Hola compañeros, no se si recuerden que hace algún tiempo aquí en Nuestros Ranchos comenté que Juan Vázquez el esposo de Elvira Gil de Lara también se hacía llamar Juan Vázquez Perea; y les
--- On Tue, 7/27/10, Christopher Barrios de Leon wrote:
> From: Christopher Barrios de Leon
> Subject: To post
> To: general@nuestrosranchos.co
Hola compañeros, ¿Alguien de ustedes me puede ayudar a encontrar los padres de la siguiente pareja?
Se trata de Bernardino de Estrada Bocanegra y María de Valderrama, padres de mi ancestr
Estimado Jorge Luis,
Yo también desciendo del connubio entre Joseph de Estrada Bocanegra y María González de Híjar. Ellos casaron el día lunes, 9 de diciembre de 1715, en la Parroquia de San Francisco de Asís, Pueblo de Tepatitlán, Obispado de Guadalajara, Reino de la Nueva Galicia. Después fueron velados el día lunes, 10 de febrero de 1716, en la misma feligresía. En esta última fecha fue dictada la partida matrimonial en el archivo. El documento literalmente dice lo siguiente:
“Joseph de Estrada y María Gon.s de Híjar, Esp.s de este Pu.o ----- En el Pu.o de S.n Fran.co de Tecp.n a dies días del Mes de febrero de Mil setecientos y dies y seis a.s Velé infacie Ecclesie a Joseph de Estrada Vocanegra, Español Vez.o desta felig.a, hijo natural de D.n Domingo de Estrada Vocanegra y de Magd.na Rodrígues; y a María Gon.s de Híjar, asi misma Española, hija leg.ma de Salbador Gons y de Mariana Rodríg.s de Híjar a q.nes casé el día nuebe de Diz.e del año próximo pasado de setecientos y
El conquistador Francisco de Estrada, aunque nació en Sevilla era de origen asturiano, fue hijo de Juan Sánchez de Estrada, grumete de Cristóbal Colón; en México fue Encomendero de Acatitlán y Mechinango, en la Nueva Galicia. Tuvo un hijo nacido en México que fue Regidor en la capital y se llamó Andrés de Estrada, citado por O´Gorman en su "Catálogo de pobladores..., numero 413. Fue Corregidor de Mexicaltzingo.
Don Andrés de Estrada casó en la ciudad de México con Antonia de Nava (Archivo de la Santa Veracruz, Libro Primero de bautismos, f. 14 vta). Tuvieron un hijo, Bernardino, y una hija, casada con Luis Osorio y tuvieron descendencia (Ver: Dorantes de Carranza, Sumaria Relación...México, 1902, p. 183). Bernardino de Estrada pudo casar con alguna parienta de los Delgadillo (Verdugo Bocanegra)acaso Mejía Bocanegra.
-----Mensaje original-----
De: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org [mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] En nombre de PacoHernandez73@msn.com
Steven no se como agradecer tan grande ayuda con los Estrada Bocanegra, nos has dado grandes datos acerca de esta familia. Son datos muy interesantes, los cuales nos pueden dar mas pistas para seguir la investigación de nuestra familia.
Sólo nos queda investigar un poco mas los archivos de Lagos y Teocaltiche para buscar los ancestros de María de Valderrama; que por lo que veo tenemos varios ancestros en común, ya que yo también desciendo de Ana María Estrada González, mujer de Juan Jerónimo Cortés Contreras. A continuación incluyo mi línea de Estrada Bocanegra:
1.- Bernardino Estrada y Beatriz de Nava Bocanegra.
2.- Andrés Estrada Bocanegra y Luisa Flores Rubín.
3.- Bernardino Estrada Bocanegra y María de Valderrama.
4.- Domingo Estrada Bocanegra y Magdalena Rodríguez.
5.- José Estrada Bocanegra (hn) y María González de Híjar.
6.- Ana María Estrada González y Juan Jerónimo Cortés Contreras.
7.- María Margarita Cortés Estrada y José Gregorio Hernández Gamiño.
8.- José
Ya que estamos hablando sobre los Estrada:
Tengo unos que no he podido conectar:
Hiplito de Estrada nacio hacia 1650 en Zacatecas caso a Leonor de Villagran y Ulloa (desciendente de Lope Ruiz de Esparza.)
Nicolas de Estrada quien era de Ocotlan caso a Maria Cabrera ca. 1700
Hubo otro Andres de Estrada Bocanegra quein caso Catarina Efigenai Fernandez de Navarrete
el 25 de agosto de 1721 en Guadalajara.
Felipe de Estrada Bocanegra quien caso Francisca de Medrano (probablmente Fores de Medrano) en Teocaltiche ca. 1675
Josepha de Estrada quien caso Diego Munoz de la Barba (Rubio) el 19 de marzo de 1658 en Lgos
Onofre de Soto caso a Cayetana de Estrada y Ruvalcaba ca. 1700 en Teocaltiche
Daniel Mendez de Camino y Garcia de Leon
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail has tools for the New Busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox.
http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL…
Daniel, no tengo datos de esos Estrada, mas como tú, tengo muchos otros ancestros Estrada que no les he podido seguir la línea.
1.- Diego de Estrada (1660 aprox.) casó en 20 de octubre de 1692 en Tepatitlán con Antonia Gómez de Espejo.
2.- Pedro de Estrada Balbín (1580 aprox.) marido de María Aguilar, vecinos de Guadalajara o Michoacán.
3.- Micaela de Estrada (1700 aprox.) mujer de Manuel de Esqueda, vecinos de Teocaltiche.
4.- Juana de Estrada (1670 aprox.) mujer de Nicolás Álvarez de la Cruz, vecinos de Ayo el Chico.
5.- Juana Manuela Estrada (1750 aprox.) mujer de Juan Bautista Macías, vecinos de Tepatitlán.
Cualquier ayuda es bienvenida y agradecida.
L.C.P. Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.
Tepatitlán de Morelos, Jalisco, México.
Tel.: 3781095311
www.facebook.com/jorgeluis.ramirezgomez
_________________________________________________________________
¿Qué signigica Messenger para ti?
www.vivirmessenger.com
Yo tambien vengo de estos mismos Esqueda de Teocaltiche yAguascalientes varias veces.
Tambien desciendo de Nicolas Alvarez de la Cruz, parece que el tuvo una hermana, que
caso con Hernandez Gamino, esto podia ser la pista. de mis Esqueda se que viene
de esta familia pero vengo de Joseph de Esqueda, y pued hay 3 Joseph Esqueda
en Teocaltiche al mismo tiempo, por que necesitamos nombrar un hijo Joseph por que
no otro nombre que no sea muy comun, ja ja. MAs investigacion.
Daniel Mendez de Camino y Garcia de Leon
> From: georgio_2386@hotmail.com
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 11:52:23 -0500
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Estrada Bocanegra
>
>
> Daniel, no tengo datos de esos Estrada, mas como tú, tengo muchos otros ancestros Estrada que no les he podido seguir la línea.
>
>
>
> 1.- Diego de Estrada (1660 aprox.) casó en 20 de octubre de 1692 en Tepatitlán con Antonia Gómez de Espejo.
>
> 2.- Pedro de Estrada Balbín (1580 aprox.) marido
Bueno pues, ni modo. ¡Qué lástima que no me hayas podido ayudar con las fechas de nacimiento y bautizo de los hijos de Joseph de Estrada Bocanegra y de María González de Híjar! Pero sí parece que tenemos muchas líneas en común...Yo también desciendo de Joseph Gregorio Hernández Gamiño y María Margarita Cortés, pero a través de su hijo Joseph Adauto, bautizado en Tepa el 27 de octubre de 1782. José Adauto Hernández Gamiño luego se casó con María Margarita Arias Maldonado y Gutiérrez Galindo en Tepa el 17 de noviembre de 1803.
Y ya que estamos en el tema de los Estrada Bocanegra…
¿Alguien sabe algo más sobre esta primera generación de Estradas? Sospecho que fueron Estrada Bocanegra, pero no tengo ningún documento que lo comprueba. Vivieron en Teocaltiche, y por eso presenta problemas. Esta rama de Estrada es el uno de mis principales apellidos, ya que me viene en séptimo lugar.
Esta es la descendencia directa hasta Don Julio González Estrada, famoso tequilero y elaborador del
wOW ni puedes imaginarte, yo tenia todos estos sospechos en mi cabeza
y en mis archivos! El Andres que caso en Pinos, los del Guadalajara,
Aguascalientes. Tenia todo esto pero no podia conectarlo. Gracias Steven.
Daniel Mendez de Camino y Garcia de Leon
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: PacoHernandez73@msn.com
> Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 01:39:13 -0700
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Estrada Bocanegra
>
> Estimado Jorge Luis,
>
> Yo también desciendo del connubio entre Joseph de Estrada Bocanegra y María González de Híjar. Ellos casaron el día lunes, 9 de diciembre de 1715, en la Parroquia de San Francisco de Asís, Pueblo de Tepatitlán, Obispado de Guadalajara, Reino de la Nueva Galicia. Después fueron velados el día lunes, 10 de febrero de 1716, en la misma feligresía. En esta última fecha fue dictada la partida matrimonial en el archivo. El documento literalmente dice lo siguiente:
>
> “Joseph de Estrada y María Gon.s de Híjar, Esp.s de este Pu.o ----- En
Hola, esto es muy intresante, no sabes mas de los Flores Rubin o de los
Alvarez de Trujillo. Estuve pensando que los Flores Rubin vienen
de los Flores de la Torre, que se ha escrito en Retonos.
Daniel Mendez de Camino y Garcia de Leon
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: PacoHernandez73@msn.com
> Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 01:39:13 -0700
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Estrada Bocanegra
>
> Estimado Jorge Luis,
>
> Yo también desciendo del connubio entre Joseph de Estrada Bocanegra y María González de Híjar. Ellos casaron el día lunes, 9 de diciembre de 1715, en la Parroquia de San Francisco de Asís, Pueblo de Tepatitlán, Obispado de Guadalajara, Reino de la Nueva Galicia. Después fueron velados el día lunes, 10 de febrero de 1716, en la misma feligresía. En esta última fecha fue dictada la partida matrimonial en el archivo. El documento literalmente dice lo siguiente:
>
> “Joseph de Estrada y María Gon.s de Híjar, Esp.s de este Pu.o ----- En el Pu.o de S.n Fran.co
Hola Jorge, pues no se, si lo he estudiado
de los ESTRADA BOCANEGRA, pero
pienso que el apellido Estrada Bocanegra
empezo con Andres de Estrada Bocanegra,
pero mas que lo estudio, pienso que hay una
combinacion de apellidos o sea queien
algun Estrada caso a un Bocanegra. No pienso
que Andres quien caso a Luisa Flores Ruibin
es el patriarca. Sobre la fecha de tu antepasado
1661, debe ser un sobrino de algunos de ellos,
pero quien sabe, mas busqueda se necesita
hacer. Estas seguro que estos son Estrada Bocanegra?
Lo de Nava es algo de interes tambien.
Daniel Mendez de Camino y Garcia de Leon
> From: georgio_2386@hotmail.com
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 11:19:26 -0500
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Bernardino Estrada Bocanegra. Lagos de Moreno. 1660 aprox.
>
>
> Hola compañeros, ¿Alguien de ustedes me puede ayudar a encontrar los padres de la siguiente pareja?
>
>
>
> Se trata de Bernardino de Estrada Bocanegra y María de Valderrama
Si Daniel, si son Estrada Bocanegra. Mira, yo desciendo de José de Estrada Bocanegra, quien casó en Tepatitlán con María González de Híjar el 10 de febrero de 1716 y aparece como Estrada Bocaengra, hijo natural de Domingo de Estrada Bocanegra y María Magdalena Rodríguez.
Domingo Estrada Bocanegra se casa en 1730 en Ameca con Úrsula Muñoz de Hermosillo en donde se dispensan el 26 de febrero de 1730 porque Úrsula Muñoz de Hermosillo es nieta de Magdalena Rodríguez con quien Domingo Estrada Bocanegra tuvo fuera de matrimonio a mi ancestro José Estrada Bocanegra.
En la dicha dispensa de matrimonio menciona que Domingo es hijo legítimo de Bernardino de Estrada Bocanegra y María Valderrama.
L.C.P. Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.
Tepatitlán de Morelos, Jalisco, México.
Tel.: 3781095311
www.facebook.com/jorgeluis.ramirezgomez
> From: mendezdelcamino@live.com
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 09:40:27 -0700
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Bernardino Estrada
Oh okay, pues solo he visto un solo Bernardino de Estrada Bocanegra....
no se como te puedo ayudar, es posible que caso dos veces?
Daniel Mendez de Camino y Garcia de Leon
> From: georgio_2386@hotmail.com
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 11:49:32 -0500
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Bernardino Estrada Bocanegra. Lagos de Moreno. 1660 aprox.
>
>
> Si Daniel, si son Estrada Bocanegra. Mira, yo desciendo de José de Estrada Bocanegra, quien casó en Tepatitlán con María González de Híjar el 10 de febrero de 1716 y aparece como Estrada Bocaengra, hijo natural de Domingo de Estrada Bocanegra y María Magdalena Rodríguez.
>
>
>
> Domingo Estrada Bocanegra se casa en 1730 en Ameca con Úrsula Muñoz de Hermosillo en donde se dispensan el 26 de febrero de 1730 porque Úrsula Muñoz de Hermosillo es nieta de Magdalena Rodríguez con quien Domingo Estrada Bocanegra tuvo fuera de matrimonio a mi ancestro José Estrada Bocanegra.
>
>
>
> En la dicha dispensa
No lo se aún, pero puede que si haya casado dos veces, pero entonces de donde salió lo de Estrada y Nava.
L.C.P. Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.
Tepatitlán de Morelos, Jalisco, México.
Tel.: 3781095311
www.facebook.com/jorgeluis.ramirezgomez
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: as HOT as always
www.hotmailhotness.com.mx
Pues si es verdad, pues solo tenemos hasta Andres de Estrada Bocanegra que nace
hacia 1600. No sabemos si tuvo antepasados que tuvieron Nava? Tengo sospecho
de quien son los padres de este Andres, ya que si son de Guadalajara seguramente,
pero necesita comprobarlo
Daniel Mendez de Camino y Garcia de Leon
> From: georgio_2386@hotmail.com
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 11:55:55 -0500
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Bernardino Estrada Bocanegra. Lagos de Moreno. 1660 aprox.
>
>
> No lo se aún, pero puede que si haya casado dos veces, pero entonces de donde salió lo de Estrada y Nava.
>
> L.C.P. Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.
> Tepatitlán de Morelos, Jalisco, México.
