TEST SITE - DO NOT USE - Development only

Perhaps, the best I may recommend is taking an interpreter, maybe a 
relative or a friend who speaks spanish, with you. Something  that I 
want to add about the phone calls, well, I don't know if this applies 
to all ranchos in Jalisco, but I believe that in some small pueblos 
people may be suspicious about giving information to a stranger on 
the phone. Joseph, can you tell us if you have had people reluctant 
or even hostile while asking for their ancestors' info? The idea of 
calling people is acceptable, but I would rather go to the pueblo and 
talk to the posible primos in person. Well that is my opinion based 
on my own experience. I grew up in Zacoalco and noticed that 
Jaliscienses (or jalisquillos as we are sometimes called), are at 
first a little bit suspicious of foreigners but as we get to know 
them, we are friendly to everyone. Some americans and italians living 
in the area visit my parents' restaurant every once in a while and 
even though my dad does not speak any english or italian, he always 
tries to be the best host he can be.

Steve


--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, craigtwatson@a... wrote:
> What can be done about those that don't speak the language?  I am  
such a 
> person.  It will be difficult to research the family by making 
calls  etc.  Even 
> if I visited the parish where my greatgrandfather attended, I  
wouldn't be 
> able to ask to see burial records, grave records, christenings'  
etc.
>  
> Irene Garrett Watson

Very good!  In fact, I'm going to use it.

Alberto.
--- Joseph Puentes <makas@...> wrote:

> well, speaking spanish is a must. I didn't say
> speaking fluently but 
> near fluency is a must.
> 
> =============================
> 
> I just tell whoever answers that My name is Joseph
> Puentes and that I'm 
> calling all the Puente and Puentes' in the phone
> book to see if maybe we 
> are distantly related. I go on to say I'm a
> genealogist and have traced 
> the family back to 1730. Tracing my family history
> gives me great 
> enjoyment and I would be glad to share that
> information if i can make a 
> connection between our families. I tell them I think
> we're related 
> because most of the Puentes from [that area] are
> related one way or 
> another.
> 
> if the person answering is young then I ask if maybe
> their parents or 
> grandparents are available to speak with. I also
> make sure to ask if 
> anyone in the family is interested in remembering
> the history of the 
> family, remember the names, or are intereste in
> making the genealogy tree.
> 
> I go on to tell them my parents and grandparents
> names and make them 
> understand that it was my grandparents that were
> born in the Rancho. I 
> try to get across that genealogy is not easy and it
> will take a little 
> bit of an investigation to see if our families come
> from the same tree 
> and that they should be patient.
> 
> ==============================
> 
> "Yo me llamo Jose Puentes y estoy llamando todo los
> Puente y Puentes en 
> el libro de telefono para ver si somos parientes
> lejanos. Soy 
> Genealogista y he hayado las rutas de mi rama de
> Puentes atras hasta 
> 1730. Estudiando la historia de mi familia me
> encanta y gustaria mucho 
> mandarte toda esta informacion si puedo hacer el
> conneccion con nuestras 
> familias. Pienso que somos parientes porque todo los
> Puentes de Santa 
> Maria de Los Angeles son parientes en un modo o
> otro.
> 
> Puedo preguntar si sus padres o abuelos estan en
> casa?  Hay personas en 
> la familia que se acuerden los nombres y conocen el
> arbol de la familia 
> o tienen interes en hacer un arbol?
> 
> Mis padres se llaman Antonio Puentes y Louisa Perez.
> Pero mis abuelos 
> fueron los que estaban nacidos en Jalisco. Ellos se

Is there anyone in the group that is just starting off in their
genealogy search and feeling kind of lost? Are you not sure how to
proceed? Are you in need of some ideas of where to and what to search?
This group is not only for the advanced and midlevel researcher but also
and especially for the beginner. Remember the only requirements for the
group are to do your own research and submit your genealogy. So being a
beginner and serious fits that description and you need to ask your
questions and get started. There are some very talented people in this
group and if you ask your questions I will learn along with you as they
answer.

joseph

===============

Hay alguien en el grupo que es nuevo a la genealogia. . .alguien que se
siente poco perdido en la buscadera? Si necesitas ideas de que or donde
hacer su
investigacion mandanos sus preguntas. Este grupo no es nomas
para los Mas Mejores y los Medianos de genealogistas pero tambien quiero
decir especialmente para los que son nuevos a la genealogia. Aquerdence
que nomas hay dos cosas que tienen que hacer: 1) Usted tiene que hacer
su trabajo en su arbol y 2) mandar su trabajo al grupo.
Si eres Nuevo a la genealogia y necesitas un pocos de ayuda nomas manda
sus preguntas. En el grupo hay personas con mucha experiencia y cuando
mandas sus preguntas yo tambien puedo apprender con tigo cuando ellos
contestan.

