Fw: Jacinta de Sotomayor & Blas Nieto

Daniel, Jaime, Carolyn, et al

There is no doubt that this is an important piece of the puzzle.

Comentarios

Comentario

Hi all--

Looking at the comments to the postings on the Nieto family, I wonder if my ancestor, Jose Manuel Francisco Nieto, who married Maria Rafaela Herrera in Pinos in 1754, descends from the same Nieto family. His parents are Joseph Nieto Corona and Maria de Mendosa y Balberde. In his marriage record, Jose Manuel Francisco is noted having been born in Pinzandaro, Michocan (I can't seem to locate records for this hacienda).

Does anyone recognize my ancestors?

Rosalinda

Comentario

Hi Rosalinda,

The town of Pinzandaro is about 100 miles SW of Morelia, Michoacán. The marriage record from Pinos states that Manuel Francisco Nieto was living "en el puesto de la Noria de Arriba" and María Rafaela Herrera in the Hacienda de San Juan de los Herreras when they got married. As you probably know, several children of Antonio de Castañeda and Thomasa de Carrión were born in La Noria. We recently discovered that María de Castañeda, who married Pedro Nieto Corona in Pinos (24 Jun 1671) was the daughter of Nicolás de Castañeda y Sotomayor and Ana de Vargas Moriano, and also the sister of Antonio de Castañeda, who lived in La Noria with his wife Thomasa de Carrión. I don't have time to research this now (last day to file our income tax returns) but will do so later. I suspect that Joseph Nieto (Manuel Francisco's father) was a direct descendant of Pedro Nieto Corona and María de Castañeda. Look for the marriage of Joseph Nieto and María de Mendoza Valverde in Michoacán

Comentario

Hi Bill,

Please take your time. Since I approximate Manuel Francisco's birth date to be about 1724 to 1734, I would venture to guess his father was born in the late 1600s or early 1700s. I feel that there is a connection, but finding it may be beyond my grasp-- I have tried to look for the records for Pinzandaro, and either they are lost, not filmed by the LDS, or some other thing. Currently Pinzandaro is under the Diocese of Apatzingán, but even their records begin in the mid 1800s. I have looked for these ancestors in the familysearch site, with no success (I have tried all of my tricks). I can only hope to search the Pinos records page by page, but I'm not sure of success there, either.

Rosalinda

Comentario

Jaime, Carolyn, Rosalinda, Daniel, et al:

While checking early records from Sierra de Pinos, I stumbled upon a record of Pedro Nieto Corona having a premarital relationship with Catalina Jiménez, a free black slave, with whom he had at least one child. Apparently, this relationship had been going on for about eight years, until the Church intervened and ordered them to stop it under penalty of excommunication and a 30 peso fine, a significant amount in those days. Catalina Jiménez was pregnant and about to give birth to a child, possibly their illegitimate son Juan Nieto. Although there is a pencil note on this record that reads "Abril 1675", the record itself indicates that the correct date is 20 April 1665. This makes sense because Pedro Nieto Corona married María de Castañeda on 24 June 1671. Pedro and María had at least eight legitimate children. Following is the link and full transcription of this record:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-15245-25060-65?cc

Comentario

Rosalinda,

There seems to be several people with the surname 'Mendoza y Valverde' here are some records that may serve as some clues. I love the new family search, it´s quicker and more organized. It also allows you to see where people with the same surname traveled and settled. This family seems to be very well from Oaxaca, since it´s a compound surname it´s probable that they are somehow related. It seems the surname started with the couple in the last record, but we must always prove it with records that are fidedigno. This is interesting, but I already have done some research on Fernández Cavallero, they originate in Burgos, Castilla they arrived some time at the turn of the XVIII century.

I hope this helps in some manner,
Daniel Méndez de Torres

P.S. Whatever you find, please send me a report, thanks.

Thomas De Mendosa Y Balbarde
Mexico, Marriages, 1570-1950

marriage:24 Aug 1749Sagrario Metropolitano,Oaxaca De Juarez,Oaxaca,Mexico

Comentario

Bill,
Maria Castañeda, married to Pedro Nieto (Neto), is the daughter of Nicolas Castañeda and Antonia Vargas Moriano. Pedro is the son of Pedro Nieto y Josefa Corona. Their marriage information is dated June 1 1671 in Pinos, Zacatecas (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-15245-25386-84?cc=1804458&wc…) and married June 24 1671 also in Pinos. The witnesses state that they are not related. If they were via Jacinta Sotomayor (Nieto), such relationship should have at the 5th degree or higher.

Sincerely

Jaime

Comentario

Jaime,

You just hit another homerun!! This information closes one more gap in my database. Thank you.

Rgds,

Bill

----- Original Message -----
From: Jaime R. Alvarado
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2013 7:50 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Fw: Jacinta de Sotomayor & Blas Nieto

Bill,
Maria Castañeda, married to Pedro Nieto (Neto), is the daughter of Nicolas Castañeda and Antonia Vargas Moriano. Pedro is the son of Pedro Nieto y Josefa Corona. Their marriage information is dated June 1 1671 in Pinos, Zacatecas (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-15245-25386-84?cc=1804458&wc…) and married June 24 1671 also in Pinos. The witnesses state that they are not related. If they were via Jacinta Sotomayor (Nieto), such relationship should have at the 5th degree or higher.

Sincerely

Jaime

Comentario

Daniel Mendez posted the following dispensa for Nicolas de Castaneda and Maria Gomez, who descended from siblings Jacinta de Sotomayor and Blas Nieto: https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18426-82548-41?cc=1874591&wc…

This regards Maria Gomez's lines.

From my own research:
Maria Gomez was the daughter of Mathias Gomez de Sotomayor and Ysabel Ruiz de Villasenor;
Mathias Gomez was the son of Juan Gomez Nieto and Maria Teresa Martin Guerrero;
Juan Gomez was the son of Blas Nieto and ?

