Dr.mt

San Martin Y Estrada

Published by Anónimo (no verificado) –
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Genealogy Research

I am looking for someone that is willing to look up the surname San Martin Y Estrada in two books:"The Econmenderos of New Spain 1521-1555" by Robert Himmerich y Valencia and "Cartas Privadas de Emigr

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Published by October Fly (no verificado) – Vie, 2012-08-03 15:57 | Enlace permanente

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Mickey,

Wow, thank you very much for the prompt response. Your help is really appreciated. My oldest ancestor is Antonio San Martin Y Estrada married to Ana de Lamas O Saucedo. Then, he married Josefa Tello de Orozco, when Ana died in the 1660's. Antonio and Ana had three kids: Antonio, Francisco, and Antonia San Martin Y Estrada.

Does it happen to say where the encomiendas of Pedro or Diego were located?

Thanks!

Comentario

This may have been answered before. I remember researching the Aguascalientes Church records with IGI and I dont see them anymore. Did I miss an explanation or can anyone tell me what happened to them?

Miggy

Comentario

Miggy,
I am not sure if anyone answered your question, but Aguascalientes records can be found under Catholic Church Records. For some reason they never received a separate link from that collection.

Jaime Alvarado

Comentario

Hi Again
In the Cartas book there is not a San Martin y Estrada listed. Anymore?
Mickey

In a message dated 8/2/2012 7:04:00 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
eltobias2003@hotmail.com writes:

I am looking for someone that is willing to look up the surname San Martin
Y Estrada in two books:"The Econmenderos of New Spain 1521-1555" by Robert
Himmerich y Valencia and "Cartas Privadas de Emigrantes a Indias
1540-1616" by Otte Enrique. Your help would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

Comentario

In a message dated 8/2/2012 7:04:00 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
eltobias2003@hotmail.com writes:

I am looking for someone that is willing to look up the surname San Martin
Y Estrada in two books:"The Econmenderos of New Spain 1521-1555" by Robert
Himmerich y Valencia and "Cartas Privadas de Emigrantes a Indias
1540-1616" by Otte Enrique. Your help would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

Comentario

Hi
The Encomenderos has a Diego, and a Pedro.
Mickey

In a message dated 8/2/2012 7:04:00 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
eltobias2003@hotmail.com writes:

I am looking for someone that is willing to look up the surname San Martin
Y Estrada in two books:"The Econmenderos of New Spain 1521-1555" by Robert
Himmerich y Valencia and "Cartas Privadas de Emigrantes a Indias
1540-1616" by Otte Enrique. Your help would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

Comentario

Hi
What are the names?
Mickey

In a message dated 8/2/2012 7:04:00 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
eltobias2003@hotmail.com writes:

I am looking for someone that is willing to look up the surname San Martin
Y Estrada in two books:"The Econmenderos of New Spain 1521-1555" by Robert
Himmerich y Valencia and "Cartas Privadas de Emigrantes a Indias
1540-1616" by Otte Enrique. Your help would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

age at confirmation

Published by Denise_Hernand… –
Foros
Genealogy Research

Hi

I was wondering about age at confirmation in the 1700's and 1800's. Anyone happen to know?

Regards
Denise

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Comentario

Hello Laura and Jose Carlos

Thank you so much for your responses - I would never have guessed babies would be confirmed. The baptism in batches years apart is also good info - I imagine it could be the same for confirmations, explaing the gap I referred to in the other forum topic I recently posted.

It is great to be a member of NR and have others I can turn to for info and advice!

Regards,
Denise

Comentario

I would guess shortly after baptism. This has generally been the custom in Mexico, and though it has started to change to the US norm of 15ish (sophomore in hs), I find that many Mexican children have already been confirmed.

Laura Gonzalez

Comentario

Because of local customs, in some locations, children are confirmed shortly after being baptised; often as babies. Others when they are 8 to 14 years old.

I discovered that in northern Sonora, Mexico, in the 1800s, children were baptised in huge groups at a time. I found thousands were baptised all at once in a 2-3 day period every few years apart. Entire children of each family were baptised at the same time regardless of age.

I surmise it was because in the rural areas the Catholic Bishop didn't get around too often.

Jose Carlos de Leon

My DNA results are back!

Published by Laura_Gonzalez –
Foros
Genealogy Research

This was done thru Ancestry.com and I'm sort of confused.

**Brit: 34% (father's side)
**East Asian: 17% (Huh?)

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Published by maxiebaby1 (no verificado) – Lun, 2012-08-13 15:47 | Enlace permanente

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I just got my results also,,,i had the test done by family tree..i was also surprised by the results..59.01 french,romanian,spanish.....26.64 maya,,and 14.35 mozabite,palestinian,jewish,bedouin......i was thinking more asian...everybody thinks i have some japanese..and people think my mother is filipina...Ana Lemmer

Comentario

Regarding Scandinavian results, slaves from Scandinavia were sold in the slave markets of Seville back when the Moors controlled that part of the Iberian Peninsula. Slaves in Spain were often people taken as prisoners of war, so dont just think in terms of people from sub-Saharan Africa captured and sold into slavery. And there were a lot of slaves in general in Seville in the 1400's and 1500's, so the relatively high percentage of Scandinavian genes is really not so surprising.

See this excerpt on the topic of scandinavian slaves in Spain:

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=T2grY7NbnygC&pg=PA154&lpg=PA154&dq=s…

from:
Slavery and Social Death: A Comparative Study,Harvard University Press, 1982 p. 154 - 156, by Orlando Patterson

Regards,
Denise Fastrup

Comentario

Denise,

Thanks, that's pretty interesting. I was thinking last night that the Scandinavian part might have been from the British Isles, since the Vikings were in parts of England and Ireland raping and pillaging. I had no idea there were Scandinavian slaves in Spain; I will definitely read up on this.

