Don y Doña

Perdoneme Rodolfo pero la etimologia de Don , NO es de las siglas De Origen Noble. De acuerdo al Diccionario de la Real Academia Española, viene de el Latin dominus (proprietario o señor). De acuerdo con la Enciclopedia Britanica, en la epoca romana se utilizaba dominus para el dueño de propriedad y esclavos. Fue de echo el emperador Diocleciano (284 to 305 DC) el primero en utilizarlo y sus sucesores fueron conocidos como dominate ( dominatus ).

Comments

Comment

Jaime yo dije que don es una abreviación de las palabras de origen noble.

Si los romanos llamaban a los propietarios dueños es otra cosa, no le busque las etimologías, ese es el origen del término.

Usted es libre de pensar lo que guste.

Rodolfo Sinaí Gómez

> Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 00:20:14 +0000
> From: alvaradj@comcast.net
> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Don y Doña
>
> Perdoneme Rodolfo pero la etimologia de Don , NO es de las siglas De Origen Noble. De acuerdo al Diccionario de la Real Academia Española, viene de el Latin dominus (proprietario o señor). De acuerdo con la Enciclopedia Britanica, en la epoca romana se utilizaba dominus para el dueño de propriedad y esclavos. Fue de echo el emperador Diocleciano (284 to 305 DC) el primero en utilizarlo y sus sucesores fueron conocidos como dominate ( dominatus ).
>
> Ahora, estoy de acuerdo que su uso original era reservado para el trato de aquellas personas de noble origen

Comment

Estoy totalmente de acuerdo con Jaime Alvarado, ese es el origen de la palabra "Don" o "Doña", por que ese termino se acuño primeramente a personas de dinero que eran las que dominaban la region o eran propietarios de grandes tierras y gran cantidad de sirvientes, que en La Nueva España muy pocos eran de origen noble, ya despues se extendio otro tipo de personas, dejo aqui algo referente a ese termino:

El "precio" monetario de la dignidad

Por Roberto Funes Funes

En Cuba y otras posesiones americanas de España, desde la época de la conquista y colonización se estableció como una costumbre el uso del "Don" para resaltar la categoría económica de alguien.
No era así en la Metrópoli, donde aquello tenía otro carácter y, precisamente por eso, el abuso en el Nuevo Mundo de la muy respetable norma, molestó a más de un alto funcionario, sobre todo si los documentos oficiales cruzaban el Atlántico y llegaban al supremo centro del poder colonial, dando dignidades, de facto, a cualquier

Family skeletons

Hello Alicia,
Don't know if you remember me, but I met you when I hosted the first So. Cal meeting of Rancho members in my home.  I haven't been able to devote much time to my genealogy searches lately but I try to keep up with the group by reading the postings.  I found your question a very valid one.  I first started by searching my maternal ancestry in 1970.  From the time II was very small my maternal grandmother would often speak of her early days in Mexico.  As a young adult I would often stop by her house after work and she would tell me stories of days passed.  It was then that my interest in my ancestry began.  As the years passed and I began asking questions of my aunts I came across some resistance from a few of the elder aunts.  I thought this very odd since my grandmother had been very candid with me when she spoke of her life.  In fact eight days before her death a video was made of my grandmother as she told her story.  At the age of 92 she

Comments

Comment

Hello Luis,
As I previously mentioned I've only researched 2 years 1857/1858 on the Aguas, Aguas. pilot site--entry by entry--and I've come across so many last names I've never heard of before, and my mother is from there. Including an entry 10/22/1858 that reads: "en la Calle de la Carcel: hijo legmo. de D.Amacio Martel y Da. Dolly Levy!" Anyway, don't despair. I've been searching for about two years now with no luck locating/connecting my Onate's, Santelice's, Balderrama's, and Candelas, all from the Zacs, Aguas, and Jalisco areas. All very illustrous names, but no connections. Buena suerte, Alice BB

I'm interested how you found this out because I'm in the same situation with my dead end ancestor, Jorge JAIME (de Xaime) "Espanol, nacido de padres no conocidos." I assume that someone knew who his parents were in El Puesto de San Miguel DE LOS ALBA because he's clearly labeled an "Espanol" and also given a (somewhat rare) surname, which doesn't exist in Ags. in that

Comment

Daniel,

On one of your posts you said
"On there records baptisms ( they have the last name López but "de padre no conocido" y Gorgonia de Mendoza" Everyone knew he was the father except his wife and his other family. THe list goes on of escándolos. Thought I just share this part of Alteño history in my family. -Daniel"

I'm interested how you found this out because I'm in the same situation with my dead end ancestor, Jorge JAIME (de Xaime) "Espanol, nacido de padres no conocidos." I assume that someone knew who his parents were in El Puesto de San Miguel DE LOS ALBA because he's clearly labeled an "Espanol" and also given a (somewhat rare) surname, which doesn't exist in Ags. in that time period when he was baptized...

thanks,
Luis

Luis Jaime

Comment

Hi Luís, I found out this because she is baptized as de padre no conocido but on her marriage and death certficate she list as hija de Estevan López, natural. Also my grandfather told me. -Daniel
_________________________________________________________________
Get 5 GB of storage with Windows Live Hotmail.
http://windowslive.com/Explore/Hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_5g…

Comment

 With knowledge comes responsibility. I personally have chosen to be quiet about things learned that would affect family members who are still living. My information is not gathered to cause pain or split families. The things I've learned from the records of the past are another story, those I will report accurately. I have heard more than once that is was not uncommon for the men of Mexico to have more than one family or to have a family plus a "carida". My Father told me on his vist to Jerez in 1936 his elderly uncle took him to meet his "carida" and told Dad as long as she knew her place and it was never put to his wife and he could afford to support both so it was acceptable. His marriage had been arranged as many were in old Mexico. His marriage was more of a partnership so you wonder if this was the way to find love in those days. I don't think it would have been allowed for women but for the men it seemed to happen many times. I did try
to find the children of this

Comment

Erlinda, I think we look at these hidden secrets as a bad thing. In everyone of our families exist things known and unknown. The one thing I value from things I have learned is that
if these unmentionable things did not happen Me and most of my immediate family would not exist. We, and I mean most of us are actually a MIRACLE. I cannot change the past, but Im glad they happened.
----- Original Message -----
From: Erlinda Castanon-Long
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 5:34 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Family skeletons

With knowledge comes responsibility. I personally have chosen to be quiet about things learned that would affect family members who are still living. My information is not gathered to cause pain or split families. The things I've learned from the records of the past are another story, those I will report accurately. I have heard more than once that is was not uncommon for the men of Mexico to have more than one

Comment

Erlinda,
what about writing information about ones dead great grandparents. my parents are still alive so i would be writing of their grandparents. Is that to soon to reveal information? When you say records in the past are fine, well some one had to reveal that information in their present. If they had not done so we would be running into deadends. I am asking these questions because they are ones that I am struggling with. The stories I wrote in the email are ones that can still hurt yet if they are not written down they are lost for the ages.

________________________________

From: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org on behalf of Erlinda Castanon-Long
Sent: Mon 2/23/2009 5:34 PM
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Family skeletons

With knowledge comes responsibility. I personally have chosen to be quiet about things learned that would affect family members who are still living. My information is not gathered to cause pain or split families

Comment

In the family that my aunt married into there is an aunt of her husband's who never married, but she had about seven children, even some twins, from as many as four men. My 96 year old aunt knows who the fathers were. The children of these women, cousins to my aunt's husband, are starting to die, and I notice that no father is listed for them in obituaries. I think these children know who their fathers were, but can't list them since these fathers were already married. I have written the names of the fathers in my notes, and I will give that information to one of the descendants in this family that is also doing genealogy, so that someone besides me will have that information. In the trees I have done of this family, I of course do not list the fathers. When I checked the birth records for the children of this woman who bore children from several men, they are listed as "hijo natural".

