TEST SITE - DO NOT USE - Development only

Hello George:

Lots of these lines were taken from the work Jaime Holcomb published. So far he looked
like he knew what he was talking about. But then again I have not seen "proof". I know
I have Francisco as son of Alonso Macias and Maria de Retamosa. Jacinta's line I have
researched and can say to a baptismal record of one of her nieces she appears as madrina
Jacinta de Ortega "su hermana" referring to Alonso Perez de Ortega el mozo. They
are children of Alonso PErez de Ortega el viejo and Maria Nunez Vela y Munoz de Xerez
she appears to use both names. Together produced at least 4 kids that I have found.
Jacinta de Ortega, Alonso Perez de Ortega, Juana de Ortega and N. de Ortega (this
last one the name is not known but she was a female according to a dispensa).

Jacinta de Ortega and Francisco MAcias Valadez started the Macias de Ortega family.
They're descendants used this compound name for around three generations then it
was shorten to Macias while others mainted the Macias

El Padrón de la Feligresía es una lista de todos los habitantes que pagan el diezmo del territorio que comprende una Parroquia, recuerde que la Parroquia está conformada por vicarías y capillas y muchos pueblos pequeños, es una juristicción eclesiástica, una feligresía es el territorio habitado por los "fieles" de determinado lugar. En muchas ocasiones el Padrón hace mención del número de infantes o niños. También era útil para saber el número de tributarios si es que en ese lugar había indios.

Rodolfo Sinaí Gómez

> Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2011 09:29:12 -0500
> From: ruiz.raquel061@gmail.com
> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] "padron de la Feligresia"
>
> I understand that the role of the "padron de la Feligresia" was as a census
> taker for the parish, but I'm wondering if there is a better translation for
> this title and if anyone can shed more light on the position. I note it
> many times as a source in *Genealogia de Nochistlan Antiguo...*

Henric,

I don't know if this is your name but since there's no signature I'll use your
e-mail name.

My husband likes to say that his father was 40 years old for about 15 years. For
most of his children's births, it would list him as being the same age.
Sometimes people just guessed at their age. It was believed that he was born
around 1901 but we've never found a birth certificate. He was the oldest of 3
siblings and christening records are missing for half of the year of 1901.

Keep searching to see if you can find his birth record. I know this doesn't help
you on the contrary it leaves you with more questions.

Alicia,
San Jose, Calif

________________________________
From: "henricvs@gmail.com"
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Fri, February 25, 2011 10:34:26 AM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Different Dates on Different Documents

My Grandfather Enrique Chavez, died 25 Feb 1960. I know this because I have a
photograph of his tombstone. On this same tombstone

have you looked for his baptism record???

On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 12:34 PM, wrote:

> My Grandfather Enrique Chavez, died 25 Feb 1960. I know this because I
> have a photograph of his tombstone. On this same tombstone, it shows that
> he was 92 years old when he died. Enrique was married twice, first to Julia
> Zarate and then to Genoveve Romero. I have the 1904 marriage documentation
> from the church. Here is where things get strange. In this document, he is
> listed as a widower and his first wife is listed, Julia Zarate. His age is
> given as 45! His new wife Genoveva Romero, was 17 years old. I also have a
> copy of the Mexican 1930 Census, where his little family is documented
> correctly. His age however, in this document is listed as 60! The bottom
> line, I have three dates thusly;
>
> 25 Feb 1960 - 92 years old at death = 1868
> 1 Feb 1904 - 45 years old at wedding = 1859
> 15 May 1930 - 60 years old at Census = 1870
>
> Any ideas?

espero que estes bien Jaime, efectivamente en el acta matrimonial que citas se lee Beatris Hortiz, de este matrimonio yo tengo registrados 8 hijos con los siguientes apellidos:

1- Micaela Aiala Ortis 15 Nov 1636 imagen 50
2- Beatris Ayala Ortis 14 Junio 1639 imagen 81
3- Andres Aiala Rengel 27 Mar 1641 imagen 100
4- Elvira Aiala Ortis 27 Dec 1644 imagen 118
5- Angela Aiala Cortes 28 Apr 1647 imagen 136
6- Jorge Aiala Cortes 03 May 1649 imagen 165
7- Lorenso Aiala Peguero 03 Sep 1651 imagen 179
8- Ana Ayala Cortes 18 Aug 1653 imagen 189

adicional a esto en el acta de defuncion de Andres de Ayala(imagen 113) se cita a Beatris como Beatris Ranjel y posteriormente como Betris Ranjel Cortes, en la misma imagen esta el acta de defuncion de Beatris y al margen se cita como Beatris Cortes Ranjel y en el cuerpo del acta se le cita igual.

