Non Spanish in 1612 Mexico

It's very interesting and a first for me.  All I can make out are the names.
Can anyone tell what language is used in these Huichapan, Hidalgo baptism records?
Perhaps one of the many languages s

Comentarios

Comentario

Yes, this is the part in the article that states that Spanish Friars of that era in Huichapan spoke and wrote in the Otomi language:

"Classical Otomi" is the term used to define the Otomi spoken in the early centuries of colonial rule. This historical stage of the language was given Latin orthography and documented by Spanish friars who learned it in order to proselytize the Otomi peoples. Text in Classical Otomi is not readily comprehensible, since the Spanish speaking friars failed to differentiate the varied vowel and consonant sounds of the Otomi language.[5] Friars and monks from the Spanish mendicant orders such as the Franciscans wrote Otomi grammars, the earliest of which is that of Friar Pedro de Cárceres' Arte de la lengua othomí [sic], written perhaps as early as 1580, but not published until 1907[13][14] In 1605, Alonso de Urbano wrote a trilingual Spanish-Nahuatl-Otomi dictionary, which also included a small set of grammatical notes about Otomi. The grammarian of

Comentario

Thanks, Emiie. 
What great information; this is what makes genealogy a learning process.  Everyone should check out the Huichapan Codex.  Terrific. 

--- On Wed, 6/20/12, Emilie Garcia wrote:

From: Emilie Garcia
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Language
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Wednesday, June 20, 2012, 1:16 AM

Yes, this is the part in the article that states that Spanish Friars of that era in Huichapan spoke and wrote in the Otomi language:

 
"Classical Otomi" is the term used to define the Otomi spoken in the early centuries of colonial rule. This historical stage of the language was given Latin orthography and documented by Spanish friars who learned it in order to proselytize the Otomi peoples. Text in Classical Otomi is not readily comprehensible, since the Spanish speaking friars failed to differentiate the varied vowel and consonant sounds of the Otomi language.[5] Friars and monks from the Spanish mendicant orders such as the Franciscans wrote Otomi

Cristobal Magallanes Jara

Does anybody in the group have a copy of Esteban Valdes Salazar's pamphlet on Saint Cristobal Magallanes Jara's genealogy? I know that somebody in the group shared a scan of the cover with me early on... but I was wondering if someone had the content as well... particularly the Magallanes side. I have the Jara side from Esteban Valdes' Jaras de Totatiche book going pretty far back... That is available in my online database if anyone is interested:

Comentarios

Comentario

Yes, I do, Arturo. When I get a chance, I'll send you a scanned copy.

Rosalinda

-----Original Message-----
>From: Arturo Ramos
>Sent: Feb 28, 2006 7:42 AM
>To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
>Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Cristobal Magallanes Jara
>
>Does anybody in the group have a copy of Esteban Valdes Salazar's pamphlet on Saint Cristobal Magallanes Jara's genealogy? I know that somebody in the group shared a scan of the cover with me early on... but I was wondering if someone had the content as well... particularly the Magallanes side. I have the Jara side from Esteban Valdes' Jaras de Totatiche book going pretty far back... That is available in my online database if anyone is interested:
>
>http://www.ramosfamily.org/nextgen/pedigree.php?personID=I730

Comentario

Does anybody in the group have a copy of Esteban Valdes Salazar's pamphlet on Saint Cristobal Magallanes Jara's genealogy? I know that somebody in the group shared a scan of the cover with me early on... but I was wondering if someone had the content as well... particularly the Magallanes side. I have the Jara side from Esteban Valdes' Jaras de Totatiche book going pretty far back... That is available in my online database if anyone is interested:

http://www.ramosfamily.org/nextgen/pedigree.php?personID=I730

Question About For Greater Glory Movie

I know a lot of people in this group have lived or traveled in Jalisco and the Los Altos region.  Sadly, I am not one of them.  I am curious if anybody recognized any of the locations that appeared

Comentarios

Comentario

Alice,

Here is a list of the filming locations for that film:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1566501/locations

They filmed in Mexico City (even in the Chapultepec Castle), Puebla, Durango, San Luis Potosi, and Sombrerete in Zacatecas. My father used to talk about Sobrerete and Fresnillo. He was born in Jerez, but he left Mexico in 1913 when he was 10 years old, so he was not there during the Cristiada wars.

