TEST SITE - DO NOT USE - Development only

Where is St. Xavier's? I don't recall ever hearing the name. I used to go to Sacred Heart and then after we moved when I was 8 to Little Flower (over by Lakeside Shopping Center) and finally to St. Joseph's which was the closest Catholic church near our house when we lived near 5 points. Don't y'all just love this conversation? I do! Marge:)

On Jun 29, 2005, at 10:06 AM, Alberto Duarte wrote:

Jose, you can probably find or contact your Macias
clan members in El Paso if you go to the old
neighborhood and search for them.  

Your grandfather was probably well know in the old
barrio.  My uncle Jesus Duarte still lives in the old
barrio and he probably knew some of your relatives.

As far as finding your Macias family in Zacatecas, you
can find them if you have a plan.  I found many of my
Duarte ancestors by tracing them them from Mapimi,
Durango, to Jerez, Zacatecas, and eventually, to other
parts of Zacatecas.  In fact, I believe my
greatggggfather was probably the patriarch of the
Duarte clan in Zacatecas!

Use the Mormon library to gather your genealogical
information.  Get a microfiche copy of all the Macias
in Zacatecas and start researching them one by one,
starting with those with the same first and last name
of your grandfather's.  

Don't over look any Macias, no matter what part of
Zacatecas they came from.  Believe me, the chance of
you being related to them is very good.  

Good luck.

Also, please let me know if I can help you in any way.

--- zendean <usa20@...> wrote:

Albeto.

> Alberto;
> 
>     What an interesting memory!  My Grandparents,
> (Feliciano and Rosa 
> Macias) donated the land to the church on which St.
> Xavier Catholic church 
> was built. Most of my aunts and uncles were married
> there. I was looking for 
> a relative and found the name in the records of
> marriage there. My Aunt 
> Aurora told me that it was not surprising and that I
> would find her and her 
> sisters there also. That was news to me.
> 
>     My grandparents lived and died there in El Paso.
> My Macias line starts 
> there for me and it was nice to see your entry about
> that area. My dad, 
> Felix Macias, met and married my mom here in Los
> Angeles. I have never been 
> to El Paso, though most all of my branch of the
> Macias line still lives 
> there. I don't know where my El Paso relatives live
> there and know no one 
> there that could tell me where to look. I have a
> brick wall where it comes 
> to my great grand father -Francisco Macias because
> he is from somewhere in 
> Zacatecas. He had a ranch/farm there and that is all
> my aunt Aurora could 
> remember from her childhood.
> 
>     Anyway, I liked reading your recollections and
> hope you will respond to 
> my posting. I do extraction of records for our

Gloria

She send you an E-mail and says no reply recieved. You
can send mail at this address. 

Jose

--- glo Sandoval-Fuentes <gloriafuentes@...>
wrote:

> Jose 3 of your spouses names are my names also, is
> she on this group also?
> 
> gloria
> 
>                ~~glo~~
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From: jose munoz <jmunoz2781@...>
> Reply-To: ranchos@yahoogroups.com
> To: ranchos@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [ranchos] Racial Classifications
> Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 23:24:50 -0700 (PDT)
> 
> I'm new to this group and read many of the groups
> messages.. In my family lines there were hijo and
> hijas naturales along with hijo/hijas legitimos. For
> example 3 naturals out of family 12. I have a copy
> of
> the Church Marriage Record.... so why a natural
> baptism for 3 of them. I have a gggrandfather
> baptized
> as a Don? Why at birth is someone named a don? Heir
> apparent? Laborers, Sirvientes, miners.
> 
> I have a family line who think they are French. Why?
> Because of Grandma's Green eyes! The truth of the
> matters is they can not accept the fact they are
> Indian decent mixed with espanoles.
> 
> I'm Mexican, born and raised in the U.S., and I'm
> proud to be Mexican. My 4th greatgrandfather was
> espanol. His brothers and sisters married
> espanoles/las. But Ysidro Munoz married an Yndia. My
> 3th Great, Roque Munoz 1760, a mestizo was at times
> recorded on Bautismo records as espanol, coyote, and
> lobo? Why such a thing? They were from Rancho de
> Banon, Zac., 2nd great Francisco Munoz 1786 a
> mestizo,
> from Hacienda de Grunidora, 1st great Teofilo Munoz
> 1817, from Hacienda Grunidora, SLP, no race given,
> and
> my granfather Jose Angel Munoz Ybarra 1886, Hacienda
> De Solis, SLP, my line from 3rd marriage of
> Teofilo{age 69.. yes age 69}. My father Elpidio
> Munoz
> b. 1906  Hacienda de Solis, SLP. This is why I'm
> Mexican. My roots...
> 
> 
> Me: MUNOZ,YBARRA,TRISTAN,GALVAN...Villa de Cos, San
> Cosme, Burgo de San Cosme, Zacatecas. Grunidora,
> Hacienda Solis...SLP
> My spouse: LUNA, ARELLANO, CORTEZ, CORREA, SANDOVAL,
> CASTANEDA: Tlaltenango, Tepechitlan, Teul,
> Florencia,
> La Estancia, Cerro de Pantano
> 
> We have done our homework and research for nearly
> ten
> years. We still want to learn and share.
> 
> Jose Munoz
> 

