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Hello Alice,

Would love to meet you some day my only problem is I don't drive very 
far from Hollister any more.  Use  to in my younger years, San Jose  
is just has to much traffic for me.

Regards
Sally

Hello Marge,

We are primas my descened comes from Juana Maria Chavez married to 
Luis Silva in 1738 she was the daugther of Francisco Chavez-Clara de 
Los Reyes.
I don't have a copy for Pedro Chavez Banuelos and Agueda Olague 
marriage but I can tell you where I found that information.
Go to Heraldica y Genealogia Cabral Valdes he has a big web site  on 
many names from Jerez and Monte Escovedo beware that there are some 
errors. When you get to the site enter
1 click on appellidos
2 click on the letter B
3 click on Banuelos
4 click on Indice de Nombres
5 scroll down to Pedro Chavez y Banuelos
6 click on Notas

You will find the information for Pedro and Agueda's marriage.
It states that there was a despenesa for this marriage in the 3rd 
with 4th grado. I have the Sagrada Mitra book and it is not in there.
I did write  to Mr. Cabral several months ago to see how I could 
obtain a copy but he never got back to me.

Regards  
Sally

Hello Arturo,

I looked up your file and perhaps some day we will make a connection.
My first Nava (gtgrandmother) was born in Juanchorrey Zac. Her father
and grandfather were all married in Juanchorrey Zac. The next 3
generations which takes me to about 1710 were from Monte Escovedo.
As for my Gonzales, Carlos and De La Torre they were from
Tepetongo,Jerez and Juanchorrey.

Regards
Sally

Hello Arturo,

I looked up your file and perhaps some day we will make a connection.
My first Nava (gtgrandmother) was born in Juanchorrey Zac. Her father 
and grandfather were all married in Juanchorrey Zac. The next 3 
generations which takes me to about 1710 were from Monte Escovedo.
As for my Gonzales, Carlos and De La Torre they were from 
Tepetongo,Jerez and Juanchorrey.

Regards
Sally

Wow!!!! Based on what Sally told me in another message, I'd say I'm a Banuelos descendant as well!!!!! Yaaaaahooooo!!!! Marge:)

On Oct 25, 2005, at 4:49 PM, Joseph Puentes wrote:

matthew_chavez1 wrote:

Dear Joseph and members,



My name is Sally Zuñiga-Quiñones I live in Hollister Ca. My reseach

on my paternal grandmother has been from Teocaliche Jal. Some of her

lines have taken me to other cities as San Miguel El Alto

Jalostotitlan,Lagos de Moreno,San Juan de Los Lagos,Cienaga Mata,

Jalisco also Pinos Zacatecas, Asientos and Aguascalientes, Aguas.

Some of my surnames are Colmenero,Marin,Diaz,Tejeda,(Z)Sermeño,Ortiz,

Villalobos,Ornelas and others.

On my paternal grandfather my research has been from Tepetongo Zac.

also from Jerez and Monte Escovedo. He was born in Juanchorrey Zac.

some of my surnames are Zuñiga,Nava,Gonzales,Silva,Berumen,Luna,

Carlos,De La Torre,Olague,Chavez,Bañuelos

welcome to the group,



joseph

Sally, you're NOT going to believe this but I am looking right at a copy of a 1695 christening record of one of their kids (Teresa de Chaves). Agueda Olague was the daughter of Juana de la Torre and Miguel Olague, which I found at the familysearch.org--however, I'm not descended from Teresa, I'm directly descended from Agueda's and Pedro's son Francisco, who married Clara de los Reyes. (don't know when, had to be before 1726). Their daughter, Phelipa Gertrudis de Chaves(z) married her second cousin Cristobal Villavicencio (b. about 1732 in Jerez) at Los Chaves. Their apparent only child, Juliana del Carmen Villavicencio (isn't that a beautiful name?) was born in 1758 in Las Tetillas, Jerez.



