Dr.mt

Testamentos, Escrituras, etc. can be viewed online

Published by MADERA_32 –
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In the familysearch.org website now you can view such things as testamentos, escrituras online. You click on the link such as testamentos, the scroll down to see the list and dates.

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The "padrones" of Jalisco and some history/genealogy books are also available for online viewing.

Have you been able to locate a will of one of your ancestors in those films? I've browsed a few of those films, but I'm not sure where to start.

Saucedo's from Teocaltiche and Calvillo

Published by Rose_Hardy –
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Daniel

My cousin and research partner, Dave has Saucedo's from Teocaltiche:

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Hello Rose,
I have Saucedo's from Calvillo (listed below). Epigmenia Saucedo married
Isaac Esparza and had Andrea Esparza. Andrea married into a Limon family in
Teocaltiche. Later Epigmenia Saucedo married into the same Limon family.

I lost the trail of the Saucedo's after the father, Matias Saucedo, was
listed in the marriage record of his son Hermenejildo Saucedo in 1859.

I'd love any supporting information on the Saucedo's of Teocaltiche and
Calvillo.

-Esperanza

Ysac or Isaac Esparza
m. Feb 3, 1881 to Epigmenia Saucdeo, San Jose, Calvillo, Aguascalientes

Epigmenia Saucedo
b. Mar 24, 1859
m. Feb 3, 1881 to Ysac Esparza, San Jose, Calvillo, Aguascalientes
d. Jun 30, 1930 (second husband, Valente Limon)

Father: Hermenejildo Saucedo
Mother: Refugio Aguallo

Hermenejildo Saucedo
b. ~1833
m. Jun 1, 1859 to Refugio Agaullo, La Santisima Trinidad, Villa Hidalgo,
Jalisco

Father: Matias Saucedo
Mother: Maria Dias

Refugio Agaullo
b. ~1843, Rancho de Collotes

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Esparanza

Here is the information on your Hermengildo Saucedo and some notes that I have on a Matias Saucedo.

I did an exact name search in the IGI at familysearch.org. It's very easy type in last names only, i.e. "Saucedo Dias" and click the box on the bottom for exact name. In doing so are the following results. Once the person is located (and even not) your mainly looking for the location and time period. Click the batch number. I just typed in Matias for the fathers first name only. Every Matias in Villa Hidalgo popped up for batch # C611162. Once you've got a batch number play with it....alter the number to C611163 for later years....or go back C611161...if there are no results change the C to a K or J...if no results then there is nothing on the IGI.

I came across this method of research years ago and teach people all the time how to look for ancestors they think they are stuck on.

Same hold true with the LDS Pilot site, except it is more user friendly and all sorts of

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Esparanza

Also don't forget to place Jose or Maria in front of the name of your ancestors.....Juan and Juana are also other names as well. I found where two of your lines were married....

JOSE DOLORES AGUALLO Pedigree
Male Family
Spouse: MARIA MANUELA NAXARA Family
Marriage: 17 JAN 1798 Nuestra Senora De Los Dolores, Teocaltiche, Jalisco, Mexico
Batch No.: Dates: Source Call No.: Type: Printout Call No.: Type:
M607071 1783 - 1805 0639758

JOSE RAFAEL DE VLLOA Pedigree
Male Family
Spouse: MARIA CATARINA DE MORA Family
Marriage: 09 MAY 1810 Nochistlan, Zacatecas, Mexico
Batch No.: Dates: Source Call No.: Type: Printout Call No.: Type:
M606268 1807 - 1824 0226729 Film NONE

Rose

Comentario

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939L-QB81-3?mode=g&i=100&cc=187…

Yo tengo este registro de mi familia que los padrinos son JOSE ANTONIO SAUCEDO Y FRANCISCO SAUCEDO , segun todos ellos de ARROYO SECO , Teocaltiche, pero no encuentro donde es ahora, tambien despues de estos registros aparecen en Calvillo, Aguascalientes, espero que te sirva la información.

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A mi me pasa algo parecido con mi familia Contreras aparecen en Calvillo y antes estaban en Teocaltiche, pero me di cuenta que los registros católicos de calvillo comienzan en 1772, antes de eso la gente iba a Tabasco Zacatecas a realizar sacramentos , y antes de eso estoy investigando pero todo parece indicar que teocaltiche o Aguascalientes Capital . Espero darme a entender no hablo ingles, lo leo un poco y use el traductor.