Emile, things were so rough for Mexicans in Hollywood
in the 20's thru the 50's, that Mexicans were not
given jobs on the sets, but they were not even allowed
on the grounds!  So for anyone of us to make in
Hollywood at that time, we had to be great and
cunning. That only shows you who are God's chosen
people; but we still have a long ways to go.

Alberto.

--- Emilie Garcia <anatomists@...> wrote:

> Alberto,
> 
> My husband Tony was the great-grandson of guero
> espanol-mexicanos from Jalisco who did well after
> settling in El Paso after 1895. They owned grocery
> stores, butcher shops, taxi companies, bakeries and
> auto repair shops.  Had his parents not divorced, he
> would still be there attending Catholic schools and
> colleges, like his cousins who have remained there
> to this day and are teachers and engineers, etc. 
> Only his great-great-grandfather, his second wife,
> and one son moved to Los Angeles in 1930.  Tony
> tells me that his life in El Paso was great.  He
> lived like a little prince, and all that came to an
> end when his mother became a single mom with three
> kids in Northern California.
> 
> Yes, lots of families moved to California in the
> twenties, thirties and forties and after after the
> war.(WWII)  My father who had immigrated from Jerez,
> Zac. moved us from our farm in Colorado to Northern
> California (San Jose) in 1947 where he could work as
> a welder for Westinghouse and make good money.   
> 
> I think Tony told me that his father, Enrique
> Garcia, had known Anthony Quinn and Gilbert Roland
> (that wasn't his real name) back in the 1920's in El
> Paso and Juarez right before those guys came to
> California.  Those two actors started out in silent
> films and met with lots of prejudice at times, but
> they persevered.  I told Tony that he and his
> brother could have been movie stars too, since they
> were tall and better looking than any of those
> others who have made it in the entertainment world,
> ha, ha.  Yes, one just needs the right environment
> and the luck and help from the right sources in
> order to succeed.   
> 
> Emilie Garcia
> Port Orchard, WA.
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Alberto Duarte
> Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2005 7:43 AM
> To: ranchos@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [ranchos] Pinole
> 
> 

Alberto;

What an interesting memory! My Grandparents, (Feliciano and Rosa
Macias) donated the land to the church on which St. Xavier Catholic church
was built. Most of my aunts and uncles were married there. I was looking for
a relative and found the name in the records of marriage there. My Aunt
Aurora told me that it was not surprising and that I would find her and her
sisters there also. That was news to me.

My grandparents lived and died there in El Paso. My Macias line starts
there for me and it was nice to see your entry about that area. My dad,
Felix Macias, met and married my mom here in Los Angeles. I have never been
to El Paso, though most all of my branch of the Macias line still lives
there. I don't know where my El Paso relatives live there and know no one
there that could tell me where to look. I have a brick wall where it comes
to my great grand father -Francisco Macias because he is from somewhere in
Zacatecas. He had a ranch/farm there and that is all my aunt Aurora could
remember from her childhood.

Anyway, I liked reading your recollections and hope you will respond to
my posting. I do extraction of records for our church and have little time
lately to trace my family. As soon as I finish the 4,000 + names to be
extracted, I will start again. I am thinking that if I pay $500 to the
company called Legacy in Utah that I may get some good help and direction.
Have you heard of them ? If so, what did you hear ?

