge?
Regards,
Ricardo Rodriguez
Me gusta mucho la idea de San Miguel el alto. yo no sabia de la junta del Valle y de alli son mis abuelos. La family de mi esposa y dos de mis bisabuelos son de san miguel y rancho de santa ana, Mi esposa es de la familia Tostado Gutierrez y Lomeli Gutierrez de san Miguel el Alto.
Ella desciende de Camilo Cassillas quien iso mucho para construir la plaza
Rick (Ricardo)
________________________________
From: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org on behalf of Rodolfo Sinaí Gómez
Sent: Fri 2/20/2009 3:01 PM
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Reunión 2009
Estimados amigos quiero saber si se esta planeando una reonión de Historia y Genealogía en Los Altos como la hubo en Valle de Guadalupe en el 2008, me gustaría poder cooperar de cualquier forma y proponer sea en San Miguel el Alto y con una mayor duración y actividad académica.
Hasta pronto.
Lic. Rodolfo Sinaí Gómez
_________________________________________________________________
Comparte
Richard, mi bisabuelo fue primo hermano de Camilo Casillas.
Ruben Casillas M.
--- El vie 20-feb-09, Ricci, Richard escribió:
De:: Ricci, Richard
Asunto: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Reunión 2009
A: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Fecha: viernes, 20 febrero, 2009, 5:10 pm
Me gusta mucho la idea de San Miguel el alto. yo no sabia de la junta del Valle
y de alli son mis abuelos. La family de mi esposa y dos de mis bisabuelos son de
san miguel y rancho de santa ana, Mi esposa es de la familia Tostado Gutierrez y
Lomeli Rocha de san Miguel el Alto.
Ella desciende de Camilo Cassillas quien iso mucho para construir la plaza
Rick (Ricardo)
________________________________
From: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org on behalf of Rodolfo Sinaí
Gómez
Sent: Fri 2/20/2009 3:01 PM
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Reunión 2009
Estimados amigos quiero saber si se esta planeando una reonión de Historia y
Genealogía en Los Altos como la hubo en Valle de Guadalupe en el
en Google en la seccion de libros se encuentra un libro para ver casi esta completo y se encuentra en ingles sobre
The Encomenderos of New Spain, 1521-1555 Escrito por Robert Himmerich y Valencia
Otro libro par leer en google libros
Historia del Nuevo Reino de León (1577-1723). Escrito por Eugenio del Hoyo
Salvador Cabral Valdes
Victor Manuel
Yo tengo ese libro y esta muy interesante,si hay algo en ese libro que te interese o a un miembro con gusto le proporciono la informacion .
Saludos
Jose Luis Felix
> To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: cabval@gmail.com
> Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 12:09:50 -0700
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Para Leer en linea en el googlew libros
>
> en Google en la seccion de libros se encuentra un libro para ver casi esta completo y se encuentra en ingles sobre
> The Encomenderos of New Spain, 1521-1555 Escrito por Robert Himmerich y Valencia
1823. Jalisco, formerly a Province, is elevated to the status of State.
Las Genealogías de Jerez Zacatecas siempre serán inconclusas.
¿Estás diciendo que además de las 245 peliculas de los registros para Jerez
Zacatecas encontrados en:
http://www.familysearch.org/eng/library/fhlcatalog/supermainframeset.as…++,
todavía hay otros 96 libros?
los 96 que menciono se perdieron en la revolución porque no los tenia la
iglesia si no el gobierno y eran de otra iglesia que no era la inmaculada
--
Kutsaraipa: Lugar Mítico donde se Reunieron los Antepasados
http://jerez-zacatecas.galeon.com
http://club.telepolis.com/letorre/
http://jerezzacatecas-salvador.blogspot.com/
http://club.telepolis.com/jerz/
http://jerez-zacatecas.blogdiario.com/
http://jerez-zacatecas.blog.galeon.com/
http://jerezzacatecas.galeon.com/
salvador cabral valdes
¿Estas seguro de que se perdieron? ¿A cual iglesia pertenecían? El simple
hecho del que el gobierno los tenía no quiere decir que se perdieron. Un
documento diciendo que estaban en las manos del gobierno no necesariamente
significa que fueron destruidos los libros. El Registro Civil es parte de
los documentos que mantiene el gobierno y muchos de esos registros todavía
existen. De hecho, aunque no todas las personas registraban a sus hijos, los
documentos en el registro civil pueden ayudar a reconstruir las familias de
ese lugar además de los de la Sagrada Mitra. Desafortunadamente abarcan poco
tiempo y se necesitara utilizar otros registros, tal como los notariales
para encontrar a su familia. Quien sabe hay la posibilidad que se
encuentren algún día.
*
,En Jerez en la actualidad estas son las iglesias que existen,
El Cargadero ,Inmaculada,Sagrado Corazón,Ermita de Guadalupe,Ermita de Los
Correa,Malpaso Villanueva,San Francisco de Asís,San José Obrero , las fechas
de fundacion no las conosco, pero documentacion solo tenemos de la
inmaculada, las dos hermitas que estan juntas , la de villanueva, nos falta
la de dolores, la de guadalupe que desaparecio, en el timpo que el gobierno
quito los libros a la iglesia por lo que vi parece que fue la del santuario,
puedo equibocarmen, el gobierno no tenia registros, y como era una fuente
de ingreso por eso los extrajo de la iglesia, y si tu vez en la actualidad
el regisro civil de jerez casi no tiene casi libros de los registros
(checa la lista que se encuentra en familysearch) , que es cuando inicia el
registro civil por inicativa de Benito Juarez
el documento dice asi.
Extracion de libros
* --------------------------------------
En el libro de gobierno No 4 en la foja 18 vuelta se
Navegando en internet me encontre un gedcom de Bernardino de Velazco el supuesto padre de Diego, nadamas que es muy pesado 18,852 lo que seria el bak, pero poca gente que desiende de diego lo tiene,
Salvador:
Bienvenido al sitio. Como veo ya estas contribuyendo muchisima informacion muy valiosa. El sitio Nuestros Ranchos tiene una base de datos GEDCOM donde podriamos montar el archivo. Si me lo puedes mandar a mi direccion arturo [punto] ramos2 [arroba] gmail [punto] com yo lo montare.
Gracias de nuevo.
el bak, no lo haceptan los correos, lo rechasan algunonos por la extencion y otros por falta de capacidad, debe de traer como 30000 personas del años de 1500 al año 800, tratare de enviarlo, para que se difunda de echo todos los que somos decendientes de Diego de velasco, somos decendientes de los reyes de españa y algunos otros reinoos de europa e inglaterra, ( tambien tengo copias del archivo de pares de Diego de Velasco, pero batallo para la pleografia)
Salvador Cabral Valdes
I updated my file on my DE ESCOBEDO ancestral line down to and including my parents
you entered no name, what name are your files under?
Linda in B.C.
