To Amalia --Need link to your Villalpando document

Amalia,

I think you said you uploaded something?

Can you give me the link to it?

Thanks,

Emilie

Comentarios

Comentario

I didnt know where to upload it at? I see this website is pretty particular so I dont want to put the image in the wrong folder. Do you know where?

Amalia Hernandez Arias

Comentario

Hello,
I had been a member of Nuestros Ranchos for a while, and with your help I
had been able to increase my family tree, now it is a little bit bigger than
2000 persons, although it is not only from Jalisco, I think it might be very
helpful to Nuestros Ranchos members, I have it in myheritage.com, how or
where can I upload it in Nuestros Ranchos site???

Hola,
Ya tengo un ratito como miembro de Nuestros Ranchos, con su ayuda he logrado
crecer mi árbol genealógico a poco mas de 2000 personas, aunque no todo es
de Jalisco, por lo menos la mitad si lo es.
Considero que sería de gran ayuda para varios miembros de Nuestros Ranchos,
actualmente lo tengo en myheritage.com, existe alguna manera de poder
cargarlo en su sitio o en que parte lo puedo cargar....

MUCHAS GRACIAS

Comentario

put the link in an email and send it to the group. Does myheritage.com
require membership or some type of password to access the info. I'm not
sure you want everyone to have this information if it does.

if the information can be downloaded to your computer in gedcom format
then you can upload it to the gedcom area of the website. Let me know if
you want to upload a gedcom and I'll create a tree for you that area.

joseph

======================

Joseph Puentes
NoMeat@h2opodcast.com
http://h2opodcast.com/vsse.html (Vegan Environmental Solutions Podcast)
http://h2opodcast.com (Environmental Podcast)
http://h2opodcast.blogspot.com (Blog for above)
http://PleaseListenToYourMom.com (Women's Peace Podcast)
http://NuestraFamiliaUnida.com (Latin American History Podcast)
http://nuestrosranchos.org (Jalisco, Zacatecas, and Aguascalientes
Genealogy)

patty haro wrote:
> Hello,
> I had been a member of Nuestros Ranchos for a while, and with your help I
> had been able to increase my

Link to de Villalpando records

Ok I just uploaded them to my photobucket page..

first one is the interpretation from the book Origins of New Mexico Families

Comentarios

Comentario

Amalia,

Thank you for sending those links. I didn't realize you had sent them before I sent my last post.

I think that Villa de Leon was transcribed as Villa de Con and the "il" is an abbreviation for "ijo legitimo" (legitimate son of) since the name of his parents follow. What do you think, Daniel? Does that answer the mystery?

Emilie
Port Orchard, WA

> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: hernandezmol@msn.com
> Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2011 14:28:31 -0700
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Link to de Villalpando records
>
> Ok I just uploaded them to my photobucket page..
>
> first one is the interpretation from the book Origins of New Mexico Families
>
> http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c302/1traviesa/mestazvialpando_119227…
>
> 2nd one is the interpretation from the Diligencias Matrimonias
>
> http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c302/1traviesa/DMpageVillalpando.jpg
>
> And lastly is the Juan de Villalpando marriage which the first page is missing...
>
>

Comentario

I'm anxious to see the first part of the act...as soon as I get it from the Achdiocese I will post it also...Did you get any hints in the testimonys of the other witnesses? One of them is missing also probobly on the first page. It says that the Muniz guy new him since his early years so Ive been doing searches on him also to see if I can find where he is from. Do you know where I might get the Presido enlisment lists??

Amalia Hernandez Arias

Comentario

Amalia ---

No, I didn't get any farther in that document than translating the basic info on Ambrosio's marriage, and Daniel's translation confirmed what I thought it said. The rest was just too hard for me to read.

As for Presidio Enlistment lists, they must be available from the various archives in northern New Mexico, at the State Archives, at the University in Albuquerque and in a genealogical library in Santa Fe, I believe. There is also the library of Fray Angelico in Albuquerque, and the public library there also has genealogical information.

On one of the genealogical message boards back in 2001, I found this statement:

"Two other sources fo New Mexico research are Twitchell's The Spanish Archives of New Mexico, and Olmstead's study of census records: Spanish and Mexican Colonial Censuses of New Mexico - 1790, 1823, 1845." There is a website called Beyond Origins of New Mexico Families, but it only lists the censuses for the El Paso del Norte (now Juarez) area

Jauregui from Nochistlan, Teocaltiche, Mexticacan & Yahualica

Ray Jauregui, Bill Figueroa and John Gonzales,

Thanks to each of you for your replies and your interest in Los Jauregui's from the regions of Los Altos.
We may never know the truth about the Jauregui's and yes it's probably pretty colorful lore about some Don Jauregui, which one? we'll probably never know but to hear these ladies talk you would think they knew firsthand. All I did was listen, I don't have much on the Jauregui's and It will be a long time before I can resume my research while working 45 hours a week plus commute time. I still enjoy reading everyone's postings, especially all the newcomers, welcome all you newbies to Nuestros Ranchos.

Comentarios

Comentario

Armando and Jose Luis,
Your input is greatly appreciated, and providing the links helps lots!
Thank you,
Raymond Medrano

Comentario

Greetings to all,
I have not been able to locate Yahualica De Gonzalez San Miguel, Gallo, Jalisco.  This is all supposed to be one location but seems to have more names than usual.  Any clues would be greatly appreciated.
Raymond Medrano

Comentario

I thing you are talking about:
Yahualica de Gonzalez Gallo,Jalisco and the church is San Miguel
Jose luis Felix

> Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2011 21:02:46 -0700
> From: raymond-rmm@sbcglobal.net
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Yahualica
>
> Greetings to all,
> I have not been able to locate Yahualica De Gonzalez San Miguel, Gallo, Jalisco. This is all supposed to be one location but seems to have more names than usual. Any clues would be greatly appreciated.
> Raymond Medrano

Comentario

José Luis Felix is correct. Yahualica de González Gallo is the town.
Normally it is just called Yahualica. It's north of Tepa and west of Jalos
and south of Noshis. You can search it on Google Maps

There are two lists of church microfilms -

https://www.familysearch.org/search/catalog/show?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fcatal…

https://www.familysearch.org/search/catalog/show?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fcatal…

The images are at -
https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.family…

Wikipedia entries -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yahualica_de_Gonz%C3%A1lez_Gallo
http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yahualica_de_Gonz%C3%A1lez_Gallo

Armando

On Thu, Aug 11, 2011 at 11:13 PM, jose luis felix
wrote:

>
> I thing you are talking about:
> Yahualica de Gonzalez Gallo,Jalisco and the church is San Miguel
> Jose luis Felix
>
> > Date: Thu, 11

Where to Start

George,
Thanks for your valuable info. One question:
where would one look for consular documents?
Are they available on Family Search?
Thanks - Nancy

Comentarios

Comentario

Nancy

The only ones I've seen are in possession of family members. My mother-in-law had one for her father who immigrated to the US in the early 1900s. I've seen one other that someone brought into the Family History Center where I volunteer.

These appear to have been generated in one of the Mexican consulates near the border, or possibly from an office in Mexico. The one from my wife's family is typed on a form, with signatures, and from its state of wear and all the folds, was probably carried by her grandfather for a long time.

Since my wife's grandfather's document is a printed form, I suspect they were commonly used. The question is, how many were preserved when the owner passed away. Unfortunately, people often had the opinion that this "old stuff" was of little or no value.