Here is the 15 Jun 1748 IM for Juan Antonio Gaitan and Maria Manuela Munoz:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-15263-11463-61?cc=1804458&wc…

The pretensos' grandfathers were 2nd-cousins: the bride's maternal grandfather, Nicolas Gomez de Sotomayor, was the son of Blas Gomez de las Ruelas (and Maria de Avila); Blas Gomez was the son of Juan Gomez de las Ruelas; Juan Gomez was the brother of Gonzalo Gomez de las Ruelas, who was the

Comentario

Bill-

The Inf. Matrimonial for Pedro Nieto (el mozo) and Maria Castaneda is at: https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-15245-25386-84?cc=1804458&wc…

This record states in part:

Pedro Nieto hijo legitimo de Pedro Nieto, ya difunto, y de doña Josefa Corona, españoles...María de Castañeda española criolla del Real y Minas de la Pendencia hija legitima de Nicolás de Castañeda y de Ana de Vargas, españoles

Regards
Austin Perez

Site Down Saturday 11/8

Here is what DreamHost has to say:

We're upgrading your shared web server's operating system to Ubuntu 12.04
this Saturday, November 8th at 8PM PST.

Can someone please read this document for me??

Can someone please translate this document to me.It's not that im lazy i just try really hard to read it and just cant figure out what it says so if anyone can please help me.

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Comentario

Abram, I don't have time to translate it for you but it doesn't name the
parents. Neither does the one in Aguascalientes. However because of the
dispensa we know the mother of Victoria de Sotomayor was María and she was
a sister of Andrés and because of info found in other documents we know the
father of Victoria was Juan Montañez. You will find some posts about him at
the following thread. http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/17966?page=4

The parents of María and Andrés Sotomayor were Andrés Martín Camacho and
María de las Ruelas

Armando

On Thu, Mar 15, 2012 at 9:51 PM, wrote:

> HERE IS THE LINK
>
> https://familysearch.org/pal:/**MM9.3.1/TH-266-12446-30236-66?**
> cc=1410092&wc=6810679
>
> NICOLAS VALLIN AND VICTORIA DE SOTOMAIOR
>

Comentario

Hola Armando:

Es muy valiosa la información que le presentas a Abraham. Sólo como comentario yo también desciendo también desciendo de Don Juan Montañez y de Doña María de Sotomayor, por medio de su hija Luisa de Sotomayor que casó con Don Juan Romero Gallardo el 2 de Septiembre de 1654 en San Luis Potosí, ellos tienen a Jacinta casada con Don Nicolás Del Castillo y Quesada, que son los ancestros directos de mi abuela paterna que lleva el apellido Castillo.

Sólo una duda, he visto que en temas pasados de nuestrosranchos han abordado el tema de Andrés Martín Camacho y María de las Ruelas, por ahí llegué a ver que Doña María de las Ruelas está relacionada con Don Guido de Lavezares, es esto cierto?

Muchas gracias por tus aportes, no se me olvida la información matrimonial que me pasaste en aquella ocasión de Juan Antonio Moreno Espinoza y Ana María Galván Lozano.

Saludos
Enrique Agraz

Comentario

Hi Abram,

I wrote my message in Spanish because for me is easier and also because I know Armando understands it. Sorry about that, hope you have understanded it.
The info. I have is that Juan Montañez was native of Salamanca, Spain and yes he was the son of Juan Montañez and Ana Vicente. Firstly he married Sebastiana Díaz Medel and secondly to María de Sotomayor. María was daughter of Andrés de Martín Camacho and María de las Ruelas, who lived in Sierra de Pinos and were previously mentioned by Armando. My question to him was if María de las Ruelas was a relative to the Philippines' governor Guido de Lavezares, because I saw that information once.

Enrique

Comentario

Hola Enrique:

Desafortunadamente no tengo idea si existió un vínculo entre Doña María de
las Ruelas y Don Guido de Lavezares. Hice una búsqueda para tratar de
encontrar donde esta mencionado ese enlace y lo único que encontré es un
mensaje de Salvador Cabral que menciona que Bernardino González de Isla,
esposo de Mariana Sandoval, como hijo de Francisco González y Magdalena de
Labesares.

http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/17454?page=3

No entiendo bien el vínculo entre Magdalena de Labesares y Benito de la
Isla y Labesares. Entiendo que Benito de la Isla fue mencionado como criado
de Guido de Labazares en su pase a Indias y por eso creen que fueron
parientes Guido y Benito. Bernardino González de Isla y Mariana Sandoval
fueron bisabuelos maternos maternos de Petrona de Isla la primera esposa de
Nicolás Vallín Sotomayor. Ojalá alguien mas puede aclarar lo que preguntas
y lo que no entendí sobre las personas antes mencionadas. Posiblemente Bill
Figueroa sabe mas.

Gracias por acordar

Comentario

Enrique y Armando,

Guido de Labezares pasó a la Nueva España en 1557 junto con su esposa Inés Alvarez y otras personas que los acompañaban, entre ellas Benito de la Isla, hijo de Bernardino de la Isla y Magdalena de Labezares. Su pase a Indias en 1557 (segundo viaje a México) se puede ver en PARES y dice lo siguiente:

"GUIDO DE LABAZARES [sic por Lavezares], vecino y natural de Sevilla, hijo de Sebastián de Labazares y de Catalina de Chaves, con Inés Alvarez, su mujer, vecina de Sevilla; Francisco de Castro y Pedro de Castro, hermanos, naturales de Córdoba, hijos de Luis Fernández y de Leonor de Castro, a Nueva España. Lleva por criados suyos a Benito de la Isla, natural de Sevilla, hijo de Bernardino de Isla y de Magdalena de Labezares; Juana Bernal, doncella, hija de Juan Castaño y de Anna Bernal, vecinos de Sevilla; Tomás, indio, Christobal, indio y Beatriz, mestiza." (Catálogo de Pasajeros a Indias, Vol III 1539-1559)

Guido de Labezares llegó por primera vez al archipiélago

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Carlos Peredo

Estimado Bill

Que interesantes datos nos compartes sobre Guido de Lavezares que al parecer fue nieto del impresor Genovés del mismo nombre avecindado en Sevilla y que editó "Las siete partidas de Alfonso X" en 1491.