Emilie
----- Original Message -----
From: Erlinda Castanon-Long
To: general

Comment

I am fairly new to this group but really appreciate how much I have
learned already. I enjoyed reading people's reasons why they are doing
their family genealogy. I am doing my own because of the skeletons in our
closest and the weird inaccuracies that have formed because of secrets. By
now family members don't know how they are related, where we come from
(other than just Mexico), and why. We have nearly lost the important
stories of our family. This is of particular importance to me as I have
pursued graduate education. My education has been at times uncomfortable
for family members. I have one family member that likes to say "we come
from people with dirt floors" as a reminder that we were not meant for
much. A very sad message to pass on.

In doing genealogy I have in fact learned that I had family members that
were university educated (one was a lawyer) and were able to enjoy
luxuries. None of these families had dirt floors when they were in Mexico.
It was only when they came to

Comment

I have been working on the jauregui even though I do not descend from them My first cousins mother is a Jauregui and i promised her that i would work on her line. I found a great uncle of hers a few years ago living in utah. he was very old and the person that i actually spoke with on the phone was his wife. from her i was able to gather clues to conmtinue my search. What I found was that (in general)the jauregui men, besides having more than one wife at a time, went through many wives because they kept dying on them. I would find a marriage cert, and it would say widowed for 6 months , and then the next one would say widowed for 2 or 3 years. It was really frustrating at first tring to make heads or tails out of some of the information except that every once in a long while I find some little bit of information on the jauregui and continue on. I have found that the Jauregui's from mexticlan,Nochistlan, zapotlanejo, jalostotiltlan, and tepatitlan,are all related to the Jaure
gui of

Comment

Hello Alicia,
Don't know if you remember me, but I met you when I hosted the first So. Cal meeting of Rancho members in my home.  I haven't been able to devote much time to my genealogy searches lately but I try to keep up with the group by reading the postings.  I found your question a very valid one.  I first started by searching my maternal ancestry in 1970.  From the time II was very small my maternal grandmother would often speak of her early days in Mexico.  As a young adult I would often stop by her house after work and she would tell me stories of days passed.  It was then that my interest in my ancestry began.  As the years passed and I began asking questions of my aunts I came across some resistance from a few of the elder aunts.  I thought this very odd since my grandmother had been very candid with me when she spoke of her life.  In fact eight days before her death a video was made of my grandmother as she told her story.  At the age of 92 she
was very accurate in her

Francisco ? Suazo

Can somebody read the attached marriage recording and figure out what the middle name is?

Comments

Comment

This program won't accept attachments. You have to upload it to Albums.

Emilie
Port Orchard, WA
----- Original Message -----
From: R.A.Ricci
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 1:36 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Francisco ? Suazo

Can somebody read the attached marriage recording and figure out what the middle name is?

Comment

Hello all,

Does anyone have the surname FIJON (FIXON, FIFON) in their ancestry? I found
this in San Miguel el Alto and Jalostotitlan.

Hola a todos,

Alguien tiene el apellido FIJON (FIXON, FIFON) entre sus ancestros? Encontré
este apellidos en San Miguel el Alto y Jalostotitlan.

Saludos,

Ricardo

Thomas de Villapando

Does anyone have information on the Villalpando family of Aguascalientes?

From the Aguascalientes chuich records there is:

(1) Thomas Villalpando and Maria Vargas
married 7 Oct 1677, in Aguascalientes; they had at least these children

Comments

Comment

Ricci

The earliest information I have (with many thanks due to Bill Figueroa) is

Thomas Alejo de Villalpando, born about 1650. He married twice: (1) 7 Oct
1677, in Aguascalientes to Maria de Vargas (b. 22 Jan 1646) and (2) 12 Mar 1690,
Ags., to Maria de Jaen (also known as de Sotelo).

children by Maria de Vargas
(1) Antonio, chr 7 Oct 1862, Aguascalientes
(2) Maria, chr 25 Apr 1684
(3) Maria (again), chr 5 Dec 1685
(4) Thomas, chr 29 Mar 1687

Maria de Vargas died 18 Mar 1687

children by Maria de Jaen (de Sotelo)
(1) Juan Manuel, chr 27 Dec 1690
(2) Maria Theresia, chr 10 May 1693
(3) Maria Antonia, chr 4 Apr 1695
(4) Felipa (Sotelo y Villalpando) born abt 1698; married Andres Macias, 3 May
1718, Asientos
(5) Juan Antonio, chr 22 Aug 1701, m. Josefa Flores, 24 Feb 1704, Asientos
(6) Maria de la Salud, chr. 22 Mar 1704
(7) Francisco Antonio,born abt 1709, m. Petra de la Candelaria Luevana
Contreras in Asientos
(8) Elena Lorensa, b. abt 1710, m. Salbador de Santiago de Escobar

Comment

Are they related To Gabriel Villalpando married to Leonor Sepulveda (daughter of marcos sepulveda and Mariana Lomelin Gomez H. de M.
Gabriel and Leonor are the parents of Jose Manuel Villalpando married in 1735 to Josefa beatriz Rodriguez Bajo y Ponce in Nochistlan

________________________________

From: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org on behalf of gpf13
Sent: Fri 2/13/2009 11:28 PM
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Thomas de Villapando

Does anyone have information on the Villalpando family of Aguascalientes?

>From the Aguascalientes chuich records there is:

(1) Thomas Villalpando and Maria Vargas
married 7 Oct 1677, in Aguascalientes; they had at least these children
(i) Antonio, chr. 7 Oct 1682, Aguascalientes
(ii) Maria, chr. 5 Dec 1685
(iii) Thomas, chr. 29 Mar 1687

(2) Thomas Villalpando and Maria de Jaen (y Ruis de Esparza?)
married 12 Mar 1690, Aguascalientesl; they had at least 3 children
(i) Juan Manuel, chr. 27 Dec 1690
(ii)

Comment

The villalpando family from aguascalientes, los altos, and nochistlan are related to the villalpando family in Taos new mexico. One of my ancestors marriage records state that he was born in taos new mexico. his brothers were born in jalos, his parents in jalos and grandparents were inmexticacan and nochistlan zacatecas

R.A.Ricci

Comment

Bill

Thank you very much for the reply! I had a suspicion that these were all
connected somehow, but did not have anything to prove it. I really appreciate the
help.

My wife's grandmother, Maria Eutiquia Escobar, was born in Aguascalientes. I
do not have a baptism date for her, but she is in the civil records. I am
quite amazed at the quality of the church records from there. Part of what I have
done is posted under my name in the files section of Nuestros Ranchos.

Have you seen the Aguascalientes films posted at the Family Search Pilot? I
have been using this site recently and am quite impressed with it. The images
I've downloaded are of very high quality (typical file size is about 2 Mb).
Occasionally the writing is faint; what I have found is that with image software
I can adjust the contrast, color, and other parameters and improve the
readability. Increased contrast with sepia coloring seems to the best combination.

George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA

**************
A

Comment

George,

Thomas Alejo de Villalpando married twice:

1. María de Vargas (aka María de Heredia) on 7 Oct 1677 in Aguascalientes. They had four children, all baptized at Parroquia de la Asunción de Aguascalientes:

i. Antonio chr. 07 Oct 1682 baptized when he was1 month old.
ii. Maria chr. 25 Apr 1684 (22 days old)
iii. Maria (second with that name) chr. 5 Dec 1685
iv. Thomas chr. 29 Mar 1687

María de Vargas died 18 Mar 1687 of childbirth complications, 11 days before the baptism of her fourth child. Thomas de Villalpando remarried three years later at Parroquia de la Asunción.