Emilie
Port Orchard, WA

------------------------------------

> Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 12:11:57 -0700
> From: alice_wissing@yahoo.com
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Question About For Greater Glory Movie
>
> I know a lot of people in this group have lived or traveled in Jalisco and the Los Altos region. Sadly, I am not one of them. I am curious if anybody recognized any of the locations that appeared in the film "For Greater Glory"? I tried searching on the Internet for specific information regarding filming locations but

expuesto y criado en la casa

Hi

I sometimes see this phrase:

EXPUESTO Y CRIADO EN LA CASA

What does it mean in English?

For whoever can help me with it, thanks!

Denise

Comentarios

Comentario

Denise,
The phrase means: "Raised in the house of", a child the was not a natural born to the family.
You can find many other useful phrases in "COMPILATION Of COLONIAL SPANISH TERMS And DOCUMENT RELATED PHRASES" at www.somosprimos.com/spanishterms
Good luck!
Esteban Pedroza

> From: research-request@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Research Digest, Vol 77, Issue 13
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 15:07:47 -0700
>
> Send Research mailing list submissions to
> research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
>
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>
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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>
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>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Research digest..."

Comentario

For clarification, some questions for the group along this same line:
Expuesto y criado en la casa means left at your door
step and raised by the household, but what surname was the child given?
Hijo natural meant the child was born out of wedlock, but the mother kept him and raised the child; was he given the mother's surname?
Padres no conocidos means the child was left at the church's doorstep?  Or "found" and brought in for baptism?  There are often padrinos named in these cases.  Was the child given their surname?
Thanks so much.  Alice
 
 
--- On Fri, 6/15/12, ESTEBAN Pedroza wrote:

From: ESTEBAN Pedroza
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] EXPUESTO Y CRIADO EN LA CASA
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Friday, June 15, 2012, 11:10 AM

Denise,
The phrase means: "Raised in the house of", a child the was not a natural born to the family.
You can find many other useful phrases in "COMPILATION Of COLONIAL SPANISH TERMS And DOCUMENT RELATED PHRASES" at www.somosprimos.com

Comentario

>
> Does not always mean that they were not known at all. Sometimes it a scribe would write that if Bride or groom was from out of town or long deceased. Some scribes did write the information if it was provided but some felt that if they did not have first hand knowledge of who they were then they would write padres deconocidos.
I had originally thought that padres deconocidos was a dead end but I have been able to find out who the parents were on more than a few occasions. Sometimes it took a lot of work and time. But on a couple occasions it was relatively quick.
Rick A Ricci

Comentario

Thanks, Rick.  How interesting!  I always thought padres no conocidos meant literally that they were not known, or intentionally being ignored because of less than "accepted" circumstances at birth. 
I haven't run into this in my family lines, but do run into it all the time researching.  Although, I did come across my 6grgrandfather, Miguel Anaya Villagran, as "huerfano" on his informacion matrimonial.  So I wonder if those are his actual surnames, nevertheless, it created a brick wall for me.   Thanks so much,  Alice
--- On Sat, 6/16/12, mygenes2000@yahoo.com wrote:

From: mygenes2000@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] padres no como idols
To: "research@nuestrosranchos.org"
Date: Saturday, June 16, 2012, 5:55 PM

>
> Does not always mean that they were not known at all.  Sometimes it a scribe would write that if   Bride or groom was from out of town or long deceased.  Some scribes did write the information if it was provided but some felt that if they did  not have

Comentario

Rick,

That's very interesting ... I also thought "padres no conocidos" was a dead
end. What about the term "alias" ... I have a case in which the person's
name is written as "Dn Jose Felipe de Jesus Ruiz (alias Carrillo)" ... has
anyone else come across this?

-Angelina-

Comentario

That is what I thought it meant. Thanks for the clarification, Alicia.

Comentario

It means the child was abandoned and left at their doorstep and raised in the home or hacienda where it was left.

