TEST SITE - DO NOT USE - Development only

I'm not an "expert" on this issue, but I do remember
that when I had my first child in 1973, my Nana (born
and raised in Mocorito, Sinaloa) told me about the
fact that in Mexico, the women were confined to
bedrest for the 40 days following the birth of their
children, and that they did not bath for those 40
days.  I never thought to ask her if this was for any
perceived medical reason or superstions of some sort.

Olivia

--- "v.h.villarreal" <raices_regias@...>
wrote:

> I really doubt that this is an accurate
> interpretation or a widespread
> practice even in the old days.  "Guardar reposo por
> 40 días" or
> resting for 40 days wasn't supposed to be taken that
> the mother should
> stay in bed, not taking a bath, etc. rather that she
> should "keep the
> husband away from her bed for 40 days", if you know
> what I mean...  
> 
> Victor
> 
> --- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, Irma GomezLucero
> <igomezlucero@c...>
> wrote:
> > I recall telling my mom & aunt about a family
> baptism record having the
> > wrong information.  They  informed the same about
> the mother not
> attending
> > her own child's baptism.  The mother stayed in
> bed, had chicken
> soup, and
> > didn't bathe for 40 days!   It used to be the
> belief that a child
> needed to
> > be baptized right away within a few days of birth.
>  Since the mother
> needed
> > to "Guardar reposo" for 40 days, she was unable to
> attend the
> baptism.  The
> > father did go with the godparents in our
> experience.  My father even
> had to
> > hire someone to take care of my mother after my
> oldest sister's
> birth.  This
> > lady cared for my mom, and their home during these
> 40 days which was
> a real
> > financial drain on them at the time.  I guess he
> had to go to work, and
> > couldn't care for her & the baby.  I met the
> elderly lady on my last
> visit
> > to Mexico with my dad.    My mother only attended
> her children's
> baptisms
> > when she immigrated to the U.S.
> > Irma
> > 
> >   _____  
> 
> 
> 
> 


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Can you think of a better way to keep the husband out of the bed for 
40 days then no bathing or getting up??  It was what my gr-
grandmothers from both Jalisco (1884) and Zacatecas (1866)passed on as 
tradition to me.  My grandmothers also said it was the only time in 
their marriages that they actually got any rest!
Linda from Wa.

Alice, 

Thanks for sharing that experience.  I'm surprised that such a belief
would be taken in a such a literal way.  Staying in bed for 40 days is
definitely bad for one's health, let alone personal attraction.  Just
imagine the potential for bed sores, leg thrombosis,  and possibly
septicemia for not taking a bath, etc.  No wonder there was so much
maternal mortality in the old days.

But I found a link to an old document that actually speaks about that,
except that it was a custom practiced by the Assyrians during the rule
of the Ottoman Turks in Turkey.  Go here and do a search for "40 days" 

http://www.aina.org/books/aov.htm

Victor


--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, Alicia Carrillo <alliecar@p...> wrote:
> Victor,
>  
> It definitely meant do not bathe for 40 days, it also meant do not
let the outside air hit the mother for 40 days.
>  
> When I had my first daughter I remember a tia telling me and I
quote. "Hija, cuando tengas tu bebe´ no dejes que te den un baño o
ducha". She then proceeded to tell me that when she had her children
here in the US they tried to make her bathe and she pretended to go
through the motions in the shower but she never let the water touch
her. She would just turn on the water in the shower to make them
believe she had taken a shower. I asked many questions because this
was foreign to me. That´s when she told me that it was bad for the
mother´s health and that the mother´s milk would dry up if she did,
this in addition to keeping the spouse away for 40 days. My thoughts
were of course if you don't bathe you will keep everyone away for 40 days.
>  
> Alicia Carrillo
> San Jose, Ca
> 

I really doubt that this is an accurate interpretation or a widespread
practice even in the old days.  "Guardar reposo por 40 días" or
resting for 40 days wasn't supposed to be taken that the mother should
stay in bed, not taking a bath, etc. rather that she should "keep the
husband away from her bed for 40 days", if you know what I mean...  