Por la cronología, es muy posible que el intrépido Guido que vino dos veces a México y dos a Filipinas sí haya sido hermano de Magdalena de Labezares la que casó con Bernardino de Isla por 1535 y que fueron padres de Benito de Isla el que llegó a México en 1557 como criado de Guido.

Al respecto encontré un dato que parece estar relacionado con esta pareja y con Guido: Se trata de un Juan de Isla que es enviado desde la Nueva España a las Filipinas en 1570; sospecho que puede ser un hijo de Magdalena y Benito y que su tío Guido lo mandó llamar a ayudarlo.

Hay unos records sobre unos Isla que bien pueden ser hijos de Benito y Magdalena, se trata de Diego de Isla que casó por 1595 con María de Velasco y bautizaron a María de Isla el 24-abr-1599 en Mex; así

Comentario

Carlos Peredo

Corrijo un dato de mi envio anterior, Juan de Isla el que es enviado a las Filipinas en 1570 no es hijo de Benito y Magdalena de Labezares, es más bien probable hermano de Benito e hijo de Bernardino y Magdalena de Labezares.

La confusión es fácil ya que de acuerdo a información del querido Guillermo Tovar de Teresa, Benito-que era hijo de Magdalena de Labezares (I), también casó con una Magdalena de Labezares (II)(seguramente su prima hermana- hija de Guido de Labezares)

Gracias por su paciencia y quedan las interrogantes ......

Carlos A. Peredo

Comentario

Here is a Real Cedula from 23 Nov 1556, giving Guido de Labazares permission to pass to Indias with a "nephew and a doncella." The document is not digitized, but it pretty much establishes that Benito de Isla is the nephew of Guido de Labazares.

From PARES-AGIS
ES.41091.AGI/23.15.2032//INDIFERENTE,1965,L.13,F.234
Real Cédula
1556-11-23 Valladolid
Unidad Documental Simple
Real Cédula a los oficiales de la Casa de la Contratación, para que den licencia a Guido de Labazares, para pasar a Nueva España, con un sobrino y una doncella (extracto).
Descripción elaborada por ARCHIVO GENERAL DE INDIAS
2003-3-24

Manny Diez Hermosillo
http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/jrefugioghermosillo

Comentario

Edgar Olguin Diaz
buenas tardes peredo

me lamo mucho la atencion en el comentario en donde mencionas
que hay un dispensa donde se mencionan la relacion familiar de
Magdalena de Lavezari y María de Isla Moctezuma Ruelas esposa de
Andrés Martín Camacho Sotomayor ?

tienes el link de esta dispensa? o una copia de esta?

te agradezco la atencion prestada

excelente dia
saludos

Comentario

Hola Gary,

Con su permiso, aqui la dispensa para Pedro Rodriguez de Frias y Petrona de Yslas que revela la relacion entre Maria de Yslas y Magdalena Lavazares, pero no es la Maria de Ysla casada con Andres Martin; se trata de una hija bastarda y mestiza que tuvo Benito de Ysla con una desconocida:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-15188-23581-37?cc=1804458&wc…

Saludos,
Manny Diez Hermosillo
http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/jrefugioghermosillo

Comentario

Adrián Márquez Padilla

para abram101:

Aqui te envio mi transcripcion, espero te sea de utilidad.
saludos...

Agosto 1663

Nicolas Vallin y
Victoria de Sotomayor
Casados y Velados

En la villa de Aguas Calientes en Diez y Seis dias del mes de Agosto de mil seiscientos sesenta y tres años parecio ante mi Nicolas Vallin vecino de dicha villa a el que habiendo dado información ante mi de ser hombre libre y soltero, para poder contraer matrimonio con Victoria Sotomayor de la feligresia de el rancho La mina de Sierra de pinos y habiendo precedido todo lo que el santo Concilio del Trento y los tres Canones disponen y no resultando como no resulto impedimento alguno, para poder contraer dicho matrimonio.
Le di licencia para fuese a dicho rancho a conocerlo y al otro dia me presento una certificación del tenor siguiente.
El Licenciado German Lopez del Carpio, Cura Vicario y Juez eclesiástico del Rancho de Minas de Sierra de pinos y su jurisdicción Por su majestad certifico y doy fe como en el

Comentario

It means he was free to marry. If he had promised to marry someone else or
had another restriction against him, such as being in prison, he would have
been free to marry.

Armando
On Sun, Mar 25, 2012 at 12:00 PM, wrote:

>
> I have a question why doesn't mention Nicolas Vallin being a free man was
> he like a slave or was he in prison recently?
>

Microfilm of Escrituras 1691 - 1738

Today, I was looking at the microfilm of “Escrituras 1691 – 1638” Microfilm No. 0169054 at the LDS Family History Center.

Comentarios

Comentario

If you have a digital camera, take it with you and you can take photos of
each page that's of interest to you. The great thing about photographs is
that if you have photo editing software on your computer, you can come home
and edit them for clarity and enlarge or decrease, crop and save only the
sections that are of interest to you. It's a great way of saving a record.
What I have done is take post it's with me and write the film #, and the
pertinent information about the film and put the post it next to the record
and when you photograph the record, you also photograph the post it with
the traceability information on it and you have a method for identifying
the record.

Alicia,
San Jose, Ca.