joseph

Is there anyone in the group that is just starting off in their
genealogy search and feeling kind of lost? Are you not sure how to
proceed? Are you in need of some ideas of where to and what to search?
This group is not only for the advanced and midlevel researcher but also
and especially for the beginner. Remember the only requirements for the
group are to do your own research and submit your genealogy. So being a
beginner and serious fits that description and you need to ask your
questions and get started. There are some very talented people in this
group and if you ask your questions I will learn along with you as they
answer.

joseph

===============

Hay alguien en el grupo que es nuevo a la genealogia. . .alguien que se
siente poco perdido en la buscadera? Si necesitas ideas de que or donde
hacer su investigacion mandanos sus preguntas. Este grupo no es nomas
para los Mas Mejores y los Medianos de genealogistas pero tambien quiero
decir especialmente para los que son nuevos a la genealogia. Aquerdence
que nomas hay dos cosas que tienen que hacer: 1) Usted tiene que hacer
su trabajo en su arbol y 2) mandar su trabajo al grupo.
Si eres Nuevo a la genealogia y necesitas un pocos de ayuda nomas manda
sus preguntas. En el grupo hay personas con mucha experiencia y cuando
mandas sus preguntas yo tambien puedo apprender con tigo cuando ellos
contestan.

joseph

Thanks to everyone who entered their information.  I think it will 
become very benificial to all of us.

What I think is good about the database is that when you open it up, 
you are given that "Search This Table" input box.  If you type in a 
surname or a location, it lists out all the people searching that 
surname and or location.  A very useful feature, be sure to try it.

The fields in the table are:
Name
Email Address    {optional}
Research Surnames    {Surnames you are researching.}
Research Location    {Cities, Towns, Ranchos that your ancestors are 
from.}
My Location    {Your current location - optional}

So once you are on the database page you just select the 'Add Record' 
link.  Enter your information.  Then select the 'Add Record' button.  
You should then be able to see your record in the table.  The edit 
link will allow you to modify your record at any time.

That should do it...

Thanks,
Angie

P.S.  Isn't it kind of convenient that my record shows up first.  I, 
of course, planned it that way... ;-)


--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, Joseph Puentes <makas@n...> wrote:
> 
> Okay folks we have 84 members and 32 entries in the Database "Who's 
> Who." Angie Godina went to a lot of trouble to establish this 
database 
> and I think it will really help for a quick one stop look at who is 
> researching in a particular area.
> 
> So why not have a look in the Database under Who's Who and fill in 
your 
> entry. If you have trouble ask your questions If I can't answer I'm 
sure 
> our creator will.
> 
> [note: Participation in this database is not absolutely required. 
So 
> don't anybody go and get nervous about me taking out my Axe if you 
don't 
> comply!]
> 
> Since the topic of My Axe has come up. . . .
> 
> 8^)  joseph
> 
> ps: I'm going to ask Angie [Angie Are you listening?] if she can 
make up 
> a form letter detailing how to enter your data into the Database. 
I'm 
> going to couple these instructions with an encouragement letter and 
send 
> it to the group on a monthly basis. that way the old vatos in the 
group 
> will constantly be pestered and the jovenes will have an 
opportunity to 
> comply.

--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, Joseph Puentes <makas@n...> wrote:
> 
> (Start of message truncated)
>
> Bear in mind that my spanish is "shaky." There are others in the 
group 
> whose spanish is much more fluent. How about some of you taking 
what I 
> said and cleaning up the Spanish. give us a more "refined" way of 
saying 
> what I said. Show us how to say the same thing without broadcasting 
to 
> the world. . .I'm not a native speaker of Spanish ANYMORE!
> 
> 

Spanish is my native tongue and, as you know, I live in México, José, 
so I took your suggestion and revised your script.  Hope it helps!

Here it is:

Buenos(as) (días | tardes | noches), me llamo José Puentes y le hablo 
desde (your place).  
Yo me dedico a la genealogía y he investigado el origen del apellido 
Puentes hasta el año de 1730 en Jalisco (y/o Zacatecas).  Encontré su 
número de teléfono en el directorio en la lista de los Puente(s).  
¿Podría hablar con el Señor o la Señora Puentes, por favor?