Victor

--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, Irma GomezLucero <igomezlucero@c...>
wrote:
> I recall telling my mom & aunt about a family baptism record having the
> wrong information.  They  informed the same about the mother not
attending
> her own child's baptism.  The mother stayed in bed, had chicken
soup, and
> didn't bathe for 40 days!   It used to be the belief that a child
needed to
> be baptized right away within a few days of birth.  Since the mother
needed
> to "Guardar reposo" for 40 days, she was unable to attend the
baptism.  The
> father did go with the godparents in our experience.  My father even
had to
> hire someone to take care of my mother after my oldest sister's
birth.  This
> lady cared for my mom, and their home during these 40 days which was
a real
> financial drain on them at the time.  I guess he had to go to work, and
> couldn't care for her & the baby.  I met the elderly lady on my last
visit
> to Mexico with my dad.    My mother only attended her children's
baptisms
> when she immigrated to the U.S.
> Irma
> 
>   _____  

Arturo Ramos wrote:

The problem with everybody hosting data on their own sites is that it
is not possible to make it freely available to members and keep it
from being accessible to the public in general.

yup

 The Rootsweb web
space is simply to put up informational information.  I don't think
they have facilities to have member-restricted file access, etc.  They
don't allow any scripts--only static pages on the site...

Though, Joseph, it would probably be worthwhile putting up a page for
our group there that then leads people back here so that we can use it
to possibly recruit new members.

I'm not wanting to wholesale attract rootsweb people. We are 95 members
strong. We could be 150 strong in 6 months if 1/2 of us picked one or
two people to recruit from rootsweb who gave the strong impression of
being very very serious. None of this "do you know Maria Garcia from
Zacatecas? If so send me her whole genealogy. . .thanks in advance" kind
of people.

so if the mother was in bed and the father was off doing war or work
then no one for the family except the padrinos were there to tell the
story. . .hmmmm, this makes good sense now.

thanks,

joseph

ps: where did you get the "Mothers were never at baptisms since the
custom was for her to stay in bed for 40 days.. " information?

Erlinda Castanon-Long wrote:

Many times information was being given by other members of the party
at the church who did not know who parents or grandparents were,
especially if the people were deceased or the family had moved.

Mothers were never at baptisms since the custom was for her to stay in
bed for 40 days.. that meant that someone else had to give her family
info and they were often wrong if there had been a remarriage after
the death of the first wife, her mother, for instance..

Linda from Wa.






Yahoo! Groups Links

The problem with everybody hosting data on their own sites is that it
is not possible to make it freely available to members and keep it
from being accessible to the public in general.  The Rootsweb web
space is simply to put up informational information.  I don't think
they have facilities to have member-restricted file access, etc.  They
don't allow any scripts--only static pages on the site...

Though, Joseph, it would probably be worthwhile putting up a page for
our group there that then leads people back here so that we can use it
to possibly recruit new members.

Would people be willing to do a site on a donation basis?

--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "readysetgo95814" <nena@a...> wrote:
> I agree with John and Steven.  Free web space is available 
> elsewhere.  One such site is Rootsweb.  For individual accounts see:  
> http://accounts.rootsweb.com/index.cgi?op=show&page=freagree.htm
> 
> They also have an option for genealogical societies (such as ours) 
> that will give you free space to operate a website.  See:  
> http://accounts.rootsweb.com/index.cgi?op=show&page=gensoc.htm
> 
> If Joseph agrees to be the webmaster this would be a good option for 
> us.
> 
> Another option is your own Internet Service Provider.  Most allow you 
> a certain amount of space to host your own site, but I know some 
> people might be less technical and find this to be more challenging.
> 
> Maria
>  
> --- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, Joseph Puentes <makas@n...> wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > John Gonzalez wrote:
> > 
> > >I believe that if a fee is required to participate in this group, 
> it 
> > >will be the end of this group as we know it.  Once you start 
> charging, 
> > >the members will become more demanding in regards as to what 
> materials 
> > >they can, and can not  post on this site. Control will be 
> lost...Think 
> > >about it.
> > >
> > >If we put our heads together, I am sure we can come up with a 
> > >solution.  I am 100% against ANY fees because of the reason 
> mentioned 
> > >above.
> > >

Many times information was being given by other members of the party 
at the church who did not know who parents or grandparents were, 
especially if the people were deceased or the family had moved.

Mothers were never at baptisms since the custom was for her to stay in 
bed for 40 days.. that meant that someone else had to give her family 
info and they were often wrong if there had been a remarriage after 
the death of the first wife, her mother, for instance..