> Tel.: 3781095311
> www.facebook.com/jorgeluis.ramirezgomez
>
>
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Hotmail: as HOT as always
> www.hotmailhotness.com.mx
I was successful finding Aguascalientes image viewing and found Juan Tiscareno dob Jan 21, 1669 and are now looking for Marriage to Francisca Martin del Campo on April 14, 1692 per Jaime Holcombe. His findings had this info on a separate file. I have been looking and the 1692 marriage records are out of order by date and may have other records that confuse me. I cannot find a typical marriage record. Does anyone have this ancestor and found the actual marriage image?
Thanks
Miguel Gutierrez
Need to check my notes but this marriage might not even be in Aguascalientes.
Juan Tiscareno, espanol hijo lexitimo de Capt. Juan de Tiscareno y Isabel Romo
con Francisca Martin del cAmpo, espanola e hija lexitima de Capt. Lazaro Martin
y Catarina Ramirez de Hermosillo, just a quick note.
Daniel Mendez de Camino y Garcia de Leon
> From: miggychino@msn.com
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 10:47:48 -0700
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] anyone had success on Juan Tiscareno married April 14, 1692 Aguascalientes finding certificate on pilot site
>
> I was successful finding Aguascalientes image viewing and found Juan Tiscareno dob Jan 21, 1669 and are now looking for Marriage to Francisca Martin del Campo on April 14, 1692 per Jaime Holcombe. His findings had this info on a separate file. I have been looking and the 1692 marriage records are out of order by date and may have other records that confuse me. I cannot find a typical marriage record. Does
Miggy,
I had the source info for this marriage as IGI Fim #0299823, Libro 3o, p.
18.
On the pilot site (which, by the way, I had no idea contained images! I've
been out of the loop for a while....) it can be found by following this
string:
Mexican Catholic Church Records, Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, Sagrario,
Matrimonios 1663-1702
then enter image *156 *on the selector
Let me know if you find it...I may not be giving clear directions.
Regards,
Connie Dominguez
El Paso, TX
On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 12:12 PM, Daniel Mendez de Camino y Garcia de Leon
mendezdelcamino@live.com> wrote:
>
> Need to check my notes but this marriage might not even be in
> Aguascalientes.
>
> Juan Tiscareno, espanol hijo lexitimo de Capt. Juan de Tiscareno y Isabel
> Romo
>
> con Francisca Martin del cAmpo, espanola e hija lexitima de Capt. Lazaro
> Martin
>
> y Catarina Ramirez de Hermosillo, just a quick note.
>
>
>
> Daniel Mendez de Camino y Garcia de Leon
>
>
>
>
> > From: miggychino@msn.com
> >
Success, I found the birth and the Marriage certificates of Juan Tiscareño with Francisca Martin del Campo as previously stated April 14, 1692 in Aguascalientes validating Jaime Holcombes contribution to LDS its page 340 on 1692 marriages in Aguascalients in the pilot images.
I already had the parents and grandparents but im backtracking prinying the proof since I was unable to order the film.
I hope this help others
----- Original Message -----
From: Daniel Mendez de Camino y Garcia de Leon
To: Patty Hoyos
Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 11:12 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] anyone had success on Juan Tiscarenomarried April 14,1692 Aguascalientes finding certificate on pilot site
Need to check my notes but this marriage might not even be in Aguascalientes.
Juan Tiscareno, espanol hijo lexitimo de Capt. Juan de Tiscareno y Isabel Romo
con Francisca Martin del cAmpo, espanola e hija lexitima de Capt. Lazaro Martin
y Catarina Ramirez de Hermosillo, just a
I have verified a lot of Holcombe's work, most of it is reliable,
there will be some confusion or minor errors here and there, but
most of the time its on target!
Daniel Mendez de Camino y Garcia de Leon
> From: miggychino@msn.com
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 21:29:31 -0700
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] anyone had success on Juan Tiscarenomarried
>
> Success, I found the birth and the Marriage certificates of Juan Tiscareño with Francisca Martin del Campo as previously stated April 14, 1692 in Aguascalientes validating Jaime Holcombes contribution to LDS its page 340 on 1692 marriages in Aguascalients in the pilot images.
> I already had the parents and grandparents but im backtracking prinying the proof since I was unable to order the film.
> I hope this help others
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Daniel Mendez de Camino y Garcia de Leon
> To: Patty Hoyos
> Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 11:12 AM
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos]
Hola Bill,
José Luis Ramírez ha iniciado un tema muy interesante con sus preguntas y
sus datos acerca de los Estrada Bocanegra en Lagos, vale la pena investigar
y discutir el asunto. Casualmente, ayer comentamos usted y yo, acerca de los
Mexía e Iñiguez en Nochistlán y el matrimonio entre ellos, siendo que Marcos
Mexía había casado con Inés de Estrada,cuyos padres y ascendientes fueron
vecinos de Aguascalientes y Lagos.
He estado reflexionando algo acerca de esas familias de Nochistlán y
Aguascalientes: los Mexía, que pueden ser Mexía de Bocanegra y los Estrada
(por lo de Inés de Estrada) también pueden ser Estrada Bocanegra, como aquel
Bernardino de Estrada Bocanegra, de Lagos, casado con Maria de Valderrama
hacia 1649 y que menciona José Luis Ramírez. ¿Le sugiere algo lo de
Bocanegra, como un común denominador entre ambas familias?
Los Mexía de Bocanegra fueron importantes personajes en Ciudad de México y
Michoacán en los siglos XVI y XVII. Entre ellos aquel que le decían "el
He estudiado los Estrada Bocanegra ya por casi 3 anos, y tengo pistas,
a quien son los fundadores de este gran apellido, obviamente fue
componido en Mexico, no es de Espana. Hay un Juan de Estrada
casado en la Ciudad de Mexico con Juana Perez de Bocanegra.
Los Bocanegras de Mexico vienen de los PErez de Bocanegra
quien tambien usan apellidos como Pacheco, Cordoba, Chavez etc.
Tambien un miembro de esta familia tuvo exito en obtener titulo
nobilario, MAruqes de Villamayor, una rama se fue a Nuevo Mexico
con Vasquez Corondo, solo son pistas no hay comprobacion todavia.
MAs que busco mas encuentro. Los Estrada Bocanegra pues
Andres de Estrada Bocanegra y Luisa Flores Rubin o Rubi
eran vecinos en Guadalajara donde bautizaron a lo menos
tres hijos, Andres, Bernardino y Pedro de Estrada y Bocanegra.
Dudo que Pedro era de Guadalajara, Luisa era de Juchipila o
Teocaltiche. Ya que viene de los Flores de la Torre, pero si
llevaron a varios meimbros de los Flores a bautizarse en
Hola Bill,
José Luis Ramírez ha iniciado un tema muy interesante con sus preguntas y
sus datos acerca de los Estrada Bocanegra en Lagos, vale la pena investigar
y discutir el asunto. Casualmente, ayer comentamos usted y yo, acerca de los
Mexía e Iñiguez en Nochistlán y el matrimonio entre ellos, siendo que Marcos
Mexía había casado con Inés de Estrada,cuyos padres y ascendientes fueron
vecinos de Aguascalientes y Lagos.
He estado reflexionando algo acerca de esas familias de Nochistlán y
Aguascalientes: los Mexía, que pueden ser Mexía de Bocanegra y los Estrada
(por lo de Inés de Estrada) también pueden ser Estrada Bocanegra, como aquel
Bernardino de Estrada Bocanegra, de Lagos, casado con Maria de Valderrama
hacia 1649 y que menciona José Luis Ramírez. ¿Le sugiere algo lo de
Bocanegra, como un común denominador entre ambas familias?
Los Mexía de Bocanegra fueron importantes personajes en Ciudad de México y
Michoacán en los siglos XVI y XVII. Entre ellos aquel que le decían "el
En realidad yo no se mucho sobre los Mejía de Nochistlán, pero en el libro de José Luis Vázquez y Rodríguez de Frías en el capítulo 30 habla del uso indistinto de los apellidos Mejía, Estrada, Medina, Íñiguez y Nungaray en dicha familia.
No se si dichos apellidos pueden aportar pistas para saber un poco mas acerca de Lorenzo Mejía e Inés de Estrada.
L.C.P. Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.
Tepatitlán de Morelos, Jalisco, México.
Tel.: 3781095311
www.facebook.com/jorgeluis.ramirezgomez
_________________________________________________________________
¿Qué signigica Messenger para ti?
www.vivirmessenger.com
Hello all,
I am looking for the parents of my ggggrandmother, Urzina Hernandez. She was probably born in the 1830's or 1840's as she is the second wife of Cayetano Borjon who was born in abt 1825.
Christopher,
What area or region are you researching? The more precise information you
provide, will lead to the most responses from the group. Give as much detail as
possible.
Alicia
San Jose, Calif
________________________________
From: Christopher Barrios de Leon
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Tue, July 27, 2010 4:16:02 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] To post
Hello all,
I am looking for the parents of my ggggrandmother, Urzina Hernandez. She was
probably born in the 1830's or 1840's as she is the second wife of Cayetano
Borjon who was born in abt 1825. I am related to the following families from
this area: Borjons, Rincons, de Leons, Guererros, Ricos, Montellanos,
Betancourts, Arias',Mesas,Lunas, Garcias, Mergils, Buenos, Magallanes',Amaros,
Gonzalez',Hernandez',Carrillos, Laras, Villavencencios, Amayas, Santos',
Roldans, and last but not least Barrios'. Thank you for your interest.
Christopher Barrios de Leon
You did not mentioned what place this takes place or where these individuals were from,
this is super important to get the best help. Thanks.
Daniel Mendez de Camino y Garcia de Leon
> Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 16:16:02 -0700
> From: mound_oxley@yahoo.com
> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] To post
>
> Hello all,
>
> I am looking for the parents of my ggggrandmother, Urzina Hernandez. She was probably born in the 1830's or 1840's as she is the second wife of Cayetano Borjon who was born in abt 1825. I am related to the following families from this area: Borjons, Rincons, de Leons, Guererros, Ricos, Montellanos, Betancourts, Arias',Mesas,Lunas, Garcias, Mergils, Buenos, Magallanes',Amaros, Gonzalez',Hernandez',Carrillos, Laras, Villavencencios, Amayas, Santos', Roldans, and last but not least Barrios'. Thank you for your interest.
>
> Christopher Barrios de Leon
>
>
>
el "ditto" !
Jose Carlos de Leon
> From: mendezdelcamino@live.com
> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 16:52:51 -0700
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] To post
_________________________________________________________________
The New Busy think 9 to 5 is a cute idea. Combine multiple calendars with Hotmail.
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Hello,
Estimado Guillermo,
Gracias guillermo por corregirme.
Voy a tratar de no contestar con mi telefono las preguntas hasta que estoy en casa con toda la informacion.
Por errores de pasar mal informacion se hace el estudio de genealogia mas deficil.
Pero si me sirvio este error por que me das los padres y abuelos que yo creo que no los tengo en mis papeles.
Mil gracias otra vez
Ricardo
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
I forgot to add that francisco Gregorio Hurtado Gomez de Mendoza was married to Ma. Antonia on 10Feb1755 in Jalos. He is the son of Ascencio (Gregorio)Gomez Hurtado de M and Leonor Franco y Paredes.
The gregorio is in parenthesis because he was (?) Mistakenly identified as another name in a record, in this case Gregorio, or it is an aka that I am not sure about yet. The Ascencio is Correct. Ma. Antonia de los Dolores (bap.27Apr1734) is the dAughter of Luis Martin del campo and petronila aka petra Gomez De Anda (Aka2) Petronila Gomez H. De Mendoza. Luis and Petronila were married 4Jun1731 in Jalos Film # 279295.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
I too ran into the Gregorio problem, in my records I decided it would be best just to add
him as Joseph Gregorio Patricio Asencio Gomez de Mendoza
Daniel Mendez de Camino y Garcia de Leon
Candido De Aguayo and Maria Gomez De Mendoza (daughter of Francisco Gregorio Gomez De Mendoza and Maria Antonia Martin del Campo) born on 1775. Ygnacio Gomez De Mendoza is a brother to her, not father.
Thanks, Jaime Gonzalez
Hi All, Im looking for the parents of Ignacio Gomez de Mendoza and Felipa Catarina de Aceves,
they should have married ca. 1775 in Tepatitlan de Morelos, Jalisco, I know Ignacio was from
Hi I'm also researching the "Gomez de Mendoza". I'm not too good at this, but have recently made some progress on my ancestors and wow! I didn't know that my father's ancestors surname was actually "Gomez de Mendoza" I followed the chain of grandfather's until the 5ggrandfather (Fco. Gregorio Gomez de Mendoza Franco who married Ma. Antonia Martin del Campo. They were married in 1755 in Jalos)
I found the Gomez to be "Gomez de Mendoza" and the "martinez" are shown as "Martin del Campo" or just "Martin" . Do you know if the names were shorten as time went by? How can it be verified that it's the same family? I have Gomez,Ximenez, Franco, Velez, Gonzalez and Ramirez on my father's side.
If anyone has any information on how to verify these changes in names, please post.
Thanks,
Gomez-Villalobos
The gomez hurtado de Mendoza from los altos de jalisco descend from Diego Gomez and Catalina Hurtado de Mendoza. There were different Martin and Martinez. There is a Martin del campo family that most have shortened to Martin and some to martinez. There is. A Martin de Sotomayor that was also shortened to different variations.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: dougandmerci@verizon.net
Sender: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 12:37:09
To:
Reply-To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Gomez de Mendoza
Hi I'm also researching the "Gomez de Mendoza". I'm not too good at this, but have recently made some progress on my ancestors and wow! I didn't know that my father's ancestors surname was actually "Gomez de Mendoza" I followed the chain of grandfather's until the 5ggrandfather (Fco. Gregorio Gomez de Mendoza Franco who married Ma. Antonia Martin del Campo. They were married in 1755 in
This is very true I have relatives who are Martinez but were originally MArtin del Campo in the 1800s prob early 1800s.
About Sotomayor, there are two main branches Martinez de Sotomayor and Martin de Sotomayor there are also
Martin Camacho, also related, some have shortened to Sotomayor
Daniel Mendez de Camino y Garcia de Leon
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> From: mygenes2000@yahoo.com
> Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 22:47:37 +0000
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Gomez de Mendoza
>
> The gomez hurtado de Mendoza from los altos de jalisco descend from Diego Gomez and Catalina Hurtado de Mendoza. There were different Martin and Martinez. There is a Martin del campo family that most have shortened to Martin and some to martinez. There is. A Martin de Sotomayor that was also shortened to different variations.
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dougandmerci@verizon.net
> Sender: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Tue
Es Manuel Gómez, no Diego. Manuel es hijo de Esteban Gómez y nieto de otro
Esteban, natural de Orgaz, hijo de Otro Esteban y de Catalina López, que
llegó a la Nueva Galicia con el Oidor Francisco de Pareja en 1578.
-----Mensaje original-----
De: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] En nombre de
mygenes2000@yahoo.com
Enviado el: Martes, 27 de Julio de 2010 10:48 a.m.
