Solicito la ayuda de los compañeros. Me he quedado atorado en la investigación de mis ancestros.
The basic Y-DNA 12 kit is on sale at FamilyTreeDNA.com for $59 until July 15.
HI,,,dumb question...i dont know much about my father,,,actually nothing,,,and apparently i descend from the guerrero family not so much the esquivel...anyhow,,the question is..which dna test should i
Ancestry is offering a $99.00 DNA test. Does any one have any thoughts on their new test?
Ancestry purchased a company called Genetree that did testing through
Sorensen labs. Familytreedna has the largest database and has more members
and more projects. It is the best place to get tested at the moment. FTDNA
has a special from now through July 15th.
http://www.yourgeneticgenealogist.com/2012/07/ftdnas-sizzling-summer-sa…
Armando
On Mon, Jul 9, 2012 at 10:35 PM, wrote:
> Ancestry is offering a $99.00 DNA test. Does any one have any thoughts on
> their new test?
I have used familytreedna for my Father and a maternal uncle.
Father: ydna Halogroup: I2b1 I-M223 and mtdna Halogroup A, waiting on results from snp test.
Uncle: ydna Halogroup: R1b1a2 R-M269
Familytreedna included all DNA markings/codes, halogroups, certificate, ancestral maps, and allows you to add additional tests, and makes it easy to join groups that your DNA applies to.
Ancestry.com had a promotion when they were going to launch DNA testing for current subscribers to test for $9.99 for a limited amount of participants so I had my son due this test. I was disappointed, even if I am very limited on my knowledge of DNA, they do not provide DNA markings/codes, halogroups, certificate only a pie chart & map and possible relations that subscribe to Ancestry.com only, I would recommend familytreedna. My son is now testing with familytreedna. Hope this helps.
Will you be doing a Deep Clade on your uncle for Haplogroup R1b1a2 R-M269?
He will probably be able to be placed farther down in the R1b tree. You can
see what it looks like here
http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_R1b_Y-DNA.shtml#R1b-subclades
Saludos,
Armando
On Tue, Jul 10, 2012 at 12:06 AM, wrote:
> I have used familytreedna for my Father and a maternal uncle.
> Father: ydna Halogroup: I2b1 I-M223 and mtdna Halogroup A, waiting on
> results from snp test. Uncle: ydna Halogroup: R1b1a2 R-M269
> Familytreedna included all DNA markings/codes, halogroups, certificate,
> ancestral maps, and allows you to add additional tests, and makes it easy
> to join groups that your DNA applies to.
> Ancestry.com had a promotion when they were going to launch DNA testing
> for current subscribers to test for $9.99 for a limited amount of
> participants so I had my son due this test. I was disappointed, even if I
> am very limited on my knowledge of DNA, they do not provide DNA
> markings
Me gustaria recibir los comentarios de los miembros de nuestros ranchos a
esta direccion de correo , se puede?
Hola a todos.
Soy de nuevo ingreso en este foro y quiero investigar la genealogia e historia del apellido Sanchez Castellanos (Hacienda del Cuidado, Zacatecas).
Juan Francisco Sanchez Alvarez
Hola, yo tambien estoy investigando a los Sanchez-Castellanos.
Juan Sanchez Castellanos se caso con Thomassina de Haro (Thomasina de Saucedo) el 27 de abril de 1634 en Tlaltenango, Zacatecas, cuando se caso el ya era viudo y venia de Jerez, Zacatecas tuvieron como hijos:
Maria,Joseph,Nicolas,Ursula, Manuel,Lorenzo,Juan y Manuel. todos nacidos en Tlaltenango, posteriormente muchos de mis ancestros aparecen ya como Monte Escobedo que antes pertenecio a Tlaltenango y los registros son alrededor de 1709.
Juan Sanchez Castellanos debio morir alrededor de 1649 ya que en el censo de 1650 en Tlaltenango ya solo aparece el rancho de Thomasina de Haro.
Ahorita revisando en los archivos de PARES encontre que en 1607 Manuel Sanchez-Castellanos vecino de Sevilla, España con su esposa Catalina de Caceres y sus hijos Juan, Diego, Ana y Lorenza viajaban a la provincia de la Nueva España y que iban a ser beneficiados por su tio Francisco Castellon y sus 2 primos
Hola Juan Francisco.
Agradezco tu respuesta y tu información. Tambien te aclaro que yo no soy decendiente de los Sanchez Castellanos, mas bien mi esposa. Actualmente he podido encontrar sus acendientes hasta la sexta generacion de su abuelo. El quinto se llamo Jose Manuel Sanchez Castellanos, se caso en Tlaltenango en 1759 y su padre se llamo Felipe Manuel.
Como ves, se repiten los nombres que mencionas. Es muy probable que exista conexion entre ellos. Espero poder encontrar mas informacion.
Saludos
Luis Alfonso Valdes
Juan Francisco Sanchez Alvarez
Tal vez este sea y su esposa fue Gertrudis Munoz?? y Gregorio Joseph su hermano??,
Groom's Name:
Gregoro Joseph Sanches
Groom's Birth Date:
Groom's Birthplace:
Groom's Age:
Bride's Name:
Rosa Maria Gonsales
Bride's Birth Date:
Bride's Birthplace:
Bride's Age:
Marriage Date:
07 Jun 1734
Marriage Place:
Tlaltenango De Sanchez Roman,Zacatecas,Mexico
Groom's Father's Name:
Phelipe Manuel Sanches
Groom's Mother's Name:
Gertrudis Munos
Bride's Father's Name:
Domingo Gonsales
Bride's Mother's Name:
Gregoria Magaiano
Groom's Race:
Groom's Marital Status:
Groom's Previous Wife's Name:
Bride's Race:
Bride's Marital Status:
Bride's Previous Husband's Name:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number:
M60713-9
System Origin:
Mexico-ODM
Source Film Number:
443968
Reference Number:
Luis Valdes
Hola Juan Francisco.
