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Hi Angie:

In my experience viewing matrimonios versus Informacion matrimonials,
Informacion matrimonials are more detailed   They can sometimes
be two to three pages and they are usually testimonies of how the bride
and groom know each other, testimonies from other family members of how
they know the bride/groom etc.  Usually these records are found a
few months prior to the marriage possibly a month or two before the actual
wedding takes place.  One time I actually lucked out on viewing this
type of information in Michoacan records and they listed my maternal great-grandmother's
genealogy family tree three generations going back which was wonderful. 
On the matrimonios records I usually just find a few paragraphs giving
basic information on the marriage, date, padrinos etc., parents and sometimes
grandparents are listed if they are still living.

Hope this helps out!

Carol

aajay1073 wrote:

 Does anyone know.....

When I look up information for Mexico, Jalisco, Colotlan - Church

records, it lists the film titles, dates, and number.  Does
anyone

know the difference between 'Información matrimonial'

and 'Matrimonios'?  I am looking for information on a marriage
that

took place in 1881.  What information will I find in list
(1) vs (2)?

(1) Información matrimonial 1880-1882 -  VAULT INTL
Film [ 443732 ]

(2) Matrimonios 1875-1896 -  FHL INTL Film [ 443787 ]

Thanks,

Angie

 

 

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Does anyone know.....

When I look up information for Mexico, Jalisco, Colotlan - Church 
records, it lists the film titles, dates, and number.  Does anyone 
know the difference between 'Información matrimonial' 
and 'Matrimonios'?  I am looking for information on a marriage that 
took place in 1881.  What information will I find in list (1) vs (2)?

(1) Información matrimonial 1880-1882 -  VAULT INTL Film [ 443732 ]
(2) Matrimonios 1875-1896 -  FHL INTL Film [ 443787 ]

Thanks,
Angie

Santo Thomas De Momax, Momax, Zacatecas, Mexico



Bautismos: 1776-1875



Batch No.:       Dates:            Source Call No.:

C600841          1776 - 1811    0443987 

J600842           1811 - 1829    0443988 

C600843          1829 - 1850    0443989

C600844          1850 - 1875    0443990



Matrimonios: 1776-1885



 Batch No.:       Dates:              Source Call No.:

 M600845          1776 - 1885      0444019 

http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=jalisco&id=I9429

this was too good to not send to the group. Then again does anyone know
if the boundarys of the various Estados might have been extended up to
the present day SW US?:

12. Maps of the Pimeria: Early Cartography of the Southwest
http://www.library.arizona.edu/pimeria/welcome.html

The Pimeria was a region (never defined with any exacting detail) of Spanish
colonial Mexico that encompassed what is now southern Arizona and northern
Sonora. Derived from the Pima Indians who live in the region, the name first
appeared on a map prepared in 1696. This online collection consists of over
thirty separate maps, ranging in date from 1556 to 1854. Each map features
detailed cataloging information, along with a brief profile of the
cartographer responsible for creating each document. A built-in viewer also
allows visitors to zoom in and out of each map, as well as adjust the pixel
size to their liking. The site is rounded out by a discussion of the methods
used to create the online exhibit, along with credits to the respective
personnel at the University of Arizona who made the project possible. [KMG]

I posted a new link in the Links section.  I came across this Jalisco 
and Zacatecas Rootsweb family tree with over 5000 individuals.  It's 
very complete and detailed.

Maria

I'd love to send you a pile of names of my maternal grandmothers
relatives, but as I previously said I don't know which is any of the
Atotonilco's she came from and even which if any of these three names is
her real name: Adela Torres, Maria Garcia or Antonia Lopez.

I'll be spending some significant time looking through some US Census
records and will consider how to proceed with my guessing research in
the Atotonilco area.

thanks so much for your kind offer of help to the group, very generous.

Joseph

canprin wrote:

Dear Group--

I have early records and later records of all sorts for Atotonilco el
Alto. My husband's family was there for many generations. I have a
good index of over 11,000 names and various other files as
well. I go once a week to research and help others in the local
Family History Center. Usually I am the only one there because it is
such a small place. If you have names you would like me to look up,
send me as much information as possible. I will do my best. I like
to help people and if I find something, I will research it to its
conclusion.

I have been looking for Juan Florencio Villegas (early 1700's) who was born
in Ameca. Now I see that there exists an Ameca la Vieja. Could this
possibly have been the only Ameca during this time period? Evie

_________________________________________________________________

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Dear Group--

I have early records and later records of all sorts for Atotonilco el 
Alto.  My husband's family was there for many generations.  I have a 
good index of over 11,000 names and various other files as 
well.  I go once a week to research and help others in the local 
Family History Center.  Usually I am the only one there because it is 
such a small place.  If you have names you would like me to look up, 
send me as much information as possible.  I will do my best.  I like 
to help people and if I find something, I will research it to its 
conclusion.