Para: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Asunto: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Gomez de Mendoza
The gomez hurtado de Mendoza from los altos de jalisco descend from Diego
Gomez and Catalina Hurtado de Mendoza. There were different Martin and
Martinez. There is a Martin del campo family that most have shortened to
Martin and some to martinez. There is. A Martin de Sotomayor that was also
shortened to different variations.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: dougandmerci@verizon.net
Sender: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Date
Hola Daniel, José Ignacio Gómez Hurtado de Mendoza es hijo de José Nicolás Gómez Hurtado de Mendoza y Bárbara Gertrudis Martín del Campo; y Felipa Catarina de Aceves es hija de Juan Francisco de Aceves y María Antonia Casillas y Cabrera.
Casaron el 17 de febrero de 1773 en Tepatitlán y tuvieron 12 hijos todos nacidos en Tepatitlán: María Margarita, María Dolores, María Felipa de la Cruz, José Lozano de San Rafael, María de Jesús, María Rafaela Crisanta, José Antonio Senón, María Anastasia Basilia, María Josefa, María Eusebia, María Secundina de Santa Rita y María Encarnación Gómez Hurtado de Mendoza.
Yo desciendo de esta pareja por su hija María Dolores Gómez Hurtado de Mendoza, quien casó con José Rafael Estrada Valencia en Tepatitlán.
L.C.P. Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.
Tepatitlán de Morelos, Jalisco, México.
Tel.: 3781095311
www.facebook.com/jorgeluis.ramirezgomez
_________________________________________________________________
¿Qué signigica Messenger para
Hola Jorge,
muchismas gracias! Por casualidad tienes mas informacion sobre Jose Nicolas GomezHurtado de Mendoza y Barbara Gertrudis Martin del Campo? No he tenido exito en conseguir datosde estos ultimos, en Familysearch hay un JOse Ignacio que tambien caso a una Felipa Catarinade Aceves pero este Ignacio es hijo de Jose Asencio Gomez de Mendoza y Barbara Martin del Campo?No se si esta equivocado esta persona? Quien son los padres de nuestro Nicolas y Barbara? Yodesciendo de Maria Josepha Gomez de Mendoza quien caso Jose Rosalino de Cervantes.
Daniel
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Hotmail has tools for the New Busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox.
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Hola Daniel, yo también tenía que Ignacio es hijo de Asencio Gómez Hurtado de Mendoza y Bárbara Martín del Campo, pero un amigo de Guadalajara me dijo que se llamaba José Nicolás Gómez Hurtado de Mendoza, quien casó el 13 de abril de 1743 en Tepatitlán con Bárbara Gertrudis Martín del Campo.
Según mi amigo, Nicolás es hijo de Manuel Cayetano Gómez Hurtado de Mendoza y Ana González Rubio; y su mujer Bárbara Gertrudis es hija de José Martín del Campo y Leonor de la Mora Hurtado de Mendoza.
L.C.P. Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.
Tepatitlán de Morelos, Jalisco, México.
Tel.: 3781095311
www.facebook.com/jorgeluis.ramirezgomez
_________________________________________________________________
Enciende tu hotness con Hotmail
www.hotmailhotness.com.mx
Hola Jorge,
Sabes los nombres de los padres de Jose Martin del campo y Leonor Mora-Mendoza? De nuevo en family search encuentre otro fuente que habia un Jose Alonso Martin del Campocasado con una Leonor Munoz de Hermosillo hija de Juan de la Mora Hurtado de Mendozay Leonor Munoz de Hermosillo, no se estas dos Leonor son la misma mujer?O no se si Jose Alonso y Jose Martin del Campo son el mismo hombre?
Por casualidad tienes estas personas en tus datos?
Jose Rosalino de Vercantes quein caso a Maria Josepha Gomez de Mendoza?Se que los padres de este Rosalino son Pedro de Cervantes y Bernarda de ZUniga.Estos deberian nacer ca. 1760 in Tepa o Ayo el Chico.
Juan de Aceves quien caso a Maria San Jose Navarro ca. 1790 en Tepa. Tuvieron a lo menos 3 hijos: Jose Manuel, Jose antonio Panataleon y CayetanoAceves. quien nacieron entre 1794-1805 en Tepatitlan.
Daniel
_________________________________________________________________
The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e
Jose Manuel Martin del Campo married 7feb1717. Tepa to Leonor de la Mora y Zamora (hermosillo)
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: Daniel Mendez de Camino
Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2010 11:45:44
To: Patty Hoyos
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ignacio Gomez de Mendoza & Felipa Catarina
de Aceves
Hola Jorge,
Sabes los nombres de los padres de Jose Martin del campo y Leonor Mora-Mendoza? De nuevo en family search encuentre otro fuente que habia un Jose Alonso Martin del Campocasado con una Leonor Munoz de Hermosillo hija de Juan de la Mora Hurtado de Mendozay Leonor Munoz de Hermosillo, no se estas dos Leonor son la misma mujer?O no se si Jose Alonso y Jose Martin del Campo son el mismo hombre?
Por casualidad tienes estas personas en tus datos?
Jose Rosalino de Vercantes quein caso a Maria Josepha Gomez de Mendoza?Se que los padres de este Rosalino son Pedro de Cervantes y Bernarda de ZUniga.Estos deberian nacer ca. 1760 in Tepa o Ayo el Chico.
Juan de
Si Daniel, son la misma Leonor. Leonor de la Mora Hurtado de Mendoza es hija de Juan de la Mora Hurtado de Mendoza y Leonor de Hermosillo, la cual casó con José Martín del Campo el 07 de febrero de 1717 en Tepatitlán. Nunca lo había visto como José Alonso, no se de donde lo viste así.
De los Cervantes que mencionas no tengo ningún dato, así como tampoco de Juan de Aceves y María de San José Navarro.
L.C.P. Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.
Tepatitlán de Morelos, Jalisco, México.
Tel.: 3781095311
www.facebook.com/jorgeluis.ramirezgomez
_________________________________________________________________
¿Te crees fan de Messenger? Compruébalo
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Varios meses en el pasado, hubo una pregunta acerca Josefa Beas, y Juan Thadeo Salas. Ahora he encontrado la línea en mi base de datos paterno He encontrado dos hijos con los registros de matrimonio en Totatiche, Jalisco, 1775 y 1872.
Lo siento, no he sido capaz de localizar la personal original en Nuestro's Rancho's que con la pregunta
Parece que tenemos antepasados comunes, y ahora puedo compartir la información sobre nuestra línea familiar.
Several months ago, there was an inquiry on Josefa Beas, and Juan Thadeo Salas. I have now found the line in my paternal data base.
I have found two son’s with marriage records in Totatiche, Jalisco, 1775 and 1872. I’m sorry, I have not been able to locate the original posting on Nuestro's Rancho's, or the person who posted. It appears that we have common
ancestors, and I can now share the information on our family line.
Helyn
San Jose, CA
There was a stigma in being illegitimate.
I have heard of cases where children were registered as " de padres no conocidos" or "Hijo de la Igresia", illegitimate children of PRIESTS and their mistress.
This past spring while on a visit to Degollado Jalisco, we had occasion to meet an elderly retired priest, who is a friend of distant relatives. The question of illegitimacy/hijo de dios/hija de iglesia came up. It reminded me of similar threads that ran on these pages several years ago. Some posted comments expressing surprize that "there were so many loose women" in that conservative era. The elderly priest (87 yrs. old) shed some interesting light on this topic. He stated that in the 1700/1800's it was not uncommon for men of "higher classes" to kidnap and rape women of "lower class". He stated this practice occurred with impudence, these "men" knowing there was virtually no chance of retribution/justice being done. He stated that there were even many popular "corridos" romanticising these cowards and their repugnant behaviours. He said the phrase "fue llevada" was commonly used to describe the victim and what had happened to her.
Often these rapes resulted in pregnancy and terms
Aurora Romo
In searching the records I have found that when a child is listed as Natural only the father is listed the mother's name is omitted. Is there a reason for this? Is there a document where it would be listed. The city birth record I was researching did not include the mothers name. Does the church records also omit the mothers name when the child is Natural. This is my current brick wall. Where do I go from here? I do know the name of the "mother" but not sure of her family name. I was told she was from La Chona.
Who are the people that you are looking for? I suppose that a lot of us are searching in Spain and you may be looking for someone that we have already found.
I'm thrilled to hear that group members have been successful researching in Europe. Therefore, this goes out again to anyone in the group that has made the successful jump in research from Mexico back to Spain with verifiable documentation.
At this point in time, I have three ancestors whose 1700's Mx records indicate they are from Spain, and my search has ended there. They are Juan Fermin Santelices from Santander, Domingo Antonio Rubio from Sevilla, and Juan Martin Arrambide y Arse, Spain.
I have two sets of parents: Tomas Santelices and Ma Antonia Ibanez and Juan Rubio and Magdelena Godoy.
Using PARES, I can find a Juan Santelices, Antonio Rubio,etc. in the right time frame and the right place in Spain, but based on my previous research in Mx, there are always contemporaries with the same names. So the question is how do you know that these are the ancestors you are looking for and not some one else with the same name, as always occurs?
Aside from IGI Spain, which is very
Alice,
I found something that may be useful. Using www.geneanet I found a Martin
Arrambide y Arza married to Antonia Glz. There is a person that lives in
France that has an email address referencing Zacatecas. You should contact
her. That entry also let me know there is a possible change of spelling for
Arse. At http://snae.org/CRIS/busqueda.es.php I found a marriage between
Miguel Arrambide and Virgida Yarza 1735-07-25 in Pasaia, Gipuzkoa, País
Vasco. http://snae.org/CRIS/ficha.es.php?id=178974&s=matrimonio They could
be the parents of Martín. I also found a baptism for a child of the previous
couple. Her name was Maria Rosa Arrambide Yarza baptized 1736-05-24.
http://snae.org/CRIS/ficha.es.php?id=764980&s=bautismo She could be a sister
to Martín. If that info coincides with anything you have and you can't get
copies at the FHC you can order them at http://mendezmende.org/es/partidas/
Arrambide is a very uncommon Basque surname native to Navarra which,
although of a Basque culture
Hello Armando,
You've got the right Martin Arrambide. As you will see, I have been working all possible leads, so I'm not looking for an easy way out, just some good direction.
I had the info that he married Juana Ma Antonia Gonzales on 11/22/1762 in Salinas Victoria, Nvo Leon. Unfortunately, his parents weren't named as he was widowed by Phelipa De Fuentes. A marriage entry 11/05/1759 for a Ma Isabel de Arrambide y Arsa, claiming Martin de Arrambide y Arza as father, and mother Ma Phelipa de la Fuente (defuncta). His death/burial record of 11/16/1776 states he had been married four times. It's interesting you mention France, because on that burial entry, he is not called "Espanol", but "Europeo". I would think that if he were a Spaniard, it would have said de Castilla or something to that effect, like my other ancestors.
The plot thickens: I found a 10/30/1749 marriage entry for Ana Phelipa Fuentes (3rd wife's name) to a Manuel Antonio Asque y Garcia in Mx DF. I don't
Alice,
I was sure you were already researching as much as possible and not looking
for and easy way out. Let me clarify the statement I made about the person
in France. She is most likely originally from Zacatecas based on her email
address but she lives in France. Her name is Monica Medina. Since she lives
in France and she isn't that far from Spain she might be able to go and do
some research for you since she is already researching that surname or maybe
she can find someone that can. Did your Martín have a son with the same name
that married a Felipa San Miguel? If so that is more info that connects your
Martín to Monica's, apart from the marriage. The info she entered about that
couple is at
http://gw4.geneanet.org/index.php3?b=mona26&lang=en;pz=xx;nz=ontiveros+…
her contact info is there also.
Other than what you already have and what I have suggested I have no idea
how you could connect the dots, we need someone else to answer that
Good Evening Armando,
You've been absolutely wonderful! I'm pretty new to genealogy and didn't know the geneanet site. I've joined and already sent an email to Monica, as her Martin Arrambide y Arze is the same as mine because the wife she lists on geneanet is also my 6th grgrandmother--his fourth and final wife (probably only because she outlived him!). I sincerely hope she responds as soon as possible. Again, thank you so much for your help. Alice
--- On Sun, 7/25/10, Armando wrote:
From: Armando
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Searching for ancestors in Spain
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Sunday, July 25, 2010, 12:30 AM
Alice,
I was sure you were already researching as much as possible and not looking
for and easy way out. Let me clarify the statement I made about the person
in France. She is most likely originally from Zacatecas based on her email
address but she lives in France. Her name is Monica Medina. Since she lives
in France and she isn't that far
Hello Alice,
That is great news. She also posted at the following site -
http://boards.ancestry.com/surnames.arrambide/2/mb.ashx
Hopefully you can find something that has the names of the parents of Martin
and/or a birthdate or age. Have you read all of his marriage records and all
of his childrens records? I redid a search of SNAE using only &bide as a
surname and in increments of 20 yrs from 1700 and on. The & makes it search
any surname that ends with bide. This is something that would be useful for
FamilySearch if they could include a wildcard search like that. Anyway, I
found a Nicolas Martin Arambide Arçe baptized 1701-05-23 in Pasaia,
Gipuzkoa. http://snae.org/CRIS/ficha.es.php?id=787974&s=bautismo Notice that
Arçe might be what is being interpreted or transcribed as Asque
Armando
On Sun, Jul 25, 2010 at 7:48 PM, Alice Blake wrote:
> Good Evening Armando,
> You've been absolutely wonderful! I'm pretty new to genealogy and didn't
> know the geneanet site. I've joined and
This is just to correct a portion of what I wrote. The wildcard is % and not
& for SNAE
On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 8:13 AM, Armando wrote:
> Hello Alice,
>
> That is great news. She also posted at the following site -
> http://boards.ancestry.com/surnames.arrambide/2/mb.ashx
> Hopefully you can find something that has the names of the parents of
> Martin and/or a birthdate or age. Have you read all of his marriage records
> and all of his childrens records? I redid a search of SNAE using only &bide
> as a surname and in increments of 20 yrs from 1700 and on. The & makes it
> search any surname that ends with bide. This is something that would be
> useful for FamilySearch if they could include a wildcard search like that.
> Anyway, I found a Nicolas Martin Arambide Arçe baptized 1701-05-23 in
> Pasaia, Gipuzkoa. http://snae.org/CRIS/ficha.es.php?id=787974&s=bautismo Notice
> that Arçe might be what is being interpreted or transcribed as Asque
>
> Armando
> On Sun, Jul 25, 2010 at 7:48
Armando,
This Nicolas Martin Arrambide Arce could be the person I'm looking for, or his brother. For one thing, his father was Joseph Feliz. My Martin Arrambide y Arze had a son by either his first or second wife, Quiteria De Los Santos, named Joseph Felis Arrambide. I haven't identified one of the four wives. If, if I were to find that his missing wife's name was Maria Josepha Ebora on another child's baptismal entry, would that be sufficient to conclude that this is the same person? Or would that only be speculation without any marriage entry for the parents?
