TEST SITE - DO NOT USE - Development only

Hope:

The marriage records usually have the names of parents listed and 
your grandmother's marriage with Epifanio is listed in IGI and you 
can order the film from your local family history center to view the 
full record and see the parent listing.  One of our members, Deena 
Ortiz has this film at her local FHC.

ANCELMA RODRIGUEZ  
  Female   Family 
Marriages: 
  Spouse:  EPIFANIO RAMIREZ  Family 
  Marriage:  04 MAR 1878   Nochistlan, Zacatecas, Mexico 
Source Information: 
 Batch No.:  Dates:       Source Call No.:  Type:  
 M606265     1874 - 1880  0226734           Film 


You should also know that there is a very good and detailed genealogy 
of the oldest settlers in Nochistlan, so if your gggrandmother's 
family is originally from there, you should have a great resource to 
go back pretty far.

Genealogía de Nochistlán, antiguo reino de la Nueva Galicia en el 
siglo XVII según sus archivos parroquiales 
Authors Vázquez y Rodríguez de Frías, José Luis (Main Author) 

Notes Genealogía de familias e historia del antiguo Nochistlán desde 
el tiempo del virreinato de la Nueva Galicia, aproximadamente desde 
el año 1600.

Genealogy and genealogical tables of families that lived in the city 
of Nochistlán, Zacatecas, México. Includes some of its history since 
about early 1600's. Some information contained in this book expands 
to other areas of Mexico as well. Text in Spanish. Includes index by 
surname and several appendixes. Appendix 1 includes a list of the 
parish records searched on microfilms. Appendix 2-3 include a list of 
the families found in the census of 1649 and 1664.

Incluye muchos apellidos de los cuales algunos son Delgadillo, Frías, 
González, Pérez, Rodríguez, Vázquez, Yáñez y más.

Incluye índice y varios apéndices. También contiene en algunas partes 
información de otras áreas de México. 



--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "Hope" <beelieve@b...> wrote:
>
> Hello or Holla to everyone,
> My name is Hope Carmona Wilson and I am looking for information on 
my 
> gg parents from Mexico. Like so many of us who are American by 
birth 
> and who are searching for history of our past family memebers from 
> Mexico,it seems to be like looking for a needle in a hay stack.I am 
> very happy to have found you all.The information I am researching 
is 
> for my maternal ggg mother.
> Her name was Anselma Rodriguez, born 1860 in Nochitzlan, Zacatecas, 

Hello or Holla to everyone,
My name is Hope Carmona Wilson and I am looking for information on my 
gg parents from Mexico. Like so many of us who are American by birth 
and who are searching for history of our past family memebers from 
Mexico,it seems to be like looking for a needle in a hay stack.I am 
very happy to have found you all.The information I am researching is 
for my maternal ggg mother.
Her name was Anselma Rodriguez, born 1860 in Nochitzlan, Zacatecas, 
Mexico.She died and was buried in Teocaltiche,Jalisco,Mexico date?? She 
married Epifanio Ramirez,born 1850(about)His parents were Rogelio 
Ramirez & Estanisla Duran. No other information known. Via FamilyTree 
DNA testing I learned I belong to the HVR1 B GROUP. This is a native 
american group which makes sence since back then, there was no United 
States.
As I learn more information I will be happy to help others in thier 
search.
Again, I am very happy to be part of this group.
Hope aka Esperanza

Mary:

About getting around in Mexico... as someone noted earlier, the bus 
system is very good in Mexico.. nothing like Greyhound.  There are 
luxury buses that are almost always on schedule and do non-stop 
trajectories between major cities.  You should be able to get from 
Mexico City to Guanajuato without any problems on such a bus.  I have 
rented cars before and driven and believe me I enjoyed the buses much 
more.

As far as maps, the Secretaria de Communicaciones y Transporte has 
very detailed up-to-date road maps of every state in Mexico:

http://dgp.sct.gob.mx/index.php?id=440

You can also order a Guia Roji, which is the premiere road atlas of 
Mexico and is updated annually as well.

http://www.randmcnally.com/rmc/store/strProductDetail.jsp?
prod_id=9706214186

The SCT map can be searched in Adobe Reader.  From what I can tell, 
there are a number of San Felipes in Guanajuato.  The largest city by 
the name is at the intersection of Highways 51 and 37 in the northern 
part of the state.  There appear to be a number of smaller towns and 
ranchos by that name scattered throughout the state.