Where did you get Agueda and Pedro's marriage info? I would love to get a copy. Marge:)





On Oct 25, 2005, at 5:55 PM, matthew_chavez1 wrote:

Dear Joseph and members,

My name is Sally Zuñiga-Quiñones I live in Hollister Ca. My reseach
on my paternal grandmother has been from Teocaliche Jal. Some of her
lines have taken me to  other cities as San Miguel El Alto
Jalostotitlan,Lagos de Moreno,San Juan de Los Lagos,Cienaga Mata,
Jalisco also Pinos Zacatecas, Asientos and Aguascalientes, Aguas.
Some of my surnames are Colmenero,Marin,Diaz,Tejeda,(Z)Sermeño,Ortiz,
Villalobos,Ornelas and others.
On my paternal grandfather my research has been from Tepetongo Zac.
also from Jerez and Monte Escovedo. He was born in Juanchorrey Zac.
some of my surnames are Zuñiga,Nava,Gonzales,Silva,Berumen,Luna,
Carlos,De La Torre,Olague,Chavez,Bañuelos,Aro and others.
I appreciate the opportunity to join this group and share with you
my information. I will enter my information as soon as I
can figure
how this is done.

Thank You
Sally

Dear Marge,
When I first came upon ranchos yahoo groups I
 read every message over a period of time. I remember your name and 
thought we could possibly make a connection. I never connected the 
Colmenero's from Jerez to my grandmothers Colmenero's In Teocaltiche.
I havn't seen to many files from the members yet. I do have a Pedro 
Chavez Banuelos married to Agueda Olague Del Rio Etulain on 8 Dec 1681 
and thier parents. My Zuniga married an Aro in 1793. 

Sally

Dear Sally,

Welcome! An ancestor of mine had a sister who married a Colmenero. I have Gonzalez, Ortiz, de la Torre, Chavez, and Olague in my family tree. I am descended from a Zuniga and an Haro, too. My Saldivars married into the Colmeneros and the Colmeneros married into the Berumen and Carlos families. They, in turn, married into the Banuelos. These are all Jerezanos. Marge V.:)





On Oct 25, 2005, at 2:32 PM, matthew_chavez1 wrote:

Dear Joseph and members,



My name is Sally Zuñiga-Quiñones I live in Hollister Ca. My reseach

on my paternal grandmother has been from Teocaliche Jal. Some of her

lines have taken me to  other cities as San Miguel El Alto

Jalostotitlan,Lagos de Moreno,San Juan de Los Lagos,Cienaga Mata,

Jalisco also Pinos Zacatecas, Asientos and Aguascalientes, Aguas.

Some of my surnames are Colmenero,Marin,Diaz,Tejeda,(Z)Sermeño,Ortiz,

Villalobos,Ornelas and others.

On my paternal grandfather my research has been from Tepetongo Zac.

also from Jerez and Monte Escovedo. He was born in Juanchorrey Zac.

some of my surnames are Zuñiga,Nava,Gonzales,Silva,Berumen,Luna,

Carlos,De La Torre,Olague,Chavez,Bañuelos,Aro and others.

I appreciate the opportunity to join this group and share with you

my information. I will enter my information as soon as I can figure

how this is done.



Thank You

Sally













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Dear Joseph and members, 

My name is Sally Zuñiga-Quiñones I live in Hollister Ca. My reseach 
on my paternal grandmother has been from Teocaliche Jal. Some of her 
lines have taken me to  other cities as San Miguel El Alto 
Jalostotitlan,Lagos de Moreno,San Juan de Los Lagos,Cienaga Mata,
Jalisco also Pinos Zacatecas, Asientos and Aguascalientes, Aguas.
Some of my surnames are Colmenero,Marin,Diaz,Tejeda,(Z)Sermeño,Ortiz,
Villalobos,Ornelas and others.
On my paternal grandfather my research has been from Tepetongo Zac. 
also from Jerez and Monte Escovedo. He was born in Juanchorrey Zac. 
some of my surnames are Zuñiga,Nava,Gonzales,Silva,Berumen,Luna,
Carlos,De La Torre,Olague,Chavez,Bañuelos,Aro and others.
I appreciate the opportunity to join this group and share with you 
my information. I will enter my information as soon as I can figure 
how this is done. 