Probablemente sea el mismo Manuel hijo de Felipe Manuel, pero de otro matrimonio con Bernarda Nicolaza de Errera, segun su acta de matrimonio:
Groom's Name: Josseph Manuel Sanches Castellano
Groom's Birth Date:
Groom's Birthplace:
Groom's Age:
Bride's Name: Maria Bernarda Nicolaza De Errera
Bride's Birth Date:
Bride's Birthplace:
Bride's Age:
Marriage Date: 21 Feb 1759
Marriage Place: Tlaltenango De Sanchez Roman,Zacatecas,Mexico
Groom's Father's Name:
Groom's Mother's Name:
Bride's Father's Name:
Bride's Mother's Name:
Groom's Race:
Groom's Marital Status:
Groom's Previous Wife's Name:
Bride's Race:
Bride's Marital Status:
Bride's Previous Husband's Name:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M60714-1
saludos
Luis A. Valdes
Juan Francisco Sanchez Alvarez
Luis Phelipe Manuel tuvo 2 hijos a los cuales les puso Joseph Manuel Sanchez Castellanos Muñoz Y Joseph Manuel Sanchez Castellanos Sandobal no tengo los nombres de las esposas, pero se aceptan correcciones y criticas.
Juan Sánchez-Castellanos (≈1603-≈1649) vecino de Jerez viudo (Casó con Thomasina de Haro (Saucedo)) 27/abril/1634 en Tlaltenango
-Manuel Sánchez Castellanos de Haro (30/agosto/1634) (Casó con Josepha de Rodas en Tlaltenango)
---Juan Sánchez Castellanos de Rodas (05/marzo/1660)
---Rodrigo Sánchez Castellanos de Rodas (22/Feb/1662- + 1714) (Casó con Juana de Luna de Haro( ab 1664-?)(Juana López de Luna) 1684 Dispensa pag 112) Manuel y Josepha vecinos de Fresnillo.
-----Maria Sánchez Castellanos de Luna y Francisco del Muro de Arismendez Boda 31 de enero de 1714 en Jerez
-----Bartolome Sanchez Castellanos de Luna y Juana Maria Carrillo Hija natural boda el 26de agosto de 1716 Jerez
-----Phelipe Manuel Sánchez Castellanos de Luna (≈1686-
Joseph Manuel Sanchez Castellanos Sandobal se caso con Maria Bernarda Nicolaza de Herrera en Tlaltenango el 21 feb de 1759 (imagen No 228 del Film correspondiente?)
Saludos
Luis A. Valdes
Hola:
En mi arbol tengo como abuelo x8 a Vicente Sanchez Castellanos e Ysabel Escobedo. Aparecen como padres de Maria Teresa Sanchez Castellanos en su matrimonio con Manuel Justo de Robles el 2 de mayo de 1764 en Tlaltenango. Sabe alguien de ustedes quienes eran los padres de Vicente e Ysabel?
SALUDOS.
Chema
Juan Francisco Sanchez Alvarez
Yo tengo a un Vicente hijo de Nicolas Sanchez Castellanos y de Maria Bañuelos, Nicolas hijo de Juan Sanchez Castellanos y Thomasisa de Haro(Saucedo).
-Vicente Sánchez-Castellanos Bañuelos (?-1761) y Josefa del Muro (?-1715)
---Ysabel Sánchez Castellanos del Muro(Sta Theresa) y Juan Manuel Gamboa se casan (feb/1736)
-----Esteban Gamboa Sánchez Castellanos y Maria de Ulloa
-------María Luisa Gamboa Ulloa
-----Ynes Gamboa Sánchez Castellanos y ¿? Verumes
-Vicente Sánchez Castellanos Bañuelos e Ysabel Ruíz Esquivel (segundas nupcias)
---Juana Petronila Sánchez Castellanos Ruíz (Sta Rosa) y Francisco Xavier de Rubalcaba
Tal vez su segunda esposa era de Escobedo???
Todo esto en Monte Escobedo, Zacatecas.
Emilie,
I see that you mention some Llanos Valdes in your ancestors, I´m interested in that family because I´ve been tracing the roots of some very good friends from Morelia, Mex who are de
Attached is the link to the frenchman I was referring to who was from Jalpa Zacatecas and he married in Nochistlan.
Hi Alice,
This is interesting. It's my understanding that the French made their way to Jalpa during the Maximilian era. According to a wikipedia entry, parts of Jalpa were modeled in the French tradition.
What else can you tell me about your Olasava line? I stumbled upon "Felipa Olasava" in La Villita in the 1820 Census for Jalpa. I believe she is the mother of Lauriano Gonzalez, as these are listed under the same household and Felipa is listed first (there's no one else listed). You'll find the Olasava household in page 16 (1820-016-Jalpa.jpg) of the 1820 Census (Film # 168818): www.arturogonzalez.com/1820JalpaPadron.zip
A search for "Felipa Olasava" with a spouse with a "Gonzalez" last name let to 1779 wedding in Teocaltiche with Cristoval Gonzales Bermejo, https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/JCDS-YX9 . Do you think this is the same Felipa and are they related to your Olasava line?
I'd be very interested in knowing what you find.
Thanks,
Arturo
I cant seem to find any church records for Tomatlan, Jalisco. I heard the church had burned however am unsure if all records were lost.
Seldom do I get involved in interfering with a topic, but I was wondering if
there is an interest in setting up a subset of the group that would have
FULL rein to talk about anything absolutely
Hello Everyone,
I know this family line has been talked about before on here.
I was recently able to trace my great-grandmother's family all the
There is a rancho Coculiten due northeast of Momax that borders Jalisco, and my ancestors were born there but baptized in Momax. I wonder if it's part of Coculiten, Jalisco or the border changed over time or was not as defined, before? I will be in Zacatecas in a few weeks and will try to take pictures for all of us. Thanks.