2. María Ruiz de Esparza (aka María Sotelo, aka María de Jaén) on 12 Mar 1690. She was the daughter of Ignacio Ruiz de Esparza and Elena Sotelo de Jaén, and the great-granddaughter of Lope Ruiz de Esparza and Francisca Gabai. Thomas de Villalpando and María de Jaén had the following six children:

i. Juan Manuel chr. 27 Dec 1690
ii. María Theresa chr. 10 May 1693
iii. María Antonia chr. 04 Apr 1695
iv

Elena Cueto Diaz

Jaime A. Michel pregunto:

Tendras informacion de Elena Cueto Diaz nacio en Sayula, Jalisco en 1888 estuvo casada con Manuel C. Michel Zamora ;se que era hija de Francisco Cueto Vale y Maria Diaz Gonzalez, me gustaría saber si tienes informacion sobre hermanos, ancestros de ella,

Marge Vallazza

Depending on the time frame, the father might not have been around to say
the child was his when it was born. It doesn't mean he wasn't the father.
He was working or fighting or whatever when the child was baptised. If

Why we do genealogy?

Dear Jonathan and Alicia,
What great questions the two of you ask. There are several
reasons that genealogy sparked my interest.
First and foremost, my maternal grandfather and father knew so much

NAVARRO y ACEVES en Tepatitlán

Mi agradecimiento sincero por darme la oportunidad de ser parte de su grupo. Ya tengo varios años ayudando a mi esposo en la búsqueda de sus raices en Silesia que era Alemania cuando él nació y desde 1945 pasó a ser parte de Polonia. De ahí nació en mí el deseo de hacer lo mismo con mi familia en México, pero hasta ahora no me había sido posible encontrar personas o grupos dedicados seriamente a la genealogía. Estoy segura de que podremos ayudarnos mutuamente.

Comments

Comment

Hola Bertha,

Yo tambien desciendo de los ACEVES de Tepa, originalmente de la Capilla de Guadalupe, de Don Antonio Faustino el "Amo" Aceves, fundador de la Capilla. Si hay algo en que te pueda ayudar me dices, y tambien de algunas familias NAVARRO de Tepa y Capilla.

Puedes revisar esta parte de mis ancestros en
http://miarbolfamiliar.com/familias/rodriguez-camarena/bot08.htm

Hasta luego,

Ricardo

Comment

Hola Ricardo

Muchas gracias por tu correo. Yo apenas estoy empezando y todavía no se a
que familia pertenecía mi bisabuela Antonia Aceves, pero mi abuelo solía
decir "si son Navarro o Aceves nacidos en Tepatitlán, son parientes de
nosotros" sólo que se necesitan documentos para estar seguros y es lo que me
propongo obtener en el futuro.
Sabes si hay manera de visitar los archivos por internet? Yo ya traté, pero
no recibo respuesta alguna. También traté de comprar algunos libros de "mi
Jalisco.com" pero no funciona el click, tu conoces esa Página?

Saludos

Bertha

----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick Rodriguez"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2007 2:59 AM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] NAVARRO y ACEVES en Tepatitlan

>
> Hola Bertha,
>
> Yo tambien desciendo de los ACEVES de Tepa, originalmente de la Capilla de
> Guadalupe, de Don Antonio Faustino el "Amo" Aceves, fundador de la
> Capilla. Si hay algo en que te pueda ayudar me dices, y tambien de algunas
> familias

Comment

Hola Bertha,
Que yo sepa, no hay manera de revisar los archivos por internet. Lo que yo he estado haciendo es ir a notaria parroquial de Tepa a obtener extractos de las fe de bautismos, ya que no permiten fotocopiarlas. Quizas puedas verlas en algun centro familiar de la iglesia mormona que se encuentran por todo EU. No estoy muy seguro como manejan eso todavia ya que no he tenido la oportunidad de visitar alguna aca en Mexico.
Acerca de los libros que existen de los Aceves, hay bastante informacion en el segundo tomo de Retonos de Espana en la Nueva Galicia, ya que trata de los apellidos Aceves hasta Gomez Hurtado de Mendoza. Tambien esta un libro que acabo de conseguir de Capilla de Guadalupe, que trata mucho de los Aceves, ya que uno de ellos fue quien fundo ese pueblo. Por parte del apellido Navarro no he encontrado algun libro que trate mucho de estas familias, pero si lo encuentro te aviso.
Bueno, hasta luego y que estes muy bien.
Ricardo

Comment

Hola Ricardo:

Gracias por tu rápida respuesta, con los mormones no he tenido contacto, tal
vez lo haga en el futuro.
El segundo tomo de "Retoños de España en la Nueva Galicia" lo compré en el
museo de Tepatitlán en Noviembre de 2006, está muy interesante y como dices
hay mucho sobre los Aceves, lo que necesito es buscar el lazo con mi
familia, por lo que la próxima vez que visite Tepatitlán, pienso visitar los
archivos.

Es una suerte que exista aún tanta información de esas 117 familias
españolas que colonizaron los Altos de Jalisco como los ocho tomos de
"Retoños de España ... " y otras obras que encontramos en el museo, ese
grupo de cronistas está haciendo una labor fantástica.

Muchos saludos

Bertha M. de Boehm

----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick Rodriguez"
To:
Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2007 2:14 AM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] NAVARRO y ACEVES en Tepatitlan

>
> Hola Bertha,
> Que yo sepa, no hay manera de revisar los archivos por internet. Lo que yo
> he

New Member-surnames Lara, Guardado in Lagos de Moreno and AguasCalientes

Hello,
 
I am doing genealogical research--my family comes primarily from the Lagos de Moreno area with many of them being 'indios' from the Pueblo de Moya which is now a neighborhood in present-day Lagos de Moreno. One branch of the family then moved to Aguascalientes from the Lagos area. I've been in touch with an historian in Lagos who believes many of the indios from Pueblo de Moya were Tlaxcala indians from the South who helped in the conquest and I have a little bit of info. regarding the founding of Pueblo de Moya--many who carry my family names but I have not yet made the connection. I will be happy to share any informaton that I have and hope to find someone researching lines similar to mine. http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/17463

Comments

Comment

I have found the name Lara to extensive throughout the area of Jalpas de Canovas, formerly known as Hacienda Jalpas de Canovas, Guanajuato, which at one time was owned by the Braniff family who intermarried into Mexican families. Incidentally, the same Braniff Air line family. My grandmother was a Lara from this area and my grandmother spoke affectionately of Aguascalientes. She told my father what indigenous group she belonged to but he did not remember. My research is in this area and in Arandas, Jal. and Ayotlan, Jal has been on the Cano line.

From: Jen Derby
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] New Member-surnames Lara, Guardado in Lagos de Moreno and AguasCalientes
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Sunday, February 15, 2009, 4:45 PM

Hello,
 
I am doing genealogical research--my family comes primarily from the Lagos de
Moreno area with many of them being 'indios' from the Pueblo de Moya
which is now a neighborhood in present-day Lagos de Moreno. One branch of the
family then

macias and salas

I have an ancestor named maria magdalena salas lozano christened on 2/jul/1787 with the parents named Josse de Santiago salas (Macias?) and francisca Lozano.
Magdalena was married to Juan antonio Casillas in Tepa on 20/may 1787

Diego Delgadillo - Irma Gomez Gtz de Lucero

Hola Irma:

Saludos desde Guadalajara, Jalisco.

Yo tambien soy genealogista aficionado desde hace ya varios años y mis
ancestros por linea paterna son de la region de Los Altos de Jalisco, mi

Comments

Comment

Hola Tomas,

Tengo varias preguntas y avisos sobre el arbol de juana y josefa ramirez. Casi todo lo que yo he investigado es igual a la informacion que tienes. pero hay unas diferencias. Juan lucas gomez h de m es el mismo en las dos lineas. se caso un tio con su sobrina. Por lo perez:Hay dos juan jose perez franco casado diferentes mujers con nombres tambien similares. Ya saque una acta pero voy a sacar otra acta para conmfirmar por seguro si tienes un error. La primera acta, punta al otro juan jose y no que al que tienes apuntado.
Yo tengo mucho tiempo bucscando Rafael perez y antonia de la torre. Si puedes por favor dime como encontraste a estos dos para confirmar estos datos. Tambien como sabes que juan lucas gomez es este Juan lucas felipe gomez hijo de blas.
Tambien estoy estudiando lo vallejo despueste mando informacion sobre sus antepasados. esa linea se junta con la del general vallejo el californio.
Gracias primo,
Ricardo

R.A.Ricci

Comment

Hi,
I sent you an email eit the following info based on your gedcom file:
today I found your file on the ancestors of my great great grandmother serapia ramirez perez. I have two questions for you. The first is what evidence do you have of gregorio perez de la torre parents being jose antonio rafael perez-and Maria antonia de la torre. I know that gregorio' parents were rafael perez and maria antonia de la torre but what is the source that it is these two individuals.