On Sat, Nov 1, 2014 at 6:26 PM, wrote:

> Today, I was looking at the microfilm of “Escrituras 1691 – 1638”
> Microfilm No. 0169054 at the LDS Family History Center.
>
> I only got through 1/4 of the film or 292 pages. The pages are not
> numbered so I manually kept track on what page I am on

Comentario

This is so very interesting. Thank you for sharing with us.

zacatecano020@hotmail.com wrote:
>Today, I was looking at the microfilm of “Escrituras 1691 – 1638” Microfilm No. 0169054 at the LDS Family History Center.
>
>I only got through 1/4 of the film or 292 pages. The pages are not numbered so I manually kept track on what page I am on so I can quickly get to there if I want to make copies of certain pages.
>
>I got to year 1692 and saw Zacatecas, mention almost all the time. But I was reading a lot on the “conflict” de Juan Ambrosio Martin vs B D(Don?) Nicolas Medrano. A denuncio. It seems like there was some kind of conflict over the minas of “Concepcion” and “Vetagrande.” The pages always started out with “En La Ciudad Zacatecas ante La Justicia” for instance. Other names I read were “Doctor Don Ignacio De Acevedo y Guzman” “Juan Antonio Perez De Banos (Barrios?). A line noted, “Los ricos metals que lluebaban los duenos de la mina Concepcion.” “La Mina Del

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Well I don't recall seeing any "Caldera" so far. I may have seen it and past it buy as I was quickly reading by the pages and slowed down to anything interest. When Zacatecas started showing up, I really slowed down because it is interesting to read what was going on back in the late 1600's. I only got through a 1/4 of the film and have much more to go. I have to wait until the LDS is open for me to go. Since I work during the day, I can go on Wednesday nights or Saturday during the day when the LDS has the hours where I can go. I will pay attention to "Caldera" and notify you if I see anything.

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I wrote down some names, dates and places in my notebook as I was reading through the microfilm of Escrituras. Just out of curiousity in the internet I looked for "1695 Zacatecas" to see what comes up so that I can compare it with what I found in the microfilm. And what came up is "Antonio Miranda De Guzman"

I looked at my notebook and saw that I wrote down:

"Antonio De Miranda Villa y Fran Rocio de esta Iglesia Cathedral Jues Providor y Vicabio Juez de Testimonios, Capellanio y Obras al Obispado de La Nueva Galicia"

That was the year 1695 and then that is when I began reading about "La Hacienda Palomas" of Juchipila.

So in the internet I found a painting of him and this is what he looked like:

http://oi57.tinypic.com/2vwy0l1.jpg

Kind of neat that I can look up in the internet the people I saw in the microfilm and see if there is a painting to see what they looked like

familytreedna is allowing free transfers of ancestry and my23andme dna

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Isabel de Anda Altamirano

Hola,

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Comentario

Andy,

Muchas gracias por la informacion. Voy a revisarla.

Thank you so much for the information. I will check it out.

Saludos desde Seattle

susana

Need help reading a document

I need help reading a document. The handwriting in this document is very difficult to read. Is there someone that could help me?

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Comentario

Hi Anita

Below is a transcription of the marriage record with some edits.

Best Regards
Austin Perez

Blas Esteban Franco y Margarita de Aiala Liberata Diaz de Abrego, mestizos de esta feligresía en San Diego

En el pueblo de San Francisco de Tepatitlan en ocho días del mes de octubre de mil setecientos treinta y seis años, case por palabras de presente y vele in facie ecclesiae a Blas Esteban Franco, mestizo de esta feligresía en el puesto de San Diego, hijo legitimo de Pedro Franco y de Micaela Beserra, difunta, y a Margarita Liberata así mismo mestiza de dicha feligresía en el citado puesto, hija legitima de Augustin de Aiala y de Antonia Diaz de Abrego, difuntos…padrinos Luis Franco y Francisca Gonzales, su esposa

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Anita Rodriguez
Thank you for you help. I believe that Blas Esteban is my 6X great-grandfather. I have the marriage document of my 5X great-grandfather Juan Christobal Franco and it states that his parents were Esteban Franco and Margarita Ramires. Could they be the same people? Could you please transcribe what is written in the margin of this marriage document. It's found in the lower right hand side. Thank you.

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18570-66490-29?cc=1874591&wc…

Comentario

Can't say for sure if they are the same couple. Locating additional baptism records for Blas Esteban's children and marriage records for Juan Cristobal's siblings will help answer whether they are same people.

Below is a transcription of the second margin note which appears to have been added after the marriage record was written.

Salió impedimento de consanguinidad, pero seguida información Vicaría en el que hizo <?> Guadalajara, resulto falso, como conste del despacho que esta en este archivo

Hasta pronto
Austin Perez

Comentario

It translates loosely as "an impediment of consanguinity was discovered, however following the Parrish investigation that was done < ? > Guadalajara, the impediment of consanguinity was determined to be false, as recorded in the dispatch which can be found in this archive"

So, at some time, probably after the marriage, it was discovered that the couple were related by blood (consanguinidad) within the grade (3rd cousins or closer relation) that required a marriage dispensation from the Bishop of Nueva Galicia in Guadalajara. After investigations, which typically consists of testimony of 3 or more witnesses, it was determined that there was no impediment of consanguinity.

I'm not that familiar with the Tepatitlan church records but I would guess that the document of the marriage dispensation is probably in the Informacion Matrimonial records for this time period.

Good luck with your search!
Austin Perez

Moctezuma's daughter

I am very interested in this information.  I have worked on my Femat tree that brought me to Monica Romo de Vivar.  Going through her line I came across some of this information but I became confuse

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Calvillo native son, Appointed to the Cathedral in Aguascalientes. Designado a la catedral en Aguascalientes.

Congratulations ! Padre Casimiro Serna Esqueda, best wishes and prayers.

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Comentario

Ahora que mencionan al Obispo de Aguascalientes, el Sr. José María de la Torre Martín, me gustaría decir que el es originario de Pegueros, una delegación del municipio de Tepatitlán de Morelos, Jalisco.

Saludos.
Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.