I emailed Monica and another person researching Arrambides through Ancestry.com, too. I'm trying to put out as many feelers as possible. Thanks so much, Alice
--- On Mon, 7/26/10, Armando wrote:
From: Armando
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Searching for ancestors in Spain
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Monday, July 26, 2010, 3:03 PM
This is just to correct a portion of what I wrote. The wildcard is %
Im not sure if this was directed to me? I was just saying that
im a descendant of the Sanchez de Tagle, Altamirano de Castilla
and Colon de Larreategui. These lines were a bit hard to follow
and took so much work to document everything! They also moved
a lot, especially my Perez de Camino that traveled
New Spain and Mexico almost frequently.
Daniel Mendez de Camino y Garcia de Leon
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> From: mygenes2000@yahoo.com
> Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2010 01:49:26 +0000
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Searching for ancestors in Spain
>
> Who are the people that you are looking for? I suppose that a lot of us are searching in Spain and you may be looking for someone that we have already found.
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>
Hola,
Cual es la diferencia entre los archivos de genalogia de miembros y los archivos de GEDCOM TGN?, incluyen los unos a los otros?
Since this can be applied more generally I decided to post this question in this forum.
Up to now the purest according to dna were the irish. They did not mix with other cultures the way the iberians did. I say up to now but I mean yesterday.
Some of you wrote about the French. The French were in the Zacatecas area during the Maximiliano days in the 1860's.
When I scrolled through rolls of micro film at the Jesus Christ of Latter Days Saints Family History Center, I was browsing through the Defuntos of the mid 1800's of Huejuquilla El Alto, Jalisco, Mexico, our pueblo.
I found one relative by the name of Pablo Madera that was listed as, "Se Murio En La Guerra." Year 1862. What Guerra was happening in 1862?
Anyway, I met one of the political people of our pueblo who is tall, wheres a cowboy hat and he told me that his ancestors where from the french. He has two daughters that have dark redish hair and blue eyes. But they all got married.
I would say the French influence came at the time when they were present in the mid 1800's.
Another thing, one of the other family names in our pueblo of Huejuquilla is "MONROY."
Is that French?
In 1862 the guerra could be either guerra de la Reforma or the French intervention. The Frenchhave actually been present since the days of la Conquista. Along with Cortes, many were frenchmentrying to strike wealth in the new world. Monrroy is very Spanish not French. Hernan Cortes isalso a member of the House of Monrroy. Red hair and blue eyes can be present anywhere in Europeso its not necessarily France. A typical stereotype is red hair=irish; not true. I have a friend fromChihuahua, his last name is Renteria and is a red head.
Regards,Daniel
To learn more about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saintsplease visit www.mormon.org
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469227/direct/01/
I thought I read somewhere that the Monroy and Mondragon were Basque.
Emilie
Port Orchard, WA
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: zacatecano020@hotmail.com
> Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 16:37:15 -0800
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] mixture of clans
>
> Some of you wrote about the French. The French were in the Zacatecas area during the Maximiliano days in the 1860's.
>
> When I scrolled through rolls of micro film at the Jesus Christ of Latter Days Saints Family History Center, I was browsing through the Defuntos of the mid 1800's of Huejuquilla El Alto, Jalisco, Mexico, our pueblo.
>
> I found one relative by the name of Pablo Madera that was listed as, "Se Murio En La Guerra." Year 1862. What Guerra was happening in 1862?
>
> Anyway, I met one of the political people of our pueblo who is tall, wheres a cowboy hat and he told me that his ancestors where from the french. He has two daughters that have dark redish hair and blue eyes. But they all got married.
>
>
Monroy is found all over Spain. There is a town called Monroy in
Extremadura, founded in 1309, and many people probably have their surname
due to the name of the town. The name is of French origin meaning "mi rey"
"El placentino Blas Xil de Ocampo en su manuscrito sobre el linaje de los
Monroy, Biblioteca Nacional sig. 2242 de 1650, remonta el origen de este
apellido, al igual que muchos cronistas antiguos, a los descendientes de
Vigil de Monroy.
Vigil de Monroy es un caballero francés, hijo del rey Dagoberto, que huye de
su país con sus leales para librarse de su hermano que le usurpa el trono.
Cruza los pirineos y se refugia en las montañas astures donde es acogido por
el rey Pelayo que tras ver su bravura le nombra capitán (en latín vigil),
llamándole desde entonces sus leales Vigil mon Roy (capitán mi Rey), nombre
con el que se quedaría. Fe de ello puede darnos Pedro de Gratia Dey, rey de
armas de los Reyes Católicos, en su libro de blasones a los linajes de
Castilla (año 1484)
To give you a better answer technically the guerra de reforma ended in 1860 when Mexico City was re-taken and most of the Conservative military had been defeated in battle. Some fighting continued in 1861 but by that time most of the country was firmly in the hands of the liberal forces of President Juarez.
The French intervention was just a continuation of the Mexican civil war, or guerra de reforma.
Anyways I just had looked this up but there was a Zacatecas division under General Jesus Gonzalez Ortega that faught at the battle of Cerro del Borrego against French troops in June 1862. This might be the battle that entry referred to, as the Mexican troops took on heavy casualties, especially their officers. Aside from that the other notable fight that took place was at Puebla although so far as I know I haven't found any Zacatecas unit that was at that battle. If there were any from that state they were probably in the regular army.
This style of hat is worn by the old people in the ranchos of our pueblo Huejuquilla El Alto, Jalisco, Mexico:
http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/7320/33349932.jpg
I am curious to it's origin. It is also worn by some of the Huichole Indigenous people, but they put feathers on it.
So is it european or indigenous in origin?
I have a cousin that is researching our indigenous peoples that live in our area the Huicholes. And I am researching our european origin. So there is two of us doing research on our histories.
Now speaking of present day Mexico, There are Jewish communities in Mexico City, Guadalajara and Monterrey
Once in a while articles about the communities come up in the news.
A famous news person in Mexico is Jacobo Zabludovsky. His parents are from Poland.
There is a website of the Israeli community of Guadalajara and it is:
I also found this other website of the Lebanese community of Mexico City:
Jewish have been present in Mexico since the early colonial days. Even in Jalisco! In our pueblo of Huejuquilla one of the major family names is "Landa."
In this website you can type in the surname "Landa" and the location as: Huejuquilla, Jalisco:
http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#p=home
When I entered that name in a surname origin website, it came out as Jewish:
http://www.houseofnames.com/xq/asp.fc/qx/quick-family-crest.htm
Hello,
When I search apellido Landa it comes up as a Basque surname.
Landa = prado http://www.euskalnet.net/laviana/gen_bascas/landeta.htm
http://www.misapellidos.com/ver_datos.phtml?cod=8203
http://www.bisabuelos.com/ape/landa.html
http://www.apellidosvascos.com/landa.htm
Any surname can be considered Jewish since they took up the surnames of the
countries they lived in. Therefore the surname is never a dead giveaway.
Same thing with the German surnames -
http://www.amfi.org/mailbag/GermanNames.htm
Saludos,
Armando
On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 3:13 PM, wrote:
> Jewish have been present in Mexico since the early colonial days. Even in
> Jalisco! In our pueblo of Huejuquilla one of the major family names is
> "Landa."
>
> In this website you can type in the surname "Landa" and the location as:
> Huejuquilla, Jalisco:
>
> http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#p=home
>
> When I entered that name in a surname origin website, it came out as
> Jewish:
>
> http://www
Here is another website I should have linked -
http://www.jewfaq.org/jnames.htm
That same website seems to be complete on everything Jewish. It even goes
into detail about who is a Jew - http://www.jewfaq.org/whoisjew.htm
On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 10:24 PM, Armando Antuñano wrote:
> Hello,
>
> When I search apellido Landa it comes up as a Basque surname.
> Landa = prado http://www.euskalnet.net/laviana/gen_bascas/landeta.htm
> http://www.misapellidos.com/ver_datos.phtml?cod=8203
> http://www.bisabuelos.com/ape/landa.html
> http://www.apellidosvascos.com/landa.htm
>
> Any surname can be considered Jewish since they took up the surnames of the
> countries they lived in. Therefore the surname is never a dead giveaway.
> Same thing with the German surnames -
> http://www.amfi.org/mailbag/GermanNames.htm
>
> Saludos,
> Armando
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 3:13 PM, wrote:
>
>> Jewish have been present in Mexico since the early colonial days. Even in
>> Jalisco! In our pueblo of
Yes, Jewish came to Mexico during the colonial times. Monterrey was suppose to have been founded by Jewish settlers. The tradition food of Monterrey is "Cabrito"
But even in Jalisco, we eat "Capirotada" and "Semas" (origins are Jewish)
http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/2840/comidasemas.jpg
http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/384/capirotada.jpg
I want to note that during Septemeber in the city of Zacatecas, they do the reanactment of the Moors vs the Spanish. Called the Morismas de Bracho.
Alto south of Aguascalientes in Guanajuato they do Medeival Festivals:
http://www.hermandadmedieval.com/
Check out the Galician or Celtic style of Music in Guanajuato Festival:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuPCDilm9wI
Gitanos:
Jalisco History says that people from Jalostotitlán Jalisco founded Monterrey, Jews settlers in Mexico is a myth, Mariano Gonzalez in his book "Retoños de España en la nueva Galicia mentions that. By the way, Marianos 7 books will be reary soon, book # 1 is ready.
Ruben Casillas M.
--- El lun 22-feb-10, zacatecano020@hotmail.com escribió:
De:: zacatecano020@hotmail.com
Asunto: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] mixture of clans
A: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Fecha: lunes, 22 de febrero de 2010, 22:15
Yes, Jewish came to Mexico during the colonial times. Monterrey was suppose to have been founded by Jewish settlers. The tradition food of Monterrey is "Cabrito"
But even in Jalisco, we eat "Capirotada" and "Semas" (origins are Jewish)
http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/2840/comidasemas.jpg
http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/384/capirotada.jpg
I want to note that during Septemeber in the city of Zacatecas, they do the reanactment of the Moors vs the Spanish. Called the Morismas de
"Jew settlers in Mexico is a myth"!!!???
Some of my husband's ancestors, the Acostas, were conversos--lots of those came to New Mexico and Mexico. Also, many Mexicans whose ancestors have been in Mexico since the 1600s or earlier have Jewish DNA! Mariano should explain himself.
Emilie
Port Orchard, WA
> Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 07:08:19 -0800
> From: rubenazo_casillas@yahoo.com.mx
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] mixture of clans
>
> Jalisco History says that people from Jalostotitlán Jalisco founded Monterrey, Jews settlers in Mexico is a myth, Mariano Gonzalez in his book "Retoños de España en la nueva Galicia mentions that. By the way, Marianos 7 books will be reary soon, book # 1 is ready.
>
> Ruben Casillas M.
>
> --- El lun 22-feb-10, zacatecano020@hotmail.com escribió:
>
>
> De:: zacatecano020@hotmail.com
> Asunto: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] mixture of clans
> A: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Fecha: lunes, 22 de febrero
Hi there Emile ,
I have to agree with you on puting the Kabash on the myth thing . It´s documented during the inquisition that early settlers were caught , tried and some sent back to Spain for sentencing .
Here in Monterrey , Mexico there were several settlers who were Jewish . Now they came as conversos or marranos but they were known to be of Jewish descent .
Luis Carvajal de la Cueva , Diego Montemayor . These two were founders of Monterrey
Welester
>
> "Jew settlers in Mexico is a myth"!!!???
>
>
>
> Some of my husband's ancestors, the Acostas, were conversos--lots of those came to New Mexico and Mexico. Also, many Mexicans whose ancestors have been in Mexico since the 1600s or earlier have Jewish DNA! Mariano should explain himself.
>
>
>
> Emilie
>
> Port Orchard, WA
>
> > Jalisco History says that people from Jalostotitlán Jalisco founded Monterrey, Jews settlers in Mexico is a myth, Mariano Gonzalez in his book "Retoños de España en la
Most of The first families from jalisco were related through the hernandez de hijar and the hurtado de mendoza and there is clear documentation showing at least 4 moor lines and other jewish (marano) lines this is not an opinion, there is clear evidence of this. The mountains where the mendoza family came from was originally a jewish area. Many of The families that the mendoza married into in Castilla also originated from this jewish area. I also believe that the perez that married into the francos to form the perez franco de paredes family were from the jewish perestrello family of portugal this family was originally the Pallestrelli family of Genoa. This last bit of info is the only info here that has not been clearly documented yet and some people disagree with my opinion of where the perez came from.
I repeat, the connection to the hernandez de hijar and mendoza lines to jewish and moorish ancestors have been documented
------Original Message------
From: Emilie Garcia
Because the Jewish "clans" preferred to marry within their own clans and of
their own faith, it appears that the majority carry very similar DNA.
While it is true that one needed to be born from a Jewish mother to be
considered Jewish, it is also true that in the Kohen tribe, or priestly family
of the Jewish faith. _http://www.cohen-levi.org/_
(http://www.cohen-levi.org/) , only Cohen MALES can perform the Temple's service. This is a very
sensitive subject within the today's Jewish communities - especially by Jewish
women.
This may not define "race", however neither being Spanish, Irish, Mexican
is considered a "race", as the traditional thinking of race is defined by
color, not ethnic, national, or religious origins. I liked the heading of
this topic "clans"...it attempts to define family lineage within a larger
scope of a given nation - something we all do as we go down the path of
genealogy and our ancestry.
It is of no coincidence that many
This is interesting Esperanza, I have some "jewish" blood too from Chihuahua. Yes, many peopleoften confuse race with a nationality. I always hear "oh he's dad is mexican and the mother is white"Wherein fact Mexicans can be of any race (white, black, asian, mestizo). Mexican is a nationalitynot a race. It like American is to Mexican. Within each country wherever europeans went theyleft their blood. So in each respective country youll find all type of people. My mother recalls oncewhen she immigrated in in the 1960s people did not believe she was Mexican because she was blonde. She replied "Claro que soy mexicana!" But she had to attend a "white" school, which makes everythingconfusing, one side is saying Mexicans are seperate but we see in her case? The US has slowly beencorrecting the error though. Acknolwedng the varied racial people within hispanic and latino. I alsoam iffy on the hispanic/latino term, it's very contraversial hence why I personally do not support itwe are
all
Very interesting, Esperanza--
That reminds me of a lady I once knew, surnamed Cohen (her maiden name). Her father held a very high position in the Conservative Judaic community. When he died, he was buried in robes and a miter very similar to what the pope wears for special rituals, to signify his special status.
Emilie
Port Orchard, WA
> From: Latina1955@aol.com
> Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 00:38:55 -0500
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] mixture of clans
>
> Because the Jewish "clans" preferred to marry within their own clans and of
> their own faith, it appears that the majority carry very similar DNA.