Great, ask if this rancho was once called Rio de Cuculiten or Rio de
Coculiten and yes great question about if the border changed over time and
it was in Jalisco but is now in Zacatecas. Thanks for taking pictures,
Joseph
=========================
Joseph Puentes
Clean@h2opodcast.com
http://h2opodcast.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org [mailto:research-
> bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of eltobias2003@hotmail.com
> Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2012 4:55 PM
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Rancho de Coculiten
>
> There is a rancho Coculiten due northeast of Momax that borders Jalisco,
and my
> ancestors were born there but baptized in Momax. I wonder if it's part of
Coculiten,
> Jalisco or the border changed over time or was not as defined, before? I
will be in
> Zacatecas in a few weeks and will try to take pictures for all of us.
Thanks.
Hello,
Good luck on your trip. I would also like to see the photos. I can't waitbtonsome day visit. I've never been there but it's also part of my ancestors.
Best,
Pauline
On Jun 28, 2012, at 5:21 PM, "Joseph Puentes" wrote:
> Great, ask if this rancho was once called Rio de Cuculiten or Rio de
> Coculiten and yes great question about if the border changed over time and
> it was in Jalisco but is now in Zacatecas. Thanks for taking pictures,
>
> Joseph
> He
> =========================
>
> Joseph Puentes
> Clean@h2opodcast.com
> http://h2opodcast.com
>
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org [mailto:research-
>> bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of eltobias2003@hotmail.com
>> Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2012 4:55 PM
>> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
>> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Rancho de Coculiten
>>
>> There is a rancho Coculiten due northeast of Momax that borders Jalisco,
> and my
>> ancestors were born
Hello Everyone,
From what I have been able to research Rancho de Coculiten belongs
to the town of Momax wich is Zacatecas. Although it is very close
and might even cross into the state of Jalisco. I looked at a map
of the Tlaltenango area from 1776 from the Archivo General de Indias
site. It is difficult to read but it looks like it shows Coculiten
north of Momax also. I have also read the 1650 census of Tlaltenango
that is available at this site and towards the end, it makes a
reference to the ranch of Lorenzo Miramontes being also known as
Coculiten. It describes the ranch location around the same area as
well.
Gustavo
Do you have a scan of the Tlaltenango 1776 map or do you know how I can get
a scan of it? I'd very much like to make it available to the group.
Joseph
=========================
Joseph Puentes
Clean@h2opodcast.com
http://h2opodcast.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org [mailto:research-
> bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of sr92809@sbcglobal.net
> Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2012 9:18 PM
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Rancho de Coculiten
>
> Hello Everyone,
>
> From what I have been able to research Rancho de Coculiten belongs to the
town of
> Momax wich is Zacatecas. Although it is very close and might even cross
into the state of
> Jalisco. I looked at a map of the Tlaltenango area from 1776 from the
Archivo General de
> Indias site. It is difficult to read but it looks like it shows Coculiten
north of Momax also. I
> have also read the 1650 census of Tlaltenango that is available
Joseph,
I don't have a scan of this map. Don't know if you can
copy the documents from the PARES website. The document
number is MP-Mexico,314 from the Archivo General de Indias.
It's a handrawn map and some of the place names are
kind of hard to read.
Gustavo
Navigating the PARES website is pretty involved (and confusing!), so I thought I would post a few items that I came across as I tried to locate "MP-Mexico,314". A couple of times the webpage timed out or gave me an error, but the following worked for me.
The summary to the "MP-Mexico, 3" archive is found here
http://pares.mcu.es/ParesBusquedas/servlets/Control_servlet?accion=3&tx…
-To view the contents of the archive, click on the button "Contiene"
-To sort by archive number, click on the column "SIGNATURA"
Items with an image will have an icon of a camera at the you're at the webpage of interest, you can either right-click and save a copy of the map or print it. Several Archive items that I note as examples are 294 & 314:
1. Mapa de la Villa de Xerez de la Frontera y curatos de su jurisdiccion, situada en 23 grados de Latitud Norte. MP-MEXICO,294. 1773-02-26
http://pares.mcu.es/ParesBusquedas/servlets/Control_servlet?accion=4&tx…
Thanks Arturo for putting the maps up on the website. I've never been
patient enough to navigate the website so I miss out on a lot.
If others find gold nuggets that might be interesting to the group save them
to your computer, send them to me and we'll go about uploading to the
website.
Thanks again,
Joseph
=========================
Joseph Puentes
Clean@h2opodcast.com
http://h2opodcast.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org [mailto:research-
> bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of agon123@gmail.com
> Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2012 11:54 AM
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Rancho de Coculiten
>
> Navigating the PARES website is pretty involved (and confusing!), so I
thought I would
> post a few items that I came across as I tried to locate "MP-Mexico,314".
A couple of
> times the webpage timed out or gave me an error, but the following worked
for me.
>
> The summary to the "MP
You're welcome. I'll make a mental note of your family, and if I come across your family, I'll let you know. My Miramontes family goes back to the early 1700's, in the same area. Thanks.
Joseph, I will also look at your information. Many of my ancestors come from Coculiten, so hopefully are lineages cross, somewhere. Thanks.
Thank you guys for the replies. I found two or three children
for Ysidro Miramontes and Bernarda de Avila but did not see a
Teodoro so I'm not really sure.
My great-grandmother was born in Coculiten. Her name was
Tomasa Miramontes. She was baptized in Momax, Zac. on
Sep. 20, 1887. Her parents were Juan Miramontes and Refugio
Carlos.
Gustavo
That might be Coculiten, Jalisco which I think is closer to Momax, Zacatecas
than Cuculiten, Zacatecas. Not positive about that.