Here are some links to the major luxury bus companies serving routes 
between Mexico City and Guanajuato, where you can find schedules, etc:

http://www.etn.com.mx/
http://www.etn.com.mx/horariosydestinos.pdf

http://www.primeraplus.com.mx/scripts/webtaquilla.dll


--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "Josie T. Trevino" <Josiett3@s...> 
wrote:
>
> Hi Mary & Victor!    Victor is right, Mary!  It seems that things 
have
> changed a lot when one travels now.  I travel a lot and have flown 
to MX
> City alone and boarded a bus to Oaxaca to visit my daughter a few 
years
> ago....alone.  It was all very pleasant and everything went well for
> me.......and that was the first time I had travelled alone by bus 
in Mexico.
> I will say this:  Mexico has VERY NICE BUSES as well as 
those "chicken
> buses" you hear about.  I have travelled on both!  Sometimes you 
have to
> take what you can get!  :-)  When I travelled by "chicken bus" it 
was to a

Victor you do match me on 4 numbers. mine are:Haplo group A
16111T  16223T  16290T  16319A 16335G  16362C 16526A

Josie, what were your numbers if you don't mind sharing?  

Linda in Everett

--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "v.h.villarreal" 
<raices_regias@y...> wrote:
>
> Linda and Josie,
> 
> These are my HVR1 numbers: HVR1 Haplogroup A
> 16075C, 16111T, 16223T, 16239T, 16290T, 16319A, 16362C
>  
> 
> --- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "Erlinda Castanon-Long"
> <longsjourney@y...> wrote:
> >
> > Josie I had the exact same experience as you, Early in my 
research  
> > I said I have  Espanol ancestors and then my mtdna came back 
> > Haplogroup A as you said is Native American.  My female line 
goes 
> > from Jalisco to Michoacan and I have matched 2 others who's 
female 
> > line was from Guanajuato. Also like you the "Muse's" from my 
line 
> > help me do genealogy at night!  Not much sleep but lots of 
names.  
> > In fact from a dream my Gutierrez line went from Tamazula 
Jalisco 
> > back to Chilchota Michoacan from about 1680 to 1780.. I picked 
up 
> > almost 1,500 names from that dream!  I will never question what 
I 
> > don't undertand again!
> > Linda in Everett
> > --- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "Josie T. Trevino" 
<Josiett3@s...> 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Mary!    What you describe as "a strange feeling" is a good 
> > thing!!!  It
> > > happens to me all the time and the first time (a few years 
ago) I 
> > did not
> > > understand what was happening!  I now feel that it is the 
> > ancestors way of
> > > telling us that they are helping us!  I also dream of them (I 
even
> > > "attended" a wedding on 15 Aug 1810 of one of my ancestors!) 
and 
> > that dream
> > > is still quite vivid in my mind.  When I travel in Mexico I 
feel 
> > like "I am
> > > at home" and I expect to "see people that I 
know".........quite a 
> > strange
> > > feeling!  The odd thing is that I do not know of any living 
> > relatives I have
> > > in Mexico, other than a few "primos & primas" that are younger 
> > than I am!!!
> > > But that does not count!!!  I want to meet OLD people who can 
tell 
> > me their
> > > stories!  :-)  
> > > 

Mary,
Have you had a chance to search the message archives here. There was a
discussion of the collection of oral histories last spring. Enter oral
history in the search box to bring up those messages.
Also, check the "Ancestry.com" site >go to Learning Center >type in
oral history - to bring up a multitude of references regarding
collecting oral histories. There is more to read than you probably have
time for, but maybe they will provide some additional ideas. Maybe
those that you interview can tell you about what the community was like
years ago.
Good luck on your trip.

Natalie Coleman in VA

Mary,
Have you had a chance to search the message archives here. There was a 
discussion of the collection of oral histories last spring. Enter oral 
history in the search box to bring up those messages.
Also, check the "Ancestry.com" site >go to Learning Center >type in 
oral history - to bring up a multitude of references regarding 
collecting oral histories. There is more to read than you probably have 
time for, but maybe they will provide some additional ideas. Maybe 
those that you interview can tell you about what the community was like 
years ago.
Good luck on your trip.

Natalie Coleman in VA

Linda and Josie,

These are my HVR1 numbers: HVR1 Haplogroup A
16075C, 16111T, 16223T, 16239T, 16290T, 16319A, 16362C
 