When I first started, I looked at some file cards in the FHC and saw 
that one said Atotonilco el Filto.  My husband had told me that there 
was more than one Atotonilco and that I must only search for 
Atotonilcoe el Alto.  After awhile, I found that the Altotonilco el 
Filto was my Atotonilco el Alto but the person who had written the 
file card couldn't read the original Spanish.  I do know that 
Atotonilco el Bajo is not mine nor even close to where I am 
researching.  

If I were to see records and all they had on them was 
Atotonilco, I would research them.  It might be what I need.  Most of 
my husband's family were born in little ranchos and not in 
the municipio which was Atotonilco el Alto.  The records are in the 
municipio but the ranchos have names like Milpillas, Santa Elena, San 
Joaquin, Margaritas, etc. and that is what I pay special attention 
to.  Remember for me, the most important factor in researching is 
location, location, location.  

My families stayed in certain ranchos and mostly didn't move much.  
But then again sometimes they did.  After you have researched for a 
time, you get a feel for the land and you can tell if the person in 
question is yours or not...even when they start changing their names 
and using completely different SURNAMES!

The best reason to have a group to help you, is that you can't 
usually do all the work all by yourself...at least I can't.  Also 
because our ancestors did move and sometimes get lost to view, when 
you are looking in what should surely be the right spot and can't 
find anything, someone else will find them or a relative in a 
completely different place and soon you will be able to start 
researching for a whole new part of your tree.

So here I am, it is Tuesday and my day for the library is Thursday.  
Send me your names and I will check here at home and also at the 
FHC.  

                          Sincerely,

I've removed one message from the archives that I thought had personal
information that shouldn't be made public. If any others of you would
like to have a select message here or there removed let me know directly:

makas@...

thanks,

joseph

Regarding pdf & rtf:  Yes, either pdf or rtf will work for you.  The 
point I was trying to make is that your genealogy software may not 
have the capability of generating one or the other format.  It sounds 
like your software FTM 10 can export to either format.  Everyone 
should be able to open an rtf file since it's just a text file.  With 
pdf you have to have the Adobe Acrobat Reader installed on your 
machine in order to view pdf files.  That shouldn't be a problem 
since the reader is free.  I cannot generate pdf files since I use 
PAF 5 and it doesn't export to pdf, only to rtf.

The only thing I can think of why our rtf files are different is the 
software used to generate them.  I don't it's anything that you did, 
but rather the software that you use to generate them.

Well, the strength of working as a group, is that we are all learning 
from one another.  The technical stuff is just my cup of tea, as I am 
a computer programmer.  


Maria

take a look at the groups home page: 

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ranchos 

for the New Description of the group. I've also opened the message
archives to the public. I want to keep our personal genealogies in the
files section and not in the email archive section. . .so please send
them to me so I can make a file for you and input them in the "files"
area. Only the message archive is open to the public and not the files
area. Also the public won't be able to post to or receive messages. .
.other than reading them once they arrive in the archives. 

joseph

Yes, I am also extremely thankful for the maps.  I have been searching for
maps that would include the ranches that my family descends from, and many
were listed on these maps.  El Aguila, Corral de Piedra, Santa Ana (which of
course is no longer a ranch, but a small town), San Isidro, La Labor, just
to name a few.  
Fortunately my folks remember many of them, but the maps are very helpful to
me.  My maternal grandfather (the geneologist who inspired me) was a
surveyor, and would often mention these ranches to my mother as he left in
the morning to measure land and create maps for many individuals in the
Jalostotitlan-San Juan de los Lagos area. I sure wish I could get my hands
on some copies of these maps.  Knowing which ranches family members lived on
really aids when looking at Baptismal microfilms.
Thanks again!  Irma

-----Original Message-----
From: canprin [mailto:canprin@...]
Sent: Monday, April 07, 2003 5:18 PM
To: ranchos@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [ranchos] My Contribution