To me something similar happens with my family Contreras appear in Calvillo and before they were in Teocaltiche, but I realized that the catholic records of calvillo begin in 1772, before that the people went to Tabasco Zacatecas to realize sacraments, and before that I am researching but everything seems to indicate that teocaltiche or Aguascalientes Capital. I hope to make myself understood I do not speak English, I read it a bit and use the translator.

El Salto de Los Trexos and the surname "Si"

Published by lunalatina1955 –
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I have ancestors with the last name "Si" also attached to the last name of Trexo (Trejo} from El Salto de Los Trexos, Tlaltenango Sanchez Roman.

Two questions:

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I have records from the district of Jerez, Zac that say Si and then in other records for the same person it says Sid and in later years it changes to Cid.
Linda Castanon-Long

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Hola Luna:

Creo que hay que considerar otras dos posibilidades antes de irse por los ancestros chinos, a menos que los descendientes tengan rasgos orientales.

1. Es posible que "Si" haya sido una abreviación del apellido Sifuentes, ahora Cifuentes como se aprecia en el siguiente registro.

"México bautismos, 1560-1950," database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NRG1-1MG : 12 December 2014), Maria Jpha. Jacinta Si Carrion, 26 Aug 1762; citing SAN JUAN BAUTISTA,PANUCO,ZACATECAS,MEXICO, reference ; FHL microfilm 1,093,323.

2. Que sea un apellido indígena de esa región.

Tu familia proviene de Jerez de García Salinas, Zacatecas en donde nació Juana María Si Fernández y se bautizó en 1760, como hija de Bitorino Si y Juana Fernández.

México bautismos, 1560-1950," database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N2MY-1S3 : 12 December 2014), Juana Maria Si Fernandes, 03 Sep 1762; citing JEREZ,JEREZ DE GARCIA SALINAS,ZACATECAS,MEXICO, reference ; FHL

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Hola Marcelina,

Estoy de acuerdo contigo que "Si " puede see una abrevaciòn de Sifuentes (Cifuentes). Yo he encontrado muchas abrevaciònes en España Otero ejemplo fue Sanz que era una abrevaciòn para Sanchez. Hay muchas abrevaciònes que hay que aprender.

Gracias,
Ricardo

Descent of Edward III to my wife's maternal grandmother, Margarita Rocha Gutierrez and to Queen Elizabeth II

Published by Anónimo (no verificado) –
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The descent from Cerdic, 1st King of Wessex to King Edward III to Margarita Gutierrez Rocha

1. Cerdic, 1st King of Wessex
2. Creoda
3. Cynric, King of Wessex

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Published by R.A.Ricci (no verificado) – Jue, 2017-05-18 03:00 | Enlace permanente

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I followed this lineage as it was in many secondary sources. However, now that I have discovered a different ancestry for the Ruy Diaz de Mendoza that is the husband of Leonor Salazar, I would like to dig deeper into the ancestors of Maria Mendoza, wife of Luis Marin. I will soon post an ancestry of the Ruy Diaz de Mendoza married to Leonor.

36. Rudy Diaz de Mendoza
+ Catalina Arellano del Rio

(Parents ?)

37. Maria Mendoza
+ Luis Marin (b1491)

Does anyone have any evidence for these claims other than secondary sources?

Thanks,

Rick A. Ricci

Published by R.A.Ricci (no verificado) – Dom, 2016-09-04 20:13 | Enlace permanente

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The problem is that in the family there are multiple Juan Martinez de Leyvas and a couple of Sancho Martinez de Leyvas that genealogists, myself included, have confused. Add the multiple marriages and there is even more confusion.

I had previously written:

"I have Juana Garcia de Leyva as daughter to Sancho Martinez de Leyva And Elizabeth of Suffolk but I have also seen some genealogists place her as Sancho and Elizabeth's granddaughter and daughter of Juan Martinez de Leyva and Maria Diaz de Ceballos."

I have found more material indicating that Juana Garcia de Leyva is the grandaughter of Sancho Martinez de Leyva and Lady Elizabeth of Suffolk instead of the daughter so this would mean an additional generation. I need to do more research to clarify if she is the daughter or granddaughter. One secondary source even names her as a great grandaughter.

Some genealogists have even stated that Sancho "brazo de hierro"and Leyva are siblings but the evidence points to descendancy.

