Looking for Book

Hello Everyone,
I would like to know if anyone knows where I could find
the book, "Filigranas,Fundaciones y Genealogias" by
Jose Leon Robles de la Torre. I believe it was published

Comentarios

Comentario

If you go to World Cat at http://www.worldcat.org/ you can find a library that has this book.

If you search for this title, there are actually two books by this author with similar titles:

Filigranas, fundaciones y genealogías, Tepetongo, Zacs., published in 1999
and
Filigranas, fundaciones y genealogías : Jerez, 1531-1992-2006, Susticacán, 1562-1981, y Monte Escobedo 1600-1700-1995, Zacatecas, published in 2007

The website allows you to put in your zip code, and it will list the libraries closest to you in order of distance.

In my case, the closest library is in Southern California.

World Cat does not necessarily include all libraries, but only those that are part of its system.

If you live near Salt Lake City, also check the FHL catalog (this is not part of World Cat).

George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA

Comentario

The Tepetongo book is at the Los Angeles Family History Library on
Santa Monica Blvd. in West LA. I donated it to them quite a few years
ago and saw it on the shelf a couple weeks ago.

John P. Schmal

-----Original Message-----
From: gpf13
To: general
Sent: Sat, Nov 5, 2011 5:33 pm
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Locations for the Book

If you go to World Cat at http://www.worldcat.org/ you can find a
library that has this book.

If you search for this title, there are actually two books by this
author with similar titles:

Filigranas, fundaciones y genealogías, Tepetongo, Zacs., published in
1999
and
Filigranas, fundaciones y genealogías : Jerez, 1531-1992-2006,
Susticacán, 1562-1981, y Monte Escobedo 1600-1700-1995, Zacatecas,
published in 2007

The website allows you to put in your zip code, and it will list the
libraries closest to you in order of distance.

In my case, the closest library is in Southern California.

World Cat does not necessarily include all libraries

Comentario

The Tepetongo book is at the Los Angeles Family History Library on
Santa Monica Blvd. in West LA. I donated it to them quite a few years
ago and saw it on the shelf a couple weeks ago.

John P. Schmal

-----Original Message-----
From: gpf13
To: general
Sent: Sat, Nov 5, 2011 5:33 pm
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Locations for the Book

If you go to World Cat at http://www.worldcat.org/ you can find a
library that has this book.

If you search for this title, there are actually two books by this
author with similar titles:

Filigranas, fundaciones y genealogías, Tepetongo, Zacs., published in
1999
and
Filigranas, fundaciones y genealogías : Jerez, 1531-1992-2006,
Susticacán, 1562-1981, y Monte Escobedo 1600-1700-1995, Zacatecas,
published in 2007

The website allows you to put in your zip code, and it will list the
libraries closest to you in order of distance.

In my case, the closest library is in Southern California.

World Cat does not necessarily include all libraries

Antiguas frases

These phrases seem to be very interesting, BUT-- could someone please
translate them into English for those of us that are “Spanish impaired” ??

¡Muchas gracias!

Beverly Ewald

Antiguas frases de la región alteña

He leído con agrado un mensaje de Luis Arturo Huerta Rodríguez donde menciona el significado de algunas frases usadas en la región alteña y quisiera hacer mi aportación al respecto, espero les si

Comentarios

Comentario

Profesor Gracias por hacerme recordar viejos tiempos yo apesar de que
tengo 40 recuerdo esas frases.... la razon pues mi Padre nacio por el
año de 1911 y esas frases eran comunes en el

GRACIAS MUCHAS GRACIAS
Sergio Eduardo Alatorre Gomez

Comentario

Gracias profesor por subir esas antiguas frases de la region altena. En verdad si se siguen usando y escuchando en los pueblos de la region. Recientemente escuche esta frase que utilizo mi esposa "Oye tu estas viendo Moros con tranchetes" Le pregunte sobre el origen de esta y dice que sus Abuelos y algunos ancianos del pueblo la decian. Me pregunto yo si esta frase data a la Espana medival cuando las guerras entre Cristiano y Moro? Tambien me pregunto sobre nuestra oracion Catolica "Por la senal de la Santa Cruz, de nuestros enemigos libranos Senor Dios nuestro" etc... He notado que en Ingles en USA esta oracion no se acostumbra. Sera tambien acaso de nuestra historia de Cristiano vs Moro en Espana? Simple curiosidad.
Gracias Jose A. Michel

Matrimonio de Nicolas Lopez de Elizalde en Ciudad Manuel Doblado, Guanajuato, Obispado de Michoacan

Encontré un dato que encontré sobre los López de Elizalde.

Comentarios

Comentario

Daniel,

Do you know if Nicolas is related to Joseph de Elisalde, md to Juana
Carrillo(6ggpts)? They had children in Teocaltiche and Mexticacan between
1713-1725.
Sabe usted si Nicolas es pariente de Joseph de Elisalde, casada con Juana
Carrillo? Tuvieron hijos in Teocaltiche y Mexticacan entre 1713-1725.

Gracias.
Raquel Ruiz

Defunciones de Nochistlan 1814-1817

En este archivo de Arandas, que viene del rollo de defunciones de Nochistlan en los años 1814-1817, ay varios que indica que murio pasado por las armas.

Este joven, Juan Jose Padilla de Arandas es

Comentarios

Comentario

...el 6 de octubre de 1814 Nochistlán fue sitiado por un numerosísimo grupo de "gavillas insurgentes" y los soldados realistas apenas pudieron detener a los atacantes de murallas adentro, dejando abandonado lo demás de la población (28). El campamento rebelde se hizo en la Loma del Tuichi y tuvieron a su dispocisión los insurgentes la parte del pueblo que quedaba fuera de murallas, así como los ranchos cercanos.
Uno de los testigos afirma: "que el saqueo que hicieron los Insurgentes en dicho día seis de octubre de esta jurisdicción fue excesivo y general a causa de no haber podido la Tropa de esta Plaza salir de murallas afuera por ser en grandísima la diferencia mayor la fuerza del Pelotón Insurgente y más efectivo el saqueo que sufrieron los vecinos que tenían sus bienes a inmediaciones del campamento."
Igualmente hace saber que el jefe era el insurgente don Rafael Oropeza, acompañado de otros cabecillas, entre ellos Vallejo, Rodríguez y otro de apellido Hermosillo. Como se ve, la

Comentario

Muchisimas Gracias Luis Arturo por la explicacion detallada.

Por cierto que si tengo ese libro pero ahorita lo tengo almacenado. Tendre que buscarlo y leerlo de nuevo. He encontrado dentro de este rollo de microfilm muchisimos  que murieron a causa de la guerra con descripciones que dicen lo siguiente.

"Murio apelotiadoa", "Fue muerto en la guerra", "murio de un balaso", "Lo mataron los de la tropa del Rey" " murieron a balasos en manos de los soldados"
" lo mataron los insurgentes"

Hay various que dicen asi. Originarios de tierra dentro, murio en la guerra.............supongo que no sabian de donde eran originarios y por eso decia de tierra dentro.

Alicia,
San Jose, Ca.

________________________________
From: "uisart@hotmail.com"
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thursday, November 3, 2011 10:18 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Defunciones de Nochistlan

...el 6 de octubre de 1814 Nochistlán fue sitiado por un numerosísimo grupo de "gavillas insurgentes" y los

Comentario

alcabuseado quiere decir que fue fusilado por un alcabus, un tipo de arma, en estos anos aun se peleaba la guerra de independencia la quel duro de 1810 hasta 1821 cuando Iturbide se convirtion en emperador de Mexico

Adrian A. Bugarin

Comentario

Muchas Gracias Adrian por tu ayuda, asi me imaginaba pero no sabia con seguridad.

Alicia,
San Jose, Ca

________________________________
From: "buga1138@bears.unco.edu"
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thursday, November 3, 2011 7:12 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Defunciones de Nochistlan

alcabuseado quiere decir que fue fusilado por un alcabus, un tipo de arma, en estos anos aun se peleaba la guerra de independencia la quel duro de 1810 hasta 1821 cuando Iturbide se convirtion en emperador de Mexico

Adrian A. Bugarin

Ramos de Oviedo (Aguascalientes, Jalpa, Teocaltiche)

Estimado compañeros:

Comentarios

Comentario

Danny,

Valle de Huejucar is on the northwest side of what use to be part of Zacatecas, which is now Jalisco. As you know, Jalpa is at the southern side of Zacatecas and is located in the Cañon de Juchipila.

----- Original Message -----

From: mendezdetorres@hotmail.com
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thursday, November 3, 2011 11:26:21 AM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ramos de Oviedo (Aguascalientes, Jalpa,        Teocaltiche)

Estimado compañeros:

Aver si algún persona me puede ayudar. Tengo a mi octavo bisabuelo, D. Juan Ramos de Oviedo quiera era un comerciante en Aguascalientes natural de Sorvilán, Obispado de Granda, Andalucía en los Reinos de Castilla. Casó dos veces 1) mi octava bisabuela, Manuela de Villalobos que se dice que era de Jalpa, Zacatcas en el valle de Huejúcar. 2) parece ser su prima, Josefa de Villalobos natural de Aguascalientes el 30 de abril de 1770 hija de Pedro de Villalobos y Ma Antonia Martínez de Sotomayor.