Alicia,
San Jose, Ca

________________________________
From: "hernandez.fastrup@gmail.com"
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2012 10:06 AM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] expuesto y criado en la casa

Hi

I sometimes see this phrase:

EXPUESTO Y CRIADO EN LA CASA

What does it mean in English?

For whoever can help me with it, thanks!

Denise

Delgadillo

I hope this is the correct place to post a subject for assistance/discussion.
There is an entry for my maternal GGGG grandfather Ignacio Delgadillo in the following location:

The Cristero period and "For Greater Glory"

The movie brought back some memories of my Garcia-Vallejo families stories of that era and how it affected them. Most of both familes left their towns during this horrific period.

Comentarios

Comentario

Dear Carmen, thank you for sharing your family's stories. It must have been very sad for them indeed, obviously.
A couple years ago I started tracing my roots and traveled to Tepatitlán and Los Altos, bringing back a bunch of books. I read Anacleto Gonzalez Flores, by Alberto Casillas, among many others. Needless to say, it hurts, very much so. He was executed. Then the group hired the general to train and lead the Cristeros. Exactly how and why he was killed is still not clear to this day. I became interested when I accidentally found the general's father's death record in Family Search in Texas. So I naturally traced all his family, some my dear relatives today. Both Anacleto and General Gorostieta are well documented in Wikipedia now. Anacleto's is much more complete in Spanish.
The movie, while often historically inaccurate, was very good because it shed light on the issue. There have been many books written in spanish by those who witnessed that war first hand, whose parents and

New Member / Munoz

My name is Raul Bracamonte Munoz and I'm thrilled to be a new member of the Nuestros Ranchos familia.

Comentarios

Comentario

Welcome Raul, what name is your file under?  I checked Raul Bracamontes and Raul Munoz and found neither one. I also research in Jerez, Zacactecas as well as Jalisco and Michoacan and would love to compare your Jerez records to share and learn..
thank you
Linda Castanon-Long

________________________________
From: "rlm99x@yahoo.com"
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2012 11:44 AM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] New Member / Munoz

My name is Raul Bracamonte Munoz and I'm thrilled to be a new member of the Nuestros Ranchos familia.

While my research takes me to many places within northern Mexico, a key focus area for me is Villa de Cos and the surrounding haciendas.  I also have an interest in Sierra Hermosa, Jerez, Fresnillo, and the city of Zacatecas.

Within these areas of Zacatecas, the primary family names I am researching are: Munoz, Vasquez del Mercado, Rodriguez and Sanchez.
Before 1850, I also have an interest in Rodarte, Gonzalez de Solis

Comentario

Raul,

I have no information on Estanislada Menchaca but I do on Andres Menchaca (son of Joseph Menchaca Baesa and Juana Flores de Vega), husband of Rosa Jimenez. I descend from the brother of Andres, Joseph Antonio Menchaca Baesa, through the De Hoyos and Valdes side of my paternal grandmother. If you're interested I can send you what I have of these lines. I haven't posted this info in Nuestrosranchos since it is not related to Aguascalientes, Jalisco or Zacatecas.

Check out the following site: www.sanbuena.com

There you will find some information on the Rodartes. According to Horacio Dominguez, who is the site's owner, Sotero Hernandez Menchaca (related to me also) wrote a book titled "La Dinastia Rodarte", bullfighters.

Do a google search as follows: rodarte site:"www.sanbuena.com"

Saludos,

BERNARDO MENCHACA

Comentario

Thank you, Bernardo. I would appreciate anything you can send me. It looks like you and my wife have some common ancestors. Most of her family (Adame, Jurado, Falcon, Velasco, and Cadena)can be traced to Coahuila.

I'll follow up on the other sites as well.

Raul Munoz

Comentario

Raúl,

Bienvenido and good luck!

Are you related to the Rodarte bullfighters that lived in San Buenaventura, Coahuila, but were originally from Aguascalientes?

BERNARDO MENCHACA

Comentario

Bernardo, thanks for the welcome. I have to admit I'm pretty clueless when it comes to the Rodartes outside of Villa de Cos and Jerez. I can take them as far as Mateo in the early 1600's, but haven't followed the line outside the area.