Kristine,

If you're Mexican, the Southern European would be expected, even if you haven't found the source yet. Native South American might be from waaaay back when they left some DNA in Mexico on their way to SA. That's what I'm assuming with *my* Native South American results.

Ana,

Your Middle Eastern results are what I was wondering about when I asked if many Latinos come up with this. It might come from Jews/Arabs being in Spain. I wonder how scientists differentiate between Jews and Palestinians tho. Hmmmm... I think the Maya is the part that makes you look Asian.

Errata.

After doing some "research" on the internet, I think my East Asian genes really indicate Native

Read full comment ➜

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Chinos in Mexico? My father who was from Zacatecas said there were "chinos", but I found out that they were Filipinos brought in ships from the Philipine Islands. The Philipines were part of King Philip of Spain's empire.

Emilie
Port Orchard, WA

> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: mayangrl@sonic.net
> Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2012 17:59:20 -0700
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] DNA-Scandinavian Connection, etc.
>
> Denise,
>
> Thanks, that's pretty interesting. I was thinking last night that the Scandinavian part might have been from the British Isles, since the Vikings were in parts of England and Ireland raping and pillaging. I had no idea there were Scandinavian slaves in Spain; I will definitely read up on this.
>
> Kristine,
>
> If you're Mexican, the Southern European would be expected, even if you haven't found the source yet. Native South American might be from waaaay back when they left some DNA in Mexico on their way to SA. That's what I'm assuming with *my*

Read full comment ➜

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You're so right Emilie,

That's why the Phillipines were named after King Phillip, thus, the Phillipines.

Alicia

________________________________
From: Emilie Garcia
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2012 1:50 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] DNA-Scandinavian Connection, etc.

Chinos in Mexico?  My father who was from Zacatecas said there were "chinos", but I found out that they were Filipinos brought in ships from the Philipine Islands.  The Philipines were part of King Philip of Spain's empire. 

Emilie
Port Orchard, WA

> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: mayangrl@sonic.net
> Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2012 17:59:20 -0700
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] DNA-Scandinavian Connection, etc.
>
> Denise,
>
> Thanks, that's pretty interesting. I was thinking last night that the Scandinavian part might have been from the British Isles, since the Vikings were in parts of England and Ireland raping and pillaging. I had no idea there were Scandinavian

Read full comment ➜

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Laura,

The test you took is what is called an Autosomal STR test. What they do is
match certain STR results with certain regions but the database is so small
that it isn't really accurate. Apart from that DNA is much older than any
of the ethnic groups that have existed over the past 2,000 years. Also,
ethnicities, languages, nationalities, and DNA are exclusive of each other.
The people they are calling English or Scandinavian could have been the
same hunter-gatherers that first entered Europe 40,000 or so years ago or
the farmers that entered Europe at a later date.
http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2012/07/bronze-age-indo-european-invasion-…
Something to keep in mind is that the Y-DNA of the British is very similar
to Spanish Y-DNA and they probably don't have enough samples from Spaniards
to differentiate them from other Europeans.

There are a lot of people that are upset with their results from
Ancestry.com DNA test results
http://www.thegeneticgenealogist.com/2012/04/02/a

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Hi Laura, I received my results of family finder

57.04% Europe Western Europe (French, Spanish)
29.62% Central American Native American (Mayan)
8.25 % Midle East Mozabite, Palestinian, Jewish,Bedouin
5.09 % East Asia (Siberian) Yakut

As you can see the Family tree DNA put diferent the result, I think Siberian and Native American is the same and maybe the R1b west european could be from midle east migration several thousands of years bfore the present.

Published by October Fly (no verificado) – Lun, 2012-08-13 09:52 | Enlace permanente

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Laura,

Congratulations on getting your results back. I have not submitted a DNA test for myself, but it's on my agenda. It's my opinion, that you have to disarm yourself and leave aside any pre-conceived notion of who you think you are when you are doing your genealogy research, especially when you are lucky enough to have DNA results. There is a great documentary that helped me understand DNA results that you should watch, if you haven't already: "Human Family Tree" by National Geographic. The last time I checked, it was on Netflix Instant.

Comentario

Hello,

I also received my DNA results from Ancestry.com, and had some odd results as well. Not quite as varied as yours, but still a little odd.

Native North American 32% (Makes sense, USA & Mexico-but thought this would be higher)
Southern European 26% (Spain.. ok, makes sense-assuming Father side. Haven't found the source yet though)
Native South American 16% (don't know which side yet)
Finnish/Folga-Ural 12%(makes no sense!)I guess I am part Russian & Finnish!!
Uncertain 14%

So you are not alone in receiving some strange information. But I think that it makes the hunt for our ancestors all the more fun and exciting. Of course there is always room for error, as with the "Uncertain" part.

I know this really isn't an answer to your questions, but you are definitely not alone in your DNA test results confusions!

Kristine Wulf

Seeking information on Grandparents in State of Jalisco, area of Los Altos

Published by agutierrez07 –
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Genealogy Research

Hello! My name is Ann Marie Gutierrez and I am seeking info on my grandparents and great-grandparents whom I believe where from the area of Los Altos de Jalisco.

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Norma West
My grandfather was Gabino Gutierrez from Jalisco and read your post with interest. His father was Monico Gutierrez, grandfather Guadlupe Gutierrez. I don't think that it is the same line posted as the mothers are different, but my grandfather had blue eyes and that caught my attention. If anything is familiar with your in-law line I would be interested.
Thanks

Comentario

Hi Norma, I'm so glad you wrote.  I just responded to another person who asked
about possible ties since there are close places of birth(pob) and the name of
Gutierrez.  My grandfather, Izequio (sp?) Gutierrez was tall, fair, light hair
and blue eyes.  My grandmother, Maria Teresa Gomez was tall for a women, 6 feet
tall!, and had green eyes, I got the green eyes.  They are from the state of
Jalisco close to San Diego de Alejandria, other places mentioned was San
Julian, Arandas and what a friend of mine called 'Los Llanos' in Jalisco
supposedly on the state border of Guanajuato.  Let's keep in touch and see if we
are distantly related since my father-in-law used to tease me that we were
"parientes" related since we come from the same area in Jalisco and we looked
alike.   As you can see, my paternal grandmother was "Guadalupe Gutierrez."  
Who knows we may be distant cousins! 