Juan Ramos de Oviedo

Nicolas Macias de Esparza and Getrudis Macias de Esparza

I have found the grant of the dispensation for Nicolas Macias de Esparza and Gertruis Macias de Esparza for 3rd and 4th degree consanguinity, in February 1730, in Aguascalientes (matrimonial investiga

Comentarios

Comentario

George and Armando,
Nicolas Macias and Thomas Macias were brothers, were the sons of Thomas Macias Valades and unknown. This relationship is supported by the following document (dispensa) given to Salvador Macias Esparza and Maria Macias Esparza, respectively brother and sister of Nicolas Macias Esparza and Gertrudis Macias Esparza. whose license of February 1730 (image 84) George made mention, and who are my direct ancestors.

[Nicolas Macias y Thomas Macias fueron hermanos,hijos de Thomas Macias Valades y desconocida. Esta informacion fue obtenida de la siguiente dispensa otorgada en Guadalajara a Salvador Macias Esparza y a Maria Macias Esparza, respectivamente hermano y hermana de Nicolas Macias y Gertrudis Macias, a cuya licencia de febrero de 1730 George hizo mencion, y quienes son mis ancestros directos]

Dispensa otorgada por Diócesis de Guadalajara, Matrimonios 1733-34, Imagenes 29-35

From image 30 (Declaracion de Salvador Masias)
"Salvador Masias originario de esta

Comentario

Jaime and George,

According to a previous email by George there was a 3rd degree consanguinity
through Luis de Alvarado and Beatriz Lopes de Elisalde. Do you also have
that Jaime?

In the dispensa below of Salvador Macias Esparza and Maria Macias Esparza it
does not state the father of Tomas Masias y Nicolas Masias. From what you
have given us, in image 30, it states that Tomas Masias y Nicolas Masias
were brothers, Tomas had Pedro Masias who was the father of Salvador Macias
and the said Nicolas Masias had Onofre Masias who had Maria Masias. In image
32 the name Tomas is changed to Bernardo. So there we see there was an
error, either in image 30 or 32. Both you and George have him as Tomas so
image 32 where it says Bernardo is probably where the error exists.

Since Salvador de Esparza was the brother of Bernardo de Esparza means
Salvador was the son of Lope Ruiz de Esparza and Francisca de Gabay.

Saludos
Armando

2011/10/20 Jaime R. Alvarado

> George and Armando,
> Nicolas Macias

Comentario

Hola Amigos:
Leo que platican de los Ruíz Esparza, yo estoy ayudando a mi mamá a realizar
su árbol, tenemos relación con los Ruíz de Esparza, les proporciono la
información que tengo y si tienen información que me pueda ayudar a terminar
nuestro árbol les agradezco mucho

Matrimonio de Manuel Ruiz de Esparza con María Romo de Vivar y Peguero
(Rangel) nacida en 1651, Hijo Antonio Ruíz de Esparza y Romo de Vivar nacido
en Aguascalientes en 1675.

Matrimonio de Antonio Ruíz de Esparza y Romo de Vivar con María de la Rosa y
Ortíz

*Primer Matrimonio de Trinidad Ruíz de Esparza y Romo de Vivar* con Luisa
Esparza en 5 junio de 1804, primer matrimonio hijos

Froylán

Ciriaco

José Plácido

José Anacleto Ramón n. 21 julio 1814 Cieneguillas, Aguascalientes

José Sinecio n. 19 junio 1819 Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes

*Primer Matrimonio de Froylán Ruíz de Esparza Esparza* con Anastácia Delgado
Salazar, hijos:

Francisco

Francisca

Luis

María Perfecta

Matrimonio Francisca Ruíz de

Comentario

Estimado Julio,

Tenemos que comunicarnos lo mas pronto posible. He estudiado tu genealogia muy bien. La familia Ruiz de la Pena era muy vinculado con mi familia por varias generaciones mediante las familias Gomez de Portugal, Guinchard, Garcia de Rojas, Ruiz de Esparza y Camino-Trasgallo. Si desciendes de los Ruiz de la Pena, eres descendiente del Solar de Camino. Asi es lo siguiente.

Da. Virginia Ruiz de la Pena

Lic. Isaac Ruiz de la Pena, Jefe Politico de Aguascalientes

D. Florencio o Francisco Ruiz de la Pena

D. Agustin Ruiz de la Pena quien caso a Da. Micaela de Camino Trasgallo

D. Micaela era hija de Capt. Joseph de Camino y Trasgallo, Alcalde Mayor de Sierra de Pinos, Sub-Delegado de la Intendencia de Zacatecas. etc, etc.

Estas familias, Gomez de Portugal (Politico y Medicos), Diaz de Leon (Medicos), Flores Alatorre (Abogados), Rincon Gallardo (Comerciantes), Garcia de Rojas (Politicos), Guinchard (Banqueros), Ruiz de Esparza (Politicos) y Camino-Trasgallo

Comentario

Estimado Armando,

Interesantemente ya que mencionan que Nicolas Macias Valades y Tomas Macias Valades eran hermanos. Hijos de Tomas Macias Valades. Ahora, no tenia que eran hijos de Tomas Macias Valades, ni supe la identidad de su padre ni que eran hermanos carnales. Ahora, si tenia que Tomas Macias Valades, hijo era hijo de Luisa de Villegas, no tenia su padre, lo que me sugiere que tome este dato de una dispensa. Por mal suerte hace varios meses que empece a segurarme que cada dato de mi archivo y en mi base de datos es probado con un documento y dato.

Esta conclusion sugiere que eran hijos de Tomas Macias Valades y Luisa de Villegas, la hija de Francisco Solano de Villegas y Calderon; Francisca Jimenez Altamirano.

Daniel

Comentario

Estimado Daniel,

Has confundido lo que he escrito. En la dispensa no dice quien era el padre
de Nicolás y Tomás Macias, solo que eran hermanos. Es exactamente lo que yo
había dicho y traté de aclarar. Entonces hace falta encontrar algún
documento que menciona a los padres de Nicolás y Tomás.

La dispensa dice "Tomas Masias y Nicolas Masias hermanos, procedierion de
Thomas Masias, Pedro Masias mi padre, y del dicho Nicolas Masias, Onofre
Masias y de este Maria Masias mi pretensa'

La forma que esta escrito la dispensa puede hacer creer a uno que dice otra
cosa pero los que dice en otras palabras es que Tomas Masias y Nicolas
Masias fueron hermanos. Thomas tuvo a Pedro Masias padre de Salvador Masias.
Nicolas tuvo a Onofre Masias quien tuvo a Maria Masias la pretensa de
Salvador Masias.

Yo tengo que el esposo de Luisa de Villegas era Pedro Macias Valadez y no
Tomás. Se me hace que apuntaste mal. No creo que tienes ese error en tu base
de datos.

Saludos
Armando

2011/10/27 Daniel

Comentario

Esta bien, mas bien no entendi muy claramente. Sin embargo tenia Luisa de Villegas como madre de Tomas Macias Valades. Ahora si Tomas y Pedro eran hermanos, mi conclusion seria que eran hijos de Pedro Macias Valades y Luisa de Villegas. No tenia Luisa casado con Pedro, ya que estoy seguro una dispensa existio consanguinidad por la linea Villegas o por ahi. Pero tenemos que encontrar mas datos para establecer esto. Cual Pedro tenias casado con Luisa de Villegas? Gracias

Saludos,

Daniel

Comentario

Especificamente, en la dispensa otorgada por Diócesis de Guadalajara, Matrimonios 1733-34, Imagenes 29-35

En la declaracion de Salvador Masias, imagen 30
"Salvador Masias originario de esta Villa hijo legitimo de Pedro Masias difunto y Juana de Esparsa...con Maria Macias asimismo española originaria y vecina de esta Villa hija legitima de Onofre Macias y Catalina Ruis de Esparsa ya que nos allamos ligados por ambas partes... T omas Masias y Nicolas Masias hermanos, procedierion de Thomas Masias..."

Como lo habia indicado antes, no se menciona la madre, esposa de dicho Thomas Macias Valades, la que fue una de mis preguntas originales, incluyendo su relacion con Pedro Macias Valades.

Jaime Alvarado

Comentario

Jaime,

La dispensa dice "Tomas Masias y Nicolas Masias hermanos, procedierion de
Thomas Masias, Pedro Masias mi padre, y del dicho Nicolas Masias, Onofre
Masias y de este Maria Masias mi pretensa'

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18414-20957-98?cc=1874591&wc…

La forma que esta escrito la dispensa puede hacer creer a uno que dice otra
cosa pero lo que REALMENTE dice en otras palabras es que Tomas Masias y
Nicolas Masias fueron hermanos. Thomas tuvo a Pedro Masias padre de Salvador
Masias. Nicolas tuvo a Onofre Masias quien tuvo a Maria Masias la pretensa
de Salvador Masias.

