Here is a link to the record of death for Ana Gabay, wife of Lope Ruiz de Esparza.
hey have a look http://bit.ly/XnHJcA
John
T.A. Romero
Hello,
I have never seen an email message from J. Inclan like this before and am wondering if it is Spam. The heading is not like something he would send out nor the empty message with just a link.
Hello fellow members.
for anyone interested in helping the owner of guadalajara dispensations out with indexing. here's a list of collections from the Diócesis de Guadalajara (from the years 1600-1766, if I include years after 1766 in this post, this list will be too long) that haven't been indexed yet. this doesn't include collections i'm currently working on indexing. if i'm missing any collections here, please tell me
Matrimonios 1638-1699
Matrimonios 1690-1709
Matrimonios 1699-1707
Matrimonios 1720-1723
Matrimonios 1723-1724
Matrimonios 1724-1725
Matrimonios 1725-1726
Matrimonios 1727-1729
Matrimonios 1728
Matrimonios 1729
Matrimonios 1729-1731
Matrimonios 1729-1733
Matrimonios 1730
Matrimonios 1731-1732
Matrimonios 1758 (barely started on this one, so i'll leave it here for the time being)
Matrimonios 1760-1766
Matrimonios 1762-1764
Matrimonios 1764-1765
Just so you know, Katie, I'm working on some of these already. In order for people not to repeat the same film, they should contact Claudia Casillas so they can request an assignment.
For everyone in the group-- I encourage you to help with this great project-- I have realized that I get lots of personal satisfaction knowing I am helping others with their genealogy. I am indexing and arbitrating for the NR group for Familysearch and am working on the Dispensas. The great thing about this is I have found records useful to me in my genealogy, too.
I am very busy with work and life, so in the busy times I reduce my contributions, but when I have some free time, I do what I can to add to the genealogical knowledge of Mexico.
Rosalinda
*Special Note: If anybody is interested in participating in the indexing
project (volunteering to index), please contact me at guadalajaradispensas
AT gmail DOT com - Please know that we have many films in progress, so
before you begin any work, please check our updates and progress at
http://www.guadalajaradispensas.com/p/news-coming-soon.html
On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 5:54 PM, wrote:
> Just so you know, Katie, I'm working on some of these already. In order
> for people not to repeat the same film, they should contact Claudia
> Casillas so they can request an assignment.
>
> For everyone in the group-- I encourage you to help with this great
> project-- I have realized that I get lots of personal satisfaction knowing
> I am helping others with their genealogy. I am indexing and arbitrating for
> the NR group for Familysearch and am working on the Dispensas. The great
> thing about this is I have found records useful to me in my genealogy, too.
>
> I am very busy with work and life
oh ok, too bad i can't edit that list but just curious, which ones are you working on?
I'm working on 1723-1724 and 1724-1725.
Hola Claudia:
Estoy sumamente agradecido de que tengas la molestia de subir estos índices para todos nosotros. Ayer estuve checando y encontré dos dispensas que me ayudaron mucho, la de Justo Julián Barbosa y la de Gregorio Barbosa, con las que pude avanzar dos generaciones más en mi línea de Ruelas.
¿Cada cuánto tiempo estás actualizando los índices? Si sabes algo de la dispensa del matrimonio entre Antonio Vergara Espinoza y Lauriana Lepe Espinoza, casados el 9 de Junio de 1757 en Cocula te lo agradecería mucho.
Saludos.
Salvador, I've not touched the 1757 dispensas yet. My plan is to post at least 2-3 lists per week.
You must check the blog regularly or subscribe to it via RSS.
Claudia
www.guadalajaradispensas.com
www.sagradamitra.com
Salvador, aun no he tocado las dispensas del año 1757. Mi intencion es postear por lo menos 2-3 archivos cada semana.
Tienes que checar el blog, o subscribete por RSS.
De Nuevo Gracias Claudia,
Ya me inscribí a tu blog como seguidor. Estaré al siempre al tanto. Creo que es un gesto muy loable de tu parte poner a la disposición de los demás tu trabajo que no es fácil, al contrario es un trabajo laborioso y muchas veces agotador leer y "descifrar" la escritura antigua, borrosa, extraña y confusa. Gracias de verdad.
Jorge Elias
Miami, FL
Muchas gracias Claudia por compartir con nosotros tan arduo trabajo, pocas personas como tu comparten su tiempo y trabajo con los demás sin problemas. Te deseo éxito en todo lo que te propongas en esta vida y Dios recompense tanta generosidad.
Saludos y abrazos.
L.C.P. Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.
Tepatitlán de Morelos, Jalisco, México.
Mil gracias por compartir tu trabajo!!!!
