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face=Arial color=#000000 size=2> Rich and Kitty, While I have been able to find some information (with the help of others) on Herrera family tree line, I have been rather limited in finding out the Luna line from Tlaltenango. Will you visit my information and see if there are any connections? Esperanza (Lunalatina@...m),
but if you want to respond privately, I use href="mailto:Latina1955@...">Latina1955@... |
Hi Joseph, Thanks for the envy. The frustrating thing for me is that the record which identifies my ancestor as <un Yndio Piro> does not allow me to search much further. As you know indigenous people needed permission from a european to legally use a surname. I found this information in film #1156614, Bautismos de Senecú in the Juarez Cathedral Archives. I quickly looked into my copies of the microfilms and found two individuals, 4 Oct. 1793 and 11 Nov. 1793, described in the body of the text as <todos Piros> and <todos Yndios Piros> respectively. Also there's another entry describing a family as <indios de la Ysleta>. Senecú was a very diverse pueblo. Most of the entries in this film simply use the word <Yndio> but there are other designations including <Espl.>. I may buy the whole film some day. It seems that dozens of people in Senecú are related to my ancestors. The same film also includes entries from the mission at San Lorenzo del Real. Both communities were about 9 kilometers from the mission Nuestra Señora de Guadalupe del Passo del Rio del Norte. I started to look in Senecú out of curiosity. Some of my ancestors moved from the villa at Passo del Norte to Senecú. Maybe you might try the same. It took me 18 years of looking to find them (Alexo family). I haven't had the time to do any extractions for the past 8 years. June 30 is my last day of work. I plan to use my retirement to return to my research. Happy hunting don José. David -----Original Message----- From: Joseph Puentes <makas@...> Sent: Jun 24, 2005 4:23 PM To: ranchos@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [ranchos] Yndio Genizaro <html><body> <tt> <BR> <BR> David P. Delgado wrote:<BR> <BR> >I have two Chiricahua grandmothers and a Piro ggggGrandfather.<BR> ><BR> The identity of the tribes. . .you are so so so blessed in your finding <BR> of these treasured pieces of information. I think I'd trade 6 months <BR> worth of research time to find information like that. How did you find <BR> that info? Was it written right in the record? My records just use the <BR> generic Yndio. I also have roots in El Paso and I've seen some tribes <BR> mentioned by name in the records but not in mine.<BR> <BR> thanks for sharing and if you think I'm thinking of you enviously. . . <BR>
Hi Kitty Cortez
ANA has same information of Pedro Sandoval and Juana
Cortez.
1. Her Cortez Line: YGNACIO CORTES Y MARIA TERESA DE
AVILA
2. Ygnacio Rafael Cortes m. Petronila Magallanas,
3.Matias Cortes m. Maria Reducindo Arellano b. 05 MAR
1802, 4. Antonio Cortes spouse Decideria Sandoval
{parents Felix Sandoval and Francisca Sandoval}, 5.
Casimira De Jesus Cortes b. 09 MAR 1846 m. Trinidad
Cortes date: 20 JUN 1866 {his parents were #4 above.}
>From Trinidad and Casimira: Epifania Cortes Cortes
m.1911 had son Jose Refugio Arellano 19 MAR 1912 who
married Teresa Luna Lamas.
The luna Line; Bonifacio b 1877 spouse Romalda Lamas:
Cruz de Luna b. 19 JUL 1840 m. 23 APR 1863 to Pilar
Sandoval b. 11 OCT 1839{parents: Jose Filomeno
Sandoval and spouse Ana Huizar}: Yldefonso de Luna and
his Estefana Gonzales: Victor de Luna 06 MAR 1776:
etc, etc....to Bartolome De Luna 1620 his spouse
Lorenza De Haro b. 17 OCT 1630
jose munoz
--- Kitty Cortez <kcortez@...> wrote:
> Jose Munoz,
> check out the files section for Rich and Kitty
> Cortez under SANDOVAL,
> Francisco. We also have Cortes and Sandoval in
> the Tlaltenango area. Do
> we have a connection with your wife?