The other question is that I believe you have a mistake in your records. There were two juan jose perez franco and I believe that you have mixed up the two. I went to the LDS library to confirm my suspicion by pulling a mariage record. That record backed up my suspicion.I am going to pull another record to confirm the information and then I will send you the corrected information,

I did not see Juana's info in the gedcom file but I did find it here. Juana Ramirez and Prospero Perez are my mom's maternal grandparents

Comment

I have confirmed that you have a mix up of the two juan jose Perez.
please email to discuss it
I have also checked on your infomaton on the suazo carmona line. I had only carmona before and I did not understand where you came up with suazo. I originally thought we had conflictinig information, we do not. I understand how the data interacts and have confirmed your information and taken it further in that I had some added information and it all clicks together. I will be taking this line further as soon as I can make a trip to the library.
R.A.Ricci

Comment

We are thrid cousins through Nicolas Ramirez and Juan Perez

________________________________

From: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org on behalf of R.A.Ricci
Sent: Mon 2/23/2009 1:14 PM
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] suazo de carmona, juan jose perez

I have confirmed that you have a mix up of the two juan jose Perez.
please email to discuss it
I have also checked on your infomaton on the suazo carmona line. I had only carmona before and I did not understand where you came up with suazo. I originally thought we had conflictinig information, we do not. I understand how the data interacts and have confirmed your information and taken it further in that I had some added information and it all clicks together. I will be taking this line further as soon as I can make a trip to the library.
R.A.Ricci

Luis LOMELINI and OLMOS

To Richard R.--

My husband has OLMOS in his family tree. His OLMOS are from the Ayo el Chico area. Can you be more specific with your Luis LOMELINI and OLMOS details?

Thanks.

Sincerely,
Patricia BURTON

Comments

Comment

Joseph (Guiseppe) Luis Lomelin, brother to Jn.Carlo Domingo Lomelin, was married Maria del Olmo
Joseph Luis Lomelin and Maria del Olmo were the parents of Maria Lomelin del Olmo
Maria Lomelin del Olmo and Juan de Viilasenor Reus y Patino Peirerea were the parents of Pedro Viilasenor
Just recently somone posted a genealogy showing the relationship among the leaders of the revolution. You can follow the rest of the line there to Miguel Hidalgo Costilla. There are lots of genealogies, some from well known genealogist, purporting to show his family tree. They have some mistakes but there is a reason for those mistakes because of circumstances. I have the documentation showing how it was an uncle or grandparent raising the child due to early deaths.

________________________________

From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org on behalf of patricia burton
Sent: Mon 2/23/2009 5:06 AM
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Luis LOMELINI and OLMOS

To Richard

Comment

The descent from Jn carlo D. Lomelin, if I remember correctly is that his daughter from Maria Benavides Ramos is named maria lomelin.
Maria Lomelin and Nicolas perez Contreras have a child by the name of juana contreras who married Pedro Gallaga Mandarte. They were the parents of Juan Fernando Gallaga Mandarte the maternal grandfather of miguel hidalgo costilla's mother.
From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org on behalf of Ricci, Richard
Sent: Mon 2/23/2009 8:39 AM
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Luis LOMELINI and OLMOS

Joseph (Guiseppe) Luis Lomelin, brother to Jn.Carlo Domingo Lomelin, was married Maria del Olmo
Joseph Luis Lomelin and Maria del Olmo were the parents of Maria Lomelin del Olmo
Maria Lomelin del Olmo and Juan de Viilasenor Reus y Patino Peirerea were the parents of Pedro Viilasenor
Just recently somone posted a genealogy showing the relationship among the leaders of the revolution. You can follow the rest of the line there

Comment

I am getting many emails asking for clarification on the connection between the perez franco de paredes line and the perstorello rodriguez Ferreira family from Portugal and the extremadura.
There are several points that I must cover.
1.)Not all the Franco de paredes but the ones that descend from Alonso Perestorello and Luisa Paredes y Franco.
2.)The two most preimminent genealogist of los altos,nochistlan & zacatecas, Jaime Holcombe and Mariano Gonzalez Leal disagreed on the parents of Alonso Perstoriello.

3.)Jaime Holcombe wrote that

Alonso is the son of Diego Rodriguez Herrera (Fererrra) and Isabel hernandez Munoz. He as 3 sons from this relationship. The 3 sons are

Alonso Perestorello

Diego Rodriguez

Francisco Rodriguez

I followed the information gathered from this information

to speculate that Diego Rodriguez Ferrera is from the rodriguez perestorello ferrera family that does descend from the perestorello family of Bartholome.

i followed the line from diego

Retoños de España Tomo II

Hello All I waondering where can I find or if anyone can do a lookup on the Flores de la Torre and Flores-Alatorre family! I want to know how Flores Alatorre changed from Flores de la Torre. Also, is it true the patriarch Juan López de Elizalde is "hijo legítimo de Miguel López de Elizalde y Leonor de Aberruza"? Many Thanks!

Comments

Comment

Daniel,

Thanks for all the valuable information you provide to everyone in the group.

Now in regards to your inquiry, I don't know if this will answer your question below but I recently bought this book from one of the nuestros ranchos members in Escondido Calif. The book is titled Cronica de la Provincia de Santiago de Xalisco, Escrita por. Fr. Nicolas Antonio De Ornelas Mendoza y Valdivia~ 1719-1722. He may be one of your relatives. The book was published in Guadalajara by the Instituto Jaliscience de Antropologia e Historia. INAH 1962.

Pages 59-63 refer to XUCHIPILA, year 1543. There is the following paragraph.

Después que dejó el capitán Juan Delgado le encomienda de el Teul, por sus achaques, la sirvió el capitán Miguel González, el mozo, y este se avenia con mucha amistad con los religiosos y con el encomendero de Xuchipila, que era el señor capitán Hernán de Flores, yerno de el licienciado Diego Pérez de la Torre: y con la ayuda de entreambos, cogieron corriente estas dos

Comment

Thank You Alicia! This does help, really anything with the Flores of this time period is helpful. Actually I dont descend from the Flores per say. I am related by marriage, but I do have some flores back to 1750 in Jalpa which should be Flores de la Torre, because they're español but I need to verify and order films. Most likely theyll be in Nochistlán because Jalpa films lack in this eraly years! I am actually helping Rubén Hernández who descends from the Flores Alatorre( I just found out by Steven and Claudia) THESE ARE THE SAME FAMILIES. Rubén has Diego Flores Alatorre born around 1700 or so married to a gonzález de HErmosillo ( I have told him I do have a speculation, there were only have a handful of Diegos but still need to order films just in case, or easier would be get Retoños Tomo II. -Daniel Méndez del Camino

_________________________________________________________________
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Comment

Hola Daniel. I have found in old records pertaining to one of my ancestors, that the "Flores Alatorre" and "Flores de la Torre" surnames were used interchangeably. At least, this was the case 1794 and 1821 in Juchipila, Zacatecas.

Archival records pertaining to my 6th GG-father, Nicolas Flores, who served as a judicial official in Juchipila during those years, show both names were used in this period.

Good luck with the rest.

Claudia Reynoso

Luis LOMELINI???