The one brought in by the FHC patron was very useful in that it listed the town the person was born in. From that we could find his baptismal records, and were able to back a couple of generations.

I

Comentario

You can go to the Department of Homeland Security website and request them to search for Immigration records also, its fee based but worth a try...I am awaiting an answer on my nana Dones who migrated from San Luis Potosi in the 1940's Bracero program.

http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/menuitem.5af9bb95919f35e66f61417…

Amalia Hernandez Arias

Greetings from the new girl...

I wanted to introduce myself to everyone. My name is Marylouise Fraijo Ambriz. I just started researching my maternal grandmother's side of the family.

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Comentario

Marylouise,

I happen to come across your ggg-parents marriage record in Ciénega De Mata
(Guadalupe Macias & Tomasa Esparza) the writing is a little rough but I can
make out their parents
Guadalupe Macias parents: Manuel Macias & Maria Montoia
Tomasa Esparza parents: Cayetano Esparza & Maria Antonia Macias

If you want to see the original it can be viewed on familysearch.org
Cienega de Mata, matrimonios 1840-1858, image 123

here is the link
https://familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.familysear…

-Angelina

Comentario

Jose Manuel Macias and Maria de Montoya married 6 Mar 1791 in Cienega de Mata.
Son of Jose Antonio Macias and Juana de Dios de Lira. Maria de Montoya was a
natural daughter of Maria de Montoya.

Jose Cayetano Ruiz de Esparza and Maria Antonia Macias Valades married 9 Sep 1820 in
Asientos, Ags. Son of Gabino Ruiz de Esparza, Maria Luisa Valades and Pedro Macias,
Maria Nicolasa Diaz.

Daniel Méndez Camino

Probelms with Nuetros Ranchos website?

Is there a problem with the website?

When I click on the "Recent Posts" link, I get a list of posting from 5 years ago.

Comentarios

Comentario

It appears that permissions on the website were corrupted such that certain posts were not visible.

I believe the error has been resolved, but please let me know if there are any additional problems you run into.

Given how long the site has been running on the same code base, we may have to perform another overhaul.

More to come.

-Arturo

Comentario

That explains why I was still able to login with my account when I didn't
have one 5 years ago. I was thinking maybe the user accounts and the other
data were from completely different databases, but obviously not the case.

Armando

On Thu, Aug 11, 2011 at 1:26 PM, wrote:

> It appears that permissions on the website were corrupted such that certain
> posts were not visible.
>
> I believe the error has been resolved, but please let me know if there are
> any additional problems you run into.
>
> Given how long the site has been running on the same code base, we may have
> to perform another overhaul.
>
> More to come.
>
> -Arturo

Comentario

The posts for the past 5 years, other than yours and one from Emilie, are
missing. It is as if someone restored a database that is 5 years old onto
the server.

Armando

On Thu, Aug 11, 2011 at 11:42 AM, wrote:

> Is there a problem with the website?
>
> When I click on the "Recent Posts" link, I get a list of posting from 5
> years ago.

To Amalia: Re Juan de Villalpando document

Amalia---

I found the entry below in the index of Family Search.

Comentarios

Comentario

I have another document that is a interpretation from the Diligencias matrimonias of Fray Angelico Chavez. Thats where i got the Villa de Con(il?) from, I got the original document that he interpreted it from the Archives at Santa Fe, however the testimony of the bride and groom are missing. I have a woman at the Archdioces of Santa Fe looking for a complete copy for me.
Do you know where on here i can upload the documents for all to see?

Amalia Hernandez Arias

Comentario

An option is to use http://imageshack.us/

Armando

On Thu, Aug 11, 2011 at 1:50 PM, wrote:

> I have another document that is a interpretation from the Diligencias
> matrimonias of Fray Angelico Chavez. Thats where i got the Villa de Con(il?)
> from, I got the original document that he interpreted it from the Archives
> at Santa Fe, however the testimony of the bride and groom are missing. I
> have a woman at the Archdioces of Santa Fe looking for a complete copy for
> me. Do you know where on here i can upload the documents for all to see?
> Amalia Hernandez Arias

Jerez

Does anyone know if Jerez was considered a Villa?

Comentarios

Comentario

Do you have a Family History Library film reference for this document? This image a real challenge to read!!

Ideally a film number, or location and type of record (is this a marriage record or matrimonial investigation?).

If the film is online, we can get a much better image.

George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA

Comentario

George---

Below is the entry in the IGI for this marriage of Ambrosio Villalpando to Maria Romero-- It was submitted privately and the info in it is wrong. The document does not say he was "originario" of Jerez in Cadiz, it just says "Jeres". The original document must be in the Spanish Archives in New Mexico. His parents were Juan Villalpando and Ana Maria Truxillo [Trujillo].

Ambrosio Villalpando
Pedigree

Male

Family

Event(s):

Birth:

1698
Jerez De La Frontera, Cadiz, Spain

Christening:

Death:

08 APR 1748

Burial:

Marriages:

Spouse:
Maria Romero
Family

Marriage:

16 OCT 1718
Santa Fe, Santa Fe, New Mexico

Messages:

Record submitted after 1991 by a member of the LDS Church. No additional information is available. Ancestral File may list the same family and the submitter.

> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: gpf13@aol.com
> Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2011 17:49:49 -0700
> Subject

Comentario

According to "Xerez, Monografia e Historial - La Fundacion de Jerez", by Ricardo Santoyo Reveles, after the submission of Relaciones Geograficas by the Viceroy Pedro Moya de Contreras to King Phillip II in 1585, the name of "Villa de Xerez" was confirmed by the Real Audencia in Guadalajara. The area was part of Nueva Galicia. Xerez had been occupied since 1531 by Spanish soldiers who were part of the Conquista and was considered a town in 1570. There were also several villages of Zacateco indians there. Now there are dozens of communities and rancherias there, and it is said that half the population has migrated to the US.

I find the article very hard to read in Spanish, but I know that Jerez is also known as Jerez de Garcia Salinas after Francisco Garcia Salinas, a congressman who lived 1786-1841. My father was born there in 1903.

The records that Family Search has for Jerez start with 1648 and include up to 1891.

My husband also has Villalpando in his ancestry. I find

Comentario

Well its all the namechanges that took affect through the years...My oldest Vialpando ancestor was Juan de Villa el Pando, 1600's then his son was Juan de Villalpando after several generations my grandfather born in Abiquiu New Mexico in 1907 was Vialpando. Yes the Vialpandos came after Onate...Also my direct ansestor is Pedro Robledo, he came with the Onate Expedition.

I know the name Villa el Pando originated in Spain I just cant make the paper link from Spain to Mexico. Do you know where I might be able to find records of maybe the recruits from Mexico to New Mexico??
Amalia Hernandez Arias

En respuesta a por 1traviesa

Comentario

The Villalpandos from New Mexico and the Villalpandos from Zacatecas and Jalos were the same family. My oldest Villalpando ancestor that I have traced was Gabriel de Villa el Pando in Zacatecas. The line meanders to Jalos and then to Taos New Mexico before returning to Jalos.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: hernandezmol@msn.com
Sender: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2011 14:59:17
To:
Reply-To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Jerez

Well its all the namechanges that took affect through the years...My oldest Vialpando ancestor was Juan de Villa el Pando, 1600's then his son was Juan de Villalpando after several generations my grandfather born in Abiquiu New Mexico in 1907 was Vialpando. Yes the Vialpandos came after Onate...Also my direct ansestor is Pedro Robledo, he came with the Onate Expedition.