Keep in touch
  
Ann M. Gutierrez
Chicago, IL

________________________________
From:

Read full comment ➜

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Norma, I forgot to mention, yes, my father-in-law was tall, fair, blond hair and
blue eyes.  My first son is the spitting image of my father-in-law. He has the
same blond streak in his hair like my in law.  We call it the Gutierrez streak
since my other two sons also are blond and blue eyes with the streak.  My
father-in-law's name was Lino Gutierrez;  my mother-in-law was Natividad
Hurtado. I don't know if they married in jalisco but I do know they moved to
Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes.  Hope that helps.

 Ann M. Gutierrez

________________________________
From: "madquilter8@att.net"
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Fri, August 17, 2012 1:02:46 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Gutierrez

Norma West
My grandfather was Gabino Gutierrez from Jalisco and read your post with
interest. His father was Monico Gutierrez, grandfather Guadlupe Gutierrez. I
don't think that it is the same line posted as the mothers are different, but my
grandfather had blue eyes and

Read full comment ➜

Comentario

Ann Marie,
This was pretty easy. Start with what you know...

LLamara Maria del Socorro Gutierrez born on 12Jul1912 en San Diego de Alejandria.
From the Civil records, 1907-1914:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1942-21318-9610-43?cc=1918187&…

Father: Theserquio (sp?) Gutierrez
Mother: Teresa Gomez

Paternos: Guadalupe Gutierrez y Refugio Camarena
Maternos: Jesus Gomez y Porfiria Guerrero

This should get you on your way,
Good Searching,
Roy

Comentario

Llamara means "will be named"

The baptism of a son of Guadalupe Gutierrez and Refugio Camarena shows the
parents of Guadalupe to be Blas Gutiérrez and María Gregoria García married
20 Feb 1832 in Arandas. The baptism of one of their children shows the
parents of Blas Gutiérrez to be Manuel Gutiérrez and Magdalena Martín. A
search of Geneanet.org gives me the following page http://goo.gl/hb0NF that
goes back to Salvador Gutiérrez de Mendoza and Mariana Hurtado de Mendoza
married 16 October 1719 in Lagos de Moreno. They had a dispensation request
22 Ago 1719
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18380-22531-1?cc=1874591&wc=…
it shows Salvador to be the son of Salvador Gutiérrez de Mendoza and
Damiana Vázquez de Lara. Another search of Geneanet.org gives me the
following page http://goo.gl/pwqVo which goes back to the first Gutiérrez
of this line, and also ancestors of mine and many alteños, Francisco
Gutiérrez Rubio and his wife Ana González Florida.

Marriage of Jesus

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Hola Armando,  THANK YOU SO MUCH for your search. It's amazing what you have
found.  Would you believe my father-in-law is also a Gutierrez originally from
Jalisco than they moved to Aguascalientes.  He used to tease me and say I must
be a "pariente" because we looked alike.  He had blue eyes and I have green
eyes.  I think you have found the family of my in-laws.  I am so grateful and
appreciate your assistance.  I will check out the websites you indicated.  Have
a great day and again, THANK YOU!

 Ann M. Gutierrez

________________________________
From: Armando
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Fri, August 17, 2012 5:18:47 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Socorro Gutierrez

Llamara means "will be named"

The baptism of a son of Guadalupe Gutierrez and Refugio Camarena shows the
parents of Guadalupe to be Blas Gutiérrez and María Gregoria García married
20 Feb 1832 in Arandas. The baptism of one of their children shows the
parents of Blas Gutiérrez to be Manuel

Read full comment ➜

Comentario

THANK YOU!  You have no idea the hours I've spent trying to search on
Acestrydotcom and FamilySearch and other websites.  I thank you from the bottom
of my heart for the assistance and for presenting me with my Mother's civil
registration and also the names of my grandparents...I was almost in
tears.  Words cannot convey what I feel.....all I can say is THANK YOU.
Now that I have the full names of my grandparents, I'll keep searching and I
promise I won't blubber all over you.....have a great day...
Que Dios Los Bendiga a Todos...gracias por su ayuda y apoyo.

 Ann M. Gutierrez

________________________________
From: "rvr_jr@msn.com"
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thu, August 16, 2012 11:43:40 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Socorro Gutierrez

Ann Marie,
This was pretty easy.  Start with what you know...

LLamara Maria del Socorro Gutierrez born on 12Jul1912 en San Diego de
Alejandria.
From the Civil records, 1907-1914:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH

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Ann Marie Gutierrez

GRACIAS A TODOS QUIEN AYUDARON EN ENCONTRAR EL REGISTRO CIVIL DE MI MAMA. I'm not that fluent in writing Spanish but I guess you all get the jest of what I'm trying to say...THANK YOU!
You have no idea how many hours I have spent trying to find information on my Mom---and all of a sudden---thanks to you guys, there it was. I don't have the words to convey how grateful I am.
I was almost in tears when I saw the birth registratiton of my Mom. GRACIAS, MUCHAS GRACIAS!

Comentario

Ann Marie Gutierrez

Roy, I appreciate the info you sent, especially since I'm not proficient at doing searches. When I tried to access the info you sent, to make a copy, at first it would not respond and then I finally got it. My question to you, is there a way we can purchase a photo of the file to have a better copy for our family album. Please let me know. Thank you.