>
>
> 2. Pedro SANDOVAL (Francisco de).
>
> Pedro married2 (1) Juana CORTES daughter of Juan
> CORTES and Maria PONSE on
> 3 Jun 1709 in Tlaltenango, Zacatecas.
>
>
>
> Pedro Sandoval and Juana Cortes have a daughter
> Ysabel Gregoria SANDOVAL
> Cortes b. 15Dec1715doc, married 10 Nov 1736 doc to
> Antonio de Vargas
> CASTANEDA. We follow Ysabel's brother Joseph
> Geronimo SANDOVAL's line. He
> was born 5 Jun 1626doc, married 27 Dec 1770doc to
> Teodora Rosalia GONZALES
> Mendes. Joseph Geronimo Sandoval's first wife was
> Juana Maria Mojarra.
>
>
>
> We also have Luna from Tlaltenango, Zac, but I don't
> find the Luna
> connection with our Cortes/Sandoval line.
>
>
>
> Are we cousins?
>
>
>
> Rich and Kitty Cortez
>
> Rocklin, CA
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.8.0/27 -
> Release Date: 6/23/2005
>
>
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses. David P. Delgado wrote:
I have two Chiricahua grandmothers and a Piro ggggGrandfather.
The identity of the tribes. . .you are so so so blessed in your finding
of these treasured pieces of information. I think I'd trade 6 months
worth of research time to find information like that. How did you find
that info? Was it written right in the record? My records just use the
generic Yndio. I also have roots in El Paso and I've seen some tribes
mentioned by name in the records but not in mine.
thanks for sharing and if you think I'm thinking of you enviously. . .
.well yes I am. I'm happy for you, but yes I want to be happy for me too!
joseph
Hello and Welcome Jose, I know exactly how you feel. I too was born and raised in the US and have found that while I am here in the US many people ask me where I am from and I say I am from the US. They do not accept that response, when I say that I am Mexican they say, "OH, Yes. I see it in you." Now when I am in Mexico I am confronted with the same from Mexican citizens. They ask me where I am from and do not accept my response that I am from Zacatecas. They tell me that I speak with an accent and that I am not from Mexico. I tell them that I was born in the US and they say, "Si, claro, eres Chicana." I guess I can say like La India Maria, NO soy ni de aqui ni de alla. Then i like to quote Selena Quintanilla's father, Abraham, when he told her that "When we are in the US we (Mexican-Americans) have to be more American than the Americans to be accepted and when we are in Mexico, we need to be more Mexican than the Mexicans." I don't know where I was going with that. I do want to ask you, however, about your ancestors from Villa De Cos. May I ask whom they were and how far away they lived from Hacienda El Mezquite, Zacatecas. I have ancestors that lived (and possibly worked) in this Hacienda. I know that Villa de Cos is very close to SLP. Hacienda El Mezquite is in between Fresnillo and Villa de Cos. Dora --- jose munoz <jmunoz2781@...> wrote: > I'm new to this group and read many of the groups > messages.. In my family lines there were hijo and > hijas naturales along with hijo/hijas legitimos. For > example 3 naturals out of family 12. I have a copy > of > the Church Marriage Record.... so why a natural > baptism for 3 of them. I have a gggrandfather > baptized > as a Don? Why at birth is someone named a don? Heir > apparent? Laborers, Sirvientes, miners. > > I have a family line who think they are French. Why? > Because of Grandma's Green eyes! The truth of the > matters is they can not accept the fact they are > Indian decent mixed with espanoles. > > I'm Mexican, born and raised in the U.S., and I'm > proud to be Mexican. My 4th greatgrandfather was > espanol. His brothers and sisters married > espanoles/las. But Ysidro Munoz married an Yndia. My > 3th Great, Roque Munoz 1760, a mestizo was at times > recorded on Bautismo records as espanol, coyote, and > lobo? Why such a thing? They were from Rancho de > Banon, Zac., 2nd great Francisco Munoz 1786 a
>> "Mexican
>>genealogy is like a
>>big bowl of tamales, you never know what you're
>>gonna get". You may
>>pull out a pork tamale, or beef, or cheese, beans,
>>coconut, sugar and
>>raisins.....