Saludos
Armando

2011/10/27 Jaime R. Alvarado

> Especificamente, en la dispensa otorgada por Diócesis de Guadalajara,
> Matrimonios 1733-34, Imagenes 29-35
>
>
> En la declaracion de Salvador Masias, imagen 30
> "Salvador Masias originario de esta Villa hijo legitimo de Pedro Masias
> difunto y Juana de Esparsa...con Maria Macias asimismo española originaria y
> vecina de esta Villa hija

Comentario

Armando,
Me parece que tienes la razon. Al leer el documento con cuidado me di cuenta de el error que cometi al mal interpretar el orden de las generaciones. Se que Pedro Macias Valades casado con Luisa Villegas tuvo un hijo Nicolas. No he encontrado registro de un hijo Tomas, pero es probable que, como sugirio Daniel, se trate de la misma familia. Creo que necesitamos algun otro documento que soporte esta hipotesis.

Saludos

Jaime Alvarado

Comentario

Estimado Daniel,

No tengo nada que prueba de quien fue hijo Pedro Macias Valadez. En el
registro de defunción y entierro de Pedro Macias el 22 de septiembre de 1649
dice que fue marido de Luisa de Villegas. Ellos tuvieron a los siguientes
hijos:

Catarina Macías Valadez y Villegas nacida ca 1615 cc Tomás de Villalobos y
Pérez de Nava
Juana Macías Valadez y Villegas 1617
Beatriz Macías Valadez y Villegas 1619 cc Hernando Martel
Nicolás Macías Valadez y Villegas 1621
Pedro Macías Valadez y Villegas 1625

No tengo a ese Tomás que mencionas como hijo de Pedro y Luisa. ¿Me pasas los
datos de él?

Saludos,
Armando

2011/10/27 Daniel Mendez de Torres

>
> Esta bien, mas bien no entendi muy claramente. Sin embargo tenia Luisa de
> Villegas como madre de Tomas Macias Valades. Ahora si Tomas y Pedro eran
> hermanos, mi conclusion seria que eran hijos de Pedro Macias Valades y Luisa
> de Villegas. No tenia Luisa casado con Pedro, ya que estoy seguro una
> dispensa existio consanguinidad por la

Comentario

Jaime,

No, no indica que son hijos de Tomas Macias. Con mucho respeto tengo que
decirte que estas equivocado y estas mal interpretando lo que dice en la
dispensa.

Saludos
Armando

On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 3:03 PM, Jaime R. Alvarado wrote:

> En la dispensa indica que Tomas y Nicolas son hermanos, hijos de Tomas
> Macias Valades.
>
> Jaime

Comentario

Hello George,

I don't have a direct answer but we might be able to figure out a few
things. I might be repeating some thing you may already know so I apologize
ahead of time if that is the case. The document states that there were two
impediments. One for a third degree of consanguinity, which means a
grandparent of the groom was the sibling of a grandparent of the bride. The
other impediment was for a fourth degree of consanguinity which means a
greatgrandparent of the groom was a sibling of a greatgrandparent of the
bride. In many cases this is all we are able to find without having
definitive proof of who they were. Sometimes using other records we can
deduce who those ancestors were. Since you have already traced the lineage
of one person we only need to trace the lineages of two more and we will
have the answer for the fourth based on the previous facts. Salvador Ruiz de
Esparza is going to be either a brother or a first cousin of Agustin Ruiz de
Esparza. If Salvador and Agustin

Comentario

Armando had asked that I give some more detail ... in doing so, I noticed I completely missed something! (I feel a bit silly missing something so obvious; I was too focused on the Macias and Ruis de Esparza families.) This couple has two descents from Luis de Alvarado and Beatris Lopes de Elizalde, which I think explains the 4th degree consanguinity.

Of the possible Macias or Ruis de Esparza connections, probably Ruis de Esparza is more likely.

The details (references 2, 3, and 4 are related to Maria Getrudis del Carmen's marriage, which is not included in this printout; also, I did not include all the other children of these families as that would make this much too long):

First Generation
1. Maria Gertrudis del Carmen Macias was christened (1) on 29 Sep 1735 in El Sagrario, Aguascalientes, AGS, México.

Second Generation
2. Nicolas Macias de Esparza was born about 1693 in Nueva España (México). He married (5,6) Gertrudis Ephigenia Macias de Esparza on 26 Feb 1730 in El Sagrario

Comentario

George,

According to what you have given us the 3rd degree consanguinity exists with
Luis de Alvarado and Beatriz Lopes de Elisalde. Their children María López
de Elizalde and Josepha de Alvarado are the 1st degree. Pedro Macias and
Onofre Macias are the 2nd degree. Nicolás Macias de Esparza and Gertrudis
Efigenia Macias de Esparza are the 3rd degree making them second cousins in
that regard.

Now with what Jaime Alvarado has given us we know that a 3rd degree
consanguinity is on the Macias side and the 4th degree is on the Ruiz de
Esparza side. That dispensa birngs into question the parents of Juana Ruiz
de Esparza which states the mother was Francisca de Esparza and not
Francisca de Vallin. That discrepancy should be investigated. Some records,
even dispensas, have errors at times and it is hard to tell which record has
the error. Even being closer the original date of the parties in question
doesn't always help.

Regards,
Armando

On Thu, Oct 20, 2011 at 12:01 AM, wrote:

>

Comentario

Jaime and Armando

Thank you very much for all this information; this is quite a lot to sort through!! While this clears up a lot, I need to back and look at all the sources.

The question of Francisca Ballin (or Vallin) does indeed need some thorough review.

Salvador Ruis de Esparza had a daughter Francisca who married Diego Vallin as her second husband. I wonder if the Francisca Ballin that I have as a spouse of Salvador Ruis de Esparza (and mother of Juana Ruis de Esparza) was somehow confused as a daughter; right now I am not sure where the name came from.

I'll check out my sources, and post my findings.

George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA

Comentario

George and Jaime,

It does sound like some people were misplaced on your report.

This is what I came up with as for that part of the family. Juana de Esparza
seems to de the daughter of Domingo Iriarte and Francisca Ruiz de Esparza
married 8 March 1649 Aguascalientes. Francisca was baptized 16 February 1625
in Aguascalientes whose parents were Salvador Ruiz de Esparza and María de
Vielma. As stated before Salvador Ruiz de Esparza was the son of Lope Ruiz
de Esparza and Francisca de Gabay.

Let me know if I have an error.

Saludos
Armando

On Thu, Oct 20, 2011 at 11:04 PM, wrote:

> Jaime and Armando
>
> Thank you very much for all this information; this is quite a lot to sort
> through!! While this clears up a lot, I need to back and look at all the
> sources.
>
> The question of Francisca Ballin (or Vallin) does indeed need some thorough
> review.
>
> Salvador Ruis de Esparza had a daughter Francisca who married Diego Vallin
> as her second husband. I wonder if the Francisca Ballin

Comentario

Armando,
I agree with your reconstruction. Not long ago Bill Figueroa, Daniel Mendes del Camino and I attempted to figure out whether Domingo de Iriarte was the father of Juana de Esparza. Since the name of Juana's parents are omitted both in the 'informacion matrimonial' and the marriage record to Pedro Macias Valades (but his were included), as well as the statement in Juana's burial identifying her as daughter of Salvador Ruiz Esparza and Francisca Ballin, I personnally suspected that perhaps Juana was an illegitimate child of Francisca. However, in absence of evidence, I have included her as child of Domingo de Iriarte and Francisca Ruiz de Esparza.

Sincerely

Jaime Alvarado

Comentario

Armando and Jaime

Thank you both for all that you have done to attempt to sort out this lineage.

There is both incomplete and conflicting information here.

It "seems" that the information most suspect is the information in Juana de Esparza's burial records. It does name her as the widow of Pedro Macias, but the parents named are not supported by any other information.

I think a possible explanation is that the informant had partial or incomplete knowledge and confused names. Her mother, Francisca Ruis de Esparza apparently had two husbands. We have the two marriage records, but the second marriage, to Diego Vallin, does not call her "viuda," which would be customary. We do not have a death or burial record for Domingo de Yriarte. There are no matrimonial investigations in the Aguascalientes records for her marriages.

If Juana were illegitimate, one of the missing documents would (or should) name her as "hija natural."

So, considering what we do have, and possible interpretations

Comentario

George Fulton,
I noticed in the previous discussion of a dispensation you questioned the relation of Francisca Ballin as daughter or wife of Salvador Ruis de Esparsa. In the baptism of the daughter of Salvador and Maria Veilma it mentions the Madrina as Ana Thomasina de Esparsa, sister of widower Salvador de Esparsa. Could it be possible there are two Franciscas, one his deceased wife; and one his daughter?

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-11824-52491-98?cc=1410092&…

I also wish to clarify if Lope R. de Esparsa and Francisca Gabay had two sons named Bernardo (Married to Catalina Losano) and Bernabe (married to Ana Ortis)?I located the Baptism for Bernabe and had assumed they were the same.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-11824-51657-98?cc=1410092&…

Thank you for you patience,
Deedra Corona

Comentario

Deedra

Of the Macias de Esparza and Ballin documents that we have (especially the dispensation), the evidence supports the fact that Francisca is the daughter of Salvador Ruis de Esparza; we also have documents for her marriages. The death/burial record for Francisca is likely in error, and the information is not supported by other data; it is possible to offer an explanation for what is there.