Familia Villalobos Dávalos

Published by Armando –
Foros
History, Culture and General Discussion

Hello everyone,

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Comentario

Acabo de encontrar a un José María Villalobos nacido en La Mesa de Lagos de Moreno el 26 de Agosto de 1781. Se que hay muchos aqui que tienen datos sobre los Villalobos de La Mesa. ¿Hay alguien que me puede decir con quien se casó?
http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#p=recordimage;c=1…

I just found a José María Villalobos born in La Mesa of Lagos de Moreno August, 26 1781. I know there are a lot of members that have info on the Villalobos of La Mesa. Can anyone tell me who he married?
http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#p=recordimage;c=1…

Gracias de antemano.
Thanks

Armando

Comentario

Carlos Favian Villalobos Gonzalez

Hola que tal Armando veo que hace unos años escribiste que andabas buscando informacion sobre tus antepasados siendo uno de ellos Bernardo Villalobos. Te comento que actualmente me encuentro tambien tratando de descubrir informacion similar pero yo por parte de lo que creo fue su segundo matrimonia a Ygnacia Velazquez, al parecer despues de que fallecio su primera esposa Juana Davalos, pues al menos asi dice el acta de matrimonio de 1861 es cuando se casa con su segunda esposa. Si te interesa alomejor nos podemos ayudar a encontrar informacion igual y te paso la que yo tengo pues de acuerdo a un acta de nacimiento de Bernardo Villalobos, de Lagos, Jalisco, sus padres son Jose Maria Villalobos y Calixtra Santoyo, por lo que no se si nos referimos a la misma familia pero bueno como quiera estoy a tus ordenes.

Comentario

Found Bernardo on the VRI for Mexico

Bernardo Villalobos
Christened 30 Aug 1813
Encarnacion, Jalisco
Father: Cristoval Villalobos
Mother: Maria Navarro
Paternal grandfather: Juan Villalobos
Paternal grandmother: Antonia Martin
Maternal grandfather: Cristoval Navarro
Maternal grandmother: Antonia Martin

Batch C602692
Film/Fisch # 1155173

I hope this helps you :)

Elisa

Comentario

Elisa,
Thanks for the info. I found the birth record of Bernardo Villalobo Santoyo of 25 Aug 1828 in film # 221431. I also found the birth record of Hermelinda Villalobos Dávalos of 9 April 1860, film # 221443, which has the paternal grandparents listed as José María Villalobos and Calista Santoyo and the maternal grandparents listed as Rafael Dávalos and Narsisa Losano. So now I want to find more info on Juana Dávalos Losano, Rafael Dávalos, Narsisa Losano, José María Villalobos, and Calista Santoyo. The problem is that all, except Juana Dávalos, could have been born anywhere between 1780 to 1815. That's 10 films to have to look through. I did find a marriage of a Rafael Dávalos and a Malena Losano on 10 Jan 1812. Malena and Narsisa Losano may be the same person but I have no way to prove it. What I really need is a birth record of a Dávalos Losano with the grandparents listed. In short this is what I have...

Elisa, gracias por la información. Encontré el registro de bautismo de

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Comentario

Armando,

I did some looking on your family today, and I found some information for you (both upwards and downwards):

Ahnentafel Chart for Armando Antuñano Tovar
First Generation
1. Armando Antuñano Tovar was born on 24 Sep 1939. He died in 1989 in Lagos de Moreno, Jalisco, Mexico.

Second Generation
2. Joaquin Antuñano Villalobos was born on 10 May 1890 in Lagos de Moreno, Jalisco, Mexico. He died on 21 Nov 1952 in Lagos de Moreno, Jalisco, Mexico. Joaquin married Maria Dolores Tovar Renteria.
3. Maria Dolores Tovar Renteria was born on 28 Apr 1898 in Mexico, Distrito Federal, Mexico. She was christened on 2 May 1898 in San Cosme y San Damián, San Cosme, Distrito Federal, Mexico. She died on 9 Mar 1978 in Mexico, Distrito Federal, Mexico.
They had the following children.
+ 1 M i. Armando Antuñano Tovar was born on 24 Sep 1939. He died in 1989.

Third Generation
4. José Antonio Antuñano San Martín was born on 4 Jan 1830 in Lanestosa, Vizcaya, Spain. He died on 8 Jul 1896 in Lagos de

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Comentario

Jonathan,
I really appreciate the info. Almost everything I already had, that I was sure of, matches what you gave me.
I did already have all the Antuñano info back to 1576. There were a total of eight brothers and sisters for the Antuñano Villalobos family. Missing are Melchor (a bullfighter), Julían, Pedro (also a bullfighter), and Antonio. He might be Placido Antonio like his uncle Placido Antonio Antuñano San Martín.
My father, Armando Antuñano Tovar, had 10 brothers and sisters. Raquel, Adolfo, María Dolores, Samuel, Joaquín, Leticia, Emma, Licha, José de Jesus, and Ruth.

Are you able to go back farther in the Villalobos, Dávalos, Tovar, and Rentería lines? Also, there do seem to be some Villalobos Dávalos and Villalobos Velazquez siblings missing.

Armando

Research Digest, Vol 79, Issue 13

Published by Anónimo (no verificado) –
Foros
Genealogy Research

thanks Emilie,,i thought i would find some asian,,I looooove anything Japanese,,Maya is even better,,from our own country,,it is believed that atotonilco el alto was mostly Purepeche Indians so i pose

Images of Mexican Indians

Published by Anónimo (no verificado) –
Foros
Genealogy Research

Hi,,I would like to know if anyone knows of any books that might contain images of mexican indians..i know there are quite a few of mayan and aztec indians.how about purepeche ?,,chichimecas ??

