Presentación personal / Personal Introduction

Presentación personal / Personal Introduction

Saludos a todos / Greetings everyone,

I am new to the group, although not so new to doing Los Altos genealogical research. My name is Kassandra Brenot; I am the great-grand-daughter of a Los Altos couple who came to the U.S. during the cristero war.
About 25 years ago I began researching my family roots in Los Altos, thanks to my Marquez cousins and the Somos Primos group in the greater Los Angeles area (including Mimi Lozano and Mary Lou Montagna and the stellar work they all got me going on, for which I shall be forever indebted). While my professional and family duties have pulled me away from my passion for genealogy over the course of the past twenty years or so, through some recent unexpected encounters through my work I have reconnected with my Los Altos roots...

I am the head of an all girls, Catholic boarding school in Monterey, California and have discovered that a few of the families at my school are Los Altos families! Knowing the prevalence of endogamia amongst los alteños, I figured we must be related so.... during my summer vacation, I dug back into my old files and jumped online and have been helping these families get started on researching their lines.

Lo and behold, we are related and we are now looking to start a small Los Altos research group here on the Monterey Peninsula. We had our first mini-get together last night with a small group that represented Ramirez, Loza, Campos and Gutierrez. Some of the members of these families immigrated only within the past 20 years, while others immigrated in the 1950s, settling in the Salinas Valley. As for my own family, it was my great-grandparents María Gonzalez Muñoz and José Lorenzo Loza Muñoz who emigrated from San Miguel el Alto to Carpinteria, California in 1926. Some of the names I am researching farther back in my lines (in the areas of Jalostotitlán, San Juan, Aguascalientes and Ayo el Chico) are the following:

Baeza
Becerra
Camacho-Riquelme
Fernández de Rueda
García de Miranda
González de Rubalcava
Hernández de Arellano
Hurtado de Mendoza
Lomellini
López de Fueresclava
Muños de Nava y Estrada
Loza y Linares
Lozano Vásquez
Machuca
Ornelas
Vásquez Cermeño

Through this group, I hope to fill in a few holes I have in my chart, as well as to help guide some of these families as they begin discovering the joy of researching their Los Altos family history. What I also hope to learn more about through this group is the rich history and traditions of the Los Altos region: I was only about 8 when my great-grandmother died so what little I know about Los Altos is what I have read about, found online, or heard about through cousins, grandparents and family friends.

(Hablo español)

Saludos a todos,
Kassandra

Hacienda de la Punta

Hello,

Comentarios

Comentario

Virginia,

I was scrolling through the book The Haciendas of Mexico by Paul Alexander Bartlett and I found information related to your request in the book's second chapter, Through the Eyes of Hacienda Visitors. I think it's just a little bit of what you're looking for.

Here's the link:
https://jupiter.ai/books/XNz5/#chap02

Comentario

Hola Virginia:

En la sección Álbumes de ésta página hay fotografías e historias de varios habitantes de la hacienda La Punta como doña Gabina Bocanegra y allí hay también historia de las personas que trabajaban en favor del Mayorazgo de Ciénega de Mata.

Saludos

Marcelina

Comentario

Hola Virginia:

En el Siglo XIX perteneció a la familia Rincón Gallardo, don José María Rincón Gallardo dividió el Mayorazgo en 12 porciones, una para cada hijo, La Punta le tocó a Eduardo, el menor.
Para mayores detalles puedes ver el libro "Haciendas y ranchos de Aguascalientes" de Jesús Gómez Serrano (online). Páginas 178, 179, 180.

Sobre el siglo XX encontré un artículo que habla sobre los dueños de la Hacienda, la familia Madrazo Solórzano y luego la familia Baca.

http://heraldo.mx/desde-la-ventana-23-de-febrero/

Saludos

Marcelina

looking for records pertaining to francisco de lira and or related families

my search so far has taken me to the 9th great grandparents of me known as francisco de lira and or barbara perez.

Comentarios

Comentario

Hi Steph,

Francisco de Lira was son of Juan de Lira and Maria de la Cruz (my g6s); Barbara de la Concepcion Sanchez Perez was daughter of Salvador Sanchez and Petrona Perez. They were married 19 May 1695, in Cienega de Mata.

Juan de Lira was son of Francisco de Lira and Maria Francisca Hernandez, who were Indians (criados of Juan Marin of Aguascalientes, in 1654). Maria de la Cruz, aka Maria de la Candelaria Quezada, was daughter of Nicolas Quezada and Maria de la Cruz, Mestizos from San Felipe, Gto. Juan de Lira and Maria de la Cruz did their IM in San Felipe on 20 Nov 1666, and they were married there, on 26 Jan 1667. After marrying, she started using her mother's name, Maria de la Cruz.

The Lira's lived on Chinampas, in Cienega de Mata. There were other families named Lira who lived on Chinampas, contemporaries, who are probably siblings of Francisco de Lira (I), though I haven't been able to link them.

Saludos!
Manny Diez Hermosillo

Comentario

Hi Steph,

From my notes: Francisco de Lira and Francisca Hernandez were said to be servants on the hacienda called Chinampas, in Cienega de Mata, Ojuelos, Jal.