_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: as HOT as always
www.hotmailhotness.com.mx

Comentario

Mi hermana me acaba de informar que el obispo Jose Maria De La Torre Martin es pariente y amigo de nuestro tio Panataleon Casillas Alvarez. Mi tio Pantaleone Casillas Alvarez tiene 102 Anos y tiene sabe historias de la familia. Busco los nombres de los padres y abuelos del obispo.
Gracias
R.A.Ricci

Translation Assistance - 1757 Family Drama

On January 28, 1757, Maria Antonia de Carrion (wife of Vicente Gonzalez de Solis) provided testimony - I believe it is in response to the pending marriage of Lugarda Gonzalez de Solis to Joseph Rodrig

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Comentario

Here is the transcription of a couple of sections, using modern spelling:

Image 270
Declaración de María Antonia Carrión, mujer legítima de Vicente González de Solís.
Allá por principio de estos autos, por la media noche, estando yo dormida y en mi propia cama y cuarto, acostadas juntas estaba Lusgarda. González de Solís entre ambas dormidas, y mi puerta cerrada porque así mi dicho esposo la había dejado, y se había ido a Parcaz. Y además de la referida Lusgarda estaban María del Carmen y Joseph González de Solís, y su madre, y Gertrudis de Alarcón. Y estando como dicho todos, entró Joseph Rodríguez y empezó a tentar a los ya dichos. Y quien primero le habló fue Lusgarda Gonzales de Solís diciéndole quién era, y el citado Rodríguez dijo era Pacheco, y que el haber entrado fue en persecución de su legítima --- esposa suya y que se le dio por razón estaba su mujer en el cuarto donde dormía su suegro

Image 271
Declaración de María Silbestra, mujer legítima de Joseph Antonio González de

Dom-05.Oct-2014 Muerte del Padre de Rick Rodriguez, Presidente de la Sociedad de Genealogia e Historia de los Altos de Jalisco

Lupita Gonzalez‎Genealogía e Historia de Los Altos de Jalisco
12 h · Guadalajara · Editado ·

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Comentario

El nombre del Padre de Ricardo era el Señor Jose Rosario Rodriguez Gonzalez, nacido el 06-Sep-1948 en Capilla de Guadalupe, Jalisco y muerto el Dom-05-Oct-2014.

Saludos desde Guadalajara, Jalisco:
Tomás Alejandro Villegas Gómez.

Castanon in Valparaiso, Zac

Barbara my Castanon line came from Valparaiso, Zac to Jerez, Zac in abt 1750 but I haven't found any records for them before that. I do not have the Gertrudis Castanon you ask abt in my records.

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Walking in Two Worlds

I've been reading through some of the wonderful posts in regards to struggling with speaking Spanish and the challenges of living in two cultures , just some thoughts ;

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This.

The discussion reminded me of one of my very favorite scenes in the movie "Selena," where Abraham Quintanilla, the father, is telling Selena and her brother, AB, about being Mexican-American as opposed to Mexican or American:

"We have to know John Wayne AND Pedro Infante. We have to know about Frank Sinatra AND Agustin Lara... We've got to prove to the Mexicans how Mexican we are, and we've got to prove to the Americans how American we are...both at the same time. It's exhausting!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sw5bA8cVF-E

Recently, I saw another clip by Mexican-American comedian, Eddie G., about being "ni de aqui, ni de alla" while actually being from both backgrounds, living both cultures. I loved how he put it: "We're a force to be reckoned with. We don't fit in because we were BORN TO STAND OUT."

Sandra Velez

Comentario

Gandalf3, Ha! You sound just like me. I grew up in the 50s, born in the 30s, mother of native NM stock, Piro tribe, and her people used that term "los del otro lado", Dad from Jerez. I remember no Spanish allowed in schools, and in California when my husband was a teenager, some "chicano" guys beat up a coach who seemed racist towards them, etc. Some cops were bad to them also, pulling them over for no reason. A cousin of mine in NM was told he couldn't use the swimming pool in the motel they were staying in, etc. and the stories go on and on. In order to fit in and progress, you have to immerse yourself in the dominant culture and language, and work to bring about changes, and the Mexicans south of the border don't understand that about us. We have progressed to the point that we can elect an African-American to our highest office, and they have not.

When I visited Mexico City with my husband to see his aunt, she would correct me about how to pronounce "Sears", that it was Seh

Comentario

Great post! It brought tears to my eyes. I was born and raised in a border town in Sonora and later moved a few yards North of the fence and live in a border city in Arizona. This is a wonderful safe heaven for new immigrants like me. More than 95% of the population speaks Spanish, including the post office and city hall. However, I have worked in other areas in Arizona and California and have seen dealt with stereotypes and discrimination for being a woman in management and for speaking English with a Mexican accent.

Other interesting issues related to our own discrimination is embarrassment for being Mexican or having dark skin and New Mexicans. My husband is a pocho from New Mexico. He thinks he is Spanish and his family gets offended if they are called Mexicans. He is more Mexican than me! Ha Ha! His family has been in New Mexico for more than two hundred years and married the natives and Mexicans there. This was before New Mexico became part of the US. He is from Taos, NM, and I

Comentario

Thanks Rosie and great post back at you ! Funny you mention turkey, that was the test if you were raised speaking Old Castillian as we were , or Mexican Spanish with it's Nahatul loan words. If you said pavo for turkey you spoke Castillian, if you said guahalote (sp.) you were a Mexicano, or gocho for pig as opposed to coche, which to us was a car ! but caro was a car (auto) for Chicanos...man, are the memories coming back now. Robert ~

En respuesta a por El Peregrino (no verificado)

Comentario

Hi Robert, I a remember my friends and I joking about this, since they always asked why do you speak like that? I always tell thats how I was taught, for me

pavo=turkey

car=coche

cart=carro

pig=cerdo

peach=melecotón not Durazno

Even in Mexico we all speak differently, I think really it just depends, like English we all learn it differently, I sometimes have a small North CArolina ring when I speak because my kindergarten teacher was from North Carolina. like the words Sentence, I pronounce the "t" differently. Thanks teacher! -Daniel

_________________________________________________________________
Get 5 GB of storage with Windows Live Hotmail.
http://windowslive.com/Explore/Hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_5g…

Comentario

We all know that racial discrimination is a form of ignornance/fear and a means of making oneself feel superior at someone else's expense. Unfortunately, it's not surprising to find it alive and well in every corner of the world--only the target changes.

I am eternally grateful that my parents immigrated and that I was born and raised in San Antonio, yet I have always felt that culturally, I stradle two worlds. I know that they suffered indignities, endured, and overcame misfortunes in order to give us a better life. I therefore owed it to them and myself to take advantage of what this country has to offer, and I have. In the era that I grew up, to no small degree did having English as my first language allow me to accomplish this. In San Antonio there are many, many others in my position that are community leaders, professionals, and have advanced degrees from prestigious universities. We have had Mexican mayors in the past and have just recently elected an other--Julian

Comentario

A esto es a lo que me referia mi comentario de escribir en español, no era para contar historias muy bonitas por cierto, solo de participar en los dos idiomas y mas señalandoles que aqui se llama NUESTROS RANCHOS en español.