Comentarios

Published by victorianonavarro (no verificado) – Mar, 2012-08-14 08:26 | Enlace permanente

Comentario

You can check on the CDI page (Comisión Nacional para el desarrollo de los pueblos Indígenas):
http://www.cdi.gob.mx/

Their Atlas:
http://www.cdi.gob.mx/index.php?option=com_wrapper&view=wrapper&Itemid=…

Their Monographies:
http://www.cdi.gob.mx/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&id=54&…

Their Photo gallery:
http://www.cdi.gob.mx/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&id=20

Victoriano Navarro

GEDCOM

Published by Anónimo (no verificado) –
Foros
Genealogy Research

Hi one and all,,,i finally uploaded my family tree to rootsweb,,,,,so now how do i uploaded here....

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Comentario

Ask one of the administrators to create a Family Tree in Gedcom for you.
Then after that is done, go to Gedcom section and down under the search engines, select "administration" and it'll bring you to the upload area and select the options that you want and upload your GEDCOM file from your computer. Wait a few minutes then you'll see a bunch of computer symbols, and you're done!

Jose Carlos de Leon

Help with surname, trying to break a wall

Published by Steve_G._Apodaca –
Foros
Genealogy Research

Hello everyone. I've had a brickwall on my direct paternal line for years and I'm looking all over the place for clues.

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Published by victorianonavarro (no verificado) – Mié, 2012-08-08 22:15 | Enlace permanente

Comentario

I think it says "de Albiaso". On Familysearch I found some people listed with that surname (also spelled Albiazo) in Totatiche, Jalisco in the 1820's and 1830's, Guadalajara in the 1740's and Bolaños, Jalisco in the 1810's.

Best regards,
Victoriano Navarro

researching Enrique Esteinou

Published by stinkysmomma –
Foros
Genealogy Research

Locations of Research Interest: La Hacienda San Antonio de Sauceda,San
Antonio Saucedo,Fresillo, Valparaiso,Zacatecas

Surnames Researching: Esteinou

Hello Nuestros Rancheros!

Valdéz-Sandate San Luis Potosi

Published by siriuslr –
Foros
Genealogy Research

go: https://familysearch.org/search/image/index#uri=https%3A//familysearch… next look for the record.. marriage, or birth... and the village and date..

Comentarios

Help me understand the race notation.

Published by PappyRod –
Foros
Genealogy Research

The following is from my father's birth record...

If I understand it correctly, my father is half Native American.

Can someone please translate this and confirm what I think I'm reading?

Comentarios

Comentario

Roy,

As I understand it, it says,

* que es primero en su estado, meaning being the first in his state or condition
* siendo sus progenitores de raza indigena - his progenitors being of an indigenous race
* blanco y mejicanos por nacimiento - white and Mexicans through birth
Alicia,
San Jose, Ca

________________________________
From: "rvr_jr@msn.com"
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Tuesday, July 3, 2012 1:13 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Help me understand the race notation.

The following is from my father's birth record...

If I understand it correctly, my father is half Native American.

Can someone please translate this and confirm what I think I'm reading?
"Jose Rogaciano del Real hijo natural del comparente y de Maria Dolores Villasenor, de veinticinco anos, que es el primero en su estado, sindo sus progenitores de raza indigeno blanco y mexicanos por nacimient."
The actual document is posted in my folder if looking at the original will help.

http:/

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Comentario

Roy,

I have a Nuestros Ranchos cousin, Juan Aguayo who had his admixture DNA done, you might want to consult with him. I think he used Family Tree DNA when they had the special rate going.

Remember, the scribes are not always correct in what they note on the records, so take this as an initial discovery but keep searching for corroborating facts and data with siblings, aunts, uncles grandparents etc.

Alicia,
San Jose, Ca

________________________________
From: "rvr_jr@msn.com"
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Tuesday, July 3, 2012 7:49 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Help me understand the

Thank you Alica,
I guess I should get my DNA tested to termine which line is indigenous.
Roy

Comentario

Alicia,
I am already looking at FamilyTreeDNA (Y-DNA37+mtDNAPlus).

My father told me on numerous occasions that we had Indian, Spanish, and French blood. He just didn't know the details.

I only recently started tracing my father's line, so I know there's a long road ahead.

Thanks again,
Roy

Comentario

It is very doubtful you have French blood. There is a persistent false myth
that French blood exists in high quantities in our area of research (Nueva
Galicia) due to the large number of güeros with blond or red hair and blue
or green eyes and the French intervention in Mexico, as if there weren't
Spaniards that have those characteristics and the people in our area didn't
already look like that. Apart from that there is no proof whatsoever of the
people of the French intervention mixing with the people of Nueva Galicia
and many güeros have documented ancestry going back many centuries before
the French intervention. That isn't to say you don't or can't have French
blood from an immigrant but the likelihood is probably about a 2% chance.

You might be able to save a little by getting the FamilyTreeDNA
(Y-DNA37+mtDNAPlus) through the Mexico DNA group project
http://www.familytreedna.com/group-join.aspx?Group=Mexico-DNA

Saludos,
Armando

On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 11:26 PM, wrote:

>

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Comentario

my Castanon family is from the district of Jerez, Zac and I was also told we had French blood so the elders were a bit put off when I found no French lineage but Mulato, Spanish and Yndio.. they insisted there had never been any black slaves in Jerez.. people don't always like what our research shows them. I felt previleged to share the blood of the history of Mexico but not everyone will feel that way.
On a side not Mande was what was always said to the grandparents.
Linda in B.C.

________________________________
From: Armando
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thursday, July 5, 2012 2:34 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Help me understand the

It is very doubtful you have French blood. There is a persistent false myth
that French blood exists in high quantities in our area of research (Nueva
Galicia) due to the large number of güeros with blond or red hair and blue
or green eyes and the French intervention in Mexico, as if there weren't
Spaniards that have those

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Comentario

Hello,

That is hilarious. My elders also said we had a french background when my geneology research show that we go back several generations in Tlatenango (to 1600's or before) and sourrounding areas and that our ancesters were mainly Spanish. They were also very upset to find out we had Spanish blood and insited no one was Spanish.