I know the name Villa el Pando originated in Spain I just cant make the paper link

En respuesta a por R.A.Ricci (no verificado)

Comentario

oh really. That is awesome I could never make a link. Do you have a tree that I can take a look at possibly to link my line with yours? I got early as the late 1600's

Amalia Hernandez Arias

Comentario

Amalia,

I looked for a list of the colonizers and soldiers in the Vargas party, but I couldn't find one. The website Geneaology of Mexico has lists of colonizers in the expeditions of Cortez, Guzman, Onate, and others but not of Vargas.

I saw that there is a Villalpando near Leon and Valladolid in Spain. There is also a Villa el Pando in Uruguay.

Maybe someone in this group can find the first Villa del/el Pando/Villalpando who came from Spain to Mexico.

There was a Juan Vialpando who married an Ursula Olaes, and there were many Olaes (amost sounds like my father's name--Olague) in Guanajuato, but there is none on the lists for Spain.

Emilie

> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: hernandezmol@msn.com
> Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2011 14:59:17 -0700
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Jerez
>
> Well its all the namechanges that took affect through the years...My oldest Vialpando ancestor was Juan de Villa el Pando, 1600's then his son was Juan de Villalpando after several

Comentario

https://www.familysearch.org/s/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.familysearc…
 
this is for Jerez but the record 0439844 which is defuncions and baptismos is the earliest records.
good luck
Linda in B.C.

From: "hernandezmol@msn.com"
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Tuesday, August 9, 2011 9:08 AM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Jerez

Does anyone know if Jerez was considered a Villa? I have a document from 1718 that states my ancestor was a native of La Villa de Jerez, however his father it states is a native of La Villa de Conil (which is questionable depending on who is interpreting the acta they seem to think it states Leon).  Most of the people realated to my line think that it is the Jerez in Cadiz Spain. My Vialpando line originated New Mexico with the Vargas expedition, however the records are conflicting if it is Jerez, Nueva Espana or Jerez de la Frontera Spain also if its the Villa de Leon, Zacatecas or Villa de Conil, Spain.  Anyone know

Comentario

Thank you Linda I didnt realize Family Search had records for Jerez...

Amalia Hernandez Arias

OLIVAR Familia de San Juan de Los Lagos or other

Do you have any information on Olivar .....Juan de Dios Olivar or Jose Juan Olivar or Juan Jose Olivar. One was the son another was the father. ALso inflormation on any of those names M.

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Comentario

Hi Ruth,
I am related to the people you mentioned. My great great grandmother was Ursula Olivar. She was born to Juan de Dios Olivar and Maria Cresencia Padilla in San Juan de los Lagos in 1862. Maria was born to Silvestre Padilla and Juana Martin del Campo in San Juan de los Lagos in 1842. Juan de Dios Olivar was born to Miguel Olivar and Margarita Munoz de Nava in San Juan de los Lagos in 1834.

I just took a luck at my family tree files on this site, and they are outdated. Send me your email address and I can email you my most up to date version of that portion of my family tree.

Good luck!
Roberto

Roberto Martinez

Familias Miranda y Llamas de Zacatecas

Hola a todos:

Comentarios

Comentario

Veo que enlazaron con los Sanchez de Porras, Ramirez de Prado y otras familias de interes. Has
tenido exito en estas lineas? Seria interesante conectarlos al tronco.

Daniel Méndez Camino

Comentario

Hola Daniel:

Como comentas se enlazaron con diversas familias conocidas de Jalisco, por los Sánchez de Porras no tengo parentesco y por lo tanto no he estudiado mucho esas ramas. Por parte de los Ramírez de Prado se tengo mucha información, ya que desciendo varias veces de ellos. Por ejemplo, una hija de Onofre de Miranda y de Isabel de Acosta, se llamó Petra Josefa de Miranda y Acosta y se casó con un Ramírez de Prado, José Anastacio Ramírez de Prado y Covarrubias, él era hijo de Martín Antonio Ramírez de Prado y Pérez de Guzmán y de Teresa de Covarrubias y Guzmán.

¿También tienes parentesco con los Ramírez de Prado? Me gustaría saber si tienes información más atrás a Juan Ramírez de Prado casado con Jacinta Pérez de Guzmán, quiénes son los antepasados de todos los que tienen ese apellido en la zona de Tecolotlán y alrededores.

Saludos

founding families of lagos de moreno--anyone know who they are?

Hello-

Comentarios

Comentario

Hi Steph:

I don't have the list of the founding families but I did find some
information about Lagos de Moreno:

Quoting from the book: "Historia de Teocaltiche, Pueblo de La Region
Caxcana, Nueva Galicia" written by Nicolas de Anda Sanchez.

..."Don Hernando de Martel, natural de Sevilla e hijo de Juan Escobar y
Beatriz Gallegos, vecinos de dicha ciudad, y padre de Hernando Gallegos,
siendo Alcalde Mayor y Capitan de su Magestad, del pueblo de Teucaltiche y
su provincia, fundó el 31 de Marzo de 1563 con 73 vecinas de este lugar, la
Villa de Santa Maria de Los Lagos, con licencia de la Real Audiencia antes
que hubiera en ella regimiento y sello. En el momento de la fundacion habia
26 vecinos, casados y solteros. Para 1584, Lagos tenia solo 14 vecinos
casados".

It might not be a bad idea to look in Teocaltiche since the founders came
from there.

Good luck.

John Gonzalez
Wildomar, CA.

----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2009 10:51
Subject:

Comentario

Hello-

I am a little confused about where Teocaltiche was in the 1500's.Is it now present day Mexico City? Trying to find a map of that time period has been difficult. Also could the families have also come directly from Spain and from Teocaltiche..where would I look in the Archives De Seville online for that? Any help or referral would be great.

Thanks as always for all of your time and help.

Comentario

Hi Steph:

Teocaltiche is in North-Eastern Jalisco, North of Jalostotilan and South of
Villa Hidalgo. It has been there way before the Spaniards "founded" it in
1525. It is nowhere near Mexico City.

Are you familiar with GoogleEarth.com? If you are not, I highly recommend
it, you can find almost anyplace in the world by downloading the program.
(it is free!)

John Gonzalez
Wildomar, CA

----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 08:26
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Founding Families of Lagos de Moreno

> Hello-
>
> I am a little confused about where Teocaltiche was in the 1500's.Is it now
> present day Mexico City? Trying to find a map of that time period has been
> difficult. Also could the families have also come directly from Spain and
> from Teocaltiche..where would I look in the Archives De Seville online for
> that? Any help or referral would be great.
>
> Thanks as always for all of your time and help.
>
>

Comentario

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lagos_de_Moreno

Teocaltiche is still en los Alto de Jalisco...hasn't move. It's in the mountains which means altos (or Alps) Highlands it is accessible by bus from Jaladjara. The roads up there are still not freeways. SO if you are driving take a jeep or four wheel drive.

The family is Moreno and Gutierrez...after a few hundred years the some Gutierrez' moved. some to San Miguel el alto or San Miguel Allende. Records (passports search) also Pengamo. Lagos de Moreno means Lake...