En el acta de defuncion de Andres de Ayala el mozo ( 16 de

Estimado Jaime:

Me da interés a cuanto lo del Cortés. Pienso que don Guillermo Tovar de Teresa le podía explicar más, ya que el ha trabajado diligentamente en esta línea de los Peguero y su filación.

Daniel Méndez Camino

Estimado Daniel,

Considerando lo activo y acucioso que eres como investigador, sería formidable que colaboremos en aclarar ciertas líneas de la genealogía Fregoso y Farfán. Yo no puedo hacer todo y por eso me permito convocarte a ti y a los interesados en este tema, como lo son Blanca Guerrero, José Luis Ramírez y penaperezplazola (que así lo identifico por no saber su nombre), quienes han demostrado ser muy serios y sensatos estudiosos de la genealogía, que tratemos de dilucidar, en suma: averiguar si el apellido De la Cueva de Gerónima viene por lo Farfán; en Michoacán, a fines del siglo XVI encontramos ambos apellidos, De la Cueva, por un prominente miembro del Cabildo Eclesiástico Michoacano y lo Farfán con la ilustre familia Farfán de los Godos, vinculada a conquistadores y antecedentes hispánicos de calidad.

Ahí les dejo ese encargo y esta posible colaboración.

Reciban un cordial saludo

Guillermo

-----Mensaje original-----
De: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org

Thanks Armando for the information about Maria de la O. Her birth date or bapt. date might be Dec 18 but I haven't found those records. Thanks again the info. was interesting.

Petronila de Moctezuma is not mentioned in this book. She is also not in the genealogical charts that I have obtained from PARES.

The only document (or more properly an extract of a document) that I have seen that actually names her and Martin Navarro is a request for a dispensation of a marriage involving a great-granddaughter of theirs. This document does not give Petronila's ancestry.

George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA

Con respecto a dupliciada de actas , en las de bautizmo cambia porque  algunas ocasiones cuando el nino recien nacido estaba en peligro de morir

los sacerdotes catolicos permitian que cualquier persona , menos los papas efectuaran el bautizmo por los ninos en peligro de muerte y que tambien se escribiera el nombre de los padrinos, despues, si el nino no moria  llevaban todos los datos a la parroquia o ante el sacerdote y el volvia a efectuar el bautizmo y por eso cambiaban a los padrinos porque los otros solo eran '' suplentes '' por  el momento de gravedad que se estaba pasando.

y en cuanto a los matrimonios , unos eran presentaciones matrimoniales  o informacion matrimonial y la otra el matrimonio.

Bueno muchos saludos.

Martha Gomez
----- Original Message -----
From: "alondra preciado" 4darling@sbcglobal.net>
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Friday, February 18, 2011 7:46:55 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] DUPLICIDAD DE ACTAS ... ESPECIALMENTE        MATRIMONIALES

Con respecto a dupliciada de actas , en las de bautizmo cambia porque  algunas ocasiones cuando el nino recien nacido estaba en peligro de morir

los sacerdotes catolicos permitian que cualquier persona , menos los papas efectuaran el bautizmo por los ninos en peligro de muerte y que tambien se escribiera el nombre de los padrinos, despues, si el nino no moria  llevaban todos los datos a la parroquia o ante el sacerdote y el volvia a efectuar el bautizmo y por eso cambiaban a los padrinos porque los otros solo eran '' suplentes '' por  el momento de gravedad que se estaba pasando.

y en cuanto a los matrimonios , unos eran presentaciones matrimoniales  o informacion matrimonial y la otra el matrimonio.

Bueno muchos saludos.

