TEST SITE - DO NOT USE - Development only

Your explanation is the way I understand the terminology also...but I 
have come across two records which don't make sense to me.  What I 
have seen in the past is that for illegitimate children usually it 
will say "hijo natural de {women's name} y padre no conicido."  A 
baptism record I have says "hijo legitimo de {women's name}" then it 
doesn't mention a father.  Then on this person marriage record it 
says, "hijo legitimo y vivo natural de {women's name}" and again no 
mention of a father.  The mother and son have the same last name.  
Does anyone know what this means?  If the person was born out of 
wedlock then why doens't it just say "hijo natural?"

Any insights would be greatly appreciated...

Thanks,
Angie

Bautismos are for legitimate children.  Bautismos de hijos naturales (natural children) are for illegitimate and/or out-of-wedlock children, in other words what was once referred to as "bastard" children.  Priests would keep the two separate.  The naturales were looked down upon somewhat.  But at the same time, I've seen both legitimate and illegitimate baptized children in the same book.



Steven H.

   I am looking for the ancestors of Francisco Macias from 
Zacatecas, Mexico.  He was married to Paula Banuelos of Zacatecas. 
His family later settled in El Paso, Texas. His son, Feliciano was 
my grandfather. Also from Zacatecas. I have names but no data and 
locations to search. My genealogy is on line at rootsweb.com 
under "the Jose Luis Macias family tree".  Is there another 'Macias" 
who would lkie to correspond and exchange information?

What is the difference in

"bautismos"   and

"bautismos de hijos naturales"  ????



Stella

This too shall pass.............

Steven - You found my grandpa's (Isidoro) side of the family - wow what information - and yes, my grandma's name is Librada.  My mother and aunts are going to be thrilled to see this info.  Again, Steven you are a wealth of information and I THANK YOU for finding my grandpa's side of the family.  I just can't thank you enough.



Your prima

Roberta Romero

Sorry, to inconvenience you.  I signed up for your group thinking now would be a good time to do all the research I have been wanting to do on the Alvarez name.  However, it seems my career has a mind of it's own and are presently unable to dedicate the time needed to the just cause.  Can you please remove me from your group.  Thank you.





 Sandra Alvarez

 Senior Staff Accountant

 McDermott, Will & Emery

 (tel) 312.984.6909

 (fax)312.984.3476

 salvarez@...





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For more information on McDERMOTT, WILL & EMERY please visit our website at: http://www.mwe.com/

Dear Ranchos group,



With this message I would like to point out the importance of having a wide variety of resources, besides just archival records available through microfilm.  Joseph has made the very valid point of consulting books and other printed material.  Also important is having connections and lasting friendships with people in the areas you are researching.  These connections can more often than not provide you with some information you otherwise wouldn't have access to.



In researching the question that Roberta Romero of New Mexico had for me, as to her ancestor (Is it grandfather?  I don't know.) Isidoro Martín, married to Librada Martín, and son of Margarito Martín.  Isidoro was supposedly born around 1905 in Capilla de Guadalupe.  I have a cousin, good friend, and fellow genealogist who lives in Capilla de Guadalupe, by the name of Hugo Moisés Orozco Barba.  The people at the Registro Civil know him well and give him access to the notarial records.  He was able to go there and do a little digging for me and Roberta Romero, whose primary line this is.  Take a look.

*********************************************************************************************

Hola Primo Steven.



No creo que sea necesario que le brinde los números telefónicos del registro

civil, ya que me tiene a mí, yo puedo ir y buscar la información que usted

requiera. Y por lo tanto dejeme decirle lo siguiente.



En la búsqueda intensiva encontre algo.



"Una amiga prima está buscando el nacimiento de un tal Isidoro Martín ahí en

Capilla, cerca de 1905, pero no habla español muy bien, ni sabe como

empezar.  Ella dice que el padre de Isidoro (¿o Isidro?) era Margarito

Martín pero que no se acuerda de la madre.  ¿Tú que ahí vives, me puedes

hacer el favor de investigar por mí?  Quedaría eternamente agradecido si nos

ayuda."