To Richard R.--

My husband comes from the LOMELI/LOMELIN/ LOMELINI line. I have worked on part of the lines of Miguel HIDALGO, namely the ones that come from the GALLAGA part of the family. Would you please give some details on this brother of Carlos LOMELINI and how he fits into the Padre Miguel HIDALGO family tree? Many thanks.

Comments

Comment

the lomelin olmos line descends from luis lomelin and not carlos

________________________________

From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org on behalf of patricia burton
Sent: Sun 2/22/2009 7:36 PM
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Luis LOMELINI???

To Richard R.--

My husband comes from the LOMELI/LOMELIN/ LOMELINI line. I have worked on part of the lines of Miguel HIDALGO, namely the ones that come from the GALLAGA part of the family. Would you please give some details on this brother of Carlos LOMELINI and how he fits into the Padre Miguel HIDALGO family tree? Many thanks.

Sincerely,
Patricia BURTON
San Diego, Ca.

--- On Sat, 2/21/09, Ricci, Richard wrote:

> From: Ricci, Richard
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Thank You
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Saturday, February 21, 2009, 2:18 PM
> My notes have him as Carlos' brother. He is also the
> ancestor of one of miguel Hidalgos lines. Miguel Hidalgo
> Costilla descends from

Christobal de Medina and Maria de Avila

Christobal de Medina married Maria de Avila (Abila) on May 2 1666 in Aguascalientes. In their marriage record their parents are not listed, and unfortunately the images of Marriage Licenses (Informacion Matrimonial) in the LDS Pilot site begin that year, but two months latter. So, I've hit a road block. However, there is some additional information that may help.

Comments

Comment

Jaime

Thank you for the reply. As you have concluded, I also think that Isabel Ramires and Isabel Esparza are the same person.

I looked in the IGI, doing a search for all children of Antonio and Isabel (without last names). In the period of interest, most are children of Isbael Ramires, and only one of Isabel Esparza (this is Luis de los Reyes), but that one fits right in with the others. There is also a child of Antonio de los Reyes and Isabel "Jamines," I did not have time to look at the record today, but I would not be surprised if this were a transcription error.

I've looked in the IGI for a marriage to Antonio de los Reyes and Isabel Ramires or Esparza, but did not find one.

I would appreciate it if you could send the jpg of the Information Matrimonial for Joseph de los Reyes and Beatriz de Medina (Thank you!). My e-mail is gpf13@aol.com.

George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA

Comment

Regarding Isabel de Esparza or Ramirez, and more on the Reyes-Medina family, today I found some very interesting information.
Luis de Reies (Reyes) was born April 27 1693 in Aguascalientes (christened May 6 1693; Batch C604763 Source 299423; JPG available) son of Antonio de Reyes and Isabel de Esparza.
Then I found the marriage of Luis de Reyes to Gabriela de Medina 25 Nov 1714 in Aguascalientes (Batch M604846 Source 0299824). Parents of groom listed as Antonio de Reyes and Isabel Ramirez! Parents of bride: Christobal de Medina and Leonor de Abila (Avila). Unfortunately, the 1714 volume of "Informacion Matrimonial" for el Sagrario, Aguascalientes is missing from the Pilot LDS site, and thus additional information could not be obtained. That was relevant because the mother of the bride is Leonor de Abila, and not Maria, as her name (or at least the wife of Christobal) appears in other records. Also, while Isabel is listed as dead, Leonor is not, but we know that Maria de Abila was

Comment

Hi Jaime the patriarch of the Ávila family is Luís de Ávila who married Clara de Anaya

and had at least the following children María who married Pablo Montes de Oca and Nicolás de Ávila who married Gertrudis López de Elizalde (granddaughter of the Juan "el primero". I have long speculated Leonor to be a daughter of this Nicolás but havent had a chance to get into the pilot site because (this month was extremely busy) Nicolás at least had Juan, Nicolás (II) and (Clara de Anaya (II)) de Ávila. As far as Isabel Esparza o Ramírez, I think she might be daughter of Cristóbal Ruiz de Esparza but need to actually check some films on the pilot site. Just some thoughts DO NOT TAKE THIS AS WORD!!!!! -Daniel

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Comment

George,
The information came from following records:
1) Beatriz Medina (baptismal record), April 16 1687, Aguascalientes; parents Christobal de Medina and Maria de Avila. JPG available.
2) "Informacion Matrimonial" for Beatris de Medina and Joseph de los Reyes (3 JPG files also available) a month prior (13 Feb 1709) to their wedding date (11 March 1709) .

It reads as follows (in the original spelling): "En la Ciudad de Nuestra Sra de los Sacatecas a treze de febrero de mill setecientos y nuebe años su ? el señor Dr. Don Diego Camacho y Avila Arsobispo Obispo de Guadalajara Nuevo Reyno de la Galicia del Consi? de su Majestad, y su Predicador ? señor estando en su actual visita haviendo visto el los autos de Informacion de la verdad de echos para el Matrimonio que pretenden contraer Joseph de los Reyes hijo legitimo de Antonio de los Reies y de Isavel de Esparza ya difunta, y Beatris de Medina hija legitima de Christobal de Medina y Maria de Avila ya difunta, ambos pretensos

Comment

In any of those records, is there a mention of a Clara de los Reyes or
any Villavicencios? Thanks, Marge:)

On Feb 22, 2009, at 1:27 AM, alvaradj@comcast.net wrote:

George,
The information came from following records:
1) Beatriz Medina (baptismal record), April 16 1687, Aguascalientes;
parents Christobal de Medina and Maria de Avila. JPG available.
2) "Informacion Matrimonial" for Beatris de Medina and Joseph de los
Reyes (3 JPG files also available) a month prior (13 Feb 1709) to
their wedding date (11 March 1709) .

It reads as follows (in the original spelling): "En la Ciudad de
Nuestra Sra de los Sacatecas a treze de febrero de mill setecientos y
nuebe años su ? el señor Dr. Don Diego Camacho y Avila Arsobispo
Obispo de Guadalajara Nuevo Reyno de la Galicia del Consi? de su
Majestad, y su Predicador ? señor estando en su actual visita haviendo
visto el los autos de Informacion de la verdad de echos para el
Matrimonio que pretenden contraer Joseph de los Reyes

Comment

Marge,
   Regarding your question about Clara de los Reyes or Villavicencios, no mention that I am aware of.

Jaime
----- Original Message -----
From: "Marge Vallazza"
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2009 2:23:05 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Christobal de Medina and Maria de Avila

In any of those records, is there a mention of a Clara de los Reyes or  
any Villavicencios?  Thanks, Marge:)

On Feb 22, 2009, at 1:27 AM, alvaradj@comcast.net wrote:

George,
The information came from following records:
1) Beatriz Medina (baptismal record), April 16 1687, Aguascalientes;  
parents Christobal de Medina and Maria de Avila. JPG available.
2) "Informacion Matrimonial" for Beatris de Medina and Joseph de los  
Reyes (3 JPG files also available) a month prior (13 Feb 1709) to  
their wedding date (11 March 1709) .

It reads as follows (in the original spelling): "En la Ciudad de  
Nuestra Sra de los Sacatecas a

Comment

I have Antonio de los Reyes (I cant find him on the IGI for some reason) as son of Luís de los reyes and Juana Tiscareño de Molina. Luís' parents are Luís de Murguía and María de la Cruz. Juana's parents are uknown. -Daniel

Comment

Daniel,
When you list Juana's parents as unknown, do you mean we have not been able to locate the information or that her parents were 'desconocidos'?