Linda from Wa.

has anyone done study on this phrase. When the grandparents are missing
and "No supo dar razon" is inserted what exactly does that mean? That
the Son didn't know who his parents were? But if this is the case then
why would there be records before and after where they are given? Or
that he might have had a temporary case of of abnesia (sp--?). Or that
he just didn't want to disclose them?

Also I have a couple of records where only one grandparent is listed but
many more where both are given.

So what gives?

No se dar razon!

thanks,

joseph

Just as a correction...

The information can be found on the VRI and not the IGI.  The two 
databases are 90% different.  The cds contain information from the 
VRI.

As Jonathan mentioned the VRI on the website has been updated.  A 
while back I printed some information from the website and just 
recently when I looked at the same information it was slightly 
different with added information, for example a marriage record which 
previously just had the name of the Bride and Groom now also had the 
names of their parents.

- Angie


--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, Alicia Carrillo <alliecar@p...> wrote:
> Dora,
>  
> Thanks for the offer to assist in viewing or retrieving data. At 
the time I don't have any specific need. I was just wondering if this 
disk might be a valuable tool to have on hand. According to Angie 
it´s mostly the same database as can be found on the IGI with the 
exception of a few films that she identified for her area of research.
>  
> My research area at the present time is very small, Nochistlan 
Zacatecas and once I'm through with that area I move onto Jalpa 
Zacatecas, unless directed to another area by facts or data found.
>  
> Good luck in your studies. Once you have time to actively examine 
the data on the disk, if you see anything new and exciting that jumps 
out as important and unique in the disks I'm sure you´ll let us know.
>  
> Alicia Carrillo
> San Jose, CA
>

readysetgo95814 wrote:

I agree with John and Steven. Free web space is available
elsewhere. One such site is Rootsweb. For individual accounts see:
http://accounts.rootsweb.com/index.cgi?op=show&page=freagree.htm

They also have an option for genealogical societies (such as ours)
that will give you free space to operate a website.

this sounds good can someone (Arturo???) look into this. Free sounds
good to me.

See:
http://accounts.rootsweb.com/index.cgi?op=show&page=gensoc.htm

If Joseph agrees to be the webmaster this would be a good option for
us.

I don't know about that. . .I just don't have the time to do anything
but the bare minimum required here. Making the transition would require
"work" and I am just not up to it. But I will be supportive of anyone
wanting to take over the reigns of the group.
As it is I think we need someone to just take all the resources that
have been accumulated and put them on DVD. I guess that might be an
option. If someone (Arturo???) agreed to put everything on Ranchos2 on
DVD and Everything on Ranchos1 on DVD and I could so everything on
Briefcase. Then the that person could open the new location and
subscribe everyone and when it is all finished we could then pull the
plug on the Yahoo group.

In answer, to your question.  The online version of the Vital Records
Index, has more information, than the CD version.  

The CD version was published, I believe about 3 to 4 years ago.  And
it has not been updated.  Where as the Online version is being updated.  

Because, where the extraction program, from what I have been told, is
no longer submitting information, to the IGI.  The information, is
being put into the Vital Records Index.  

While some of the information is in both the IGI and the VRI.  It is
still a good idea to check both indexes.  On each one you can perform
batch searches.

thanks,
Jonathan 

--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, Alicia Carrillo <alliecar@p...> wrote:
> Has anyone in this group ordered the CD titled: Middle
America-Mexico-Vital Records Index from the Family Search Website?
>  
> This is the item # and cost and I wonder if it would be anything
different that's not on the IGI.
>  
>  The set of 4 data CD's and viewer can be purchased for $10.00
online or by calling toll free 1-800-537-5971 and asking for item
#50163. It can also be ordered on the Internet at
>  
> Thanks........Alicia

I agree with John and Steven.  Free web space is available 
elsewhere.  One such site is Rootsweb.  For individual accounts see:  
http://accounts.rootsweb.com/index.cgi?op=show&page=freagree.htm

They also have an option for genealogical societies (such as ours) 
that will give you free space to operate a website.  See:  
http://accounts.rootsweb.com/index.cgi?op=show&page=gensoc.htm

If Joseph agrees to be the webmaster this would be a good option for 
us.

Another option is your own Internet Service Provider.  Most allow you 
a certain amount of space to host your own site, but I know some 
people might be less technical and find this to be more challenging.