Encontré a un tal 1) Isidoro(Isidro) Martín González que se casó con Librada

Martín. Hijo de Margarito Martín Navarro y de su segunda esposa Macaria

González. Además de Isidoro también fueron hijos de Margarito los siguientes

retoños:

2)José Reyes Martín González, casado con María Dolores de la Torre

If any of you have any Bibliographys you'd like to contribute please
send them to me and I'll add a file in the files section. The
Bibliography I just added came from a book called "Los Altos de Jalisco"
by Jose Antonio Gutierrez Gutierrez.

There is the table of contents for this book and also a listing of
various Archives at the end of the Bibliography.

Many of the books listed in the bibliography cover a wider geographic
area than the Los Altos area.

Joseph

This may be of interest to the group:

These place names and their translations (see attachment) are
excerpts from a 100 - page booklet written by Gen. Gabriel Gavira and
apparently privately published in Mexico in 1953 (no publisher or
city given). The booklet is titled: 'NOMBRES INDIGENAS DE TODAS LAS
CIUDADES Y MUNICIPIOS DE LA REPUBLICA MEXICANA. Traduccion de su
significado en castellano.' Gavira states that '...el objeto
principal de este folleto es el de difundir los nombres indígenas y
su significado entre los moradores de los pueblos...'

Some of these translations may be out of date, given the early
publication date; but some place names and their translations I
haven't been able to find anywhere else. If anyone is aware of a
more current similar publication could you perhaps inform the group?

Also, if anyone would like names/translations from any other Mexican
state in this booklet just contact me. This attachment contains
native place names from Aguascalientes, Jalisco and Zacatecas only.

Attachment:
Place_names.doc

Description: MS-Word document

In the files section there are several small maps. One is called Cuquio 2
and another is called   Colotlan_Huejucar.
these were taken from the same map but just a section as large as the fotocopy
machine I was using would allow (11 x 17). today I went and had these maps
professionally made and I now have one very large Tiff files that is about
7300 kilobytes (big). I wouldn't dare send this to anyone unless they had
a high speed connection.



If anyone is interested in this file contact me off the list and I'll send
it to you. I am not very computer literate and tried to zip the file but
it only went from unzipped format of about 7300 kb to a zipped format of
7100 kb. . .maybe I did something wrong because I thought I would be making
the file a lot smaller by zipping it. . .???



let me know off list if you are interested or if you have an idea as to how
I can make this 7300kb file much smaller via your zip technique.



Joseph

To Ranchos group:



Well I hope everyone had a great Mothers' Day, because I sure did and was extremely busy preparing for our Mothers' Day Barbecue.  I wasn't able to reply until now, but I am glad that my few bits of data on the Martín del Campo family indeed have been so well received and have been useful to many.  And to those who said "Thank You," I say, "You're welcome."  That's you Roberta and Irma.



Also...Welcome Ronnie to the Group.  I have known Ronnie Reynoso for quite some time, as we are both residents of the Los Angeles area and Los Altos descendants.  We have met each other personally and have shared info.



In regard as to whether to share my family history data or keep it to myself, I share it willingly and without any reservations.  What good will all this stuff do either myself or anyone if I just horde it for myself?  Reminds me of the Parable of the Talents.  Only by sharing and networking our work to others out there, can we truly expand our understanding of who our ancestor were, how they lived, where they lived, etc, etc.  Besides, as the late Jaime Holcombe and currently, the great Dr. Lic. Mariano González Leal, have shown us, publishing and making widespread our genealogy work is an excellent way to leave a legacy that will endure for generations and generations.  History remembers not those that hid in the shadows, but lived in the light.



Expect more general information, advise, etc, and even more detailed info if you personally request it, from me.  Albeit not very frequently, because as a teacher, tutor (both full time jobs), member of the board of directors of SHHAR (Society of Hispanic Historical and Ancestral Research), editor in chief of SHHAR's upcoming Genealogical Journal, planning a multi-media presentation on the Cristero Rebellion for May 31, re-applying to grad school for credentials, and writing not only my own article, but also co-authoring another with a dear friend, colleague, primo, and fellow genealogist, Tony Campos...(take deep breath here)....this on top of my everyday social and private life, for some reason I don't have very much time for many other things.