--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "Erlinda Castanon-Long"
<longsjourney@y...> wrote:
>
> Josie I had the exact same experience as you, Early in my research  
> I said I have  Espanol ancestors and then my mtdna came back 
> Haplogroup A as you said is Native American.  My female line goes 
> from Jalisco to Michoacan and I have matched 2 others who's female 
> line was from Guanajuato. Also like you the "Muse's" from my line 
> help me do genealogy at night!  Not much sleep but lots of names.  
> In fact from a dream my Gutierrez line went from Tamazula Jalisco 
> back to Chilchota Michoacan from about 1680 to 1780.. I picked up 
> almost 1,500 names from that dream!  I will never question what I 
> don't undertand again!
> Linda in Everett
> --- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "Josie T. Trevino" <Josiett3@s...> 
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Mary!    What you describe as "a strange feeling" is a good 
> thing!!!  It
> > happens to me all the time and the first time (a few years ago) I 
> did not
> > understand what was happening!  I now feel that it is the 
> ancestors way of
> > telling us that they are helping us!  I also dream of them (I even
> > "attended" a wedding on 15 Aug 1810 of one of my ancestors!) and 
> that dream
> > is still quite vivid in my mind.  When I travel in Mexico I feel 
> like "I am
> > at home" and I expect to "see people that I know".........quite a 
> strange
> > feeling!  The odd thing is that I do not know of any living 
> relatives I have
> > in Mexico, other than a few "primos & primas" that are younger 
> than I am!!!
> > But that does not count!!!  I want to meet OLD people who can tell 
> me their
> > stories!  :-)  
> > 
> > Today I just received the DNA results for my mother's line (using 
> my
> > brother's DNA) and I spoke to a person at the lab in Houston that 
> does the
> > testing.  She told me that my maternal line shows a large "Native 
> American"
> > influence in the A Haplogroup......I am just learning about all 
> this DNA
> > stuff......but my father's line is all 
> documented "Espanoles"......when I
> > explained this to the lab person I was told that this is quite 
> common in

Josie I had the exact same experience as you, Early in my research  
I said I have  Espanol ancestors and then my mtdna came back 
Haplogroup A as you said is Native American.  My female line goes 
from Jalisco to Michoacan and I have matched 2 others who's female 
line was from Guanajuato. Also like you the "Muse's" from my line 
help me do genealogy at night!  Not much sleep but lots of names.  
In fact from a dream my Gutierrez line went from Tamazula Jalisco 
back to Chilchota Michoacan from about 1680 to 1780.. I picked up 
almost 1,500 names from that dream!  I will never question what I 
don't undertand again!
Linda in Everett
--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "Josie T. Trevino" <Josiett3@s...> 
wrote:
>
> Hi Mary!    What you describe as "a strange feeling" is a good 
thing!!!  It
> happens to me all the time and the first time (a few years ago) I 
did not
> understand what was happening!  I now feel that it is the 
ancestors way of
> telling us that they are helping us!  I also dream of them (I even
> "attended" a wedding on 15 Aug 1810 of one of my ancestors!) and 
that dream
> is still quite vivid in my mind.  When I travel in Mexico I feel 
like "I am
> at home" and I expect to "see people that I know".........quite a 
strange
> feeling!  The odd thing is that I do not know of any living 
relatives I have
> in Mexico, other than a few "primos & primas" that are younger 
than I am!!!
> But that does not count!!!  I want to meet OLD people who can tell 
me their
> stories!  :-)  
> 
> Today I just received the DNA results for my mother's line (using 
my
> brother's DNA) and I spoke to a person at the lab in Houston that 
does the
> testing.  She told me that my maternal line shows a large "Native 
American"
> influence in the A Haplogroup......I am just learning about all 
this DNA
> stuff......but my father's line is all 
documented "Espanoles"......when I
> explained this to the lab person I was told that this is quite 
common in
> Mexico since the Espanoles often married some of the Mexican women 
who had
> Native American heritage!  Now I will be on a quest to find my 
maternal line
> and hopefully get back to the Jalisco, Zacatecas, Queretaro, etc. 
lines of
> research......   Good luck with your research!      Josie in San 
Antonio
> 
> Mary Allen  <mailto:mary.allen3770@s...>

--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "Arturo Ramos" <arturo.ramos2@v...> wrote:
>
> In case anyone was wondering what the gadgets that Emilie is talking
> about look like and cost... I am a big technology junkie but the film
> scanner is way beyond my means.
>
> http://www.heritagecreations.com/products/st100.php
>

Why, Arturo, the ST100 Microfil Scanner is ONLY $1995.00? 

In case anyone was wondering what the gadgets that Emilie is talking 
about look like and cost... I am a big technology junkie but the film 
scanner is way beyond my means.