Some live in Oakland Cal. some live in Sacramento....I too have my grandmother on that branch of my tree.
Ruth Olivar Millan

Comentario

Teocaltiche is easily accessible by car, although on an older highway. I have been there. Los Altos is on a plateau although at a fairly high altitude of 2,000 meters, therefore called The Highlands. Also, there are no Alps, only mesas.
It is also an Google Maps as almost any locality in the world is.
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Teocaltiche…

Armando

Comentario

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lagos_de_Moreno

It's in the mountains which means altos (or Alps) Highlands it is accessible by bus from Guadalajara. The roads up there are still not freeways. SO if you are driving take a jeep or four wheel drive. We had to go through several streams etc but it was beautiful. It's further up Teocaltiche, Tepatitlan .....

Lagos de Maria is not Lagos de Moreno.
The family is Moreno and Gutierrez...after a few hundred years the same Gutierrez'families moved. some to San Miguel el alto or San Miguel Allende. Records (passports search) also Pengamo. Lagos de Moreno means Lake... many are in the altos area. You have to do your tree to find out. It's work.

Ruth Olivar Millan

De Udave, Eudave Lopez

Hello, I became recently a member. I'm starting a research about the
ascendence of my great-grandfather Ruben Eudave Lopez, born in Sta.

Comentarios

Comentario

Gabriela,
 
I noticed that Villa Hidalgo Jalisco, formerly Paso de Sotos had many Udave's without the E in front of Udave. I do have one file with Udave from Nochistlan Zacatecas, Teofila Udave going back to the mid 1800's.
 
You may want to also look in these two areas.
 
Alicia,
San Jose, Ca

From: Gabriela Rendon
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Monday, August 8, 2011 4:37 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] De Udave, Eudave Lopez

Hello, I became recently a member. I'm starting a research about the ascendence of my great-grandfather Ruben Eudave Lopez, born in Sta. Maria Mecatabasco, Villa del Refugio Zacatecas about 1891.

Ruben Eudave Lopez married Carolina Prieto Gutierrez (b. 1900, Durango). They lived in Juarez Chihuahua and had four children:

Guillermina Eduave Prieto
Guillermo Eudave Prieto
Ruben Eudave Prieto
Carolina Eudave Prieto (my grandmother)

Any information would be appreciated,

Gabriela Perez Rendon
__

Hola, soy nueva en el grupo. Estoy en busqueda de la

Joseph Vidaurre/Petra Medina

What is the date of this record? All I can make out is "en dicho mes y a~no".

Comentarios

Comentario

There is a date in the paragraph in the middle of the page. Since this is the date preceding the paragraph with the "dicho mes y ano" statement, that should be the date.

George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA

Noria de Angeles, Zacatecas

Is there anybody that has relatives from this area in this research group. My line is a marriage between Mariano Esparza and Josefa Sanchez in August of 1875. If anybody has any lines related to this

Comentarios

Comentario

Hello,

I have a great great grandfather from Noria, Eligio D'avila Ab1814. I have very little info on him. I know his parents were Cornelio D'avila and Rosario Araiza.

Sophia

Comentario

I have ancestors with the name Baez in the early 1800's. the earliest i have is Jose Ygnacio Baez married to Josefa Maria de Leon who had three children (so far that I can find) Simon Baez (my great great great grandfather), Maria Noverta de Jesus Baez (1806) and Jose Marcelo Martir Baez (1804)

Peggy Pineda (formerly Delgado)

En respuesta a por scooterpie1968

Comentario

Jose Reynoso - please contact me...regarding Ballesteros name

Mickey

En respuesta a por mmg8938 (no verificado)

Comentario

Has anyone ever heard of a ranch called the Rancho del Populo or Rancho del
Ropula; Rancho del Topulo??? This is in Jalisco...I figure somewhere
close to Guadalajara/Tonala region. Would really appreciate help on this
question.

Mickey

En respuesta a por mmg8938 (no verificado)

Comentario

I went here: http://biblio2.colmex.mx/bibdig/dicc_cubas/base3.htm and
found a Populo in Puebla and a Popul in Jalisco

Nothing for Ropula

Nothing for Topulo

joseph

======================

Joseph Puentes
NoMeat@h2opodcast.com
http://h2opodcast.com/vsse.html (Vegan Environmental Solutions Podcast)
http://h2opodcast.com (Environmental Podcast)
http://h2opodcast.blogspot.com (Blog for above)
http://PleaseListenToYourMom.com (Women's Peace Podcast)
http://NuestraFamiliaUnida.com (Latin American History Podcast)
http://nuestrosranchos.org (Jalisco, Zacatecas, and Aguascalientes
Genealogy)

MMG8938@aol.com wrote:
> Has anyone ever heard of a ranch called the Rancho del Populo or
Rancho del
> Ropula; Rancho del Topulo??? This is in Jalisco...I figure somewhere
> close to Guadalajara/Tonala region. Would really appreciate help on
this
> question.
>
> Mickey

Comentario

Joseph.......I need a little help locating a place called "Villa de
Pastores, San Luis Potosi, Mexico. For some reason I cannot get into
the Cubas dictionnario.......can you help me? This place might be
called just "Pastores" but it is definitely in the state of SLP.........

Thanks!

Josie

On Sep 14, 2010, at 7:00 AM, Joseph Puentes wrote:

> I went here: http://biblio2.colmex.mx/bibdig/dicc_cubas/base3.htm
> and found a Populo in Puebla and a Popul in Jalisco
>
> Nothing for Ropula
>
> Nothing for Topulo
>
> joseph
>

En respuesta a por scooterpie1968

Comentario

Hi Peggy,
I'm doing research on my great grandmother's lineage, last name Bais. I'm unable to confirm the exact spelling of the last name. It may be Baez for all I know. She was an indigenous woman from somewhere in Zacatecas, born around 1868. Her parents were Andres Bais and Antonia de Lira. Unfortunately that's all I know. By chance is your Baez ancestry indigenous?

Roberto Martinez

Tal vez no sepan que existíamos.

Me he puesto a pensar si mis descendientes sabrán que existí.

Me di cuenta de que todo este tiempo he estado rescatando del olvido a
antepasados que murieron hace muchos años, pero que no he he

Comentarios

Comentario

Que piensan de hacerlo en un blog?

Yo algunas veces anteriores he fracasado con el intento de mantener un diario, sobretodo por no saber qué poner allí, o la falta de motivación al no estar seguro de qué lectores serán los que a él lleguen.

Al ser el blog información pública, trato de hacer interesante para el público general lo que en él publico, le mando el enlace a mis amigos cuando creo que la entrada vale la pena, y, aunque no escribo muy seguido: el hecho de saber que tengo que publicar cosas por la posibilidad de mantener cautivo a algún posible seguidor, me motiva a guardar allí mis mejores experiencias. La duda es si existirán el suficiente tiempo para cuando mis descendientes se interesen.

En cuanto a lo que comenta Israel de que le nació la idea ahora que investiga: a mí me sucedió al revés, siempre he tenido la curiosidad de saber cómo vivían y qué pensaban mis ancestros, lo que me hace entonces querer investigar.

Luis Arturo Huerta Rodríguez

Comentario

FELICIDADES! Va usted en la ruta correcta. El sólo acto de registrar por escrito los acontecimientos en que participa, dia a dia, los identifica, los ubica y los hace mas objetivos y por lo tanto más útiles para el trabajo de investigación. Un ejemplo clásico en nuestro querido septentrión novohispano, es el Diario de viaje del Padre Morfi que acompañó al Marqués Teodoro de Croix.

Saludos desde Saltillo.

