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I came across a dispensation record for Antonio Peralta and Manuela Munoz dated March 16, 1787. Manuela is the daughter of my 5th great grandfather. There seems to be a lot of drama associated with this document. I think I have the jest of it, but unfortunately my Spanish (even with the help of my on line translator) isn't good enough to be absolutely certain I understand the issue.

I'm not looking for a complete translation, but if someone can take a look at it and tell me what this was about, I would appreciate it. I'm particularly interested in the testimony of Refugia Munoz and Rafaela Munoz. Thanks.

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18403-37383-96?cc=1874591&wc…

Hello Everyone, I wanted to pass on some exciting news. I have recently discovered and confirmed I am a descendant of Juan Gonzalez de Hermosillo, he is my 10th grandfather.

All this could not have been possible without the help of Armando Antunano, I am forever grateful to him for all of his efforts and patience with my questions.

My family is from "La Villa" San Jose de Bazarte, near Tepatitlan, here is my line from my Grandfather on.

I look forward to meeting my extended family and am having a great time researching Guadalcanal, it looks like a beautiful place.

Best,

Robert~

Generación 1
1 - Francisco González Casillas 1902
Generación 2
2 - Gregorio González Casillas 1868
3 - Teodicia Casillas Alonzo
Generación 3
4 - Encarnación González Jimenez ca 1835
5 - Josefa Casillas Gómez
Generación 4
8 - Martín Luciano González Tostado 1776
9 - Antonia Jimenez Gómez
Generación 5
16 - José Julián González de Hermosillo y Anda Altamirano 1721
17 - Juana Francisca Álvarez Tostado y Macías Valadez
Generación 6
32 - Juan González de Hermosillo y Rentería Mojica ca 1680
33 - Juana de Anda Altamirano y Morán de Ledesma
Generación 7
64 - Melchor González de Hermosillo y González de Ruvalcaba 1643
65 - Francisca Rentería Mójica y Arias de Orozco
Generación 8
128 - Melchor González de Hermosillo González Florida ca 1620-
129 - Beatriz González de Rubalcava y Rodas 1616-
Generación 9
256 - Juan González de Hermosillo Muñoz ca 1591-ca 1666
257 - Ana González Florida ca 1594-1672
Generación 10
512 - Juan González de Hermosillo †
513 - María Muñoz †

I am curious as to how much or how far education reached in our villages? Our ancestors would have had to register themselves when they attended schools. So I am curious if there are any archives on school registry to track down what schools our ancestors went to during the colonial period?

Juan Avila (abt 1690) married Josepha Ximenes (1693) and had children between 1714 and 1734. In the marriage documents of his children, he is listed as Juan De Avila Maldonado. However, the only Maldonado/Avila connection I can find is 3 generations earlier when a Juan De Avila De Salazar married a Maria Maldonado and had children between 1620 and 1644. Is there any possibility of a connection between these generations?

because my Family Tree is too large (over 16,000 individuals) I cannot load it here at Nuestros Ranchos.

Instead I have it on RootaWen.com. This is a FREE site for everyone. The name of my tree there is " jalisco_families "

and the website for it is:

http://worldconnect.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=jalisco_fa…

Josrph de Leon

Dear Members,

I need your assistance to locate records of my ancestors in Zacatecas during the 1800's. I have names from baptismal records and once I've cross into the 1700's I find records on Family Search. Where do I go to receive information of the 1800's?

I'm also hitting a wall once I'm into the late 1600's. I would so appreciate information on how to proceed.

In chilly Colorado,
Carolyn

Hola compañeros, alguien de ustedes sabe quienes son los padres de Cornelia Ruiz de Velazco, mujer de Cristóbal Becerra (1647 aprox. Jalostotitlán). Hoy encontré que desciendo de esta pareja por su hija Catarina Ruiz de Velazco, quien casó el 05 de febrero de 1698 en Ayo el Chico, Jalisco, México con Nicolás Barajas de Oleas, hijo de Juan Barajas y Juana de Oleas.