On the Barnardo/Bernave question, while I have not explored this in great detail, I think the data supports that these are two distinct persons. We have the baptism record for Bernave (but not Bernardo). We have marriage records for both Bernardo (1634) and Bernave (1643, which says he was 24 years old, if I read it correctly; and does not call him "viudo"). This suggests Bernave was born in 1619 (1643 - 24 = 1619) which is consistent with his known baptismal date. If Bernardo and Bernave are the same, Bernardo would be 15 or 16 when he was married in 1634, which I think is quite unlikely

Comentario

Bernabe Ruiz Esparza was chirstened in Aguascalientes on June 17th 1618

(Al margen) Bernabe +
en 17 de junio de 1618 años bauptize y pusse oleos a Bernabe hijo de Lope Ruíz de Esparza y de Francisca Gabadi fueron Padrinos doña Elvira de Pareds y Ju(an) Bauptista Ponse(?) vencinos desta Villa.
(Rubrica) Lorenzo Rodriguez

Es posible que su hermano Bernardo haya nacido antes de 1616, fecha de los primeros bautizos registrados en Aguascalientes.

Jaime Alvarado

Comentario

George,

I found an error in this genealogy based on the dispensa provided to us by
Jaime Alvarado. Juana Ruiz de Esparza married 29 Sep 1678 was not the
daughter of Salbador Ruis de Esparza and Francisca Ballin. She was the
daughter of Francisca de Esparza who was the daughter of Salvador de Esparza
brother of Bernardo de Esparza.

Regards
Armando

On Thu, Oct 20, 2011 at 12:01 AM, wrote:

> Armando had asked that I give some more detail ... in doing so, I noticed I
> completely missed something! (I feel a bit silly missing something so
> obvious; I was too focused on the Macias and Ruis de Esparza families.) This
> couple has two descents from Luis de Alvarado and Beatris Lopes de Elizalde,
> which I think explains the 4th degree consanguinity.
>
> Of the possible Macias or Ruis de Esparza connections, probably Ruis de
> Esparza is more likely.
>
> The details (references 2, 3, and 4 are related to Maria Getrudis del
> Carmen's marriage, which is not included in this printout; also

Parents of Juan Diaz Montanez & Teresa Carrillo Teocaltiche Jalisco

Looking for Parents of Juan Diaz Montanez & Teresa Carrillo Teocaltiche Jalisco.

Comentarios

Comentario

Hi, Claudia. María González de Rubalcava, aka María López (who married
Diego Carrillo de Sandi) was the daughter of Matheo González de Rubalcava
and Gerónima de Morales. Matheo was born in Pátzcuaro Michoacán (ca.1571)
the son of Alonso González de Rubalcava of México City, and Beatriz López de
Fuenllana of Pátzcuaro, Michoacán. When Gerónima de Morales died he married
Luisa de Avila 14 Jun 1622 at Parroquia de la Asunción de Aguascalientes
[Film 0299421 Marriages 1601-1662].

BILL FIGUEROA

Comentario

The parents of Juan Díaz Montañez were Miguel Díaz Montañez and Josefa Díaz,
married 7 April 1641 in Ojuelos-Pinos, Zac. (Source: "The Genealogy of Juan
Montañez and his descendants in Aguascalientes, San Luis Potosí and
Zacatecas," Published in the Society of Hispanic Historical and Ancestral
Research, Journal IV, (c) 1998 edited by Mary Lou Montagna and Ophelia
Marquez. The parents of Teresa Carrillo de Sandi were Diego Carrillo de
Sandi and María González de Rubalcaba, aka María López. The surname López
comes from her paternal grandmother Beatriz López de Fuenllana, daughter of
Juan López de Baeza, Conquistador.

----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Sunday, October 30, 2011 12:47 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Parents of Juan Diaz Montanez & Teresa
CarrilloTeocaltiche Jalisco

Looking for Parents of Juan Diaz Montanez & Teresa Carrillo Teocaltiche
Jalisco.
Children are: Maria Diaz Carrillo baptized 12-20-1672 Teocaltiche Jalisco;
Juana Diaz Montanez b. 6-11

Comentario

There is a Getrudis Dias, also known as Getrudis Dias Montanez (and possibly also as Getrudis Dias de Sandi), who was the wife of Jospha Lechuga.

They had a daughter, Maria Brigida Lechuga, who was baptized in Aguaslcalients (28 May 1714), but, according to her matrimonial investigation was from Teocaltiche.

I do not have a marriage date for Joseph and Getrudis, nor do I know their parents.

Is Getrudis related to this family?

George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA

Comentario

Hello Geroge,

I also have a son of Joseh Lechuga de Herrera and Gertrudis (I have her as Diaz Montanes de Sandi). Vicente Lechuga de Herrera married Josefa Flores de la Torre on 18 Oct 1734 in Teocaltiche, daughter of Cayetano F. de la T. and Juana de Contreras. I have no additional information on the Lechuga de Herrera family, their origin still is a mystery. They seem to be from Teocaltiche and from there passed into Aguascalientes and Lagos de Moreno.

Daniel Mendez Camino

Comentario

There is a likely candidate for Gertrudis Diaz Montanes. There is one baptized 25 Mar 1678 in Aguascalientes who fits the timeline daughter of Juan Diaz Montanes and Teresa Carrillo de Sandi; now all we need is a document to prove this connection.

Daniel Mendez Camino

Zacatecas Vital Statistics

Does anyone have the address and info for Birth Records for Jerez, Zacatecas?

I need to order my GrandFather's birth record.

Thanks for any infor that you can give me.

Jose Carlos de Leon

Comentarios

Comentario

https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/index#uri=https%3A%2F%2Fapi.f…

Jose Carlos, here's the link to Jerez from Family Search.

Alicia
San Jose, Ca

________________________________
From: "josecarlos1944@hotmail.com"
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Wednesday, November 2, 2011 6:19 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Zacatecas Vital Statistics

Does anyone have the address and info for Birth Records for Jerez, Zacatecas?

I need to order my GrandFather's birth record.

Thanks for any infor that you can give me.

Jose Carlos de Leon

Algo de interes sobre jerez

Encontre esta informacion en linea, tiene la decendencia de Pedro de Bobadilla hasta los 1900's

http://jerezzacatecas-salvador.blogspot.com/2009/07/decendientes-de-ped…

Comentarios

Comentario

Adrian:

Gracias por el vínculo a la información sobre Pedro Bobadilla.

Como con toda la información que encontramos en línea es importante verificar las fuentes.

En este caso, sé que hay varios errores. Por ejemplo, es imposible que Maria Haro y Saucedo haya nacido en España ya que Pedro Bobadilla llegó a Nueva Galicia soltero y he visto fuentes que su esposa, Maria Bobadilla o Saucedo (por quien fue nombrada la nieta) era indígena, así que ella tampoco hubiera nacido en España y los hijos de esta pareja tambien hubieran nacido en Nueva Galicia.

Maria Haro y Saucedo no puede haber sido hija de Alejos González y Magdalena Delgado ya que esta pareja se casó en 22 Nov 1666 y Maria Haro y Saucedo debe haber nacido antes de 1600.

http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/gedcom/getperson.php?personID=I68&tree=T…

Los hijos de Maria Haro y Saucedo y Juan de Miramontes nacieron en Tlaltenango y no Jerez.

Comentario

si tambien note lo de maria de bobadilla, ella tomo el apeido de su esposo, encomendero de tepechitlan, sinembargo de donde salio el o saucedo? y que documentos tiene sobre ella? gracias,

Adrian A. Bugarin

Help with translation of baptismal record

Hi,

Comentarios

Comentario

Sherry:
En los siguientes links encuentras informacion muy util para tu linea de los Xayme, de quienes desciendo por varias lineas, siendo emas antiguo que he encontrado George Xaymes

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18564-56934-53?cc=1874591&wc=12505434

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18564-60460-47?cc=1874591&wc=12505434
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18403-69808-57?cc=1874591&wc=12512794

_________________________________________________________
The following links are very useful information for your line of Xayme, from whom I descended by several lines, being the oldest I've found George Xaymes.

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18564-56934-53?cc=1874591&wc=12505434

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18564-60460-47?cc=1874591&wc=12505434
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18403-69808-57?cc=1874591&wc=12512794

Miguel Beltran
Lo que dás fructifica. Lo que te guardas se pudre.
What you give fruitful. What you keep

Comentario

A. P. y mat. no dan razon, meaning grandparents Paternos y maternos (paternal and maternal) they gave no information about it or names were not given up for the record. Next is the reference is to padrinos or godparents Luis Jayme y María Cuebas

 
Sincerely Leticia Leon

________________________________
De: "kanakalele@aol.com"
Para: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Enviado: Jueves, 27 de octubre, 2011 21:19:49
Asunto: [Nuestros Ranchos] Help with translation of baptismal record

Hi,
I'm hoping someone can help me with the baptismal record of Mauricia Munos Jayme dated 30 Sep 1834. Link:  https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18568-54957-94?cc=1874591&wc…; She is the "hija legitima" of Jose Munos and Maria de Jesus Jayme. I have found and viewed the films confirming 6 brothers and sisters. For some, the paternal grandparents have been listed as Jose Munos and Luiza Munos or just Luiza Munos (no mention of Jose or whether or not he was deceased) and this entry for

Comentario

It could also mean that they do not know who they are.