For now, good hunting and I wish you happiness.

Jose Luis Macias

----- Original Message -----
From: "Alberto Duarte" <albertodua@...>

Hello:

Indeed, Tangancicuaro is a municipio in the state of Michoacan. It 
is located very close to the city of Zamora. Last year, my 
girlfriend and I drove all the way from Jalisco to Patzcuaro, 
Michoacan. We stopped at several places in Michoacan, and one of 
them was the lake of Camecuaro in Tangancicuaro. Beautiful place. 

So Tangancicuaro is not in Jalisco. All names that end up in -cuaro 
have their origin on Purepecha, the ancient language of Michoacan.

By the way, do a google image search on "Tangancicuaro" 
or "Camecuaro" to see the beautiful images in that municipio.

Saludos,

Steve

PS. I apologize for getting out of the target area with this 
message. 

--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, Erlinda Castanon-Long 
<longsjourney@y...> wrote:
> Steve, I caught the name Tangancicuaro in your message.  Is that a 
city or a lake?  I have an ancestor who's marriage record says she 
is from Tangancicuaro and I can't find it in Jalisco? Could this be 
what I've been looking for, a different state!
> thank you, Linda
> 
> "Steve G. Apodaca" <sgapodaca@y...> wrote:
> I checked those CD's, too. The DVD's (Jalisco and Michoacan) give 
a 
> lot of information about some of the ranchos on the states. They 
> missed some places, like Tapalpa and Sayula in Jalisco, or the 
lake of 
> Tangancicuaro in Michoacan, but in general it is worth it. Some 
songs 
> are nice, but they had to chose better performers in some of them.
> 
> --- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "Maria Hilda Mosqueda McGuire" 
> <wlm27mhm@y...> wrote:
> > I want to recommend a CD/DVD I recently purchased from 
Univision.com;
> > It is called Mexico en la Sangre, and they have one on Jalisco,
> > Michoacan and Puebla. I bought the one from Michoacan as my 
granny 
> was
> > born there. It has songs from that state as well a DVD caminos de
> > (city you are interested in) showing the towns in that state, I 
> really
> > enjoyed viewing it and learning a little bit about that 
state.It's
> > like a mini tourist infomercial. Check it out. Hilda
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ---------------------------------
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS 
> 
> 
>     Visit your group "ranchos" on the web.
>   
>     To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>  ranchos-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>   
>     Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of 
Service. 
> 
> 

I checked those CD's, too. The DVD's (Jalisco and Michoacan) give a
lot of information about some of the ranchos on the states. They
missed some places, like Tapalpa and Sayula in Jalisco, or the lake of
Tangancicuaro in Michoacan, but in general it is worth it. Some songs
are nice, but they had to chose better performers in some of them.

--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "Maria Hilda Mosqueda McGuire"
<wlm27mhm@y...> wrote:
> I want to recommend a CD/DVD I recently purchased from Univision.com;
> It is called Mexico en la Sangre, and they have one on Jalisco,
> Michoacan and Puebla. I bought the one from Michoacan as my granny
was
> born there. It has songs from that state as well a DVD caminos de
> (city you are interested in) showing the towns in that state, I
really
> enjoyed viewing it and learning a
little bit about that state.It's
> like a mini tourist infomercial. Check it out. Hilda

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

I checked those CD's, too. The DVD's (Jalisco and Michoacan) give a 
lot of information about some of the ranchos on the states. They 
missed some places, like Tapalpa and Sayula in Jalisco, or the lake of 
Tangancicuaro in Michoacan, but in general it is worth it. Some songs 
are nice, but they had to chose better performers in some of them.

--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "Maria Hilda Mosqueda McGuire" 
<wlm27mhm@y...> wrote:
> I want to recommend a CD/DVD I recently purchased from Univision.com;
> It is called Mexico en la Sangre, and they have one on Jalisco,
> Michoacan and Puebla. I bought the one from Michoacan as my granny 
was
> born there. It has songs from that state as well a DVD caminos de
> (city you are interested in) showing the towns in that state, I 
really
> enjoyed viewing it and learning a little bit about that state.It's
> like a mini tourist infomercial. Check it out. Hilda

I actually heard that song when I was a kid in Mexico, but a little 
bit different. It went something like this:

Acerrin, acerran,
los maderos de San Juan,
piden pan y no les dan,
piden queso y les dan hueso,
se les atora en el pescuezo,
y se ponen a llorar.

