TEST SITE - DO NOT USE - Development only

Yolanda:

I don't really know why, but PAF is available in Spanish in only Version 4.0.4, whereas the latest version is 5.2.18.  I have not used the 4.0.4 so I am not sure what charting and reporting capabilities there are, but I know that there are a few members that use both the English and Spanish language version much in the way that you are envisioning.

As far as conversion, I don't think you really need to worry about it.  You can just open up the PAF file that you have created in the English Version of the software in the Spanish Version.

-Arturo
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Message from Yolanda Medina-Perez windrocklili@...

First of all THANKS to all who responded to my question about using
DE in a surname... I'm sure other members new to genealogy as well as
those more seasoned in this "obsession" continue to learn from other
members. KUDOS.. TO THOSE WHO TAKE THE TIME AND MAKE AN EFFORT TO
SHARE THEIR KNOWLEDGE AND EXPERIENCES.
I recently attended a genealogy meeting where they mentioned that
there was a PAF program in Spanish and I was wondering if I could
convert my Paf/english to PAF/spanish. If this were possible it would
make it possible to give family reports to our family members that do
not read English. Is this possible or am I dreaming???
Yolanda Medina Perez in El Paso, Tx.

First of all THANKS  to all who responded to my question about using 
DE in a surname...  I'm sure other members new to genealogy as well as 
those more seasoned in this "obsession" continue to learn from other 
members. KUDOS.. TO THOSE WHO TAKE THE TIME AND MAKE AN EFFORT TO 
SHARE THEIR KNOWLEDGE AND EXPERIENCES.   
 I recently attended a genealogy meeting where they mentioned that 
there was a PAF program in Spanish and I was wondering if I could 
convert my Paf/english to PAF/spanish. If this were possible it would 
make it possible to give family reports to our family members that do 
not read English. Is this possible or am I dreaming???
Yolanda Medina Perez in El Paso, Tx.  

Yes, and there are BORONDAs in New Mexico.  I have not
found any link to mine yet, but one day I may.
Kim


On Mon, February 20, 2006 12:19 pm, Alberto Duarte said:
>     Not only did they go to alto California, but they also
>  went to new Mexico.
>
>  Alberto Duarte

Thank you so much for this information.  I am not quite
clear on one thing -- the Catholic churches *should* have
birth records from the 1700's?  In most countries with
which I have experience, even after civil registry, the
church kept records.  Is this true in Mexico?
Kim


On Fri, February 17, 2006 2:47 pm, arturoramos2 said:
>  The Catholic Church records were the vital records in New
> Spain, New Galicia and then Mexico until the late 1800s
> when a secular civil registry was established and even
> then, it took some communities a while before they
> started complying with the government's decrees that all
> births and marriages had to be registered through civil
> authorities.

Message from Joseph Puentes makas@...

Okay the new
"Nuestros Ranchos"
website is ready for Beta Testing and we're looking for a few volunteers

Our resident
webmaster guru
extraordinaire, Arturo Ramos has put forth a tremendous amount of work
in
getting the website designed and built. He truly is a one man show and
I'm sure
you will like and appreciate his hard work that will benefit the long
term
existence of the Ranchos group. Without this effort I truly believe the
Ranchos
group would have dissolved in a few years, but now I see the
possibility that
the children of some of the members might be able to take the reigns
one day.

here is the
website's URL:

http://nuestrosranchos.org

Have a look
around and if you would like
to volunteer to test the site, please follow the instructions that are
posted
on the website.  [NOTE: this group is meant to eventually be a
replacement
for the Yahoo Groups Ranchos/Ranchos2. having said that I understand
that any
time you introduce something new there needs to be a certain amount of
transition time involved. So for you Beta Testers may unfortunately
receive two
copies of some messages posted.  That is part of the drawback of having
the two sites up and running simultaneously and making sure that
everyone
receives all of the messages, regardless where they are posted.
Eventually
we'll move everyone over to the new group and the double posting will
stop. ]

If anything
at all is unclear or if you
have questions about this or the group or anything ask away. If I can't
answer
I'm sure Arturo can and if he can't we'll strive to get the information.

Here's to
our future together,

Joseph
Puentes
Owner/Moderator

Rosalinda Ruiz Moderator

Arturo Ramos Moderator/Webmaster

If you would
like to be a beta tester,
please follow the following instructions to access your account (which
has
already been set up):

For anybody who would like to donate, please send the money to my 
attention.  If you would like to send a personal check, please send it 
my name, and I will have my father deliver it in cash or a single 
combined money order.  There are no banks in Totatiche and therefore 
dealing in personal checks can be troublesome.  I will of course obtain 
a receipt for your donation.