Martha Gomez
----- Original Message -----
From: "alondra preciado" 4darling@sbcglobal.net>
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Friday, February 18, 2011 7:46:55 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] DUPLICIDAD DE ACTAS ... ESPECIALMENTE        MATRIMONIALES

Existe un Acta matrimonial de Luis de los Reyes con Juana Tiscareño de Molina (Aka, Juana de Vargas), del 27 de Diciembre de 1636. Sin embargo, existe un segundo registro que aporta información mucho más valiosa acerca del contexto social de Juana de Vargas. En nuevo registro se hizo el 7 de Febrero de 1637 y precisa que sus padrinos de velación (que generalmente eran familares muy cercanos), fueron Juan Domingo de Vargas-Machuca y Catalina de Ayala.

El documento está disponible en:

https://www.familysearch.org/s/image/show#uri=http%3A//pilot.familysear…

Paul Gomez wrote:

>Hello, Daniel,
>
>Do you have a copy of Ysidro's Baptismal? If he was baptized in
>Aguascalientes, and I have searched the digitized records on Family Search,
>then I have passed over the record.
>
>Thanks.
>
>Paul Gomez
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
>[mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of Daniel
>Méndez Camino
>Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2011 8:31 AM
>To: Nuestros Ranchos
>Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ysidro Alonzo
>
>
>Paul:
>
>My records show otherwise. Isidro Alonso de los Hinojos married Ana Maria de
>Mata y Rebollar the
>16 May 1770 in Aguascalientes. I have a copy f that marriage in my records.
>He was baptized 25 June 1729, like you said his parents were Diego Alonso de
>los Hinojos and Juana Martinez de Sotomayor. These last two at least had 7
>kids in Aguascalientes ranging rom 1724-1736. Isidro also had a twin brother
>named Diego. This is where this line ends for me

Paul:

My records show otherwise. Isidro Alonso de los Hinojos married Ana Maria de Mata y Rebollar the
16 May 1770 in Aguascalientes. I have a copy f that marriage in my records. He was baptized 25 June 1729,
like you said his parents were Diego Alonso de los Hinojos and Juana Martinez de Sotomayor. These last two
at least had 7 kids in Aguascalientes ranging rom 1724-1736. Isidro also had a twin brother named Diego. This is
where this line ends for me. Although I do have hunches on the identity of their parents we need
to prove it first and verify it.

Daniel Méndez Camino

Bill,
What is the evidence to support Juana Vargas (Tiscareño) as natural child of Luis Tiscareño de Molina? Is Luis listed in the marriage record of Luis de los Reyes and Juana de Vargas? I would be very interested in this information. Regarding this family, I have also done a fair bit of research, and I know that some members like George and Mickey will be interested in the following information, in particular as it relates to the relationship to the Medina family. Daniel may be intersted in some of the Tiscarenos. Regarding the children of Luis and Juana, I only had 9, I was missing Luis. In here I am including 5 generations.

Jaime

1st Generation

1. Luis de Los Reyes (Luis1) was born About 1635 and died on Jan. 24, 1675 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México. He married Juana Tiscareño de Molina About 1654. Juana was born About 1638 and died on an unknown date.

Children of Luis de Los Reyes and Juana Tiscareño de Molina
1.1.i.Antonio de Los Reyes was born About 1665 and

Once you start colonial research (XVII-XVIII centuries) you will notice it's common to see these compound names
the subject itself can get complicated. Spaniards had fun with surnames, one reason could be two families
were important so they compounded their names so their descendants could keep both and not lose the maternal
name. Note also that until the Borbon Reforms there was no rule on what name to take, if a male was named
after his maternal grandfather who could take his maternal last name and ignore his father's name all his life.
My paternal line is MENDEZ DE TORRES father to son and so on since Diego Mendez de Torres in 17th century in
Michoacan. My maternal line is CAMINO TRASGALLO, again father to son and eventually to daughter (my mother).
This practice became less important after the independence of Mexico occurred where it was an old way of thinking.
Many people shortened their names so let's say GIL DE HOYOS, one son chose to keep GIL the other son became
DE HOYOS. At

Pedro Macías Valadez y Josefa Gutiérrez también fueron padres de Sebastiana Gutiérrez, quien el 17 de mayo de 1669 presentó información matrimonial junto con su futuro esposo Miguel Martín de Sotomayor en Sierra de Pinos, para poder casar. El es hijo de Andrés Martín Camacho y María de Islas.