Tampoco tengo mas datos de Juan Barajas y Juana de Oleas; ¿Alguno de ustedes tiene mas información?

L.C.P. Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.
Tepatitlán de Morelos, Jalisco, México.
Tel.: 3781095311
www.facebook.com/jorgeluis.ramirezgomez

_________________________________________________________________
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www.vivirmessenger.com

Hi,
I just got my Geno2.0 results and my ethnic percentiles are similar to those from US citizens of Mexican descent. My Y-DNA haplogroup was reassigned as R-CTS4065 (R-P310 according to FTDNA) and my direct paternal line comes from Coahuila, although according to one source this Navarro family may have originated in Jalisco.
I tried to convert the Geno2.0 data in order to analyze it with DIYDodecad but I guess I'm doing something wrong since when I try to run the program I get an error message. I have previously run it with FamilyFinder files with no problem. Has anybody tried this successfully?
Best regards,
VN

I have read interesting information about the history of the earliest Tlaltenango inhabitants. I believe the Avilas were also among the earliest settlers so I am most curious as to their place of origin. Puebla? Mexico City? This information could help me in my research. Thank you.

Dear friends:
I have been researching my lineages from Lope Ruiz de Esparza in Aguascalientes for a couple of years now.
I have one lineage descending from Salvador R. de E. and Maria Vielma, and one descending from Luis TIscareño and Lorenza R. de E. Sadly, neither of these is my name-bearing lineage.
I can trace my name-bearing lineage back to a man named Antonio Paulin Esparza Macias, who was married to Costansa Pedroza Acosta in Aguascalientes on 14 April 1733.
I have their marriage documents from Aguascalientes. According to these, he is the illegitimate child of Getrudis Macias and either Ygnacio Esparza (marriage record) or Antonio Esparza (marriage information). I tend to think that Ygnacio is correct, while the reference to "Antonio" Esparza is an error on the part of scribe. Antonio Paulin appears to go by the name Paulin Macias in these documents. In later documents, principally the baptism records of his children, he is listed as Antonio Paulin Esparza. Both his parents are listed as deceased at the time of the marriage.
I cannot find a baptism record for Antonio Paulin, so I do not have a birth date. Costanza Pedroza was baptized on 4 April 1700, and was a resident of Hacienda San Bartolome.
Being illegitimate, I realize that Antonio Paulin's baptism record may be difficult, if not impossible, to find. A search of the FamilySearch.org database produced no results. I have been reading through the baptism records for Aguascalientes hoping to find an orphan named Antonio Paulin, so far without luck.
So if anybody has ever worked in this area of the family tree, I'd appreciate any thoughts you might have on the subject.
There at least 3 potential Ygnacios, that I can find, to be Antonio Paulin's father. One, the son of Martín R. de E., was married in 1651, which would put him in his 70s when Antonio Paulin was likely born. Another, the son of the former Ygnacio's brother, Martín R. de E., was married in 1685, but didn't die until 1738, after the marriage of Antonio Paulin and Costansa in 1733, when the records say that Antonio Paulin's father was already deceased.
The third possible Ygnacio Esparza was baptized 4 April 1681, the son of Tomas Esparza and Maria Montañes Carrillo. He married Maria Regla on 1 February 1707.
I can find no baptism or marriage record for Tomas Esparza, so cannot really hazard a guess as to what branch of the Ruiz de Esparza clan he might belong.
Two of Maria Montañes Carrillos' siblings also married Ruiz de Esparzas:
Geronimo Montañes married Luisa R. de E. (1669) (she goes by "de los Angeles"). She is the daughter of Manuel R. de E. (1634) and Maria Romo de Vivar Rangel. Manuel is the son of Salvador R. de E. (1595). Geronimo Montañes and Luisa R. de E. happen to be direct ancestors of mine through another lineage.
Ana Vicente Montañes married Manuel R. de E. in 1687. Manuel (b. 1664) is the son of Martín R. de E. and Francisca Sotelo Jaen. Martín R. de E. is the son of Martín R. de. E. (b. 1600) and Maria Lopez de Lisardi.
The situation is much the same with Getrudis Macias, which turns out to be a rather common name in Aguascalientes.
Thank you all for any possible information you can give me. I'm pretty desperate to find any kind of hint!
Feliz Navidad!
-Scott