have you looked at the MicroFiche at your FHC? I don't know but
sometimes looking at the Fiche gives you a different perspective with
all the Villegas in either Jalisco or Zacatecas all lumped together. If
you haven't have a look it will be a different kind of search to be
sure. . .also those records were last updated in 1992 and hopefully all
your relatives were included in that last batch. but again all the stuff
you find on Fiche is suppose to be on the FamilySearch Website but its
just something different to look at that might reveal a clue for your.

joseph



Evie Villegas wrote:

Joseph, I really do appreciate your help and just have the feeling
that the answer lies in Ameca. However those records are incomplete
and not many exist. I will just have to go around this roadblock
somehow. There are only two Bartolome possibilities in that time
frame recorded so maybe I will find the connection yet. One Bartolome
has Juan for a father. I haven't given up for good yet. Thanks
again. Evie

_________________________________________________________________

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Hola Rancho Members,my name is Ronnie Reynoso ,my search takes me to 
Los altos area -towns -San Julian ,union de san antonio,san Jose de 
los Reynoso and San Miguel el alto.Surnames are many -
Reynoso,Padilla,Magana Centeno,Munoz ,Portillo,Marquez and much 
more.Early names include Romo de Vivar ,Ledesma de La Torre ,Paredes 
de Franco,Gutierrez de Hermosillo,Garcia de (Ramirez and Hermosillo)
and more.Oh before I forget hola Paco(Steve Hernandez)thanks for the 
e-mails you send ,and for the members Steve Hernandez is also a new 
founded relative.I tend to believe I am related to a vast majority of 
people in the Los altos area.Any way thank you for membership.
Ronnie Reynoso ,pariente a casi todos de Los Altos.

Evie I know you probably already saw these but just in case you haven't
here is what I found:

JOSEPHA LEONICIA BILLEGAS FLORES

Female
Christening:

30 APR 1760   San Luis, Colotlan, Jalisco, Mexico

 Father:  JUAN BILLEGAS Family

Mother: PASQUALA FLORES
Batch No.: Dates: Source Call No.: Type: Printout Call No.: Type:
C602863 1755 - 1768 0443673

====================
who might this be?:

YGNOCENCIA JOSEPHA BILLEGAS

Female
11 JAN 1762 San Luis, Colotlan, Jalisco, Mexico

 Father:  JUAN BILLEGAS Family

Mother: PASQUALA DE LA TRINIDAD
Batch No.: Dates: Source Call No.: Type: Printout Call No.: Type:
C602863 1755 - 1768 0443673

=====================

and this?:

JOSEPHE BARTOLO VILLEGAS
09 SEP 1764   San Luis, Colotlan, Jalisco, Mexico
 Father:  JUAN VILLEGAS Family

Mother: PASQUALA DE LA TRINIDAD
Batch No.: Dates: Source Call No.: Type: Printout Call No.: Type:
C602863 1755 - 1768 0443673

============================

JOSE TOMAS VILLEGAS FLORES

Male
Christening:

29 DEC 1792   San Luis, Colotlan, Jalisco, Mexico
 Father:  JUAN JOSE FLORENCIO VILLEGAS Family

Mother: MARIA PASCUALA FLORES
Batch No.: Dates: Source Call No.: Type: Printout Call No.: Type:
C602865 1790 - 1805 0443675

======================

this one looks way to late to apply but ????:

JOSE CHRISTINO DE SANTIAGO VILLEGAS RODRIGUES

Male
Christening:

07 AUG 1791   San Luis, Colotlan, Jalisco, Mexico
 Father:  BARTOLO VILLEGAS Family

Mother: MARIA NARCISA RODRIGUES
Batch No.: Dates: Source Call No.: Type: Printout Call No.: Type:
C602865 1790 - 1805 0443675

Hi Evie:

Did you check matrimonios and marriage informacion records?  Marriage
informacion should give detailed information.  Hang in there, I'm
in the same boat it gets hard when you are in the mid 1700's.  I 
have also viewed baptism records when they give no last names for the child
and it's frustrating.