http://www.heritagecreations.com/products/st100.php

http://www.expansys-usa.com/product.asp?code=119781

--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "Emilie Garcia" <auntyemfaustus@h...> 
wrote:
>
> Mary, I don't know how much you know about all the new-fangled 
technical gadgets besides audio recorders and digital cameras that 
are available to serve our genealogy purposes, but if you could, 
maybe you could get some and take them with you.  You might be able 
to access some computers in certain towns at internet cafes too if 
you can't take a laptop along.  The people at the genealogy society 
here and at the local FHC have some amazing things.  One lady showed 
me a gadget she uses to scan books.  Honest, it was no bigger than a 
ruler and she would start at the top of the page and move it down, 
then she showed me on the computer what it had scanned.  Amazing.  
Then others have these little tiny things no bigger than a lipstick 
case that attaches to the back of the computer and they upload or 
download all sorts of stuff.  There are also these microfilm viewers 
that attach to your laptop so you can download images directly, no 
need for a copier, etc.  They also have tiny portable copiers for the 
laptops.  It is just amazing what tools are out there.  Even if I 
could afford them, I probably wouldn't know enough about how to use 
them (sigh).  I tried going to one of the genealogy society's 
computer classes, but it was all above my head.
> 
> Joseph's suggestions about interviewing techniques are right on the 
mark too.  I am so grateful to those university students who recorded 
oral histories on my mother's cousins and neighbors and in-laws.  
Also kudos to those WPA projects where writers would go out and 
interview people in various communities during the Depression.  I 
have found many of my relatives' and their neighbors' stories in 
these records, and some are online, others are on tape at the 
universities and they will make copies of them for small fees.
> 
> Have a wonderful time in Mexico,
> 
> Emilie Garcia
> Port Orchard, WA  ---
>   ----- Original Message ----- 

I am going to make a folder in Ranchos2 called "Members Hobbies and
Careers." This will be a place where members can upload any information
they would like other members to know about in relation to their hobbies
and careers. Information can be placed there about anything someone has
forsale or offers to other members. I will control this if it gets out
of hand but for the time being will allow members to freely upload their
information and let the "new files uploaded" messages go out to the
group one by one. Later like I said if it gets to be much I'll package
the messages and send them out once a month. Some of these hobbies are
definitely genealogy related. I'll be involved in this as well but am
not ready to get involved yet.

joseph

Mary,

I'd say that traveling by bus is OK, as bus drivers know the roads
very well.  Of course this isn't a surprise visit, right?  It might be
worth buying one of those cheap cellular phones to keep in touch with
your contacts. 

San Felipe is located in the northern part of Guanajuato.  To get an
overview of Guanajuato click on the following link.
http://www.guanajuato.gob.mx/turismo/frames/nuestroedo_2.html

For a detailed map of Guanajuato and preferably if you have a
braodband connection there's an excellent map in the next link:
http://mapserver.inegi.gob.mx/geografia/espanol/estados/gto/gto.pdf?c=459&e=11&CFID=966958&CFTOKEN=59264336

Hope this helps.  Enjoy!

Victor Villarreal

--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, Mary Allen <mary.allen3770@s...> wrote:
>
> Thank you to both Josie and Victor:
> I thought about that.  I hope that someone from those I meet in
Mexico City will offer to go with me to Guanajuato.  I have travelled
alone extensively, but now I think prudence is the best thing. I won't
drive and if I can't find a companion, would going by bus be
acceptable?  I understand it is a five hour drive from DF to the town
of San Felipe, Guanajuato.  So far I can't even find it on the map. 
Any advice is gratefully accepted.   Mary
> 
> "v.h.villarreal" <raices_regias@y...> wrote:
> Hello Josie,
> 
> Good thinking and suggestion for Mary.  Also, it goes without saying
> to always be extra cautious when it comes to safety.  If your going to
> travel by land over there get yourself the company of a trusted friend
> or relative that knows his way around;  preferably don't drive by
> night;  keep a low profile in general.
> 
> Victor Villarreal
> 
> --- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, Josiett3@s... wrote:
> >
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > <<<<<Message: 6         
> >    Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 13:44:49 -0700 (PDT)
> >    From: Mary Allen <mary.allen3770@s...>
> > <<<<Subject: Re: Answer to Mary Garana Allen
> > 
> > <<<Joseph!! I'm on a roll.  From Mexico City I am flying to 

Hello Josie,

Good thinking and suggestion for Mary.  Also, it goes without saying
to always be extra cautious when it comes to safety.  If your going to
travel by land over there get yourself the company of a trusted friend
or relative that knows his way around;  preferably don't drive by
night;  keep a low profile in general.

Victor Villarreal

--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, Josiett3@s... wrote:
>
>
>
>
> <<<<<Message: 6        
>    Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 13:44:49 -0700 (PDT)
>    From: Mary Allen <mary.allen3770@s...>
> <<<<Subject: Re: Answer to Mary Garana Allen
>
> <<<Joseph!! I'm on a roll.  From Mexico City I am flying to
>
Guanajuato.  I found <<<<another "cousin", 72 years old, who promises
> photos and a lot more information.
>
> Hi Mary!   May I suggest you take a Spanish/English dictionary when you
> travel to Mexico.  My friend Mickey Garcia and I go to Mexico quite a
> bit and, believe me, there have been times that I wished I had carried
> mine with me.  It can be a small, light-weight one but anything is a
> big help when you are talking to someone and cannot get your point
> across!  :-)  Good luck on your travels and I hope you find a wealth of
> information! 
> Josie in San Antonio, TX
>

Can someone tell me where these two ranchos are located?

Can someone tell me anything about them?

I understand that families of Apache descendancy settled here  from
the US.  Can anyone shed some light on this?

Elvira