I am trying to determine whether two Juan de Miramontes who were having children in the first half of the 17th Century in Tlaltenango are the same person or not... Any help would be greatly appreciated... The mothers of the two sets of children may be different (or have to be since the second set appear to be 30 years younger than the first set) but the father could certainly be the same, which is the question here. At his death, the first Juan de Miramontes had three living sons and one living daughter. It appears Ynez died young since I have no marriage or children for her, so the daughter could have been Juana Maria... the missing son Antonio, since Alonzo Perez appears to have been illegitimate and unrecognized and therefore would not have been accounted for in the death registry.

1 Juan DE MIRAMONTES d. 1661 (son of Juan de Miramontes and Maria de Haro y Saucedo)
Brigida ORTIZ DE URRUTIA
2 Lorenzo DE MIRAMONTES b. 26 Jul 1638
Ana DIAS DE SANTIAGO b. 29 Mar 1649
3 Brigida DE MIRAMONTES
3 Juan DE MIRAMONTES
3 Angela DE MIRAMONTES
3 Beatriz MIRAMONTES b. 27 Jul 1667
3 Margarita MIRAMONTES b. 2 Sep 1670
3 Gertrudis MIRAMONTES b. 5 Jun 1692
3 Miguel MIRAMONTES b. 28 Feb 1696
3 Nicolas DE MIRAMONTES
3 Ana DIAZ DE MIRAMONTES
2 Juan MIRAMONTES ORTIZ URRUTIA b. 12 Apr 1647
2 Manuel MIRAMONTES ORTIZ URRUTIA b. 29 Dec 1649
2 Ynez MIRAMONTES URRUTIA b. 1 Apr 1651

1 Juan DE MIRAMONTES
2 Antonio DE MIRAMONTES d. 1671
Maria DE ESQUIBEL
3 Antonia ORTIZ DE MIRAMONTES O ESQUIBEL
3 Antonia MIRAMONTES ESQUIBEL b. 21 Apr 1635
3 Balthazar MIRAMONTES ESQUIBEL b. 13 Jan 1639
3 Juan MIRAMONTES ESQUIBEL b. 25 Jun 1641
3 Isabel DE MIRAMONTES ESQUIBEL b. 1643 d. Antes 1690
3 Andrea ORTIZ DE MIRAMONTES b. 15 Dec 1648
3 Maria MIRAMONTES ESQUIBEL b. 30 Sep 1652
3 Cristobal MIRAMONTES ESQUIBEL b. 25 Mar 1656
2 Juana Maria DE MIRAMONTES
Juan DE VERA
3 Nicolas DE VERA
3 Ana VERA MIRAMONTES b. 1636
3 Juana DE VERA MIRAMONTES b. 15 May 1640
2 Alonzo PEREZ
Agustina MIRAMONTES
Ysabel GONZALEZ

Sagrada Mitra de Guadalajara, Montejano Hilton, Maria de la Luz, 546, Partida 2725 (Reliability: 2).
Fresnillo, Zacatecas, 29 Sep 1690. Dispensa de segndo con tercero grado de afinidad por copula licita. Diego Ortiz, espanol de 23 anos de edad, vecino de la felihresia del Real y Minas del Fresnillo, natural de la feliresoa de Tlaltenango, hijo legitimo de Pedro Ortiz y de Ana Vasquez, con Agustina de Miramontes, mulata libre, al pareceer de 30 anos de edad, natual y vecina de dicha feligresia de Tlaltenango, hija de Pascuala de los Reyes, negra libre y de padre no conodico, viuda de Alonso Perez, mestizo. Declaracion de Luis de Luna, espanol de 76 anos de edad, casado con tia carnal del pretenso. Que conocio a Alonso Perez, ya difunto, a quien Antonio de Miramontes, vecino que fue de esta jurisdiccion, trajo del Real y minas de Mazapil, dandole nombre de hermano y que pregunatandole este testigo que que hermano se habia pepenado, respondio dicho Antonio de Miramontes que era criollo del pueblo de Tocatic hijo de Juan de Miramontes, padre tambien de dicho Antonio, que siendo mozo dicho Alonso Perez, se habia ido de esta jurisdiccion y que conociendolo en dicho Real y minas de Mazapil, lo habia traido y siempre se trataton como hermanos y dicho Juan de Miramontes padre de los susdichos fue hermano carnal de Hernando de Aro, y este tuvo por hijo a Pedro Ortiz, padre del contrayente.