If you do not feel comfortable doing this, please obtain a postal money 
order in the name of Esteban Valdes Salazar, as some of the shops in 
town exchange money orders.

My mailing address is:

Arturo Ramos
1225 13th Street NW Apt 412
Washington DC 20005

I'll be glad to send a donation as well. Marge Vallazza:)

On Feb 20, 2006, at 3:19 PM, arturoramos2 wrote:

arturoramos2,

Thursday, February 16, 2006, 8:53:26 PM, you wrote:

> Yolanda:

> I guess the answer to your question depends on the software that
> you are using.  I use an online database called The Next Generation
> that allows you to enter the "DE" or "DE LOS" or "DE LA" in a
> seperate field from the main surname such that when you search or
> sort by surname these are not taken into account.

> When I import the GEDCOM from this software into PAF, I get the
> same problem that you do... a bunch of people end up under the
> letter "D" and I forget to look for them there.

> I definitely like entering the name as it appears... for example a

Yolanda:
  I use The Master Genealogist, which when customized also allows
  entering the "pre-surname" in a separate field that isn't considered
  when the names are sorted. Thus, de la Cruz and Cruz sort together.
  I would normally say that you should enter the names as you find
  them, but the trouble is, the same name is often (usually) found in
  many variations throughout a person's life, depending on who is
  doing the recording. So it makes sense to me to use a standardized
  spelling and in your SOURCE information make it clear how the name
  actually appeared.

  Not only are there problems with pre-surnames like DE or DE LA etc.,
  but also with spelling variations -- Jiménez and Ximénez, Váladez
  and Báldez, Zamarripa and Samarripa to name a few. The are so many
  variations of some names that do NOT normally sort together, that
  using a standardized form makes sense. I don't know if your software
  allows you to enter more than one name set for a person, but if it
  does, entering a standardized spelling in addition to the most usual
  characteristic form for that person can be beneficial.

  One of the most interesting names in my research is de Lara, often
  written just Lara, and originally de la Ara.
  
  Then there is the question of what to do with the mother's maiden
  name in those families where it is traditional to include that after
  the father's surname. Some software provides fields which can be
  customized for that purpose. Or what about the use of "de" names in
  those instances where it implies a woman's husband's name. I gotta
  say, the many forms that Mexican names take is part of the challenge
  that makes Mexican genealogy interesting!
  


Best regards,

Last month I mentioned that I met with Esteban Valdes Salazar, "cronista" from Totatiche, Jalisco and genealogist who has published a number of very valuable books.  He is in the midst of trying to publish a second edition of the now sold out Historia de Totatiche as well as a new book on the genealogy of the Pinedos and Ortegas of Totatiche.

He has transcribed a whole series of early land titles and is the only historian who has seen the old Fransican convent records from Colotlan from the 1600s.  He is helping Samuel Sanchez get those
filmed as we speak.

He is very strapped for money and is trying to raise money to publish these works and I promised him I would try to get some donations.  I have already received some from a couple of generous Ranchos members.  My parents are headed back down to Mexico in a couple of weeks and I would like to send the donation down with them.  Please let me know if you would be willing to contribute, however small an amount.  I will make the donation on behalf of the group and will list the names of the contributors in my letter to him.

-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
Nuestros Ranchos General Mailing List

To post, send email to:
general@...

To change your subscription, log on to:
http://www.nuestrosranchos.com

Last month I mentioned that I met with Esteban Valdes Salazar, "cronista" from Totatiche, Jalisco and genealogist who has published a number of very valuable books.  He is in the midst of trying to publish a second edition of the now sold out Historia de Totatiche as well as a new book on the genealogy of the Pinedos and Ortegas of Totatiche.

He has transcribed a whole series of early land titles and is the only historian who has seen the old Fransican convent records from Colotlan from the 1600s.  He is helping Samuel Sanchez get those filmed as we speak.

He is very strapped for money and is trying to raise money to publish these works and I promised him I would try to get some donations.  I have already received some from a couple of generous Ranchos members.  My parents are headed back down to Mexico in a couple of weeks and I would like to send the donation down with them.  Please let me know if you would be willing to contribute, however small an amount.  I will make the donation on behalf of the group and will list the names of the contributors in my letter to him.

-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- 
Nuestros Ranchos General Mailing List

To post, send email to:
general@...

To change your subscription, log on to:
http://www.nuestrosranchos.com

Good information.  

I have one also, what about the last name Garcia de la
Cadena-some of my relatives went with Garcia and
others went with Cadena (which I'm having a problem
finding).  Can anyone from Zacatecas Jerez help me
with this one?