Miguel Ángel Muñoz

Comentario

Hola Israel:

Al igual que a Jorge, también me llamó la atención el título de tu tema de foro. Quisiera comentarte ya que viene al caso, que tuve la suerte que un tío mío que fue escritor, publicase el diario de mi trastatarabuelo Abraham Agraz Ramírez de Prado,cuando realizó un viaje a la Ciudad de México desde Tecolotlán y de regreso. Pude darme cuenta en él, su nivel tanto cultural y social, por su forma de escribir, los conocimientos que se ve que tiene y las personas con las que se relacionaba. También menciona ahí a la novia que tuvo antes de casarse con mi trastatarabuela. Información que de nunca haber sido escrita jamás hubiera sabido.
Me parece muy bueno lo que propones y creo que deberíamos de animarnos a tomar esa iniciativa.

Saludos
Salvador Agraz

Comentario

Me llamó la atención el título de tu comentario y vine a leerlo. Creo que es una iniciativa bastante buena y útil para la historia familiar, en este caso la historia de tu familia. En varias etapas de mi vida he escrito un diario (no con el formato del de las iglesias) pero por cuestiones personales y de trabajo lo he interrumpido. Ahora mismo no lo escribo y tengo ya muchos años sin hacerlo. Muchas veces he pensado en lo interesante que sería para mí encontrar el diario o las cartas o escritos de algún antepasado, sea tatarabuelo o hermano o hermana de éste de quien fuera. Creo que algún día tu diario será leído por alguno de tus descendientes y de alguna manera se sentirá agradecido y en sintonía con su propia historia que es tu historia en este momento. Gracias por compartir tu iniciativa.

Jorge Elías
Miami, FL

Help deciphering Informacion matrimonial

Hi all:

I was hoping someone could take a look at the informacion matrimonial for my great grandfather's marriage to his first wife. Specifically, there's one word that I can't make out under the "Consentimento" part. I'm hoping someone on this listserve has come across similar language.

The line says: "En el curato de Tlaltenango a los cinco dias del mes de Febrero de mil noveicientos tres ante mi el Presbitero Don Jose de Jesus Robles, Cura de esta parroquia comparecieron Pedro Pinedo y Maria Natividad Godoy madre de la _______________ y ambos dijeron que sus expresados hijos..."

Comentarios

Comentario

Hello!
I have been working on the Lopez family tree from Labatos Zacatecas, so far things seem to be moving smoothly. Another person posted a link which provided a look at the marriage registers. Which is great, but I'm not able to read the names clearly. Have the names been updated to the website/internet so it would be easier to read the names. I actually found who I'm looking for, I just can't read the second name of the family.
thank you
Katherine Aguilar

Comentario

Can you give us the link, maybe we can help you to read it.

On Tue, Aug 2, 2011 at 5:13 PM, wrote:

> Hello! I have been working on the Lopez family tree from Labatos Zacatecas,
> so far things seem to be moving smoothly. Another person posted a link which
> provided a look at the marriage registers. Which is great, but I'm not able
> to read the names clearly. Have the names been updated to the
> website/internet so it would be easier to read the names. I actually found
> who I'm looking for, I just can't read the second name of the family. thank
> you Katherine Aguilar -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
>
> To post, send email to:
> research(at)NuestrosRanchos.**com
>
> To change your subscription, log on to:
> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
>

Comentario

Hola Alice,

De alguna manera la historia de tus antepasados es también la mía propia y la de todos los mexicanos. En la época colonial (hasta antes de 1810) los nativos mexicanos eran considerados legalmente "menores de edad". No sé durante cuánto tiempo duró esta fórmula jurídica para los indios, si se alargó durante todo el periodo colonial o terminó antes, pero aunque así hubiera sido, los españoles continuaban viendo en los indios, si no a seres inferiores, sí a menores de edad o niños a quienes había que educar si era necesario con azotes. La historia colonial es una mezcla de eventos gloriosos y dolorosos. Sé que algunos de mis antepasados del siglo XVII fueron comerciantes de esclavos y cazadores de indios, a quienes consideraban "piezas" (es decir esclavos), ambas acciones fueron reprobadas incluso por el gobierno de aquel tiempo. ¡La historia no tiene vuelta hacia atrás pero sí camino hacia adelante! Y el futuro depende de nosotros no de nuestros abuelos.

Bueno, como "sermón

Comentario

Hola Jorge,
About every other summer when I was growing up, my parents would take us into the interior of Mexico.   Often we would visit a "cuidad colonial" and one year it was Guanajuato, GTO.  Like Dolores Hidalgo, it is a beautiful town, rich in architecture.  It is also where I was serenaded at my hotel by some university students I had seen at the cafe by the plaza.  I have no idea how they found out that we were staying there.  When I think about it, back in those days there weren't many tourists, which made the visit even more pleasurable!  I wish we had known our connection to the state, and visited Dolores Hidalgo.  It's not too late...
Yes, I am descended directly from Jose Maria Santelices, the youngest son.  While I had this information, I just now noticed that Dona Manuela Yrinea Morales Bocanegra was madrina to the first child, and Manuela Morales for the last.  Maria Manuela Morales was the maternal grandmother, I've seen this name on Juan Fermin's matrimonial entry.  Is

Comentario

Hola Alice

Con la cantidad de nombres que usaban nuestros abuelos nos han hecho más complicada la investigación.

A cerca de lo que dices de Manuela Yrinea Morales, me parece que sí se trata de la misma persona, suegra de Juan Fermín, en mi genealogía he encontrado que los abuelos, especialmente la abuela aparece como madrina en varias ocasiones de sus nietos.

Nunca he visto el nombre de Irenea o Irinea usado como apellido, creo que es uno de los nombres de Manuela. La festividad de San Irineo se celebra el 28 de junio, podría ser posible que Manuela haya nacido o sido bautizada un 18 de junio. Pero es solo especulación.

Por cierto, agregué un documento al archivo que tengo formado sobre lo relacionado con Fermín Santelices: Este es el link de los documentos que he colocado allí:
http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/es/node/19736

El documento es la transcripción de algunas actas, que me dices ya tienes, de otros miembros de la familia Santelices, José María y Francisco Santelices

Comentario

Hola Jorge!
HMM...
In the informacion matrimonial of Francisco Santelices and Maria Valderrama, it states that he is thirty-two years old.  I have what I believed to be his baptismal record: 
https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.family…;
 and it states that he was baptized 02/08/1842.  That would make him forty years old.  Also, talk about MUCHOS nombres!! I can't even make out his complete name:  Jose Maria de Jesus Francisco de Paula, ???.  That ??? name I don't understand.  His maternal grandmother Juana Maria Lizundia was madrina.  Please let me know what you think about all of this.  Thanks so much for all you've done and I look forward to hearing from you.  
Sincerely,   Alice Blake
--- On Sat, 8/6/11, eliasjorge4@gmail.com wrote:

From: eliasjorge4@gmail.com
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Muchos Nombres
To: research@lists

Comentario

about Muchos nombres how about this one

Melchor Gaspar Baltazar Rafael, guess the day he was born!