Thank You 
Sally

My grandmother went thru tough times in Totatiche, Jalisco, including
the Mexican revolution during the early 1900s and then the Cristero
Wars some years later. She used to tell us stories of many of the
hardships she and my grandfather had to endure. As my grandfather was
a professor at the catholic seminary he was considered an enemy of the
state during the Cristero Wars. Several attempts were made to kill
him. We were told that during those times they always had a guard
posted at the top of the church, day and night, whose job was to alert
the town whenever any soldiers were approaching. When that happened
they had to flee and hide in the hills for weeks at a time until the
troops left the town. My grandmother recalled how she had to give
birth in the wilderness while they were hiding and how she lost one of
her children consequently. Another one was lost by drowning in the
river. And some other of her children died by disease and lack of
medicines. Out of 18 births only 12 survived to adult age, but she
always counted by name her 18 children. She lived to the ripe age of
102.  May God bless her!
Victor
--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "Irma GomezLucero" <igomezlucero@c...>
wrote:
>
> That may be true in some environments, but maybe not in ours.  Growing
> up, I recall many relatives lamenting death of children. I still recall
> my grandfather lamenting the loss of three children who died in infancy.
> I recall him mentioning this on many occasions.  He's the person who
> influenced me most in genealogy.  He always listed these three children.
> My father being the second to the last of ten, always spoke of those
> siblings who died way before he was ever born.  He knew their
> birthdates, cause of death, and death date.  I remember him describing
> their deaths quite vividly.  My guess is that these events were talked
> about frequently.  Otherwise how could a child recall so much.  Does
> anyone else recall such experiences?  Just wonderinfg if my family is a
> fluke or something?  :)
> I do remember an Anglo-American friend  recounting her experience of
> suffering a miscarriage during her stint as a Baptist Missionary in the
> jungles of Ecuador. She was shocked when her miscarried child was
> brought to her in a shoebox.  She was also told the same thing as your
> nurse friend.  The expression that was used was, "Life is cheap."  
> Irma
> 
> ________________________________

I just looked at my first informacion matrimonial film recently and 
there is a wealth of information in those... a bit of a waste of 
paper and ink, since a lot of it is the declarations of the husband 
and wife to be, which are obviously dictated by the priest and then 
the witnesses who attest to the verbatim same thing about the non-
consanguinity, single state of the couple, etc.  However, if the 
marriage record does not list parents, the informacion most 
definitely will... because of the consnguinity issue.

My problem with Marcos LEMUS and Maria Barbara YBARRA is that I 
cannot find their marriage record at all.  I don't even know what 
parrish they were married in.  Almost definitely not in Colotlan, 
where I would expect, because I have gone through the entire IGI 
extract for the relevant film and there is nothing that remotely 
approaches their names... a few Marcos with no last name but not 
married to any Marias or Barbaras.

There also appears to be no baptismal record for Marcos in Colotlan. 
I suspect Marcos may have been born and married married somewhere far 
from Totatiche.

There are not really any YBARRAs in Totatiche and the LEMUS family 
seems to disappear from Totatiche sometime in the mid-18th Century, 
which makes me think that they migrated back out of the region, and 
perhaps Marcos went back with his wife since the family had land 
there... the question is FROM WHERE?

I know that his probable grandfather who was granted the land where 
Marcos raised his children, including my gggggranfdfather (Felipe 
LEMUS) was from Puebla and that there are tons of LEMUS in Guanajuato 
around the relevant time...  Any ideas/leads?

--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "readysetgo95814" <mcortez3@g...> 
wrote:
>
> Hi Arturo and all,
> 
> I've been following this thread because I hit a brick wall on one 
of 
> my lines and had the same thought as Arturo--to look at the death 
> records.  However, a recent post by Jonathan got me thinking of 
> ordering the Informacion Matrimonial film.  I had not planned on 
> ordering that film because I have a copy of the marriage record for 
> the couple in question.  I've changed my mind since and I think 
I'll 
> take my chances with the Informacion Matrimonal for the couple.  I 
> may find more info there than in the death records.  I thought I 
> would mention that to you Arturo, in case that film is available 
for 
> the parrish you are interested in.