Jaime

----- Original Message -----
From: "mendezdelcamino"
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2009 9:22:42 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Christobal de Medina and

I have Antonio de los Reyes (I cant find him on the IGI for some reason) as son of Luís de los reyes and Juana Tiscareño de Molina. Luís' parents are Luís de Murguía and María de la Cruz. Juana's parents are uknown. -Daniel

Comment

Jaime
Contact me....this is my line, maybe I have something you may not have.?
mmg8938@aol.com
Mickey

In a message dated 2/20/2009 11:10:05 A.M. Central Standard Time,
alvaradj@comcast.net writes:

Christobal de Medina married Maria de Avila (Abila) on May 2 1666 in
Aguascalientes. In their marriage record their parents are not listed, and
unfortunately the images of Marriage Licenses (Informacion Matrimonial) in the LDS
Pilot site begin that year, but two months latter. So, I've hit a road block.
However, there is some additional information that may help.
They had a daughter Beatriz de Medina de Avila b. 16 April 1687 married on
March 11 1709 to Joseph de Reyes her cousin in 3rd degree, son of Antonio de
los Reyes and Isabel de Esparza. The 'informacion matrimonial' refers to
their relationship, they receive a 'dispensa' but no more details of how they are
related. I've also in a road block with the Reyes-Esparza marriage, as I am
unable to locate their

Comment

Jaime

I also have a descent from Beatriz de Medina and Joseph de los Reyes, but my information is slightly different.

According to my sources (Aguascalientes church records), Joseph de los Reyes' parents are Antonio de los Reyes and Isabel Ramirez. I have only looked at the baptismal/marriage/death records for for my line and not all the others. I have not yet looked at the informacion matrimonial.

What record identifies Isabel as Isabel de Esparza? Is it the informacion matrimonial? Can you place her in the Ruis de Esparza family?

How do you identify Beatriz as the daughter of Christobal de Medina and Maria de Avila? The marriage record (11 Mar 1709) does not name her parents. There is a marginal note "velose en 28 de Abril de 1709," but I have not yet looked to see if there is a separate entry for this.

George Fulton
gp13@aol.com
Pleasanton, CA

Comment

In a message dated 2/20/2009 11:10:05 A.M. Central Standard Time,
alvaradj@comcast.net writes:

Christobal de Medina married Maria de Avila (Abila) on May 2 1666 in
Aguascalientes. In their marriage record their parents are not listed, and
unfortunately the images of Marriage Licenses (Informacion Matrimonial) in the LDS
Pilot site begin that year, but two months latter. So, I've hit a road block.
However, there is some additional information that may help.
They had a daughter Beatriz de Medina de Avila b. 16 April 1687 married on
March 11 1709 to Joseph de Reyes her cousin in 3rd degree, son of Antonio de
los Reyes and Isabel de Esparza. The 'informacion matrimonial' refers to
their relationship, they receive a 'dispensa' but no more details of how they are
related. I've also in a road block with the Reyes-Esparza marriage, as I am
unable to locate their marriage record.
There is also a Bernabe Medina, son of Christobal Medina and Maria Avila,
who married

Why are we doing genealogy?

I just wanted to ask the group, why are we doing genealogy? I have been asked ti give a talk about why we do genealogy? It has made me think, about why I started my genealogy about 30 years ago. And I just wanted to get, some more ideas or thoughts from the group members.

Comments

Comment

I am third generation and so I had a mother, (father died when I was 3) who was fully Mexican-American, she only spoke English to her children, Spanish to her family and Spanglish with her friends.

Like my husband with the same experience-- we are 3rd and 4th generation, depending which side you count, our parents did not have any interest in Mexico. They were children of the Great Depression and served in World War II, some in WWI.

I will never understand why not.

When I was about 8 my father's birth certificate was taken out and I was thrilled, just thrilled to see this absolutely exotic name where my paternal grandfather was born: Teocaltiche, Jalisco. It took me until 1994 searching LDS records to find my grandfather's baptismal record.
Also, my maternal grandmother had for her era done an awful thing by deserting her husband, my natural grandfather in San Antonio Texas and getting a divorce. I always hated being the half-cousin and half niece. My step-grandfather

Comment

Oh, yes, I forgot to add that genealogy enabled me to discover where
the policystic kidney disease entered our family in Scotland, Canada,
and the US. My mother's father and 2 of his brother's died of it.
Two of my mother's sisters had it and died of its consequences. My
aunt Margaret had eight kids, five had PKD but are still alive because
medical treatment is much better. My aunt Sheila's only child has it
and, although married, my cousin does not want children so as to not
pass this on to them. Blessedly, none of my sisters nor I have it. It
came in through my ancestress Margaret--my great-great-great
grandmother. I'd never have found where the PKD came in at earlier
because the records in Scotland weren't made available sooner than I
found them.:) Marge V.:)
On Feb 21, 2009, at 11:42 AM, mexicanfhr wrote:

I just wanted to ask the group, why are we doing genealogy? I have
been asked ti give a talk about why we do genealogy? It has made me
think

Comment

I started doing genealogy when I was a child, only I didn't know
that's what I was doing. I was gathering information from the elders
in my father's family. I was the only child allowed to eat at the
grownups' dinner table because I kept quiet and didn't squirm around.
Then when I was a little older I asked questions specifically about
family and then quit cold turkey for years until I was in my 30s where
I did some oral interviews with my mother AND my father, separately.
Then in my 40s, I went whole hog (and having learned from my then-job
how to conduct data gathering, interviews, and citation techniques)
and learned a whole lot!!!!

Isn't it funny that someone (with the initials MLE :) ) with an
unusual surname (which I discovered is in my ancestry) wished for a
common surname, whereas, I, who had a super common Spanish surname
always loved my great-grandmother's surname of Saldivar, just because
it WAS so unusual. And it was THAT surname and the

Comment

Jonathan,

I started doing genealogy back in the early 80s when I used to take my mother to see her siblings in Los Angeles and in New Mexico. My father had passed 20 years before.

I used to listen to my mother and her siblings speak that New Mexican lingo that my father, who was from Zacatecas and spoke good Castellan, would so often criticize. My husband, descended from Altenos, also criticized their Spanish. Those "Manitos", as they called themselves, were a breed all their own. I discovered through my research that they were descended from Pueblo Indian tribes and Spaniards of hidden Jewish descent. I found a cousin who was a war captain for our tribe of Piro-Manso-Tewa. They didn't like the Mexicans "del otro lado" and vice-versa.

My mother had to learn to cook "Mexican" food when she moved to California. Her people had been isolated in the pueblos of New Mexico since the 1600s when they had been baptized and Hispanicized. I was able to trace their ancestry back to

Comment

For me it started almost 5 years ago, when I was 12. In church we were taught it was important to know where we come from and from whom. I have a couple of Mulatto (half black/half white) lines, mestizos, couple of native American and spanish lines. What a mix! For me I started because my grandfather and mother were both doing genealogy and I caught the bug at age of 12. As i go through my geenalogy I can almost feel them its a special feeling that I cannot describe. Knowing that all tthose who have died and are still alived made me. We can know our roots and take them into the future. From genealogy I have learned were I come from and where I will go. Also it is for my future descendants.
-Daniel Méndez Camino

Comment

I originally thought mulatto meant half black and half white. But being black is relative and on a slope. When I found a mulatto in the family I assumed that he was half black and half white. My assumption was wrong. this identified mulato was the son of another mulatto and from the look at the information this second mulatto was himself the son of another mulatto and a "white " person. This made the first mulatto found in the line at the most one eighth black and 7/8 ths white and possibly even less black. It also works the other way. Today you can claim descendency from an indian tribe if you are 1/8 here in the United States. In some areas in Mexico, The early spanish/mexicans felt you were whatever you had 7/8 of so if you were 1/8 indian and 7/8 white than you can claim to be white. In other areas they would look at your skin color and decide from that. therefore you could have full siblings classified differently according to their percieved skin color.