If your family line hails from San Buenaventura, there's a good chance there may be a connection to my wife's family. Estanislada Menchaca married Macario Adame sometime in the 1880's. Macario being her great great uncle.

She's also directly related to the family of Andres Menchaca and Rosa Jimenez dating back to the early 1700's. I believe they were in or around Monclova.

Raul Munoz

Hard to read Marriage doc of Jose Maria Romo and Sirilda/Cirilia Santos assistance, please

The scribe at this church has interesting penmanship, that I am having a hard time reading.

Marriage of Jose María Romo and Sirilda Santos (hard to read document)
10 Mar 1820

Comentarios

Comentario

Pedro Romo Español soltero de Cobos (a rancho) hijo legitimo de Pedro Romo
y de Antonia Santoio (Santoyo) con Sirilda Santos Española Doncella de
dicho rancho (Cobos) hija legitima de Florentino Santoyo y de Josefa Marques

Saludos
Armando

On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 7:27 PM, wrote:

> The scribe at this church has interesting penmanship, that I am having a
> hard time reading.
>
> Marriage of Jose María Romo and Sirilda Santos (hard to read document)
> 10 Mar 1820
> El Sagrario,Aguascalientes,**Aguascalientes,Mexico
> https://familysearch.org/pal:/**MM9.3.1/TH-266-11709-81325-1?**
> cc=1410092&wc=6810707
>
> I hope that the link works..
> information is on pages 30-218 to 31-218
>
> I cannot read their parents names clearly:
> Pedro Romo-father
> ? -mother
> where in the city?
>
> which Rancho did Sirilda/Cirilia Santos come from?
>
> Florencino? Santos-father
> ? - mother
>
>
> Maybe I am trying too hard, my eyes are crossed...
>
> Thank you,
> Debra Perez

Comentario

Adrián Márquez Padilla

Jose Maria Romo y
Sixilda Santos

En la Iglesia Parroquial de la Villa de Aguascalientes en diez de marzo de mil ochocientos veinte. Yoel teniente de cura Don Francisco Carrillo case y no vele (VP) a Jose Maria Romo, Español soltero de Cobos hijo legitimo Pedro Romo y de Antonia Santoyo, con Sixilda Santos, Española doncella de dicho rancho hija legitima de Florencio Santos y de Josefa Marquez, dieron información de su libertad y solteria, se amonestaron en tres dias festivos que lo fueron el seis, trece y veinte del pasado fueron testigos Juan Valadez y mariano Fuente y lo firme

Comentario

Thank you Adrian for writing out what the document says.

I am attempting to translate who Sixilda/Sirilad/Cirilia Santos is according to the words:
Española doncella de dicho rancho
when I go into different translation programs it varies

The spanish maid of the house-meaning she is spanish and works at the house

The spanish maiden of the house-meaning she is the spanish maiden of the house

The maid of the spanish household-she only works at the house and is not of spanish descent

They had three days of festivities the 6th, 13th and 20th. That seems to be quite a celebration.

I realize this is a formal document. I did not grow up with formal spanish speaking/writing skills. My first excitement with actually finding the names has now grown while attempting to read the documents and finding out the areas where they lived within Aguascalientes. It is like a mystery novel. Plus decoding the notes made by the scribe, Mestizo, Indio or Espanol and others that I have yet to

Comentario

Debra,

The ultimate authority on the Spanish languange is the Real Academia
Española. They have an online dictionary that can be accessed at
http://rae.es/rae.html

The definition that pertains to the marriage record is
*1. * f. Mujer que no ha conocido varón.

A woman that has not known a man. In other words a virgin.

The following site was provided to you in a different response and is also
a good reference http://www.somosprimos.com/spanishterms/spanishterms.htm

Días Festivos -
In todays Spanish dias festivos are Holidays. However, it obviously had a
different meaning in previous centuries. Maybe it meant weekend days.
However, it was not three days of festivities. They were three days in
which the announcement that the marriage was going to take place and if
anyone had any information that the wedding shouldn't take place they could
provide that information to the church. The provisions for marriage under
the Council of Trent were also read to the bride and groom and to the

Need help from the experts on how to read the surnames on this marriage information

The following is what I received from one of the California Missions of my ancestors on their marriage:

Comentarios

Comentario

The way the information is written doesn't make much sense. Probably it is an uncomplete transcription.