2011/9/8 Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez
>
> Muchas gracias Claudia por compartir con nosotros tan arduo trabajo, pocas
> personas como tu comparten su tiempo y trabajo con los demás sin problemas.
> Te deseo éxito en todo lo que te propongas en esta vida y Dios recompense
> tanta generosidad.
>
> Saludos y abrazos.
>
> L.C.P. Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.
> Tepatitlán de Morelos, Jalisco, México.
Muchas Gracias Claudia por ese trabajo. No es nada fácil buscar en los libros como están, con ese indice será mucho mejor.
Tengo una pregunta. Hay algo que deje saber dónde se encuentran las dispensas de Nuevo León en Guadalajara o se encuentran todas mezcladas junto con las de Jalisco, etc.
Estoy buscando desde hace tiempo la dispensa matrimonial de Juan Francisco Chávez Treviño y María Cecilia Caballero que se casaron en el Guajuco el 21 de abril de 1799 pero debieron pedir dispensas de consanguinidad y tenía la esperanza de encontrarla en Guadalajara. Te agradezco cualquier dato sobre ese tema. Y gracias de Nuevo por tu trabajo. Ya fui al blog, resulta muy práctico. Buena suerte.
Jorge Elias
Miami, FL
Hola Sr. Elías, las dispensas de matrimonio están revueltas tanto las de Nuevo León y ciudades cercanas junto con las de todos los municipios de Jalisco, es un verdadero descontrol. He batallado un poco por lo mismo de que son tantas hojas y tantos libros que es un poco cansado estar buscando. Pero nimodo, es nuestra pasión la genealogía.
Asi es, como dice el Señor Ramirez, la Sagrada Mitra de Guadalajara contiene muchas dispensas matrimoniales iniciadas en Nuevo Leon. He visto varias de Guajuco (Huajuco).
Busca en el blog de guadalajaradispensas.com
Saludos,
Claudia
www.guadalajaradispensas.com
www.sagradamitra.com
Jorge, I've not yet completed the extracyion of the year 1799 guadalajara dispensas. I will post a note here when I have uploaded.
Jorge, Aun no termino el rollo de dispensas en la sagrada mitra de 1799. Cuando las suba al blog les avisare aqui.
Saludos,
Claudia
www.guadalajaradispensas.com
www.sagradamitra.com
Claudia,
Thank you so much for these dispensations. It is people like yourself, with no thought of monetary gain, that will help group members, especially since the indexes in Family Search have gone missing, etc.
Emilie
Port Orchard, WA
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: claudiacasillas@gmail.com
> Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2011 21:14:07 -0700
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Guadalajara Marriage Dispensations / Dispensas Matrimoniales en Guadalajara
>
> Hello fellow members. Due to a system crash, I had the misfortune of losing about a dozen lists of extracted names of Guadalajara Dispensas similar to what I posted here: http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/es/node/19680
>
> After getting over the shock and loss, this weekend I decided to start keeping my notes online via a blog. I think it will be useful to most researchers because the blog also has a custom search bar to make it easier for you to search names or pueblos. I am happy to share with you all here:
>
> www
Hello
I've been going through some really old records, and I think I see the name Sotelo and the place name Tarinbaro on the first two lines of this image:
Hi Denise,
Great job finding that second Tarinbaro in the document (and the second mention of Fernando de Sotelo). I didn't believe such a place existed, but according to Google maps and Wikipedia there are indeed a town and municipality named Tarímbaro just north of Morelia, Michoacán. I can't read either the words after Tarinbaro, it may be an amount, it may be the name of another place, and then "pessos digo que sobre lo que le traspasse Juan Gutierrez de Bocanegra le rresto deviendo cien pessos (le resto debiendo 100 pesos; after what I transferred to JGB, I still owe him 100 pesos)"
I also noticed that many paragraphs start with the words "Y ten declaro", which should be an abbreviation for "Y también declaro".
Mr. Inclán's genealogical charts are a great template, I also used them when making my tree, but it is better to try to find the original sources of each claimed connection, just to make sure.
The Ecatepec that Bocanegra bought is in the State of Morelos. They mention
Thanks again for your help! I decided I will write Dr. Chipman and forward him the information, as he has an academic research interest in the Sotelo-Moctezuma family.
For myself this document is helping me learn to read colonial Spanish, which I need to be able to do if I am going to be able to go further with my family tree.Plus its fun finding names in old documents like this which are also listed in books like Encomenderos of New Spain, the people sort of come alive again.
Your explanation of Y ten solves a big mystery for me - muchas gracias!
I hope to be able to find an original source for the Villasenor link to Sotelo, that may take a week or a couple of months...
Regards
Denise
Hi Denise,
I think you are right regarding the T and the S and the rest of the words you identified. Still that word or set of words that looks like Tarimbaro is difficult to read. The part that you couldn't read between de and nueva españa is sta. It reads: desta (de esta) nueva españa.