Tlaltenango Marriages 1629-1704, Utah Genealogical Society (Reliability: 3).
Enterre a Juan de Miramontes espanol casado con Brigida Ortiz de ?? Administrele todos los sacramentos. No hizo testamento. Dejo cuatro hijos barones y una hija.

I heard a rumor or comment that the Hacienda of San Mateo of Valparaiso, Zacatecas, Mexico is suppose to have 101 rooms! And no one knows where the 101st room is.

Here one of many pictures that people posted of Hacienda San Mateo that was the favorite Hacienda of Conde Don Fernando Campo y Cos:

http://oi40.tinypic.com/2ia4heo.jpg

Linda:

Miguel Caldera's mother is simply called Maria in the documents where she appears. I believe this includes Miguel's will where he leaves a donation to a church for masses to be prayed for her soul. She was a Guachichil indian woman who must have died soon after bearing Miguel and Maria as they appear to have been raised by Franciscans in the newly established mission in Zacatecas. Miguel must have been one of the first mestizos born in what came to be known as Zacatecas.

Miguel had only one illegitimate daughter Isabel who had two sons. All the Calderas that were wealthy and powerful in the Jerez area appear to be descendants of Miguel's sister Maria Cid. Her son Pedro Cid Caldera was the main heir to Miguel Caldera. He was definitely considered an espanol. He was, like his uncle, a captain in the Spanish army. The caste system was not strictly based on race. I have seem many a Tlaxacaltec family 100% indigenous described as espanoles in records. They were literate Christians who were judges, officials, etc. so they were for all intent and purpose of the caste with full rights, i.e. espanoles. Such was Pedro Cid and his descendants who all married into the old Jerez families such as the Carrillo de Avila, Carlos de Godoy, Llanos y Valdes, etc.

Susana Leniski has a lot of information on the descendants of Maria Cid. Also, Phillip Wayne Powell has published a number of books on Miguel Caldera.

==============================
Linda Everett wrote:
Composed Surnames in Mexico

Arturo, has Miguel Caldera's mother ever been named? I've never seen anything except his fathers name. Is it known where Miguel Caldera was born? I have 3 Caldera grandmothers in my direct lines. Any idea why the Caldera's, including my lines all claimed Espanol when they were Mestizo's from very early on. When I was in El Durazno, district of Jerez it seemed half the town was Caldera, green eyes, blue eyes, freckled and also very dark skinned with brown eyes.
Linda in Everett

Hola a todos,
Busco información sobre Nicolas de Aceves, nacido en Agua Nueva aproximadamente en 1775, viudo de Getrudis Navarro, se caso por segunda vez con Norberta Rubalcaba el 24 de julio de 1825 en la ciudad de Tepatitlán, creo que sus padres fueron Juan de Aceves y María Luisa Verduzco o Lucía Iñiguez no estoy seguro.

Cualquier información sobre ellos se los agradecería mucho.

Atentamente Ricardo.