Saludos,

Eduardo H Seoane

On Fri, Oct 28, 2011 at 11:18 AM, Leticia Leon wrote:

> A. P. y mat. no dan razon, meaning grandparents Paternos y maternos
> (paternal and maternal) they gave no information about it or names were not
> given up for the record. Next is the reference is to padrinos or godparents
> Luis Jayme y María Cuebas
>
>
> Sincerely Leticia Leon
>
> ________________________________
> De: "kanakalele@aol.com"
> Para: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Enviado: Jueves, 27 de octubre, 2011 21:19:49
> Asunto: [Nuestros Ranchos] Help with translation of baptismal record
>
> Hi,
> I'm hoping someone can help me with the baptismal record of Mauricia Munos
> Jayme dated 30 Sep 1834. Link:
> https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18568-54957-94?cc=1874591&wc…
> She is the "hija legitima" of Jose Munos and Maria de Jesus Jayme. I have
> found and viewed the films confirming 6 brothers and sisters. For some

Comentario

All responses make sense. However, there is a difference between a translation and a meaning. I would translate those three words as 'they didn't say'. All meanings given are reasonable, but we do not know why they didn't provide the names of the grandparents. Sometimes there are several pages with the same phrase and I tend to think the priest or his 'teniente' (assistant or substitute priest) forgot to ask, among all the other reasons shared by the group.
In my humble opinion.

Angelina Casillas

Comentario

Todavía se puede escuchar en algunas personas "Dame razón de tu papá" Lo que significaría algo así como "Dime qué ha sido de tu papá"

"se fue sin dar razones" es algo así como: "se fue sin dar explicaciones"

"¿Cómo has estado? Dame razón" es algo así como "Cuéntame cómo has estado"

Espero haber ayudado.

Luis Arturo Huerta Rodrìguez

Comentario

Thank you to everyone for your help. With the films being available online, it really helps to find more clues and verify information. In viewing Mauricia's father's marriage record (Jose Munos to Maria de Jesus Jayme),see link: https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18564-60344-56?cc=1874591&wc… it may be that Jose was an "hijo natural". It's hard to tell if the letter is an "n" or an "l" with an ink spot. Unfortunately, the marriage information/investigation record is not online (many years are missing) so I can't get a second opinion. I've tried doing a search for the marriage information of Jose and Maria's children, hoping there may be a clue but I think that time period is not yet indexed. Just a reinforcement of how our volunteer efforts really make a difference. Thanks again to all who answered and for those that started this group.
Sherri Mora

Comentario

Hi Sherri,
It says the following:
Jose Munos originario y vecino de este curato en Guarachi hijo natural de Luiza Munos y Maria de Jesus Jayme originaria y vecina del mismo puesto hija legitima de Jose guadalup Jayme y de Maria de la Merced de Pedrosa. If you notice Rafael Jayme "Jaime" is the cura or parish priest, a relative of ours, not sure how. The Jaime family has never been fully studied and researched. I hope to at least look at it when I have more time.
Let me know if you need help. Whenever I help others I also learn.
In case you dont have this Martina Jaime Pedrosa was baptized 16 Nov 1811 in Encarnacion de Diaz.Grandaughter of Tadeo Jaime and Francisca Nieto; Joseph de Pedroza and Maria de Cuevas.
Daniel Mendez Camino

Comentario

Saul Navarro
After viewing the image you are asking about it says that of the Paternal and Maternal grandparents "no dan rason". Which translates to the fact that maybe when asked who were the grandparents of Mauricia, her parents refused to name them or no answer was given. I have seen this in other baptismal documents. The other abbreviation I saw was the padrinos were Luis Jayme and Maria Cuevas. Hope this helps Saul

Comentario

don't forget the fact that the mother was seldom at the baptism and it's probably the godparents who were asked and just didn't know the names of the grandparents.

________________________________
From: "hartparkangler@yahoo.com"
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Friday, October 28, 2011 12:12 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Help with translation of

Saul Navarro
            After viewing the image you are asking about it says that of the Paternal and Maternal grandparents "no dan rason". Which translates to the fact that maybe when asked who were the grandparents of Mauricia, her parents refused to name them or no answer was given. I have seen this in other baptismal documents. The other abbreviation I saw was the padrinos were Luis Jayme and Maria Cuevas. Hope this helps Saul

GuadalajaraDispensas: 1787 [*1784] FHL Source Film 168075 / OAH 2427

Posted at www.guadalajaradispensas.com
Please note Films 168074-168076 contain documents from the year 1784, but they are filed in 1787.

Comentarios

Información matrimonial de Juan Antonio Moreno y Ana María Galván

Hola a todos de nuevo:

Comentarios

Comentario

Hola Enrique.

Tengo una buena noticia. Estaba revisando el libro de Información
Matrimonial 1719-1720 cuando encontré el documento que estabas buscando.
Dice que Juan Antonio Moreno es hijo natural de Juan González Moreno y de
Luisa de Espinosa y Ana María Galván es hija de Joseph Galván y María
Lozano. Juan González Moreno se casó con Tomasina Gómez Portugal del Hierro
el 7 de enero 1692 en San Felipe, Guanajuato y era hijo de mis ancestros el
capitán Nicolás Moreno de Ortega Villegas y Mariana González de Hermosillo
González Florida hija de Juan González de Hermosillo Muñoz y Ana González
Florida hija de Francisco Gutiérrez Rubio y Ana González Florida I. Juan
González de Hermosillo Muñoz era hijo del Juan González de Hermosillo y Ana
María Muñoz naturales de la villa de Guadalcanal, Sevilla, España datos
proporcionados por Guillermo Tovar de Teresa y Sergio Gutierrez
http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/es/node/19948 Algunos otros datos tenemos
gracias a Victoriano Navarro que nos

Comentario

Armando:

Muchísimas gracias por no olvidarte de mi caso. Lo cierto es que no me había dado cuenta que habías contestado este tema de foro hasta que hoy en la noche me puse a revisar de casualidad el historial de respuestas. Realmente agradezco tu atención y he avanzado en esta rama que resulta ser una de las clásicas de la región alteña.
Está interesante eso de que era hijo natural y que menciona a sus dos padres, me imagino que porque era reconocido ya que en la mayoría de los documentos que me he encontrado casi siempre sólo se menciona el nombre de la madre. Sabes de alguna familia Espinoza que haya residido por aquel entonces la región a la que podría pertenecer mi antepasa Luisa de Espinoza?
Por el lado Galván me queda claro que no estamos muy lejos de saber las conexiones entre cada una de estas mujeres. Me parece que debieron haber sido primas o algo por estilo, tienes alguna idea de por donde podría iniciar la búsqueda con respecto a información adicional de los Galván aparte

Comentario

Hola Enrique:

Estoy de acuerdo, no queda claro quienes fueron los padres de tus ancestros
pero si es seguro que eran parientes de mis ancestros por Moreno de Ortega y
por González. También falta buscar mas datos por el lado Galván de Rojas. La
fundación de San Pedro Piedra Gorda (hoy manuel Doblado) "*se debe a Don
Juan Montañes de Ortega, administrador de las haciendas de los Jesuitas de
Valladolid (hoy Morelia) quien compró una caballería de tierra denominada
"Tierra Blanca" a Don Nicolás Galván de Rojas para donarla más tarde a la
Cofradía de Jesús Nazareno para que en ella se erigiera la parroquia y se
fundara el pueblo*".
http://www.ruelsa.com/gto/manueldoblado/manueldoblado.html

Los Galván de Rojas de Guanajuato casaron con varias familias de Lagos de
Moreno. Parece que el primero fue Alonso Galván de Rojas, h.l. de Alonso
Galván y Juana de Salcedo vecinos de Pénjamo, en 1653 con Luisa González de
Rodas, h.l. de Fulgencio González de Ruvalcaba y López de Fuenllana y Luisa
de

Comentario

Hola:

Armando te agradezco por tu tiempo, al parecer aún no nos queda bien claro quienes fueron los padres de mis ancestros, aunque seguramente eran parientes de los tuyos. Por el momento seguiré buscando esa información matrimonial, porque se supone que debería de existir ¿O sabes de casos especiales dónde no se escribía la información matrimonial? En última instancia, buscaré las actas de bautismo de sus otros hijos para ver si hay una pista. Si encuentro algún dato te lo haré saber.

Paty, como ves Armando es el experto en esta familia, tienes mucha suerte de que supiera de la existencia de esa dispensa que hace extender tu árbol genealógico. Si encuentro algún otro dato también te lo haré saber.

Hasta Pronto
Enrique Salvador Agraz

Comentario

Aprovecho este mail para darle las gracias a Armando, gracias a él ya logre
rastrear mis lineas hasta otro par de conquistadores,

Mil Gracias

2011/7/22

> Hola:
>
> Armando te agradezco por tu tiempo, al parecer aún no nos queda bien claro
> quienes fueron los padres de mis ancestros, aunque seguramente eran
> parientes de los tuyos. Por el momento seguiré buscando esa información
> matrimonial, porque se supone que debería de existir ¿O sabes de casos
> especiales dónde no se escribía la información matrimonial? En última
> instancia, buscaré las actas de bautismo de sus otros hijos para ver si hay
> una pista. Si encuentro algún dato te lo haré saber.
>
> Paty, como ves Armando es el experto en esta familia, tienes mucha suerte
> de que supiera de la existencia de esa dispensa que hace extender tu árbol
> genealógico. Si encuentro algún otro dato también te lo haré saber.
>
> Hasta Pronto
> Enrique Salvador Agraz

Comentario

Hola Enrique:

Me puedes dar los enlaces a las imágenes de todos los matrimonios y
bautismos de todos los hijos de Juan Antonio Moreno y Ana María Galván.
Puede ser que estamos emparentados por las dos familias Moreno de Ortega y
Galván de Rojas. Hay que revisar las haciendas y los padrinos para ver si
hay pistas. Estoy corto de tiempo y por eso no puedo buscar las imágenes.