--- On Thu, 7/9/09, jcdl1944@hotmail.com wrote:
From: jcdl1944@hotmail.com
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] DE ESCOBEDO
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Thursday, July 9, 2009, 12:24 PM
I updated my file on my DE ESCOBEDO ancestral line down to and including my parents
Hola a todos,
me realise la prueba de adn y la he comparado en algunas paginas y en ningunmomento en mexico han salido algo que diga que somos de la mism alinea los cabral solo aprece que tenemos 50 % de marcadors iguales, y en algunos casos dice que tengo el 85 porciento de los marcadores iguales a los apellidos de inglaterra y escocia, y mi arbol se ncuentra en 1610 naciendo todavia en mexico en -jerez Zacatecas
Hi All, I am wondering if anyone has any San Miguel El Alto films on Loan or are located at their local FHC.
Daniel,
How far is San Miguel El Alto from San Juan de Los Lagos? I found a Pedro Gutierrz. married to Ma. Ysidra Sta. Crus (in San Juan de Los Lagos)on 17 January 1828. One of his children was Maria de Jesus Gutierrez Santa Cruz, b. 24 June 1829, in San Miguel El Alto. Is this something you already have? Have a nice day.
-Esther Jordan
Hi All, I am wondering if anyone has any San Miguel El Alto films on Loan or
are located at their local FHC.
I have this line that I can find possibly the grandparents of one ancestor,
since I dont have the marriage of the parents.
María Jesús Gutiérrez de la Cruz
24 June 1829
San Miguel El Alto, Jalisco, México
Hija de Pedro Gutiérrez y Isidra de la Cruz
Many Thanks,
Daniel
Daniel, at my FHC I have a film from San Miguel el Alto from 1855 to 1857. Let me know if I can help. Many of my ancestors Gama are from San Miguel and I plan on asking for other films.
Daniel en el FHC de mi localidad tengo un film de San Miguel de 1855 a 1857. Si puedo ayudar, dejame saber. Muchos de mis antepasados Gama son de San Miguel, y mas adelante planeo pedir otros films.
Rosie Cordova
Wow, yeah thats them, Santa Cruz, huh I thought that was just a mistake so I ruled it out and posted Cruz, I need to update that. San Juan is pretty close to San Miguel, Jesús married in Encarnación de Díaz, what we call "La Chona" but we dont say it often, sounds weird. Have you worked on this family or have the marriage? DO you might sending it a scan? I already know its Gutiérrez but its going to end up being Gutiérrez de Mendoza or HErmosillo. They were Spaniards and married in the same families. Wow this wall was just torn down, many thanks Esther. I already had, Her baptismal date but not the marriage. That would make sense, San Juan is just up the road. If you cant send a scan well the pertinent info will be just fine. -Daniel
_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live Hotmail now works up to 70% faster.
http://windowslive.com/Explore/Hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_fa…
Daniel, I am struggling with my scanner (can't seem to figure how to use it :) but I am working on it.)
In the meantime, here is the information I have.
Pedro Gutierrz. married 17 January 1828, with Ma. Ysidra Sta. Crus, in San Juan De Los Lagos, Jalisco. Batch # M603413, (Ser. #00602) (1823-1841) film #00220710. They were sealed in the Los Angeles, CA Temple. In another record, they have a child named Maria de Jesus Gutierrez Santa, b. 1829.
I do have a lot of Gutierrez and Mendoza in my maternal side but they are in the 1800's. My places are Ocotlan, Zapotlan del Rey, La Barca, Jamay, and Guadalajara, and others.
I am happy to I was able to help an expert genealogist. Thank you. Esther Jordan
Wow, yeah thats them, Santa Cruz, huh I thought that was just a mistake so I
ruled it out and posted Cruz, I need to update that. San Juan is pretty close
to San Miguel, Jesús married in Encarnación de Díaz, what we call "La Chona"
but we dont say it often, sounds weird. Have you
Its okay Esther, just you having the info sent to me vía email is all the prize by itself. You have helped me out already just by breaking a wall in my genealogy, I do greatly appreiciate your kindness and willingness to help. -Daniel
I am actually very exited as this will open a huge door where the alteños will coming out! I already descend from Gutiérrez de Mendoza family so would nt be surprised his parents are them. The only other Gutiérrez are Gutiérrez de Hermosillo and Gutiérrez de Coronado.
_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live Hotmail now works up to 70% faster.
http://windowslive.com/Explore/Hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_fa…
Hello Everyone, seeing the post today in regards to Y DNA results, It occurred to me that I said I would share my results when they came in.
Hola a todos, viendo el post hoy en cuanto a resultados ADN-Y se me ocurrio que habia dicho que compartiera mis resultados en cuanto me llegaran. Disculpame por no haberlo hecho aunque lo mas seguro es que nadie dejo de dormir por eso ( JA !) Mis Y resultados ADN-Y son E1b1b1a2\Version Corta E-V13. Es el tercer más común haplogrupo entre los hombres de Europea y considerado uno de los bases o fundaciones de los grupos de Europe. Es el unico subgrupo E que se encuentra con baja frecuencia(2% ) en el Norte de Africa. Este subgrupo esta asociado con la península balcánica donde se encuentra el porcentaje mas grande en el mundo de E-V13. Se usa para identificar poblaciones ancianas como los ¿illyrians?, tracios y macedonios y tambien los griegos. Poblaciones modernos que tienen alta porcentaje de E-V13 son albaneses, griegos peloponesos, búlgaros y macedonios.
En España se encuentra en baja cantidad y principalmente esta concentrado en el occidente, los porcentajes son Extremadura (9%)
"So what does it all mean?well, for one, I'm the only E-V13 on Gary Felix's website, the “Geneology of Mexico”. There are others who have the same 12 \37 marker results, but have not done the deep clade test, so who knows ? As far as helping me with my genealogy studies, as of yet it has not. I'm thinking that my ancestors in Spain may have come from one of the western provinces, perhaps Extremadura, but it’s all speculation at this point. Sorry to bore you all ! Thanks for your patience!
Robert"
Robert,
You are welcome to email Gary Felix and see what he thinks about your haplogroup but I doubt that you will get more information than what you already expressed. The E-series of haplogroups can be grouped into the Mediterranean/Semitic group of Y-DNA. So, you should not be surprised if you found yourself related to a Jew, a Berber, or whoever was in the southern part of the Mediterranean "pond"---same gene pool, same Semitic/Mediterranean stock.
Gary and a number of us have
Gentlemen,
The Y-DNA test can offer some surprises and leave you with more questions
instead of answers. I expected a variety of possible origins, except the one
found. So far, I'm the only
one in the study to turn up Haplogroup O. Although my Robledo family line
claimed. Asturias as their homeland, it is actualy South Asia, most likley
the Phillipines.
Eric Robledo Edgar
On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 8:47 PM, wrote:
> "So what does it all mean?well, for one, I'm the only E-V13 on Gary Felix's
> website, the “Geneology of Mexico”. There are others who have the same 12
> \37 marker results, but have not done the deep clade test, so who knows ? As
> far as helping me with my genealogy studies, as of yet it has not. I'm
> thinking that my ancestors in Spain may have come from one of the western
> provinces, perhaps Extremadura, but it’s all speculation at this point.