> While it is true that one needed to be born from a Jewish mother to be
> considered Jewish, it is also true that in the Kohen tribe, or priestly family
> of the Jewish faith. _http://www.cohen-levi.org/_
> (http://www.cohen-levi.org/) , only Cohen MALES can perform the Temple's service. This is a very
> sensitive subject within the
Garza family is purported to have Jewish lineage, as are others who settled
in Nuevo Leon, Coahuila and Texas....but that doesn't mean that weren't
from Spain....just like someone here in US could have Jewish lineage, but it
doesn't mean they aren't from America.
I suppose immigration trends, based on different eras/periods could be
traced to familial patterns, potential of income/survival, or actual land
grants - and as such I suspect there was some co-mingling of families at
different "epocas".
Esperanza, Chicagoland area
Hello Ruben - Can you please share with us what evidence Mariano uses to justify the statement that Jews in Mexico is a 'myth'? I don't have the book. Interesting statement to make when there is much history that proves otherwise including the Spanish Inquisition which also took place in Mexico.
thanks for sharing,
Yolanda
________________________________
From: ruben casillas moreno
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Tue, February 23, 2010 7:08:19 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] mixture of clans
Jalisco History says that people from Jalostotitlán Jalisco founded Monterrey, Jews settlers in Mexico is a myth, Mariano Gonzalez in his book "Retoños de España en la nueva Galicia mentions that. By the way, Marianos 7 books will be reary soon, book # 1 is ready.
Ruben Casillas M.
--- El lun 22-feb-10, zacatecano020@hotmail.com escribió:
De:: zacatecano020@hotmail.com
Asunto: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] mixture of clans
A: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Fecha: lunes, 22 de
Hola yolanda, no se que evidencias tiene Don Mariano, solo se que es experto en genealogía e historia, en su libro numero 1 menciona eso, yo solo se que si hubo judios conversos pero no fueron grandes cantidades ni grandes grupos que fundaron ciudades, además el judaismo es
una religion no una raza, en la actualidad si hay sinagogas de judios que han inmigrado a Mexico ultimamente pero no en ciglos pasados.
Saludos
Ruben Casillas M.
--- El mar 23-feb-10, Yolanda Ochoa escribió:
De:: Yolanda Ochoa
Asunto: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] mixture of clans
A: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Fecha: martes, 23 de febrero de 2010, 15:25
Hello Ruben - Can you please share with us what evidence Mariano uses to justify the statement that Jews in Mexico is a 'myth'? I don't have the book. Interesting statement to make when there is much history that proves otherwise including the Spanish Inquisition which also took place in Mexico.
thanks for sharing,
Yolanda
________________________________
Hello Yolanda and Ruben,
I think that we have to be clear when referring to "Jews" in Mexico. As one
of you pointed out we cannot deny the presence of "Jews", it is well
documented. However, the "Jews" that were allowed to come to Mexico and
other Spanish colonies were actually "conversos" and expected to practice
the Catholic faith. I'm sure that there were several "conversos" that were
involved in the founding of settlements. Those that faltered and returned to
their Jewish faith were removed from power and prosecuted by the Spanish
Inquisition as Yolanda mentions. Therefore, I can see how Mariano Gonzalez
can claim that Jewish settlers in Mexico is a myth, the Catholic church
would not allow it - they were "conversos" or converted Jews who lived among
the regular population as long as they behaved like good Catholics and not
"Jews."
As far as "Jews" being a race I believe they are considered part of the
"Semitic" group which according to Websters includes Arabs and
Hello Angelina,
Ruben had already made the comment that Judaism is a religion and not a
race, which goes along with what you say Mariano is saying, even though he
may not have intended it. Once they give up their religion they are no
longer Jewish. However, many of them practiced in hiding, so it is hard to
tell which really were, even with DNA. Especially because culture, religion,
and race don't always coincide just as Semitic speakers include Arab
Muslims, Arab Christians, and Jews. It also goes along with my posts in the
thread that started this thread, the Madera family. I used the examples of
Castillian being of Latin origin but the DNA of the Castilians is not Roman
and not all groups of people considered Celtic were of the same DNA. Or how
about Mexicans that don't have Jewish blood eating capirotada. I also
understand that if the mother is not Jewish the children are not either. So
for DNA studies those with Y-DNA of Jews aren't Jews, only those with mt-DNA
are. Anyway, Gary
Hola Yolanda,
puedes encontrar lo que buscas haciendo clic en el siguiente enlace -
http://genealogia-mexico-occidente.googlegroups.com/web/LOS+MITOS+SEFAR…
Es el ultimo de los que sale en la siguiente pagina -
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/genealogia-mexico-occidente/files?h…
On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 3:25 PM, Yolanda Ochoa wrote:
> Hello Ruben - Can you please share with us what evidence Mariano uses to
> justify the statement that Jews in Mexico is a 'myth'? I don't have the
> book. Interesting statement to make when there is much history that proves
> otherwise including the Spanish Inquisition which also took place in Mexico.
> thanks for sharing,
> Yolanda
>
Well, Don Mariano seems to be speaking solely of one area in the New World, Jalisco, or Los Altos de-- Still, if Altenos were of Spanish stock, they were still a mixed breed evolving from centuries of various cultures on the Iberian peninsula--- Visigoth, Moorish, Judaic---My little Muslim friend in Egypt tells me that the Arabic word for rice is ---- guess what?---Arroz! My Jewish friends told me that some of the hymnal music in the Catholic church is the same as in their temples. The early Spaniards could have promoted Christianity, and made the crime of apostasy punishable by death, but they brought a very mixed culture with them.
Mariano speaks of the food as being Spanish, such as "Cocido"--to the French, cocido is "Pot au Feu", but I think that is only because basic food like soups and stews that are thrown together with whatever meat and veggies are at hand is the same all over the world and goes by different names.
I do concede that the "French" thing can be a
Then how come when you look at Gary Felix's board and hit the dna link most of the dna results for Texas and NE Mexico is e1b1 and J1 and J2, in otherwords Jewish.
--
Esther A. Herold
-------------- Original message from ruben casillas moreno : --------------
Jalisco History says that people from Jalostotitlán Jalisco founded Monterrey, Jews settlers in Mexico is a myth, Mariano Gonzalez in his book "Retoños de España en la nueva Galicia mentions that. By the way, Marianos 7 books will be
> reary soon, book # 1 is ready.
>
> Ruben Casillas M.
> --- El lun 22-feb-10, zacatecano020@hotmail.com
> escribió:
>
>
> De:: zacatecano020@hotmail.com
> Asunto: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] mixture of clans
> A: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Fecha: lunes, 22 de febrero de 2010, 22:15
>
> Yes, Jewish came to Mexico during the colonial times. Monterrey was suppose to have been founded by Jewish settlers. The tradition food of Monterrey is
> "Cabrito"
>
> But even in Jalisco, we
Some of these same families in new mexico also had branches in jalos jalisco.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: eaherold@att.net
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 04:47:36
To:
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] mixture of clans
Then how come when you look at Gary Felix's board and hit the dna link most of the dna results for Texas and NE Mexico is e1b1 and J1 and J2, in otherwords Jewish.
--
Esther A. Herold
-------------- Original message from ruben casillas moreno : --------------
Jalisco History says that people from Jalostotitlán Jalisco founded Monterrey, Jews settlers in Mexico is a myth, Mariano Gonzalez in his book "Retoños de España en la nueva Galicia mentions that. By the way, Marianos 7 books will be
> reary soon, book # 1 is ready.
>
> Ruben Casillas M.
> --- El lun 22-feb-10, zacatecano020@hotmail.com
> escribió:
>
>
> De:: zacatecano020@hotmail.com
> Asunto: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] mixture of clans
> A: research@lists
iyehuiyyqwqe1
-----Original Message-----
From: research-request@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2010 3:06 PM
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Research Digest,
Para comenzar debo decir que me siento honrado de que alguien con una trayectoria tan importante como lo es usted, sea parte de este grupo genealogico en el que, como ya habra notado seguramente, hab
Me parece intersantísimo lo que me informa. Espero estudiarlo. Gracias.
Saludos muy cordiales
GTT
-----Mensaje original-----
De: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org [mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] En nombre de migueltran@gmail.com
Enviado el: Viernes, 23 de Julio de 2010 11:13 a.m.
Para: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Asunto: [Nuestros Ranchos] Pregunta para don Guillermo Tovar de Teresa: Gil de Lara.
Para comenzar debo decir que me siento honrado de que alguien con una trayectoria tan importante como lo es usted, sea parte de este grupo genealogico en el que, como ya habra notado seguramente, habemos muchos aficionadillos tratando de aprender y colaborar en la medida de nuestras posibilidades, y capacidades(al menos hablo por mi persona).
La pregunta de la que quisiera su respuesta es: Ya que usted ha publicado en el libro "Crnica de una familia entre dos mundos" contenido acerca de la casa de Lara en Mexico, conoce usted relacion alguna de
Yo también desciendo de ellos. Encontré una Capellanía en la Sagrada Mitra de Guadalajara que me dio los nombres que usted menciona. No he encontrado ninguna relación con la Casa de Lara.
No era hija natural sino legítima.
-----Mensaje original-----
De: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org [mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] En nombre de migueltran@gmail.com
Enviado el: Viernes, 23 de Julio de 2010 11:13 a.m.
Para: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Asunto: [Nuestros Ranchos] Pregunta para don Guillermo Tovar de Teresa: Gil de Lara.
Para comenzar debo decir que me siento honrado de que alguien con una trayectoria tan importante como lo es usted, sea parte de este grupo genealogico en el que, como ya habra notado seguramente, habemos muchos aficionadillos tratando de aprender y colaborar en la medida de nuestras posibilidades, y capacidades(al menos hablo por mi persona).
La pregunta de la que quisiera su respuesta es: Ya que usted ha publicado en el libro
Hay otra Lara que es ancestra de muchos alteno, sobles los Gallardos,
Francisco Martin "el Gallardo" hijo del General caso a Catalina Maldonado
de Guzman hija de Jorge Manrique de Lara y Jacinta Maldonado de Guzman
como son relacionados estos Manrique de Lara a la gran casa de Lara,
solo se que Manrique de Lara es un linaje ya muy antiguo en Espana.
Daniel Mendez de Camino y Garcia de Leon
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: migueltran@gmail.com
> Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 16:13:06 -0700
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Pregunta para don Guillermo Tovar de Teresa: Gil de Lara.
>
> Para comenzar debo decir que me siento honrado de que alguien con una trayectoria tan importante como lo es usted, sea parte de este grupo genealogico en el que, como ya habra notado seguramente, habemos muchos aficionadillos tratando de aprender y colaborar en la medida de nuestras posibilidades, y capacidades(al menos hablo por mi persona).
>
> La pregunta de la que quisiera su
No consta que tengan nada que ver. El Conde Pedro Manrique de Lara vivió en
el siglo XIII y su descendencia fue por los Molina de Úbeda, hasta llegar a
Francisco de Molina, casado con Constanza de Mosquera. Eso lo estudió hace
muchísimo tiempo el "príncipe de los genalogistas", como le llamaron en su
tiempo, a don Luis de Salazar y Castro, quien publicó cuatro tomos titulados
"Historia genealógica de la Casa de Lara", impreso en el siglo XVII.
Los Gallardo eran de Irapuato y son otra historia.
Un error en la genealogía es pensar que siempre descendemos de grandes casas
nobiliarias y nos falta la modestia para ver las cosas como son. A veces,
tenemos suerte y conectamos muy bien, pero en general hay que ser cautelosos
y sin pretensiones. El pobre de Nicolás Gallardo no fue "General" y no hay
que mezclar los estudios genealógicos con la megalomanía.
GTT
-----Mensaje original-----
De: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] En
Tengo un expediente que dice que el padre de Francisco Martin Gallardo,
tambien Francisco Martin Gallardo quien era casado a Teresa de Rodas
que era Teniente General y Familiar del S. O. de la Inquisición. Hubo
bastante otros Manrique de LAra , aun en mis archivos
y que estudiado (me encanta la genealogia medieval,) Manrique era
un nombre muy popular en la Casa de Lara, varios descendientes lo
utilizaron, lo que hace mas dificil a remotar estos Manrique de LAra
en Irapuato. Yo vengo de los Gallardo y Rincon Gallardo por medio
de los Colon de Larreategui. La familia Gallardo ha sido unas de mis favoritas
en mis estudios personales.
Daniel Mendez de Camino y Garcia de Leon
> From: gmotovar@prodigy.net.mx
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2010 21:36:23 -1200
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Pregunta para don Guillermo Tovar de Teresa: Gil de Lara.
>
> No consta que tengan nada que ver. El Conde Pedro Manrique de Lara vivió en
> el siglo XIII y su
Pero no tienen nada que ver.
La historia de la Casa de Lara es complejísima. Pero la lpinea mayor la
llevaron los Molina de Úbeda, en Andalucía.
El gran personaje que hay que estudiar, por interesante y cosmopolita lo es,
sin duda, por ejemplo, Guido de Lavezares, con muchos parientes en
Nochistlán. Fue Gobernador de Filipinas y una suerte de Marco Polo: viajó
por India, China, Japón y hasta Africa. Queremos descender de nobles, pero
prefiero a las gentes interesantes, como lo es este caso.
-----Mensaje original-----
De: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] En nombre de Daniel
Mendez de Camino y Garcia de Leon
Enviado el: Viernes, 23 de Julio de 2010 02:51 p.m.
Para: Patty Hoyos
Asunto: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Pregunta para don Guillermo Tovar de Teresa:
Gil de Lara.
Tengo un expediente que dice que el padre de Francisco Martin Gallardo,
tambien Francisco Martin Gallardo quien era casado a Teresa de Rodas
que era Teniente
Esto si es verdad si muy complicada la Casa de Lara,, lleno de mucha
historia. Solo queria saber si alguein tuvo exito a remotar estos
Manrique de Lara en Irapuato a los de Espana, es todo. Para mi la
genealogia es importante por que quiero saber de donde proviene
mi sangre, he aprendido varias cosas. Tuve exito hoy encontrar la
ultima acta que me conecta con los Sanchez de Tagle. Era el matrimonio
de mi ancestro Manuel Silvestre Perez de Camino, en la ciudad de Mexico.
Estuve muy ancioso a saber sobre este linaje, en unas horas lo estudio en
detalle.
Daniel Mendez de Camino y Garcia de Leon
> From: gmotovar@prodigy.net.mx
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2010 22:05:07 -1200
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Pregunta para don Guillermo Tovar de Teresa: Gil de Lara.
>
> Pero no tienen nada que ver.
>
> La historia de la Casa de Lara es complejísima. Pero la lpinea mayor la
> llevaron los Molina de Úbeda, en Andalucía.