>>
Raisin Tamales. . .I thought my mom was the only one that made these.
Boy could I eat a dozen by myself right now (but not all Raisin). I
guess I'd have to say that Pork with lots of "gordo" on the meat are my
favorite. but I can't eat Tamales that have been cooked, cooled, frozen
and warmed up [well I guess I could]. I have to have mine fresh cooked.
Boy are they good.
I'd say that Tamales are my favorite food, then again I think I'd rather
have a big bowl of Menudo with lots of chopped onion, some oregano,
cilantro, and lemon juice and a tall pile of flour
tortillas (fresh made).
Can the next person flying to North Carolina bring me some tamales?
Solito aqui en Carolina del Norte,
joseph
ps: my mom's mom was from Jalisco. That is how this discussion of
Tamales fits in and stays on topic!
>>
>>
>
>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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"Mexicangenealogy is like a
big bowl of tamales, you never know what you're
gonna get". You may
pull out a pork tamale, or beef, or cheese, beans,
coconut, sugar and
raisins.....
Raisin Tamales. . .I thought my mom was the only one that made these.
Boy could I eat a dozen by myself right now (but not all Raisin). I
guess I'd have to say that Pork with lots of "gordo" on the meat are my
favorite. but I can't eat Tamales that have been cooked, cooled, frozen
and warmed up [well I guess I could]. I have to have mine fresh cooked.
Boy are they good.
I'd say that Tamales are my favorite food, then again I think I'd rather
have a big bowl of Menudo with lots of chopped onion, some oregano,
cilantro, and lemon juice and a tall pile of flour tortillas (fresh made).
Can the next person flying to North Carolina bring me some tamales? Solito aqui en Carolina del Norte, joseph
ps: my mom's mom was from Jalisco. That is how this discussion of
Tamales fits in and stays on topic!
This is my dead end with the Avila/Sandoval branch of our family.
HUSBAND: Miguel Avila WIFE: Carmen Sandoval
: CHILDREN
1 | Name: Felix De Avila
bir: 1804
| mar: 28 Feb. 1824 Villa Del Refugio, Zacatecas, MEXICO
to: Fabiana Salamanca
| Father: Miguel Avila
Mother : Carmen Sandoval
2 | Name: Maria Eufracia Avila Sandobal
F | chrr: 20 Mar 1782 Villa Del Refugio, Zacatecas, MEXICO
3 Name: Maria Josefa Fermina Avila Sandoval
F chrr 17 Jul 1790 Villa Del
Refugio, Zacatecas
4 Name Maria Margarita Avila Sandobal
F chrr 28 oct. 1797 Villa Del
Refugio, Zacatecas
5 Name Jose Casildo Avila Sandobal
M chrr 11 Apr 1803 Villa Del
Refugio, Zacatecas
6 Name: Maria Luiza Avila Sandobal F chrr: 01 Sept 1805 Tayahua, Zacatecas _________________________________________________________________
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When a child is born as a result of rape and the woman's family treats |
Hi, Marge, Yes, at first I thought "tarayata" was an Indian tribe because it does sound like "taraumara". Emilie