I have seen baptism records where they don't write the surname of the grandfather (just the given name) but they write the full name of the grandmother. I think they used to do this since it was obvious that the surname of the grandfather was the same as the one of his child.

There was not such thing as a maiden name, women would keep their birth-name after marrying. They still do.

When a widow would get married, they usually did not write the names of his parents, just the name of his late wife. The same was true for the widows.

I think Jesus Celaya was a female, named either Jesusa or Maria de Jesus.

The way it was transcribed, Jose & Pabla (Paula) Gastelo could be the parents of either the widower or of his late wife. It is hard to guess. Same for Pedro & Concepcion Ortiz. Maybe if you had an image of the original document it would be easier to figure this out.

Best

Comentario

Thank you for your answers and suggestions. It's been frustrating trying to find out what California Mission has what records on file and when I find the right Mission, I receive something like this. For example, my ancestors married at the San Gabriel Mission in 1859 but the San Fernando Mission is the one that has their records on file; not San Gabriel nor Santa Barbara Mission as they are listed on the Missions' website to contact them for the old records. My next step is to go through the city (Los Angeles) requesting a copy of their marriage record.

Thanks again for your response. Anna Miklovic

On Jun 14, 2012, at 7:54 PM, mnavarrovillalobos@yahoo.com.mx wrote:

> The way the information is written doesn't make much sense. Probably it is an uncomplete transcription.
>
> I have seen baptism records where they don't write the surname of the grandfather (just the given name) but they write the full name of the grandmother. I think they used to do this since it was obvious that the

Ysabel Miramontes

Hola, I was wondering if anyone knew when Ysabel Miramontes and Andres Martines Correa got married. i cant find their info, they lived in tlaltenango in the 1600's, any help is appreciated

Comentarios

Comentario

Sent from my Verizon Wireless Phone

sr92809@sbcglobal.net wrote:

>Thank you guys for the replies. I found two or three children
>for Ysidro Miramontes and Bernarda de Avila but did not see a
>Teodoro so I'm not really sure.
>My great-grandmother was born in Coculiten. Her name was
>Tomasa Miramontes. She was baptized in Momax, Zac. on
>Sep. 20, 1887. Her parents were Juan Miramontes and Refugio
>Carlos.
>
>Gustavo

Comentario

Sent from my Verizon Wireless Phone

sr92809@sbcglobal.net wrote:

>Thank you guys for the replies. I found two or three children
>for Ysidro Miramontes and Bernarda de Avila but did not see a
>Teodoro so I'm not really sure.
>My great-grandmother was born in Coculiten. Her name was
>Tomasa Miramontes. She was baptized in Momax, Zac. on
>Sep. 20, 1887. Her parents were Juan Miramontes and Refugio
>Carlos.
>
>Gustavo

Marquez de los Olivos en Colotlan

Does somebody have any further information (marriage date, parents' names) for the following couple who lived in Colotlan, Jalisco in the early 1700s?

Comentarios

Comentario

Lorenza Florentina casada con Juan Ignacio Peres montes mas o menos por 1740
Josefa Marquez de los Olvos casada con Florencio Sanchez Castellanos masn o menos 1735 no he podido ubicar las fechas de nacimiento y Matrimonio las dos matrimonios en Jerez Zacatecas
SALVADOR CABRAL VALDES

Comentario

Juan Francisco Sanchez Alvarez

El 13 de marzo de 1708 se casan Juana Sanchez Castellanos y Juan Marquez de los Olivos en Monte Escobedo. Tambien hay informacion de Florencio Sanchez Castellanos y de sus hijos en Monte Escobedo, por ejemplo el 5 de junio de 1745 muere Juana Maria hija de Florencio y Josepha

Comentario

Hello Arturo,

Well, I don't have additional information on their ancestors but I do have additional information on their descendants. You may have already looked at it but just in case...here are my files: http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/13945
Select the "Descendant View" and half way down you should see "Phelipe MARQUES DE LOS OLIBOS and Francisca Xaviera SANCHEZ".