Joseph
=========================
Joseph Puentes
Clean@h2opodcast.com
http://h2opodcast.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org [mailto:research-
> bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of sr92809@sbcglobal.net
> Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2012 10:17 PM
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Miramontes
>
> Thank you guys for the replies. I found two or three children for Ysidro
Miramontes and
> Bernarda de Avila but did not see a Teodoro so I'm not really sure.
> My great-grandmother was born in Coculiten. Her name was Tomasa
Miramontes. She
> was baptized in Momax, Zac. on Sep. 20, 1887. Her parents were Juan
Miramontes and
> Refugio Carlos.
>
> Gustavo
Joseph,
The Coculiten I'm referring to is a ranch that belongs
to the town of Momax, Zac. I believe it used to belong
to Tlaltenango before Momax became it's own municipial
seat back in the 1800's. Anyway, it is located right on
one of the borders of Jalisco and Zacatecas. Where
exactly is yours located?
Gustavo
Well from this map
(http://josephpuentes.com/maps/GoodTepechitlan_Colotlan%20copy.jpg) it
appears as if your Coculiten is in Jalisco but it is probably in Zacatecas.
I think my Cuculiten is really Rio de Cuculiten closer to Tlaltenango but I
can't find it on a map but it is in the Census records for Tlaltenango.
Joseph
=========================
Joseph Puentes
Clean@h2opodcast.com
http://h2opodcast.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org [mailto:research-
> bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of sr92809@sbcglobal.net
> Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2012 10:32 PM
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Miramontes
>
> Joseph,
> The Coculiten I'm referring to is a ranch that belongs to the town of
Momax, Zac. I believe
> it used to belong to Tlaltenango before Momax became it's own municipial
seat back in
> the 1800's. Anyway, it is located right on one of the borders of Jalisco
and Zacatecas.
> Where
Do any of your Miramontes happen to come from a rancho called Rio de
Cuculiten in the Tlaltenango area?
I've updated my folder adding my information on my Miramontes from
Tlaltenango. I haven't done very much research on this line but Arturo Ramos
has written a book on the various families from this area. I've also update
my Leanos and Muro family trees in my folder:
http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/makas_nc
Ysidro and my Francisco probably new each other or were even cousins, maybe
we are too.
Joseph
=========================
Joseph Puentes
Clean@h2opodcast.com
http://h2opodcast.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org [mailto:research-
> bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of sr92809@sbcglobal.net
> Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2012 12:09 AM
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Miramontes from Tlaltenango
>
> Hello Everyone,
> I know this family line has been talked about before on here.
> I
Did Ysidro and Bernarda have a son named, Teodoro?
This is an automatically generated Delivery Status Notification.
Delivery to the following recipients failed.
--Forwarded Message Attachment--
F
Emilie,
Family Finder is $289. It sounds like that isn't what you wanted to hear.
You are confusing three different things mutations, nucleobases, and
haplogroups. The nucleobase T has nothing to do with the haplogroup T. A
mutation can be caused by placement of a nucleobase but the mutation won't
just be called T.
If an Olague never wants to test then you will never be able to tell what
their subgroup is. They are almost definitely R1b haplogroup since northern
Spain mostly belongs to that group.
My great uncles were bullfighters and my grandfather was a co-founder of
organized charrería in his hometown. My uncle invented the 6x20 rectangle
used in all charreadas for the cala de caballo. One uncle has been national
champion multiple times and another 2nd place in charro completo in
nationals.
Saludos,
Armando
On Fri, Jul 6, 2012 at 6:23 PM, Emilie Garcia wrote:
>
>
> Armando,
>
>
>
> Thanks again for explaining about the nucleobases not being the same as
> the haplogroups.
>
>
I have an image of a marriage record, but I am having trouble understanding the handwriting. Is there someone here who can translate the document for me.
Can you post the link to that record.
________________________________
From: "henricvs@gmail.com"
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Friday, July 6, 2012 6:23 AM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] I need help understanding old Spanish handwriting
I have an image of a marriage record, but I am having trouble understanding the handwriting. Is there someone here who can translate the document for me. I can read and understand Spanish, but the handwriting of this time is giving me a headache. I will email the file to anyone who is interested in helping. Thanks in advance.
I hope this works. Here is the link.
http://trees.ancestry.com/tree/21338015/person/1676944749/media/1?pgnum…
Oh, by the way, the entry is for the marriage of Juan de Chaves and Manuela Velasques.
Henry Chavez
Send it me. I will help.
-----Original Message-----
Date: Friday, July 06, 2012 6:20:07 am
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
From: henricvs@gmail.com
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] I need help understanding old Spanish handwriting
I have an image of a marriage record, but I am having trouble understanding the handwriting. Is there someone here who can translate the document for me. I can read and understand Spanish, but the handwriting of this time is giving me a headache. I will email the file to anyone who is interested in helping. Thanks in advance.
Juan, send me your email so I can send it to you. Or try the link.
http://trees.ancestry.com/tree/21338015/person/1676944749/media/1?pgnum…
Henry Chavez
Henry this is my email alvarezdmezcala@yahoo.com
________________________________
From: "henricvs@gmail.com"
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Friday, July 6, 2012 10:14 AM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Your email address
Juan, send my your email so I can send it to you. Or try the link.
http://trees.ancestry.com/tree/21338015/person/1676944749/media/1?pgnum…
Henry Chavez
Henry this is my email alvarezdmezcala@yahoo.com
________________________________
From: "henricvs@gmail.com"
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Friday, July 6, 2012 10:14 AM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Your email address
Juan, send my your email so I can send it to you. Or try the link.
http://trees.ancestry.com/tree/21338015/person/1676944749/media/1?pgnum…
Henry Chavez
Send it me. I will help.