(Hopefully you'll get someone with your surname here or they will 
simply say something like "El habla" or "Ella habla". )

Gracias.  Mis abuelos nacieron en Jalisco, (be more specific if you 
know the town)  a finales de 18??, pero mis padres emigraron a los 
Estados Unidos en 19??.  Yo estoy investigando el arbol genealógico 
de la familia Puentes de Jalisco y hasta hoy los datos que he 
encontrado llegan hasta el año de 17??.  Creo que su familia podría 
estar relacionada con este árbol genealógico.  

Me gustaría enviarle por correo una copia de las generaciones de la 
familia Puentes para que vea si encuentra nombres de algún familiar 
que usted conozca.  (This is important so they know that you're doing 
and giving them something first.)  También me encantaría saber si 
usted tiene alguna información sobre sus antepasados, como por 
ejemplo, los nombres de sus abuelos y bisabuelos; en que pueblo 
nacieron, en que fechas, etcétera.  

Si no le molesta, le puedo escribir a la dirección que usted me diga 
o si alguien en su familia tiene correo electrónico (email) también 
se lo puedo enviar allí.  

----------------------------------------------------

If you get a mailing address here you can count this as a success.  
>From here and on you have to improvise a little depending on how 
enthusiast their response has been.  If you get their attention and 
interest it won't matter if you don't speak perfect Spanish.  Just 

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the ranchos 
group.

  File        : /Arturo Romero's Ancestors (arturoromero@...)/Juan Jose Gregorio Nava.rtf 
  Uploaded by : conquistador1960 <arturoromero@...> 
  Description : Descendants of Juan Jose Gregorio Nava 

You can access this file at the URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ranchos/files/Arturo%20Romero%27s%20Ancestors%20%28arturoromero%40earthlink.net%29/Juan%20Jose%20Gregorio%20Nava.rtf 

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

Regards,

conquistador1960 <arturoromero@...>
 

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the ranchos 
group.

  File        : /Arturo Romero's Ancestors (arturoromero@...)/Descendants of Francisca Romero.rtf 
  Uploaded by : conquistador1960 <arturoromero@...> 
  Description : Descendants of Francisca Romero 

You can access this file at the URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ranchos/files/Arturo%20Romero%27s%20Ancestors%20%28arturoromero%40earthlink.net%29/Descendants%20of%20Francisca%20Romero.rtf 

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

Regards,

conquistador1960 <arturoromero@...>
 

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the ranchos 
group.

  File        : /Arturo Romero's Ancestors (arturoromero@...)/Blas Candelario Pinedo.rtf 
  Uploaded by : conquistador1960 <arturoromero@...> 
  Description : Descendants Of Blas Candelario Pinedo 

You can access this file at the URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ranchos/files/Arturo%20Romero%27s%20Ancestors%20%28arturoromero%40earthlink.net%29/Blas%20Candelario%20Pinedo.rtf 

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

Regards,

conquistador1960 <arturoromero@...>
 

Okay folks we have 84 members and 32 entries in the Database "Who's
Who." Angie Godina went to a lot of trouble to establish this database
and I think it will really help for a quick one stop look at who is
researching in a particular area.

So why not have a look in the Database under Who's Who and fill in your
entry. If you have trouble ask your questions If I can't answer I'm sure
our creator will.

[note: Participation in this database is not absolutely required. So
don't anybody go and get nervous about me taking out my Axe if you don't
comply!]

Since the topic of My Axe has come up. . . .

8^)  joseph

ps: I'm going to ask Angie [Angie Are you listening?] if she can make up
a form letter detailing how to enter your data into the Database. I'm
going to couple these instructions with an encouragement letter and send
it to the group on a monthly basis. that way the old vatos in the group
will constantly be pestered and the jovenes will have an opportunity to
comply.

Would Yolanda Gomez please come to the principles office as soon as
possible.

Seems I can't match up your Email Address with you.

Please ID as soon as possible.

joseph

Helyn,

Here is some additional information you may or may not have...

