TEST SITE - DO NOT USE - Development only

What I found was Cienega de Abajo in the municipio of Tabasco and a 
Ciana de Abajo aka Santa Potenciana in the municipio of Valparaiso.

I hope that this helps.

Jonathan

--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, Joseph Puentes <makas@n...> wrote:
>
> I looked for it but couldn't find it. I even looked in the Cubas 
> dictionary and came up with nothing.
> 
> joseph
> 
> 
> campezina wrote:
> 
> >Can someone tell me where these two ranchos are located?
> >
> >Can someone tell me anything about them?
> >
> >I understand that families of Apache descendancy settled here  from
> >the US.  Can anyone shed some light on this?
> >
> >Elvira
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > 
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> > 
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >  
> >
>

I have attached a document from FHL Intl 445242 Entierros (Tepetongo,
Zacatecas) that is a marriage document. I have found others. Being
listed among the dead is no way to start a marriage. But, it is another
reason to look at entierros.

George

Joseph Puentes wrote:

I love death records. . .hmmm, that didn't sound right.

I've found great wealth in them, but have to agree that the
information can sometimes be very slim in them. I find that if the
person was married it will many times only give the spouses name but
if the person died as a child then the parents. But in those uncommon
but wonderful cases it gives the spouse and the parents. and the age
and the location and that they were previously married (but not who
to). And the cause of death.

I've found a few that gave all the details and agonized over the ones
that I so much wanted the details but all it gave was the name of the
person and spouses name and cause of death.

my Grandfather had 11 siblings according to the birth records, but all
anyone ever knew about was 5. I haven't found all the death records
but this would be an area where these type of mysteries can be cleared
up, like Alicia said in her example.

I remember the first time I found my GGG grandmother, Eduarda Torres'
death certificate (she died 3 days after giving birth). I felt like
someone had just then died in my family. I mourned for her. . .I was
really sad.

Hi Arturo and all,

I've been following this thread because I hit a brick wall on one of 
my lines and had the same thought as Arturo--to look at the death 
records.  However, a recent post by Jonathan got me thinking of 
ordering the Informacion Matrimonial film.  I had not planned on 
ordering that film because I have a copy of the marriage record for 
the couple in question.  I've changed my mind since and I think I'll 
take my chances with the Informacion Matrimonal for the couple.  I 
may find more info there than in the death records.  I thought I 
would mention that to you Arturo, in case that film is available for 
the parrish you are interested in.

Maria

--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "Emilie Garcia" <auntyemfaustus@h...> 
wrote:
>
> Arturo,  again I have found the same things in the death records as 
has Alicia.  I always thought my grandmother was an only child, but 
when I checked birth and death records, I found that infant mortality 
was high then.  Also, if a child survived only a few hours or days, 
and was even baptized with a name, no one remembered that child since 
they hadn't gotten to know it and the mothers in their pain and 
sorrow preferred to forget and not mention them.  They had to 
concentrate on the living.  
> 
> I found that my older relatives were only aware of those infants 
who lived long enough to have been a big part of the family with 
pictures, etc.  My mother Luisa had a sister born before her named 
Luisa who only lived a few days, but she only knew of her other 
living sister Emilia and one little cutie that she had a picture of 
and remembered babysitting until the child died at nine months around 
1910.  I still have that picture of little Alejandra.  She was as 
beautiful as an angel.  My mother said of all her younger siblings 
that Alejandra had been the prettiest.  That is probably why they had 
her picture taken.  Children were not immunized for diptheria, 
measles, etc. then, so they often did not survive childhood 
diseases.  How sad. 
> 
> Emilie Garcia
> Port Orchard, WA ----
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: Alicia Carrillo<mailto:alliecar@p...> 
>   To: ranchos@yahoogroups.com<mailto:ranchos@yahoogroups.com> 
>   Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2005 9:01 AM
>   Subject: Re: [ranchos] Entierros
> 
> 
>   Arturo,
> 

Hi Arturo and all,

I've been following this thread because I hit a brick wall on one of 
my lines and had the same thought as Arturo--to look at the death 
records.  However, a recent post by Jonathan got me thinking of 
ordering the Informacion Matrimonial film.  I had not planned on 
ordering that film because I have a copy of the marriage record for 
the couple in question.  I've changed my mind since and I think I'll 
take my chances with the Informacion Matrimonal for the couple.  I 
may find more info there than in the death records.  I thought I 
would mention that to you Arturo, in case that film is available for 
the parrish you are interested in.