Regards,
Victoriano Navarro
Hi Victoriano
Thanks for your feedback. I have started an informal "dictionary" of the letters, words and phrases I have recognized, plus the ones you helped me with. I have found three other interesting bits of information:
-The name don fernando sutelo de villasenor shows up in line 2 on image 490.
-Tarinbaro is mentioned again: image 488 line 11 "Declaro que yo compre al secretario baragona (?) la estancia de Tarimbaro" followed by a series of words I cant read, then the name Juan Gutierrez de Bocanegra.
According to a genealogy on the internet made by John Inclan, Fernando Sotelo de Moctezuma married to Maria de Villasenor. But he did not provide his source...I checked Donald Chipmans book,Moctezumas Children, and wife of Fernando is not named.
Donald Chipman did mention that a person named Fernando Bocanegra bought Ecatepec (from Diego Arias de Sotelos sons) in 1619.
-Juan Rodrigues de Corona is also mentioned, worth noting because Maria de Villasenors mothers name was
Hi Denise,
This is what I read (current Spanish in parenthesis):
Line 1: Sotelo y otros munchos (muchos) que se
Line 2: hallaron a ello estar .n.aro yo hize (hice) la escritura
Line 3: porque Sancho Lopes me escrivio (escribió) la hizieze (hiciese)
Line 4: y que no se acavava (acababa) con la cuenta de pascuaro (Pátzcuaro) todo
Line 5: lo de mequacan (Michoacán)
Escritura is a document that states that you own a property, a deed. I think he is saying that he wrote a deed because Sancho López wrote to him asking to do it, and many persons served as witnesses.
Regards,
Victoriano Navarro
This is really hard to read, but I think the 4th and 5th lines may say:
"y que no se acavava con la quenta de pasquaro todo lo de mequacan".
In current Spanish:
"y que no se acababa con la cuenta de Pátzcuaro todo lo de Michoacán".
In english:
"and that it did not end with Patzcuaro's count/account all about Michoacán"
...whatever that means.
For the word pasquaro I figured out the letter S by comparison with the one on the worlds arzobispado and Francisco in the next to last paragraph of the first page on image 487 where it says: "en el arzobispado de Toledo hijo ligitimo de Francisco Gutierrez".
As for the letter P, I compared it to the ones in the worlds espiritu and personas in the second paragraph of that same page, where it says: "santissima trinidad padre hijo y espiritu santo tres perssonas y un solo Dios verdadero" (Holy Trinity, the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, three persons and a single true God).
Regarding the words Sotelo and Tarinbaro, It would be great if you
Hello Victoriano
Thank you very much for your feedback! I will do as you suggest and look for the letter S, and take a second look at what I think is Tarimbaro. Will post back after that...
Regards
Denise
Hello Victoriano
I think I found an "S" on the seventh line from the bottom on the left page of image 487 of the same set of images as the original link above. It looks like the words are "su legitima mujer" (precededed by a name) and in the line above looks like "hijo legitimo de" (preceded by a name and followed by a name). These names are in fact right before the reference to Conde de Coruna (the man named here was apparently majordomo for the "excelente visorey de ((?)) nueva espana el Conde de Coruna")
Still looking at Tarimbaro...
Regards
Denise
Hello Victoriano
Regarding the letter "T" for Tarinbaro, on image 491, last line on left hand page, I think I found the phrase "Todos ellos" with a T like the one on Tarimbaro, with word Todos again in the line above it.
I will also look at the other letters in what I think is Tarinbaro.
Regards
Denise
I took a second look at the previous page, and I think the last 1½ lines on the previous page say, "los testigos son Juan de Allala, Francisco (something or other) y don Frdo (Fernando?)". There was a Fernando Sotelo de Moctezuma, the son of Diego Arias and Leonor de Valderrama y Moctezuma.
Regards
Denise
Managers of Juan Gomez Garcia-´Rubio,
saludos ....quiero hacer saver ....que no mas info...va ha ser aderida a este sitio
Yo no me preocuparía ni le respondería nada. A lo mejor alguien ligó el árbol de ustedes de geni con el de él y no le pareció.
Saludos cordiales,
Victoriano Navarro
Might any one have any info on the ancestor of mine he married Gertrudis Enriquez and i descend from their daughter Maria Ruiz wife of Xptoval Servantez
Hello All,
Mazo, I'm assuming you are looking at the records found here:
https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/index#uri=https%3A%2F%2Ffamil…
It doesn't help much to search by name if you're not using the index. Click on the county you want and scroll to the end of the list. Find the index for the year you want. Find the month and year of death, locate the name, and note the number assigned to the name. That is the number on the death certificate.
Death certificates are in order by year and certificate number.