Maria
 
--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, Joseph Puentes <makas@n...> wrote:
> 
> 
> John Gonzalez wrote:
> 
> >I believe that if a fee is required to participate in this group, 
it 
> >will be the end of this group as we know it.  Once you start 
charging, 
> >the members will become more demanding in regards as to what 
materials 
> >they can, and can not  post on this site. Control will be 
lost...Think 
> >about it.
> >
> >If we put our heads together, I am sure we can come up with a 
> >solution.  I am 100% against ANY fees because of the reason 
mentioned 
> >above.
> >
> Another member wrote me privately and said that the answer is that 
those 
> that want more controll to modify their own folders should ask me 
to 
> remove their work off of the Ranchos site and then they could 
upload it 
> to one of the many many free sites and then just link to it in the 
links 
> area of the group. This would relieve the files area of the 
pressure its 
> under and I could open it again.
> 
> joseph
> 
> ps: You're right John. We can come up with a free 
solution.  .  .but if 
> to many really really want more control then that freedom will cost 
you 
> some cambio ($).
> 
> >
> >Just my grain of salt...
> >
> >John Gonzalez
> >Wildomar CA.  
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > 
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> > 
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >  
> >

Gee Joseph,
Sounds like you're gonna need a vacation to recover
from your vacation.  Hope you have a great time, looks
like you should.  Weather out here has been a mixed
bag lately.  I live in So. Calif., (San Gabriel
Valley), and for the past couple of weeks it's been
really hot and muggy so make sure you bring lots of
"cool" clothing.  

Buen Viaje,
Olivia 

--- Joseph Puentes <makas@...> wrote:

> I start in Oakland and stay with a sister from
> Saturday thru Sunday. 
> Monday I go to San Jose and stay with another
> sister. Wednesday morning 
> we leave for Fresno to visit relatives. Thursday we
> visit more relatives 
> in Visailia, Hanford and Riverdale. Friday we travel
> to Santa Barbara 
> and Santa Paula to visit relatives. Saturday Morning
> we leave for Long 
> Beach for a Roman Diaz family reunion that ends
> Sunday. Monday we travel 
> to San Diego to . . .yup you got it visit relatives.
> Thursday we fly 
> home. Whew. . .
> 
> joseph
> 
> Margarita Vallazza wrote:
> 
> > Whatcher gonna do in California? What's there to
> do in CA besides go 
> > to Disneyland? Marge:)
> > On Jul 21, 2005, at 2:43 AM, Joseph Puentes wrote:
> >
> >
> >     I'll be in CA from the 30 of July to Aug 11. .
> .you guys are going
> >     to be
> >     all on your own.
> >
> >     I can be reached for comment at
> makas_nc@... while I'm away.
> >
> >     joseph
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >     YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> >
> >     â?ª  Visit your group "ranchos" on the web.
> >      
> >     â?ª  To unsubscribe from this group, send an
> email to:
> >      ranchos-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >      
> >     â?ª  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> the Yahoo! Terms of
> >     Service.
> >
> >
> >
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 

Hello Alicia,

I recently ordered and received it.  It is full of
information but I have not had time to sit and sort
through it all.

Do you need something from it, specifically?  I would
be glad to assist.

Dora

PS. I am currently in the process of graduating from
college and am very busy with course work that is the
reason I currently don't have time to sit and sort
through it.  I plan to go back to it and my research
after classes end.

--- Alicia Carrillo <alliecar@...> wrote:

> Has anyone in this group ordered the CD titled:
> Middle America-Mexico-Vital Records Index from the
> Family Search Website?
>  
> This is the item # and cost and I wonder if it would
> be anything different that's not on the IGI.
>  
>  The set of 4 data CD's and viewer can be purchased
> for $10.00 online or by calling toll free
> 1-800-537-5971 and asking for item #50163. It can
> also be ordered on the Internet at
>  
> Thanks........Alicia
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 

No, the information is all contained on the website.

When I ordered the cds, I was hoping I would be able to search the data
differently then the website allows.  But I was not able to.  The
Search rules are a little more flexable but not by much.  I then
attempted to upload all the data from the cds into a PAF program and
merge families, etc...  I worked on it for months before deciding that
it was impossible!  Oh well...

Angie


--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, Joseph Puentes <makas@n...> wrote:
> is there information on those disks that is unavailable on the
> www.familysearch.org site?
>
> thanks,
>
> joseph
>