TEST SITE - DO NOT USE - Development only

Hello, as promised, here's an updated version of my family tree. Use 
size 150% or larger to navigate it. By the way, I put as the 
background picture the church of San Francisco de Asis in Zacoalco 
de Torres, Jalisco. It was in that place where many of my ancestors 
had their baptisms, marriages, and funerals.

You may have noticed that my family lines extend mainly to the 
southern pueblos of Jalisco (once called Provincia de Avalos). Many 
of you have deep roots in los Altos, however. I already knew that my 
Tapia ancestors were from los Altos, but I did not know from where. 
Now that I found a marriage record in Lagos de Moreno, I will start 
researching my Tapia line. I hope I can find some cousins in this 
group.

--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, ranchos@yahoogroups.com wrote:
> 
> 
> Hello,
> 
> This email message is a notification to let you know that
> a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the ranchos 
> group.
> 
>   File        : /Steve G. Apodaca Tapia (sgapodaca@y...)/Arbol de 
Gary.pdf 
>   Uploaded by : sgapodaca <sgapodaca@y...> 
>   Description : My Direct Ancestors 
> 
> You can access this file at the URL:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ranchos/files/Steve%20G.%20Apodaca%
20Tapia%20%28sgapodaca%40yahoo.com%29/Arbol%20de%20Gary.pdf 
> 
> To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
> http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files
> 
> Regards,
> 
> sgapodaca <sgapodaca@y...>

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the ranchos 
group.

  File        : /Steve G. Apodaca Tapia (sgapodaca@...)/Arbol de Gary.pdf 
  Uploaded by : sgapodaca <sgapodaca@...> 
  Description : My Direct Ancestors 

You can access this file at the URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ranchos/files/Steve%20G.%20Apodaca%20Tapia%20%28sgapodaca%40yahoo.com%29/Arbol%20de%20Gary.pdf 

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

Regards,

sgapodaca <sgapodaca@...>
 

How do you relate those surnames to that region? If I
may ask?  I have Castro in my mother's line, but I
have only been able to trace it back to Vicente Castro
around the mid 1800's and he lived in El Castro, Sain
Alto, Zacatecas.  

Perhaps he came from Valparaiso, that could be a
possibility.  

Dora
--- Joseph Puentes <makas@...> wrote:

> Is anyone in the group studying in the Valparaiso,
> Zacatecas area?
> 
> if so might you have these surnames in your family:
> Castro, Garcia, 
> Duenas, Martinez, and/or Arevalo?
> 
> joseph
> 
> 
> 



		
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Is anyone in the group studying in the Valparaiso, Zacatecas area?

if so might you have these surnames in your family: Castro, Garcia,
Duenas, Martinez, and/or Arevalo?

joseph

I read somewhere that the reason the race stops being documented was 
a result of the Mexican Independence. Much like the American 
Independence in which "all men are created equal", the Mexican 
Independence established similar laws.  Thus, it became illegal to 
note the person's race.  The year when the law was put into practice 
will vary from parrish to parrish, but, it would be in the early 
1820's.

Maria Cortez

--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, Joseph Puentes <makas@n...> wrote:
> 
> 
> alice wissing wrote:
> 
> > Alberto,
> >  
> > There is a table in the book "Governance & Society in Colonial 
Mexico 
> > - Chihuahua in the Eighteenth Century" that contains the number 
of 
> > baptisms occurring in El Sagrario Parish broken down by race.  
In 1780 
> > there were 66 mulatos, and in 1790 there were 0.  It's as if 
they 
> > disappeared during a decade.
> 
> One thing I've noticed and seem to think it had reference to the 
> struggle for Independance from Spain. . . But at a certain time 
period 
> the records in Jalisco seem to stop indicating people by race. 
Those 
> that were mestizo, mulato, espanol, indio etc are seen in the 
records as 
> just people. I'm not sure of the date but somewhere in the early 
1800's 
> this absence of referring to race occured. Maybe what you are 
seeing is 
> a gradual move from the "importance" of establishing race to the 
more 
> politically correct or "preference" of the people to not have race 
play 
> such an important part. Just a thought.
> 
> > One thing we can be certain about, it was not socially and 
> > economically advantageous for our ancestors to identify 
themselves as 
> > mulatos.  Maybe the priests realized that and gradually phased 
out 
> > using the term.  
> >
> > Joseph, if you're out there, many years ago I tried telling a 
> > "sister" I worked with how I thought I was black because of my 
frizzy 
> > hair, and it really annoyed her.  A word of advice to everyone:  
Be 
> > careful about flaunting your newfound heritage around blacks - 
they 
> > could think you are ridiculing them.
> 
> I understand what you are saying but I wouldn't dream of sharing 
that 
> without the proof of a DNA study. Its not like I show them the 
records 
> first but I make reference to them as my evidence.
> 
> > Alice 
> >

Hello Guillermo.