2011/8/6 Alice Blake

> Hola Jorge!
> HMM...
> In the informacion matrimonial of Francisco Santelices and Maria
> Valderrama, it states that he is thirty-two years old. I have what
> I believed to be his baptismal record:
>
> https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.family…
>
> and it states that he was baptized 02/08/1842. That would make him forty
> years old. Also, talk about MUCHOS nombres!! I can't even make out his
> complete name: Jose Maria de Jesus Francisco de Paula, ???. That ??? name
> I don't understand. His maternal grandmother Juana Maria Lizundia was
> madrina. Please let me know what you think about all of this. Thanks so
> much for all you've done and I look forward to hearing from you.
> Sincerely, Alice Blake
> --- On Sat, 8/6/11, eliasjorge4

Comentario

Hola Alice,

El nombre que falta es Romualdo. La festividad de San Romualdo es el 19 de junio. Osea que no tiene nada que ver con su fecha de nacimiento ni de bautizo en febrero. ¿Por qué y cómo escogerían los nombres nuestros antepasados? Algunas veces por el día del santo en que nacen y otras, la verdad más sincera sería decir Nadie lo puede saber y ya ellos no están para decírnoslo. Te incluyo la transcripción del acta de Jose María Francisco completa anexa aquí:

http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/es/filemanager/active?fid=3911

Respecto a si el acta de bautizo de José María de Jesús Francisco... es la que corresponde al mismo Francisco que se casa en 1882 y dice que tiene 32 años en vez de 40 mi opinión es que quizá sí sea su acta de bautismo y por algún motivo no fue muy preciso en decir su edad, aunque 8 años son muchos y puede ser también posible que se trate del acta de un hermano con el nombre de Francisco también. Pero hay algo que me hace pensar que sí sea su acta de bautizo

Comentario

Algunos datos de Fermín Santelices del AGN

Hola Alice, fui a dar un vistazo al Archivo General de la Nación por si encontraba algunos datos que te pudieran ayudar a seguir profundizando en la persona de Fermin Santelices. Existen varios documentos enlistados pero no es posible ver el mismo documento en sí. Se trata sólo de las listas de los documentos que hacen referencia a él con su nombre Juan de Santelices (no lo llaman Fermín, pero se trata del mismo pues es el subdelegado del pueblo de Dolores Hidalgo en esas fechas) o hacen referencia a él solo diciendo el subdelegado. De los títulos e información on line se puede percibir que Fermín Santelices cumplió su período completo como Subdelegado por 5 años que finalizaron en 1796, lo sucedió en el cargo José Ramón Montemayor. También es posible ver que además de subdelegado era Juez y Justicia Mayor de la Congregación (No sé decirte si todos los subdelegados llevaban esos títulos o solo algunos). Juan Fermín, al terminar su cargo pide

Comentario

Hola Jorge,
Thank you again.  What a difference it makes when you know what you're looking for!  I went to AGN, Gobierno Virreinal, Subdelegados, and searched all 22 contenedores, all 60 volumes, and every expediente within each volume, and found nothing on Fermin Santelices.  I didn't know to look for anything other than his name, and never came across it.  Therefore, I must have passed up information relating to him and didn't know it.  Again, you are a Godsend! 
The strangest thing happened yesterday.  I was contacted by email by someone who saw my posts on Santelices, knew grandmother Agustina Santelices had married Luis Onate, and may be a lost Onate cousin.  
You never know what to expect in genealogy.  My heartfelt thanks.
Sincerely,  
Alice Blake  

--- On Sun, 7/31/11, eliasjorge4@gmail.com wrote:

From: eliasjorge4@gmail.com
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Algunos datos de Fermín Santelices del AGN
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Sunday, July 31, 2011, 4:47 AM

Comentario

Hola Alice,

La verdad es que cada tema del grupo tiene su interés y una cosa lleva a la otra.

Siguiendo con el tema de tu ancestro Jaun de Santelices te comparto dos detalles que he encontrado. EL primero, es que en el libro de Pedro Gonzalez, apuntes para la Historia de Dolores Hidalgo, se menciona a un Juan de Santelices en 1790 es Justicia Mayor y Subdelegado de San Miguel el Grande, Guanajuato. Y éste tiene el encargo de separar la Congregación de Nuestra Señora de los Dolores de la Villa de San Miguel el Grande . Esta es la cita completa:

Las autoridades de San Miguel el Grande ejercieron la jurisdiccion civil y criminal desde 1643, en que se declaró Congregacion, hasta 31 de Diciembre de 1790,Don Juan de Santelices, Justicia Mayor y Subdelegado de San Miguel, cumpliendo con un oficio fecha 15 de Diciembre, que le dirigió el Intendente de Guanajuato Don Andrés Amat de Tortosa, separó la Congregación de Nuestra Señora de los Dolores de la villa de San Miguel el Grande, haciendo

Comentario

Hola Jorge,
What a beautiful house!  And what a tremendous job of restoration.  I'd love to visit it some day.  I'm not sure that it's just my experience, but it seems that a great deal of Basque settled in Mexico. When I saw the sea shell motif carving on the building, I recalled that in Spain the sea shell is the symbol for Santiago de Compestela--very important in northern Spain or el Pais Vasco. 
I'm not happy about the azotes and try to console myself that the Santelices had a change of heart and later supported  the independence of Mexico.   Again, thank you so much for the great information and photos.  My sisters loved them, too!
Sincerely,  Alice Blake    
  

--- On Mon, 8/1/11, eliasjorge4@gmail.com wrote:

From: eliasjorge4@gmail.com
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] La Casa del Subdelegado o Casa de las Visitas
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Monday, August 1, 2011, 11:52 PM

Hola Alice,

La verdad es que cada tema del grupo tiene su interés y una cosa lleva a

Comentario

Acabo de leer de nuevo la información Matrimonial de Fernín y allí se ordena literalmente al cura beneficiado de la Congregación de los Dolores que "efectuado el matrimonio, asentará la partida en los libros de aquella administración para que conste. Es un detalle que no yo había observado, En un principio pensé que se había casado allí. Los párrocos generalmente era muy observantes de las órdenes de sus superiores, especialmente si se trataba de personajes destacados de la comunidad. Creo que el acta en la Parroquia de Los Dolores está asentada como copia de la de Querétaro. ¿Dónde estará el Libro que indica familysearch? En fin, ya aparecerá.

Sobre la designación como subdelegado en el caso de Fermín, no sabría decir si fue un nombramiento desde España, es posible. En aquella época la Nueva España era considerada territorio español y su máxima autoridad era el Rey pero por razones de administración, tiempo y dificultad en una inmensa extensión como eran los territorios coloniales el

Comentario

Estimado Elías,

En muchos casos se ordenaba una copia de la partida enviarse a ambas parroquias o sea que si debe existir copia en la de Santiago de Querétaro y copia en la Dolores Hidalgo.

Con las reformas Borbónicas llegó muchísimos cambio en el gobierno un notable eran las intendencias y subdelgaciones. Generalmente, el subdelegado como el alcalde mayor era de la aristocracia española de la clase de hijosdalgo.

Unos ejemplos ya mencionado mi antepasado el capitán de corazas y teniente Joseph de Camino y Trasgallo, subdelegado de Sierra de Pinos y Cosme Damián Flores Alatorre, subdelegado de Aguascalientes. Otras familias como los Díaz de León, Pérez de Terán, Pérez Maldonado etc.

Te puedo recomendar varios libros y estudios sobre las subdelegaciones si gustas.