______________________

Comment

My grandparents and later my parents were into family history. My
grandmother made coloring books of our ancestors. A basic character with
clothing that told us about the person. She later stitched these images
on a quilt. When my mother started she would tell the same stories over
and over. I thought, family history was for old people and some day I
would be involved in it. Today at 30 I don't feel so old, but I am a very
passionate genealogist. I am working on my husbands lines. This venture
has healed the relationships I have had with his family. I'm not sure
what the problem was to begin with.......but those hard feeling have gone
away. I am learning about the living and those who have passed. My
husband knew he was related to people but he could never tell me there
names or how. Now I remind him, I take him to visit.......These are
wonderful people who have stories, wisdom, thoughts that enrich our
lives. And sometimes we discover unpleasant things as well, but I am no
ones judge

Comment

Jonathan, why did you start doing genealogy?
 
Linda in Everett

--- On Sat, 2/21/09, mexicanfhr wrote:

From: mexicanfhr
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Why are we doing genealogy?
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Saturday, February 21, 2009, 9:42 AM

I just wanted to ask the group, why are we doing genealogy? I have been asked
ti give a talk about why we do genealogy? It has made me think, about why I
started my genealogy about 30 years ago. And I just wanted to get, some more
ideas or thoughts from the group members.

Jonathan

Comment

About 20 years ago at a Castanon family reunion I noticed my grandmother Juana Sanchez Castanon crying quietly as she watched the family.  I asked her why and she said that in 50 years there would not be a Mexican left in our family. A great number of my generation, including me had married into so many different nationalities we look like a United Nations but very few spoke Spanish, had the classic dark features refered to as Mexican looking and our children did not claim Hispanic heritage at all.  I was one of the few remaining grandkids who understood some Spanish but did not speak it either.  I was also from a generation that did not take pride in our heritage since we were told we were different, inferior and only good for labor by our community.  I felt it my "calling" to try to learn what our history was. I've been working on this quest for 15 years now.  I not only have an immense sense of pride in myself and my ancestors but have a sense
of responsibility to those who came

Comment

I got the genealogy bug 20 years ago when my kids were little and we got our
first video camera. I started interviewing my parents, aunts, uncles,
grandmother, and grandaunts, and eventually graduated to researching
ancestors when I learned about familysearch.org. Like Angelina, it was a
way for me to stay connected to my large, extended family, since they are in
California and I've been on the East Coast for 31 years now. Many of my
relatives are on my group email list. I'm able to share my small successes
with them and invariably at least one responds. But there is a real
spiritual component to this quest. I feel like I really honor each one of
my ancestors and past family members by finding them, saying their names
again, fitting them into our family tree. I like to think that somewhere in
the spirit world they are smiling, happy to be remembered, relieved to be
included.

On Sat, Feb 21, 2009 at 12:42 PM, mexicanfhr wrote:

>
> I just wanted to ask the group, why are we

Comment

Jonathan,

Funny.

I've been asking myself why I WOULD want to seek my ancestry. I haven't done much but, what little history I know of the "conquest" is that these invaders didn't really bring their women and families to settle Nueva Espana in the way the English did. Especially in the beginning, they mostly raped the indigenous women and killed the ones that would try to fight them off. Much like the slave owners in the united states, many were raped by their European slavemasters, impregnated and left for dead. It's been said that "the Child is what the Mother is." I suspect it would be much more difficult to trace the lineage of our mother's mother's mother... How many Mestizos are the result of rape whether married or not? Sure science says a father is a father but, I don't know if I would consider a man who raped my mother and left her for dead to be my father.

I'm not putting genealogy down, these are just questions I've asked myself and because of Jonathan's question

Comment

Victor, tengo mucha información de los Casillas, quisá tenga algo de tu rama.
Victor, I have information about the Casillas, I may have some of your brench.

Ruben Casillas M.

--- El sáb 21-feb-09, Victor Casillas escribió:

De:: Victor Casillas
Asunto: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Why are we doing genealogy?
A: general@nuestrosranchos.org, general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Fecha: sábado, 21 febrero, 2009, 4:01 pm

Jonathan,

Funny.

I've been asking myself why I WOULD want to seek my ancestry. I haven't
done much but, what little history I know of the "conquest" is that
these invaders didn't really bring their women and families to settle Nueva
Espana in the way the English did. Especially in the beginning, they mostly
raped the indigenous women and killed the ones that would try to fight them off.
Much like the slave owners in the united states, many were raped by their
European slavemasters, impregnated and left for dead. It's been said that
"the Child is what the Mother is." I

Comment

Ruben Casillas,

Thank-you, I do know that my father was born in El Valle de Guadalupe or very close to there. I suspect that I too, can trace my Casillas lineage to Martin Casillas, builder. I've heard that there is or was a book in print about that lineage by Albert Casillas. I am interested in purchasing that book, if available. As I said below I would like to know if my mother's mother etc. is european or indigeonous but, this has proven to be much more difficult to trace.

Victorx

> Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2009 14:33:48 -0800
> From: rubenazo_casillas@yahoo.com.mx
> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Why are we doing genealogy?
>
> Victor, tengo mucha información de los Casillas, quisá tenga algo de tu rama.
> Victor, I have information about the Casillas, I may have some of your brench.
>
> Ruben Casillas M.
>
> --- El sáb 21-feb-09, Victor Casillas escribió:
>
> De:: Victor Casillas
> Asunto: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Why are we doing

Comment

When I was a little kid my grandfather Hermenegildo Romo Franco used to to take me with him to visit people all over the valle de guadalupe, and later tepatitlan. My grandfather died but when I went to el valle I would go around visting people and they would remember that I was Mere's grandson and welcome me in their homes. Sometimes I would make these visits with my tio abuelo, el Doctor Rito Romo Franco. He would tell me that this person was my second cousin because of so and so, and that person was my aunt bcause and so on. He would show me his genealogy records and talk on and on about family. These memories of my grandfather and uncle inspired me to keep visiting all the people and I have made life long friends and memories. After my tio Rito died I started keeping my own genealogy records. I started just by collecting other peoples work. I began finding inconsistencies in the different genealogies and started researching to find the correct information. I never planned on making

Comment

Hello to Everyone,my reason was kinda of a wierd . I grew up in a mexican neighborhood and constantly being told I didn't look mexican ,what happened to me.. I too wondered why looked the way I did ,light complexion, hazel eyes. I began to notices my extended family on my dads side 98 % light,my grandmother with a green eye and blue eye.My maternal grandfather was very dark but it was frustrating I allowed people to make me feel odd.I began to ask questions ,study history of mexico and tracing my ancestors ,to find my answer.

Chinese Proverb:What is a tree without roots,What is a stream without its source ?

Now I know why I look the way I do,and I have met cool new primos in my search.

Ronnie Reynoso, pariente acasi todos de Los Altos de Jalisco

> To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: jonathan@mexicanfhr.com
> Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2009 09:42:21 -0800
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Why are we doing genealogy?
>
>
> I just wanted to ask the group, why are we doing genealogy? I

Comment

Hi Jonathan -

I grew up hearing "stories" from aunts and uncles - unbelievable stories,
such as we were French, Spanish and Indian heritage on my mother's side and
derived from royal blood on my father's side. I wanted to verify these stories.

I grew up in the US - my mother's grandparents died before I was born - they
had come during the time of Revolution, and no aunt or uncle kept in touch
with that side of the family in Mexico (Zacatecas). On my father's side, he
had died when I was a baby - and all of his family lived in Mexico (Coahuila)-
I would hear the aunts and uncles tell us many stories when I visited.

Today, I feel it is as if the ancestors want me to whisper their name and
write it down so they are not forgotten. By the way, I am still looking for
verification of our French blood and trying to verify the royal blood story.
In the meantime, I did discover that I came from a long legacy of educators -
and I am one today - seems like some

Comment

Jonathan,

When I was a little girl we moved to U.S. I didn't like the move because I loved my grandparents so very much and I hated to leave them. Both paternal and maternal. That's when the seed was planted and I wanted to know more about my ancestors. I had a ggg-mother named Maria Dolores Diaz who lived to a ripe old age of 103 - so I am told - I have not verified that. What I do know is that she made my clothes when I was a baby. She used to make beautiful knit and crochet clothing for a living and always made extra for me. She would work very hard for 3-4 months straight; would buy more material to make more projects, and would spend the rest of the money on her drinking binges until all the money was gone. Then she would start all over again. :-)

Another ggg-father named Jose Rafael Lopez Aguilar lived to 102 and I did take a picture of the little cemetery house where he was buried. I come from families that were big in numbers. One of my ggg-aunts had 17 children. My

Comment

For me genealogy began about 10 years ago at my father's funeral. I asked some of my nephews and nieces if they knew my father's father's name. None of them knew. I vowed then not to let my father's ancestors die with him, too.