> Sorry to bore you all ! Thanks for your patience!
>
> Robert"
>
>
>
> Robert,
>
> You are welcome to email Gary Felix and
was hesitant to jump into this thread but just thought I'd toss in my
Y-DNA results. As always with regards to DNA questions, don't ask me no
questions and I don't tell you no lies:
http://www.ysearch.org/haplosearch_view.asp?haplo=R1b1b2a1a&viewuid=XYE…
or
http://www.ysearch.org/lastname_view.asp?uid=XYESD&letter=&lastname=pue…
joseph
======================
Joseph Puentes
NoMeat@h2opodcast.com
http://h2opodcast.com/vsse.html (Vegan Environmental Solutions Podcast)
http://h2opodcast.com (Environmental Podcast)
http://h2opodcast.blogspot.com (Blog for above)
http://PleaseListenToYourMom.com (Women's Peace Podcast)
http://NuestraFamiliaUnida.com (Latin American History Podcast)
http://nuestrosranchos.org (Jalisco, Zacatecas, and Aguascalientes
Genealogy)
Thanks for posting them Joseph, that is the Atalantic Modal type correct ? found through out Spain and the British Isles ? Have you done much research on this haplotype ?
Joseph, I see you commented "Spanish Origins Valley of Trucios, Province of Biscay" Do you have more info? My ancestors are from the same area, Valmaseda, but with a surname from Valle de Mena, Burgos. I won't have my results until August though.
Armando
Armando,
Is music to my ears to hear the name Valmaseda (=Balmaseda). My father-in-law, Jose Maria Ibarreche grew up there (he was born nearby). Its a beatiful Basque town just south of Bilbao, and the frontier of Viscaya with Burgos. I was told that it was never conquered by neither by the Moors or the Spaniards. The Romans constructed a beautiful Roman bridge over the river (I got a painting of it at home by one of my wife's aunts). On one side the bridge faces Valmaseda, and on the other, land at one time dominated by the moors. On that side, the moors added a tower to the bridge that is filled of inscriptions in arabic. I guess it served as a customs office to document trade between the two 'nations' at the time. You should visit it one time, the whole area is very rugged and beautiful.
What is the surname of your ancestors from that area?
Jaime Alvarado
----- Original Message -----
From: arman212@sbcglobal.net
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thursday, July 2
Hi Ed, Thanks very much for the reply. I have been in touch with Gary and found him to a warm, helpful person who is always ready to answer a question how ever silly. A couple of comments on your post though, I have no problem with the possibility of Jewish ancestry, but this marker (E-V13) according to research is an ancient non Semitic Mediterranean marker found in it's highest levels in the Balkans, specifically among Albanians . Please don't misunderstand this explanation as a desire to prove no Jewish ancestry, rather a clarification. I’d be proud of my ancestors if they were Martians. As for Berber ancestry, the Berbers do belong to a very specific E sub clade which is E-M81, called specifically the Berber marker, it is present in over 90 percent of Berber men. My group is found at it's lowest levels in North Africa, according to some studies as low a 0.09 percent. E-M81 is found at moderate levels in Spain, E-V13 is found at very low levels in Spain. There is no such thing as a
Robert,
I am not saying your genetic data suggests a Jewish ancestry, only that it is a possibility, like many other possibilities, which is the problem with all this Y-DNA data. Yes, DNA does not lie, but it may not give you the truth of what happened, e.g. an illegitimate birth. Jews are a culture, a religion, a way of living; it is not a specific genetic type, although there are certain genetic types that were Jews. I try to not mix genes with cultures and religions but it is often not possible to mention one without mentioning the other.
Sangre limpia is an interesting concept, laughable when you consider Spanish history, which is a land that is one of the earliest mixing pots in the world. I have read, perhaps erroneously, that the blue bloods of Spain thought themselves to be of Visigoth extraction, which is bizarre since the Visigoths made up a such a short period of time in Spanish history.
Sangre limpia. Mexico adds another two layers of New World admixture: Black African
The Visigoths still exist today, in Spain and Spanish America. Spaniards are a mixture of Europeans, Celtic, Goth (Germanic) Suevic, Nordic and many more. The south tends to exist the Jewish and Arabic connection. While the north tends to be more of that Catholic blood. Essentially the Spaniards of today are the visigoths of the past. Limpieza de Sangre is a difficult thing to explain at times and very harsh to hear, essentially its to 'whiten' oneself and their descendants. This usually happened when a mestizo child (that of a European and Native American) essentially that Mestizo would marry white to make a castizo and then castizo married white again to make full European, hiding its Native American genes, from then on they would keep marrying other Spanish. If a mestizo would come along one day the whole process would repeat. A perfect example of Limpirza de Sangre would be our Moctezuma connection, Isabel married Hernan Cortes, Leonor married Valderrama, then Petronila married
Hi Mendez, very interesting post. I've never had the pleasure of visiting my father's birthplace, San Jose De Bazarte in Los Altos. My great grandfather is buried under the alter in the small church there, from what I hear my family were haciendados who were one of the first spanish familes to settle there. I have pictures of them and they were all tall, blonde haired and blue eyed except for my grandfather who was tall, but had jet black hair. They were all horsemen, as many in Los Altos are, according to my grandmother, the Gonzalez's lived in the saddle.
They did also intermarry with their 2nd and 3rd cousins of the Casillas clan, which is also very interesting. Another interesting note, I read in a study that when the Visgoths migrated out of there original homeland, one of the stops they made before ending up in Spain was the Balkans, where my DNA Haplogroup is found in high numbers. It's also noted via historical evidence that other non gothic groups joined them on their
Here is the link to a PDF I talked about in a previous link, It's very informative. Check it out: sd-1.archive-host.com/membres/up/.../ThegeneticlegacyallGraphs.pdf
Robert, the link info was cut out in the middle. The complete link is http://sd-1.archive-host.com/membres/up/134696768219527874/ThegeneticlegacyallGraphs.pdf
It is a good map with good pie charts but it lacks an explanation of the data.
El enlace al mapa de ADN en España faltaba "134696768219527874" asi que la dirección completa es http://sd-1.archive-host.com/membres/up/134696768219527874/ThegeneticlegacyallGraphs.pdf
Es un buen mapa con gráficas circulares aun falta una explicación de la información.
Armando
Hey Mando, Thanks for fixing the link ! The chart shows the frequency of specific haplotypes in the different regions of Spain. The last bigger pie graph at the bottom shows the haplotypes associated with Sephardic heritage by percentage in the countries of Spain,Portugal, Greece ,Bulgaria etc. As you can see, the most frequent haplotypes associated with Jewish heritage are J2,J and G...followed by R1b. Does this mean that everyone who has these haplotypes are Jewish ? Absolutely not... just as it doesn't mean that there are no Jewish E1b1b's. The specific E subclade assosiated with the Sephardim is V-22. Thanks ! Robert~
Hi Robert,
We most be related, my grandma's last name is Casillas, from Los Altos, Alcala Casillas. Your paragraph seems to describe what I have from my mom about her family.