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Published by R.A.Ricci (no verificado) – Dom, 2016-05-29 23:13 | Enlace permanente

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Descent from Pedro Zuniga Ist Conde de Ledesma to Lady Diana Spencer and Margarita Rocha Gutierrez

32. Pedro López de Zúñiga y García de Leyva, I Conde de Ledesma, Conde de Plasencia, Justicia Mayor del Rey and Alguacil mayor del Rey + Isabel de Guzmán y Ayala, III Señora de Gibraleón

33. Alvaro Peres de Zuniga y Leyva (1410?-1488) + Eleonore Pimentel (second wife of Alvaro)

34. Isabella Zuniga y Pimentel (1470-1520) + Fadrique Alvarez Toledo

35. Pedro Alvarez Toledo (1485-?) + Maria Osorio-Pimentel

36. Eleonora Alvarez Toledo (1522-1562) + Cosimo I de Medici

37. Francesco I d'Medici of Italy (1541-1581) + Joanna Hapsburg, Archduchess of Austria(1547-1578)

38. Maria de Medici (1573-1642) + Henry IV Bourbon of France

39. Henriette Marie de Bourbon (1609-1699) + Charles I of England, (1600-1649)

40. Charles II of England, (1630-1685) + Louise de Kérouaille, Duchess of Portsmouth (1649-1734)

41. Charles Lennox, 1st Duke of Richmond (1672-1723) + Anne Brudenell (1671

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Fernandez is wrong about the name of the wife of Rodrigo de Caravajal because in 1568 Francisco de Figueroa himself stated his daughter Francisca married Rodrigo de Caravajal

Source

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/55292850/Amaya%2C%20T.%20J%20(1983)…

Comentario

Dear Alex,

Please look at the thread:

Colio and Covarrubias connection to Suarez de Ibarra and Sanchez de Porras

And the thread on Toribio Hernandez Arellano

Francisco and Diego are not first cousins. With all the information that we do have on the family, It is 99,99999999999999999999999999999... % improbable for them to be first cousins. They are uncle and nephew.

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.
your comment made me smile. I remember when I told my Dad I was doing research on the family in Zacatecas he asked me why since they were all dead anyway! I had to laugh he had no idea how our Caldera family especially had to do with the history of Nueva Galicia.
I believe every generation or two the ancestors ask to be remembered. I had 2 cousins who started this work on the family then I retired and had time to take it further. Future generations will be able to say they have a history and foundation and story that I carry forward with pride and responsibility. I also put my files on Rootsweb.com so others can find their lines and am amazed how many relatives I've found and enjoy. My trunk in Zacatecas is my Father, Chet Castanon and if you go to pedigree in text form you can see my lines and they amaze me how I can have slave owners and slaves. Espanol, Mulato and Indio. I am all that Mexico has to offer.
Your family can certainly be proud of what you have done for your line to

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Dear Linda,

I made two discoveries today. One of them was that my ancestors brother raped his cousin, making her bleed and then, forcing/convincing her to marry him. They had two children, one of them the ancestor to many kings.

The other discovery is a very big personal discovery. This discovery brings an uplifting story that has a personal connection to my family. This discovery connects a saint that started the order that administers schools that my wife, daughter, and I have attended. I found out that this saint lived with his aunt, my ancestor and that he stated that this aunt had a big influence on his life. It was the discovery of this story that finally changed the mind of my family member that had said "why are you wasting your time, you should be doing something constructive and not wasting time."

Thanks again for your comments,
Rick Ricci

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Dear Rick
I thank you very much for all your time, hard work, patience, dedication and many more things you gather to reconstruct brick by brick, piece by piece the most exciting puzzle from which we all came yo life!
I think that maybe some of our relatives are reluctant to look into the past due to fears of finding out that we descend of "little people ", of "unperfect individuals", what they don't imagine is that for ALL OF US to be alive, our ancestors had to perform an incredible number of courageous or clever or audacious actions!
People like you help us realize that in the end we all are descendants of courageous pioneers; audacious conquerors; clever Merchants...
In the end we see that none of the living persons on this planet come from "little people " because our genes to be here, alive, still thriving, have had to solve and survive incredible and seemingly unsurmontable situations!
And the great news is... that... here we are, and thankfully some of us Will not let

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Dear Carlos,

Thank you for your comments. Much of of my research has moved along as someone brings up questions and makes me dig even deeper to find out more of our "ancestral history". I want to thank you all your help on the Pantoja ancestry. After all the work that we did on the Pantoja family, I was wondering if you saw my Ochoa Garibay findings. Have you seen that post?