Though the only primary source document I’ve seen categorizes Francisco and Francisca as Indios, as adults, their children would be listed as Mestizos.

The children of Francisco de Lira and Francisca Hernandez are:

a. Juan de Lira Hernandez, m. Maria de la Cruz, 26 Jan 1667, San Felipe Apostol, Gto.
b. Nicolasa de Lira Hernandez, m. Gabriel Garcia, 27 Jul 2670, Inmaculada Concepcion, Cienega de Mata, Ojuelos, Jal.
c. Maria de Lira Hernandez, m. Blas Martin de los Reyes, 2 Jun 1673, Inmaculada Concepcion, Cienega de Mata, Ojuelos, Jal.
d. Micaela de Lira Hernandez, m. Jose Garcia, 2 Oct 1680, Inmaculada Concepcion, Cienega de Mata, Ojuelos, Jal.
e. Tomas de Lira Hernandez, b. 24 Feb 1654, Asuncion de Maria, Ags; m. Andrea Antonia, 4 Jun 1684, Inmaculada Concepcion, Cienega de Mata, Ojuelos, Jal.
f. Augustin de Lira Hernandez

Comentario

Hi to you Manny I meets another cousin ! this is wonderful-- I did find out that Salvador Sanchez in record shown here for marriage listed his parents so we are one step closer whoo hoo! did find a few of his children also which is great! am i reading that correctly? if my mind serves me correctly the term was servant? is there any way we can see or find out what the marins were like or anything? interested to know more of the family histories.ty!https://familysearch.org/search/record/results?count=20&query=%2Bgivenn…

Comentario

Hi Steph,

There was more than one man named Juan de Lira, living on Cienega de Mata and at the same time. There were also:

- Juan de Lira “II” cc Maria de la Rosa (born bef 1655); parents of Juan de Lira “IIb” cc Juana de Dios Ubaldo.
- Juan de Lira “III”cc Maria de la Concepcion (born bef 1658)
- Juan de Lira “IV” cc Andrea Beatriz India (born bef 1671)

As far as I can tell, the first 2 are not the same person, since they had children at the same time. Juan IV might be one of the others.

Neither of them are Juan de Lira “I” cc Maria de la Cruz aka Maria de la Encarnacion Quezada, since their timelines don’t match up (less than 9 months between births of children).

There are other “Lira’s” living on Chinampas who I haven’t been able to identify; they might be related, or “Lira” could’ve been a “Christian” surname given to newly indoctrinated Indians, the way “Cruz” and “Reyes” were used. Also, you’ll have hijos naturales of Lira women, and orphans, raised in Lira households, who

Sagrario Baptism

Can anyone help read this record?

I read Diego mason de rutia cc Maria de Sotomayor parents of
Joan born 2 July 1602

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33SQ-GG2L-1BS

Comentarios

Comentario

Hi Simona,

That's Joan hijo de Do Machon de Orutia (Diego Machon de Orrutia) y de Maria de Sotomayor (aka Maria de Vela). Padrinos Po de Uma (Pedro de Umendia) and Franca Medina.

Saludos!
Manny Diez Hermosillo

Comentario

Hello,
I have listed Don Diego Machon de Orrutia as the grandfather of my 11th GGrandmother Brigida Ortiz de Urrutia (1618-1670) but my research ends at Brigida so no documentation passed that.
Does anyone have confirmation of their relationship? or that his Don Diego is the same?
Thanks,
Maven

Comentario

Hi Simona,

Yes, Machon is part of the surname, and Urrutia is the correct spelling. Look in RMB’s Diccionario, p 375.

Maven, did your Brigida Ortiz de Urrutia live in San Luis Potosi? If so, I’ll keep my eyes open.

Saludos,
Manny Diez Hermosillo

Comentario

Hi manny,
Brigida was born in fresnillo in 1680 and died in Tlaltenango in 1670. It's possible her parents were from SLP~ Maria Bernal de Zúñiga, and Hernando Machado Rangel.
Thanks!
Maven

Luisa de Villegas

Hello Nuestros Ranchos Forum,

i have a question about Luisa de Villegas that is married to Pedro macias
valadez.

Comentarios

Comentario

Hi Danny,
I've seen those trees too. But, I would tend to doubt that Francisco Solano Calderón de Villegas and Francisca Jiménez Altamirano are the parents of Luisa de Villegas. If you look at the known births of her children with Pedro Macías Valadéz, they were all born between 1617 and 1625, which puts the birth of Luisa de Villegas closer to 1600 and Francisco Solano Calderón de Villegas and Francisca Jiménez Altamirano would've been born much closer to 1500, probably 1530s or earlier.
Chris

From: Danny Alonso
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2017 12:35 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Luisa de Villegas

Hello Nuestros Ranchos Forum,

i have a question about Luisa de Villegas that is married to Pedro macias
valadez. i'm trying to find out who her parents are and ive seen on
Nuestros Ranchos that there are posts that say she's the daughter of
Francisco Solano de Villegas Calderon and Francisca jimenez Altamirano. Ive
also seen trees that say

HACIENDA EL MAGUEY

Alguien tiene informacion, referencias o tips sobre la Hacienda de San Jose del Maguey en Fresnillo 1800-1850? listas de pobladores o trabajadores o su historia, DONDE CONSULTAR.
Gracias

Comentarios

Comentario

Hola a todos, tengo entendido que la familia de mi tatarabuela doña María de la Luz Gordoa y Montes de Oca era dueña de esta hacienda.