-----Original Message-----
Date: Friday, July 06, 2012 6:20:07 am
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
From: henricvs@gmail.com
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] I need help understanding old Spanish handwriting
I have an image of a marriage record, but I am having trouble understanding the handwriting. Is there someone here who can translate the document for me. I can read and understand Spanish, but the handwriting of this time is giving me a headache. I will email the file to anyone who is interested in helping. Thanks in advance.
Les agradeceria su orientacion:
Para localizar informacion matrimonial de una pareja ¿cuanto tiempo atras se debe buscar con respecto a la fecha de Matrimonio?
debes de buscar hasta 3 meses antes del matrimonio y ni modo, imagen por
imagen, a menos que sea de Jalisco donde gracias a una compañera de
nuestros ranchos Claudia Casillas que ha hecho la gran obra de indexarlas
en esta página.
http://www.guadalajaradispensas.com
2012/7/5
> Les agradeceria su orientacion:
>
> Para localizar informacion matrimonial de una pareja ¿cuanto tiempo atras
> se debe buscar con respecto a la fecha de Matrimonio?
> ¿Solo se puede encontarar abriendo imagen por imagen? Saludos a todos
> Luis A. Valdes
Luis Valdes
Gracias Martha, pude encontrar la informacion, afortunadamente era de Jalisco y resulto facil.
Saludos
Luis A. Valdes
suertudo!!!, espero que te haya sido util para tu investigación!!! y mejor
agradecele a Claudia ella se aventó esa labor titanica junto con otros
compañeros de nuestrosranchos
2012/7/5
> Luis Valdes
>
> Gracias Martha, pude encontrar la informacion, afortunadamente era de
> Jalisco y resulto facil.
> Saludos
> Luis A. Valdes
ANNOUNCE DIGEST
****************************************
I was raised to say Mande Usted whenever my parents or elders called me.
Is your family from Valle de Gpe Jalisco
Rick.
Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 2, 2012, at 10:42 AM, "Gomezlucero, Irma" wrote:
>
> ANNOUNCE DIGEST
> ****************************************
> I was raised to say Mande Usted whenever my parents or elders called me. It was a sign of respect, but also good breeding (bien criado) per my mother. She would get disgusted whenever she would hear my cousins (who were also raised in the US) say "Que?" To respond, "Que" was considered rude and low class unless you were speaking to another kid.
> After taking countless Spanish classes in the US, I learned to say, "como?" but always reserved the Mande Usted for my elders. "Diga" somehow sounded a bit rude and condescending to me. It's almost like you're telling folks to spit it out and say what you want. My parents would never say this even to me as their child.
> I guess it varies from culture to culture. My parents are/were from Los Altos de Jalisco. I find that we're a bit more
No sé si ya se fijaron, pero como parece que todos hablamos español, voy a opinar esta vez en español que me sale mucho mejor.
Yo soy de los altos de Jalisco, y les platico mi experiencia:
A mí no me enseñaron a decir mande, supongo que de por aquí ha de ser como 50/50, y sí, muchos niños te corrigen cuando eres niño con "no se dice qué, se dice mande"
En estos lugares usar el usted, Don, o mande, significa respeto, pero además una cierta distancia, es un reconocimiento de que no somos iguales. Por edad, por dinero, por autoridad o por simple falta de confianza con alguien.
Algo normal (no regla) es que comiences tratando a alguien como "usted", y si se da cierto nivel de confianza o amistad, se pide que se hablen de tú (tutearse).
El responder "qué" cuando te llaman, puede sonar grosero, aunque se puede contestar qué, sólo que hay que tener cuidado con el tono al momento de responder.
Yo tengo la idea de que el mande usted tiene algo de sumisión, y no se debe de responder así de
I enjoyed reading all the comments re the phrase, "Mande ud?" but thought Luis Arturo Huerta's answer was best at explaining how my cousins and I, all born and raised in California, were taught.
In fact, a short memoir piece of mine, recently printed in the June 2012 issue of the online Latino magazine "Somos en escrito," begins with this same expression. To check it out, log onto http:somosenescrito.blogspot.com, and scroll down to "My Soldier." I hope you find it worth reading.
Gloria Delgado
Luis,
Me dio risa leer tu respuesta. Siempre me recuerdo de mi abuelita hablando de usted a los gatos. Me dijo que era un mexicanismo hablar así.
Laura Gonzalez
Yo vivo en Tepatitlán y puedo decir que el decir MANDE es una costumbre que se ha ido perdiendo con el paso del tiempo, sobre todo en la ciudad. Yo aún le hablo de MANDE a mis papás, por el respeto que merecen, lo mismo con mis abuelos.
Digo que se ha ido perdiendo sobre todo en las ciudades, porque a todos mis amigos se les hace un poco raro cuando me escuchan hablarles de usted a mis papás y sobre todo cuando me llaman y les contesto de MANDE, hasta para contestarles por teléfono les digo MANDE.
También puedo decir, que en la universidad una profesora de Contabilidad que estudió un tiempo en España nos contó que cuando estuvo en España ella también les hablaba de mande a sus profesores y que todos se quedaban asustados, porque en España el decir mande significaba estar a su disposición para cualquier cuestión.
Pero en si, yo amo decir MANDE a mis padres, porque siento que es una forma de demostrar el respeto que tengo hacia ellos.
Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.
Tepatitlán de Morelos
My family is mainly from Zacatecas and I grew up saying mande, not que or como because it was considered kinda low class. Suena feo, you know?
As a teacher, I deal with lots of Mexican parents, mostly from Michoacan, and if I remember correctly, they say mande as well.
Laura Gonzalez
You got me thinking, I think the proper answer when someone call your name
is "dime" or "digame".
Que? is kind of rude, and "Mande" is diminishing, so I recall how my
mother (She was very proper, a real LADY) answer an "Dime" o "Si, dime " or
a "digame usted" depending on the occassion but never como?
And I repeat again I am mexican living in Mexico City thats the way we use
it.
I hope you find this info useful.