L.C.P. Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.
Tepatitlán de Morelos, Jalisco, México.
Tel.: 3781095311
www.facebook.com/jorgeluis.ramirezgomez

Estimado Jaime:

Desciendo de esta pareja vía mi línea materna, Pedro Macías Valadez hijo o el mozo casó Francica Ruiz de Quiroga (como se conocía) el 5 de junio de 1678 en la parroquia de la Asunción de Aguascalientes hijos de Pedro Macías Valadez, padre y Josefa Gutiérrez; Bartolomé de Espitia y Juana González, Espinoza, de la Cerda Elizalde (he visto todos estos apellidos vínculado con esta dama, por lo tanto también son mis antepasados). Francisca Ruiz de Quiroga II, la nieta, falleció el 23 de diciembre de 1681. Bartolomé era hijo de Francisco de Espitia y Francisca Ruiz de Quiroga I, la mayor o la abuela, tuvieron 4 hijos que he documentado.

Ententaré buscar un testamento u otro registro que nos podía ayudar documentar la ascendencia de Pedro Macías Valadez o Josefa Gutiérrez.

Desciendes de esta pareja?

Daniel Méndez Camino

Maria:

I had a very similar experience trying to view the unfilmed records in Colotlan, Jalisco. The priest simply refused to let us see them even though we had previously gotten permission from another one of the priests.

Can I ask why you went down to the parish for these records instead of ordering the film? It seems that Cocula is pretty well filmed. It is much less of a hassle.

Matrimonios 1668-1749 FHL INTL Film 232884
Matrimonios 1740-1758 FHL INTL Film 232885
Matrimonios 1755-1763 FHL INTL Film 232886

P.S. In the future, can you trim your messages and change the subject to something more specific than "General Digest..." when you reply to a digest email?

Okay this really sounds good! Ill be going up soon, Im in San Jose!
Daniel

> From: angelina@markleweb.com
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2010 19:53:09 -0700
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Genealogical records from Nueva Galicia (Mexico), 1537-1777.
>
> Hello,
>
> Has anyone seen this book? I was wondering if it was worth taking a drive up to Berkley - it appears to be the only library that has it. Sounds interesting but I've been burned so many times with books that I wanted to see if I could get some input first.
> Genealogical records from Nueva Galicia (Mexico), 1537-1777.
>
> Card catalogue description: Collection of genealogical documents (originals and certified copies) concerning interrelated families of Nueva Galicia-notably the Flores, de la Torre, Alvarado,Contreras, Angulo, Figueroa, Padilla, Bañuelos, and Oñate families. Composed principally of files on genealogical inquiries conducted by the Audiencia of Guadalajara or lesser local

Hello Angelina,

I never heard of such a book, but it seems to me that a trip to Berkley to
look at this collection would be well worth it, especially if they let you
photocopy and/or photograph some of them. Without a doubt, these documents
would be of interest to most of us engaged in genealogical research of the
early settlers of Nueva Galicia. I, for one, would be very interested to
know what you find out. Please keep us posted. Are you related to any of
these families?

Regards,
BILL FIGUEROA

if you can look a these documents and copy them. ----- Original
Message -----
From: "Angelina Markle"
To:
Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2010 9:53 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Genealogical records from Nueva Galicia
(Mexico),1537-1777.

Hello,

Has anyone seen this book? I was wondering if it was worth taking a drive up
to Berkley - it appears to be the only library that has it. Sounds
interesting but I've been burned so many times with books that I wanted to
see if I could

First of all, I also agree that politics do not belong on this forum.

But I also do not agree with members publishing private emails.

From what I've read, it seems that the opinion was sent to a private email and the recipient of the opinion decided to make it public and also posted that person's name. Private emails should stay private in humbled opinion.

If that person had an issue with the opinion, he should have ignored it or should have continued communicating via private messages.

Just my 2 cents.

Sergio Gutierrez

Aquí en Tepatitlán de Morelos, Jalisco tampoco había esa distinción para separar en un libro los bautismos de españoles, y en otro el de indígenas; aquí los libros incluyen a todas las castas en un solo libro.

Solo recuerdo que una vez fui a Acatic a revisar unas actas y me dijo la encargada de la notaría parroquial, que ahí llevaban dos tipos de libros de bautismo, uno para los hijos legítimos, y otro para los hijos naturales.Saludos.Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.
_________________________________________________________________
P.D. Live Search tiene una sorpresa buenísima, chécala aquí.
http://www.ganabuscando.com/Default.aspx