Ella fue hija de don Juan Nepomuceno Gordoa y Díaz de León, (Juan se cree que nacio en 1827 en otra hacienda de la familia la Hacienda de Santa Teresa en El Cantón de Lagos y si no nacio en esa hacienda entonces nacio en San Luis Potosi, SLP, MEX.) y de Flavia Montes de Oca y Hermosillo, ellos mis chosnoabuelos.

Doña Luz Gordoa y Montes de Oca fue nieta de estos personajes ilustres de su epoca.

Abuelos Paternales:
Don José Miguel Benito Gordoa y Moyeda (1797-???? Sierra de Pinos, Zacatecas,MEX)
y de
Doña Felipa Jacoba Luisa Díaz de León y Maurica (1809-???? Catorce, San Luis Potosí, México)

Existían dos retratos de oleo de ellos que lamanetablemente se perdieron en un incendio que hubo en la casa de ellos.

Abuelos maternales:
Don Cipriano Montes de Oca y Hernández (nacido en Ayotlán, Jalisco, México)
y de
Doña María Sabina Hermosillo y Delgadillo

Comentario

Carlos Peredo

Estimados amigos, es probable que no haya necesidad de regresar al tema de la Hacienda de San José del Maguey en Zacatecas ya que se discutió hace algunos años sobre eso; sin embargo, me parece bueno que quede en este tema una breve historia de dicha Hacienda desde inicios de los 1700´s hasta su desmembramiento en el siglo XX.

Resulta que en 1702 Don Pedro Sánchez de Tagle y Pérez de Bustamante compra por 160,000 pesos varías Haciendas enormes que habían sido de Don Alonso Estrada Altamirano entre las que estaban : San José de Bravo en Queretaro, Ocotes en la Villa de León, Tarimoro y Cienega (por La Piedad y La Barca respectivamente),y diversas tierras por Huaxtla, Tala y Tequila, además la Hacienda de Santa Ana Pacueco a orillas de la Piedad, Mich. que por sí sola era un gran latifundio de más de 150,000 hectáreas según investigación de Ramón Goyas Mejía de Investigaciones Históricas de la UNAM.

El mismo Goyas Mejía nos dice que Don Pedro no se quedó sin dinero tras

Comentario

Gracias Christopher, articulo intersantisimo, San Joseph del Maguey era unas
de la haciendas que formaba nuestro mayorazgo durante varios siglos.

Daniel

> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: mound_oxley@yahoo.com
> Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2010 21:21:44 -0700
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Hacienda San Jose del Maguey
>
> The following pdf is full of information about the Hacienda el Maguey.
>
> http://www.juridicas.unam.mx/publica/librev/rev/hisder/cont/8/cnt/cnt3…
>
> kind regards,
>
> Christopher Barrios de Leon

Comentario

No hay de que. Algo interesante es que no hay niguna referencia a los Perez de Camino en este articulo. Los hacendados de Maguey son los Gordoa. Los Gordoa son descendientes de los Perez de Camino? Como podemos estudiar el mayorazgo de Perez de Camino?

Christopher Barrios de Leon

Comentario

Ah! Los originales que tuvieron la hacienda eran los Marqueses de Altamira, pues los Sanchez de Tagle, de ahi se
paso a los Perez de Camino y de ahi no se como paso a los Gordoa? Pues ya para los fines de la independencia
parece que ya no tuvimos la hacienda de San Joseph el Maguey. Buena suerta en buscar sobre el mayorazgo
de los Perez de Camino, es un tema que no se ha estudiado. Los unicos que si lo han estudiado bastante son
Mariano Gonzalez Leal, Marques de San Clemente y don Fernando Munoz Altea, unos de mis mejores amigos.
Amo a sus estudios que me han ayudado bastante.

Hay poco de mas de mil documentos sobre el mayorazgo de los Perez de Camino, primermente en los archivos de
mis casa materna, segundo el Archivo General de la Nacion de Mexico y luegos Archivos de Zacatecas, Aguascalientes.
Tambien puedes encontrar informaciones en Archivos de Indias en Sevilla, lugares como Sala de hijosdalgo en Madrid
o la Real Chancelleria de Valladolid en Castilla. Este pdf que envio

Comentario

El señor Daniel Pérez del Camino, miente. Confunde la genealogía con la megalomanía personal y sus pretensiones. Por eso dice tantos disparates.

Los Gordoa no tienen que ver en lo absoluto con los Pérez del Camino y es falso que existan miles de documentos de San José del Maguey en el AGN de la capital mexicana y en otros acervos.