Hope this helps
Raul Munoz
Hello Mazo
I don't know what records you are searching through but Ancestry will give you minimal information as far as name and date. In order to get an actual copy you have to contact the LA County Record Bureau directly or order it through Ancestry. LA does not make these records available to the public like Arizona and some states do for free. These records bring in revenue for the County. In order to send for the copy you do need the name and date of death. There is a fee but its not much if you contact the records bureau directly.
Hope this helps,
Barbara
Sent from my iPhone
On Oct 13, 2012, at 2:20 PM, ochoafam4@rocketmail.com wrote:
> Hello All,
>
> I was looking for a bit of direction. In search of more family details I am looking through Los Angeles death records. My great grandmother (born in Mexico died in Los Angeles ca) but cannot seem to locate her death record. I found the date but am looking for the image...however it seems the filed date, date of death, and
Thanks Barbara, I use family search, it seems to have the largest database
...you can access some of the death certificate images here
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1942-29346-13393-43?cc=2001287…
(This is for los angeles county 1947)
I was just asking, how they are archived because they seem at times to be alphabetical, others by date so I was unsure.. but thanks for the help anyhow I appreciate the effort.
Monica Ochoa
Thanks for the link Monica,,, going to have to check their data bases first.
Barbara
On Oct 13, 2012, at 3:53 PM, ochoafam4@rocketmail.com wrote:
> Thanks Barbara, I use family search, it seems to have the largest database
> ...you can access some of the death certificate images here
>
> https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1942-29346-13393-43?cc=2001287…
>
> (This is for los angeles county 1947)
>
> I was just asking, how they are archived because they seem at times to be alphabetical, others by date so I was unsure.. but thanks for the help anyhow I appreciate the effort.
>
> Monica Ochoa
I found no images of the actual death record in California.. you can order one or go to the records hall to view an original. They do charge for a copy of notarized record.
Linda in B.C.
________________________________
From: "ochoafam4@rocketmail.com"
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2012 2:20 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] death records
Hello All,
I was looking for a bit of direction. In search of more family details I am looking through Los Angeles death records. My great grandmother (born in Mexico died in Los Angeles ca) but cannot seem to locate her death record. I found the date but am looking for the image...however it seems the filed date, date of death, and record dates all differ. Does anyone know whether I should be looking by date of death?? last name?? filed date? ANY HELP WOULD BE APPRECIATED, THANKS IN ADVANCE!
Mazo
Thanks Linda, I use family search, it seems to have the largest database
...you can access some of the death certificate images here
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1942-29346-13393-43?cc=2001287…
(This is for los angeles county 1947)
I was just asking, how they are archived because they seem at times to be alphabetical, others by date so I was unsure.. but thanks for the help anyhow I appreciate the effort.
Monica Ochoa
In a death record when giving the name of the person who died as a married
adult I've seen some records that give the spouses name and immediately
following the spouses name it has this phrase "de edad de". . .I know that
this means "of the age of" but why would it be after the spouses name. Just
speculating that this is referring back to the person who just died age.
What do you think? Have you seen the age of the person who died given
immediately after giving the spouses name or do you think it is referring to
the age of the spouse? If you think the latter why do you think it was
important to include the spouse age in the record?
Joseph
Joseph Puentes
Hello Joseph, I've seen this in some of the death records for Tepetongo, Zacatecas. It doesn't happen too often but has always referred to the dead person in the cases I've come across.
Barbara
Sent from my iPhone
On Jan 29, 2013, at 5:42 PM, "Joseph Puentes" wrote:
> In a death record when giving the name of the person who died as a married
> adult I've seen some records that give the spouses name and immediately
> following the spouses name it has this phrase "de edad de". . .I know that
> this means "of the age of" but why would it be after the spouses name. Just
> speculating that this is referring back to the person who just died age.
>
>
>
> What do you think? Have you seen the age of the person who died given
> immediately after giving the spouses name or do you think it is referring to
> the age of the spouse? If you think the latter why do you think it was
> important to include the spouse age in the record?
>
>
>
> Joseph
>
>
>
>
>
> Joseph Puentes
>
> Clean
Joseph,
It is referring to the age of the viudo or the viuda that is still living.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Barbara Andrews"
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2013 6:01:28 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Death Records
Hello Joseph, I've seen this in some of the death records for Tepetongo, Zacatecas. It doesn't happen too often but has always referred to the dead person in the cases I've come across.
Barbara
Sent from my iPhone
On Jan 29, 2013, at 5:42 PM, "Joseph Puentes" wrote:
> In a death record when giving the name of the person who died as a married
> adult I've seen some records that give the spouses name and immediately
> following the spouses name it has this phrase "de edad de". . .I know that
> this means "of the age of" but why would it be after the spouses name. Just
> speculating that this is referring back to the person who just died age.