Gabriela
> To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: gandalf3.1@netzero.com
> Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 12:11:39 -0700
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Y DNA \ Los Altos
>
> Hi Mendez, very interesting post. I've never had the pleasure of visiting my father's birthplace, San Jose De Bazarte in Los Altos. My great grandfather is buried under the alter in the small church there, from what I hear my family were haciendados who were one of the first spanish familes to settle there. I have pictures of them and they were all tall, blonde haired and blue eyed except for my grandfather who was tall, but had jet black hair. They were all horsemen, as many in Los Altos are, according to my grandmother, the Gonzalez's lived in the saddle.
>
> They did also intermarry with their 2nd and 3rd cousins of the Casillas
Hi Gabriela and Robert, I am also Casillas y Cabrera, HAHA, everyone is related after all this time. Wonder how they started, did the first families meet and just decided "Let marry each other". Ive always had the curiosity. -Daniel
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Hi Gabriela, you never know ! We could be related ! I worked construction with a man from Jalisco, he said that all the altenos were related in one way or another,he also said everyone in the state of Jalisco knew that those from Los Altos were gauchupines \ Spaniards or Europeans. Hope I spelled that right ! What part of Los Altos is your family from ? regards, Robert~
We have to be careful with that word, not sure if that man said that word but Gauchupines in Mexico is the quivalent of saying "stupid white person". I know many people would get offended if called that, I know I would. It was a word to discriminate against Mexicans of European descent. As to the alteñs, yes everyone is related, ca. 1602 is when everyone starting intermarrying. Little did they know that within 50-100 years everyone wiould be related, creating a really small gene pool. Thus not having much hcance of marrying someone out from your blood. -Daniel
> To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: gandalf3.1@netzero.com
> Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 15:39:28 -0700
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Y DNA \ Gonzalez \ Casillas
>
> Hi Gabriela, you never know ! We could be related ! I worked construction with a man from Jalisco, he said that all the altenos were related in one way or another,he also said everyone in the state of Jalisco knew that those from Los Altos were gauchupines \
Hi Daniel, He knew exactly what the word ment, although he said it with a smile on his face . He felt that Altenos were a bit too haughty for is taste , too proud. I'm not familar with the way people from the different states or pueblos of Mexico interact with each other, but I've learned some since then. Robert ~
Hey Daniel:
I was born, raised in Mexico til' I was about ten, and then again as an
adult, I lived in Mexico for ten years. My experience is that the word "
Gachupin" was used exclusively for Spanish people. Not used for all "white"
people as you state, there are other names for them, not very nice, I might
add.
A quick look on the internet will give you the following definitions:
1.Gachupin=Spanish established in Mexico or Guatemala.
2.Name given in Mexico to a native of Spain, who in Lima is called
"Chapeton", and in Buenos Aires, "Maturrango" (SpanishDict.com)
Google and Yahoo both, translate it as Gachupin=Gachupin
3.Oxford Spanish Dictionary, Third Edition:
"Gachupin" m (Mex pey) Spaniard.
My note: "pey" above stands for perjorative.
In Sonora we had a friend from Oviedo and he told me that in Spain gachupin
meant "horseman" I have no idea how true that is, but I had no reason to
doubt him.
Ask your grandfather, he'll probably knows the origin of the word.
John
Hey Primo, That's what I always thought, gauchpin referes to the Spaniards, it seems to refer to their spurs, or a corruption of the word the indigenous peoples used for spur, so yes, it eludes to them being horsemen.
Más definiciones de gachupín, coincidentes todas.
Gachupin, Cachupín. Español establecido en América. [Diccionario de la Lengua Española. 21era. edición. Real Academia Española. Madrid, 1992]
Gachupín, na. (del mexicano cactli: zapato, y tzopina: punzar, picar) Español, el natural de la península española. [Diccionario de americanismos. 3ra. edición. Augusto Malaret. Emecé Editores. Buenos Aires, 1946]
Gachupín. Nombre dado en México a los españoles. [Diccionario de Aztequismos. Antonio Robelo. México, 1904]
En México se usa, actualmente y las más de las veces, en sentido peyorativo. He aquí un refrán (anotado por Malaret): "Gachupín en hacienda, siempre contienda".
Y con el mismo sentido, unos versos (anotados por Robelo):
"Hoy en México a nosotros
Nos tratan ya con cariño,
Pues en vez de gachupines
Nos llaman gachupincitos."
Sin ánimo de contender, en México no se ha elegido aún a ningún afroamericano como presidente de la república tal como recién
Gracias para el verso. Me recordaba de los dichos chistosos de mi abuelo.
Gachupin era una palabra nueva para mi. Consulte con mi experto personal de
espanol--mi padre--el me dice que esa palabra es mas como "pocho" en nivel
de peyorativismo, en vez de "gringo", que tenga menos.
In Colonial Mexico, a *gachupin* was a person born to two Spaniards in
Mexico. This was to differentiate them from the *peninsulares *or
Spaniards born in Spain who monopolized the higher government offices. Just
being born in Mexico made them somehow inferior to the Spanish born. This
was the class that eventually fomented the War of Independance against the
Spanish in the 1820s
But what do I know, to my Mexico City relatives, my grandfather and us are
just a bunch of
*gabachos*!
Eric Robledo Edgar
On Mon, Jul 6, 2009 at 6:33 PM, John Gonzalez 1gnzlz@verizon.net> wrote:
> Hey Daniel:
>
> I was born, raised in Mexico til' I was about ten, and then again as an
> adult, I lived in Mexico for ten years. My experience is that the word "
> Gachupin" was used exclusively for Spanish people. Not used for all "white"
> people as you state, there are other names for them, not very nice, I might
> add.
>
> A quick look on the internet will give you the following definitions:
>
> 1
hola,
"Gachupin" is to spanish people the same that "gringo" is to americans
2009/7/6 Daniel M�ndez del Camino
>
> We have to be careful with that word, not sure if that man said that word
> but Gauchupines in Mexico is the quivalent of saying "stupid white person".
> I know many people would get offended if called that, I know I would. It was
> a word to discriminate against Mexicans of European descent. As to the
> alteñs, yes everyone is related, ca. 1602 is when everyone starting
> intermarrying. Little did they know that within 50-100 years everyone wiould
> be related, creating a really small gene pool. Thus not having much hcance
> of marrying someone out from your blood. -Daniel
>
> > To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> > From: gandalf3.1@netzero.com
> > Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 15:39:28 -0700
> > Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Y DNA \ Gonzalez \ Casillas
> >
> > Hi Gabriela, you never know ! We could be related ! I worked construction
> with a man from Jalisco, he said that
You're right about the word Gauchupines, when I was in Jerez someone used it and it was as a put down. I did find it interesting that prejudice exists in Mexico just as in other countries. I guess the feelings against the original Spaniards are alive and well after 500 years but oppression is hard to get by and has a long memory.