>
> El gran personaje que
Te felicito. La línea Sánchez de Tagle es de primera categoría por su
historia en México y por su nobleza. En 1704 le fue concedido el título de
Marqués de Altamira a Don Luis Sánchez de Tagle, Caballero de Santiago y
vecino de México. Ese título fue usurpado en España por un señor O´Donell al
que le entra por un "sifonazo", pues todavía hay Sánchez de Tagle en México
de primer apellido, a quienes les corresponde ese título.
La nobleza en España, hoy en día, es cuestión de pícaros. Los títulos
mexicanos fueron robados después de la Independencia, en la mayoría de los
casos.
-----Mensaje original-----
De: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] En nombre de Daniel
Mendez de Camino y Garcia de Leon
Enviado el: Viernes, 23 de Julio de 2010 03:26 p.m.
Para: Patty Hoyos
Asunto: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Pregunta para don Guillermo Tovar de Teresa:
Gil de Lara.
Esto si es verdad si muy complicada la Casa de Lara,, lleno de mucha
En caso que varios nobles mexicanos pues titulados volvieron a Espana, todavia existen muchos en Mexico
un ejemplo son los Romero de Torreros que todavia viven en la CIudad de Mexico. Cosa interesante mi abuelo
cada vez mencionaba los Caminos de "gran linajes y sabian como casarse" pero nunca imaginaba los
Tagle en este arbol. Me asegure que toda estaria documentado. Yo personalmente aunque solo
un porcentaje de Mexico estan "titulados" no estan reconcidos en la Republica solo en Espana, pero si
son respetados. La demografia en Mexico es alguo interesante hace semanas que mi abuelo y yo conversamos
sobre esto dicho tema. La cual que en Mexico todos saben aun que no hay "aristocracia lega" todos saben
quien tiene el dinero, quien tiene poder y los que tienen historia y linaje ilustros. Me da risa cuando muchos dicen
que en Mexico todos son tratodos igualmente, no lo es, yo lo he visto en mis viajes. Pues ya eso es suficiente. En el
matrimonio encontre que Manuel PErez de
El dinero puede hacer muchos milagros, menos comprar la sangre y la
historia.
-----Mensaje original-----
De: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] En nombre de Daniel
Mendez de Camino y Garcia de Leon
Enviado el: Viernes, 23 de Julio de 2010 04:42 p.m.
Para: Patty Hoyos
Asunto: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Pregunta para don Guillermo Tovar de Teresa:
Gil de Lara.
En caso que varios nobles mexicanos pues titulados volvieron a Espana,
todavia existen muchos en Mexico
un ejemplo son los Romero de Torreros que todavia viven en la CIudad de
Mexico. Cosa interesante mi abuelo
cada vez mencionaba los Caminos de "gran linajes y sabian como casarse" pero
nunca imaginaba los
Tagle en este arbol. Me asegure que toda estaria documentado. Yo
personalmente aunque solo
un porcentaje de Mexico estan "titulados" no estan reconcidos en la
Republica solo en Espana, pero si
son respetados. La demografia en Mexico es alguo interesante hace
Ahora que sale a discusión un poco el tema de los Martín Gallardo, yo también quiero hacerle una pregunta a don Guillermo Tovar sobre un ancestro mío que vivió en Aguascalientes por 1660 aprox.
Su nombre es Desiderio Martín Gallardo, y lo único que he podido encontrar es que es hijo de una mujer llamada Ana de Elizarrarás. Me gustaría avanzar esta línea genealógica, pero no he podido; y quiero saber si usted me puede ayudar en ello.
Desiderio Martín Gallardo estaba casado con Jerónima de la Torre, de quien tampoco encuentro nada. Hasta ahora tengo en mi base de datos a tres hijos del matrimonio formado por Desiderio y Jerónima, que son Magdalena (mi ancestro), Manuel y Antonio.
Me despido con un gran saludo.
L.C.P. Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.
Tepatitlán de Morelos, Jalisco, México.
Tel.: 3781095311
www.facebook.com/jorgeluis.ramirezgomez
_________________________________________________________________
¿Qué signigica Messenger para ti?
www.vivirmessenger.com
Parece que la esposa de Francisco MArtin Gallardo, hijo
quien era Catalina Maldonado Guzman hija de Jorge
Manrique de LAra y Jacinta Maldonado de Guzman,
pues parece Maldonado de Guzman realmente es
Arias Maldonado casado con un Guzman. En varios registros
que poseyo Catalina parece como Catalina Arias Maldonado
y en un ocasion parece Arias Maldonado Guzman. Son estos
pequenos pistas que nos da luz. Hay posibildad que el
Francisco Martin Gallardo, mayor caso dos veces.
Daniel Mendez de Camino y Garcia de Leon
> From: georgio_2386@hotmail.com
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2010 10:10:53 -0500
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Pregunta para don Guillermo Tovar de Teresa: Gil de Lara.
>
>
> Ahora que sale a discusión un poco el tema de los Martín Gallardo, yo también quiero hacerle una pregunta a don Guillermo Tovar sobre un ancestro mío que vivió en Aguascalientes por 1660 aprox.
>
>
>
> Su nombre es Desiderio Martín Gallardo, y lo único que
Los Gallardo eran de Iraúato y entroncan con los Flores de la Torre en el
siglo XVII. Es la familia que da origen al Mayorazgo de Rincón Gallardo y
Marqueses de Guadalupe.
Saludos
GTT
-----Mensaje original-----
De: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] En nombre de Jorge Luis
Ramírez Gómez
Enviado el: Sábado, 24 de Julio de 2010 03:11 a.m.
Para: Nuestros Ranchos
Asunto: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Pregunta para don Guillermo Tovar de Teresa:
Gil de Lara.
Ahora que sale a discusión un poco el tema de los Martín Gallardo, yo
también quiero hacerle una pregunta a don Guillermo Tovar sobre un ancestro
mío que vivió en Aguascalientes por 1660 aprox.
Su nombre es Desiderio Martín Gallardo, y lo único que he podido encontrar
es que es hijo de una mujer llamada Ana de Elizarrarás. Me gustaría avanzar
esta línea genealógica, pero no he podido; y quiero saber si usted me puede
ayudar en ello.
Desiderio Martín Gallardo estaba
---Originalmente publicado por el moderador del grupo---
Espanol sigue abajo.
Espero más seriedad y menos especulaciones.
-----Mensaje original-----
De: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org [mailto:general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] En nombre de migueltran@gmail.com
Enviado el: Jueves, 22 de Julio de 2010 07:24 a.m.
Para: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Asunto: [Nuestros Ranchos] Les recuerdo estas recomendaciones - Remember this recommendations
---Originalmente publicado por el moderador del grupo---
Espanol sigue abajo.
With all of the new membership-AND NOT NEWS TOO-, it is worth repeating some basic guidlines that we would like members to follow when posting messages to the Nuestros Ranchos forums:
1. Make sure you post to the correct forum. There are some members who only want to be involved in serious genealogical research while others like the more general banter about genealogy software or the best pozole recipe. As such, please make sure you post to the lists as follows:
RESEARCH - Genealogy Research - This forum is reserved for
Hola busco datos sobre esta Petrona Gonzalez Macias casada con
JOseph de Lozano el 23 de febrero de 1666 en Aguascalientes. Pudo
encontrar los padres de Joseph quienes son Cristobal de Lozano y
Hola busco datos sobre esta Catarina o Catalina de Sandoval
casada con Tomas de la Cruz GOnzalez Bermejo en Nochistlan.
Saque la informacion del libro de Vasquez y Rodriguez de Frias.
Hola compañeros de Nuestros Ranchos, ayer me encontré en un problema al estar revisando el registro de bautismo de algunos hijos del Alcalde de Santa María de los Lagos Francisco Rodríguez y de
Cuando María de Isassi enviudó de Juan Gómez de Portugal, contrajo
matrimonio con el Capt. Pedro Arias Pardo. Juan Gómez de Portugal falleció
en Lagos el 22 de Octubre de 1640. María de Issasi casó por segunda vez el
8 de Junio de 1642. Ana de Portugal era hija de Juan Gómez de Portugal y
de María de Issasi, como correctamente te indicara don Mariano González
Leal. Ana fue bautizada el 7 de Agosto de 1639.
Me imagino que habiéndose vuelto a casar María de Issasi con el Capt. Pedro
Arias Pardo también se le consideraba cortesmente como "abuelo" de los hijos
de Ana de Portugal.
BILL FIGUEROA
Muchas gracias Bill, siempre dispuesto a ayudar. Daniel creo que lo que preguntabas ya te las ha contestado Bill con grandes datos.
Y pues como dices Bill, por cortesía creo que llamaban al Capitán Pedro Arias Pardo como su abuelo.
L.C.P. Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.
Tepatitlán de Morelos, Jalisco, México.
Tel.: 3781095311
www.facebook.com/jorgeluis.ramirezgomez
_________________________________________________________________
Enciende tu hotness con Hotmail
www.hotmailhotness.com.mx
No solo eso si lo pensamos Ana nacio casi en el ano
antes que Juan murio, o sea que Pedro Arias Pardo
la crio como su hija, es posible que habia una conexcion
de Ana a PEdro Arias ya que ella nunca conocio su padre
biologico.
Daniel Mendez de Camino y Garcia de Leon
> From: bill_figueroa@usa.net
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 11:38:16 -0500
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ana Gómez de Portugal.
>
> Cuando María de Isassi enviudó de Juan Gómez de Portugal, contrajo
> matrimonio con el Capt. Pedro Arias Pardo. Juan Gómez de Portugal falleció
> en Lagos el 22 de Octubre de 1640. María de Issasi casó por segunda vez el
> 8 de Junio de 1642. Ana de Portugal era hija de Juan Gómez de Portugal y
> de María de Issasi, como correctamente te indicara don Mariano González
> Leal. Ana fue bautizada el 7 de Agosto de 1639.
>
> Me imagino que habiéndose vuelto a casar María de Issasi con el Capt. Pedro
> Arias Pardo también se le consideraba cortesmente
Wow, ni sabia esto. Es probable que es verdad, que como era padrasto, porque lo
sabemos en el matrimonio que dice el Capt. Juan Gomez de Portugal y Maria de Ysasi.
Cuales de los ninos dicen que su abuelo era Capt. Pedro Arias Pardo? No tienes
la fecha de defuncion de Capt. Juan Gomez de Portugal o la fecha cuanda
esta Maria de Ysasi volvio a casar se con el Arias Pardo? Gracias
Daniel Mendez de Camino y Garcia de Leon
> From: georgio_2386@hotmail.com
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 10:55:41 -0500
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ana Gómez de Portugal.
>
>
> Hola compañeros de Nuestros Ranchos, ayer me encontré en un problema al estar revisando el registro de bautismo de algunos hijos del Alcalde de Santa María de los Lagos Francisco Rodríguez y de su mujer Ana Gómez de Portugal.
>
>
>
> En mi base de datos tenía que los padres de Ana Gómez de Portugal eran el Capitán Juan Gómez de Portugal y María de Isassi; datos que me proporcionó
Hello all,
I am Cecilia Placencia. My father, Nicolas Placencia, was born in San Francisco de los Sotoles, Jalisco, Mexico in 1943. He and his parents, Andres Placencia and Maria Salvadora Marqu
Does anyone have info on Josepha Hernandez Dominguez
who married Sebastian Macias Valadez on 5 Feb 1680
in Aguascalientes, the marriage record does not list their
parents.
Daniel,
Es posible que Sebastian Macias Valades es hermano de Juan Macias Valades, hijo de Joseph Macias Valades y Catalina de la Vega. Juan se caso con Juana (Hernandez) Dominguez, hija de Juan Hernandez y Ana Dominguez, en Aguascalientes el 12 junio 1683. Por lo tanto, Josepha Hernandez Dominguez seria hermana de Juana. Curiosamente, Juan MV y Juana D, tuvieron un hijo Sebastian Macias Valades.
Jaime Alvarado
Si es posible, Hernandez Dominguez es obviamente HErnandez Gamino = Dominguez.
Pero necesitamos evidencia, porque hay varios. Si podiamos encontrar el bautismo
de Sebastian....Tambien la madre de Joseph MAcias Valadez era Josepha Alvarez
quien varios descendientes adoptaron el apellido Alvarez. Y Sebastiana tiene
una Josepha MAcias Valadez. Voy a ver con mas estudio.
Daniel Mendez de Camino y Garcia de Leon
> Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2010 02:49:08 +0000
> From: alvaradj@comcast.net
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Dead Ends
>
> Daniel,
> Es posible que Sebastian Macias Valades es hermano de Juan Macias Valades, hijo de Joseph Macias Valades y Catalina de la Vega. Juan se caso con Juana (Hernandez) Dominguez, hija de Juan Hernandez y Ana Dominguez, en Aguascalientes el 12 junio 1683. Por lo tanto, Josepha Hernandez Dominguez seria hermana de Juana. Curiosamente, Juan MV y Juana D, tuvieron un hijo Sebastian Macias Valades.
>
>
> Jaime
AUnque no encontre la informacion matrimonial ya que varios registros faltan o estan perdidos
Encontre 6 hijos de Sebastian Macias Valadez y JOsepha Dominguez Hernandez
4 de ellos son los mismos nombres de 4 antepasados, tuvieron PEdro, Ursula, Catalina, Antonio.
Quien serian los antepasados, Pedro ALonso de los Hinojos, Ursula Alvarez, Catalina Tavera de la Vega
y Antonio Ramirez de Tavera. Pienso que seria seguro que Sebastian es hijo de Joseph Macias Valadez
y Catalina Tavera de la Vega. Lo mismo que con Josepha, ya que sabesmos que es Hernandez Dominguez
(Hernandez Gamino=Dominguez). Josepha era hija de Juan Hernandez Gamino y Ana Dominguez. Otro
dato que ayuda con esto es que la hija de Sebastian MAcias y Josepha Dominguez (Hernandez)
que se llamo Getrudis era conocido como Gertrudis Dominguez y la vez su madre Josepha, esposa
de Sebastian, Josepha Dominguez. Ya sabemos que Dominguez era muy popular para las mujeres
de os Hernandez Gamino y Alonso de los Hinojos
Daniel,
Do you have the names of Catalina de la Vega and of Joseph Macias Valades. I've never been able to find their marriage information. You also attach Tavera to Catalina. I would be extremely interested in getting additional information on this couple.
Jaime
I'll have to see my sources but I believe it might have been through a will or a dispensa,
I found Catalina Tavera de la Vega was baptized 9 december 1635 in Lagos de Moreno,
I belive their marrage info will be in Lagos de Moreno records. She was daughter
of Antonio Ramirez de Tavera and Leonor Rubio. Joseph Macias Valadez was baptized
17 august 1623 in Aguascalientes, son of Alonso Macias valadez and Ursula Alvarez,
Ursula's last name was popular among several female descendants so you'll see them occasionally.