Steve A.


--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, Irma GomezLucero <igomezlucero@c...> 
wrote:
> How about the following song sung to children who are sitting on 
your lap,
> being rocked back and forth, while holding on to their arms :
>  
> Riqui ran, riqui ran,
> Los maderos de San Juan, 
> piden pan, no les dan.
> Les dan un palo detras del pezqueso. (this is when you let go of 
one of
> their arms, and do a gentle chopping on the back of their neck)
>  
> My parents have done this with all of their grandchildren.  The 
children
> used to laugh with glee even though they didn't understand Spanish.
>  
> Has anyone else heard this rocking song?
> Just wondering...
> Irma
> 
>   _____  
> 
> From: Emilie Garcia [mailto:auntyemfaustus@h...] 
> Sent: Monday, June 27, 2005 8:59 PM
> To: ranchos@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [ranchos] Atole Song and El Paso
> 
> 
> My husband's great-grandfather came from Jalisco to El Paso in 
1895. My
> husband was born in El Paso in 1935 on Overland Street.  He last 
lived in
> the Alamitos Projects in the Segundo Barrio until his folks 
divorced in 1947
> and his mother moved them to California.
>  
> My husband remembers going with his grandpa "Tata" across to 
Juarez on the
> streetcar to do all those things that some of you remember doing. 
I told my
> husband about the discussions here, and I asked him if he had ever 
had
> atole.  "He said, of course", and he started singing a little song 
about it:
>  
>        -----pasen a tomar atole,
>               todos los que estan pasando,
>               que el alole esta muy bueno,
>       !         y pronto se esta 'cabando----
>  
>             Then he went into a military like cadence, and some of 
the rest
> of the song goes:
>  
>         -----rana, rana, cola de rana----
>  
>          -----el zapato de Augustin
>                 se los puso el chapulin-----
>  
> Does that ring a bell with anyone?
>  
> My husband also just brought up a book from our library.   I had 
forgotten

Jose 3 of your spouses names are my names also, is she on this group also?

gloria

              ~~glo~~





From: jose munoz <jmunoz2781@...>
Reply-To: ranchos@yahoogroups.com
To: ranchos@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [ranchos] Racial Classifications
Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 23:24:50 -0700 (PDT)

I'm new to this group and read many of the groups
messages.. In my family lines there were hijo and
hijas naturales along with hijo/hijas legitimos. For
example 3 naturals out of family 12. I have a copy of
the Church Marriage Record.... so why a natural
baptism for 3 of them. I have a gggrandfather baptized
as a Don? Why at birth is someone named a don? Heir
apparent? Laborers, Sirvientes, miners.

I have a family line who think they are French. Why?
Because of Grandma's Green eyes! The truth of the
matters is they can not accept the fact they are
Indian decent mixed with espanoles.

I'm Mexican, born and raised in the U.S., and I'm
proud to be Mexican. My 4th greatgrandfather was
espanol. His brothers and sisters married
espanoles/las. But Ysidro Munoz married an Yndia. My
3th Great, Roque Munoz 1760, a mestizo was at times
recorded on Bautismo records as espanol, coyote, and
lobo? Why such a thing? They were from Rancho de
Banon, Zac., 2nd great Francisco Munoz 1786 a mestizo,
from Hacienda de Grunidora, 1st great Teofilo Munoz
1817, from Hacienda Grunidora, SLP, no race given, and
my granfather Jose Angel Munoz Ybarra 1886, Hacienda
De Solis, SLP, my line from 3rd marriage of
Teofilo{age 69.. yes age 69}. My father Elpidio Munoz
b. 1906  Hacienda de Solis, SLP. This is why I'm
Mexican. My roots...


Me: MUNOZ,YBARRA,TRISTAN,GALVAN...Villa de Cos, San
Cosme, Burgo de San Cosme, Zacatecas. Grunidora,
Hacienda Solis...SLP
My spouse: LUNA, ARELLANO, CORTEZ, CORREA, SANDOVAL,
CASTANEDA: Tlaltenango, Tepechitlan, Teul, Florencia,
La Estancia, Cerro de Pantano

We have done our homework and research for nearly ten
years. We still want to learn and share.