Alberto Duarte

--- Erlinda Castanon-Long <longsjourney@...>
wrote:

> Welcome to the wonderful world of genealogy! What
> I'm sharing may 
> sound very trying but I must tell you the longer you
> do genealogy 
> the more satisfaction you get when you work long and
> hard and your 
> family is reclaimed after going through many
> records. I found a 
> record I'd had for 3 years the key to taking my
> Gutierrez family 
> from 1750 in Jalisco to 1650 in Michoacan! At other
> times I can 
> thank another person who's shared their information
> and records that 
> opened a door for me. My husband had done the
> records for his family 
> back to 1854 and found someone else online through
> Familysearch.com 
> who'd done that line back to mid 1500's and was more
> than willing to 
> share including documentation.
> 
> When I started reading records I would discard all
> names that were 
> spelled differently... WRONG!!! I now know the
> families seldom even 
> saw the records and the people giving the
> information were not 
> always the people the records were about.  There
> were many times 
> where the scribe put the grandparents as parents and
> the birth dates 
> were very wrong. I have a marriage record for an
> ancestor that says 
> he was 50 but he was really 72 when he married a
> second time! 
> 
> You may find the people using different names during
> their lifetime, 
> I have an ancestor who appears as Antonio Carmen,
> Jose Carmel, 
> Antonio del Carmen but they are all the same person.
> I've found 
> times when the men all used the fathers surname and
> the women used 
> their mothers and grandmothers surnames, they have
> been very 
> challenging to put together as siblings.
> 
> I've found the spelling of their surnames change
> from record to 
> record with the scribe and local customs being in
> control. De la 
> Cueva becomes Cuevas, De Los Rios became Del Rio and
> then Rios...  
> De Avila became Davila and Avila. De la Torre
> sometimes stayed that 
> way or changed to Torres. And then their are the

Not only did they go to alto California, but they also
went to new Mexico.  

Alberto Duarte

--- arturoramos2 <arturo.ramos2@...> wrote:

> 
> In response to your question:
> 
> It is my understanding that vital records in
> Zacatecas
> were burned in the revolution, but what about the
> Catholic
> church records -- does anyone know if they were
> kept?
> 
> The Catholic Church records were the vital records
> in New Spain, New Galicia and then Mexico until the
> late 1800s when a secular civil registry was
> established and even then, it took some communities
> a while before they started complying with the
> government's decrees that all births and marriages
> had to be registered through civil authorities.
> 
> There appears to be a couple of Borondas around
> Jalisco and Zacatecas that are possible candidates
> for being relatives of your ancestor.  It is my
> understading that many of the Alta California
> pioneers in that time period were from the frontier
> provinces (Durango, Zacatecas, Chihuahua, etc.)
> 
> FRANCISCO XAVIER BORONDA  
>   Male   Family 
> Parents: 
>   Father:  JOSEPH BORONDA  Family 
>   Mother:  MARIA AVENDANO     
> Marriages: 
>   Spouse:  SEBASTIANA ANTONIA  Family 
>   Marriage:  14 APR 1736   San Miguel, Cocula,
> Jalisco, Mexico 
>  
> FRANCO. MARIA BORONDA FLORIDO  
>   Male     
>  Christening:  13 MAR 1746   San Francisco, Villa De
> Reyes, San Luis Potosi, Mexico 
> Parents: 
>   Father:  JOSEPH BORONDA  Family 
>   Mother:  JUANA MARCELINA FLORIDO  
> -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- 
> Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> 
> To post, send email to:
> research@...
> 
> To change your subscription, log on to:
> http://www.nuestrosranchos.com
> 


__________________________________________________
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In response to your question:

It is my understanding that vital records in Zacatecas
were burned in the revolution, but what about the Catholic
church records -- does anyone know if they were kept?

The Catholic Church records were the vital records in New Spain, New Galicia and then Mexico until the late 1800s when a secular civil registry was established and even then, it took some communities a while before they started complying with the government's decrees that all births and marriages had to be registered through civil authorities.

There appears to be a couple of Borondas around Jalisco and Zacatecas that are possible candidates for being relatives of your ancestor.  It is my understading that many of the Alta California pioneers in that time period were from the frontier provinces (Durango, Zacatecas, Chihuahua, etc.)

FRANCISCO XAVIER BORONDA  
  Male   Family 
Parents: 
  Father:  JOSEPH BORONDA  Family 
  Mother:  MARIA AVENDANO     
Marriages: 
  Spouse:  SEBASTIANA ANTONIA  Family 
  Marriage:  14 APR 1736   San Miguel, Cocula, Jalisco, Mexico 
 
FRANCO. MARIA BORONDA FLORIDO  
  Male     
 Christening:  13 MAR 1746   San Francisco, Villa De Reyes, San Luis Potosi, Mexico 
Parents: 
  Father:  JOSEPH BORONDA  Family 
  Mother:  JUANA MARCELINA FLORIDO  
-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- 
Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List

To post, send email to:
research@...