Armando

2011/7/20

> Hola a todos de nuevo:
>
> Como recientemente publiqué en un tema de foro, hace pocas semanas encontré
> que mi ascendencia se conecta a la región Altos Norte de Jalisco. Ahora como
> estoy de vacaciones de la escuela, me es más fácil hacer la búsqueda
> genealógica.
> La cuestión que les traigo el día de hoy es acerca del matrimonio entre
> Juan Antonio Moreno y Ana María Galván, el cual se efectuó el 18 de
> Septiembre de 1718. En el libro de matrimonios no dice quiénes son los
> padres, sólo que el novio es originario de dicho lugar y que la novia es
> originaria de San Pedro Piedra Gorda

Comentario

Hola Armando:

Muchas gracias por tu ayuda. Aquí te dejo los links de las actas de algunos de sus hijos que aparecen en la base de datos de Familysearch, pero creo que estos son los hijos más grandes, en relación con la fecha en que se casaron.
Bautismos de los hijos:

José Román
https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.family…

María Eugenia
https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.family…

Juan Antonio
https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.family…

Nicolasa Antonia de la Trinidad
https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.family…

Manuel Silvestre
https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.family…

Comentario

Hola Enrique:

Los padrinos de Nicolasa Antonia fueron mis ancestros Nicolás Moreno de
Ortega Gallardo, hijo de Miguel Moreno de Ortega y González de Hermosillo y
de Catalina Guzmán Gallardo, y su esposa María Getrudis Moreno Gamiño hija
de Nicolás Moreno de Ortega Hermosillo y Manuela Hernández Gamiño González
de Ruvalcaba. Podrás ver mas sobre esta familia en
http://gw0.geneanet.org/index.php3?b=arman212_w&lang=es;p=nicolas;n=mor…
Es posible que Juan Antonio Moreno González fue hermano o medio hermano de
Nicolás Moreno de Ortega Gallardo.
Nicolasa Antonia, como otros, nació en la puesto (Hacienda) de Sta. Teresa
(ahora en La Unión de San Antonio) que era de los Moreno de Ortega fundada
en 1636 por Alonso Moreno de Ortega según el libro de Mario Gómez Mata y
respaldado por algunos registros de sus hijos. He estado recopilando datos
sobre las haciendas de Lagos en una pestaña llamada Haciendas en
https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key

Comentario

hola,
Entre mis ancestros de lagos tengo a Miguel Moreno nacido en 1718 hijo de
Antonio Moreno y Cathalina Gutierrez y hasta ahi llego.... me podrán ayuar
con esta rama???

Mil Gracias

Patty Haro

2011/7/21 Armando

> Hola Enrique:
>
> Los padrinos de Nicolasa Antonia fueron mis ancestros Nicolás Moreno de
> Ortega Gallardo, hijo de Miguel Moreno de Ortega y González de Hermosillo y
> de Catalina Guzmán Gallardo, y su esposa María Getrudis Moreno Gamiño hija
> de Nicolás Moreno de Ortega Hermosillo y Manuela Hernández Gamiño González
> de Ruvalcaba. Podrás ver mas sobre esta familia en
>
> http://gw0.geneanet.org/index.php3?b=arman212_w&lang=es;p=nicolas;n=mor…
> Es posible que Juan Antonio Moreno González fue hermano o medio hermano de
> Nicolás Moreno de Ortega Gallardo.
> Nicolasa Antonia, como otros, nació en la puesto (Hacienda) de Sta. Teresa
> (ahora en La Unión de San Antonio) que era de los Moreno de Ortega fundada
> en 1636 por Alonso Moreno de

Comentario

Hola Paty,

Con muchísimo gusto te voy a tratar de ayudar. Según hay una dispensa el 31
de Mayo 1728 en el microfilm 167991 para Joseph Alexandro Moreno de Ortega,
viudo de Juana María Maldonado por 5 años h.l. de Antonio Moreno y Catarina
Gutierrez con María Cornelia Hurtado h.l. de Joseph Moreno y Micaela de Anda
cual dice que Antonio Moreno fue hijo de Beatriz Zermeño.
Se sabe que el esposo de Beatriz Zermeño fue Juan Moreno de Ortega Villegas
hijo de Alonso Moreno de Ortega y Josefa Villegas Rodas. Juan y Beatriz
casaron el 21 de octubre 1672. Beatriz fue hija de Juan Vázquez Zermeño Lara
y de María Teresa Anda Altamirano y Ruiz de Nava. Podrás ver mas sobre
Antonio Moreno y Cathalina Gutierrez y sus antepasados y algunos
descendientes en la siguiente página
http://gw0.geneanet.org/index.php3?b=arman212_w&lang=es;p=antonio;n=mor…
Desafortunadamente todavía no doy con los padres de Catarina Gutíerrez.

Saludos,
Armando

2011/7/21 patty haro

> hola,
>

Comentario

Mil Gracias!!!, sabía que algo deberian de tener por ahi de info voy a
checar la dispensa y veremos q mas podemos conseguir...
Me da mucha emoción poder conseguir mas datos ya en generaciones tan lejanas

2011/7/21 Armando

> Hola Paty,
>
> Con muchísimo gusto te voy a tratar de ayudar. Según hay una dispensa el 31
> de Mayo 1728 en el microfilm 167991 para Joseph Alexandro Moreno de Ortega,
> viudo de Juana María Maldonado por 5 años h.l. de Antonio Moreno y Catarina
> Gutierrez con María Cornelia Hurtado h.l. de Joseph Moreno y Micaela de
> Anda
> cual dice que Antonio Moreno fue hijo de Beatriz Zermeño.
> Se sabe que el esposo de Beatriz Zermeño fue Juan Moreno de Ortega Villegas
> hijo de Alonso Moreno de Ortega y Josefa Villegas Rodas. Juan y Beatriz
> casaron el 21 de octubre 1672. Beatriz fue hija de Juan Vázquez Zermeño
> Lara
> y de María Teresa Anda Altamirano y Ruiz de Nava. Podrás ver mas sobre
> Antonio Moreno y Cathalina Gutierrez y sus antepasados y algunos
>

Comentario

hola,
Buscando la dispensa, me encontré esta, creo que he leido esos nombres por
aqui, asi que si a alguien le interesa:

Matrimonio: 1 enero 1728

Cayetano Bernardo de Hermosillo hijo de Diego Ildefonso Glz de hermosillo
con Juana Alderete
con
Felipa Barbara Moreno Rodriguez hija de Ildefonso Moreno Ortega y Ana Rgz
Portugal

https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.family…

Espero le sirva a alguien!!!

2011/7/22 patty haro

> Mil Gracias!!!, sabía que algo deberian de tener por ahi de info voy a
> checar la dispensa y veremos q mas podemos conseguir...
> Me da mucha emoción poder conseguir mas datos ya en generaciones tan
> lejanas
>
> 2011/7/21 Armando
>
>> Hola Paty,
>>
>> Con muchísimo gusto te voy a tratar de ayudar. Según hay una dispensa el
>> 31
>> de Mayo 1728 en el microfilm 167991 para Joseph Alexandro Moreno de
>> Ortega,
>> viudo de Juana María Maldonado por 5 años

Retoños de España en la Nueva Galicia

Los libros están empezando a agotarse. si alguien los desea por favor pónganse en contacto conmigo para informarles de los detalles.

Comentarios

Comentario

Raúl,

Un par de preguntas:

El tomo Nº 8 incluye información del apellido Michel ? Cuántas páginas o líneas de texto ?

En caso de adquirir la colección, tengo un primo que vive en Tonalá. Me imagino que no tendrías inconveniente en que él pasara a recoger os libros a tu domicilio. Es así ?

Gracias !

Felipe Michel Olmo

> To: announce@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: ivraga@prodigy.net.mx
> Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2011 11:14:25 -0700
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Retoños de España en la Nueva Galicia
>
> Los libros están empezando a agotarse. si alguien los desea por favor pónganse en contacto conmigo para informarles de los detalles.
>
> Ya se enviaron libros a Miguel Beltrán (migueltran@gmail.com) por si desean referencias mías.
>
> El costo de los libros es de alrededor de 90 DLS y de paquetería sería tentativamente $130.00 USD, máximo unos $150.00 USD en caso de variar el precio (el dolar está cambiando mucho últimamente).
>
> Si te interesa y quieres comunicarte conmigo

"brick walls"

At the Nueva Galicia Genealogical Society conference held March 6, 2010, they had a "brick wall" demo family tree with paper cut-out leaves on it.

Comentarios

Comentario

I'd like to submit my brick wall as well. My main one, is that of the Montalvo family. I gave the history that I know of them in my introduction.