Saludos cordiales y felicidades al que comparte su historia y utiliza el español e ingles en su narracion

Antonio Santillan

> To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: rcordovamba@aol.com
> Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 20:40:57 -0700
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Who we are
>
> Great post! It brought tears to my eyes. I was born and raised in a border town in Sonora and later moved a few yards North of the fence and live in a border city in Arizona. This is a wonderful safe heaven for new immigrants like me. More than 95% of the population speaks Spanish, including the post office and city hall. However, I have worked in other areas in Arizona and California and have seen dealt with stereotypes and discrimination for being a woman in management and for

Comentario

Antonio,

A que te refieres? No me gusta tu tono. Tu vas a participar en las dos idiomas!? Yo no puedo participar como tu en espanol. Si tu no puedes participar en ingles, voy a usar un servicio de traduccion como del Google, etc. para leer tus e-mails.

Si, aqui se llama NUESTROS RANCHOS porque nuestros antecedentes tal vez vinieron de ranchos de mexico, pero el webmaster Arturo y el moderator Joseph son estadounidenses y pusieron este site sin pedir ninguna cosa de nosotros, y los primeros participantes aqui somos estadounidense. Unos podemos participar en dos idiomas, otros solamente en ingles o solamente en espanol como tu. Yo creo que puedes escribir en ingles, no? Sera interesante cuantos del grupo hablan solamente una idioma, sea ingles o espanol. Yo so miembro en otras sites de genealogia en mexico donde se habla solamente espanol y no les voy a decir que tienen que escribir en ingles.

Nuestros Ranchos tiene tres nombres para los e-mails: "general" es para "contar

Comentario

Thanks, Emilie. I've taught English to students from all over the world at a local high school for nineteen years. Every year my students from Mexico are irritated by the fact that many of our US students of Mexican descent don't speak Spanish. They actually believe that they can speak Spanish and merely choose not to use it. I try to explain that most of their families have been in the US for generations, and for various unfortunate reasons, have lost the language. They still don't believe it, and respond: "como puede ser, si tienen el nopal en la frente". Alice BB

--- auntyemfaustus@hotmail.com wrote:

From: "Emilie Garcia"
To:
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Who we are
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2009 10:48:43 -0700

Antonio,

A que te refieres? No me gusta tu tono. Tu vas a participar en las dos idiomas!? Yo no puedo participar como tu en espanol. Si tu no puedes participar en ingles, voy a usar un servicio de traduccion como del Google, etc. para leer tus e-mails.

Si

Comentario

A long time ago, I learned that few of us are truly bi-lingual
(grandparents came to US during the early 1900's).. That is....our emotional language
is our first language. For example, I speak Spanish with babies and when I
am loving or embracing someone with my presence. "O, que linda....que
chula...como to de adoro"....and of course anger....(smile).

I observe my husband (born in Mexico) still do his math calculations in
Spanish, even though he came here at 10 years old.

Our second language becomes our academic and social language (for those of
us educated for the majority of our life in the US). How I wish I could
communicate as effectively in Spanish as I do in English.

The fact is that my ancestors had very little education and spoke Spanish
to communicate, but could not read or write. This translates to the
Spanish that I know....it is colloquial, limited to "ranchero" background (and as
a city dweller am often confused by the usage of verbs/nouns).

Comentario

Esperanza,

Would you be related to any of the Luna/Herrera family in Pueblo, Colorado?

----- Original Message -----
From: Latina1955@aol.com
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Wednesday, July 8, 2009 9:25:13 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Who we are

A long time ago, I learned that few of us are truly bi-lingual  
(grandparents came to US during the early 1900's)..  That is....our  emotional language
is our first language. For example, I speak Spanish with  babies and when I
am loving or embracing someone with my presence.  "O, que  linda....que
chula...como to de adoro"....and of course anger....(smile).
 
I observe my husband (born in Mexico) still do his math calculations in  
Spanish, even though he came here at 10 years old.
 
Our second language becomes our academic and social language (for  those of
us educated for the majority of our life in the US).  How I wish I  could
communicate as effectively in Spanish as I do

Comentario

I don't think so but am unsure......I have been able to trace the Herrera
side of the family in Tlaltenango, but am stunted with the Luna side - this
is what I have been able to verify:

Felix Luna married (1851)
Maria de los Angeles Trejo (b) 8/5/1825: Parents: Jose Tomas Trejo(m)
5/16/1827 & Maria Tereza de Jesus Espinoza
1) Atanacio baptized 1855
2) Maria Petra bapt 6/30/1856
3) Margarito Luna bapt 6/12/1853 married (5/24/1876) Regina Herrera
Florensina Miramontes 5/2/1849 (married previously???)
1) Atanacio Luna Trejo bapt: 8/15/1855 m(10/21/1874)
Maria Florencia Corchado bapt:2/25/1858
1) Manuel Luna Herrera b 11/22/1888 d 1/21/1944 m. Norberta Herrera
Ynigues b 1894 d 3/6/1941
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Comentario

MMM. Since we're on Luna subject.
How about Guerrero De Luna? Do you have anything on this one?
Thank advances..