Go figure.

Pauline

-----Original Message-----
>From: Erlinda Castanon-Long
>Sent: Jul 5, 2012 4:01 PM
>To: "research@nuestrosranchos.org"
>Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Help me understand the
>
>my Castanon family is from the district of Jerez, Zac and I was also told we had French blood so the elders were a bit put off when I found no French lineage but Mulato, Spanish and Yndio.. they insisted there had never been any black slaves in Jerez.. people don't always like what our research shows them. I felt previleged to share the blood of the history of Mexico but not everyone will feel that way.
>On a side not Mande was what was always said to the

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Comentario

Armando,
Within the last month, I have discovered more about my father's family than anyone would have guessed. Regretably, he is no longer with us to know of these things.

I went ahead and joined the Felix group and ordered the DNA kit (Y-DNA37+mtDNAPlus).
When the Family Finder goes on sale, I'll will also order that.

Not to offend anyone, but I'm totally indifferent to having any French heritage. Whatever is...is. I've traced my maternal family back to the 1400's in Italy, so it would be great to ultimately find my paternal family in Spain in the same timeframe.

As a new member of NR, I am quite impressed with the level of knowledge, sharing, and committment of yourself and fellow members. Having said that, I would appreciate hearing from anyone with information on a del Real line from Tlaltenanco de Sanchez Roman. My early research has my paternal lineage back to Ignacio del Real, married to Lucia Valenzuela, born around 1825-1830. Parents of Don Bernardo del Real, born

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Comentario

Let us know your results when they come in. Once you get your Y-DNA
haplogroup you can have a subclade test done which will provide you a less
generalized area and time for what group you belong to. Family Finder might
help you but in a generalized sense.

I've been wanting to create a Genealogy 101 for NR. Something we do when we
first start is fail to realize that the baptisms post 1800 will have the
abuelos a majority of the time. Another thing to take into consideration is
that some people were just as mobile as we are today. Just because your
studies have taken you to Zacatecas doesn't mean it is the only place you
will find what you are looking for. For example Ygnacio Del Real,​ Lucia
Valenzuela had a child in Jalisco. Abuelos Paternos Don Felis del Real and
Doña Gertrudis Herrera.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18455-32968-35?cc=1874591&wc…
think the name Felis is a mistake and it is really Felipe since there
is
a couple named Felipe del Real and Gertrudis

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Comentario

Armando and other Nuestros Ranchos Members:

Why do you think so many people perpetuate the myth that they're French or have French lineage? I simply cannot understand the why. I know I've heard it said by some people in our family and when I tell people that I've done some genealogical research, inevitably this comes up and they say that they are descended from the French. I hear it all the time and I've even alienated some people when I give them a few facts as to the short time period in which the French occupied Mexico and that it's simply not possible or very unlikely that they could be French.

The British, French and Spanish arrived in Mexico during the Mexican reform period beginning in October of 1861 because Presidente Juarez had refused to pay Mexico's foreign debts.

The French first occupied Puebla, and were defeated on 5 de Mayo of 1862, hence el Cinco de Mayo. The following May, the French again attacked Puebla, then proceeded to Mexico City where they took over the

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Comentario

actually I did find 2 marriages in Jerez, Zac for former French soldiers marrying women from Jerez.. So there are 2 families with French blood in Jerez one  who did have children there.
Linda in B.C.

________________________________
From: Alicia Carrillo
To: "research@nuestrosranchos.org"
Sent: Friday, July 6, 2012 1:41 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] French or not?

Armando and other Nuestros Ranchos Members:

Why do you think so many people perpetuate the myth that they're French or have French lineage? I simply cannot understand the why. I know I've heard it said by some people in our family and when I tell people that I've done some genealogical research, inevitably this comes up and they say that they are descended from the French. I hear it all the time and I've even alienated some people when I give them a few facts as to the short time period in which the French occupied Mexico and that it's simply not possible or very unlikely that they could be French.

The

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Comentario

I found one in Jalpa Zac, named Blondell but to date, I have not found any in Nochistlan where a heavy battle was waged in 1864.

________________________________
From: Erlinda Castanon-Long
To: "research@nuestrosranchos.org"
Sent: Friday, July 6, 2012 7:38 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] French or not?

actually I did find 2 marriages in Jerez, Zac for former French soldiers marrying women from Jerez.. So there are 2 families with French blood in Jerez one  who did have children there.
Linda in B.C.

________________________________
From: Alicia Carrillo
To: "research@nuestrosranchos.org"
Sent: Friday, July 6, 2012 1:41 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] French or not?
 
Armando and other Nuestros Ranchos Members:

Why do you think so many people perpetuate the myth that they're French or have French lineage? I simply cannot understand the why. I know I've heard it said by some people in our family and when I tell people that I've done some genealogical research

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Comentario

What is the surname of these French in Jerez?