Good luck on your search,
Angie Godina

Comentario

Hi Arturo, my cousin Victor Renteria his on here too, descends from the Sanche Castellanos same place his ends around 1750. What do you have on this family? He is on a mission to our hacienda, gathering info for two weeks. Well I descend from the Marques de los Olivos too..I dont think your Felipe was born in Colotlan he prob came from somewhere else. Ill keep looking. -Daniel Camino

Not sure if this guy is related but getting the record might give a clue

PHELIPE MARQUEZ
Pedigree

Male

Family

Event(s):

Birth:

Christening:

Death:

Burial:

Marriages:

Spouse:
JUANA GETRUDES DE LUNA
Family

Marriage:

12 MAY 1727
San Luis, Colotlan, Jalisco, Mexico

_________________________________________________________________

New Member Intro-Roque/Uruza Aguascailentes, Aguascalientes

Hi everyone,
The adventure to finding my family roots continues!
Any tips that you might share will be appreciated.
I am taking baby steps with my Roque family.

Comentarios

Comentario

So far I have found the following:

Border crossing:
Andres Roque-Urzua Birth Date: 21 Feb 1931 Birthplace: Ags Accompanied by:
Mother Telesfora Urzua-villalobos
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XLRZ-R4M

Border crossing:
Telesfora Urzua-Villalobos Birth Date: 05 Jan 1887 Birthplace: Ags Ags
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XGHY-96R

You need to find a baptism or birth certificate of a child of Pedro Roque
and Telesfora Ursua to confirm the following:

Possible parents for Telesfora are:
Francisco Ursua Romo and Regina Villalobos Esqueda
08 May 1880 El Senor Del Encino,Aguascalientes,Aguascalientes,Mexico
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-11560-70286-38?cc=1410092&…

Baptism for Regina Villalobos Esqueda
18 Sep 1863
EL SENOR DEL ENCINO,​AGUASCALIENTES,​AGUASCALIENTES,​MEXICO
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-11873-63856-56?cc=1410092&…

Baptism for Francisco Urzua Romo
04 Apr 1861
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-11873

Comentario

Armando,

Thank you for this treasure of information about my Grandfathers Family.
We (my sister & I) are still doubling checking the dates and names.

with many thanks,
Debra Perez

The following information matches with our info.

Border crossing:
Andres Roque-Urzua Birth Date: 21 Feb 1931 Birthplace: Ags Accompanied by:
Mother Telesfora Urzua-villalobos
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XLRZ-R4M

Border crossing:
Telesfora Urzua-Villalobos Birth Date: 05 Jan 1887 Birthplace: Ags Ags
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XGHY-96R

You need to find a baptism or birth certificate of a child of Pedro Roque
and Telesfora Ursua to confirm the following:

Possible parents for Telesfora are:
Francisco Ursua Romo and Regina Villalobos Esqueda
08 May 1880 El Senor Del Encino,Aguascalientes,Aguascalientes,Mexico
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-11560-70286-38?cc=1410092&…

Baptism for Regina Villalobos Esqueda
18 Sep 1863
EL SENOR DEL ENCINO,​AGUASCALIENTES

Comentario

Debra,

You're welcome. To find the parents of Pedro Roque you should look for
baptisms and church marriages on and after 1903 at the following location

https://familysearch.org/search/image/index#uri=https%3A%2F%2Fapi.famil…

The civil records are at the following site:

https://familysearch.org/search/image/index#uri=https%3A%2F%2Fapi.famil…

Saludos
Armando

On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 2:02 PM, wrote:

> Armando,
>
> Thank you for this treasure of information about my Grandfathers Family.
> We (my sister & I) are still doubling checking the dates and names.
>
> with many thanks,
> Debra Perez
>
> The following information matches with our info.
>
> Border crossing:
> Andres Roque-Urzua Birth Date: 21 Feb 1931 Birthplace: Ags Accompanied by:
> Mother Telesfora Urzua-villalobos
> https://familysearch.org/pal:/**MM9.1.1/XLRZ-R4M
>
> Border crossing:
> Telesfora Urzua

Haciendas

Where can I locate a listing or map of the Old Haciendas that used to exist around Amatitian, Jalisco.