Carol

evievillegas wrote:

 I am desperately in need of advice. 
Juan Florencio Villegas was

born in Ameca, JAL and married to Pascuala Flores in 1759 in

Colotlan, JAL. He died there in 1801.  On the marriage document

his parents are listed as Bartolome de Villegas and Nicolasa

Rodrigues.  His death certificate lists only his wife's name
and

no birthplace.  The only Juan birth possibility I could find
in

Ameca  was a Juan Rodrigues born in Ameca to a Bartolome

with no last name, but the time period was too early (1696) and

the mother's first name is not the same.  I have the birth
records

of 4 possible brothers and sisters who were born in Tlaltenango

De Sanchez Roman, ZAC.  Their births occurred between 1729

and 1734.  Several of them married in Colotlan near the time
of

Juan's marriage.  However, the parents listed for these

possibilities are Bartolome Villegas and either Maria Nicolasa,

Juana Nicolasa or Nicolasa de la Cruz and not Nicolasa

Rodrigues.  Still hoping these are all members of Juan's family

but need help to determine this and find the birth record of either

Juan or Bartolome.  The padrino for Juan's marriage was Maria

Saldana and  Petra Saldana was the padrino for Juan's

daughter who was born in Colotlan in 1760.  I became frustrated

a couple of years ago and have just resumed the search. Can

anyone help me?  Thanks.  Evie

 

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:

ranchos-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

 

 

I am desperately in need of advice.  Juan Florencio Villegas was 
born in Ameca, JAL and married to Pascuala Flores in 1759 in 
Colotlan, JAL. He died there in 1801.  On the marriage document 
his parents are listed as Bartolome de Villegas and Nicolasa 
Rodrigues.  His death certificate lists only his wife's name and 
no birthplace.  The only Juan birth possibility I could find in 
Ameca  was a Juan Rodrigues born in Ameca to a Bartolome 
with no last name, but the time period was too early (1696) and 
the mother's first name is not the same.  I have the birth records 
of 4 possible brothers and sisters who were born in Tlaltenango 
De Sanchez Roman, ZAC.  Their births occurred between 1729 
and 1734.  Several of them married in Colotlan near the time of 
Juan's marriage.  However, the parents listed for these 
possibilities are Bartolome Villegas and either Maria Nicolasa, 
Juana Nicolasa or Nicolasa de la Cruz and not Nicolasa 
Rodrigues.  Still hoping these are all members of Juan's family 
but need help to determine this and find the birth record of either 
Juan or Bartolome.  The padrino for Juan's marriage was Maria 
Saldana and  Petra Saldana was the padrino for Juan's 
daughter who was born in Colotlan in 1760.  I became frustrated 
a couple of years ago and have just resumed the search. Can 
anyone help me?  Thanks.  Evie     

How many of you are using WorldCat to find books that you might want to
do an interlibrary loan on?

did I hear one or two of you say, "What's WorldCat?"

WorldCat is a World Catalog. . .its is a catalog for the libraries of
the World.

I've been amazed at what can be found using WorldCat.

If you are a member of your local public or University library ask them
about access to WorldCat at home. On my local library's system they give
you a special password and you have access to a "bunch" of databases
including WorldCat.

Anyway any serious researcher needs to start using WorldCat and ordering
books from around the World*** (or at least around the country).

***If you find a book that is owned by another country, like lets say,
uh, Mexico, you will have a much better chance of getting it on Inter
Library Loan if you make the request through your most prestigious local
University. There is something about loaning books to other Educational
institutions that opens doors.

If you are not a University student or Alumni there are ways you can get
borrowing and possibly ILL privileges.

joseph

ps: to all the mothers in the group. . .happy mothers day.

Hi Maria,

Yes, I will be happy to look for Miguel Jose Castaneda for you. I also have "Luna" in my line and will be looking for Gertrudis de Luna.

Saludos, Helyn

Hi Helyn,

In your intro you said that you had just checked out a film for

Tlaltenango de Sanchez Roman from the late 1700's.  It just so

happens that I am interested in one record that might be in that

film.  I am interested in Miguel Jose Castañeda, son of Pedro

Castañeda and Gertrudis de Luna.  His christening date is 9 Oct

1777.  Please let me know if you can help.

Maria

Hi Helyn,
In your intro you said that you had just checked out a film for 
Tlaltenango de Sanchez Roman from the late 1700's.  It just so 
happens that I am interested in one record that might be in that 
film.  I am interested in Miguel Jose Castañeda, son of Pedro 
Castañeda and Gertrudis de Luna.  His christening date is 9 Oct 
1777.  Please let me know if you can help.
Maria

two quick things:

1) I'm wanting to keep the genealogies in the non-public "Files"
section. I'm pretty sure I've moved everyones Genealogy submission from
their individual email to the files section. It is then my intent to
delete those emails from the email archive. With some I'll probably put
the email message itself into a "text file" in their folder along with
their Genealogy submission.