Emilie

> Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2012 07:38:31 -0700
> From: longsjourney@yahoo.com
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] French or not?
>
> actually I did find 2 marriages in Jerez, Zac for former French soldiers marrying women from Jerez.. So there are 2 families with French blood in Jerez one who did have children there.
> Linda in B.C.
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Alicia Carrillo
> To: "research@nuestrosranchos.org"
> Sent: Friday, July 6, 2012 1:41 AM
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] French or not?
>
> Armando and other Nuestros Ranchos Members:
>
> Why do you think so many people perpetuate the myth that they're French or have French lineage? I simply cannot understand the why. I know I've heard it said by some people in our family and when I tell people that I've done some genealogical research, inevitably this comes up and they say that they are descended from the French. I

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Comentario

marriagedispensation requested 10 June 1871 in Jerez, Zac
Don Cleofas (Nicolas) Roux from Paris, Francia in Mexico 8 years in la Labor 4 years
single age 32
parents: Juan Bautista Roux and Margarita Maxima Tissaran both deceased
with Dona Martina Salinas from Jerez single age 16
parents: Don Franco M. Salinas and Dona Carmen de Avila both living
wit: Don Carmen Cooper from U.S. Married age 55 Doctor
wit: Patricio Orosco from Jerez widower age 32 barber
wit: Luis Barral from France now in Jerez married age 32 comerciante who was in the same batallion, Cazadores de Africa and terminated service at the same time.
passport shows landing in Mazatlan 17 Feb 1866
dispensation of bans
source: Jerez marriage dispensations 1865-1875
.
#2
marriage dispensation requested 11 June 1869 in Jerez, Zac
Don Luis Barral single age 30 from St. Aupre, France
parents: Don Luis Barral and Dona Maria Parent both deceased
with Ma. Del Pilar Torres from Jerez single age 18
parents: Don Sostenes Torres and Dona

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Comentario

Nuestros Ranchos Members:There were also individuals born in France, but who came to Mexico (sometimes via Spain) before and after the French Intervention. One example is Ángel Navarro, French-born leading Spanish settler in New Spain. My husband also has a gr gr gr gr grandmother (Maria Iturbide) from France who married a Basque man and they imigrated to Guanajuato, Mexico years after the French invasion. Their reason for immigrating was to join family who were already well established in the area. The following article discusses French immigration to Mexico, how many actually came, where they immigrated from, where they immigrated to, and notable Mexicans with French ancestry: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_immigration_to_Mexico Here is also a French genealogy blog that discusses French immigration to Mexico (even before the French Intervention): http://french-genealogy.typepad.com/genealogie/2012/01/french-immigrant…
> Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2012 07:38:31 -0700
>

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Comentario

This group is for serious genealogists actively searching for lineages in
the states of Jalisco, Zacatecas and Aguascalientes.

Also, a lot of people have lost sight of what has caused this discussion to
come about and the reason behind it. There are hundreds, maybe even
thousands, of people with ancestry in Jalisco, Zacatecas and Aguascalientes
that are told they have French ancestry but when their family trees are
seriously researched there isn't a single French ancestor in the past 400
years and wouldn't matter if 10 million French had immigrated to Jalisco,
Zacatecas and Aguascalientes.

Respectfully,
Armando

On Tue, Jul 10, 2012 at 6:19 PM, Leni Rivera wrote:

>
> Nuestros Ranchos Members:There were also individuals born in France, but
> who came to Mexico (sometimes via Spain) before and after the French
> Intervention. One example is Ángel Navarro, French-born leading Spanish
> settler in New Spain. My husband also has a gr gr gr gr grandmother (Maria
> Iturbide) from France

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Comentario

?????
> Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2012 16:50:24 -0500
> From: fandemma@gmail.com
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] French or not?
>
> This group is for serious genealogists actively searching for lineages in
> the states of Jalisco, Zacatecas and Aguascalientes.
>
> Also, a lot of people have lost sight of what has caused this discussion to
> come about and the reason behind it. There are hundreds, maybe even
> thousands, of people with ancestry in Jalisco, Zacatecas and Aguascalientes
> that are told they have French ancestry but when their family trees are
> seriously researched there isn't a single French ancestor in the past 400
> years and wouldn't matter if 10 million French had immigrated to Jalisco,
> Zacatecas and Aguascalientes.
>
> Respectfully,
> Armando
>
> On Tue, Jul 10, 2012 at 6:19 PM, Leni Rivera wrote:
>
> >
> > Nuestros Ranchos Members:There were also individuals born in France, but
> > who came to Mexico (sometimes via Spain)

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Comentario

While it's true what is rare, often is desired, I have come across a couple of incidences where the French could have been involved.  Researching the Archivos Historicos Municipal de Aguascalientes, I've come across several entries from 1865 to 1867 as follows:  "Orden de pago por el tiempo que fue ocupada por una fuerza francesa la casa/hacienda de..." It wouldn't take long for soldiers to get around.  Secondly, there's the Basque that originated from regions of Spain and France, yet often claim autonomy.  One of my Basque lines originated in the Aquitaine in France, yet on his 1776 burial entry, it simply claims, "Europeo", not Frances or Espanol.   Go figure.  Alice

--- On Fri, 7/6/12, Alicia Carrillo wrote:

From: Alicia Carrillo
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] French or not?
To: "research@nuestrosranchos.org"
Date: Friday, July 6, 2012, 8:41 AM

Armando and other Nuestros Ranchos Members:

Why do you think so many people perpetuate the myth that they're French or have French

Read full comment ➜

Comentario

Since we're on the topic of the French and their sometimes exaggerated
influence in Mexico I also want to shed some light on how many believe the
myth that French gave rise to Mariachi music in Mexico. Many mariachi
musicians, to this day, themselves believe that this is true, but it is
not. I’ll first share a little story about my friend Jonathan Clark, a very
well respected mariachi musician and historian.

While in college in the bay area I had the pleasure of working with
Jonathan, a guero from San Jose, Ca. if I remember correctly. Jonathan
started a “guero” Mariachi at San Jose State in the 70s. They played at
many local venues and began to take their playing seriously. Jonathan
organized a trip to Guadalajara to expand their knowledge about mariachi
music and to immerse themselves in the culture of the land of mariachis. He
had always heard of plaza Garibaldi in Mexico City and decided to still
travel there by himself even though he fail to convince his other mariachi
friends

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Comentario

Thanks Primo,

I truly enjoyed the article. My father was one who loved Mariachi Vargas' sones and to this day whenever I hear a son such as La Culebra or el Gavilancillo I only like it with Mariachi Vargas and it reminds me of my dad.