Robert R
P+25

________________________________
From: "Latina1955@aol.com"
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thursday, July 9, 2009 12:13:02 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Who we are

I don't think so but am unsure......I have been able to trace the Herrera 
side of the family in Tlaltenango, but am stunted with the Luna side - this
is  what I have been able to verify:

Felix Luna married (1851)
Maria de los Angeles Trejo (b) 8/5/1825: Parents: Jose Tomas Trejo(m) 
5/16/1827 & Maria Tereza de Jesus Espinoza
1)    Atanacio baptized 1855
2)    Maria Petra bapt 6/30/1856
3)    Margarito Luna bapt 6/12/1853 married (5/24/1876) Regina  Herrera
Florensina Miramontes 5/2/1849 (married  previously???)
1) Atanacio Luna Trejo bapt:  8/15/1855 m(10/21/1874)
Maria Florencia Corchado  bapt:2/25/1858
1)    Manuel Luna Herrera b 11/22/1888 d 1/21/1944 m. Norberta

Comentario

Very well said Esperanza. I think the majority of us who are second to third generation born in the US fall in this profile. From birth to my very early years, when not with my parents, I spent a great deal of time with my maternal grandparents who spoke only Spanish. Because of this I was fluent in Spanish until about age nine. Once entering school much of that fluency was lost as English dominated both social and personal life. My parents were both first generation US citizens and grew up during a time when speaking Spanish resulted in punishment in school, so although they often spoke to each other in Spanish, then spoke to us in English. I was lucky enough to have my grandmother until she died in 1987 at age 93 so I was able to keep up my Spanish, however, once she passed the frequency of the use of Spanish for me became pretty limited. Like you, I too and most of the cousins of my generation, are the "last of the Mohicans" when it comes to
speaking and writing Spanish.

Comentario

Well said, Esperanza!

Emilie
----- Original Message -----
From: Latina1955@aol.com
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Wednesday, July 08, 2009 9:25 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Who we are

A long time ago, I learned that few of us are truly bi-lingual
(grandparents came to US during the early 1900's).. That is....our emotional language
is our first language. For example, I speak Spanish with babies and when I
am loving or embracing someone with my presence. "O, que linda....que
chula...como to de adoro"....and of course anger....(smile).

I observe my husband (born in Mexico) still do his math calculations in
Spanish, even though he came here at 10 years old.

Our second language becomes our academic and social language (for those of
us educated for the majority of our life in the US). How I wish I could
communicate as effectively in Spanish as I do in English.

The fact is that my ancestors had very little

Comentario

Hi Esperanza,

I came across your post I am descended from Calletano de Luna + Barbara Marin Herrera. Are you my long lost cousin?

Harry Mercado

Comentario

Yes, Alice,

I was once told by a red-headed, blue-eyed Mexican that I should speak Spanish because of my "face". Well, I guess I should speak Nahuatl or Tewa and not Spanish, since I have a Native American face and not a Spanish face. I told that guy that by his reasoning he should speak English because he looked like an Anglo. Se nos ve en la cara que somos indijenos, pues debemos hablar Nahuatl en vez de espanol. Ha!

Emilie
----- Original Message -----
From: AliceBB
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Wednesday, July 08, 2009 8:49 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Who we are

Thanks, Emilie. I've taught English to students from all over the world at a local high school for nineteen years. Every year my students from Mexico are irritated by the fact that many of our US students of Mexican descent don't speak Spanish. They actually believe that they can speak Spanish and merely choose not to use it. I try to explain that most of their families have been in

Comentario

My Canales came from Zacatecas, what was the firing squad all about?  bc
--- On Tue, 7/7/09, Emilie Garcia wrote:

From: Emilie Garcia
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Walking in Two Worlds
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Tuesday, July 7, 2009, 1:11 AM

Linda,

My grandfather from Jerez and his brother and brother in law had a choice; stay in Zacatecas and face a firing squad or get on a train to the border in 1913.  None of them ever went back, and they remained in seclusion until the 1940s.  They weren't alone; thousands came over the border, and the US welcomed them, right?

Emilie
Port Orchard, WA
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Erlinda Castanon-Long
  To: general@nuestrosranchos.org ; gandalf3.1@netzero.com
  Sent: Monday, July 06, 2009 5:58 PM
  Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Walking in Two Worlds

  Well said but you did not post your name? Who do we thank for sharing this line of thought that reflects so much on many of us.. I'd forgotten the word Pocho

Comentario

Barbara,

I wish I knew what it was all about for my family. We can read generalized accounts of the battles in Zacatecas, but they don't mention the names of the participants at the lower levels, only the generals, and their aides. I am not even sure what side my male ancestors were on, but whichever side, it was the losing one in that particular battle. Losers in battles get executed, especially officers in order to demoralize their troops.

Somewhere in Mexico there must be records of rosters for each regiment, right down to the lowliest rifleman on foot. Only the general officers and their aides and mounted regiments had horses. The others drove teams of horses pulling supply wagons, or pulled cannons on foot, etc. It would be interesting to find out what classification in the armies my ancestors were part of, what their duties were. My husband fortunately knows which side his grand-father was on--he was a "federal", rode a horse, but he still came over the border to live

Comentario

Hi guys ,

My name is Welester G. Alvarado and I know this retired Lt. Ricardo Palmerin from the Mexican military .

He passed me the military web site that supposedly has records of all the military men dating back quite a bit .

I will contact him and get the site from him again ( because I erased it from my PC )

and forward it to you .

Who knows we could get lucky !

Welester

> Barbara,
>
> I wish I knew what it was all about for my family. We can read generalized accounts of the battles in Zacatecas, but they don't mention the names of the participants at the lower levels, only the generals, and their aides. I am not even sure what side my male ancestors were on, but whichever side, it was the losing one in that particular battle. Losers in battles get executed, especially officers in order to demoralize their troops.
>
> Somewhere in Mexico there must be records of rosters for each regiment, right down to the lowliest rifleman on foot. Only the

Comentario

Well said but you did not post your name? Who do we thank for sharing this line of thought that reflects so much on many of us.. I'd forgotten the word Pocho, another put down..
 
When I was in my paternal ancestral home in Jerez, the locals destinguished between the families who left during the revolution, like mine, and those who stayed through the hard times. The locals who's ancestors stayed felt very proud and sad for those of us who's ancestors left.
 
Linda in B.C.