Valdivia Family

I am trying to find information on my husband's maternal grandfather, Emilio Valdivia. His father was Tomas Valdivia, and his mother was Secundina Ramos.

Comentarios

Comentario

Kathy,

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NXDD-9HN - This link is for Jose Maria Valdivia of Monte Escobedo, Zacatecas most likely one of Emilio's siblings

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NXDD-NQF - For Jose Emilio Valdivia of Monte Escobedo, Zac - another sibling.

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/VPKV-JHY - From the California Death Index

You might also try Nochistlan Zac and Jalpa Zacatecas, Huanusco, Tabasco etc.

Hope this helps,

Alicia,
San Jose, ca

________________________________
From: "kathy_gutierrez@sbcglobal.net"
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Monday, June 11, 2012 8:21 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Valdivia Family

I am trying to find information on my husband's maternal grandfather, Emilio Valdivia. His father was Tomas Valdivia, and his mother was Secundina Ramos. Does anyone have these names in their family tree?

Emilio Valdivia was in the seminary in Totatiche at the time of the Cristero War, and had to leave to avoid being

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Kathleen Gutierrez

Alicia,

I can't thank you enough for the information you sent. Jose Maria Valdivia is my husband's grand uncle. Jose Emilio Valdivia it my husband's grandfather. I don't know why they used the Jose first name because his first name is Emilio. We know that his grandfather's name was Jose, so maybe is was just for the baptism. I also found another brother, Doroteo Valdivia born in 1893. Now I can keep looking in the Monte Escobedo area for more family members.

If you come across any more Valdivias, please let me know. The search goes on!

Kathy
Orange, CA

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Kathy,

The naming is pretty typical. Most males were Jose and most females were Maria as in Joseph and Mary of the bible. Enjoy the search, glad I was able to help, now go to the appropriate film numbers as noted to see the actual baptismal records.

Alicia,
San Jose, Ca

________________________________
From: "kathy_gutierrez@sbcglobal.net"
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2012 10:34 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Valdivia Family

Kathleen Gutierrez

Alicia,

I can't thank you enough for the information you sent. Jose Maria Valdivia is my husband's grand uncle. Jose Emilio Valdivia it my husband's grandfather. I don't know why they used the Jose first name because his first name is Emilio. We know that his grandfather's name was Jose, so maybe is was just for the baptism. I also found another brother, Doroteo Valdivia born in 1893. Now I can keep looking in the Monte Escobedo area for more family members.

If you come across any more Valdivias

"For Greater Glory": any reviews??

I have not had a chance to see this film yet, as I was out of town (in a rather rural area of MA).
Has anyone seen this film since it's June 1st opening? If so, can you provide a review?

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I recently found out that my great-grandfather's brother was a priest in Zacatecas during this horrible time, so it was very hard to sit through this movie. I am thankful that they made a movie about this subject matter, so these stories are not forgotten.

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My family and I saw this today and found it to be a wonderful and historically accurate film in terms of clothing and mannerism. In Mexico, families who lived in the areas, especially around jalisco, where the Cristeros were most active, still have horrible stories. In Ejutla there is a statue of the Father Rosales who was hung from a mango tree and later Beautified.

Unfortunately some who claimed to be with the Cristero movement were nothing more than bandits. Some people recall as children hiding for days in nearby caves after their homes were ransacked and their parents murdered in front of them.

If you go; be sure to stay after the actual movie is over to see the old photos and
read about the outcome of each person portrayed in the film.

Deedra Corona

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Kathy Gutierrez

I saw this movie as a sneak preview about a year ago. It was an amazing movie at that time. We got to give our comments and have a discussion with the producers at the end of the movie. I told them that I felt it was an important movie because it was about a little know time in the history of Mexico. I asked quite a few people in my family about the Cristeros and no one, except the elderly generation on my husband's side of the family who actually fled Mexico at that time, knew about it. I have been encouraging everyone I know to go see it! I am going to try to go and take my husband this weekend to see the movie. Let us know what you think about it when you see it!