Diego Otxoa Garibai (aka Diego Ochoa-Garibay) married to Juana Nunez de Sotomayor:

http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/23400

Thanks again,
Rick A. Ricci

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Rick

On page 27 of "Fundadores de Nueva Galicia, Guadalajara, Tomo I" by Guillermo Garmendia Leal he states:

Rodrigo de CARVAJAL, nacido en Agualulco, muere el 20 Oct 1631

The list of sources for this section are:
FAMILIAS DE GUADALAJARA, JALISCO
BAUTISMOS DE 1599 A 1617, ROLLO# 0038309 y otras hasta 1631 de la Revista de la
Soc. De Historia y Genealogia de Jalisco, No. 5 de Ene 1978.
===========================================
Familias que aparecen en los PROTOCOLOS de :
RODRIGO HERNANDEZ CORDERO, rollo 0266637 (1585 - 1591),
JUAN SEDANO, rollo 0277644 (1627-1630),
FRANCISCO DE ORENDAIN, rollo 0277638 (1629)
DIEGO P. DE RIBERA, rollo 0243181 (1637-1643)
HERNANDO ENRIQUEZ DEL CASTILLO, rollo 0243176 (1641-1648)

Have you located this record? Seems like it may fit in the timeline for the Rodrigo Caravajal who married Melchora de los Reyes

Alex

Comentario

Dear. Alex

On your finding:
"Rodrigo de CARVAJAL, nacido en Agualulco, muere el 20 Oct 1631"

I have not located this record but will look for it. I agree with you that it may fit in the timeline for the Rodrigo Caravajal who married Melchora de los Reyes. Do you know where Agualulco is? Rodrigo and Melchora de los Reyes were residents of Ahuacatlan, Nayarit.
Mary Lou provides invaluable information on this family in the letters that she provided from Jaime Holcombe.
Every piece to the puzzle that we add is very welcome.

Thanks,

Rick A Ricci

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Rick

I just assumed Agualulco was the same as Ahuacatlan. I went through cited film. I went through all the deaths, and the births and marriages of 1631 and could't find the record!

I was also wondering if you had any additional sources connecting Rodrigo de Carbajal cc Melchora de los Reyes to his parents. Seems to me Jaime (Pctober 1992) had no source for the connection in his letters; however he did for the rest of Rodrigo's siblings and half-siblings.

Alex

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I don't know if there are any typos, as I am too taken by your results and the hard work and hours put into it. While I don't have any direct relationships to any of the people my cousins the Lomelin and Pedrozas do. Thank you for sharing.

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Dear, Simona,

Thank you for your comments. There are many typos in my post about King of England Edward III's descent to Margarita Rocha Gutierrez. A couple of the dates I put in are wrong.I also left out some information by mistake. The numbering of the descent from Danish royalty is off. I left out Juan Hurtado de Mendozas wife by mistake, I left out many dates that I have. Sometimes I put a date without saying what the date meant. I should have better explained how a huge number of people from Nueva Galicia and New Mexico (USA) descend from King Edward III, not just Margarita Rocha Gutierrez's family.

35. Juan Hurtado de Mendoza, 5th Sr. De Moron
+ Luisa Velasquez de Cuellar y Velasco

Many families from Nueva Galicia and New Mexico descend from this group of people:

36. Maria Mendoza
+ Luis Marin (b1491)

37. Mariana Mendoza m.1550
+ Cap.Juan Zaldivar (born 1520-1525)

38. Maria Zaldivar Mendoza m.abt.1554
+ Balthazar Temino de Banuelos

Balthazar Temino de

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ya me atore Contreras

Published by Mar_Contreras –
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Hola!! ¿Puedes subir el link de la imagen de la Fe de Bautismo para ver más detalles, por favor? Algo que me ha sido de utilidad es tener en cuenta los Padrinos de los hijos. Si comparten apellidos similares hay mucha seguridad que sean familia. Puedes buscarlos y empezar a armar el rompecabezas por otro lado.

Comentario

Hola!! ¿Puedes subir el link de la imagen de la Fe de Bautismo para ver más detalles, por favor? Algo que me ha sido de utilidad es tener en cuenta los Padrinos de los hijos. Si comparten apellidos similares hay mucha seguridad que sean familia. Puedes buscarlos y empezar a armar el rompecabezas por otro lado.