Isabel Montalvo
+ Maria Huerta. Married on or before 1860

Their children were:

1. Maria Librada Montalvo Huerta was born on 20 Aug. 1860 in Villanueva, Zac.
2. Maria Marcos Montalvo Huerta was born on 9 Oct. 1861 in Villanueva, Zac.
3. Maria Paula Montalvo Huerta was born on 20 June 1863 in Villanueva, Zac.
4. Josefa Montalvo Huerta.
5. Maria Magdalena Montalvo Huerta was born on 24 July 1866 in Villanueva, Zac.
6. Julio Montalvo Huerta was born on Apr. 1868 in Villanueva, Zac.
7. Pedro Montalvo Huerta was born on Jan. 1871 in Villanueva, Zac.
8. Maria Sotera Montalvo Huerta was born on 18 Apr. 1874 in Villanueva, Zac.
9. Clemente Montalvo Huerta was born on Nov. 1880 in Villanueva, Zac.
He married Patricia Cabral Rojas.
10. Antonio Montalvo Huerta.

Of these all, Clemente is my great grandfather. Of his siblings, I know that

Comentario

Have you ordered the films for these records? Its important to alwaysorder the film, (unless it available on LABS) its possible that the grandparentsare listed on the baptismal record especiall after 1800 they started including the grandparents, only if they would have included grandparents around 1500 to nowwould genealogy be glorious! Note: I ran a search and it appears your Maria Huerta'sful name is Maria Macaria Huerta.
Daniel
_________________________________________________________________
The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox.
http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL…

Comentario

Great Idea!!

Let's all contribute our 'Brick Walls'

Phyls Esparza

----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 6:26 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] "brick walls"

> At the Nueva Galicia Genealogical Society conference held March 6, 2010, they had a "brick wall" demo family tree with paper cut-out leaves on it. The idea was that a member could write down on a paper leaf his/her "brick wall" in his own genealogy research and perhaps someone else would choose his/her leaf and help break through it. I think it's a great concept, except that it might've been better to let any and all choose the same leaf.
>
> My question is this: since we already experience daily with questions from various members, why couldn't each of us create a file/folder listing our own "brick walls" in it? These files could stay permanent and updated as needed.
>
> Perhaps other members could browse through these files and find one that they could tackle and help break through it?

Comentario

I thought I'd add my "brick wall" to this board in hope of learning something new. I have been able to trace my father's family (Mora) using films at the FHC to Pedro de la Mora and his wife Antonia Martin del Campo. He is the father of Jph. Raphael de la Mora according to the marriage record of Raphael to Ma. Nicolasa Delgado on 8 Feb 1796 La Encarnacion, Encarnacion de Diaz, Jalisco. He was 22, so his birth was about 1776, 2 years before films for this area are available.
I may have some leads for more family members. Rafael (spelling now changes in records) and Nicolaza have a son, Jose Leandro Mora Delgado and he is baptized on 12 Mar 1797. The Padrinos (Godparents)are: Antonio de la Mora and Chatarina Berdin (also Verdin). I found their marriage certificate as well as some of their children and many of the Padrinos of their children as well as other "de la Mora"'s are shared. (I will gladly share all this information with anyone who can help but I will spare the majority as

Comentario

I'm not clear whether you looked at IGI data for film #634019 via batch #s
J602485 & K602485. A quick scan on my part didn't turn up anything, but you
may have more luck scanning it for unusual spellings of the surnames. Good
luck. -Raquel

Comentario

Thanks Raquel. The information that I have is from searching IGI data and then viewing films. The only films I have not yet seen are from Teocaltiche. I've only been doing genealogy for a little over a year so I guess I'm asking if there are other resources in addition to IGI and films. Also what is the difference between a film number and a batch number? Can a film have more than one batch number or vice versa? I looked on the familysearch.org site and I'm still unsure. Thanks again for your response.

Sherri Mora

Comentario

Dear Sherri:
I was online, so thought I would step in and try to explain. The LDS has over 300,000 films. The film number is the number used to order a particular film. All films have a film number, sort of like the call numbers on books in the library.

Some of the films have been extracted into on online database, which is search-able. So while all films have film numbers for which you are able order, only certain films have been extracted, and part of the information on the records are available online. The LDS members are constantly adding new batches. If a film has a batch number, then you may go onto the familysearch.org website and search that film, person by person if you wish. If an ancestor does not come up for you in familysearch, it does not mean the records are not available, it just means their records have not been batched or the entry was made with an alternative spelling. Sometimes it pays off to go through the batch by hand. Sometimes it pays off to

Comentario

It does appear to me that each film is associated with one batch number.
Batch numbers are what you can use to access a list of the records extracted
from the film. Ideally, it should include all the entries on the film. You
can access the complete list by either going to our website and clicking
films, then locating the state, then city, then film number, and clinging
the IGI option. That will get you to the total list. That is useful
because there are often mulitple spellings of the same surname or extraction
errors in the spellings. Or you can note the batch number, go to
familysearch.org, click Search Records, click Advanced Search, click
International Genealogical Index (side bar), and complete the boxes. You
can just put the Region and Batch Number and you will get the whole list
again. If you only put in the Region, Batch Number and a surname, you will
get a list of extracts that have that surname listed as the first
surname. The more info you input, the more finite

Comentario

I have a juan de la mora hermosillo married to margarita Martin del campo from the same time in my records.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: kanakalele@aol.com
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 21:39:29
To:
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Submitting my "brick wall"

I thought I'd add my "brick wall" to this board in hope of learning something new. I have been able to trace my father's family (Mora) using films at the FHC to Pedro de la Mora and his wife Antonia Martin del Campo. He is the father of Jph. Raphael de la Mora according to the marriage record of Raphael to Ma. Nicolasa Delgado on 8 Feb 1796 La Encarnacion, Encarnacion de Diaz, Jalisco. He was 22, so his birth was about 1776, 2 years before films for this area are available.
I may have some leads for more family members. Rafael (spelling now changes in records) and Nicolaza have a son, Jose Leandro Mora Delgado and he is baptized on 12 Mar 1797. The Padrinos (Godparents)are: Antonio de la

Comentario

Thanks to the addition of the Jalisco films and more indexing, I was able to break through my brick wall!I was able to piece everything together and found that Pedro and Manuel were brothers. With that break, I have been able to continue backward. Once again, I find that I share family members with Daniel. There is so much information that once I get my source citations entered, I will repost. The most helpful hint that I can give to other researchers is if you find information that you REALLY think is important but you have yet to find the documentation, start another tree until the pieces come together. In the beginning, I put everything together thinking that I would remember what was sourced and what was not. WRONG. I now have a sourced tree and a working tree and it's so much easier.

Sherri Mora

Comentario

Great Idea!!

Let's all contribute our 'Brick Walls'

Phyls Esparza

----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 6:26 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] "brick walls"

> At the Nueva Galicia Genealogical Society conference held March 6, 2010, they had a "brick wall" demo family tree with paper cut-out leaves on it. The idea was that a member could write down on a paper leaf his/her "brick wall" in his own genealogy research and perhaps someone else would choose his/her leaf and help break through it. I think it's a great concept, except that it might've been better to let any and all choose the same leaf.
>
> My question is this: since we already experience daily with questions from various members, why couldn't each of us create a file/folder listing our own "brick walls" in it? These files could stay permanent and updated as needed.
>
> Perhaps other members could browse through these files and find one that they could tackle and help break through it?

Comentario

Another of my "brick walls"; as my primo, Arturo Ramos, once stated to me 2 years ago, "Welcome to my world!".

I hope this clarifies my original post!

I need help on who Antonio Lopez and Michaela de Robles parents were.

Outline Descendant Report for Antto. Lopez
..... 1 Antonio Lopez b: Abt. 1700
..... + Michaela de Robles b: Abt. 1700
........... 2 Juana Maria Manuela Lopez b: Abt. 1728
........... + Bartholome de Leon b: Sep 1728 in San Luis Colotlan, Jalisco, Mexico, m: 17 Jul 1747 in San
Luis, Colotlan, Jalisco, Mexico
................. 3 Joseph de Leon b: Feb 1748 in San Luis, Colotlan, Jalisco, Mexico
................. 3 Faustina Francisca de Leon b: 1749
................. 3 Petra Maria de Leon b: May 1750 in San Luis, Colotlan, Jalisco, Mexico
................. 3 Margarita Gertrudis de Leon b: 1755
................. + Bernardo Anto. Medeles b: Abt. 1752, m: 21 Jun 1775 in San Luis Colotlan, Jalisco,
Mexico
................. 3 Jose Manuel Chrisogono de Leon b: Abt. 1756

Comentario

MY BIGGEST CHALLENGE YET:

Francisco de la Cruz is my 7th great grandfather and his son Manuel (a mestizo)is the "first" DE LEON and Josepa de Escobedo ( an Espanola), great grandaughter of Francisco de Escobedo, founder of Monte Escobedo in Zacatecas. I need to know Francisco de la Cruz and Catalina de Garibai's parents.

Outline Descendant Report for Francisco de la Cruz
..... 1 Francisco de la Cruz b: Abt. 1650, d:
..... + Catalina de Garibai b: Abt. 1650, d: Bef. 1753
........... 2 Manuel de Leon b: Abt. 1671
........... + Josepha de Escovedo b: Abt. 1671, m: 19 Feb 1692 in Tlaltenango De Sanchez Roman,
Zacatecas Mexico, d: Bef. 1753
................. 3 Ygnacia de Leon b: Abt. 1702 in Tlaltenango, Zacatecas, Mexico, d: Bef. 1768
................. + Cristobal Valenzuela b: Abt. 1700 in Tlaltenango, Zacatecas, Mexico, m: 12 Feb 1722 in
San Luis, Colotlan, Jalisco, Mexico
................. 3 Maria de la Cruz de Leon b: Abt. 1711
................. + Cristobal Lozano b: Abt. 1711, m

Comentario

Another one: I need help on finding parents for Pedro and Maria.