>
>
>
> What do you think? Have you seen the age of the
Primos, he leido que algunos estan ineresados en este aapellido, les dejo el link por si les es de utilidad
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1951-20421-26031-50?cc=1860864…
Francisco Leonardo Mendoza (b. abt 1730 in Sombrerete, Zacatecas) married Maria Teresa Enriquez (b. abt 1740 in Huejucar, Jalisco) on 07 Jul 1760 in Colotlan, Jalisco.
Hello group,
I am Ed, and my familial research interest is in both Jalisco and Michoacan.
Hello Ed,
I also love this site and it has been very helpful for me in my family search. I have also met a cousin on my father's side who I still keep in contact with through this site.
So you will never know what you will learn!
Happy searching!
Kristine
Hi Ed-- welcome to the group!
I don't have any connections to you, but I know that this group is very helpful. There is an incredible wealth of knowledge here.
Rosalinda
Buenas noches a todos,
Me llamo Sergio Salés y nací en el D.F., pero la familia de mi abuela
paterna es de Jalisco hasta donde he podido encontrar alrededor de 1690.
Welcome to the group!
I wish I could help you, but I'm searching a different area of Jalisco; however, someone else may have some good suggestions as there are many in the group who are very knowledgeable.
Good luck!
Rosalinda
While researching my McNeal side of the family I discovered that both of my parents are distant cousins to Bejaman Harrison.
Hola Randy ,how are you ? Well I hope. Question how is Benjamin Harrison related through what line ?
Ronnie
> To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: rmcneal103@msn.com
> Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2013 17:25:17 -0800
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] The strange turns in family searches
>
> While researching my McNeal side of the family I discovered that both of my parents are distant cousins to Bejaman Harrison.
>
> On my mothers side (Reynoso Hurtado)through Inez Alfons De Ayala (1330-1395) and Don Diego De Toledo (1334 – 1418) and on my fathers side through Sir Walter Mountjoy Blount (1420-1474)and Ellen Byron (1416-1467)
>
> Then it dawned on me and I looked a little harder and indeed my parents are very distant cousins.
Ronnie, I hope this makes sense
Inez Alfons De Ayala is a sister of Aldonza Fernandez De Ayala Lady of Hita i Buitrago (1338 - 1395) she is my17th greatgrandmother
Inez Alfons De Ayala (1330-1395) and Don Diego De Toledo (1334 – 1418) daughter Sancha De Ayala married Walter Blount. My Father’s mother’s family comes down through John Blount who is Walter's brother and my 15th greatgrandfather.
Sancha De Ayala and Walter Blount are Benjamin Harrison’s 12 great grandparents.
The Reynoso connection to Aldonza is below:
Aldonza Fernandez De Ayala Lady of Hita i Buitrago (1338 - 1395)
Daughter of Fernán Pérez
Diego Hurtado De Mendoza Almirante de Castilla (1365 - 1404)
Son of Aldonza Fernandez
Inigo Lopez De Mendoza De La Vega 1st Marquez de Santillana (1398 - 1458)
Son of Diego Hurtado
Maria De Mendoza Suarez (1430 - )
Daughter of Inigo Lopez
Bernardino Fernandez De Velasco (1455 - 1511)
Son of Maria
Diego Tremino De Velasco (1474 - 1564)
Son of Bernardino
Mariana Banuelos (1535 - )
Sanchez-Castellanos
How can I search files in Sevilla, there are files in Ancestry?
That's an incredible connection! I know that when I discovered that my parents are related to each other, they weren't quite as distantly related, but my parents did not have an idea of their relationship. Their immigrant ancestors came at different times, but settled in the same city, next door to one another. Later, their descendants (my parents) married. It turned out that my grandmas are cousins-- no one knew.
It's not incredible once you look at their genealogies, but considering the distance, it came as a bit of a shock. That's one of the many reasons I enjoy this hobby-- it uncovers the mysteries of the past and clarifies the pieces of my genealogical puzzle.
Rosalinda
Did the Spaniard really raped the indegenous people?I was having a discussion with my aunt on this topic and she was saying that of cours the spanish raped the indegenous why do you think I'm brown sh
Your question seems to be more of a statement.
It appears you've answered your own question.
Truth be told, most of what we've heard or read on the Spaniards in Mexico is propaganda by Anglos, at first, and later the Mexican government. As with any culture, at some point in time, some did most didn't.
Looking up to the Aztecs? Only after the independence of Mexico from Spain. The new government needed a rallying point, something to differentiate themselves and the people of Mexico from Spain. Again, a propaganda tool and not really the mood or thought of the general populace, which by the way stretched from Central America to some points near Deadwood in the Dakotas. That is if you believe the old maps.