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Kathy Gutierrez

I saw this movie as a sneak preview about a year ago. It was an amazing movie at that time. We got to give our comments and have a discussion with the producers at the end of the movie. I told them that I felt it was an important movie because it was about a little know time in the history of Mexico. I asked quite a few people in my family about the Cristeros and no one, except the elderly generation on my husband's side of the family who actually fled Mexico at that time, knew about it. I have been encouraging everyone I know to go see it! I am going to try to go and take my husband this weekend to see the movie. Let us know what you think about it when you see it!

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I saw this movie yesterday, and I cried all the way through at the atrocities, the bravery of one only 12 and one over 80 that chose to die rather than go against their beliefs while cowards capitulated to save their own skins. Not being a devout Catholic, I was still outraged that such a thing as hanging Christians and priests and banning mass happened not so long ago, though I was not yet born. I don't care for any orgaized religion, but I care very much about justice and freedom to worship as one pleases as long as no one forces those beliefs on others.

I am against theocracies, but hangings and executions of innocent people and robbing them of freedom is no way to guard against them. Calles had his reasons in his mind since he had helped to overthrow a despotic regime and blamed the Catholic church for injustices, but he turned into as bad if not worse a dictator than his predecesor.

I think the movie was well done, not so "Hollywoodized" as I thought it would be. My

Maria Guadalupe Martinez, Pablo Martinez, Gertrudis Romo, Ynojos

Hi

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Denise Fastrup

Thanks for the responses!I am a little wiser now. Its fun to learn something new about the regions where I have roots, though I will probably never see it...

Regards,
Denise

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It says "María Guadalupe española que nacio en el puesto de las tortugas"

Puesto, labor, and ranchito are somewhat interchangeable words.

Tortugas is located in San José de Gracia according to the following page
http://mexico.pueblosamerica.com/i/tortugas/

Saludos
Armando

On Tue, Jun 12, 2012 at 1:36 PM, wrote:

> Hi
>
> Here is the baptismal record of Maria Guadalupe Romo. I am in serious
> doubt about the name of the place, as a google search does not turn it up.
> If anyone has the time to check out the link to the image and correct what
> might be a mistake, I would much appreciate it.
>
> Regards,
> Denise
>
> https://familysearch.org/pal:/**MM9.3.1/TH-267-11810-117977-**
> 65?cc=1410092&wc=6810029
> Mexico Catholic Church Records, AGS AGS Sagrario, Baptisms 1781 - 86 image
> 110.
>
>
> Baptism 10 March 1784
>
> Maria Guadalupe espanola, born at Puenta de las Tortugas (?), 27 febr.,
> legitimate dau. of
> Pablo Martinez and
> Gertrudis Romo,
> residents of said Puenta
>
>

De Udave Family

I have been working in the last months searching the family roots of my mother's mother. Here are my findings. I hope this information is helpful (source: family search).

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Hello Gabriela

Basque Country consists of the provinces of Álava, Guipúzcoa and Vizcaya.
Ruiz de Esparza and Udabe are from Navarra where there are a lot of people
that speak Euskera (Basque language). Romo de Vivar is from the town of
Vivar in the province of Burgos in Castilla y León.

The información matrimonial might have his parents names if there is one.
Have you looked for it at the following page?

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-19040-11180-26?cc=1874591&wc…

I am unable to find the marriage record in film 639755. Which image number
is it found in?

María Josefa Romo was the granddaughter of Luis Romo and Maria Ana Ruiz who
had Maria Dolores, Maria Faustina, and Antonio (the father of Maria Josefa
Romo). Maria Faustina was baptized 20 Feb 1748 in Teocaltiche. Any idea who
the parents of Luis Romo and Maria Ana Ruiz were? If not I would suggest to
also search for them in the above volume of información matrimonial and the
following one -

https:/

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I found the marriage record of Joseph Manuel de Udabe and Marsela de
Esparsa after all. The margin has incorrect information which had caused me
to pass it up. It is the second on the right of image 20 at the following
page.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-19052-58132-8?cc=1874591&wc=…

Joseph Manuel tresalvo was the son of Isidro de Udabe mestizo and María de
la Rosa de la Serda española. Marsela de Esparsa was the daughter of
Salvador de Esparsa and Juana Delgado difuntos españoles.

Saludos
Armando