Well, I do not agree with your point that there are very few blacks 
in Mexico. Blacks did not dissapear, they just melted with indios and 
espanoles and formed today's mexican society. If you go to any town 
in Mexico and look around, you'll find lots of people that have small 
traces from these ancestors. And I'm not just talking about the color 
of the skin, but also of the facial features and body complexion. 

On my personal experience, I have seen lots of baptisms of both free 
and slave mulattos in the Zacoalco, Jalisco area. Today, you don't 
see mulatos there, but believe me, if you look closely, you'll find 
them. Heck, even myself, I look more white than black or indian, but 
I am always aware (and proud) of my recently proven black heritage. 
(Maybe that explains my slightly wide nose). Also, maybe Joseph can 
confirm this: my sister lives in Winston-Salem, NC. Most of the 
Mexican immigrants in that area are from the state of Guerrero. I 
visited NC once, and I was surprised to notice that many of them 
could easily pass as native african americans.

In conclusion, blacks did not dissapear from Mexico, they (or I dare 
to say we) just don't look black anymore.

Steve

--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, Guillermo Valdez <valhdez@y...> wrote:
> We definetly shouldn't rule out the presence of blacks
> in México (and we might have some blood too!), but we
> have to be aware that blacks were brought to México at
> first when Spaniards arrive to Veracruz. This is why
> we find most black mexicans in the eastern coast of
> México (Gulf of Mexico). As soon as they started
> conquering the indians, the need for black labor
> became unnecessary. I would not question the veracity
> of Vaughn's assertion about black outnumbering
> spaniards (maybe at the beginning of the colony), but
> I doubt it is true in present day México. If I'm not
> mistaken (correct me if I am wrong), México and
> Argentina and the two latin american countries with
> the smallest black population.
> 
> Guillermo Valdez.
> 
> 
> --- alice wissing <alice_wissing@y...> wrote:
> 
> > Hello,
> >  
> > I've always wondered if any families had haciendas
> > in the Los Altos area and what differentiates a
> > ranch from a hacienda.  Does anyone out there know
> > how I would go about finding that information?  
> >  

Note:
I have a historical event book from Jerez, and there
is an article where they were selling black and
mulatto slaves on the open market (early 1700s). In
fact, I believe one of my ancestors buying them.

Question: What happened to all these slaves?  When I
went to Jerez, I didn't see a single black!  I believe
they were assimilated in to the population.

Any comments?

Alberto.


--- alice wissing <alice_wissing@...> wrote:

> Esperanza,
>  
> I'm curious where you read about the blacks
> outnumbering the Spaniards in Zacatecas.  I've got
> really weird hair and have been traced with
> certainty to a few coyotes and a black, all from
> Durango, which is next to Zacatecas.  I've never met
> another Mexican with hair as strange as mine -
> coarse, dark, wavy, and it won't hold a curl.  I can
> even forecast the weather with this hair.  Once I
> told everyone it was going to rain and it was sunny
> out.  Nobody believed me and then it rained that
> night.  Sometimes I think God gave me this hair so
> I'd always have something to do.
>  
> Alice
> 
> latina1955@... wrote:
> Actually, for a while, blacks outnumbered Spaniards
> in Zacatecas as well because they were being used in
> the silver mines that dot the whole state.  Did you
> know that Michoacan had an enormous amount of
> Africans there early on as well?  
>  
> Both my husband (from Michoacan) and myself would
> bet that we have African blood running through our
> veins - primarily because of the very nappy hair
> that both sides of the relatives have.
>  
> Esperanza
> 
> 
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Actually, for a while, blacks outnumbered Spaniards in Zacatecas as well because they were being used in the silver mines that dot the whole state.  Did you know that Michoacan had an enormous amount of Africans there early on as well? 

 

Both my husband (from Michoacan) and myself would bet that we have African blood running through our veins - primarily because of the very nappy hair that both sides of the relatives have.

 

Esperanza

I wish I could say that I am related to the Valdez
from Teotaltiche. My Grandfather was from Zitácuaro,
Michoacán. I haven't trace enough to know where they
came from before Michoacán. I know there is a large
Valdez family both in Zacatecas and Veracurz, but I
haven't on the Valdez from Michoacán. Anyone who has
more information, please let me know. I will check
this info in the meantime.