Linda in B.C.
--- On Mon, 7/6/09, Daniel M�ndez del Camino wrote:
From: Daniel M�ndez del Camino
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Y DNA \ Gonzalez \ Casillas
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Monday, July 6, 2009, 4:23 PM
We have to be careful with that word, not sure if that man said that word but Gauchupines in Mexico is the quivalent of saying "stupid white person". I know many people would get offended if called that, I know I would. It was a word to discriminate against Mexicans of European descent. As to the alteñs, yes everyone is related, ca. 1602 is when everyone starting intermarrying. Little did they know that within 50-100 years
I thought Limpieza de Sangre meant that seminarians had to prove they had no Muslim or Jewish blood before they were allowed to take holy orders. I guess at first only Europeans were allowed to be priests? I see that there are microfilms of records of those proceedings. In Mexico, you have many Indio or Mestizo priests, not just white priests. By what date was that Limpieza de Sangre business put to rest officially?
Emilie
Port Orchard, WA
----- Original Message -----
From: Daniel M�ndez del Camino
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 10:23 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Y-DNA and Jews
The Visigoths still exist today, in Spain and Spanish America. Spaniards are a mixture of Europeans, Celtic, Goth (Germanic) Suevic, Nordic and many more. The south tends to exist the Jewish and Arabic connection. While the north tends to be more of that Catholic blood. Essentially the Spaniards of today are the visigoths of the past. Limpieza de
Un comentario a todos los compañeros, no todos entendemos el ingles, de tal manera que no participamos aun teniendo ganas y datos que aportar a los distintos temas, sugerencia no podrian tambien escribirlos en español y asi aumentar el numero de participantes en las discuciones.
Saludos cordiales
Antonio Santillan
> From: auntyemfaustus@hotmail.com
> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 12:17:46 -0700
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Y-DNA and Jews
>
> I thought Limpieza de Sangre meant that seminarians had to prove they had no Muslim or Jewish blood before they were allowed to take holy orders. I guess at first only Europeans were allowed to be priests? I see that there are microfilms of records of those proceedings. In Mexico, you have many Indio or Mestizo priests, not just white priests. By what date was that Limpieza de Sangre business put to rest officially?
>
> Emilie
> Port Orchard, WA
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Daniel M�ndez
I agree with Antonio Santillan. I do not speak Spanish, even though
my father was born in Jalisco. It was forbidden in our house (except
when he and my mother had secrets not for children's ears). It is
difficult to follow everything on this list unless a person is
bilingual. My fondest wish would be to have a translating angel who
would magically translate all the emails into both Spanish and
English so we could all participate in whatever discussion interests
us. Valuable information would not be missed.
Maybe, one of these days, there will be such an invention for the net.
Linda
On Jul 3, 2009, at 5:03 PM, general-request@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
wrote:
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 23:32:10 +0000
> From: Antonio Santillan
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Y-DNA and Jews
> To:
> Message-ID:
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
>
> Un comentario a todos los compa?eros, no todos entendemos el
> ingles, de tal manera que no participamos
Linda,
why forbidden?
Stella
-----Original Message-----
From: Linda
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Fri, Jul 3, 2009 3:57 pm
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Y-DNA and Jews
I agree with Antonio Santillan. I do not speak Spanish, even though my father was born in Jalisco. It was forbidden in our house (except when he and my mother had secrets not for children's ears). It is difficult to follow everything on this list unless a person is bilingual. My fondest wish would be to have a translating angel who would magically translate all the emails into both Spanish and English so we could all participate in whatever discussion interests us. Valuable information would not be missed.?
?
Maybe, one of these days, there will be such an invention for the net.?
?
Linda?
?
On Jul 3, 2009, at 5:03 PM, general-request@lists.nuestrosranchos.org wrote:?
?
> Message: 3?
> Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 23:32:10 +0000?
> From: Antonio Santillan ?
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Y-DNA and Jews
I'm a different Linda but we had the same rule in our family, No Spanish unless it was a secret plus my grandparents would tell us," you're an American so speak English!) I know that they thought they were helping us to fit by not having a Spanish accent when we spoke English. Our town was very divided racially and all any parents want's is the best avenue for their children so I'm not angry or fell cheated. I did take it in high school but found when you don't use it you loose it! When I went to Mexico they laughed at my slow broken Spanish but appreciated that I did try. My family immigrated in 1916 from Jerez and both grandparents became citizens and spoke English to all the grandchildren.
LInda in B.C.
--- On Fri, 7/3/09, sjlstar@aol.com wrote:
From: sjlstar@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Y-DNA and Jews
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Friday, July 3, 2009, 4:11 PM
Linda,
why forbidden?
Stella
-----Original Message-----
From: Linda
To: general@lists
That's funny.
I'm glad I've broken that tradition. The problem now, I feel guilty using it, and slow learning..
That langauge just won't stayed. Gosh! When visiting Mexico, people notice my problem.
They alway pointed out "What's your last name again? And I respond by speaking in German.
I get the last laugh seeing their lost expression!!
My elder said, no Spainish. But they didnt say "no" to other langauges.
Keep trying...
Robert R P25+
P.S..> http://www.euroresidentes.com/translation/spanish_english_translation.h…
________________________________
From: Erlinda Castanon-Long
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Friday, July 3, 2009 6:25:34 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Y-DNA and Jews
I'm a different Linda but we had the same rule in our family, No Spanish unless it was a secret plus my grandparents would tell us," you're an American so speak English!) I know that they thought they were helping us to fit by not having a Spanish accent when we spoke English. Our
The primary and secondary language issue is complex. Both my parents are from Mexico, however, my first language was English, yet I am bilingual. When they immigrated to the US in the late 1940's they moved into the "anglo" side of town for the better schools and witnessed the difficulty my older brother had and vowed they would try to make life easier for me when I was born 15 years later. They spoke to me primarily in English, but continued to use Spanish amongst themselves. My MA is in second language acquisiton and learning, and I now know why it worked. At any time in our lives we all acquire language in the same process: listening, understanding, and speaking. I didn't speak Spanish until I was about 18 because of the lack of necessity and opportunity in my neighborhood and educational situation. However, when I decided to make the effort to speak Spanish, it did come and I am able to speak both languages without an accent. So you don't necessarily lose it if you don't
My house was different...my daddy was a white and mom from totatiche mexico.....mom spoke no english and dad spoke no spanish (few words here and there).......my sister and I are both fully bilingual.........but now using english more and speaking spanish only when I am at work or with my mom........I feel I am just losing my spanish....?????? :-(
Stella
-----Original Message-----
From: AliceBB
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Sat, Jul 4, 2009 9:04 am
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Y-DNA and Jews
The primary and secondary language issue is complex. Both my parents are from
Mexico, however, my first language was English, yet I am bilingual. When they
immigrated to the US in the late 1940's they moved into the "anglo" side of town
for the better schools and witnessed the difficulty my older brother had and
vowed they would try to make life easier for me when I was born 15 years later.