The Aztec issue was driven home again after the Revolution of 1910 and the civil war that followed. Once again, another rallying point to unite the very different cultures that make up Mexico.
After WWII, the Mexican government looked for another image to present to the rest of
This is an example of something I experience from time to time. I receive responses/answers to issues on nuestros ranchos when I never received the original request or comment. I was under the impression I had registered for all research, general, and announcements. Do other members experience this? Thanks so much, Alice
--- On Sat, 11/17/12, jlblonde@sbcglobal.net wrote:
From: jlblonde@sbcglobal.net
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Important Question?
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Saturday, November 17, 2012, 10:09 AM
Your question seems to be more of a statement.
It appears you've answered your own question.
Truth be told, most of what we've heard or read on the Spaniards in Mexico is propaganda by Anglos, at first, and later the Mexican government. As with any culture, at some point in time, some did most didn't.
Looking up to the Aztecs? Only after the independence of Mexico from Spain. The new government needed a rallying point, something to
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alice Blake"
To:
Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2012 11:46 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Important Question?
This is an example of something I experience from time to time. I receive
responses/answers to issues on nuestros ranchos when I never received the
original request or comment. I was under the impression I had registered for
all research, general, and announcements. Do other members experience this?
Thanks so much, Alice
--- On Sat, 11/17/12, jlblonde@sbcglobal.net wrote:
From: jlblonde@sbcglobal.net
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Important Question?
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Saturday, November 17, 2012, 10:09 AM
Your question seems to be more of a statement.
It appears you've answered your own question.
Truth be told, most of what we've heard or read on the Spaniards in Mexico
is propaganda by Anglos, at first, and later the Mexican government. As with
any culture, at some point in time, some did most
You're not alone, Alice. I didn't get the original message either. In
fact, I don't get as many emails from NR as I used to : (
Rgds,
Bill Figueroa
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alice Blake"
To:
Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2012 11:46 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Important Question?
This is an example of something I experience from time to time. I receive
responses/answers to issues on nuestros ranchos when I never received the
original request or comment. I was under the impression I had registered for
all research, general, and announcements. Do other members experience this?
Thanks so much, Alice
--- On Sat, 11/17/12, jlblonde@sbcglobal.net wrote:
From: jlblonde@sbcglobal.net
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Important Question?
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Saturday, November 17, 2012, 10:09 AM
Your question seems to be more of a statement.
It appears you've answered your own question.
Truth be told, most of what we've heard or read on
Same here,
I don't know what this refers to. I very seldom receive emails from Nuestros Ranchos. Something is definitely wrong!!
Alicia,
San Jose, Ca
________________________________
From: Bill Figueroa
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2012 10:18 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Important Question?
You're not alone, Alice. I didn't get the original message either. In fact, I don't get as many emails from NR as I used to : (
Rgds,
Bill Figueroa
----- Original Message ----- From: "Alice Blake"
To:
Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2012 11:46 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Important Question?
This is an example of something I experience from time to time. I receive responses/answers to issues on nuestros ranchos when I never received the original request or comment. I was under the impression I had registered for all research, general, and announcements. Do other members experience this? Thanks so much, Alice
--- On Sat, 11/17/12, jlblonde
So, it's not just me. Overall I also receive much fewer emails from Nuestros Ranchos. I guess I don't understand who receives which emails. Thanks for your responses. Alice
--- On Sat, 11/17/12, Alicia Carrillo wrote:
From: Alicia Carrillo
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Important Question?
To: "research@nuestrosranchos.org"
Date: Saturday, November 17, 2012, 6:19 PM
Same here,
I don't know what this refers to. I very seldom receive emails from Nuestros Ranchos. Something is definitely wrong!!
Alicia,
San Jose, Ca
________________________________
From: Bill Figueroa
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2012 10:18 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Important Question?
You're not alone, Alice. I didn't get the original message either. In fact, I don't get as many emails from NR as I used to : (
Rgds,
Bill Figueroa
----- Original Message ----- From: "Alice Blake"
To:
Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2012 11:46 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros
You are right, something is off. I wrote Joseph 10/30 after I wasn't
getting any for a few days. They started coming again, but not all. I've
been looking on the website more, to check what I'm missing.
Raquel
Thanks, Raquel. Some of us would like to know what you find out. Alice
--- On Sat, 11/17/12, Raquel Ruiz wrote:
From: Raquel Ruiz
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Important Question?
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Saturday, November 17, 2012, 7:26 PM
You are right, something is off. I wrote Joseph 10/30 after I wasn't
getting any for a few days. They started coming again, but not all. I've
been looking on the website more, to check what I'm missing.