2) Since I didn't get any negative feedback I'm going to move ahead and
add Aguascalientes to the Geographical area of research interest for
this group.

joseph

ps: check out my new webpage:
http://www.usgenealogy.net/members/joseph27703/ they give you 30
megabytes free so I eventually might be freeing up some of the Yahoo
Files space up for the newcomers and adding a link in the "links"
section to this page.

I struggled for over a year, attempting to find my father's birth record (another story, another time) I recalled my mother mentioning a cousin of my father's that had lived here in California, Bruno Castaneda. I procrastinated for some time, as I was not interested in researching Bruno's line as I was intent in a direct line...my...my...I learned a lesson here.

I sent for a copy of Bruno's original application from Social Security which stated that he was born in Chimaltitan, Jalisco, I then ordered the film for Chimaltitan which opened some new horizons, that information is attached. Although this is not my direct line, perhaps it will be helpful to someone.

I believe the grandfathers of my father, Ramon Castaneda, and his cousin, Bruno Castaneda were brothers: Maximino Castaneda and Maneor Castaneda due to the approximate years of birth.

Con Saludos, Helyn

Attachment:
Maximino Castaneda.doc

Description: Binary data

I just realized that I have not looked at my Castaneda records for over a year, as I have been researching my mother's line, and I have not had the names proofread.  If I pursue that task now it would be weeks before it is accomplished. So for now, I would rather submit my records as promised. Please see attachment.

Thank you, Helyn Sparkman de Castaneda

Attachment:
Castaneda 1.doc

Description: Binary data

Hello Ranchos group.

>From Roberta Romero

I would like to say thanks to Stephen Hernandez for soooo much of his 
genealogy work and his sharing it with the group.  

For some reason my oldest aunt does not want to share information on 
my family. So I ask the group and Stephen if they have any 
information on my grandfather - his name is Isidoro Martin born @ 
1905 in Jalisco.  His father's name was Margarito Martin.  Margarito 
had a ranch and two of his children remained on the ranch, they are 
Rafael Martin and Maria Martin (not sure if she married).  My oldest 
aunt does not remember her grandmother's name, but she says she 
remembrs the name Capilla de Guadalupe.  My aunt did share a story - 
she says that the federales killed my grandfather's brother - she 
thinks his name was Everisto (sp?).  They also had children named 
Juanita and Cholie (sp?).

Any info would be help.

Thanks.

Roberta Romero
Albuquerque, NM

I second that!  Irma

-----Original Message-----
From: Joseph Puentes [mailto:makas@...]
Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2003 5:35 AM
To: ranchos@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [ranchos] cousins



well I'm really glad you are making so much progress.  .  .but all I 
have to say is. . ."develop." Yes now you have been given a lot of your 
genealogy so don't be content with the way it is. Take some of that 
information and order the films and confirm it for yourself. Take the 
information and develop it further. Take some of the later generations 
and add some of the flesh to the bones and add a biography to those that 
you can get info about. Write your mom's or your grandmom's biography. . 
.it doesn't have to be (but it can) real long but even just a few pages 
will be wonderful for someone to read 5 generations from now. Start 
working your genealogy into a form that you can pass to all the branches 
of your family so that this great information won't be forgotten again. 
Let us be the generation that stops the forgetting and starts the 
remembering.

"Vamos a parar ovildando y comensar acordando."

I'm so happy for you,
joseph

SJLSTAR@... wrote:

> Joseph,
> I can't thank you enough for what has happened to me!!! I have 
> connected with three cousins!!! or should I say they connected with 
> me!! This is so awesome........I never tried to trace this line 
> because it seemed so hopeless..........yet its the easiest so 
> far......with familysearch org the records are right online.....yes I 
> have to order records.....etc.......but to talk to my cousins......and 
> go to my mother and ask her this this and this..........I have been 
> calling her everyday with something...........I use to call her once a 
> month.......I have even reconnected with her............THANK YOU!!!!
> Stella
> This too shall pass.............
>
>
>
>
>
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