Maria

--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "Emilie Garcia" <auntyemfaustus@h...> 
wrote:
>
> Arturo,  again I have found the same things in the death records as 
has Alicia.  I always thought my grandmother was an only child, but 
when I checked birth and death records, I found that infant mortality 
was high then.  Also, if a child survived only a few hours or days, 
and was even baptized with a name, no one remembered that child since 
they hadn't gotten to know it and the mothers in their pain and 
sorrow preferred to forget and not mention them.  They had to 
concentrate on the living.  
> 
> I found that my older relatives were only aware of those infants 
who lived long enough to have been a big part of the family with 
pictures, etc.  My mother Luisa had a sister born before her named 
Luisa who only lived a few days, but she only knew of her other 
living sister Emilia and one little cutie that she had a picture of 
and remembered babysitting until the child died at nine months around 
1910.  I still have that picture of little Alejandra.  She was as 
beautiful as an angel.  My mother said of all her younger siblings 
that Alejandra had been the prettiest.  That is probably why they had 
her picture taken.  Children were not immunized for diptheria, 
measles, etc. then, so they often did not survive childhood 
diseases.  How sad. 
> 
> Emilie Garcia
> Port Orchard, WA ----
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: Alicia Carrillo<mailto:alliecar@p...> 
>   To: ranchos@yahoogroups.com<mailto:ranchos@yahoogroups.com> 
>   Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2005 9:01 AM
>   Subject: Re: [ranchos] Entierros
> 
> 
>   Arturo,
> 

I looked for it but couldn't find it. I even looked in the Cubas
dictionary and came up with nothing.

joseph


campezina wrote:

Can someone tell me where these two ranchos are located?

Can someone tell me anything about them?

I understand that families of Apache descendancy settled here  from
the US.  Can anyone shed some light on this?

Elvira







Yahoo! Groups Links

Josie & Linda,

We share the same haplogroup A.  Although we're not an exact match we
do match on some numbers.  Since we're dealing here with mitochondrial
DNA, in contrast to Y chromosome DNA, it means that our female common
ancestor lived thousands of years ago, in prehistorical times.

Mitochondrial DNA is best suited to determine what is called "Deep
Ancestry" of our maternal lineage.  We definitely share the same
Native American roots in the distant past.

Warm Regards,

Victor


--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "Josie T. Trevino" <Josiett3@s...> wrote:
>
> Message: 8       Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 03:55:34 -000        From:
"Erlinda
> Castanon-Long" <longsjourney@y...>
> 
> Subject: Re: Haplogroup A ancestor
> 
> Victor you do match me on 4 numbers. mine are:Haplo group A 16111T
16223T
> 16290T 16319A 16335G 16362C 16526A
> 
> Josie, what were your numbers if you don't mind sharing? 
> 
> Linda in Everett
> 
> =================================================================
> 
> Hi Linda.....Hi Victor!
> 
> Is this what you are referring to (below)
> 
> HVR1> CRS
> 16223T
> 16290T
> 16319A
> 16362C
> 
> I just printed all this out last night and really did not read it
(properly)
> due to a lack of time.  I have been in Houston for a week and unable
to do
> "my thing" with my genealogy/DNA projects.  What do these numbers
mean?   If
> any match to you (Linda & Victor) does that mean we have a common
ancestor
> "somewhere"....?  Please feel free to enlighten me as I know absolutely
> nothing about "this new DNA stuff"......I guess that tells my age!   :-)
> 
> Abrazos desde San Antonio, 
> 
> Josie
>