Daniel

Comentario

Es muy valioso constatar los datos en cualquier investigación e ir formando una narración congruente de los hechos, en nuestro caso de la historia familiar, por eso creo que cualquier dato, como los que mencionas (los duplicados de las actas que aparecen también en otros casos, y de cómo la reformas borbónicas influyeron en el comportamiento y desarrollo social)son datos a tomar en cuenta cuando se elabora la historia familiar personal. Muchas gracias por participar y mencionar los casos y detalles de tu investigación. Y sí, agradezco cualquier recomendación de libros sobre el tema de las intendencias o cualquier tema relacionado que puedes sugerirme aquí o en mi dirección de correos personal eliasjorge@gmail.com

Gracias,

Jorge Elias
Miami, FL

Comentario

Chris,

I sent you a reply via Ranchos but now I am trying to send it via Nuestros Ranchos to see if I have this right. Most likely the word is "pretensa" meaning the one who is seeking to be married. "pretenso would be the word used for a male suitor seeking to be married.

Gracias........Alicia Avelar Olmos de Carrillo

Comentario

Dear Group Members,
I actually found my 6grandparents informacion matrimonial, and it doesn't follow the same entry format of those before or after!!  I knew Juan Fermin Santelices was from Spain, so I wonder if that's the issue.  I would truly appreciate it if I could impose upon someone more literate in Spanish to please help me with the translation.  The entry is not long, or stained, or difficult to read, my Spanish literacy is the issue and after getting this far in my search, I don't want to misunderstand what is being said.  
It's found under Queretero Church Records, Queretero, Santiago parroquia, Informacion Matrimonal 1793,  image 241-43.  On top of everything else, I've never made a link, before, so I hope this is correct.  If not, the above information is.  https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.family…
My many thanks in advance for your help.   Alice Blake 

Comentario

Juan Fermin Santelices from the city of Santander (i think) in the Kindom of
Castilla (that means Spain), single, legitimate son of
Tomas Santelices y Antonia Ibañez
with
Doña Maria Luisa Sepulveda from San Juan del Rio, maiden, daughter of
Gregorio Sepulveda y Maria Elena Morales

I hope it helps...

On Wed, Jul 27, 2011 at 9:42 AM, Alice Blake wrote:

> Dear Group Members,
> I actually found my 6grandparents informacion matrimonial, and it doesn't
> follow the same entry format of those before or after!! I knew Juan Fermin
> Santelices was from Spain, so I wonder if that's the issue. I would truly
> appreciate it if I could impose upon someone more literate in Spanish to
> please help me with the translation. The entry is not long, or stained,
> or difficult to read, my Spanish literacy is the issue and after getting
> this far in my search, I don't want to misunderstand what is being said.
> It's found under Queretero Church Records, Queretero, Santiago parroquia,
> Informacion

Comentario

Greetings,
Thanks for the info.  I failed to mention that I got the gist of it, the principal characters, and yes he was from Santander, Spain.  I don't understand the other info contained..about Dr Dn Alonso Nunez de Haro y Peralta? Caballero Gran Cruz Prelado de la Real Orden Espanoles de Carlos Tercero.  Who is he and what is that about?  Or Calidad Ultramaximo?  Why are  25 pesos mentioned?  Is Santelices in a hurry to marry and asking to overlook witnesses or asking for special favors?  This is just so different from the other informacion matrimonial I've read, that I'd love to understand everything they're mentioning. I believe the link works for anyone else who could please help me understand the details.      Thanks again,  Alice Blake
>
> https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.family…
>

Comentario

He was running away so he ask for a "dispensa" for all the other paperwork
they need to get married, the dispensa was signed by the archbishop Alonso
Nuñez Haro de Peralta the rest is his title,

On Wed, Jul 27, 2011 at 1:26 PM, Alice Blake wrote:

> Greetings,
> Thanks for the info. I failed to mention that I got the gist of it, the
> principal characters, and yes he was from Santander, Spain. I don't
> understand the other info contained..about Dr Dn Alonso Nunez de Haro y
> Peralta? Caballero Gran Cruz Prelado de la Real Orden Espanoles de Carlos
> Tercero. Who is he and what is that about? Or Calidad Ultramaximo? Why
> are 25 pesos mentioned? Is Santelices in a hurry to marry and asking to
> overlook witnesses or asking for special favors? This is just so different
> from the other informacion matrimonial I've read, that I'd love to
> understand everything they're mentioning. I believe the link works for
> anyone else who could please help me understand the details.

Comentario

La *Real y Distinguida Orden Española de Carlos III* fue establecida por el Rey
de España Carlos
III,
mediante Real Cédula de 19
de septiembre de
1771 con
el lema latino «*Virtuti et merito*»,
con la finalidad de condecorar a aquellas personas que se hubiesen destacado
especialmente por sus buenas acciones en beneficio de España y la Corona.
Desde su creación, es la más distinguida condecoración civil que puede ser
otorgada en España. Aunque se encuentra dentro de la categoría de las Órdenes
Militares desde su creación,
formalmente se convirtió en orden civil en
1847
.

Tanto la Orden como las condecoraciones que se otorgan están reguladas en
un Real Decreto de
2002
,1 donde se
fija como objetivo «*recompensar a los ciudadanos que con sus esfuerzos,
iniciativas y trabajos hayan prestado servicios eminentes y extraordinarios
a la Nación*» y por una Orden de 8 de
mayo
de 2000 .

http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orden_de_Carlos_III

Saludos.

Israel Valles

2011/7/27 Alice Blake

Comentario

Muchas Gracias Israel,
This is a very different informacion matrimonial and I invite you and any group member to access the link to familysearch and interpret what the details are.  I would love to know why the hurry to get married. 
I read the links you offered and they tell me about the Caballero Gran Cruz and that not every archbishop had the honor.  This archbishop must have done something extraordinary for Espana.  I think the entry indicates that he was the archbishop of the Santa Iglesia Metropolitana de Mexico?  Does that mean Mexico City or all of Mexico?  So many questions and so much to learn, but I find it fascinating.  All help--in Spanish or English is greatly appreciated.   Thank you again,  Alice Blake

2011/7/27 Alice Blake

> Greetings,
> Thanks for the info.  I failed to mention that I got the gist of it, the
> principal characters, and yes he was from Santander, Spain.  I don't
> understand the other info contained..about Dr Dn Alonso Nunez de Haro y
> Peralta

Comentario

Alice,

Un arzobispo tiene, en la iglesia católica, tiene las mismas facultades y el
mismo grado que un obispo, pero limitado a una región más importante que
una diócesis normal, que se le denomina Arquidiócesis. Al menos en México,
una arquidiocesis esta dividida en porciones territoriales mas chicas
denominadas Vicarías, que estan bajo el cuidado de un Vicario. El actual
Arzobispo de la Arquidiocesis Primada de México (que ocupa solo el
una porción del estado de México, y no todo el pais, como preguntas en tu
anterior correo) es el Excelentisimo Sr. Cardenal Norverto Rivera Carrera.

A continuación voy a dar lectura al documento que nos compartes para ver si
puedo ayudarte con algo.

Muchos saludos y si tienes cualquier duda sobre la
Iglesia Católica, pregúntame que con gusto podré ayudarte.