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Irma, yes, well said. Oh, I forgot to say that my Spanish friend did allude to the fact that when the Moors and Jews were kicked out of Spain, Spain went to pot. When I asked her how so, she said the Jews and Arabs were advanced civilizations who founded the universities in Spain, etc. And a funny thing happened to her (well, she and I thought it funny at the time): we went into a gift shop up here in Bremerton WA once to window shop their Peruvian things, and it was run by an obvious descendant of the Incas. When he heard my friend's fancy Castilian accent, he really lit into her! He started off with "Oh, so you are Espanola. Do you know what your people did to mine?" He proceeded to tell her off royally, listing all the injuries the conquistadores had heaped on his people. She just said simply, "Well, I personally did not do those things", but he kept on and not only suggested that an apology from her people was in order, but that they should make restitution. I guess he thinks the Spaniards should send back all that gold, ha, ha. She did not apologize for her people, did not buy a thing (she wasn't about to give him any of her gold), whereas I (I have a black belt in shopping) dropped almost $100.00 in there. He made me feel so guilty about my Spanish blood, what there is of it. Saludos, Emilie
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Peggy, I took at look at familysearch.org site and found some information for you. Here is the Christening extract for Maria de las Nieves Mojarro: Maria de Las Nieves <MOJARRO ESTRADA> Sex: F Event(s): Christening: 16 Aug 1813 Place: Tlaltenango de Sanchez Roman, Zacatecas, Mexico Parents: Father: Silverio MOJARRO Mother: Juliana ESTRADA Grandparents: Father's Father: Juan MOJARRO Father's Mother: Maria Dolores GONZALES Mother's Father: Jose ESTRADA Mother's Mother: Juana Maria Source Information: Batch Number: C607124 Source Dates: 1809 - 1818 Film or Fiche Number: 443811 Collection Details: Catolica Here are some more Mojarro Estrada children, ie siblings to Maria Nieves: +Jose Paulin MOJARRO NUNES Gender: M Birth/Christening: 22 Jun 1817 Tlaltenango de Sanchez Roman, Zacatecas, Mexico +MARIA CLEMENCIA MOJARRO ESTRADA Gender: Female Christening: 23 NOV 1819 Tlaltenango De Sanchez Roman, Zacatecas, Mexico +JUAN JOSE MOJARRO ESTRADA Gender: Male Christening: 29 JUN 1821 Tlaltenango De Sanchez Roman, Zacatecas, Mexico Here is the christening extract for Silverio Mojarro: JUAN SILVERIO MOJARRO GONZALES Male Event(s): Birth: 08 JUL 1763 Christening: 25 JUL 1763 Tepechitlan, Zacatecas, Mexico Parents: Father: JUAN MOJARRO Mother: MARIA DOLORES GONZALES Messages: Extracted birth or christening record for the locality listed in the record. The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the birth or christening date. Source Information: Batch No.: Dates: Source Call No.: C600811 1736 - 1782 0444025 Here is some more Mojarro Gonzales children: +JUAN FRANCISCO MOJARRO Gender: Male Christening: 25 MAY 1753 Tepechitlan, Zacatecas, Mexico +MARIA FRANCISCO MOJARRO GONZALES Gender: Female Christening: 19 MAR 1760 Tepechitlan, Zacatecas, Mexico +MARSELINA RAPHAELA MOJARRO Gender: Female Christening: 10 MAY 1767 Tepechitlan, Zacatecas, Mexico +MIGUEL ANTTONIO MOJARRO GONZALES Gender: Male Christening: 19 MAY 1771 Tepechitlan, Zacatecas, Mexico Good luck on your search, Angie --- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "Peggy Delgado" <peggydee@c...> wrote: > Rich and Kitty, do you have any more "Mojarra" lines in Tlaltenango? I have > one: > Silverio Mojarro married to Juliana Estrada. The date, I don't know, but > they had a child, a girl, named Maria de las Nieves Mojarro, born on > 08/13/1813.