Mi padre fue Rafael Tovar y Fernández de Villa Gordoa y su abuela fue Refugio Gordoa de Fernández de Villa, hermana carnal de Don Manuel Gordoa, dueño de la Hacienda del Maguey. Conozco el archivo familiar, lo que existe en los archivos de Guadalajara, de Zacatecas y otros en Mèxico (Inclutendo el AGN, Notarìas, Condumex, poe ejemplo. Todos los documentos prueban que el Maguey fue propiedad de los Gordoa en el siglo XIX, pero jamàs de un "Mayorazgo Pèrez del Camino", que nunca existiò y que no existe relaciòn de una familia con otra.

¿De donde este señor Mèndez del camino, saca tales tonterìas? ¡De donde saca que San Josè del Maguey fue de su familia?

No

Comentario

Senor Tovar de Teresa:

Lo siento mucho, pero no hablo espanol muy bien.

I write verbatim. This is public information since it is on the Internet.

I would like to draw your attention to the following:

http://www.heraldaria.com/phorum5/read.php?3,6441,6441#msg-6441

Quisiera preguntaros como o a donde voy a poder probar mi nobleza? Mi familia es muy reconocida en todo Mexico y Espana: los Perez de Camino. Mi abuuel tiene el oficio y encargamiento de mayorazgo aunque ya no tenemos tierra en Mexico, pero siguimos la sucesion por linea mayor y senorial. Tenesmos nuestro Ejecutoria de Nobleza fechado 1538 pero quisiera oficialmente renovar los honores y privilegios en Espana, y ojala poder reclamar algunos titulos nobiliarios que algun tiempo nos pertenecia. Senor de Casa Camino por linaje familiar otorgado en los 1600s y luego somos parientes lejanos de los Marqueses de San Juan de Rayas una familia nobiliaria de Mexico, ya que no hay que reclama el titulo, podemos ser lo mas

Comentario

Por favor Christopher no empieza como el Sr. Tovar.

Daniel Mendez y Perez de Camino

> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: mound_oxley@yahoo.com
> Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2010 22:41:25 -0700
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Hacienda de San Jose del Maguey
>
> Senor Tovar de Teresa:
>
> Lo siento mucho, pero no hablo espanol muy bien.
>
> I write verbatim. This is public information since it is on the Internet.
>
> I would like to draw your attention to the following:
>
> http://www.heraldaria.com/phorum5/read.php?3,6441,6441#msg-6441
>
> Quisiera preguntaros como o a donde voy a poder probar mi nobleza? Mi familia es muy reconocida en todo Mexico y Espana: los Perez de Camino. Mi abuuel tiene el oficio y encargamiento de mayorazgo aunque ya no tenemos tierra en Mexico, pero siguimos la sucesion por linea mayor y senorial. Tenesmos nuestro Ejecutoria de Nobleza fechado 1538 pero quisiera oficialmente renovar los honores y privilegios en Espana, y ojala poder reclamar

Comentario

Sr. Tovar:

Necesitamos ser cuidados a comentar, especialmente que ya está comprobado por
registros tengo a lo menos unos 12 registros que saqué del AGN que dice que
era dueño del San Joseph de Maguey que estaba situado poco este de Cienega de Mata,
casi la frontera con San Luis Potosi. No sé que de donde sacó miles de documentos
del San Joseph del Maguey don Guillermo, yo dije mi familia materna tiene miles de documentos en los archivos que hemos conseguido ya por años. Se les puedo enviar copia del expediente, aunque no lo merece ver con estos ataques, hasta usted puede fijarse en, haga búsqueda en el guía del sitio del AGN que esta online.

Mi familia ya fue estudiado por Fernando Muñoz Altea y Mariano González Leal, amigos cercanos, les puedes preguntar. Especialmente Fernando Muñoz Altea que ha escrito y estudiado bastante sobre las familias montañeses.

Si Ud. se considera un genealogista serio debe estudiar primeramente. Es como cuando Ud. me dijo que era mentira que mis

Comentario

Yo he sido coautor de Mariano y de Fernando en dos libros y los conozco hace
más de treinta años y me dicen que apenas si le conocen.

Alfonso Ceballos también lo conozco yes gente seria.

No existe ningún Mayorazgo Pérez del Camino.

Usted contamina "Nuestros Ranchos" con sus mentiras y sus pretensiones.

Usted debe madurar y reflexionar seriamente.

Cordialmente

GTT

-----Mensaje original-----
De: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] En nombre de Daniel
Mendez y Perez de Camino
Enviado el: Miércoles, 13 de Octubre de 2010 12:38 a.m.
Para: Patty Hoyos
Asunto: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] La hacienda del Maguey fue de los Gordoa.