Alicia

________________________________
From: Juan Aguayo
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Friday, July 6, 2012 12:29 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] French or not?

Since we're on the topic of the French and their sometimes exaggerated
influence in Mexico I also want to shed some light on how many believe the
myth that French gave rise to Mariachi music in Mexico. Many mariachi
musicians, to this day, themselves believe that this is true, but it is
not. I’ll first share a little story about my friend Jonathan Clark, a very
well respected mariachi musician and historian.

While in college in the bay area I had the pleasure of working with
Jonathan, a guero from San Jose, Ca. if I remember correctly.  Jonathan
started a “guero” Mariachi

Read full comment ➜

Comentario

Alicia,

I think it is because people in Mexico heard that French had "settled" there, not knowing the true history. They equate blue eyes only with the "recent" foreigners and not their own Spanish ancestors.

My father could have killed me when we stopped for lunch and gas in a small village back in the 1960s on our way to Jerez. I noticed that many of the people there were dark, but had blue eyes. I very impertently asked the dark, blue eyed gas station attendant "porque tantos aqui estan prietos con hojos azules?" (God, what a dumb question, but I was so curious, and young and dumb). He just smiled and said, "los franceses vinieron aqui". My father dressed me up and down for that, but I got an answer that satifsfied me at the time. Now I know better.

Emilie

> Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2012 01:41:32 -0700
> From: alliecar@pacbell.net
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] French or not?
>
> Armando and other Nuestros Ranchos Members:
>
> Why

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Comentario

Armando,
Thank you for the links - it led me to my 3rd and 4th Great Grandparents.
I have now identified two lines of Valenzuela females that married del Real males.
A Genealogy tutorial sounds like a great idea. Sign me up!

Regretably, I had no idea I was "perpetuating the myth" of French ancestry. My father was told that as a child and had no reason to disbelieve it.

My DNA results will certainly be shared when received.

Saludos,
Roy

p.s. I am working on my Spanish.

Comentario

Armando,

Over the past few years there have been numerous inquiries regarding French relations within Jalisco/Mexico in our genealogy searches. You and several others have often replied that there was little to no influence. I was very interested because some merchants in my family came from Jalisco, and the stories say that in addition to our Spanish ancestry, we also had French ancestry in Mexico. I have have found some French connections in Mexico, but not in Jalisco. When I visited Guadalajara a few years ago, I was surprised to see so many fabric stores and department stores in the downtown area. Surely the Barcelonnettes had a touch in these, but there are few accounts of the French in the Jalisco church records for the 1800's to early 1900's. Many of the Barcelonnettes were known to have returned to their homes in France to retire, but they also married and had children in Mexico.

In my research I have found quite a bit about the Barcelonnette's Mexican connection. They

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Tovar, Valdéz

Published by siriuslr –
Foros
Genealogy Research

Children of Pedro and Mateana:
spouse:Matiana Sandatechild:Maria Epifania Valdezname:Maria Epifania Valdezgender:Femalebaptism/christening date:15 Apr 1902baptism/christening place:Nuestra S

vicaria san juan de dios

Published by mazochoa –
Foros
Genealogy Research

Hello,

I hope someone can help me find more information.

I found a record for my grandparents

Comentarios

Comentario

San Juan de Dios es una Iglesia o parroquia que esta en Guadalajara en la
Calzada independencia y creo que Avenida Javier Mina muy cerca de la plaza
de los mariachis. y tambien esta cerca del templo de Analco.

2012/7/28

> Hello,
>
> I hope someone can help me find more information.
> I found a record for my grandparents
> (https://familysearch.org/pal:**/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18380-28269-28?**
> cc=1874591&wc=12241307)
> marriage and am trying to get more info on the grooms parents. The record
> reads "Luis Medina...originario de (?San?) Juan de Dios y vecino de esta
> parroquia desde la infancia" . I would like to research his parents in
> those church records but am unsure where to begin, I beleive he was born in
> Mex. DF but can't find a parish called San Juan de Dios in those records.
> Does anyone know where this parish is or have advice on searching for
> Francisco or Rafaela Lopes de Medina
>
> Thank you!
> Monica Ochoa
>
> Hola,
>
> Ojala que alguien me puede ayudar a encontrar más

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Comentario

Muchisimas gracias Marta!

Porque sabía que mi abuelo era de el DF pese que a la mejor estaba colocado la vicaria em la capital. Gracia por la información.

Saludos,
Monica Ochoa

Comentario

Hola Monica.

El templo de San Juan de Dios se ubica a solo 1 kilometro al norte del de San Jose Analco. De hecho el mercado Libertad ubicado a unos cuantos metros del primero, es conocidísimo como "el Mercado de San Juan de Dios", el mercado techado mas grande de latinoamerica.

Aqui un mapa
http://goo.gl/Lod0S

Lo que das fructifica. Lo que te guardas se pudre.
Miguel Beltran

Comentario

Gracias Miguel!

Usted siempre eres tan generoso con su tiempo y gran cantidad de información. Estoy muy agradecida! Por cuanta de mi mamá sabía que mi abuelo era de el DF por eso pese que a la mejor estaba localizado la vicaria en la capital. Gracia por la información.

Agradecidamente,
Monica Ochoa

Juan Aldama, Zacatecas

Published by mexicanfhr –
Foros
Genealogy Research

Has anyone in the group had any success in finding any records for Juan Aldama, Zacatecas, prior to 1860?

Or has anyone in the group been researching in the Juan Aldama records?

Ayo,,Ayo el Chico,,Ayotlan

Published by Anónimo (no verificado) –
Foros
Genealogy Research

always a day late and a dollar short,,records from ayo are missing altogether ?? or have they not been indexed yet ??

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