Comentario

Hola!! ¿Puedes subir el link de la imagen de la Fe de Bautismo para ver más detalles, por favor? Algo que me ha sido de utilidad es tener en cuenta los Padrinos de los hijos. Si comparten apellidos similares hay mucha seguridad que sean familia. Puedes buscarlos y empezar a armar el rompecabezas por otro lado.

De La Paz y Cortez

Published by Anónimo (no verificado) –
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Published by R.A.Ricci (no verificado) – Dom, 2017-05-14 16:36 | Enlace permanente

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does anyone have the ancestry of Nicolas Paz de Cortez? Can a connection be made to Hernan Cortez's aunt?

Thank you,
Rick A. Ricci

Published by R.A.Ricci (no verificado) – Dom, 2017-05-14 02:16 | Enlace permanente

Comentario

I was raising questions that had already been answered before.

Steven F. Hernandez Lopez provides a letter that Jaime Holcombe wrote shows the the connection of the De La Paz y Cortez sisters to the De la Paz benavides Cortez clan.

Here is the link :

http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/23064?page=1

The letter identifies the sister as grand daughters of Tomas Paz (Paez) and Francisca Torres (Lomelin) through their son Antonio de la Paz y Cortés y Lomelín and his wife, Antonia Arias de Ibarra.

There are multiple relationships between Tomas Paez (De la Paz y Cortez) and Francisca Torres y Lomelin, and between the sisters and their husbands thought the Hermosillo lines.

Tronco: Jerónimo de Benavides and Catalina Cortés

María Benavides------------------------ 1st-------------- Jerónima Benavides
md. Carlos Lomelín md. 1) Nicolás (Paez) de la Paz y Cortés

Domingo Lomelín---------------------- 2nd------------- Francisco (Paez) de la Paz y Cortés
md. Juana de Mendoza md. Francisca

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Hello Rick,

I just noticed your post on my Benavides thread, but I am answering on your newer thread. As you pointed out, Holcombe already solved the puzzle, so I do not have much more to add.

However, given my recent research and reconstruction of the early Benavides generations, the trunk for this tree would now be known to be Catalina Cortez (II) (wife of N.N., and daughter of Geronimo de Benavides and Catalina Cortez (I)). So the updated tree would look like this:

Parents of Tronco: Jeronimo de Benavides and Catalina Cortez (I)

Tronco: Catalina Cortez (II) de Benavides and N.N.

Maria Benavides---------------1st------- Jeronima Benavides
md. Carlos Lomelin----------------------md. Nicolas (Paez) de la Paz y Cortez

Domingo Lomelin---------------2nd------- Francisco (Paez) de la Paz y Cortez
md. Juana de Mendoza-----------------------md. Francisca Sanchez Carranza

[Joseph de Lomelin]-----------3rd-------- Thomas de Paez, the groom
[+Micaela de Hermosillo]

Francisca Torres

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Thank you David for correcting the line. Do you have more information on the De la Paz family? My wife has some De la Paz ancestry but I haven't gone this far on her line. Are you sure that Nicolas has Cortez in his surname, or does the Cortez come from his mother in law Catalina Cortez? If Nicolas does have Cortez then does this mean that it may be clue that Nicolas is somehow related to his mother in law, Catalina Cortez de Benavides?

Thanks again,
Rick A. Ricci

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Is there a primary source document including at least one parent of Francisco de la Paz? I have no names between Catalina Cortes (II) and Francisco de la Paz from a primary source.

Here is a dispensa including Gertrudis Hermosillo and her son Joseph Perez Franco. Unforunantly it add no new additional info

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-D2R6-9?i=345&wc=3JW5-166%3…

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the name I read on both records is D. Juan Perez Franco.

Having no working knowledge of this family but the connection to the Paz Cortes/Colunga that I was excited but overwhelmed with trying to find and enter this family into my tree. would you know how Juana de Torres Rivera y Paz Cortés abt 1595– married to Esteban Anso y Telles fits into the people you have posted or are they different.

Thanks, Simona

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I thought that it was either Juan or Pedro. I went through my research files and discoverered that I have the husband of Gertudis Hermosillo is Pedro Perez Franco according to death records. That explains the tercer con quarto relationship. I would still like to find the dispensation to get more information on the De La Paz Cortez family.

Thanks Simona,
Rick A. Ricci

Comentario

the following records all point to the same people you mentioned just that there are variations to their names

www.familysearch.org

Don Ygnacio Peres De Paredes Married twice Catharina first wife
1715–Deceased • KHY5-5GR​
Catharina De La Paz y Cortes
–1743 • LRJG-F7B​
Marriage: 5 June 1737
Jalostotitlán, Jalisco, Mexico

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-XYQT

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-XYV1

Comentario

The record does say juan. There is a Pedro, nephew to Juan that is married to women with the same name, Gertrudis de Hermosillo.