Alguien esta buscando un Pablo Camara mas o menos de 1800 pero el lugar no
se sabe pero puede ser Veracruz. Si tienes un Pablo Camara en su arbol
mandame un correco a joseph@nuestrosranchos.org

Someone is looking for a Pablo Camara more or less from 1800 but the place
is not known but could be Veracruz. If you have a Pablo Camara in your tree
contact me at joseph@nuestrosranchos.org

Joseph

Joseph Puentes

Clean@h2opodcast.com

http://h2opodcast.com/vsse.html

Hoy, 10 de noviembre, murió Guillermo Tovar de Teresa, miembro distinguido de Nuestros Ranchos.

http://www.jornada.unam.mx/ultimas/2013/11/10/194758376-fallece-guiller…

Hola compañeros del foro, se que muchos de ustedes descienden del matrimonio formado entre Juan de Araiza Medina y María del Castillo, vecinos de Tecolotlán, Jalisco, por lo que creo que les puede interesar lo que encontré.

Anteriormente en este mismo foro se hablaba de que Juan de Araiza Medina podría ser el hijo de Juan de Araiza Medina y María de Isla, y efectivamente así es. Encontré una dispensa en la que se menciona a Juan como hermano de Gertrudis de Araiza Medina, quien si se sabe fue hija de Juan de Araiza Medina y María de la Isla.

A continuación pego el link de la dispensa a que hago mención, espero sea de su interés. Yo no desciendo de dicha pareja pero siempre es bueno recordar las necesidades de los compañeros del foro. Suerte en sus búsquedas y un abrazo.

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18413-5066-5?cc=1874591&wc=M…

I just checked your file and find I have your Martinez and Ysais family included
if you will go to Rootsweb.com, go to family trees and put Mexico in the section that calls for name of file then go to the index and find Suriano, Manuela then go to column on top and index in text form it will give you all the records I have on your lines.
Linda Castanon-Long

I hope you all have a Safe and Healthful Thanksgiving!

Joseph

=========================

Joseph Puentes
Clean@h2opodcast.com
http://h2opodcast.com/vsse.html

-----Original Message-----
From: mimilozano@somosprimos.com [mailto:mimilozano@somosprimos.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2013 7:21 PM
To: undisclosed-recipients:
Subject: Somos Primos December 2013

http://www.somosprimos.com/sp2013/spdec13/spdec13.htm
TABLE OF CONTENTS TO DECEMBER 2013
Dear Family, Friends and Somos Primos readers:
This issue completes 14 years of publishing monthly issues of Somos Primos. With the primary mission of supporting family history research, I have attempted to include the diverse range of political sentiments among Latinos communities in the United States, to unite us in our heritage. I have tried to support those involved in education and cultural activities, and above all to encourage and demonstrate the Spanish historic presence, and contributions, in the founding and development of the United States.

Now going into Somos Primos 15th year, much of the categories of information that I have been including in Somos Primos is being offered on literally thousands of websites. However, what is still not in great abundance are our personal stories. Thankfully there are increasing numbers of oral histories projects, mostly associated with a university or public library, plus personal blogs, and social networking sites that are resulting in a new type of personal journal. What I would like Somos Primos to be, is a free service for Hispanics/Latinos to share personal and family history articles. You may feel that y our memories do not matter, that it is too complicated to set up a blog or website to share your few stories, but your memories do matter. Your memories have shaped your thoughts and affect how you interact in a continually changing world. Together we are all creating
history. Somos Primos will be a free site for you to share yours.
Scattered in the December you will read many memories of Christmas. I am very, very thankful to those that kindly responded to my request to
share a special Christmas memory. and those that continue to send
items of interest. Their contributions are gifts to all of us. Let me invite each of you to consider writing an article for the January issue of Somos Primos on memories of based on a new beginnings for you, changes, such as graduating, moving to a new location, getting married, new baby, new school, new job, new friend, having to start anew because of an accident, new church, new pet, death in the family, new recreation, new car. We all have forks in the road, some were just
happenstance, some were intentional decisions. It would be a new kind
of gift for your family. Write it as a Christmas gift for your family, and share it with Somos Primos readers. What happened, and why it mattered to you? Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year Mimi