Outline Descendant Report for Pedro Montoya
..... 1 Pedro Montoya b: Abt. 1790
..... + Maria Magdalena Ayala b: Abt. 1790, m: 14 Aug 1810 in Monte Escobedo, Zacatecas, Mexico
........... 2 Rosalia Montoya b: Abt. 1816
........... + Josse Catarino Covarrubias b: 01 Dec 1816 in San Luis, Colotlan, Jalisco, Mexico, m: 21 Jan
1836 in San Luis, Colotlan, Jalisco, Mexico
........... 2 Ma. de la Consepcion Montoya b: 01 Jan 1818 in Huejucar, Jalisco, Mexico
........... 2 Ma. Leandra Montoya b: 03 Mar 1822 in San Luis Colotlan, Jalisco, Mexico
........... 2 Jose Concepcion de la Santisima Montoya b: 12 Dec 1823 in San Luis Colotlan, Jalisco,
Mexico

Jose Carlos de Leon

Comentario

I'm going to add/update other "brick walls" to this note.

I need help on finding Eugenio, Cleta, and Micaela's parents: It's possible that Cleta and Micaela were sisters because when a person was widowed, it was a common practice to marry a sibling of the deceased spouse. In this way, family real estate/ fortunes were kept uncontested.

Outline Descendant Report for Eugenio Carlos
..... 1 Eugenio Carlos b: Abt. 1760 in District Of Jerez, Zacatecas Mexico
..... + Cleta Garcia b: Abt. 1770 in District Of Jerez Zacatecas Mexico
........... 2 Jose Jesus Carlos b: Abt. 1790 in Jerez De Garcia Salinas, Zacatecas, Mexico
........... + Matiana Rafaela (Maria) Alcala b: 21 Sep 1798 in Cienega De Arriva, Jerez Zacatecas
Mexico
........... 2 Pedro Carlos b: Abt. 1785 in District Of Jerez, Zacatecas Mexico
........... + Juana Maria Banuelos b: Abt. 1788 in District Of Jerez, Zacatecas Mexico
..... + Micaela Garcia b: Abt. 1790 in District Of Jerez, Zacatecas Mexico
........... 2 Estevan Carlos b

Comentario

I think it is a great idea.
About 15 years ago a had a brick wall on my gutierrez line. I stopped working on it to help a friend with his gemnealogy. After I helped him with his I realized that the diego gutierrez I had helped him with was the same miguel gutierrez that I had been looking for and that his name was diego Miguel Gutierrez. Diego miguel had 2 marriages and I descended from one and he from the other. It was only by helping him out that I found the line that I had been looking for.
Count me in.
------Original Message------
From: jcdl1944@hotmail.com
Sender: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
ReplyTo: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] "brick walls"
Sent: Mar 15, 2010 4:26 PM

At the Nueva Galicia Genealogical Society conference held March 6, 2010, they had a "brick wall" demo family tree with paper cut-out leaves on it. The idea was that a member could write down on a paper leaf his/her "brick

Comentario

This is a wonderful Idea!!!!

--------------------------------------------------
From:
Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 7:26 PM
To:
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] "brick walls"

> At the Nueva Galicia Genealogical Society conference held March 6, 2010,
> they had a "brick wall" demo family tree with paper cut-out leaves on it.
> The idea was that a member could write down on a paper leaf his/her "brick
> wall" in his own genealogy research and perhaps someone else would choose
> his/her leaf and help break through it. I think it's a great concept,
> except that it might've been better to let any and all choose the same
> leaf.
> My question is this: since we already experience daily with questions
> from various members, why couldn't each of us create a file/folder listing
> our own "brick walls" in it? These files could stay permanent and updated
> as needed.
>
> Perhaps other members could browse through these files and find one that
> they could tackle and help break

Molola

I wrote mina molola in my search browser and found something that hope it works, here is the link to it:

http://mexico.infomine.com/properties/listings/33570/LA_TRINI__MOLOLOA…

Comentarios

Comentario

The mine has nothing to do with the hacienda La Mololoa in what is now
Encarnación de Díaz. The mine is 100 km west of Guadalajara near
Hostotipaquillo, Jalisco. The locations that Monica is researching are Lagos
de Moreno and Encarnación de Díaz which are about 179 km north-northeast of
Guadalajara.

Miguel Beltran who is from Encarnación had already given us the answer to
the location Monica was inquiring about which is:
"Santa Maria" hacienda was approximately. at latitude, longitude : 21.4275,
-102.188 (You can search with these coordinates in googlemaps.com) and the
"la Mololoa" hacienda must be at an unknown point to the northeast, by a
small river (which starts approximately at GPS coordinates 21.568, -102.0)

Miguel is the one to listen to when it comes to anything in Encarnación de
Díaz.

Using the info Miguel gave us I found the same Santa Maria in Encarnación de
Díaz in http://mexico.pueblosamerica.com/jalisco/encarnacion-de-diaz/ It is
now broken up into Santa María de

Comentario

Miguel,

Se cortó el enlace en dos lineas. No se si haya sido por culpa de gmail. De
todas formas pude abrir la página copiando todo luego pegándolo en la barra
de dirección de mi navegador. Hice un enclace mas corto por si alguien mas
tiene problemas de abrir la página.

http://tinyurl.com/4xh9qx7

Estupendo trabajo por cierto y es algo que tenia planeado de hacer.

Miguel,

The link was cut into two lines. I don't know if it was due to my browser or
not. I was still able to copy it all and paste it into the address bar of my
browser. I made a shorter link in case anyone has problems with it.

http://tinyurl.com/4xh9qx7

That was great work of making a Google map of the ranches and haciendas in
the vicinitiy of Encarnación de Díaz,

Saludos
Armando

2011/10/28

> En el siguiente enlace hay un mapa en el que marque la ubicacion de algunas
> de las haciendas, puestos o ranchos cercanas a Encarnacion de Diaz
>
>
> http://maps.google.com/maps/**ms?ie=UTF&msa=0&msid=
>

Comentario

If I read the page correctly, this mine is about 100 km north west of Guadalajara, which puts it in the general area of Lagos de Moreno/Encarnacion de Dios.

This is consistent with what several of us posted a few days ago.

George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA

Thanks to Don Mariano Gonzalez-Leal

My father and I now are in possesion of Retoños de España en la Nueva Galicia and he (well and me too)was very moved by reading his genealogy Cos Y Leon and to see his name and all of his children n

Comentarios

Comentario

Does the book cover names of Miguel and Matheo Tadeo? You are so fortunate to have your dad and to celebrate another year! How wonderful he can enjoy the new book and collaborate on the history. May he enjoy his birthday and have many more!!

Comentario

Beautiful. Thanks for sharing. Please wish your father an extra happy
birthday!

Raquel Ruiz

On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 8:32 PM, wrote:

> My father and I now are in possesion of Retoños de España en la Nueva
> Galicia and he (well and me too)was very moved by reading his genealogy Cos
> Y Leon and to see his name and all of his children names printed in a book
> for tha first and maybe the last time and ask me to give big thanks to the
> author and all colaborators. He is amazed, and also I am. He enjoys every
> morning of reading it, he is an eager to learn reader by nature. His
> white-pinkish face went almost purple and his expression was that of cry and
> laugh at the same time as I open the III volume and started reading his name
> in the Cos Y Leon section. He use to seat at the dining room by the wide
> window, where the morning sun light allows his one day to be 89 years old
> eyes, to read better. Tomorrow he will be 89 an appreciate very much this
> event of books as one of

Comentario

Thank you Raquel
 
Sincerely, Leticia Leon

________________________________
De: Raquel Ruiz
Para: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Enviado: Viernes, 28 de octubre, 2011 4:02:38
Asunto: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Thanks to Don Mariano Gonzalez-Leal

Beautiful.  Thanks for sharing.  Please wish your father an extra happy
birthday!

Raquel Ruiz

On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 8:32 PM, wrote:

> My father and I now are in possesion of Retoños de España en la Nueva
> Galicia and he (well and me too)was very moved by reading his genealogy Cos
> Y Leon and to see his name and all of his children names printed in a book
> for tha first and maybe the last time and ask me to give big thanks to the
> author and all colaborators. He is amazed, and also I am. He enjoys every
> morning of reading it, he is an eager to learn reader by nature. His
> white-pinkish face went almost purple and his expression was that of cry and
> laugh at the same time as I open the III volume and started reading his name
> in the

Coleccion de Libros

Hola,
Quisiera saber si toda la coleccion de Retonos de Espana contiene informacion
sobre familias de los altos solamente o tambien incluye familias de otras
regiones de Nueva Galicia?

Comentarios

Libro/Book "Efemerides de Lagos de Moreno" - Mario Gomez Mata

Recientemente se ha publicado un buenisimo libro de Mario Gomez Mata: Efemerides de Lagos de Moreno.

Comentarios