In my records, I already had the brothers listed as sons of Juan but had them using Perez de Paredes as the surname and did not have wives for them. I also already had their birthdates. All the pieces have fallen in place except we still need the letters of dispensation to show the ancestry of the De la Paz Cortez ancestors since they were related "tercer con Quarto grado." Since they both couples were married in the middle of the year, 5/June1737, it is most likely that the dispensation was also given in that same year, 1737. These two dispensations most likely will be a big puzzle piece that will connect the De la Paz family members to the Hermosillos and Benavides-Cortez families.

Antonia frias de Ybarra may be Arias de Ybarra. What do you think, Frias or Arias?

Thanks,

Rick A. Ricci

Bernal Marmolejo alias Bernal de Encalada

Published by sarod77 –
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Are these two Juan de Dios the same person?

Juan De Dios Bernal Marmolexo (there is a sanchez as well before bernal)

Vs.
Juan de Dios de Encalada

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Comentario

here are records to compare

Baptism record for Juan Bernardo Bernal Delgado

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NK2R-S62

Juan Bernardo Bernal de Encalada marriage to Salas Image of marriage
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-6PHQ-1JD

Also the son of Marmolejo and Delgado, Juan de Dios Bernal is Married to Gertrudis Carrion but there is a record that I believe is her as well attached but she is now Gertrudis Lopes de Nava (she was Padre no Conocido at marriage)

Husebio Delgado y Pascuala Gallegos de Cabrera

Published by sarod77 –
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Juan Delgado son of Eusebio Delgado and Pascuala cc Teodora de Ollavides (dif spellings)
He is from Pinos and she is from Asientos, Aguascalientes.

They have an IM in Pinos

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That's new! I have her as daughter of Juan Gallegos de Cabrera cc Petrona Marmolejo.

Saludos!
Manny Diez Hermosillo

"RESERVED” church ledger or register?

Published by allipeacock –
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We’ve run into a challenge I’ve never encountered before. Does anyone have experience finding records from a “RESERVED” church ledger?

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Comentario

it may be in the book for hijos naturales where the father and mother were not married.
I found my grandmother there..

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I have one ancestor where it said that but i dont remember who it was. But the information that they didnt mention on the record was actually mentioned a few pages away in the same book so I don't know if that was also the reserve book or if there was another book somewhere else.

Mariano OLIVARES & Mariaia Catarina de Avalos

Published by Anónimo (no verificado) –
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I need help. I am looking for the marriage dispensation of Mariano Olivares and Maria Catarina de Avalos.

While searching on the internet I found:

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Comentario

Hi Rick,

It's on img404, roll 168071, the date is 18 Jan 1787:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-66SN-5C?i=403&wc=12005689&…

The couple were at 4/3 consanguinity. What's interesting is they have the tronco as Juan de Ornelas cc Polonia de los Angeles, though I have Juan de Ornelas married to Sebastiana Ortiz.

Saludos,
Manny Diez Hermosillo

Comentario

Hi Manny,

Your assistance is greatly appreciated. This marriage dispensation is a big puzzle piece as it connects a future NFL football hall of fame Mexican -American to Moctezuma II through my research on the Ruiz de Esparza family. This adds an important chapter to my book on the Ruiz de Esparza. I am very happy to find this information before finishing the book on the Ruiz de Esparza as it adds much to it.

Because of this puzzle piece, I now feel comfortable writing this NFL football great who hasn't received the credit that he deserves as he stands shoulder to shoulder with Mike Ditka in the record books.

I would appreciate whatever puzzle pieces you can add as to the ancestry of Alonso Olivares, Juan de Ornelas, Polonia de Los Angeles, and Diego Flores.

Thanks again,
Rick A. Ricci

Comentario

Hi Manny,

The information that you have on Matias Ornelas' mother is based on the baptismal record at this link: https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-XY9B-RD?mode=g&i=212&cc=18…

From this information either we are talking of different Matias de Ornelas, both having a father named Juan Ornelas, or we have a case where juan de Hornelas remarried and his second wife is the one that is named in the marriage dispensation instead of the biological mother. But the problem with that scenario is that Sebastiana is listed as a widow of Juan Ornelas so she could not have pre deceased him. If they are different wives to the same Juan then Polonia de Los Angeles would have to be the first wife.The third scenario is that Sebastiana is the same person as Polonia de Los Angeles.