UNITED STATES
Cuento: Los Pastores, The Shepherd's Nativity Play by Hon.Fredrick P.
Aguirre
Cuento: Is There a Santa Claus? by Eddie AAA Calderón, Ph.D.
Hispanics Breaking Barriers, 3rd Vol. 4th Issue by Mercy Bautista-Olvera
Cuento: War of the Worlds, October 30th, 1938 by Mimi Lozano
Cuento: Japanese and the California Coast During WW II by Mimi Lozano Judge Raquel Marquez-Britsch, A Wise Latina by Mercy Bautista-Olvera
Cuento: My father, Marcelino R. Bautista, my Hero by Mercy Bautista-Olvera NPS to Establish New National Historical Park to Honor César Chávez Three-Fourths of Hispanic Say Their Community Needs a Leader Latina Champions in Congress, Latina Style Magazine Highlighting Hispanic Contributions to America by Lino Garcia, Jr.
Ph.D.
The Twenty-Seventh Annual NCLR Capital Awards, March 4, 2014 July 19-22: National Council of La Raza 2014 Annual Conference, Los Angeles HISPANIC LEADERS Houston Civil Rights Icon, Leonel Castillo, Dies at 74 (1939-2013) Jesús "Tato" Laviera, legendary nuyorican poetic giant, dies at 63 Jose Montoya's Sacred Release NATIONAL ISSUES Ray Suarez's shocking departure from PBS I don't like getting pushed around for being a Jew by Ben Stein Can students be barred from wearing patriotic clothes? US Army defines Christian ministry as 'domestic hate group'
Strangers in a strange land by Devon G. Peña

ACTION ITEMS
Next Steps for the American Latino Museum Federalist Paper #46, by James Madison: How to Take Action Against Your Government

My Great Grandfather (1856 - 1923) owned this entire mountain along with the fields surrounding the base of the mountain:

http://oi40.tinypic.com/a0cps4.jpg

Here is a view from a distance:

http://oi40.tinypic.com/243rxag.jpg

He also wrote this document in 1893 about the production of honey by bees:

http://oi39.tinypic.com/2928905.jpg

Adjunto (attached) un articulo de los Papaquis en Nochistlan (an article about the Papaquis in Nochistlan). El 18 de enero la familia Legaspi Frias patrocina el dia a San Sebastian (on the 18 of Jan Legaspi Frias Family organizes the feast day for San Sebastian). La 9va reunion familiar de los Legaspi se llevara acabo (the 9th Legaspi Family Reunion will take place on that day). Hagan nota, habra mas de 300 individuos de todo el mundo (there will be over 300 individuals there.) Todos estan invitados. ( all are invited).

http://www.esmas.com/noticierostelevisa/mexico/420243.html

Hola compañeros, ayer encontré una conexión más en mi árbol genealógico. Encontré que desciendo nuevamente del matrimonio formado por Juan de la Cruz y María Gabay. Encontré que ellos tuvieron un hijo llamado Martín de la Cruz, y este tuvo a Antonio de la Cruz; ¿alguno de ustedes tiene información al respecto sobre ellos y sus cónyuges?

Creo que Martín de la Cruz pudo ser el casado con Jacinta de Olivas en Nochistlán, pero no tengo un dato seguro aquí.

Atentamente.
Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.
Tepatitlán de Morelos, Jalisco.

Hi
I saw this drawing of an animal head (bird?) next to a baptism entry. If someone has time, could you take a look and post what you think it is? Has anyone else seen anything like this? Anyone know what it could mean? My curiosity was piqued...

Michoacan, Sagrario, 7 Dec 1603, image 84,
Andres son of Pedro Garcia Maldonado and Maria (?)

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18744-23591-19?cc=1883388&wc…

Regards
Denise

Hi Early Aguascalientes Researchers:

I'm trying to unravel a mystery. I'm looking for the ancestors of Antonio Garcia who married Francisca Xavier de Cordoba on Aug. 30, 1730 in Cienega de Mata, Ojuelos. His parents: Christoval Garcia and Getrudis Delgado.

As you know Delgado and Garcia are early Spanish families in Aguascalientes, but I'm not certain of my connections. Bernardo Antonio Garcia was baptized June 29, 1707 in El Sagrario, Aguas (Film 299424), son of Christoval and Getrudis. I have baptism of some of his siblings too. He was Español.