Marriage Record:
ANTO. JOSE DE ROBLES
  Male
Marriages:
  Spouse:  MA. LUCIANA SANCHES
  Marriage:  About 03 NOV 1830   Santo Thomas De Momax, Momax, 
Zacatecas, Mexico
Messages:
 Extracted marriage record for locality listed in the record. The 
source records are usually arranged chronologically by the marriage 
date.
Source Information:
 Batch No.:  Dates:  Source Call No.:
 M600845  1776 - 1885  0444019

ROBLES-SANCHES Children:
- JOSE YGNACIO RAMON ROBLES SANCHES
Gender: Male Christening: 04 AUG 1831 Santo Thomas De Momax, Momax, 
Zacatecas, Mexico 

- ANTO. RAMON ROBLES SANCHES
Gender: Male Christening: 12 DEC 1832 Santo Thomas De Momax, Momax, 
Zacatecas, Mexico

- MARIA RAMONA DEL REFUGIO ROBLES SANCHEZ
Gender: Female Christening: 06 SEP 1835 San Luis, Colotlan, Jalisco, 
Mexico 

- DOMINGO ROMAN ROBLES SANCHES
Gender: Male Christening: 09 AUG 1837 Santo Thomas De Momax, Momax, 
Zacatecas, Mexico

- MA. SABINA SEFERINA ROBLES SANCHES
Gender: Female Christening: 29 AUG 1839 Santo Thomas De Momax, Momax, 
Zacatecas, Mexico

- TIBURCIO ANTO. ROMAN ROBLES SANCHES
Gender: Male Christening: 11 AUG 1841 Santo Thomas De Momax, Momax, 
Zacatecas, Mexico

Additionally, there is someone who submitted Ancestral files to the 
familysearch website.  Here is some links:
http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/IGI/family_group_record.asp?
familyid=274495778&indi_id=100232351635&lds=1&region=10&frompage=99

http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/IGI/family_group_record.asp?
familyid=274495909&indi_id=100232351772&lds=1&region=10&frompage=99

http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/IGI/family_group_record.asp?
familyid=340750418&indi_id=100371737232&lds=1&region=10&frompage=99

Talk to you later,
Angie

By the Way:  I think Antonio Robles was born abt 1859 and not 1759, 
otherwise he would be over a hundred when his daughter was born. :-)


--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, Santos Luna <mistyriver123@y...> 
wrote:
> I hereby give Emilie, from Port Orchard, WA....Mil Gracias.
>  
> For many years, I have not been able to break the "code", and find 

A very good written article by John Schmal. 

I've been to Vera Cruz, Zacatecas, and Guanajuato, and
have seen Mexicans with negro features at these
locations.  Anyway you look at it, approximately
200,000 blacks had to have been absorbed into the
population.

Alberto. 

--- makas@... wrote:

> 
>   Abstract from SLAVERY IN COLONIAL MEXICO
> By John P. Schmal
> 
> The Marriages of Slaves in Mexico
> 
> The majority of slaves brought to the shores of
> Mexico were male. With a 
> lack of female Africans, most of these men
> eventually chose Indian or 
> mestizo women as spouses. The long-established Siete
> Partidas laws of 
> Spain granted slaves the right to select their
> spouses. Slave masters 
> were thus forbidden from intervening in this
> decision.
> 
> Professor Martha Menchaca, the author of Recovering
> History, 
> Reconstructing Race: The Indian, Black, and White
> Roots of Mexican 
> Americans, observed that "this legislation was of
> monumental importance 
> because it became the gateway for the children of
> slaves to gain their 
> freedom.
> 
> Due to the lobbying efforts of the Catholic Church
> the children of Black 
> male slaves and Indian women were declared free and
> given the right to 
> live with their mother." With laws that granted
> freedom to the children 
> of a slave who married into other racial
> classifications, it is very 
> obvious to see the motivation of this class to seek
> outside partners.
> 
> The Spanish practice of classifying people by race
> was utilized in the 
> Catholic Church records of Colonial Mexico. While
> doing extensive 
> genealogical research into Colonial Mexican church
> records from the 
> 1600s and 1700s, this author has spent a great deal
> of time exploring 
> the marriages of slaves in various parts of Mexico.
> In areas such as San 
> Luis Potosí, Zacatecas, Aguascalientes and
> Guanajuato, I have frequently 
> seen church records that documented the marriages of
> males slaves to 
> mestizas, Indians, and mulatas. It is likely that
> the offspring of these 
> marriages would have been free individuals.
> 
> The Caste System in Mexico
> 
> While the Spaniards and Europeans living in Mexico
> "enjoyed the highest 
> social prestige and were accorded the most extensive
> legal and economic