In many other dispensations, the spouses aren't listed, so I am assuming that this added information is given because of multiple marriages. More puzzle pieces are needed to clarify the differing information

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Interpreting DOB from Baptism Record: "de xxxxxx dias de nacido"

Published by eduardo1966 –
Foros
Genealogy Research

Is there a more likely interpretation of the date of birth when a baptism record describes an infant's as as "de xxxxx dias de nacido"? xxxxx is a number, siete, quatro, un, etc.

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Published by victorianonavarro (no verificado) – Mar, 2017-05-09 22:44 | Enlace permanente

Comentario

Some priests used inclusive date counting, some exclusive date counting. In the inclusive one you include all the days, so if the child was 3 days old and baptized on Sunday, he was born on Friday (Friday, Saturday and Sunday makes 3 days). If they used exclusive date counting, then you exclude one day, and the child from the previous example would have been born on Thursday. I agree checkng for saints days may give you clues regarding which system they used on that parish at that time.
VN

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When I find baptisms that mention, for example, baptized on March 25 and "de 3 dias de nacido, I substract the number of days to the day of baptism, and I write the day of birth as born "circa March 22". I have seen it several times that this usage is not consistent and sometimes, they include the day of the baptism as part of that number, but other times, they do not.

Sometimes there may be clues, for example, the "santoral catolico" mentions what saints are celebrated on each day, and for example if the child is called Guadalupe and I have to pick between December 11 and December 12, I will be inclined to go with the day of the Virgin of Guadalupe. But in many instances there are no clues, so I always use the word "circa" if there is no specific date mentioned.

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If a baby is born today may 8th and it says de cinco días nacido then the baby was born may 3rd.

Danny C. Alonso

Published by R.A.Ricci (no verificado) – Mié, 2017-05-10 00:16 | Enlace permanente

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Victoriano is correct. Some priests used inclusive date counting, some exclusive date counting in Baptismal records. So it easy to be off by a day or two.

When working with a census, the year maybe be off almost two years.

Rick A. Ricci

Domingo Garcia & Bonfacia Rocha ?

Published by chilerey54 –
Foros
Genealogy Research

Hola Members, I have a Domingo Garcia married to Bonifacia Rocha - Parents origin ?

According to 2 children of these two individuals their(Maria Leonor Garcia) acta de Bautismos 1801-1809 de San Juan

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Published by R.A.Ricci (no verificado) – Dom, 2017-05-07 22:11 | Enlace permanente

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My wife descends from the Rocha family from Los Altos de Jalisco.

What adds to the difficulty in studying this Rocha Family is that the surname is sometimes written Madrid de la Rocha, Rocha de la Madrid, De La Madrid de la Rocha, De La Rocha De la Madrid, Madrid, or Rocha.

Jose Andres Madrid de la Rocha (aka Rocha de la Madrid) and Antonia Teresa Rangel are the parents of Jose Francisco Madrid de la Rocha

Jose Francisco Madrid de la Rocha and Maria Lucresia Vasquez are the parents of Jose Damacio De Guadalupe Madrid de La Rocha, born in1803. Jose Maria Rocha is most likely part of this family.

I hope this information will help your research,
Rick A. Ricci

anastacio sanchez and related families

Published by stephmartinez316 –
Foros
Genealogy Research

anastacio sanchez who is my 3rd great grandfather born about 1850 and married my maria luz jaramillo. all children have been accounted for so far in baptismals records on family search.

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Steph

Baptismal records very often name the grandparents. Have you looked at the actual records, and not just the indexes?

If the baptism records do not give the grandparents names, then check the civil birth records. These commonly name the grandparents as well. Many of the civil records are indexed at ancestry.com. If you do not have a subscription you can search at many public libraries, or at any Family History Center.

You may need to look at the records for all the children to find the info you need.

George

Comentario

ty george at this current time katherine brecht and i are looking for the records and we are making a breakthrough on anastacio sanchezs family. researching and doing lots of reading on the 5th great grandfather whoo hoo ! and yes i have looked at the childrens baptisms etc not alot of those children mentioned had his parents listed however on the mother of them it listed the grandparents which was a help .