Patricia Haro
On Mon, Jul 2, 2012 at 5:46 PM, wrote:
> My family is mainly from Zacatecas and I grew up saying mande, not que or
> como because it was considered kinda low class. Suena feo, you know?
>
> As a teacher, I deal with lots of Mexican parents, mostly from Michoacan,
> and if I remember correctly, they say mande as well.
>
> Laura Gonzalez
As a mexican living in México I can tell you that I always use ¿QUE? and my
parents never correct me, but I had a friend in the school that always told
me, "no se dice que?, se dice "mande".
But the one we NEVER USE, I had never heard it is ¿como? as and answer
when someone call you
Patricia Haro
On Mon, Jul 2, 2012 at 12:42 PM, Gomezlucero, Irma wrote:
>
> ANNOUNCE DIGEST
> ****************************************
> I was raised to say Mande Usted whenever my parents or elders called me.
> It was a sign of respect, but also good breeding (bien criado) per my
> mother. She would get disgusted whenever she would hear my cousins (who
> were also raised in the US) say "Que?" To respond, "Que" was considered
> rude and low class unless you were speaking to another kid.
> After taking countless Spanish classes in the US, I learned to say,
> "como?" but always reserved the Mande Usted for my elders. "Diga" somehow
> sounded a bit rude and condescending to me. It's almost like you
Hola a todos.-
Estoy buscando información del linaje de los apellidos Colores, Torres,
Contreras y Correa .
Victor,
Your surname of Aguirre, is also found in my husband's maternal ancestry,on both the paternal and maternal ancestry of his mother's lines. They were mainly from Nochistlan, Zacatecas...
The surnames of Torres and Contreras also appear in these lines...The surname of Colores/z does not appear in my data base.
The surname Torres - Angela Torres (6th ggmother; Francisca Balbinia Mercado Torres; Ygnacia Mercado Torres; Angela Augstina Mercado Torres; Christobal Mercado Torres; Candida Susana Rodrigues Torres 94th ggmother); Leonisio de Torres... and many more...
Surname Aguirre - (just to name a few) -
Maria Aniseta Losano Aguirre bapt 1829 Nochistlan, Zacatecas
Maria Senovia Aguirre
Jose Timoteo Aguirre
Joseph Leonicio Contreras Aguirre Feb 1761 Nochistlan
Nicolas Aguirre
Cecilio Aguirre
Agustin Aguirre
Maria Cacimira Aguirre
Juan Francisco Contreras Aguirre Feb 1747- Nochistlan
Maria Salome Contreras Aguirre
If you see any connections, just let me know. I am more
Victor C.
Hola a todos.-
Alguien me podria ayudar a realizar la busqueda de la ascendencia Colores, ya que son nuevo en esto y me gustaria que me dieran algunos tips para continuar con la busqueda de la familia.
De antemano agradezco su ayuda y asesoria.
Saludos.-
Victor C.
hola Victor,
Hay que empezar por el principio, con los nombres de tus padres y de sus
padres y de sus padres y asi te vas, si tienes fechas y lugares de
nacimiento mucho mejor, un acta de nacimiento o bautismo sería maravilloso,
ya con los nombres empezamos a buscar en línea, ya que cuentes con esos
nombres ponlos aqui y te empezamos a encaminar...
2012/7/4
> Victor C.
>
> Hola a todos.-
>
> Alguien me podria ayudar a realizar la busqueda de la ascendencia Colores,
> ya que son nuevo en esto y me gustaria que me dieran algunos tips para
> continuar con la busqueda de la familia.
>
> De antemano agradezco su ayuda y asesoria.
>
> Saludos.-
>
> Victor C.
Arturo Ramos
Como comenté en el anterior, el libro del padre Ibarrola contiene un capítulo sobre los Llanos Valdés en Michoacán, ahí menciona que a fines del s. XVIII llegó a Valladolid como prebendado de la catedral y procedente del Real de la Sierra de Pinos el presbitero Don Jacinto de Llanos Valdes acompañado de un sobrino nieto : Don Clemente de Jesus Erazo y Llanos Valdes que llegó a ser ministro del supremo tribunal de Michoacan; la hija de éste , Doña Gertrudis de Erazo y Llanos Valdés casó con el Lic. Francisco Contreras Madrid de la Rocha nacido en Guanajuato y ambos son los troncos de una meritoria familia de la capital michoacana que tengo el gusto de conocer.
Habiendo leído las investigaciones de Don Salvador Cabral y de Don Arturo Ramos, encuentro que Don Jacinto de Llanos Valdés debio ser hijo de Don Juan Jose Llanos y Valdes Ramos Arreola ya que el padre Ibarrola dice que era hijo de Juan de Llanos y Valdes y de Agustina Carlos de Godoy y Velasco, y nieto de Juan Jose de Llanos y
Salvador:
Como dices estos Valdes del libro de Don Esteban Valdes Salazar son otros Valdes y no los Llanos y Valdes de los que descendiemos. Si hay alguna Llanos y Valdes que entra a la genealogia de Totatiche en una epoca muy temprana y queda tratada en el libro pero no como parte central de el, ya que el libro enfoca en los Valdes descendientes de tal Francisco Valdes que llega a Zacatecas de Espana a principios de los 1700s.
La Llanos y Valdes que aparece en la genealogia es la proxima:
http://www.ramosfamily.org/nextgen/getperson.php?personID=I585
Leonarda de Llanos y Valdes casada con Cayetano Gines de Urena
si a leonarda si la tengo como hija de Salvador, entronces Lorenza es hermana de Juan Jose es el Papa de Pedro Jose que menciona Don Nicolas en Juanacatic
en el caso de Salvador Llanos de Valdes es hermano de mis Anecestros Felipe y Catalina, de los pinedo tendras a Jose Miguel Pinedo Casado con Maria Candelaria Cabrera Casada mas o menos 1763
SALVADOR CABRAL VALDES
Te falta este hijo de Juan Jose
Relación de méritos y servicios del bachiller Marcos de Llanos Valdés, clérigo presbítero, cura propio por presentación real de la parroquia del Rincón (obispado de Michoacán), hijo de Juan de Llanos Valdés y de María de Comparán, vecinos de Valladolid de Michoacán.