Dear Researchers--
     I love to see your emails.  I loved looking at the most recent 
maps (might have been more...I'm not sure.)
     I am a serious researcher.  I have found that sometimes people 
take information and don't give back.  So far, I have not seen any 
links between your branches and the ones I do for my husband Ramon.  
I do make contact with others whose lines are the same but they may 
not come across on the website.  
     Most recently, I was in contact with Steven Hernandez about a 
death in the 1780's in the Atotonilco el Alto area.  Now I will be 
looking for second marriage data in Atotonilco or perhaps Ayo el 
Chico (now known as Ayotlan) or Tepatitlan.  
     Perhaps there are others in my same situation.  I am just 
waiting for you to move down a little more to the south and west in 
Jalisco in your research of ranchos.  I even have some lines that are 
in northern Michoacan.
     Keep looking and I will too.  
                          Sincerely,
                    Patricia Diane Godinez 
        



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Atotonilco el Bajo, Jalisco---Bautismos

C601951   1802 - 1833   0233979
C601952   1833 - 1848   0233980

C601955 1847 - 1848 0233980

C601953 1849 - 1875 0233981

================

Atotonilco el Alto, Jalisco---Bautismos

C603001 1699 - 1749 0222109
C603002 1749 - 1769 0222110
C603003 1769 - 1777 0222111
C603004 1777 - 1785 0222112
C603005 1785 - 1793 0222113
C603006 1793 - 1799 0222114
C603007 1799 - 1808 0222115
C603008 1806 - 1811 0222116
C603009 1811 - 1817 0222117
C603011 1817 - 1821 0222118

C603012   1821 - 1824   0222119

C739165   1826-1828

C603013 1824 - 1828 0222120
C603014 1828 - 1832 0222121
C603015 1832 - 1835 0222122
C603016 1835 - 1839 0222123

C603017   1839 - 1844   0222124

C603018 1844 - 1846 0222125
C603019 1846 - 1852 0222126

J603021   1852 - 1856   0222127
C603022   1856 - 1861   0222128
J603023   1861 - 1864   0222129
J603024   1864 - 1868   0222130
C603025   1868 - 1872   0222131

==============

Atotonilco el Alto, Jalisco---Matrimonios

M603027 1811 - 1822 0222190
M603028 1822 - 1827 0222191
M603029 1827 - 1834 0222192
M603031 1834 - 1845 0222193
M603032 1845 - 1850 0222194
M603033 1850 - 1860 0222195

M603034   1860 - 1874   0222196
M603035   1874 - 1877   0222197

M603036 1877 - 1883 0222198
M603037 1883 - 1885 0222199

canprin wrote:

Most recently, I was in contact with Steven Hernandez about a
death in the 1780's in the Atotonilco el Alto area. Now I will be
looking for second marriage data in Atotonilco

I guess I'm grasping at straws here, but I really don't know my moms
moms name, my maternal grandmother. All I have is a whisper of info on
her and 3 aliases (Adela Torres, Maria Garcia, Antonia Lopez), one of
which, the last one, looks like it really might be her name. . . .then
again I have an argument or two on why the middle name is the right one
and a tombstone with the first one that I'm pretty sure isn't her right
name but might have been a previous somebodys name.

But a tidbit of info that is the reason I'm writing about is that my Tio
(her son) says that he overheard that she was born in Jalisco. My Tia
(her daughter) said in one conversation something about Atotonilco, then
in a different conversation something about "El Alto or El Bajo." The
above memories are the fuzzy memories of 80 year old people from when
they were about 10 years old.

I've  heard that there is a third Atotonilco that is just plain Atotonilco.

I guess I need to just order some films and see what I find in either El
Alto or El Bajo. . .her tombstone says a DOB of 1892 and oral history
says that she was very much younger than my Grandfather Luis Perez who
was mostlikely borne in 1872 or maybe 1878 in either Las Cruzes, NM or
morelikely Juarez, Chihuahua.

I guess I'm looking for what some of the more experienced researchers on
the list have done when they have been in situation where they are
unsure how to proceed. Right now I haven't exhaused the US Census
records where they lived in the US in 1920 and 1930.

Dear Researchers--
     I love to see your emails.  I loved looking at the most recent 
maps (might have been more...I'm not sure.)
     I am a serious researcher.  I have found that sometimes people 
take information and don't give back.  So far, I have not seen any 
links between your branches and the ones I do for my husband Ramon.  
I do make contact with others whose lines are the same but they may 
not come across on the website.  
     Most recently, I was in contact with Steven Hernandez about a 
death in the 1780's in the Atotonilco el Alto area.  Now I will be 
looking for second marriage data in Atotonilco or perhaps Ayo el 
Chico (now known as Ayotlan) or Tepatitlan.  
     Perhaps there are others in my same situation.  I am just 
waiting for you to move down a little more to the south and west in 
Jalisco in your research of ranchos.  I even have some lines that are 
in northern Michoacan.
     Keep looking and I will too.  
                          Sincerely,
                    Patricia Diane Godinez 
        

readysetgo95814 wrote:

Joseph,

Thanks for putting those maps out there. Those are some great maps
with a lot of detail.

glad you liked them. Did you find the small ranchos that your people
came from??