They spoke to me primarily in English, but continued to use Spanish amongst
Its ironic...My family has been in the States for 3 born generations(and the
crossover generation before that). My grandparents, first generation(at
least..on my grandma's side..dunno much about my grandfather's side) born
here, speak/spoke it but also are native english speakers. My mother and my
aunts/uncles all were taught English and didn't learn Spanish(for those that
know it now) until high-school or college or just curiosity as adults. As
far as my mother goes, she has some understanding ability but no speaking
ability whatsoever. She's as bleached as they come. Myself and my brothers
have learned Spanish only through high-school, although I personally took
only 2 years and have a very weak vocabulary and crippled grammar. In
university, I took up the study of Hebrew instead of continuing with
Spanish(and its funny because I'm in San Diego).......When intoxicated I
tend to randomly pick either tongue to express myself, sometimes both.
As for the topic of Jewish DNA....I'm
Linda,
My Dad was also from Jerez, and he would have liked his children to speak Spanish, but my mother was a Native of New Mexico, and they spoke a dialect all their own that my father did not like and that Mexicans made fun of, so we preferred English to get ahead faster as Americans. We just did not need Spanish, anymore than most Mexicans have no need to learn English.
I don't see the problem with using the online translation services. When I use those to translate from Spanish to English, it is like a robot speaking, the syntax is weird, but at least I get the gist of what is being said.
Emilie
Port Orchard, WA
----- Original Message -----
From: Erlinda Castanon-Long
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Friday, July 03, 2009 5:25 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Y-DNA and Jews
I'm a different Linda but we had the same rule in our family, No Spanish unless it was a secret plus my grandparents would tell us," you're an American so speak English!) I know
HaHa, my step grandmother is from New Mexico, I love her Spanish, New Mexico Spanish sounds kinda like Spanish from Los Altos de Jalisco, its like my grandpa says, "así es como nos quedo" referring the majority of Spanish blood in Los Altos, so oviously how they spoke reflects how we speak today. Its possible another reason why New Mexico sounds like Los Altos, because they received large number of alteños. It has a ring or whistle thingy, not sure how to describe it. Her family is one of the oldest families who settled New Mexico, "de Durán y Chávez."
-Daniel
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Yes, it could be that people who were isolated in the earlier centuries like the New Mexicans were, and maybe in the Altos too, continued to speak Spanish the way it was spoken in earlier times. My friend from Spain told me that my mother used words that she knew were from the 18th century, and they did speak in a nasally tone, and skipped some consonents--for example, they would say "hequia" for hacequia (ditch?) and words ending in "ado" were pronounced as "ao".
Emilie
Port Orchard, WA
----- Original Message -----
From: Daniel M�ndez del Camino
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Saturday, July 04, 2009 11:44 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Y-DNA and Jews/Spanish Language
HaHa, my step grandmother is from New Mexico, I love her Spanish, New Mexico Spanish sounds kinda like Spanish from Los Altos de Jalisco, its like my grandpa says, "así es como nos quedo" referring the majority of Spanish blood in Los Altos, so oviously how they spoke reflects how we
I found this thread very interesting to read. I myself do not speak spanish even though my parents did (mostly talking about us kids at the dinner table) I understand a few words here and there, but not much. It surprised me to learn that my mothers father who was from the old Californio families was not raised speaking spanish until he met my grandmother who was from Durangom, Mexico.
I was born and raised in the eastern part of Los Angeles county and my father did not want his children to learn spanish for fear we would be discriminated against. We did not live in the barrio like my grandparents (my Los Altos ancestors), but on the north end of town in a middle class neighborhood, in an all Caucasian neighborhood. I have heard stories regarding my great uncles who applied for work with the county of L.A. and were not hired due to their ethic background. The 1930's was also a time in this county where Mexican/Americans were being deported to Mexico even though they were born in the
Hi Linda, Emile, Alice et al.
I am shocked and interested in this new topic, ive been following it. My parents, always told me to speak Spanish, no questions. I was able to learn English just fine, like any other 5 year old, you catch it once you begin to hear it. My mother always told me its okay to Americanize but never abandon your mother tongue. I even sound like I was born in Mexico, I was able to get my parents' 'accent'. I am grateful to my parents who gave the most beautiful language in the world, wouldnt change it for nothing, I learned to love spanish and use it. I always use it any chance I have which raises eyebrows sometimes. I think we all a number of stories.
-Daniel Méndez del Camino
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http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/119462413/direct/01/
Hi Daniel, I translated (Babelfish) for you.. it kinda makes you smile..
"Me dan una sacudida eléctrica y están interesado en este nuevo asunto, ive que lo sigue. Mis padres, siempre dichos me para hablar español, ningunas preguntas. Podía aprender la multa del inglés apenas, como cualquier otro 5 años, usted la cojo una vez que usted comienza a oírla. Mi madre siempre me dijo su autorización Americanize pero nunca abandonar su lengua materna. I incluso suena como mí nació en México, yo podía conseguir mi parents' ' accent'. Soy agradecido a mis padres que dieron la lengua más hermosa del mundo, no lo cambiaría para nada, aprendí amar español y utilizarlo. Lo utilizo siempre cualquier ocasión que tenga que levanta las cejas a veces. Nos pienso todas un número de historias."
--- On Sat, 7/4/09, Daniel M�ndez del Camino wrote:
From: Daniel M�ndez del Camino
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Y-DNA and Jews/Spanish Language
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Saturday, July 4, 2009
Wow this does make you laugh, I sort of understand it, the only thing I dont like about Translators is it gives a literal translation. Me dan una sacudida eléctrica actually says im being shocked literally instead of being shocked mentally. HAHAHA, Daniel
> Date: Sat, 4 Jul 2009 12:53:11 -0700
> From: longsjourney@yahoo.com
> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Y-DNA and Jews/Spanish Language
>
> Hi Daniel, I translated (Babelfish) for you.. it kinda makes you smile..