|
Dear Joseph: Saludos. Although you will have many people of color (Arabs, Blacks I would be honored if you post the article I wrote entitled Buenas Suerte, |
Joseph, NO, my mother was not from South America. She was a "manita" from New Mexico, part of the 500-year-old gene pool from Juarez-New Mexico. (That is why I joined your Ciudad-Juarez group). They are a breed all their own, since they were isolated in the northern reaches of the Spanish Mexican empire. They spoke Spanish with their own 16th century dialect, etc, until my mother's generation, and besides having Piro-Manso-Tewa blood, they were thought to be Sephardic Jews in hiding. All I can think of is that being of Basque descendancy from Zacatecas, my father's people may have used an old Basque word that was taken to South America by other Basque immigrants to other parts of the New World. I will post messages to both the Peruvian website and the Spanish Basque website and ask about the word "tarayata". One strange thing---I have recently begun to get unsolicitated e-mails from the Basque Separatists in Spain. I think they have trolled the internet and contacted everyone who has posted messages to boards for surnames they know are Basque. They have a very strange language. They intersperse their language with Spanish, as if I knew what it meant. Go figure. Emilie Garcia Port Orchard, WA
|
Good information. If you have ever read a list of the first settlers that the Spanish sent, you'll see a cross section of many Europeans, north Africans, and some Asians (mostly Filipinos), that evenly mixed together and with the local inhabitants (Indians). We are a composite of many peoples. Alberto. --- Victor Villarreal <vela_este@...> wrote: > I join you, Alicia, in welcoming Joseph's "tocayo" > José. > > I don't know if you've heard this one, which I > learned thru a > friend. Paraphrasing Forrest Gump's memorable > quote: "life is like a > box of chocolates...", our new quote is "Mexican > genealogy is like a > big bowl of tamales, you never know what you're > gonna get". You may > pull out a pork tamale, or beef, or cheese, beans, > coconut, sugar and > raisins..... > > Victor > > --- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, Alicia Carrillo > <alliecar@p...> wrote: > > So well put Jose Munoz and welcome to this group. > > > > I believe that anyone who is searching for their > roots in Mexico > has to be open minded. One can't believe that we're > 100% this or 100% > that. Just by virtue of the fact that we have or are > descendants from > Mexico a land that was invaded by Europeans less > than 5 centuries > ago. A land that was populated by many proud Indian > tribes with such > rich cultures, languages and history. A land that > because of it's > riches was invaded, pilfered, raided, raped, > converted and yes even > conquered. A country that experienced slavery and > servitude. An > Indian nation that fought to keep it's lands, > languages, customs and > religions but was ultimately defeated through > disease, wars and > greed. How can we not believe that we might be > Spanish, Indian, > mestizo, African, Jewish, Sephardic, Moor, Irish, > French and who > knows what else we may find. > > > > That's the joy and the challenge of geneaology, to > keep an open > mind, to evaluate the documents with a little bit of > skepticism and a > little bit of joy at each new finding. To continue > to learn, to ask > the questions that need to be asked and yes, even to > look into our > DNA and let the evidence speak to us and be mindful > and respectful > off all those that came before us whether it's what > we expected or
style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 28.05pt; TEXT-INDENT: -28.05pt; tab-stops: right 26.6pt left 28.05pt; mso-layout-grid-align: none">
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: ' Microsoft Sans Serif'; mso-bidi-font-family: ' Microsoft Sans Serif'">2.
style="mso-tab-count: 1"> Pedro SANDOVAL
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> (Francisco de).
style="FONT-FAMILY: ' Microsoft Sans Serif'">
"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />
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style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: ' Microsoft Sans Serif'; mso-bidi-font-family: ' Microsoft Sans Serif'">Pedro
married2 (1) Juana
CORTES daughter of Juan CORTES
and Maria PONSE on 3 Jun 1709 in Tlaltenango, Zacatecas.