This is another reason why I know Joseph's parents are these, Alvarez was passed down
from Ursula to Joseph's and Catalina's daughter Josepha Alvarez who married Antonio de Cuellar
on 29 nov `1681 in Aguascalientes.
Daniel Mendez de Camino y Garcia de Leon
> Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 04:03:28 +0000
> From: alvaradj@comcast.net
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Dead Ends
>
> Daniel,
> Do you have the names of Catalina de la Vega
I seemed to have screwed up here, not on Joseph MAcias, I got his line down correctly
but on Catalina, some reason I have confused two Catalina de la Vega, in the death of
record of Joseph Macias' daughter, Ursula Alvarez, named after her grandmother another
who used Alvarez, the priest appears to have listed her parents as JOseph Alvarez Macias
and Catalina Duran Vega, their still might be a possibility that I might still have
Catalina;s parents right, Ive seen Duran somewhere else with this family but cant recall
at the moment. So now the right thing to do is question Catalina's ancestry. Ill have to
remove her parents in my paf for now, il just make a note "In research." I stil wonder
how I got her parents, there had to be a record pointing me to this direction, I dont
just link random people for no reason. Uh this is going to bother me for a while, but like it,
makesme work even hard to find this line.
Daniel Mendez de Camino y Garcia de Leon
> Date: Mon, 19 Jul
One family of the duran sometimes showed up with a different last name then later because the parents did not marry until after the fifth child. They continued having many children after marrying.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: Daniel Mendez de Camino y Garcia de Leon
Sender: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2010 21:51:31
To: Patty Hoyos
Reply-To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Dead Ends
I seemed to have screwed up here, not on Joseph MAcias, I got his line down correctly
but on Catalina, some reason I have confused two Catalina de la Vega, in the death of
record of Joseph Macias' daughter, Ursula Alvarez, named after her grandmother another
who used Alvarez, the priest appears to have listed her parents as JOseph Alvarez Macias
and Catalina Duran Vega, their still might be a possibility that I might still have
Catalina;s parents right, Ive seen Duran somewhere else with
For Paul Gomez and those researching Bartholome RENDON,
I came across a one page document about him in the Pilot Site:
Mex Catholic Church Records, Images Only
Ags Ags Sagrario Info Mat 1710, Image 36
There was a very special situation to consider the children of "padres no conocidos"
As you maybe know the enslavement was passed on to offspring only by the maternal route, ie the children of a slave man were not slaves if the mother was not. but the children of a slave woman had no doubt his destiny as slaves.
Since mid-1600, practically slaves were destined for spinsterhood for obvious reasons, however many slaves were sons and daughters, and a common action in these cases was that the mother left the newborn exhibitors, with the hope that it would collected and not recognized as a slave, which is not always true, as some children of "Padres no conocidos" were recorded in the baptismal register as a slave to Mr "X", when it was known that one of the slaves of a certain Mr was pregnant and could not miss the opportunity to increase their assets: a slave was worth 800 pesos gold (
Mario Gomez Mata has a interesting book about the slavement in Santa Maria de los Lagos called "la
Paul
There are two entries for this couple in the Matrimonial Investigations for Aguascalientes (go to the Family Search Pilot website; church records for Aguascalientes, Sagrario).
In the volume for 1676/1710, go to image 214; in the volume for 1710, go to image 36.
Maria's parents are named, but Bartholome is "Padres no conosidos."
George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA
Thank you, George! I had the "Image 36" Record, but not the first Record
cited in your e-mail. "Padres no conosidos" in my opinion are the 3 most
dreaded words to family history researchers. Was he born out of wedlock, or
did he not want to recognize his parents? Would he have been compelled to
make this information known to the officiating priest?
-----Original Message-----
From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of
gpf13@aol.com
Sent: Saturday, July 17, 2010 7:42 AM
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] RENDON, Bartholome = MASIAS VALADES, Maria
Paul
There are two entries for this couple in the Matrimonial Investigations for
Aguascalientes (go to the Family Search Pilot website; church records for
Aguascalientes, Sagrario).
In the volume for 1676/1710, go to image 214; in the volume for 1710, go to
image 36.
Maria's parents are named, but Bartholome is "Padres no conosidos."
Paul - That is a very interesting take on "padres no conosidos". I always
assumed that it referred to an orphaned child who's parents were not known.
It never occurred to me that it could have been information that was
intentionally withheld. I guess it could be possible but not easy to prove.
And yes - they are the three most dreaded words for a genealogist.
Interesting.
-Angelina-
I have found parents even after the dreaded "padres no conocidos" so do not give up hope. I did this by researching for siblings and then looking at their data. Doing it this way I have found both sets of parents but sometimes only one parent is confirmed and there is a question of who the other parent is. I have found that many excellent, highly respected genealogists have made the mistake of automatically assuming the second parent when later it comes out that the child was from a second marriage or out of marriage relationship. Actually, I know I have made this error before and am very careful now when I look at my sources.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: "Paul J Gomez"
Sender: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2010 10:12:54
To:
Reply-To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] RENDON, Bartholome = MASIAS VALADES, Maria
Thank you, George! I had the "Image 36" Record, but not the
Also another take on Padres no conocidos: It could also mean the priest did not know who the
parents were, maybe they were out of his parish. I have an experience with Padres no conocidos,
where one records says padres no concidos, but because they were veiled in another location,
his parents were stated saying he was originario del Parral (Hidalgo del Parral), Chihuahua,
as stated I was able to locate my ancestors baptismal record of "padres no concidos in Parral).
Just my experience. The Rendon/Gomez Rendon family is from Teocaltiche, but not sure why
Bartolome's parents weren't mentioned, he is espanol thats for sure. You just have to keep looking
around for clues, another clue would be to find a Bartolome Rendon baptized around there, maybe
look for his death record.
Daniel Mendez de Camino y Garcia de Leon
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: gpf13@aol.com
> Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2010 07:41:59 -0700
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] RENDON, Bartholome =
My Lugo and texeda ancestors are listed in Jalos records as padres no conocidos by the priest with the priest giving the reason that they were originally from out of the area of jalos - and from Theocaltiche.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: Daniel Mendez de Camino y Garcia de Leon
Sender: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2010 11:23:15
To: Patty Hoyos
Reply-To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] RENDON, Bartholome = MASIAS VALADES, Maria
Also another take on Padres no conocidos: It could also mean the priest did not know who the
parents were, maybe they were out of his parish. I have an experience with Padres no conocidos,
where one records says padres no concidos, but because they were veiled in another location,
his parents were stated saying he was originario del Parral (Hidalgo del Parral), Chihuahua,
as stated I was able to locate my ancestors baptismal record of "padres no
We also have to look at the time era, where marriages were the most important
even because it could ties certain families together etc. Maybe his parents did not
approve and like someone prevoous stated did not want to recognize his parents.
Daniel Mendez de Camino y Garcia de Leon
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: gpf13@aol.com
> Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2010 07:41:59 -0700
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] RENDON, Bartholome = MASIAS VALADES, Maria
>
> Paul
>
> There are two entries for this couple in the Matrimonial Investigations for Aguascalientes (go to the Family Search Pilot website; church records for Aguascalientes, Sagrario).
>
> In the volume for 1676/1710, go to image 214; in the volume for 1710, go to image 36.
>
> Maria's parents are named, but Bartholome is "Padres no conosidos."
>
> George Fulton
> Pleasanton, CA
Something cool, Bartolome Rendon did sign that document so we have his
signature! Interesting enough the document states "como mas aia lugar en
derecho" not sure what this means but havent seen this before. Maybe
Bartoome did not name his parents. I would bet money his parents
could be Francisco Gomez Rendon and Maria (Alvarez de Luna) aka Maria de Luna.
These were the patriarchs of the Rendon family in Los Altos. But obviously
we need to work on this a bit more, most of the conections of early Aguascalientes
marriage do not mentioned parents many are by this manner, by narrowing down
things and other such menthods.
Daniel Mendez de Camino y Garcia de Leon
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: gpf13@aol.com
> Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2010 07:41:59 -0700
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] RENDON, Bartholome = MASIAS VALADES, Maria
>
> Paul
>
> There are two entries for this couple in the Matrimonial Investigations for Aguascalientes (go to the Family Search Pilot
What does "que no resulto impedimiento" mean?
Bartolome Rendon "que no resulto impedimiento en Teocaltiche,
so they married in Aguascalientes because the priest in Teocaltiche
would not marry them there?
Daniel Mendez de Camino y Garcia de Leon
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: gpf13@aol.com
> Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2010 07:41:59 -0700
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] RENDON, Bartholome = MASIAS VALADES, Maria
>
> Paul
>
> There are two entries for this couple in the Matrimonial Investigations for Aguascalientes (go to the Family Search Pilot website; church records for Aguascalientes, Sagrario).
>
> In the volume for 1676/1710, go to image 214; in the volume for 1710, go to image 36.
>
> Maria's parents are named, but Bartholome is "Padres no conosidos."
>
> George Fulton
> Pleasanton, CA
I think it means that there was no impediment, no reason for the couple to not get married, i. e. no one objected to the union for any reason, so the marriage ceremony proceeded.
Emilie
Port Orchard, WA
> From: mendezdelcamino@live.com
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2010 11:47:35 -0700
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] RENDON, Bartholome = MASIAS VALADES, Maria
>
>
> What does "que no resulto impedimiento" mean?
>
> Bartolome Rendon "que no resulto impedimiento en Teocaltiche,
>
> so they married in Aguascalientes because the priest in Teocaltiche
>
> would not marry them there?
>
>
>
> Daniel Mendez de Camino y Garcia de Leon
>
>
>
>
> > To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> > From: gpf13@aol.com
> > Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2010 07:41:59 -0700
> > Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] RENDON, Bartholome = MASIAS VALADES, Maria
> >
> > Paul
> >
> > There are two entries for this couple in the Matrimonial Investigations for Aguascalientes (go to the
I think its just interesting that then no one objected in Teocaltiche and they married in Aguascalientes.
Daniel Mendez de Camino y Garcia de Leon
> From: auntyemfaustus@hotmail.com
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2010 11:52:17 -0700
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] RENDON, Bartholome = MASIAS VALADES, Maria
>
>
> I think it means that there was no impediment, no reason for the couple to not get married, i. e. no one objected to the union for any reason, so the marriage ceremony proceeded.
>
>
>
> Emilie
>
> Port Orchard, WA
>
> > From: mendezdelcamino@live.com
> > To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> > Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2010 11:47:35 -0700
> > Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] RENDON, Bartholome = MASIAS VALADES, Maria
> >
> >
> > What does "que no resulto impedimiento" mean?
> >
> > Bartolome Rendon "que no resulto impedimiento en Teocaltiche,
> >
> > so they married in Aguascalientes because the priest in Teocaltiche
> >
> > would not marry
Actually maybe there was an impedimiento elsewhere but not in teocaltiche and went there for approval. Then once they rec'd approval married elsewhere.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: Daniel Mendez de Camino y Garcia de Leon
Sender: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2010 13:01:28
To: Patty Hoyos
Reply-To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] RENDON, Bartholome = MASIAS VALADES, Maria
I think its just interesting that then no one objected in Teocaltiche and they married in Aguascalientes.
Daniel Mendez de Camino y Garcia de Leon
> From: auntyemfaustus@hotmail.com
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2010 11:52:17 -0700
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] RENDON, Bartholome = MASIAS VALADES, Maria
>
>
> I think it means that there was no impediment, no reason for the couple to not get married, i. e. no one objected to the union for any reason, so the marriage
Que no resulto impedimiento would mean that there was no reason that would block the marriage and therefore could marry. They may have married in Aguasclientes for other reasons.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: Daniel Mendez de Camino y Garcia de Leon
Sender: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2010 11:47:35
To: Patty Hoyos
Reply-To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] RENDON, Bartholome = MASIAS VALADES, Maria
What does "que no resulto impedimiento" mean?
Bartolome Rendon "que no resulto impedimiento en Teocaltiche,
so they married in Aguascalientes because the priest in Teocaltiche
would not marry them there?
Daniel Mendez de Camino y Garcia de Leon
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: gpf13@aol.com
> Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2010 07:41:59 -0700
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] RENDON, Bartholome = MASIAS VALADES, Maria
>
> Paul
>
> There are two entries for this
EN LAS ULTIMAS SEMANAS HE NOTADO QUE MUCHOS DE LOS POSTS QUE DEJAN O ENVIAN LOS MIEMBROS DEL GRUPO SE DESAPARECEN, NO SE PUEDEN ENCONTRAR.
¿ALGUIEN MAS LO HA NOTADO?
Gracias Arturo.
¿Que sería de está pagina y de este grupo sin tu ayuda?...
Miguel Beltran
Miguel:
Parece que habia un problema con el servidor que no estaba tomando los mensajes de la lista para subirlos al sitio. Hemos subido todos esos mensajes (del ultimo mes) y los hemos subido manualmente y parece que hemos arreglado el problema con el servidor.
Seguiremos monitoreando la situacion pero si ves que pasa de nuevo, dejanos saber.
Gracias por arreglar esto.
Daniel Mendez de Camino y Garcia de Leon
_________________________________________________________________
The New Busy think 9 to 5 is a cute idea. Combine multiple calendars with Hotmail.
http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?tile=multicalendar&ocid=…
Miguel y todos,
a la otra vez que mandas algo al grupo y no llega. manda el mismo
mensaje exacto la segunda vez y en esa haga el BCC o CC a
joseph@nuestrosranchos.org (despues mandame otra email con explicacion
que el mensaje nunca llego)
perdon esta contestacion tarde pero estube afuera de la casa.
joseph
======================
Joseph Puentes
NoMeat@h2opodcast.com
http://h2opodcast.com/vsse.html (Vegan Environmental Solutions Podcast)
http://h2opodcast.com (Environmental Podcast)
http://h2opodcast.blogspot.com (Blog for above)
http://PleaseListenToYourMom.com (Women's Peace Podcast)
http://NuestraFamiliaUnida.com (Latin American History Podcast)
http://nuestrosranchos.org (Jalisco, Zacatecas, and Aguascalientes
Genealogy)
EN LAS ULTIMAS SEMANAS HE NOTADO QUE MUCHOS DE LOS POSTS QUE DEJAN O ENVIAN LOS MIEMBROS DEL GRUPO SE DESAPARECEN, NO SE PUEDEN ENCONTRAR.
¿ALGUIEN MAS LO HA NOTADO?
Hello,
I am looking for the ancestors of Rafael Abalos Esparza baptized 26 Apr 1786 in Lagos de Moreno. He is the son of Andres Abalos and Rita Rosalia Esparza.
Antonio Avalos and Juana Guzman had a daughter named Gertrudis
baptized 31 Jul 1700 in Lagos. I hop this helps with something?