--- On Mon, 7/6/09, gandalf3.1@netzero.com wrote:

From: gandalf3.1@netzero.com
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Walking in Two Worlds
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Monday, July 6, 2009, 5:19 PM

I've been reading through some of the wonderful posts in regards to struggling with speaking Spanish and the challenges of living in two cultures , just some thoughts ;

I grew up in the U.S. in a small mining town located in southeastern Arizona . When my father's family left the villa in Los Altos , they

Comentario

Linda,

My grandfather from Jerez and his brother and brother in law had a choice; stay in Zacatecas and face a firing squad or get on a train to the border in 1913. None of them ever went back, and they remained in seclusion until the 1940s. They weren't alone; thousands came over the border, and the US welcomed them, right?

Emilie
Port Orchard, WA
----- Original Message -----
From: Erlinda Castanon-Long
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org ; gandalf3.1@netzero.com
Sent: Monday, July 06, 2009 5:58 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Walking in Two Worlds

Well said but you did not post your name? Who do we thank for sharing this line of thought that reflects so much on many of us.. I'd forgotten the word Pocho, another put down..

When I was in my paternal ancestral home in Jerez, the locals destinguished between the families who left during the revolution, like mine, and those who stayed through the hard times. The locals who's ancestors stayed felt very proud and sad

LINAJE MOCTEZUMA

HOLA AMIGOS Y AMIGAS

INTERESADOS EN ESTA INVESTIGACION DE LOS PADRES DE PETRONILA DE MOCTEZUMA

Comentarios

Comentario

HOLA EDGAR

MUCHAS GRACIAS por los enlaces en tu post. No tenía el matrimonio de Cristóbal Sotelo y Juana Heredia. Espero con interés a leerlo! Estoy leyendo bautismos de Sagar. Metro. de la Ciudad de México al fin de los 1500s. Si encuentro algo de interés de linaje Moctezuma, yo sin duda compartirlo.

Sorry for my primitive Spanish!

Now in English...

THANK YOU VERY MUCH for the links in your post. I did not have the one for the marriage of Cristobal Sotelo and Juana Heredia. I look forward to (trying!) to read it. We know that Diego Sotelo married Maria Manuel de Portugal by 1559, so Cristobal must have been at least 35 years old when he married Juana, and they married in Mexico City. Perhaps this points to Petronila getting married in Mexico City as well??? I am browsing though baptisms in Sagr. Metro. for Mexico City in the late 1500s, on the offchance that she is mentioned as padrina for someone. If I find anything of interest for the topic of linaje Moctezuma, I will certainly

Arquelles Surname of Zacatecas?

Hi! I never realized this. But my woman partner is from the city of Zacatecas.

Comentarios

Comentario

Los Arguelles es una familia cuya nobleza e hidalguia fue probada ante las debidas autoridades inumerables veces. Familias como estas conocian sus origenes, y no tenian miedo de mostrarlo ante el publico. Las fechadas en las casas, los blasones, etc. Familia con origen muy antigua en Asturias desde el siglo XIV. Podemos encontrar los varios pleitos de hidalguia en la Chancelleria de Valladolid donde presentan documentos de nobleza. Ahora, las lineas mejicanas. Este documento que mencionas dice que Don Fernando de Arguelles era del "Principado de Asturias," sabemos que es jurisdicion nobiliaria que le tradicionalmente le pertenece al heredero de la corona castellana, antes era D. Felipe de Borbon y Grecia, Principe de Asturias, Viana y Gerona, ahora es Felipe VI.

Hubo bastante Arguelles en todo Mejico durante el virreinato, la mayoria de los casos son comerciantes u oficiales de gobierno, algo en comun.

Daniel Mendez de Torres Camino

Comentario

"Don Fernando Arquelles Natural Del Prinicipado De Asturias", means he was
from Asturias in Spain
"de estado soltero" single
"de edad de beinte (sic) anos" 20 years
"no se le administraron los santos sacramentos por haber muerto
violentamente de una caída que le dio un caballo" he felt from a horse and
died :(

Julieta

-----Message d'origine-----
De : Research [mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] De la part
de zacatecano020@hotmail.com
Envoyé : domingo, 19 de octubre de 2014 01:01 a.m.
À : research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Objet : [Nuestros Ranchos] Arquelles Surname of Zacatecas?

Hi! I never realized this. But my woman partner is from the city of
Zacatecas. Her family have a friend named "Tomas Arguelles" who resides in
the City of Zacatecas but he is from "Monte Escobedo" near Mezquitic,
Jalisco

I remember people in nuestros ranchos telling me about the Arquelles Family
of Zacatecas after I had posted that I found a defunto record of Don
Fernando Arquelles

Sanchez Banales y Alcaras and Familia Tagle and Familia Castellanos y Mendoza

My Dearest Nuestro Ranchos Familia,
I am desperate for guidance; does anyone know about these families in
Mexico during the colonial times.

Comentarios

Comentario

Elizabeth,

I have Sanchez-Banales in my archives, they are a family that appears to be in the Avalos-Guadalajara region during the XVII century. The oldest I have is about 1660, Don Alonso Sanchez Banales and his wife, Da. Margarita Ortiz de Zarate y Velasco--she was from Colima. They married in or nearby Sayula, where they established their family of numerous children. I descend from their daughter Micaela Sanchez Banales who had Francisca Xaviera Sanchez Banales--iligitimate child--her second great grandaughter married Lic. Luis de Hijar, the Magistrate of Guadalajara, my sixth great grandfather. I have only studied these lines a bit, but I could still do more research, from this line I know they are related to Enriquez Topete, the Sanchez de Aldana, Canedo and the Farchet.

Have you been able to locate Francisca Sanchez Banales? I still have her unlinked, she married into the Mayorazgo de Porres Baranda, this would be an important link to discover.

Could you share more on Juan

FW: The DNA of Christophe​r Columbus

From: Angel R.

Comentarios

Comentario

I would love to attend but unfortunately I am unable to make it in time. Can the lecture be taken online? If not, will it be offered in the future? Will it be offered in the Los Angeles area. If none of these are an option, is there a way for me to attain documents on this information.
I have done much research on his genealogy and how he is related to a principal figure in my research into one of my family lines. My research fills a couple of gaps in the latest published works on his true genealogy. This research of mine also includes how his wife's family is related to our Pantoja line in Mexico.
R.A.Ricci