style="FONT-FAMILY: ' Microsoft Sans Serif'">
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I join you, Alicia, in welcoming Joseph's "tocayo" José. I don't know if you've heard this one, which I learned thru a friend. Paraphrasing Forrest Gump's memorable quote: "life is like a box of chocolates...", our new quote is "Mexican genealogy is like a big bowl of tamales, you never know what you're gonna get". You may pull out a pork tamale, or beef, or cheese, beans, coconut, sugar and raisins..... Victor --- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, Alicia Carrillo <alliecar@p...> wrote: > So well put Jose Munoz and welcome to this group. > > I believe that anyone who is searching for their roots in Mexico has to be open minded. One can't believe that we're 100% this or 100% that. Just by virtue of the fact that we have or are descendants from Mexico a land that was invaded by Europeans less than 5 centuries ago. A land that was populated by many proud Indian tribes with such rich cultures, languages and history. A land that because of it's riches was invaded, pilfered, raided, raped, converted and yes even conquered. A country that experienced slavery and servitude. An Indian nation that fought to keep it's lands, languages, customs and religions but was ultimately defeated through disease, wars and greed. How can we not believe that we might be Spanish, Indian, mestizo, African, Jewish, Sephardic, Moor, Irish, French and who knows what else we may find. > > That's the joy and the challenge of geneaology, to keep an open mind, to evaluate the documents with a little bit of skepticism and a little bit of joy at each new finding. To continue to learn, to ask the questions that need to be asked and yes, even to look into our DNA and let the evidence speak to us and be mindful and respectful off all those that came before us whether it's what we expected or not. > > That's a little piece of my mind and I'm not budging..............Happy Hunting.......Alicia >
|
Hey as far as I'm concerned I'm just a group member. the only rule is
|
I'm new to this group and read many of the groups
messages.. In my family lines there were hijo and
hijas naturales along with hijo/hijas legitimos. For
example 3 naturals out of family 12. I have a copy of
the Church Marriage Record.... so why a natural
baptism for 3 of them. I have a gggrandfather baptized
as a Don? Why at birth is someone named a don? Heir
apparent? Laborers, Sirvientes, miners.
I have a family line who think they are French. Why?
Because of Grandma's Green eyes! The truth of the
matters is they can not accept the fact they are
Indian decent mixed with espanoles.
I'm Mexican, born and raised in the U.S., and I'm
proud to be Mexican. My 4th greatgrandfather was
espanol. His brothers and sisters married
espanoles/las. But Ysidro Munoz married an Yndia. My
3th Great, Roque Munoz 1760, a mestizo was at times
recorded on Bautismo records as espanol, coyote, and
lobo? Why such a thing? They were from Rancho de
Banon, Zac., 2nd great Francisco Munoz 1786 a mestizo,
from Hacienda de Grunidora, 1st great Teofilo Munoz
1817, from Hacienda Grunidora, SLP, no race given, and
my granfather Jose Angel Munoz Ybarra 1886, Hacienda
De Solis, SLP, my line from 3rd marriage of
Teofilo{age 69.. yes age 69}. My father Elpidio Munoz
b. 1906 Hacienda de Solis, SLP. This is why I'm
Mexican. My roots...
Me: MUNOZ,YBARRA,TRISTAN,GALVAN...Villa de Cos, San
Cosme, Burgo de San Cosme, Zacatecas. Grunidora,
Hacienda Solis...SLP
My spouse: LUNA, ARELLANO, CORTEZ, CORREA, SANDOVAL,
CASTANEDA: Tlaltenango, Tepechitlan, Teul, Florencia,
La Estancia, Cerro de Pantano
We have done our homework and research for nearly ten
years. We still want to learn and share.
Jose Munoz
--- Margarita Vallazza <TeaCozyGran@...> wrote:
> Rock on, Carol!!!:) Marge:)
>
>
> On Jun 23, 2005, at 8:26 PM, Carol Lester wrote:
>
> > I think it is so very sad that people can spend so
> much time "talking"
> > about something they cannot change...and perhaps
> if we would read the
> > Word of God and apply His principle of "seeing
> each other as HE sees
> > us, there would never be an on-going conversation
> such as is taking
> > place with the Ranchos group. As one very wise
> "human" was
> > paraphrased once long ago.."me thinks you all
> protest too much..."
> > Come on, really, what does it matter anyway? My
> final thought...love