Saludos

Israel Valles
Durango, MX

2011/7/27 Alice Blake

> Muchas Gracias Israel,
> This is a very different informacion matrimonial and I invite you and any
> group member to access the

Comentario

Muchisimas Gracias Israel,
This tells me that he was the archbishop of the state of Mexico and not the entire country.   Thank you so much for your help.   Alice Blake

--- On Thu, 7/28/11, Diego Israel Valles Lopez wrote:

From: Diego Israel Valles Lopez
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Caballero Gran Cruz
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Thursday, July 28, 2011, 2:38 PM

Alice,

Un arzobispo tiene, en la iglesia católica, tiene las mismas facultades y el
mismo grado que un obispo, pero limitado a una región más importante que
una diócesis normal, que se le denomina Arquidiócesis. Al menos en México,
una arquidiocesis esta dividida en porciones territoriales mas chicas
denominadas Vicarías, que estan bajo el cuidado de un Vicario. El actual
Arzobispo de la Arquidiocesis Primada de México (que ocupa solo el
una porción del estado de México, y no todo el pais, como preguntas en tu
anterior correo) es el Excelentisimo Sr. Cardenal Norverto Rivera Carrera.

A continuación voy a

Comentario

Alice, estoy para servirte. Sigo en revisión de tu documento.

Valles

El 28 de julio de 2011 10:32, Alice Blake escribió:

> Muchisimas Gracias Israel,
> This tells me that he was the archbishop of the state of Mexico and not the
> entire country. Thank you so much for your help. Alice Blake
>
>
> --- On Thu, 7/28/11, Diego Israel Valles Lopez
> diego.valleslopez@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> From: Diego Israel Valles Lopez
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Caballero Gran Cruz
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Thursday, July 28, 2011, 2:38 PM
>
>
> Alice,
>
> Un arzobispo tiene, en la iglesia católica, tiene las mismas facultades y
> el
> mismo grado que un obispo, pero limitado a una región más importante que
> una diócesis normal, que se le denomina Arquidiócesis. Al menos en México,
> una arquidiocesis esta dividida en porciones territoriales mas chicas
> denominadas Vicarías, que estan bajo el cuidado de un Vicario. El actual
> Arzobispo de la Arquidiocesis Primada de

Comentario

Hola Alice

Te escribo en español ya que me es más fácil así. De otra manera tardaría más tiempo en responder.

Muy interesante el documento que te lo transcribí integro y te lo anexo al final, espero puedas abrirlo. Si tienes problemas abriéndolo me dejas saber y te lo envío en otro formato.

Por lo que veo, Fermín Santelices fue subdelegado de la Subdelegación de Dolores, hoy Dolores Hidalgo y vivió en una casa destinada a alojar a los subdelegados en la Plaza Principal Num. 25 http://www.doloreshidalgo.gob.mx/dolo/index.php?option=com_content&view…

Entiendo por el documento, que Fermín era de Santander y por eso debió pedir dispensas matrimoniales. Un adulto relativamente recién llegado de España no tenía generalmente a sus padres en México y en esa época se hacía necesario el consentimiento de los padres para contraer matrimonio especialmente si el contrayente era de una familia Noble o bien acomodada (aunque no tuviese títulos honoríficos)

Comentario

Hola Jorge,
I have very little trouble reading modern Spanish.  So don't worry I appreciate your response in either language. 
How very kind of you to help with this unusual informacion matrimonial and how very interesting!  A question:
What was the job of a subdelegado a la Congregacion de Nuestra Senora de los Dolores?  Was it a government position?  It's incredible that you actually found his address listed on a Dolores Hidalgo municipal webpage! 
It's ironic because I found Fermin's parents' address in a 1766 padron of Santander.  His parents Don Tomas Santelices and Dona Ma Antonia Ibanez were the only occupants listed in one of four houses owned by the Santelices.  While other Santelices occupied the other houses,  Fermin was not listed as living in any one. 
They were married in Santiago church in Queretero, Queretero, and I've got the link for you to see the matrimonial entry:
https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.family…

Comentario

Estimado Elías y Alice,

Me interesa muchisimo este tema ya que lo mismo sucede en mi familia materna. El capitán Joseph de Camino y Trasgallo era cántabro, natural del lugar de Laredo. Dicho era subdelegado de Sierra de Pinos y también tuvo su dispensa de ultramarino. Humildamente admito que parteneció a la aristocracia española de un origen muy antiguo; la casa de Camino es unos de los más antiguos en la montaña. El dicho casó Gertrudis Fernández de Villalpando y Méndez Hidalgo. Su hermano, José María Fernández de Villalpando estuvo en el comercio con el marqués del Apartado.

Muchísimos cántabros eran comerciantes, sería probable que Juan Fermín Santelices también formaba parte del comercio entre Querétaro tal como su padre. Otra cosa que he notado que recién llegado de la montaña a México casaban sus hijas a otros penínsulares. D. Juan Nepomuceno Fermín de Santelices e Ibáñez, subdelegado de Dolores, era hijo de D. Tomás de Santelices y Da Antonia Ibáñez naturales de Santander

Comentario

Verdad que el tema es bastante interesante y al encontrar cada antepasado como que uno recibe un premio, al menos yo así lo siento. No he encontrado aristócratas en mi árbol genealógico cercano pero sí muy atrás. Si mis investigaciones no están erradas, de alguna manera la familia de mi madre desciende de Alberto del Canto y Juana Porcallo, fundadores de Saltillo y Monterrey, pero me siento orgulloso también de mis tatarabuelos agricultores de Montemorerlos. Creo que hay una terapia en esto de buscar a los antepasados. En Fin... Sigamos con el tema de Santelices.

Alice, la organización política de la Nueva España seguía, como es natural, la estructura de organización española de Reinos, provincias, ciudades, pueblos, etc. Era bastante intrincada, creo yo. En la Nueva España, fue necesario organizar a la sociedad multicultural que se generó con la conquista española y así fue como surgieron las encomiendas, pueblos de indios, corregimientos y, más tarde, las Congregaciones. No sé los

Comentario

Hola Jorge!
It's so good to hear from you.  Again, you have given me invaluable information to follow up.  Your explanation of subdelegado is very clear and much more political than I had imagined.  Was an appointment directly from Spain, and does that mean he was also involved in politics in Spain?  I shouldn't be surprised because Jose Maria Santelices was very involved as secretario del Colegio de Abogados in the independence of Mexico since 1810. 
Sorry, I can't find the matrimonial entry from Dolores Hidalgo, but I will continue searching.   I will also search the Archivo General de la Nacion de Mexico for Fermin's work in Dolores Hidalgo.  Thank you again for all your insight and I'll let you know if I find something. 
Sincerely,  
Alice Blake 
 

--- On Sat, 7/30/11, eliasjorge4@gmail.com wrote:

From: eliasjorge4@gmail.com
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Hola Alice, Hola Daniel Algo sobre las Congregaciones y subdeleg
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Saturday

Comentario

Greetings Daniel,
What exactly is a subdelegado de Dolores and a mayorazgo?  While Santelices is not and never has been a common name, as far as I can tell they have been in Mexico from the mid-18th century and even earlier in other parts of the new world.  What I'd like to know is how to research Juan Fermin Santelices' birth/baptismal information in Spain.  I've searched PARES and familysearch, to no avail.  My Santelices line is only one of others (Rubio, Arrambide, de Almandos, and others)I've traced directly to Spain, but the search ends there.  If you know how to search other Spanish resources online, that information would be greatly appreciated.  Let me know.  Thanks so much,  Alice Blake   

--- On Fri, 7/29/11, Daniel Méndez de Torres y Camino wrote:

From: Daniel Méndez de Torres y Camino
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Informacion Matrimonial de Fermin Santelices y Maria Luisa Sepúl
To: "Nuestros Ranchos"
Date: Friday, July 29, 2011, 6:10 AM

Estimado Elías y Alice