Daniel Mendez de Camino y Garcia de Leon
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail has tools for the New Busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox.
http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL…
At least that's another baptismal record I can look at if the marriage
record of Antonio Avalos and Juana Guzman or the baptismal record of
Leonardo Avalos isn't legible. What's interesting is the pilot search and
the fsbeta search don't have Gertrudis Avalos as a result unless the search
is extremely vague or the date 1700 is used, and when she is in the results
it doesn't have the mother's surname. How were you able to determine that
the mother's surname is Guzman?
Armando
2010/7/16 Daniel Mendez de Camino y Garcia de Leon
>
> Antonio Avalos and Juana Guzman had a daughter named Gertrudis
>
> baptized 31 Jul 1700 in Lagos. I hop this helps with something?
>
>
>
> Daniel Mendez de Camino y Garcia de Leon
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Hotmail has tools for the New Busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your
> inbox.
>
> http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL…
Yo soy estoy enteresado.
El libro esta a la venta en Borderlands Bookstore
http://www.borderlandsbooks.com/searchdb.asp
Item # 757
Miguel Beltran
Reading the posts and the interchangability of surnames found in the 16 and 1700's, has anyone found the surnames of De la Garza and Garcia to be interchangeable from one event to another? Than
Alice,
I am going to offer a possible explanation to the Garcia-Garza apparent interchange. As you many known, the surname Garcia and de La Garza are extremely common in Nuevo Leon, Mexico, particularly in Monterrey and surrounding areas. In my maternal line, I've got several generations of de La Garza grooms marrying Garcia brides with the reverse in the next generation (i.e., groom Garcia with a Garza bride; cousins of course). Given that it was common in the 1600's and 1700's for sons use the father's surname and daughters to adopt the mother's surname, the appearance that these two surnames were interchangeable would appear, as childrens names would not match necessarily with that of the father.
Just an idea
Jaime Alvarado
You are exactly right! It's my De la Garza's and Garza Falcon's of Nuevo Leon that are giving me a hard time!!!! Thanks so much, Alice
--- On Fri, 7/16/10, Jaime R. Alvarado wrote:
From: Jaime R. Alvarado
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Garza/Garcia
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Friday, July 16, 2010, 3:11 AM
Alice,
I am going to offer a possible explanation to the Garcia-Garza apparent interchange. As you many known, the surname Garcia and de La Garza are extremely common in Nuevo Leon, Mexico, particularly in Monterrey and surrounding areas. In my maternal line, I've got several generations of de La Garza grooms marrying Garcia brides with the reverse in the next generation (i.e., groom Garcia with a Garza bride; cousins of course). Given that it was common in the 1600's and 1700's for sons use the father's surname and daughters to adopt the mother's surname, the appearance that these two surnames were interchangeable would appear, as childrens names would not
I found a person surnamed Garcia to be the son or daughter, I don' remember which, of a Garces.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: Alice Blake
Sender: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 17:00:41
To:
Reply-To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Garza/Garcia
Reading the posts and the interchangability of surnames found in the 16 and 1700's, has anyone found the surnames of De la Garza and Garcia to be interchangeable from one event to another? Thanks so much, Alice
Back in the 1700's it's amazing how many changes a person's name could have from birth, marriage, parenthood, etc.
--- On Fri, 7/16/10, mygenes2000@yahoo.com wrote:
From: mygenes2000@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Garza/Garcia
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Friday, July 16, 2010, 1:06 AM
I found a person surnamed Garcia to be the son or daughter, I don' remember which, of a Garces.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: Alice Blake
Sender: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 17:00:41
To:
Reply-To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Garza/Garcia
Reading the posts and the interchangability of surnames found in the 16 and 1700's, has anyone found the surnames of De la Garza and Garcia to be interchangeable from one event to another? Thanks so much, Alice
Tendrá alguien informacion sobre nacimientos y matrimonios en Sain Alto, ya que por mi lado paterno, tengo ancestros de esa region. BRUNO HERNANDEZ PEREZ b) 1880
No he logrado ninguna información sobre mi abuelo en Sain Alto....nació en 1880 .....Bruno Hernandez Perez....agradezco la ayuda......
Hola, Amanda,
Hay un Bruno Hernandez, Casado con una Jesus Gonzalez que tubieron un hijo que se llama Enrique Hernandez, y nacio el 6 de oct 1907
no se si sea ese Bruno que buscas, pero si no es pasa los datos de sus hijos y alomejor te puedo ayudar o si tienes mas informacion de el dime y alomejor te ayudo.
Martha Gomez
----- Original Message -----
From: amandamarycela@yahoo.com
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Monday, June 7, 2010 6:43:14 PM GMT -07:00 US/Canada Mountain
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Sain Alto Zac.
No he logrado ninguna información sobre mi abuelo en Sain Alto....nació en 1880 .....Bruno Hernandez Perez....agradezco la ayuda......
Hola ....gracias por ayudarme.....
BRUNO HERNANDEZ PEREZ b) en Sain Alto Zac , segun ...en 1880 hijo de JESUS HERNANDEZ y CARMEN PEREZ ( DE ELLOS NO TENGO NADA )
BRUNO HERNADEZ PEREZ + 1908 Aguascalientes MARIA DOLORES BUCK ELIZALDE, hija de:
CARLOS BUCK + 1874 Aguascalientes MACEDONIA ELIZALDE SALAS
MACEDONIA b) 12 septiembre 1849 Guadalcazar S.L.P. hija de : GREGORIO ELIZALDE BAÑUELOS + 1848 Aguascalientes ANACLETA SALAS (de ella no tengo nada)
GREGORIO b) aprox 1823 Guadalcazar......hijo de JOSE EDUARDO ELIZALDE b) Guadalcazar ...+ 25 junio 1816 PETRA BAÑUELOS POSADAS b) 5 mayo 1792 Guadalcazar
PETRA....hija de JUAN JOSE BAÑUELOS + MARIA TIBURCIA POSADAS b) 15 agosto 1755 Guadalcazar.
Es todo lo que tengo....si alguien tiene algo ....se los agradezco infinitamente
saludos Amanda
Encontre que Carlos Buck y Macedonia ELIZALDE SALAS tuvo JOSEPHA LUISA BUCK ELIZALDe que se bautizo
18 mar 1878 en Lagos de Moreno, Maria Aurora Barabara BUCK bautizada 4 dec
1882 en Silao, Guanajuato. RODOLFO BUCH ELIZALDe 15 feb 1877 en Silao.
Maria de la Concepcion BUCH 16 feb 1869 en Silao, Gto., Luego por fin Maria
Epifania e los dolores Buch bautizada 18 abril 1886 in Silao. Tambien tuvieron
un Carlos Buch ELIZALDE casado en el DF en 17 julio 1889 en San Sebastian
CIudad de Mexico con Eugenia Cochegrus hija de Eugenio Cochegrus y Sebasitna
Rascon. BUCH es apellido Aleman y no es imposible esta linea. Hay mucho aleman
en Mexico. Parece que Cochegrus y Rascon podia ser frances.
Daniel Mendez de Camino y Garcia de Leon
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: amandamarycela@yahoo.com
> Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 11:33:25 -0700
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Sain Alto Zac.
>
>
> Hola ....gracias por ayudarme.....
>
> BRUNO HERNANDEZ PEREZ b) en Sain Alto Zac
En el registro del acta de bautizmo de María Hortencia Buck Elizalde el 06 de agosto de 1880 en Silao, Guanajuato menciona que es Carlos Buck es francés.
L.C.P. Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.
Tepatitlán de Morelos, Jalisco, México.
Tel.: 3781095311
www.facebook.com/jorgeluis.ramirezgomez
_________________________________________________________________
¿Qué signigica Messenger para ti?
www.vivirmessenger.com
No encontre la Hortencia Buch, en varios registros parece como BUCH que es libro
en aleman. Tambien Frances es posible hay bastante Frances en Mexico.
Daniel Mendez de Camino y Garcia de Leon
> From: georgio_2386@hotmail.com
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 15:30:39 -0500
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Sain Alto Zac.
>
>
> En el registro del acta de bautizmo de María Hortencia Buck Elizalde el 06 de agosto de 1880 en Silao, Guanajuato menciona que es Carlos Buck es francés.
>
> L.C.P. Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.
> Tepatitlán de Morelos, Jalisco, México.
> Tel.: 3781095311
> www.facebook.com/jorgeluis.ramirezgomez
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> ¿Qué signigica Messenger para ti?
> www.vivirmessenger.com
http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#alivePlaceLoc1=Me…
L.C.P. Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.
Tepatitlán de Morelos, Jalisco, México.
Tel.: 3781095311
www.facebook.com/jorgeluis.ramirezgomez
> From: mendezdelcamino@live.com
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 13:34:25 -0700
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Sain Alto Zac.
>
>
> No encontre la Hortencia Buch, en varios registros parece como BUCH que es libro
>
> en aleman. Tambien Frances es posible hay bastante Frances en Mexico.
>
>
>
> Daniel Mendez de Camino y Garcia de Leon
>
>
>
>
> > From: georgio_2386@hotmail.com
> > To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> > Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 15:30:39 -0500
> > Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Sain Alto Zac.
> >
> >
> > En el registro del acta de bautizmo de María Hortencia Buck Elizalde el 06 de agosto de 1880 en Silao
Hola Daniel y Jorge Luis.....Carlos Buck Schmidt, ( mi bisabuelo ) nació en Strasburgo, pero sucede que esa región en ocasiones era francesa, y en otras era alemana, pero por los apellidos era de origen aleman, nacido en Francia, en la región de Alsacia y Lorena.
De Eugenio Cochegrus, según platicas de mi abuela Dolores, vino en el mismo barco de Europa que mi bisabuelo Carlos, en donde nació una amistad que culminó con el matrimonio de Carlos Buck Elizalde, con Eugenia Cochegrus Rascon.
Este es otra de las cosas que me falta investigar: en que barco llegaron a Mexico y a que puerto, y en que fecha.
Si saben algo más, no dejen de decirmelo, les agradezco mucho la información que me han dado......sólo me falta más de la esposa de Carlos Buck....MACEDONIA ELIZALDE,
que en el acta de bautizo de mi padre, dice LIZALDI.
Y por supuesto de mi abuelo BRUNO HERNANDEZ PEREZ de Sain Alto Zac. que de acuerdo al acta de nacimiento de mi padre, nació en 1882.
Nuevamente muchas gracias
He trabajado con los Cochegrus. Que necesitas de ellos?
Daniel Mendez de Camino y Garcia de Leon
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: amandamarycela@yahoo.com
> Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 08:56:47 -0700
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Sain Alto Zac.
>
>
> Hola Daniel y Jorge Luis.....Carlos Buck Schmidt, ( mi bisabuelo ) nació en Strasburgo, pero sucede que esa región en ocasiones era francesa, y en otras era alemana, pero por los apellidos era de origen aleman, nacido en Francia, en la región de Alsacia y Lorena.
>
> De Eugenio Cochegrus, según platicas de mi abuela Dolores, vino en el mismo barco de Europa que mi bisabuelo Carlos, en donde nació una amistad que culminó con el matrimonio de Carlos Buck Elizalde, con Eugenia Cochegrus Rascon.
>
> Este es otra de las cosas que me falta investigar: en que barco llegaron a Mexico y a que puerto, y en que fecha.
>
> Si saben algo más, no dejen de decirmelo, les agradezco mucho la información que me han dado......sólo me
Encontre un Bruno en Zacatecas, esta poco lejos de Sain Alto pero nunca es imposible.
No tienes mas datos de esta linea, la esposa de Bruno, etc?
Name: Jose Bruno Hernandez Perez
Gender: Male
Baptism/Christening Date: 10 Oct 1874
Baptism/Christening Place: SANTA MARIA MECATABASCO,VILLA DEL REFUGIO,ZACATECAS,MEXICO
Birth Date:
Birthplace:
Death Date:
Name Note:
Race:
Father's Name: Claudio Hernandez
Father's Birthplace:
Father's Age:
Mother's Name: Ma. Matilde Perez
Mother's Birthplace:
Mother's Age:
Paternal Grandfather's Name:
Paternal Grandmother's Name:
Maternal Grandfather's Name:
Maternal Grandmother's name:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C60539-3
System Origin: Mexico-ODM
Source Film Number: 1094630
Reference Number:
Collection: Mexico Baptisms, 1560-1950
Daniel Mendez de Camino y Garcia de Leon
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: amandamarycela@yahoo.com
> Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 08:56:47 -0700
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Sain Alto Zac
Mira Daniel, los padres de Bruno son: JESUS HERNANDEZ y CARMEN PEREZ , de ella yo recuerdo cuando era niña....uuuuuuuu, que decian que había venido del Perú. Eso es todo lo que sé de mi abuelo y bisabuelos.
He logrado obtener informacion de los Elizalde en Guadalcazar SLP, pero a partir de el matrimonio de José Eduardo Elizalde el 25 de junio de 1816 con Petra Bañuelos Gracian, que nace el 5 de mayo de 1792, hija de José Bañuelos y Ma. Josefa Gracian .ya no encontré nada......alguien tendrá informacion sobre estos personajes. Me interesa para saber si tienen relación con los Ochoa de Elizalde que vienen a Monterrey y villas circunvecinas......Marin, Pesquería Chica, Higueras.
I have these kids for this couple: It looks like your Josepha Gracian also used thename de luna. This is good their marriage record is found below. You shouldorder it to extend your line. Hope this helps. -Daniel
1. MARIA PETRA BANUELOS GRACIAN - International Genealogical Index / ME
Gender: Female Christening: 03 FEB 1803 Tepechitlan, Zacatecas, Mexico
2. JOSE ANTONINO BANUELOS GRACIAN - International Genealogical Index / ME
Gender: Male Christening: 10 MAY 1820 Tepechitlan, Zacatecas, Mexico
3. FRANCISCO XAVIER VIVIANO BANUELOS GRACIAN - International Genealogical Index / ME
Gender: Male Christening: 05 DEC 1805 Tepechitlan, Zacatecas, Mexico
4. JOSEF MARIA ALBINO BANUELOS GRACIAN - International Genealogical Index / ME
Gender: Male Christening: 18 DEC 1809 Tepechitlan, Zacatecas, Mexico
5. JUSTO VISENTE RUFINO BANUELOS GRACIAN - International Genealogical Index / ME
Gender: Male Christening: 23 JUL 1811 Tepechitlan, Zacatecas, Mexico
2. Maria Dominga BANUELOS DE LUNA - Vital
Amanda:
Parece que la biblioteca de Historia Familiar tiene microfilmes de esa localidad, aunque parece que a los archivos les faltan varios a~os. De cualquier modo, los bautismos de 1880 si estan ahi... toca pedir el rollo ya que no parece haber indices en IGI, segun la base de datos de rollos de Nuestros Ranchos...
http://www.familysearch.org/eng/library/fhlcatalog/supermainframeset.as…++
El registro civil para esa localidad si parece estar completo pero comienza solamente en el a~o 1862.
Estrada Bocanegra