>
> "Me dan una sacudida eléctrica y están interesado en este nuevo asunto, ive que lo sigue. Mis padres, siempre dichos me para hablar español, ningunas preguntas. Podía aprender la multa del inglés apenas, como cualquier otro 5 años, usted la cojo una vez que usted comienza a oírla. Mi madre siempre me dijo su autorización Americanize pero nunca abandonar su lengua materna. I incluso suena como mí nació en México, yo podía conseguir mi parents' ' accent'. Soy agradecido a mis padres
I believe I mentioned, I never lost Spanish, just as a child had no practical use for it. By the time I attended UT I was able to place out of 21 hours of Spanish with a perfect score, so the language was there, only under utilized. This being an English-speaking nation, and English being one of the most sought after languages in the world for socio-economical reasons, I believe my parents absolutely did the right thing. They came to the US, as most people do, for its economic opportunities. I'd find it shocking if they had allowed me to enter school with an English language deficiency that would place me behind, as my older brother was. They never told me I couldn't or shouldn't speak Spanish, they wanted me to start my education here competing on a level playing field with regards to English. I'm sure that you're aware that at that time, being bilingual was not something that was particularly sought after here. It's funny that although my first language was English, culturally
Hi all,
Don't be surprised that many of us "older" first generation Americans
don't speak our parents mother tongue. My father was born in
Tepatitlan de Morelos in 1909. That was 100 years ago with 100 years
ago attitudes. He came to the States in 1923, following his older
brother who came a few years earlier. His brother settled in the
"Mexican neighborhood" of Milwaukee. My father raised his family in
the "Polish neighborhood". My father and his sister both married
Anglos, his brother married a Mexican. Dad told stories about his
family back in Mexico but most of the stories were fabricated. One
example was that his father or grandfather came from Spain. I've
traced his direct male ancestors back to around 1820 and they were
all born in Tepatitlan. So much for his pride in his heritage. It
was the "old way." As you can guess by my father's age, I am not a
spring chicken and learning a new language is not easy. I've picked
up enough to read
hi linda,
I am about to start my research for my Tepatitlan branch, I am going to look
for the marriges file of 1854, so I am almost sure I will be looking for the
film of bautisms you need, give me the exact data cross your fingers and
I´ll tell you my findings.
Well, my english is not quite good, I hope you undestand me, if you or
someone else need translation, and you settle with my english I will be glad
on doing it.
Patty Haro
On Sun, Jul 5, 2009 at 12:15 PM, Linda wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Don't be surprised that many of us "older" first generation Americans don't
> speak our parents mother tongue. My father was born in Tepatitlan de
> Morelos in 1909. That was 100 years ago with 100 years ago attitudes. He
> came to the States in 1923, following his older brother who came a few years
> earlier. His brother settled in the "Mexican neighborhood" of Milwaukee.
> My father raised his family in the "Polish neighborhood". My father and
> his sister both married Anglos, his
Hi Linda,
I've heard that there is a book called "Retonos de la Nueva Galicia" which contains the info you are referring to. I have been to Tepatitlan, I have heard that 113 families actually came from Spain to Los Altos and kept intermarrying as opposed to mixing with the indians. According to what I have been told, it was in the early 1500's.
Does anyone know about it??
Gabriela
> From: romero89@earthlink.net
> Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 12:15:17 -0500
> To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Y-DNA and Jews/Spanish Language
>
> Hi all,
>
> Don't be surprised that many of us "older" first generation Americans
> don't speak our parents mother tongue. My father was born in
> Tepatitlan de Morelos in 1909. That was 100 years ago with 100 years
> ago attitudes. He came to the States in 1923, following his older
> brother who came a few years earlier. His brother settled in the
> "Mexican neighborhood" of Milwaukee. My father raised his family
HI Gabriela not sure if we have communicated or met before? Im Daniel, the book is really what revolve around our genealogy, alot of us on here can trace our lineage to Los Altos. If you been to Tepatitlán or anywhere in Los Altos, you can tell, the majority are really white and tall, you can find from bright brown eyes to brightest blue eyes and anything in between, greenm grey, etc. From Brunettes, blondes and black hair. The book goes into detail about our appearance. I am a fellow alteño, i lived there for about a year when I was yournger but was born in the US. The reason why there is absence of mixing is because its so high up, hence Los Altos. Even my grandpa who married his second cousin said, Why need to go down when I can marry here. I always laugh at him, he's very funny. My mother's family came a little late Camino-Soto, to Mexico a little after the independence but once they got there they were able to assilimilate into alteño society pretty quickly. The first thing they
A long time ago, even before being aware of the possible Jewish family
Med/Semitic - E1b1b1
(http://www.ysearch.org/search_results.asp?uid=883H3&min_markers=8&misma…
ng_marker=8®ion=) 13 25 13 09 18 18 11 12 12 13 12 30 15 09 09 11 12 26
14 20 32 15 16 16 18
I have a memory working as deli waitress. Every single one of these
woman thought I was Jewish. I thought them sweet, as I thought that they just
wanted to relate to me. Personally, I have always thought I looked liked
the typical Mexican person....a bit of this, a bit of that...a face that all
would adopt.
As it turns out, there seems to be truth in the old adage "la sangre
llame".....and with the probing of family lineage, they admitted that indeed
they knew that they carried Jewish blood in them. (Nuevo Leon lineage).
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Hi Linda, Im Daniel Méndez del Camino Ive seen you a couple times and your posts, not sure if you know me. I dont think your father was wrong he is of Spanish blood, true, maybe his grandfather didnt come from Spain but his ancestors did. I was always told to be proud of your Spanish roots, we come from a great people, states my deceased grandmother when I was younger. I think thats what matters, we all should be proud of what makes us and who we are, nothing can change that. I am proud of my roots, Los Altos is a beautful place, the architecture is gorgeous and the food is very good.
_________________________________________________________________
Color coding for safety: Windows Live Hotmail alerts you to suspicious email.
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That saying explains the use of the images of knights, Germanic looking to me, in this video, which I like a lot. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBLgnIUMGPo
Esa frase explica el uso de las imagenes de caballeros medievales, que a mi parecen tipo Aleman, en el video, que me gusta mucho http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBLgnIUMGPo
Armando
Hi Armando,
I also love that 'Alteño' channel on youtube they post great videos on our culture. I remember as a child I would always be told of stories, 'Los conquistadores, El Cid, Don Quijote, El Rey, Alfonso I, La Conquista', Then old stories of the revolution. I think 'Los Altos' has a unique culture then the rest of Méjico, a region of one of a kind. Like my grandfather says, "Nunca olvidaremos nuestra Madre Patria, España". I was able to live in 'Los Altos' when I was 6 to abt 7 years old. So abt 8-9 months, it was the best experience to see my grandparents. The saying is true though eventhough we all come from the first (not sure if too say Spanish, b/c they were other Europeans too) families, all the 'alteños' were enemies at the same time. My grandfathers uncles and cousins killed each other in a duel in 1950. Over the love of their cousin and some personal hatred towards each other.
-Daniel Méndez del Camino
_______________________________________________________________
Hi Ed, please forgive me if my last post to you sounded a little pointed, It wasn't my intention and I do apologize if there was a misunderstanding. Of course I realize that our DNA is only a small percentage of the wider picture that makes us who we are , I also agree that DNA results cannot give us the truth of our families conception, here are two good examples ; When the Moors invaded Spain, many Hispano Goths and Hispano Romans converted to Islam so they could retain some of there lands and status. Were we do dig up the bones of one of these fellows and test their DNA it would not show that these men converted to Islam, as with Judaism, there is no Islamic gene. Now I do agree that DNA studies will give us a good picture of a group of people who in all likelihood may be of a certain faith, but we cannot say for sure. Also alot is made of the Celts in Spain. Recent genetic studies in Spain have proven that the true Celts left a very small imprint on the genetics of modern Spaniards
Robert,
Gee, what you say is very interesting, but, if like you say, "quick to label results as Jewish , Moorish, Celtic and so on. DNA predates any of the formation of these cultures", then why do the DNA studies? Mr. Greenspan of Family Tree DNA told me that he started the program to try to trace ancestry back to Moses and Aaron. If they can link you back to Cohen ancestry, then you are probably descended from Moses, or the priest class. He didn't say it in those words, but that is what I understood. There is a Catholic priest in New Mexico whose DNA linked him to the Cohen ancestors. He is proud of it. I guess he feels he is in the right profession by ancestry.