Raquel
Unfortunately rape has been part of many wars throughout human history, including the ones among different tribes before the Spaniards arrived, the Conquest of Mexico, and even wars in the 20th and 21st centuries. When the Spaniards arrived many times the local authorities would give them gifts such as gold, food, and slaves including women. So, yes, many Spaniards raped indigenous people, but chances are indigenous warriors were also doing the same to their neighbours before the Spaniards conquered them all. Many indigenous tribes were also cruel and mean to their enemies and nice to their friends and allies, even as late as the 1800’s in some places like Coahuila where I live. However, not all the blood mixing before and after the Spaniards arrived occurred through rape, there were also a lot of marriages and other kinds of consensual relations.
I doesn’t matter where in the planet you live, you may be Mexican, European, Asian, African, Middle-Eastern or whatever, chances are
yes, that did happen(throughout history men have been known to rape women, I'm not saying that all men are guilty of this, but rape has been in existence for at least a couple thousand years). for example, hernan cortez, during his lifetime, raped both la malinche and isabel de moctezuma.
however not all mestizos were products of rape. consensual sexual relationships(regardless if the couple was married or not) between Spaniards and the indigenous people did exist though. Usually these relationships were between a Spaniard man and an indigenous women, but the gender inverse did exist too.
here's the link to a marriage record between and indigenous man and a Spaniard woman I found
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18417-59521-50?cc=1874591&wc…
the mexicans look up to the aztecs because they were the most recent advanced pre-columbian civilization/empire in mexico. also not all mexicans look up to the aztecs. i personally don't care for them, but i had a teacher who
forget my question.. went for a walk, came home and worked it all out. I wasn't seeing what was in front of me!
Linda Castanon-Long
Saludos a todos los compañeros del foro,,, vengo a pedirles si alguien sabe alfo sobre esta pareja,,, ya que no encuentro los padres de el, y de ella se que su padre se llamaba Andres que al parecer
you see, i want to figure out how francisco miguel marquez & ana de santiago cid casldera are related to each other.
My bad, I didn't read the next pages. Clemente de Acuna is an informant that stated that the groom and bride were actually related. I had to draw a little family tree to find the relationship between the two. The common ancestors were Pedro Cid Caldera and Maria Carrillo.
First the groom: Pedro Cid Caldera and Maria Carrillo had a daughter, whose name is unknown by the informant. This woman had a daugher named Maria Rosales, who married Jose Carlos de Godoi. They had a daughter, also named Maria Rosales, who married Martin de Arceo. This couple had a daughter, Clara de Arceo, who was the mother of the groom, Francisco Miguel Marquez.
Now the bride: Pedro Cid Caldera and Maria Carrillo had another daughter named Clara Cid Caldera. She had a son named Nicolas Caldera, who married Leonor Rodarte. This couple had a son, Nicolas Cruz Caldera, who married Barbara Casilda, and they had a daugher, the bride, Anna de Santiago Caldera.
According to this chart, http://genealogy.about.com/library
thank you for deciphering that document. it was making my head spin in circles, espcially the maria rosales part. i wasn't sure if she was pedro cid caldera's daughter or granddaughter from reading the doucment
I just read your document and it is about the matrimonial information of Franco. Migul. Marquez, an illegitimate child of Clara de Arzeo, and Anna de Santiago Caldera, daughter of Nicolas de la Cruz Caldera and Barbara Casilda de Vlloo. I read the previous pages, and it does mention that there is no blood relationship. On the information of the groom, however, it states an impedimento because he asked the mother of the bride for her hand, not the father. That could be the reason this dispensa made it to Guadalajara for further investigation.
oh ok, but what's the significance of the names mentioned : martin arceo, juana rosales, clemene acuna etc. though? sorry if you i'm bugging you, i'm trying to find out if those following names are realtives of my ancestors or not.
trying to follow all the names mentioned there are confusing and i have no clue how those people are involved in this dispute.
oddly enough i spotted the names pedro cid caldera & his wife maria carrillo(and their adopted daughter clara)
I have been researching all sides of my family tree, from my Roman side in the Jalisco area to my Perez side from I don't know where. This is where I am in need of assistance. I am stuck stuck stuck.
Alicia Avelar Olmos de Carrillo
Do you have his other surname by chance?
Hi Kristine--
Could you be more specific as to where he was located in the records you found?
Rosalinda
Hello,
Here is the link to my Ancestry.com page which has the information for the records I have: http://trees.ancestry.com/tree/1117001/person/505455528
Other surnames for his family are Juarez, which is his wife's family. I do not know his mother's maiden name.
Other names related to the family are Rangel and Franco. Other surnames later married into the family are Paramo and Chavez.
Thank you so much!!
Kristine
Kristine--
I looked at the link you posted, and I noticed that Francisco's brother was living with him-- Anastacio Perez. I found Anastacio living in the same house in 1940, with other Perezes-- perhaps Anastacio's children? Here's the link: http://tinyurl.com/arn3bfz .