Guillermo Valdez


--- aajay1073 <aajay1073@...> wrote:

> 
> Hey Victor,
> 
> The books you mention are actually the ones I have. 
> Sorry, I didn't 
> know the names but I recognize them.
> 
> The three books I currently have are:
> - Los Valdes de Totatiche
>      {I descend from the Valdes family, Joseph
> Leandro Valdez Lopez 
> and Maria Josepha Grano Covarrubias}
> - Estirpe Sacerdotal Campos-Jara
>      {I descend from the Campos family, Pedro Leon
> Gaeta Sierra and 
> Maria de la Luz Campos Huerta.}
> - El Sacerdocio Ministerial - Singular Don a la
> Parroquia de Totatiche
>      {I descend from the Grano family, through the
> same line from 
> above Joseph Leandro Valdez Lopez and Maria Josepha
> Grano Covarrubias}
> 
> The areas I am researching are:
> Totatiche and Colotlan in Jalisco
> Momax, Tlaltenango, Atolinga, Tepechitlan in
> Zacatecas
> 
> Some of the surnames I am researching are:
> Cardenas, Carreon (Carrion), Gaeta, Godina, Huerta,
> Huizar, Luna, 
> Miramontes, Perez, Raigosa (Raygoza), Avila, Campos,
> Castaneda, Correa
> (s), Covarrubias, Grano, Lopez, Marques (Marques De
> Los Olivos), 
> Pinedo, Robles, Romero, Rosales, Sanchez, Sandoval,
> Serrano, Sierra, 
> Valdez, Valenzuela 
> 
> Take a look in the file section for details.
> 
> - Angie Godina
> 
> 
> --- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "vela_este"
> <vela_este@y...> wrote:
> > 
> > Hi Angie,
> > 
> > On my visit to Totatiche last summer I also bought
> a copy of 
> the "Los 
> > Valdez" and "Los Jara" books by Don Esteban
> Valdez.  
> > 
> > Besides the books you mention, I know of a couple
> more, which I 
> also 
> > bought:  "Historia de Totatiche" and "Historia de
> Totatiche II".  
> > I obtained also the following smaller works:
> > 
> > Un Sacristán en Monterrey - Crónicas
> > Estirpe Sacerdotal Campos-Jara

We definetly shouldn't rule out the presence of blacks
in México (and we might have some blood too!), but we
have to be aware that blacks were brought to México at
first when Spaniards arrive to Veracruz. This is why
we find most black mexicans in the eastern coast of
México (Gulf of Mexico). As soon as they started
conquering the indians, the need for black labor
became unnecessary. I would not question the veracity
of Vaughn's assertion about black outnumbering
spaniards (maybe at the beginning of the colony), but
I doubt it is true in present day México. If I'm not
mistaken (correct me if I am wrong), México and
Argentina and the two latin american countries with
the smallest black population.

Guillermo Valdez.


--- alice wissing <alice_wissing@...> wrote:

> Hello,
>  
> I've always wondered if any families had haciendas
> in the Los Altos area and what differentiates a
> ranch from a hacienda.  Does anyone out there know
> how I would go about finding that information?  
>  
> I stumbled across the Bobby Vaughn website some time
> ago and found it fascinating.  I think it was only
> in Mexico City where the blacks outnumbered the
> Spaniards.  
>  
> Thanks,
>  
> Alice
> 
> sgapodaca <sgapodaca@...> wrote:
> 
> I hope everyone is doing ok. I just came back from a
> trip to Jalisco 
> and wanted to let you know that I had a lot of fun.
> Of course, I used 
> some of my time there interviewing my relatives and
> visiting the 
> Zacoalco's notaria for records from the 1700's.
> Soon, I'll post an 
> updated family tree on the files section.
> 
> By the way, the conversation about spanish ancestors
> and indios 
> ancestors is past already, but I just wanted to
> remind you that we 
> must not forget our african roots. According to
> researcher Bobby 
> Vaughn, black population outnumbered spaniards
> during most of the 
> colonial times. Have a look at this page:
> www.afromexico.com I, and 
> probably many of you, have found mulatos, coyotes,
> and similar terms 
> on some of our lines, which means that we also have
> african roots.
> 
> Is anyone aware of a book called "Haciendas y
> Estancias de Jalisco"? 
> Well, on a trip to Guadalajara, I got a copy of this
> book, and even 
> though I haven't read it all, It has some
> interesting information on 
> the haciendas of Jalisco.
> 

cool! glad you had a great time and thanks much for the website. here is
the bibliography from that website:

Aguirre Beltrán, Gonzalo, La población negra de México, 1519-1810:
estudio etnohistórico (México: Ediciones Fuente Cultural, 1946).