I've found two relatives through entierros--one said what he died of and gave his age as over 100 but he really was 86 or something similar...I know because I found his birth record before I found his entierro. In a second entierro record that was included in some nacimientos, I found my great-grandfather's first wife--Ma. Eleuteria Tovar de Gonzalez, who died in childbirth, giving birth to her third child. But can I find this record again? Noooooooo. This is frustrating.:( Marge:)

On Oct 20, 2005, at 11:01 AM, Alicia Carrillo wrote:

I'm going to be changing a rule. I will no longer be accepting
genealogies that include living relatives. This is for privacy sake. In
the early going I was lax on this point so there might be a few in the
files that include living relatives. I would strongly suggest that those
files be modified to remove those individuals.

also I've not accepted or will accept .gedcoms. . .I prefer a genealogy
report or if you must a chart.

thanks,

joseph

"Pardos Enterados: Unearthing Black Papantla in the Eighteenth Century."

Journal of Colonialism and Colonial History 5:2 | © 2004 Jason
Frederick

"Pardos Enterados: Unearthing Black Papantla in the Eighteenth
Century."

     Jason Frederick
     Penn State University, University Park

  1.

2. In 1787 Antonio Alcedo published his Diccionario
Geographico-Histórico de las Indias Occidentales o America. This work
details a variety of information on population centers throughout North
and South America. For the town of Papantla, Veracruz, Alcedo recorded
15 families of Spaniards, 535 families of "indios Mexicanos," and 200
pardos, divided into two companies of militia.1 Two centuries later
Peter Gerhard offered population figures for the same period in what has
become the standard historical geography for colonial New Spain.
Gerhard's numbers for Papantla were considerably higher than Alcedo's:
2,269 native tributaries and 215 Spanish families in 1795. Gerhard gave
no specific figures, however, for Afro-Mexicans in the area, stating
only that, "other non-indians (mostly mulattoes) settled there and
elsewhere on cattle ranches."2 Yet, as we shall soon see, the numbers of
Afro-Mexicans were in fact high. Also, as suggested by Alcedo's initial
findings, the military connection proved important for structuring the
lives of the resident black population in the area.

Can someone who has looked at films of parrish books listing burials 
tell me how extensive the information listed in these books is?  Does 
it list parents, survivors of the deceased?  I have two particular 
issues... one where I cannot connect an ancestor (Marcos LEMUS m. Maria 
Barbara YBARRA) to any one of his potential parents (children of a 
Felipe LEMUS that was the grantee of the land where Marcos lived, his 
children were born, etc.).  I cannot find a marriage or birth record 
for him...

The other is that baptismal and marriage records for Jerez, Zacatecas 
seem to be missing for the crucial period at the end of the 17th and 
beginning of the 18th century when many families moved from there to 
Totatiche, Jalisco... so I am hoping that death records will make the 
connection.

Just thought I would share my "experience" of riding the bus in Mexico.
This was in 1996. I had gone to Mexico around Holy Week to visit my 
youngest son who was in a study abroad program. Since his spring break 
coincided with Holy Week we decided to try to visit Zacatecas (I had 
previously contacted some distant cousins about the possibility of 
meeting them). According to the schedule the trip was to take 8 hours, 
so we decided to take the overnight bus, scheduled to arrive at about 6 
AM. It was a comfortable ride, but we fell asleep - slept through our 
stop (Zacatecas city)- went on two more stops (about 45 min.) then had 
to wait over an hour to catch a bus back to Zacatecas. We didn't dare 
wander away from the bus stop for fear of missing the bus back. We made 
it back OK, 'though the cousins were worried that we had not arrived at 
the appointed time.
The return trip to Mexico City was w/o incident.
 
Natalie Coleman in VA
PS - we had a lovely visit to the city - so much going on due to Holy 
Week, plus a folk festival, with performances in the evening.