I agree with you about changing the focus of the group. It helps the
whole group when everyone contributes. I think a good case in point
is how you and Angie found a link between you. This was made
possible by both of you posting your genealogies. I have a lot more
data that isn't in the reports I posted out here. The reason the
data isn't there is because I created ancestry reports which only
generate my direct line ancestors. I have data on non-direct line
ancestors that I would be willing to share if I knew they were of
interest to someone. I'll never know who might be interested in them
unless everyone posts their genealogy reports.

I'll continue to encourage those in the group to send their work in. I
know that Rich and Kitty Cortez have already sent me a lot of their work
that is almost ready to go into the files section but I was away when
they were ready and we're now getting back to it.

=================

I have another old question for you. . .boy sometimes a person just
needs to admit or continue to admit they are a bit or a lot ignorant in
the technical field. . .

Joseph,

Thanks for putting those maps out there.  Those are some great maps 
with a lot of detail.
I agree with you about changing the focus of the group.  It helps the 
whole group when everyone contributes.  I think a good case in point 
is how you and Angie found a link between you.  This was made 
possible by both of you posting your genealogies.  I have a lot more 
data that isn't in the reports I posted out here.  The reason the 
data isn't there is because I created ancestry reports which only 
generate my direct line ancestors.  I have data on non-direct line 
ancestors that I would be willing to share if I knew they were of 
interest to someone.  I'll never know who might be interested in them 
unless everyone posts their genealogy reports.

Maria

Hello Everyone,

This is what I've been thinking and was wondering what you all thought.

My original intention for the group is a place where "serious"
researchers (or those desiring to be) could exchange ideas and
genealogies in the hopes of extending their work.

Present company excluded, I know there are a lot of folks that like to
extend their work by finding others that have done a lot of hard work
and using their efforts for their own genealogy. Now I have nothing
against finding others and reaping the benefits of their work as long as
the receiving party is also doing their own research and trying to take
that info and carry it further or even branch out with it. So with that
thought in mind I was thinking of changing the group description to
this. Please let me know what you think:

This group is for those actively searching for their Mexican Genealogy
Roots. Para hallar el Arbole Genealogia. The intent but never the
requirement is to stay focused on the Ranchos of Jalisco and Zacatecas.
If you are a serious researcher or want to be a serious researcher this
group is for you. If you have no intention on doing your own research I
would suggest the multitude of message boards available at Rootsweb.
Please scan through the message archive, which is open to the general
public, to get an idea of what is meant by doing your own research.

joseph

Dear Joseph

I tried to enter rancho@yahoogroups.com this morning and there was no
reply,  I just couldn't get in, what happened?   Also I
didn't get any emails from rancho in a day or two.

Thank you

Mary

Joseph Puentes wrote:

 

thank you so much for this encouragement. I can't tell you why but
early on in my use of the FamilySearch website I've gotten used to using
the IGI "only" and I can see now that I really need to be doing my searches
using the "all resources" search feature.

thanks again. . .I'm converted.

joseph

 

aajay1073 wrote:

thank you so much for this encouragement. I can't tell you why but early
on in my use of the FamilySearch website I've gotten used to using the IGI
"only" and I can see now that I really need to be doing my searches using
the "all resources" search feature.



thanks again. . .I'm converted.



joseph





aajay1073 wrote:

--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, Joseph Puentes <makas@n...> wrote:

> go to:  http://www.familysearch.org
> 
> Anyway after looking around click on the Search tab.
> 
> then on the left side click on the IGI link
> 

I wouldn't search in just the IGI tab (link).  Search in the All 
Resources tab.  It would automatically search in the International 
Genealogical Index (IGI) tab, the Vital Records Index (VRI) tab, and 
the Ancestral File tab.  One search for all three tabs!  The only 
problem is that it searches the other tabs which may not apply.  Just 
use the 'Sources Searched' section on your search results page, to 
see the full results in the selected tab (Ancestral File, IGI/Mexico, 
VRI/Mexico).  And then you will only need to drill down the tabs that 
apply.  The information in the VRI tab is more informative than the 
IGI tab.  It will include the parents and grandparents in christening 
records and the parents of the bride and groom in marriage records, 
and it includes miscellanous notes.  Films in the IGI index are not 
generally found in the VRI index and vice versa.  There is one 
excpetion.  I have noticed Totatiche, Jalisco, Mexico, Batch Number - 
M617071 (1755-1807) in both tabs, but M617072 (1807-1853) is only in 
the VRI tab.  Then C617076 (1779-1798) is only in the IGI and C617077 
(1798-1820) is only in the VRI.