Question is: Does anyone have the marriage of his parents?? The marriage film for this period is extremely bad and dark and barely readable. I'm looking for the marriage of Christobal Garcia and Gertrudis Delgado, circa 1704 to 1707. I am trying to determine their baptisms and parentage.

I believe Christoval was baptized Aug. 5, 1861 in Sagrario (Film 299422), son of Juan Garcia and Juana de Ulloa- He is Español. I found this baptism today. BUT, a Christoval Garcia was also allegedly baptized Jan. 9, 1688 in Aguas. He has different parents.

Getrudis Delgado Lopez was baptized Oct. 22, 1868 in Sagrario (Film 299422), daughter of Juan Delgado and Margarita Lopez. She is Española. But another Gertruds was born in 1679, daughter of Diego Delgado and Nicolasa Lopes.

Juan Delgado was baptized Aug. 1, 1647 (Sagrario, Film 299421) as son of Joseph Delgado and Francesca Garrai (aka Gabai y Tiscareno). And this couple, Jose Delgado and Francesca Tiscareno were married Aug. 30, 1644, and the rest his history, the famous Ruiz de Esparza line, the alleged Moctezuma/Cortez connection, and the pioneer Delgado line.

Does anyone have any links that I don't have. Does anyone know about the marriage of Christoval and Gertrudis? Thanks.

John Schmal aka "Lost in Early Aguascalientes"

________________________________________________________________________
Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more.

This past weekend there was they had the 9th Annual International
Conference on Genetic Genealogy and some of what has been said on forums
for a while is now an official stance on the origins of the R1b haplogroup
and it's spread into Western Europe including Spain.

He talked about P311 which is the parent of P312 and U106 and U152 which
are all found in our region of research. Many of your ancestors belongs to
these groups.

"Hammer says that in his opinion, he thought that if P311 is so frequent
and widespread in Europe it must have been there a long time.
*However, it appears that he and most everyone else, was wrong. *
The hypothesis to be tested is if P311 originated prior to the Neolithic
wave, it would predict higher diversity it the near east, closer to the
origins of agriculture. If P311 originated after the expansion, would be
able to see it migrate across Europe and it would have had to replace an
existing population.

Because we now have sequences the DNA of about 40 ancient DNA specimens,
Michael turned to the ancient DNA literature....This evidence supports a
recent spread of haplogroup R lineages in western Europe about 5K years
ago. This also supports evidence that P311 moved into Europe after the
Neolithic agricultural transition and nearly displaced the previously
existing western European Neolithic Y, which appears to be G2a."

http://dna-explained.com/2013/11/12/2013-family-tree-dna-conference-day…

He also talked about the movement of R1b from eastern Europe to western
Europe, which goes against the old Franco-Cantrabrian refugium.

"We are now talking about population movements without about the past 4,000
years. R1b appears in the Caucasus by the early Neolithic. By the end of
the Neolithic, it is still isolated to pockets in Eastern Europe. Then in
the Early-Mid Bronze age about 4500-4000 years ago, R1b was found in
central Europe. By about 4000-3500 years ago, R1b begins to reach western
Europe. In the Iron Age 3200-3000 years ago there was a period of
differentiation in centers of renewed expansion. It is possible that this
continued through the Iron Age and can be seen as recently as 2,000 years
ago. There is a lot left to be learned and the ancient DNA contribution
will be very large to determine the R1b overtaking of the Neolithic
chromosomes."

http://www.ancestorcentral.com/archives/821

Here is a picture of the movement of P312 going west from east and the
subclade Z195, a child of P312 and DF27, showing up in France. From there
subclades of Z195 made their way into Spain.

http://www.ancestorcentral.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/8037.jpg

There is much more information in the blogs such as the only ancient
remains found in western Europe from 5,000 to 7,000 years ago belong to
haplogroups G2a, G2a3, I2a, F, and E1bibi. So those were there before R1b.

Saludos,
Armando