ES.41091.AGI/1.16403.15.200//INDIFERENTE,206,N.4
en esta otra cita
- Juan de Llanos de Valdés, criado, natural de Cangas de Tineo
(Asturias), hijo de Pedro de Llanos de Valdés y de Inés Fernández
llego a mexico como criado del Obispo de chapas, no se si entendi mal
ES.41091.AGI/1.16404.42.3.208//CONTRATACION,5415,N.58
SALVADOR CABRAL VALDES
Salvador:
Tienes mas informacion sobre este Marcos? Fecha de nacimiento? Fue cura?
Nada mas la refrencia que marco en el correo, que la encontre en pares de españa,en ella marco el archivo donde esta, no se en cual de las dos refernecias que pongo existe documentos en linea
SALVADOR CABRAL VALDES
Carlos Peredo
Estimados Arturo y Salvador, es un gusto saludarles en éste foro en el que acabo de ser admitido, tengo además el gusto de informarles que tengo algunos datos sobre Don Marcos de Llanos y Valdés, mismos que encontré en el excelente libro "Familias y Casas de la Vieja Valladolid" del Sr. Prbro. Gabriel Ibarrola Arriaga, y es la siguiente :
"Llanos Valdés.
Dos familias de este apellido hubo en Valladolid de Michoacan, sin poder precisar la relación de parentesco que entre sí hayan tenido. La primera y más antigua fue la fundada por el Sr. Juan de Llanos y Valdés, originario de Asturias de Oviedo, camarero mayor del excmo Sr. Obispo de Michoacan, Fr. Alonso Enríquez y Almendáriz, quien tuvo por padres al Lic. Don Pedro de Llanos y Valdés y a Doña Inés Fernández y García....Don Juan de Llanos y Valdés casó el 24-feb-1624 en Valladolid con María de Camparán y fueron padres del Lic. Don Marcos de Llanos y Valdés cura por su majestad de los partidos de Irapuato y san Francisco
me gusto el formato de tu pagina familiar se aprecia bien a los ancestros
SALVADOR CABRAL VALDES
My apologies in advance. I'm sure this has been discussed/explained before, but this is the first time I've run across it. I'm trying to figure out exactly what would the relationship be in "terce
A marriage dispensation had to be given for the marriage to allowed. The relationship is usually not explained in detail in the marriage record but it usually is in the dispensation
Rick A. Ricci
Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 3, 2012, at 5:07 PM, Alice Blake wrote:
> My apologies in advance. I'm sure this has been discussed/explained before, but this is the first time I've run across it. I'm trying to figure out exactly what would the relationship be in "tercer conguanto de consanguinidad de que eran lejodos". There is no informacion matrimonial records available (or at least online) to offer more information on the couple, only the matrimonio. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks so much. Alice
Tercer con quarto
Tercer is second cousins
Quarto would be third cousins
Tercer con quarto would be like me marrying the daughter of my 2nd cousin
I thought an example would be the simplest way of explaining it. I hope this helps.
Rick A Ricci
Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 3, 2012, at 5:07 PM, Alice Blake wrote:
> My apologies in advance. I'm sure this has been discussed/explained before, but this is the first time I've run across it. I'm trying to figure out exactly what would the relationship be in "tercer conguanto de consanguinidad de que eran lejodos". There is no informacion matrimonial records available (or at least online) to offer more information on the couple, only the matrimonio. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks so much. Alice
It's how we would say here in the united states : 2nd cousins once removed
Rick A Ricci
Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 3, 2012, at 5:26 PM, mygenes2000@yahoo.com wrote:
> Tercer con quarto
> Tercer is second cousins
> Quarto would be third cousins
> Tercer con quarto would be like me marrying the daughter of my 2nd cousin
> I thought an example would be the simplest way of explaining it. I hope this helps.
> Rick A Ricci
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jul 3, 2012, at 5:07 PM, Alice Blake wrote:
>
>> My apologies in advance. I'm sure this has been discussed/explained before, but this is the first time I've run across it. I'm trying to figure out exactly what would the relationship be in "tercer conguanto de consanguinidad de que eran lejodos". There is no informacion matrimonial records available (or at least online) to offer more information on the couple, only the matrimonio. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks so much. Alice
Thanks so much, Rick. That's not as close as I was afraid of. And it confirms that my Ortegon's and Peres are related to these other Ortegon's, as they keep using the same first names for their children. Thanks again. Alice
--- On Wed, 7/4/12, mygenes2000@yahoo.com wrote:
From: mygenes2000@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] tercer conquanto
To: "research@nuestrosranchos.org"
Date: Wednesday, July 4, 2012, 12:26 AM
Tercer con quarto
Tercer is second cousins
Quarto would be third cousins
Tercer con quarto would be like me marrying the daughter of my 2nd cousin
I thought an example would be the simplest way of explaining it. I hope this helps.
Rick A Ricci
Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 3, 2012, at 5:07 PM, Alice Blake wrote:
> My apologies in advance. I'm sure this has been discussed/explained before, but this is the first time I've run across it. I'm trying to figure out exactly what would the relationship be in "tercer conguanto de consanguinidad de que eran
I uploaded an updated gedcom for my Romero/de la Torre line in Tepatitlan. It includes Romero y Chavez, Gomes Hurtado de Mendoza, Camarena, Pena, Romero and de la Torre in my direct line.