Sr. Tovar:

Necesitamos ser cuidados a comentar, especialmente que ya está comprobado
por
registros tengo a lo menos unos 12 registros que saqué del AGN que dice que
era dueño del San Joseph de Maguey que estaba situado poco este de Cienega
de Mata,
casi la frontera con San Luis Potosi. No sé que de

Comentario

Tus Gordoa compraron la hacienda pues San Jose del Maguey en parece entre 1808-1815.
Tu antepasado, el Lic. Antonio Maria de Gordoa por venta de los Apezechea por casi
211, 421.0 1/4 reales. Es verdad que los Gordoa lo poseyeron ya despues de 1800 pero
antes, que yo quiero saber como se paso de nosotros a los Apezecheas pues luego
a los Gordoa. Perdon por mi comentario que era muy fuerte, es que no me gusta cuando
ataquen mi trabajo, si esta comprobado. Manuel Silvestre Perez Camino murio en 1767 or 1757
se me olvida. En el expediente que envie dice en la jurisdiccion de Fresnillo y Jerez.
No hay otro San Joseph de Maguey en esa area? No puedo
negar que mi familia era due~nos Sr. Tovar esta comprobado con los expedientes que tengo.
Disfortunamente necesito estar desacuerodo un Ud. si existe un mayorazgo Perez de Camino,
debe visitar La Rioja algun dia en una ciudad que se llama Casa-La Reina, donde es nuestro
casa solar.

Daniel Mendez y Perez de Camino

> From: gmotovar@prodigy

Comentario

Entiendo que hay un desacuerdo. No está dentro de mi maestría a comentar
respecto a este tema. Quisiera que cada uno tienen calma y conducir esta
discusión de una manera más pacífica o llevarla el email privado. En mi
opinión puede ser que sea demasiado atrasado continuar de una manera
pacífica así que pienso que el email privado es el mejor. Gustaria en
realmente no conseguir en esta discusión otra vez, por favor.

Si la discusión continúa con los tonos irrespetuosos No tengo ninguna
opción pero quitar ésos implicados de privilegios de la discusión del
email.

=================

I understand there is a disagreement. It is not within my expertise to
comment on this subject.

I would like everyone to calm down and either conduct this discussion in
a more peaceful manner or take it to private email. In my opinion it
might be too late to continue in a peaceful manner so I think private
email is best.

I'd really not like to get involved in this discussion again, please.

If the

Comentario

Has visto el libro de Antonio Garcia Cuebas?
http://biblio2.colmex.mx/bibdig/dicc_cubas/base3.htm
Sigue el enlace.

Saludos desde Lago Salado (Salt Lake City)

Eduardo H Seoane

2010/8/20

> Alguien tiene informacion, referencias o tips sobre la Hacienda de San Jose
> del Maguey en Fresnillo 1800-1850? listas de pobladores o trabajadores o su
> historia, DONDE CONSULTAR.
> Gracias
> Humberto Pro
> frio@prodigy.net.mx
>

New member-Gallardo-Rico

Hello,

Comentarios

Comentario

Hi Virginia,

Welcome to the group! I don’t have the Gallardo nor Rico families in my lines, but I’m sure they married into mine. Several of my lines lived in the parish of Cienega de Mata, Ojuelos, and in the surrounding parishes. Most of the haciendas in the area belonged to the Rincon Gallardo family, who might be your ancestors. When was your grandfather born?

La Punta still exists, as far as I know, it’s now a hotel.

Saludos!
Manny Diez Hermosillo

Comentario

Manny,
Thank you for answering. My grandfather was Salvador Rico Gallardo, born August 1917 or 1918. Both are listed in Ancestry. My mother says 1918. He was about 2 years old when Magdalena Rico crossed the border. She lived in Yuma, AZ until her death.
Magdalena's parents were Francisco Rico and Teodora Victorino. They married in Ledesmo, but moved to Hacienda de la Punta soon after. Their first child was born there (Tomas Rico).

About dispensa

When a marriage record say this "Ambos dispensados por el Sr. Provisor en este Obispado en la nominacion conciliar" Does it mean that there is a marriage dispensation?

upload
wfwfvw.JPG (88.64 KB)

Comentarios

Comentario

Así es colega, los curas casi siempre notaban en los registros matrimoniales parroquiales si fuesen dispensados y en que grado por consanguinidad o afinidad.

Un saludo,

Daniel Méndez de Torres y Camino

Comentario

Por desgracias las dispensas de 1827 no existen microfilmada en la seccion del Sagrario de Guadalajara, busque en el apartado de Diocesis de Guadalajara en los 4 catalogos que hay y no encontre nada, lo malo que ahi son de todo el obispado.

Comentario

Yes, there should be a marriage dispensation on record.

I wish you luck finding it. Sometimes it takes a long time to track down such records. In this case it states that the Sr Provisor approved the dispensation so I would first check the city where the bishop resided.

Rick A. Ricci

Arroyo Seco TEocaltiche

Alguien me podría decir donde es Arroyo SECO, actualmente en Teocaltiche.

Comentarios

Comentario

Go to google Map type in "Arroyo Seco de Arriba, Jalisco, Mexico" and it will show you were Arroyo Seco Teocaltiche is at it is close to Villa Hidalgo. hope that helps

Announce Digest, Vol 115, Issue 1

Hay manera de comparar DNA?