Also, my husband is what you would call an "alteno", tall, and very white. He knew that his mother's ancestors, the Acostas, had been very prominent Jews in Spain, then they converted to Catholicism when forced to; I guess they call them "maranos". When I was having my hair done in Mexico City once, the hairdresser
Hi Emilie , Thank for the reply, perhaps I should gone into a little more detail, my apologies. I am aware of the Cohen marker and yes, in some cases you can identify a specific ethnic group via DNA, absolutely. The issue I have is this, I will use my own group as an example. I know a bit more about it than others, the haplotype E contains varios sub clades, E-V13 and E-M81 are two I will use here to illustrate my point. E1b1b1a2, shorthand E-V13 is found at it's highest levels the Balkans, which includes Greece,Macedonia and Albania just to name a few Balkan countries. It is found at it's highest rates worldwide there, in someplaces as many as 47 percent of men have this marker, that is a staggering amount. Therefore, it can be speculated that the Ancient inhabitants of the Balkans, Illyrians, Macedonians and Thracians carried this marker, but it was inherited before the division of tribes, before there were such people as Thracians etc.
So here we see a marker that is common to
Hi Robert and Emilie et al. About Jews and Los Altos, there is some jewish origin in some families. One is the infamous case of the Padilla Dávila they have Jewish blood, not sure how but in Retoños I by Mariano Gonzalez Leal, it states that they were able to assilimate with the alteños eveenthough by law it was ilegal to marry a jew, because of herecy. I come from the Padillas at least once I believe So I guess I do have jewish connection. About looking Mexican thats absurd, I hate it when people say "you don't look Mexican" as if we all looked the same. Not sure why in Mexico, Europe and Latin America when someone thinks of a Mexican they usually picture the colonial, fair skinned person but in the US they picture a more Native American. I am Mexican and I always picture a fair-skinned person possibly due to the influence I had as a child to Los Altos. All my cousins look just like I do. Thats a shock and very offensive when people say I dont look Mexican. Mexico has all colors
Hey Daniel, it is crazy in regards to stereo typing any ethnic group and the way they look. It is true that most, but not all, of Anglo America thinks all Mexicans look and act the same. So many have no clue about the different groups that make up the modern Mexican, and forget about Spain ! George W. Bush himself thought Spain was located in South America ! One funny note about not looking hispanic \ latino is that on more than one occasion I've caught people talking about me or my wife in Spanish because they don't realize I SPEAK SPANISH ! When I reply to them in Spanish, the looks on their faces are priceless. Robert~
I have experienced the same. You just need to go to different regions in Mexico, there is no uniform "look" for a Mexican, so narrow-headed thinking.
Yo he tenido la misma experiencia (gente pinsa que no soy de Mexico y hace comentarios de Mexico o en Espanol, cuando respondo se sorprenden) . Solo se necesita viajar a las diferentes regiones de Mexico para darse cuenta de que no hay un solo "look" para los mexicanos (de todos colores y sabores), mente muy cerrada!
Gabriela
> To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: gandalf3.1@netzero.com
> Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 16:20:24 -0700
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Y DNA \ Daniel
>
> Hey Daniel, it is crazy in regards to stereo typing any ethnic group and the way they look. It is true that most, but not all, of Anglo America thinks all Mexicans look and act the same. So many have no clue about the different groups that make up the modern Mexican, and forget about Spain ! George W. Bush himself thought Spain was located in South
I agree Gabriels, I too have faced some difficult and have been hurt of comments people make. They assume Mexican is a certain look. I think they forget Europeans did immigrate to Mexico. I also think its people opinion what is Mexican to me, may not be Mexican too someone else. Where we come from in Los Altos, the usual Mexican will be have very European characteristics, hence ever since I was a child, that was a Mexicn for me since the influence and my family around, My friends today, have other views of what is MExican. Just like the US, Mexicano is a pluralcultural country, there are white, blacks, mestizos, etc. Its not good to be narrow minded. -Daniel
Hi Robert, I was always taught as a child, Hispanics/Latinos do not exist, I was always told we are all either white, black or asian or native American. Hence ehy I dont associate my self with Hispanic, its just another way to try to seperate spanish-speaking people from Anglo America. I was told I am white and Mexican. I think
Robert,
Thanks for sharing the info. It is interesting to learn about the results of these studies. I think it would be great if your post were translated to Spanish for those in México that participate in Nuestros Ranchos. What area of Jalisco, Zacatecas or Aguascalientes are your Mexican ancestors from?
Armando
Hi Armando ! Thanks for the reply, I'll do my best to translate my findings in to Spanish very soon. My father's people are from La Villa de San Jose de Bazarte in Los Altos,Jalisco , just outside of Tepatitlan.
Hi Robert,
This was not boring AT ALL. Thank you for taking the time to write out a
fuller explanation of your DNA findings. My grandfather (surname Torres) did
a DNA test which we then did a deep clade on and got the following results:
R1b1b2a1b; or shorthand: R-P312. According to this test, he came up negative
for most mutations (L21- M153- M222- M37- M65- P312+ P66- SRY2627- U152-),
except P312 which I thought was the least "descriptive." I would love any
additional information you or others may have on this DNA result.
-Esperanza
On 6/29/09 10:52 AM, "gandalf3.1@netzero.com"
wrote:
> Hello Everyone, seeing the post today in regards to Y DNA results, It
> occurred to me that I said I would share my results when they came in. Sorry I
> didn't do this sooner, although I'm sure no one was losing sleep over it ( HA
> !) My Y DNA results are E1b1b1a2 \ Shorthand E-V13. It is the 3rd most common
> haplogroup among European men and considered one of the core or founding
> groups in
Hi Robert:
I also belong to the same Haplogroup as you: E1b1b1- M35. I had my YDNA
analyzed by Genetree.for 36 markers. I am interested in comparing them to
yours to see how many we have in common. Could you please send me a copy of
your markers?
Thank you.
John Gonzalez
Wildomar, CA.
----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 10:52
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Y DNA Update
> Hello Everyone, seeing the post today in regards to Y DNA results...
Hi Primo ! I've tried to send you a screen shot of my results with no luck, you can see them on The Geneology of Mexico website though ! Keep in touch !
I've understood that the coat of arms was a first born to first born to
first born "thing".
I've understood that the coat of arms was a first born to first born to
first born "thing".
This is a message sent to me from a fellow ranchos member, Olivia
Jaurequi-Reyes.
joseph
======================
Joseph Puentes
NoMeat@h2opodcast.com
http://h2opodcast.com/vsse.html (Veg
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