Aguirre Beltrán, Gonzalo, Cuijla: esbozo etnográfico de un pueblo negro,
(México: Fondo de Cultura Económica, 1958).

Althoff, Daniel , "Afro-Mestizo Speech from Costa Chica, Guerrero: From
Cuaji to Cuijla," (Language Problems and Language Planning, 18(3),
1994), p.242-256.

Carroll, Patrick J., Blacks in Colonial Veracruz: Race, Ethnicity, and
Regional Development, (Austin: University of Texas Press, 1991).

Cruz Carretero, Sagrario , Identidad en una comunidad afromestiza del
centro de Veracruz: La población de Mata Clara, (Tésis de Licenciatura,
Fundación Universidad de las Américas).

Davidson, David M., "Negro Slave Control and Resistance in colonial
Mexico, 1519-1650," In Maroon Societies: Rebel Slave Communities in the
Americas. Richard Price, ed. (Garden City, NY: Anchor Press, 1973).

Eaton, Tracey, "Mexico's Other Minority", San Francisco Examiner, 4/24/96.

Gutiérrez Avila, Miguel Angel, Corrido y violencia: entre los
afromestizos de la Costa Chica de Guerrero y Oaxaca, (México:
Universidad Autónoma de Guerrero, 1988).

Love, Edgar , 1967 "Negro Resistance to Spanish Rule in Colonial
Mexico," (Journal of Negro History 52(2), 1967), p. 89-103.

Martínez Montiel, Luz María, Presencia Africana en México, (México:
Dirección General de Culturas Populares, 1994).

Mendoza, Vicente T., "Algo del folklore negro de México," In Miscelánea
de estudios dedicados al Dr. Fernando Ortiz. Vol. 2. (Havana, 1956).

I hope everyone is doing ok. I just came back from a trip to Jalisco
and wanted to let you know that I had a lot of fun. Of course, I used
some of my time there interviewing my relatives and visiting the
Zacoalco's notaria for records from the 1700's. Soon, I'll post an
updated family tree on the files section.

By the way, the conversation about spanish ancestors and indios
ancestors is past already, but I just wanted to remind you that we
must not forget our african roots. According to researcher Bobby
Vaughn, black population outnumbered spaniards during most of the
colonial times. Have a look at this page: www.afromexico.com I, and
probably many of you, have found mulatos, coyotes, and similar terms
on some of our lines, which means that we also have african roots.

Is anyone aware of a book called "Haciendas y Estancias
de Jalisco"?
Well, on a trip to Guadalajara, I got a copy of this book, and even
though I haven't read it all, It has some interesting information on
the haciendas of Jalisco.

Ok, I'll keep in touch.

I hope everyone is doing ok. I just came back from a trip to Jalisco 
and wanted to let you know that I had a lot of fun. Of course, I used 
some of my time there interviewing my relatives and visiting the 
Zacoalco's notaria for records from the 1700's. Soon, I'll post an 
updated family tree on the files section.

By the way, the conversation about spanish ancestors and indios 
ancestors is past already, but I just wanted to remind you that we 
must not forget our african roots. According to researcher Bobby 
Vaughn, black population outnumbered spaniards during most of the 
colonial times. Have a look at this page: www.afromexico.com I, and 
probably many of you, have found mulatos, coyotes, and similar terms 
on some of our lines, which means that we also have african roots.

Is anyone aware of a book called "Haciendas y Estancias de Jalisco"? 
Well, on a trip to Guadalajara, I got a copy of this book, and even 
though I haven't read it all, It has some interesting information on 
the haciendas of Jalisco.

Ok, I'll keep in touch.

Can't promise anything, Joseph.  But with a little luck and a LOT of 
patience we might be able to get you one.  In the mean time, get 
yourself a nice drink and put that to rest.  :)



--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, Joseph Puentes <makas@n...> wrote:
> For the following Ranchos in Jalisco:
> 
> Rancho de Animas
> Sauz de los Marquez
> El Salto or just Salto (formerly Salto de los Romeros I'm hoping)
> 
> I was hoping that the phone book that covers from Colotlan, Jalisco 
> including everything North to Tepetongo, Zacatecas would have those 
> phone numbers including others I'm sure I'd be interested in. I 
wish I 
> could get my hands on that phone book.
> 
> thanks,
> 
> joseph