I tried to find Francisco and his children, but I think I found some of his sons, living together, at a different address in LA: http://tinyurl.com/aowjyto
I found a border crossing record for Anastacio, but I'm not sure if it's him (I looked at both Anastacio and Anastasio): http://tinyurl.com/axlbyr5
If Francisco isn't living with his sons in 1940, he either moved or lived in some other location, or he died. Here is the link to the deaths of Francisco Perezes from 1930-1939 in California: https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1961-26181-19933-47?cc=1932433… . 19 and 70 are the codes associated with Los Angeles County (the county of death is eighth column of the record). If he died between 1940
Hello,
I have found Francisco's brother, Anastacio, on the census records, but have not found any other information on him, either. I have also found their children, and the link you posted above. Thank you!! =)
I will definitely keep searching for their death records and thank you so very much for looking and posting that records link to familysearch, that is pretty awesome!
The only obituary I have found has been for Francisco's wife, Nieves, who passed in 1924.
Yes, I am in the LA area, sort of. LOL,I live in Orange County.
Thank you all again! Believe me, this is much appreciated.
Kristine
I think this is made more difficult, as Francisco's name is not unique. You could get a copy of Nieves' death certificate, see where she is buried, and then see if Francisco is buried next to her. A specific death date is what you will need to get a death certificate-- the county won't really search for the correct Francisco Perez.
By the way, I work in Orange County!
Rosalinda
Yes, there are so very many "Francisco Perez's" out there to search through. It is very difficult.
I have a copy of Nieves' death certificate and have been to where she is buried, he is not there. At least not when I checked. Perhaps I need to ask another researcher at the cemetery..???
Yay to SoCal! =)
Kristine
Hello Everyone,
I'm still working on my Ponce and Calvillo ancestors from Aguascalientes and I'm currently looking for information on my GGGGGGGGgrandfather Bartolome Ponce who was married to Juana M
This might be a stab in the dark, needle in a haystack, but I saw a 1716 dispensa with Ponce (de Leon) and Lozano, and thought it might be worth taking a look at:
Names Geronimo Lazo Bravo y Rivera (36, Teul, HL de Geronimo Lazo & Magdalena, viudo de Teresa Ponce de Leon); Ana Flores de la Torre (23, Juchipila, viuda de Cristoval Lozano)
Date 30 Mar 1716
Place Teul & Juchipila & Atemanica (in Tequila)
Source Guadalajara Matrimonio 1716-8, Film 167985, Image 12
URL https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18411-14557-72?cc=1874591&wc…
Witnesses Agustin Flores (40, Teul); Antonio Roman (70); Diego Rivera (57)
Tronco Shared Grandparent: A1. Parent of Juana Lopez, A2. Juana Lopez, A3. Cristoval Lozano m. Juana Lopez; B1. Bravo/Rivera?, B2. Geronimo Lazo Bravo m Teresa Ponce de Leon
what does the term "Vos De Espanola mean"?
i found it in one of my ancestor baptism but i cant find it.
It is difficult to translate such a fragment without the full context. If you post the link to the document maybe we could have a better idea of what it means.
Best regards,
Victoriano Navarro
I was so glad yesterday when I found Sebastian Munoz parents as well as Sostenes Aguirre that just literally made my whole day.I found them by locating a baptism record of a daughter of Sebastian Mun
Hola a todos! / Hello to all!
Estoy interesada en saber donde busco datos antes del 1825 para Juchipila, Zacatecas. Cual pueblo tendra los records?
Estoy interesada en saber donde busco datos antes del 1825 para Juchipila, Zacatecas. Cual pueblo tendra los records?
I'm interested in knowing where to find information for Juchipila, Zacatecas before 1825. What towns near it would have it?
Sandra,
I would try, Moyahua, Jalpa or Nochistlan, they are the 3 largest municipalities close to Juchipila. I know in my research for Nochistlan, I occasionally find records for Juchipila residents. Having said that, Jalpa is also short on records for those early years and Moyahua's records begin in 1815 but they are the nearest Municipalities to Juchipila.
Alicia,
San Jose, Ca.
Hi Sandra,
I have found some records in Moyahua (but only from 1814 on) I just hope they did not get destroyed during the Revolution. If you look under Matrimonios de Moyahua 1814-1823 image 2/100 indicates that "it was; Libro primero en el curato de Santiago de Moyahua erigido en la division hecha del de Juchipila....." empezando Mayo de 1814 y hecha por Don Jose Feliciano de Sierra primer cura de ese partido. Guadalajara, Yahualica & Nochistlan are my next choices since they are fairly close to Juchipila.
Bertha Alicia Casanova
Is this spam?