Comentarios

Jilotlan De Los Dolores Records before 1800

Im researching-Torres, Valencia, Del Toro in JIlotlan de los Dolores Jalisco but I can't seem to find records before 1800. Is there another place where I should be looking instead.

Comentarios

Comentario

Hi Aaron,

Where is Jilotlan de Los Dolores? What state is it in, and near what other cities?

Thanks,
Rick A. Ricci

Comentario

Hi Aaron/Rick,

Jilotlan is a "border" town that's close to the Jalisco/Michoacan border on the Jalisco-side. It's not far away from Cotija, Tamazula, etc. In fact, the "cabecera" of Jilotlan was/is? Tamazula. During the colonial era, Jilotlan belonged to the jurisdiction of the "Obispado de Michoacan" Around 1795, the jurisdiction changed to that of "Obispado de la Nueva Galicia/Guadalajara".

As for its parochial records, prior to 1822, they no longer exist - the archive (pre-1822) was a tragic victim of the Mexican war of independence and the sacking and pillaging by the "insurgentes".

Like with Cotija, the only traces of information you'll find for inhabitants of Jilotlan (pre-1822) will be through the marriage dispensations (in the Obispado de Michoacan and Guadalajara) and any other number of wills/land grant documents, etc. Plus, whatever you can find around neighboring towns. (Check in Colima, Tamazula, Zapotlan el Grande(Ciudad Guzman), Ayo el Chico, etc.

I can tell you

Comentario

Hi Daniel,

Just my luck looks like all the places I'm researching pre-1800 records were destroyed, but I did find some records in the surrounding towns of Tamazula, Tepalcatepec, and Ciudad Guzman. That's really good information explains why they moved around a lot.

Thanks again Daniel appreciates the help.

Aaron Torres

Investigador halla descendientes de Moctezuma y Cortés

Nota completa sobre el libro "México insólito en Europa" de Miguel Gleason:

http://www.eluniversal.com.mx/articulo/cultura/2017/04/5/investigador-h…

VN

Comentarios

Comentario

Buenas noches a todos los miembros de este foro
un cordial saludos
todos los interesados sobre la dinastía Moctezuma
yo desciendo de lope ll ruiz de esparza y ana franca gabay por 6 hijos de esta pareja , ana francisca gabay hija de
martin gabay el navarro y Petronila Moctezuma.
alguien sabe sobre algún documento donde se demuestre que Petronila Moctezuma es bisnieta del emperador Moctezuma?

esperemos resolver este misterio sobre la ascendencia de Petronila de Moctezuma
agradezco la atención prestada
muchas gracias

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Así es, esa "investigación" no tiene nada novedoso, los descendientes de Moctezuma son miles y están en todo el mundo, de hecho se puede afirmar que una gran parte de la alta nobleza española SON DESCENDIENTES DE MOCTEZUMA. Nada más como muestra podemos tomar a las DOS mujeres que en el siglo XX tenían los récord guinnes de más títulos nobiliarios en el mundo : Las duquesas DE ALBA, Y MEDINACELI, dueñas de más castillos, palacios y títulos que los monarcas españoles o ingleses; ambas duquesas eran descendientes de Moctezuma, lo cual significa que la sangre del Rey azteca se mezcló con infinidad de títulos españoles y hasta ingleses

Intro-Torres, Ramos, Cisneros, Velasquez Mazamitla, Jalisco-Valencia, Cotija,Michoacan

Saludos Primos! My Name Is Aaron Torres, I live out In Washington State.

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Aaron,

Welcome to the group. I am also a Valencia (from Cotija, Michoacán). This is my second great grandfather's line,

D. Vicente de Valencia cc.Da. Josefa de Oseguera y Bustamante (aunt of Anastasio Ruiz de Bustamante y Oseguera, Pres. of Méx
D. Cayetano Antonio de Valencia cc. Da. Josefa de Figueroa (m. 13 Jun 1833)
Da. Francisca de Valencia y Figueroa cc. D. Guadalupe Méndez de Torres y de la Cueva Villaseñor-Lomelín (m. 21 Apr 1873)

I would also recommend searching nearby towns as our ancestors tended to marry in nearby towns as well, like Daniel has stated not all hope is lost.

Un saludo,

Daniel Méndez de Torres y Camino

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Saludos de California Aaron y bienvenido al grupo!

A good portion of the records from Cotija were burned around the time of the Mexican Revolution. As such, the records for Cotija are very sparse as you've found out. That's the bad news. The good news is that our ancestors inter-married quite a bit and constantly had to solicit marriage dispensations from the bishopric of Michoacan. You may have some luck in finding marriage information for some of your earlier ancestors (Vicente Valencia cc Dolores Zepeda) in the parish records for Morelia using this link:

https://familysearch.org/search/catalog/320251?availability=Family%20History%20Library

Note, the records are not indexed, you'll have to search film by film.

I am also a Valencia and have done a bit of research on my Valencia roots. I'm sure we're distant cousins given that my Valencia branch has roots in Cotija and beyond.