Italians in Mexico (Lomelini) research Digest, Vol 6, Issue 16

Published by mimasep1959 –
Foros
Genealogy Research

Hello Alicia & Rose,
I like Maria and most likely others that have alteno ancestry
descend from Carlos Lomelini too, so please count me in too. The
prologue mentioned by Alicia lists several of our ancestors: Manuel

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Comentario

Irma,

I personally have not connected with the Lomellini's but my sister-in-law has. She has a GGGGGGgrand-father Josef-Maria Ximenes de Lomelin born 17 May 1750 in Nochistlan, son of Joseph Ximenes and Antonia de Lomelin of Nochistlan, I don't have a birth or marriage date for Joseph Ximenes and Antonia de Lomelin yet and I may not have them for some time, unless I just happen to come across them being that they are not in my direct family line.

Good luck in your search,
Alicia

----- Original Message ----
From: Irma GomezLucero
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Monday, July 17, 2006 12:34:55 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Italians in Mexico (Lomelini) research Digest, Vol 6, Issue 16

Hello Alicia & Rose,
I like Maria and most likely others that have alteno ancestry
descend from Carlos Lomelini too, so please count me in too. The
prologue mentioned by Alicia lists several of our ancestors: Manuel
Gomez, Francisco Gtz. Rubio. If there is even more in the

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Hello Alicia, it's been many years since your post about your sister-in-law's lineage, but I was wondering if you or her found information on Joseph Ximenes and Antonia Lomelin's marriage or parents. I am from this line through their son Manuel Ximenes Lomelin born in August, 1721. I believe he may be the first born son. They had children through 1750. I found that their children's birth records are listed in Nochistlan, but are recorded as born in Mexticacan, Jalisco. I am just beginning the research of this line, but I found Lorenzo Ximenes and Ana Carranza -or Carasal, fitting the time frame and also recorded in Nochistlan as possible parents. Manuel married Luisa de Sandobal and they named one of their sons Lorenzo. I am from Manual's son Mariano and Luiza Martin de Campo's lineage. Thank you for any information you could share. Cynthia Jimenez

Comentario

Yes, that Duran book does sound interesting. I'm still on the hunt for more
Italian information in Mexico on the net. Imagine my surprise to find out I
have two Italian lines not just one. I have other surnames that may be
Italian also but these are lines I'm having a problems with, Pompa and
Pisana in Aguascalientes. These people just seem to appear from no where...I
joke with my mother and tell her that they were delivered via an UFO.

Rose

Comentario

There is a town just outside of San Miguel de Allende that was settled
by Italians. They apparently still do beautiful tailoring work. In
SMdA there is a cheese shop called Formaggio. Marge:)
On Jul 17, 2006, at 8:33 PM, rose hardy wrote:

> Yes, that Duran book does sound interesting. I'm still on the hunt for
> more
> Italian information in Mexico on the net. Imagine my surprise to find
> out I
> have two Italian lines not just one. I have other surnames that may be
> Italian also but these are lines I'm having a problems with, Pompa and
> Pisana in Aguascalientes. These people just seem to appear from no
> where...I
> joke with my mother and tell her that they were delivered via an UFO.
>
> Rose
>
>

"Ameca, protofundación mexicana" gratis en Google Books

Published by V.Q.C. –
Foros
History, Culture and General Discussion

Compañeros genealogistas:

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Comentario

Hola,

Te agradezco la noticia. Tengo problemas para ver el libro en visión completa, sólo puedo acceder a fragmentos y es complicado extraer la información de esa forma. Le di click a tu link pero eso no cambia el resultado,¿Te pasa lo mismo que a mí o tu sí puedes verlo en versión completa?

Gracias de antemano, me interesa de sobremanera ver ese libro.

Saludos.

Enrique Agraz

Comentario

Éste es el enlace que te deja leer el libro:

https://books.google.com/books?id=8IpnAAAAMAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=A…

Es que me equivoqué y puse un enlace indirecto. También puedes leer el libro en la aplicación Google Play Books. Espero que Google Books haga lo mismo con "Esbozos históricos de Tecolotlán", libro indispensable para los genealogistas con linajes en Tecolotlán y Cocula.

Reading

Published by Cortes –
Foros
Genealogy Research

Can someone help me translate a document. I'm having a hard time reading it.

Thanks

Maria Cortes

maria.cortes@trin.net

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Excellent Maps

Published by bjmrqz –
Foros
History, Culture and General Discussion

Someone once shared with me an excellent, free, online map collection called the "David Rumsey Historical Map Collection." Here are links to a collection of old maps from:

Aguascalientes

Suscribirse a