To change your subscription, log on to:
http://www.nuestrosranchos.com

Welcome to the wonderful world of genealogy! What I'm sharing may 
sound very trying but I must tell you the longer you do genealogy 
the more satisfaction you get when you work long and hard and your 
family is reclaimed after going through many records. I found a 
record I'd had for 3 years the key to taking my Gutierrez family 
from 1750 in Jalisco to 1650 in Michoacan! At other times I can 
thank another person who's shared their information and records that 
opened a door for me. My husband had done the records for his family 
back to 1854 and found someone else online through Familysearch.com 
who'd done that line back to mid 1500's and was more than willing to 
share including documentation.

When I started reading records I would discard all names that were 
spelled differently... WRONG!!! I now know the families seldom even 
saw the records and the people giving the information were not 
always the people the records were about.  There were many times 
where the scribe put the grandparents as parents and the birth dates 
were very wrong. I have a marriage record for an ancestor that says 
he was 50 but he was really 72 when he married a second time! 

You may find the people using different names during their lifetime, 
I have an ancestor who appears as Antonio Carmen, Jose Carmel, 
Antonio del Carmen but they are all the same person. I've found 
times when the men all used the fathers surname and the women used 
their mothers and grandmothers surnames, they have been very 
challenging to put together as siblings.

I've found the spelling of their surnames change from record to 
record with the scribe and local customs being in control. De la 
Cueva becomes Cuevas, De Los Rios became Del Rio and then Rios...  
De Avila became Davila and Avila. De la Torre sometimes stayed that 
way or changed to Torres. And then their are the families who got to 
chose which one of the hyphenated surname to use.. Villasenor y Jaso 
became Villa or Villasenor with other siblings using just Jaso!

It sounds confusing but once you get familiar with the names and 
style of the records for that area it all comes together.. The parts 
of the puzzle finally fall into place and you understand why we do 
this... to honor our families and to reclaim a history many of us 
never knew existed.
Best wishes in your search
Linda in Everett

Hello,
I am new to the ranchos group.  My potential link to the
target areas is my ancestor Jose(f) Manuel BORONDA.  It
has been said that he was born in Jerez, in Guadalajara,
and in Spain.  So far there is no proof of any of this. 
He would have been born about 1750.  It is documented that
he came to California in 1769.  He married Maria Gertrudis
HIGUERA at Mission San Carlos in Monterey, California on
23 January 1790. He was 40 at that time.
I have learned that BORONDA is likely a Basque name and
that it has *numerous* spellings! There are very few,
under any spelling, that I can find in Aer or Argena III.
Those that I find on LDS are in Basque Country.
It is my understanding that vital records in Zacatecas
were burned in the revolution, but what about the Catholic
church records -- does anyone know if they were kept?
Muchas gracias.
Kim Raine
Vermont

Yolanda:

I guess the
answer to your question depends on the software that you are using.  I use an online database called The Next Generation that allows you to enter the "DE" or "DE LOS" or "DE LA" in a seperate field from the main surname such that when you search or sort by surname these are not taken into account.

When I import the GEDCOM from this software into PAF, I get the same problem that you do... a bunch of people end up under the letter "D" and I forget to look for them there.

I definitely like entering the name as it appears... for example a lot of contemporary names were once "DE" names such as Rios was "DE LOS RIOS" or "DEL RIO" and Torres was "DE LA TORRE", etc. so I would not enter such names simply as "TORRE".

What software are you using?  Other than ROBALCALVA, do you have any "DE" names such as those I mention above?
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Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List

To post, send email
to:
research@...

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http://www.nuestrosranchos.com

Yolanda:

I guess the answer to your question depends on the software that you are using.  I use an online database called The Next Generation that allows you to enter the "DE" or "DE LOS" or "DE LA" in a seperate field from the main surname such that when you search or sort by surname these are not taken into account.

When I import the GEDCOM from this software into PAF, I get the same problem that you do... a bunch of people end up under the letter "D" and I forget to look for them there.

I definitely like entering the name as it appears... for example a lot of contemporary names were once "DE" names such as Rios was "DE LOS RIOS" or "DEL RIO" and Torres was "DE LA TORRE", etc. so I would not enter such names simply as "TORRE".

What software are you using?  Other than ROBALCALVA, do you have any "DE" names such as those I mention above?
-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- 
Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List

To post, send email to:
research@...

To change your subscription, log on to:
http://www.nuestrosranchos.com