Daniel Serna Valencia

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Daniel Serna,

I started looking into the Morelia records! Will definitely keep looking into them and see if I find any information. I did notice the intermarriage of our ancestors going through some records and from family stories. We could be distant cousins since they all come from Cotija.

Daniel Mendez,

There's a lot of records in Aguililla, Michoacan of Valencias that moved there from Cotija but I haven't been able to make the connection with my Valencias need to keep digging eventually ill find something. Im sure the documents are there just got to dig deep and find them.

Thanks guys appreciate the help.

Aaron Torres

Help on information on Capitan Protector Juan Sebastian Orendayn (Orendain) 1727

I had found a personality of our pueblo of Huejuquilla El Alto, Jalisco, Mexico:

http://oi64.tinypic.com/jg6zyu.jpg

Original source is on top left:

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Juan De Orendain (Espanol)
1685–Deceased • 9J81-HVN​
Dona Ana Manuela de Escobedo
Deceased • 9J81-HVT​
Marriage: 19 May 1706
Sagrario Metropolitano, Saltillo, Coahuila, Mex

This is most likely him born around 1680 based on his Marriage record.
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-6SQ7-ZK7

both his name Sebastian and her name Manuela are not used but maybe on their children's records though none are attached to this record.

I put Espanol as stated because there is a family in cienega Grande records found in Asientos who used the name Orendai, Orenday (ML) but have an alias Gudalaxara

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-DHQQ-7FY

Juan Moscoso y Sandoval

Mr. Clark,

Juan Moscoso y Sandoval is an Ancestor mine. I dont have Baltasar Moscos y
Sandoval in my records can you tell me who he was married to so I can add
him to my tree

Danny C. Alonso

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Danny:

I don't have that information.

I am at the early stage which for me involves reviewing a lot of records and cross checking them and drawing inferences.

First, Juan Moscoso y Sandoval who has an unusual and perhaps unique last name was supposedly born in 1583 in Mexico. What we have which is not much is on page 15 in Chapter 5 of Jose Luis Vasquez y Rodriguez de Frias' book on Nochistlan. No parents of his are identified.

At about this same time, 1589, Baltasar Moscoso y Sandoval was born but in Santiago de Compostela Spain and we know Baltasar's father's name. See this hyperlink: https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baltasar_Moscoso_y_Sandoval. The Moscoso y Sandoval family has a Ulloa in it.

At this point, I think that the place of birth for Juan Moscoso y Sandoval is probably not accurate. I have a feeling that Juan and Baltasar were brothers. Please notice that there are Ulloas in Nochistlan.

Of course, I need more data before I would insert Baltasar into my family tree

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Oh, I didnt realize you meant that Baltasar de Moscoso y Sandoval. I agree
and thought that too and mentioned it here a few months ago. He had a
brother Melchior to that was also a priest like Baltasar. its to strange a
name for them not to be related.

http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/23035?page=2

Danny C. Alonso

On Sun, Dec 20, 2015 at 9:16 AM, wrote:

> Danny: I don't have that information. I am at the early stage which for me
> involves reviewing a lot of records and cross checking them and drawing
> inferences. First, Juan Moscoso y Sandoval who has an unusual and perhaps
> unique last name was supposedly born in 1583 in Mexico. What we have which
> is
> not much is on page 15 in Chapter 5 of Jose Luis Vasquez y Rodriguez de
> Frias' book on Nochistlan. No parents of his are identified. At about this
> same time, 1589, Baltasar Moscoso y Sandoval was born but in Santiago de
> Compostela Spain and we know Baltasar's father's name. See this hyperlink:
> https://es.wikipedia

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The name isn't so unique

Lope de Mocoso Osorio VI Conde de Altamira married to Condesa Leonor de Sandoval y Roxas had descendants who used the Moscoso Sandoval surname.

Lope is the son of Rodrigo de Moscoso, V Conde de Altamira and Isabel Castro

Rodrigo is the son of Conde Lope Moscoso Osorio IV Conde de Altamira and Condes Ana de Toledo

Leonor is the daughter of Francisco Sandoval and Marquesa Isabel de Borgia

Isabel is the daughter of Francisco Borgia, Duque de Gandia, and ones Duquesa Leonor Castro,

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Hello Nuestros Ranchos Forum,

I found this mention of Juan Moscoso y Sandoval and it looks like it comes from Somos Primos. Does anyone know how to access this information about Juan Moscoso y Sandoval? Is this the same Somos Primos we get every month? Is it archived somewhere?

https://books.google.com/books?id=THsOAQAAMAAJ&q=%22Juan+Moscoso+y+Sand…

Danny C. Alonso

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Hello Danny,

This info is found at the site you posted:

Juan Lozano was born in Aguascalientes in 1612 married c. 1643 in Nochistlan, Zacatecas to Josefa Sandoval daughter of Juan Moscoso Sandoval and Catalina Cortes.
Josefa d. 7/May /1674 and Juan Lozano d. 24/Sep/1686, both d. In Nochistlan , Zacatecas.

1.
Somos primos.
Author: Society of Hispanic Historical and Ancestral Research.
Publisher: Fullerton, CA : Society of Hispanic Historical and Ancestral Research, 1990-1999.