Jose Munoz

--- Margarita Vallazza <TeaCozyGran@...> wrote:

> Rock on, Carol!!!:)  Marge:)
>
>
> On Jun 23, 2005, at 8:26 PM, Carol Lester wrote:
>
> > I think it is so very sad that people can spend so
> much time "talking"
> > about something they cannot change...and perhaps
> if we would read the
> > Word of God and apply His principle of "seeing
> each other as HE sees
> > us, there would never be an on-going conversation

OK, Joseph.

I'll wait while you revise the text.  If you already have something 
worked out with John, I think he can manage the translation on his 
own with no problem.  Of course, if any of you want my opinion just 
let me know.

Victor

--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, Joseph Puentes <makas@n...> wrote:
> Victor thanks,
> 
> I have something worked out with John Gonzalez and I would like to 
> include you in it as well if you both don't mind. I would like 
for "me" 
> to try to translate it.I'll do it in sections and I'll then send 
both 
> you and John the section . You guys can email each other until you 
both 
> are in agreement which translated version is easiest for most 
Spanish 
> speakers to understand. then we'll move on to the next section.
> 
> Marge Vallazza is going to do the English upgrade so it will be a 
little 
> while before I have my first section done.
> 
> thanks for the offer and when I'm ready I'll privately send you and 
John 
> the first section
> 
> thanks much. . .gracias a los dos,
> 
> joseph
> 
> 

I want to recommend a CD/DVD I recently purchased from Univision.com;
It is called Mexico en la Sangre, and they have one on Jalisco,
Michoacan and Puebla. I bought the one from Michoacan as my granny was
born there. It has songs from that state as well a DVD caminos de
(city you are interested in) showing the towns in that state, I really
enjoyed viewing it and learning a little bit about that state.It's
like a mini tourist infomercial. Check it out. Hilda 

We lived in a one room apartment near Washington Park,
across the street from St. Xavier Catholic church. 
The apartment was a dump (dirt floors) with the
bathroom aside shared with other tenants. We were a
very poor family, there were six of us counting my
grandmother.

El Paso at that time offered zero opportunities for
Mexican-Americans, so my dad moved all of us the Los
Angeles. There were many families from El Paso that
moved to Los Angeles back in the early '40s, including
one by the name of Antony Quinn who later won a couple
of Oscars-you see, we can make it if only given the
opportunity.

Alberto.
--- Margarita Vallazza <TeaCozyGran@...> wrote:

> Where did you live in El Paso at that time?  I lived
> across from Sacred 
> Heart Church and School for the first 8 years of my
> life.  As a kid, I 
> hated going across the border because it was so
> unfamiliar to be and 
> because of all the noise, the exotic odors, the
> beggars, and the 
> language.  I was always afraid, although no one
> would have harmed me 
> but that's how I was then.  Now, I can appreciate
> everything about it, 
> including the interesting architecture.  Marge:)
> 
> On Jun 27, 2005, at 4:03 PM, Alberto Duarte wrote:
> 
> > Good and sad times:
> >  We also went to the Marcado in Juarez back in the
> >  early '50s.  My mom would buy dry goods which
> were
> >  really expensive for us to buy in the United
> States
> >  (Los Angeles).  Would you believe that we also
> >  purchased young parrots and smuggled them across
> to El
> >  Paso!  Later on this turned out to be a sad
> >  remembrance for me, when I found out that
> thousands,
> >  maybe millions, of the these beautiful birds were
> >  wiped out of the rain forests in Mexico, just
> because
> >  of greed and ignorance.
> >
> >  Alberto.
> >
> >  --- Margarita Vallazza <TeaCozyGran@...>
> wrote:
> >
> >  > When I was a kid, we would cross the border
> into
> >  > Juarez with my aunts
> >  > and mother to go shopping at the Mercado, and
> one of
> >  > the merchants had
> >  > a display of pinole.  It was sold in paper
> >  > cones--sometimes pi�±ata-type
> >  > paper and sometimes newspaper.  I liked
> it...didn't