See for your self, how the information is different.
VRI LISTING:
Maria de la Luz VALDES
Sex: <F>
Age At Marriage: 25
Birth: <1778>
Parents:
Father: Jose Leandro VALDES
Mother: Maria Josefa GRANO
Marriage:
Spouse: Ygnacio DE ABILA
Age At Marriage: 28
Marriage: 09 Feb 1803  Place: Totatiche, Jalisco, Mexico
Notes:
Additional data in original record
Husband previously married
Source Information:
Batch Number: M617071
Source Dates: 1755 - 1807
Film or Fiche Number: 1164031
Collection Details: Catolica

IGI LISTING:
MARIA DE LA LUZ VALDES
Female
Marriages: 
Spouse:  YGNACIO DE ABILA
Marriage:  09 FEB 1803   Totatiche, Jalisco, Mexico
Messages:
Extracted marriage record for locality listed in the record. The 
source records are usually arranged chronologically by the marriage 
date.
Source Information:
Batch No.:  Dates:  Source Call No.
M617071  1755 - 1807  1164031

Same exact record.  But VRI has more information!!!

Hope this helps!

-Angie

I have only seen Pio as a nickname for Pioquinto, (and Pia for 
Pioquinta).

- Angie

P.S.  I am working on getting some information to you on Manuel 
Romero and Ana Maria Casas.  I'll send an email in the next couple of 
days.

If your mom was registered in Chihuahua, Chihuahua then you hopefully can
find her in the civil records of that town. I'd say to look at the church
records but would be unsure which church she was baptised in. Later you can
order the films one at a time to find her. Anyway here is the listing of
the Civil records for Chihuahua up to the 1905 time period. . .I think that
is where I would start. If you need help in understanding how I found this
information on the Family Search Website let me know and I'll walk you through. 
Note that if you can't find them here and decide to check the church records
you might have to find them under the listing of "Hijos Naturales" since
you believe the parents were never married:

Title

Registros civiles, 1861-1992

Authors

Chihuahua (Chihuahua). Registro Civil (Main Author)

Notes

Microfilme de manuscritos en el Archivo Central del Registro Civil de
la Ciudad de Chihuahua.

La mayoría de los libros incluyen índice ordenado por apellidos.

Civil registration of births, marriages, and deaths from the city of Chihuahua,
Chihuahua, Mexico.

Most of the registers include a surname index.

Subjects

Mexico, Chihuahua, Chihuahua - Civil registration

Format

Manuscript (On Film)

Language

Spanish

Publication

Salt Lake City : Filmados por la Sociedad Genealógica de Utah, 1992

Physical

290 carretes de microfilme ; 35 mm.

Hi Joseph,

I have a little problem locating soneone that was born somewhere in
the 1909 - 1914.

First let me mention that my grandparents didn't get married. 
Their names were Jesus Alejandro Mitre and Concepcion Gandara

Second, they had 5 children.  One in Chihuahua, Chihuahua that
I know of (my mother Elena Mitre Gandra.)  she was born on August
15, 1905.

The rest claim that they were born in El Paso, Texas. Which I don't
believe and I will tell you why.

My grandfather Jesus Mitre was a string player and played at the theator
Lydico philharmonic in Mexico City where I was told that the rest of the
clan were born.

Problem is I don't know where to search.  The LDS don't have it
and I don't know who to write to.

This is why I am asking if you can help me locate a person, or place
that I can ask for registration, and or baptizos.

Your help would be very appricated

Thank you

Mary

 

 

 

 

Joseph Puentes wrote:

 

No.

go to:  http://www.familysearch.org

spend some time looking around the site clicking all the links and see
whats available. . .its all free unless you order something. And if you
do order something like the Mexican Vital Records its soooo cheap for what
you get.

Anyway after looking around click on the Search tab.

then on the left side click on the IGI link

and then just start using the free search.

let me know if I can help you in a specific search, we can go over it
together if you have any trouble. I truly believe after you or anyone else
has done two or so searches they will be fairly confident in their ability
to navigate the basic search part of the site.

joseph

ps:

one possible discouraging note on trying to find people that are less
than 110 years old. Privacy is a concern of the LDS church and you will
rarely find info on current generations. but once you get past that 110
year area you should start seeing more info.