////////::/:///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////33333333333///////:::::::

This is not on your site but I thought it may help you:

For Catalina Cortes's family see Manny's wonderful work : http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/23035

Here is some more info on this family:
http://www.wikitree.com/genealogy/de%20Sandoval-Descendants-10

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I recently acquired via ILL Sandoval, L. F. (2004). Mexticacán en imágenes. Guadalajara, Jal. [Mexico]: Acento Editores. Attached is a chapter discussing the beginnings of Mexticacan. There are some familiar names.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/5ilkq4isy5xernu/Sandoval%20L%20F%20%282004%29…

The author states Juan Moscoso y Sandoval is the son of Mateo Vasquez de Sandoval. Opinions??

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this is great. I think that makes sense. my ancestor Juana de la Asencion Vasquez de Sandoval that married Andres Duran uses Vasquez de Sandoval even though she's Juan Moscoso y Sandoval's daughter, so that's probly where she got the name. i wonder who Mateo Vasquez de Sandoval's parents were.

Danny C. Alonso

Comentario

Thank you for sharing this information, specially of Mateo Vásquez de Sandoval as Father of Juan de Moscoso y Sandoval. But I would like to know where the author of the book got his information being that Mexticacán's Records only date from 1774 for Baptisms and 1775 for Marriages. How can we verify the information and possibly find his ascendants? What other records exist elsewhere that we can research?

Comentario

Prior to 1774, many of Mexticacan's records belonged to el Municipio de
Nochistlan, Zacatecas.
In his book, Genealogia de Nochistlan, Antiguo Reino de la Nueva Galicia en
el Siglo XVII, Segun Sus Archivos Parroquiales, the author,
Jose Luis Vazquez y Rodriguez de Frias, has the following 2 chapters;

Capitulo 5, descendants of Catalina Cortez, viuda de Juan de Moscoso y
Sandoval el Viejo.
Capitulo 6, he shows the descendants of Diego de Moscoso Sandoval y Maria
Delgadillo o Rodriguez Sandoval

On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 12:59 PM, wrote:

> Thank you for sharing this information, specially of Mateo Vásquez de
> Sandoval as Father of Juan de Moscoso y Sandoval. But I would like to know
> where the author of the book got his information being that Mexticacán's
> Records only date from 1774 for Baptisms and 1775 for Marriages. How can we
> verify the information and possibly find his ascendants? What other records
> exist elsewhere that we can research?
>

Looking for Covarrubias relatives from Cañadas, Jalisco

Hello,

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I don't descend from Jose Maria Covarrubias and Tecla Gomez, but some of their descendants are related to me through other lines. I don't know where they came from originally but have in my notes that I should check Zacatecas and the towns in Jalisco close to Zacatecas. They had many children. Here are a few: Prudencio, Josefa, Plutarca, Carlos, Fermin, and Maria Barbara Covarrubias Gomez.

There is a Jose Maria Covarrubias that married to a Gomez in 1827 in Guadalajara. Maybe Tecla was a middle name. Here is the info:

Jose Maria Cobarruvias
Spouse's Name Maria De Jesus Gomez Portugal
Event Date 23 Apr 1827
Event Place Sagrario Metropolitano,Guadalajara,Jalisco,Mexico
Citing this Record
"México matrimonios, 1570-1950," database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JZF2-9X3 : 16 July 2015), Jose Maria Cobarruvias and Maria De Jesus Gomez Portugal, 23 Apr 1827; citing Sagrario Metropolitano,Guadalajara,Jalisco,Mexico, reference ; FHL microfilm 38,361.

I recently

Domingo Perez and Juana de Alva lived in Arroyo Seco, Los Ojuelos, Aguasclientes

Domingo Perez and Juana de Alva got Married in Aguascalientes on July 24,1707 some of my researchthey had a Daughter born 1720 in Teocaltiche also a son Calletano Perez born about 1735.

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I had hit a brick wall on my Perez family tree. this record I don't know how you found it cause I have been looking different towns and different places. now I can go forward with my tree I cant thank you enough thank you.

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To Hugo,
I am a descendant of a cousin of Luisa Villalpando. These Villalpando had branches in Aguascalientes, Guanajuato, Zacatecas, Los Altos de Jalisco, and what is now the state of New Mexico in the United States of America. One of my Villapando ancestors was born in Taos, Mew Mexico when his parents were visiting relatives there. His parents were born in Jalostotitlan Jalisco, and they returned there after he was born.

I doubt Calletano was born in 1735. I believe that the date was closer to 1723

To Manny,
Great find! I find it interesting that Domingo Lopez (aka Domingo Perez) used Lopez as a surname in his marriage record. Do you know if the Lopez came from a paternal grandparent? I didn't find Lopez on the maternal side though I don't know much about Juan de Alba.

Juan de Alva and Michaela Lomelin also had a daughter named Getrudis de Alva. Here is her marriage record:

Juan Rubio De Zepeda
Spouse's Name Getrudis De Alva
Event Date 07 Jun 1700
Event Place San Agustin,Ayo