Hello,
There is an Amat family in the Pinos-Asientos-Aguascalientes-Ojuelos area that was also very well known and I have documented them, since they were very related to my mother´s side of the family. They kept close ties to Camino, Martínez de Sotomayor, Ruíz de la Peña and Díaz de León families. I wonder if they could very well be related. I noticed on your page that García de León family was tied to them. What you need to do is look for their marriage record in the mexico city films and find out who they´re parents were and where they came from. Mexico City is a very fun place to research, they kept extremely good records from 1766-1812 sometimes the marriage record will mention grandparents and the relation of the godparents and witnesses. Especially, if they were peninsulares, they would give a quick background on the person. Good luck!
Saludos,
Daniel Méndez de Torres Camino
Río de Janeiro, Brasil
Hello,
Thanks so much for your reply! I have looked up the marriage record of manual Cortez amat and nicolassa Vala, https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/JZFT-F8Q
But this does not list grandparents and I am not near a family history museum, should I contact the church? Also please send me any info on the amat family.
Thanks again,
This is for the person who posted the Organization info. For some reason I can not find your topic on here.
There is a de la Mora tree at
http://www.myheritage.es/site-59701631/de-la-mora You might see if someone
there has info.
Saludos.
Armando
On Fri, Jun 22, 2012 at 1:02 PM, wrote:
> This is for the person who posted the Organization info. For some reason
> I can not find your topic on here.
>
> I am looking for Santiago de la Mora who was married to Catalina Ximenes.
> Is this the same one you were talking about? I could use some help with
> this line.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Lisa
Hi Lisa,
I found two wives for Santiago de la Mora, Rosalia Berdin and Gertrudis Peres. I don't know how to navigate this site well but I will try to upload the tree for you to see. This is where citing sources help. I formed this tree through baptism and matrimonial information and since this is the part my relatives do not dispute, it's put on the back burner as far as sourcing. Please learn from my mistakes. It's interesting that my tias believed the family came from Spain just a few generations up from my grandparents and I just keep going farther and farther and finding baptism records (stating a local ranch and age of a few days old for birth)from Mexico. If you descend from the de la Moras from this area we are probably related somehow. I found 2 distant cousins on this site.
Sherri Mora
I have a descendant report for Joseph de la Mora Hurtado Mendoza in the member files (under "d"). Hopefully this includes someone from your line and will be helpful to you or others. I was not able to easily upload a gedcom of just a postion of my tree which is why I did the report. I will still try. In trying to accomplish this, I came across another of Santiago's wives-Ma. Trinidad Cornejo married on 27 Sep 1790 in Encarnacion de Diaz. I knew he had more it just took some finding.
Sherri Mora
Hi Sherri and Lisa,
I believe Rosalía Berdín belongs to the Verdín y Molina family and Gertrudis might end up belonging to Pérez Franco de Paredes, please keep me posted on these.
Saludos,
Daniel Méndez de Torres Camino
Río de Janeiro, Brasil
Adrián Márquez Padilla
Existe en family search un Juan de Santiago de la Mora de 1761, hijo de Fernando de la Mora y Juana Teresa Blancarte
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/N8JK-85M
Si pones de la Mora en el apellido y jalisco en Recidence place, te apareceran muchos nombres, es cuestion de buscar con calma en la lista.
Espero esto te sirva de ayuda en tu busqueda
Saludos
Thank you Adrian for taking the time to help, but the Santiago I am looking for was married in the early 1700's I believe, and so far I have found 3 children for him. Antonio was married in 1748, Alexandro, and Patricio who was born in 1731.
Again, Thank you,
Lisa
Diego Alonso del Pedroso (alternately, Diego Alonso Ramires del Pedroso) and Phelipa Hernandes de Rueda had (at least) three known children in Jalos (la Estancia de Coca): Juan Cayetano, Dionisio (ba
Dr. Javier Sanchiz Ruiz does at the following page
http://gw5.geneanet.org/sanchiz?lang=es&p=diego+alonso&n=ramirez+de+her…
If that link doesn't work this shortened one should
Saludos,
Armando
On Sun, Jul 1, 2012 at 3:23 PM, wrote:
> Diego Alonso del Pedroso (alternately, Diego Alonso Ramires del Pedroso)
> and Phelipa Hernandes de Rueda had (at least) three known children in Jalos
> (la Estancia de Coca): Juan Cayetano, Dionisio (bap. 1701), and Diego
> Alonso (bap. 1705). The latter two baptisms are documented.
>
> Does anyone have any documentary evidence of the lineage of this couple?
> I am stuck at the moment.
>
> Saludos,
> Lawrence Bouett
¡Míl grácias, Armando!
Saludos,
Lawrence
Hey everybody,
Hi Mggonzal,
Take a look at this film:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18735-4355-51?cc=1874591&wc=…
(Family Search films: Jalisco: Catholic Church Records: Chimaltitan:
Bautismos 1896-1903: image 692)
Last record on the bottom right states:
Margin: Maria Refugio nacio en este lugar el 1 del c/m 8.a.m.
Body: En la Yglecia Parroquial de Chimaltitan a seis de noviembre de mil
novecientos dos
El Prbro Luis Sanches ministro de esta parroquia con mi
lisencia bautiso solemnenente
continues on next page: poniendo santo Oleo y Sagrado Crisma a una nina
que nacio en este mismo lugar el primero del corriente a las ocho de la mana
a quien puso por nombre Ma Refugio hija legitima de Benito Guzman y Agapita
Quintero; abuelos paternos: Gerardo Guzman y Ma Refugio Lopez: abuelos
maternos: Casimiro Quintero y Ysabel Ayala: padrinos TEodoro Yanez e Ynes
Guzman; aquenes adivtio su abligacion y parentesco espuritual
Paraa constancia firmo conmigo
Just showed it to my grandfather and he said the name Maria De Refugio was his great grandmother. So it looks like a match!
Thanks a bunch for that information, it helped a great deal.
I had no idea they were from Chimaltitan but you have broadened my area of research.
DNA Testing