Jose Carlos de Leon

EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
Join me

> To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: jonathan@mexicanfhr.com
> Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2009 09:42:21 -0800
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Why are we doing genealogy?
>
>
> I just wanted to ask the group, why are we doing genealogy? I have been asked ti give a talk about why we do genealogy? It has made me think, about why I started my genealogy about 30 years ago. And I just wanted to get, some more ideas or thoughts from the group members.
>
> Jonathan

Comment

Hi Jonathan,

My experiences with family history is as follows. I became intensely curious about my ancestry as pre-teenager. I found myself doubting all the oral traditions passed on by my parents and grandparents and their siblings. Growing up is hard enough without adding the element of being treated by everyone else as unacceptably "different." Just like old Sergeant Friday, I wanted just the facts.

Learning the "facts" continues to be a life-altering process for me. I'll be 71 in less than three months. I have been researching off and on since the 1970's. The "facts" continue to surprise me. Curiosity is no longer the force driving my research. I feel a compelling need to understand myself better. I also see the results of investigation as a very worthwhile legacy for my children and their children and so on.

I have come to believe that well-done family history research helps us to include others in our lives. It does not drive wedges between and among us. I could

Comment

Hi there Jonathan,

I always had a yearning for my beginings . When I was 10 yrs. old my dad picked me up from my friends house ( Ramon Palacios ) he lived in front of Roosevelt High School in East Los Angeles . Anyway , as we were driving I asked my dad where my name came from . My name is Welester G. Alvarado . You can only imagine how i took the blows for a name such as mine . All my friends were Henry , Richard , John etc. etc. and here I was with a name like Welester . The kids called me Chester , Dexter , Fester and the list goes on and on .

Well back to my dad and the big question ¨where did my name come from ¨ I was certain that he would tell me . So, I asked ¨hey pop ( that´s what I called my dad ¨ Where did my name come from . He quickly turned and in a very sharp tone said ¨WHY ! don´t you like it ! I slowly slid down the car seat and softly replied .....yes . That was that ! No more questions about my name .

That in short Jonathan made me start to question my

Comment

For me genealogy is a way to connect to family. While I came from a relatively large family (6 kids) we were raised away from our extended family in Mexico. I really enjoyed the few visits we made as kids and relished in the feeling of being surrounded by family. This need to connect with family was intensified when my father died in 2006 and so I discovered genealogy .... I think of my father each time I make another connection, I can picture him sitting next to me sharing the joy of each and every new discovery.

Comment

For me its trying to find out anything about my fathers family. He came to this country as a young man in the late 50's. His father died when he was 7 killed after he was thrown from a horse on their Rancho. His mother dies when I was a baby in 1964. So, anything he can tell me is fading since he is now in his 70's. He has not been close with his family brothers and sisters, although we are now seeing at least some of them. It's been a huge disadvantage to not speak spanish. We have one picture of my Grandmother and none of my Grandfather. So, it's just trying to find out about my Gutierrez/DeLaTorre's. I am very proud of my heritage on my fathers side and all the things he has done in his life. He taught us more than he will ever know, so I would like to answer some questions he has about his family. I have really hit a dead end, hopefully when my Tia is in Acatic she will get some records for us, but who knows.

Cindy Gutierrez

________________________________
From: Angelina

Comment

My genealogy search began about 15 years ago when my kids were babies. It
started out as a search for any of my father's living relatives. His
parents died when he was young and as a teen he lost track of his uncle, who
raised him. As a child, I watched my father search for his brother, sister,
or uncles. They were migrant workers so it was hard to know where any of
them ended up. He never found them.

My father died when I was 13 but I was left with that same feeling of
wanting to know my father's family. Except I had a deeper feeling of
wanting to know the past. As I said, I did start out looking for his
brother and sister but soon ended up looking back. I had never met anyone
from my father's family and I want to be able to at least leave some answers
to my family as to where we came from and who we are. Nothing can ever
replace family stories and actual face to face contact, something I lack
with this side of my family, but I have had some wonderful finds that my
father

Comment

Hello Jonathan,

My father and I started genealogy back in 1987 when he was diagnosed with ALS, also known as Lou Gehrig's disease. His doctors were curious to know if there was a family history of this. My father died in 1988 and his brother followed in death also from ALS. This fueled my desire to find out more about our family. Since beginning, I have now found 31 family members who died from some motor neuron disease such as ALS througout the years as far back as 1850's when it was known as 'creeping paralysis' or 'loco motor ataxia'. This information has allowed us to participate in studies of this disease in pursuit of a cure. Two more family members passed away last year, my dad's aunt and a cousin.

Hope this helps.

Catherine Wood

Comment

Hi Jonathan!

I wish I had started doing genealogy 30 years ago!!! :-) The reason
I do genealogy is probably a selfish one......I only have one
brother.....I come from a small family and always wanted a larger
family......my parents had other ideas!! :-)

I have always had this "yearning" to find the rest of my
family.......although I knew very little about them. It gives me
great satisfaction when I discover a bit of information about them. I
am absolutely overjoyed when I finally meet one of my distant cousins
through genealogy! It is the very best feeling (for me) in this world!

My grandfather (Julian Trevino) was born when his father was age 71
and his mother was age 41! He was the last of 17 children from two
families of my great-grandfather!!! To me it is a great miracle that
I even exist!!! :-) When my grandfather was born he was given to his
padrinos (also his cousins) with the understanding that they never
change his Trevino surname. He was

Ramos families from Ledesma, Ojuelos, Jalisco, Mexico

My grandmother's name was Paula/Pabla Ramos Mascorro.
She had 12 sisters. I only have the name of one sister, Longina/Lonjina Ramos Mascorro, christened on March 23 1863 in Ledesma, Ojuelos, Jalisco, Mexico.

Comments

Comment

David,
You are a God send. Thank you so very much for this information.
They are my relatives, my aunt's, my grandmothers sister's.
I appreciate your time and consideration in helping out another
genealogy researcher.
You're the best.

Sincerely,
Delia

Comment

I just did a quick exact name search and found the following in the IGI.

ANASTASIA RAMOS MASCORRO, 27 APR 1868  Ledesma, Ojuelos,
ANTONIO RAMOS/ JESUS MASCORRO, C602244, 1865 - 1871,  0641030
JUSTA RAMOS MASCORRO, 15 AUG 1870  Ledesma, Ojuelos, Jalisco
MA. PRECILIANA RAMOS MASCORRO, 14 JAN 1866 Ledesma, Ojuelos
Justa and Preciliana have same batch and film numbers.

JUANA RAMOS MASCORRO, 02 JUN 1856  Ledesma, Ojuelos
ANTONIO RAMOS/ JESUS MASCORRO, K602242, 1855 - 1861, 0641028
JERONIMA RAMOS MASCORRO, 07 OCT 1860  Ledesma, Ojuelos
TILANA RAMOS MASCORRO, 10 OCT 1858 Ledesma, Ojuelos
Jeronima and Tilana have same batch as Juana above.

LONJINA RAMOS MASCORRO, 23 MAR 1863 Ledesma, Ojuelos, Jalisco
C602243 1861 - 1865 0641029

Hope this is of help to you. Good luck.

David in Albany, CA

-----Original Message-----
>From: Del
>Sent: Feb 19, 2009 7:32 PM
>To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
>Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ramos families from Ledesma, Ojuelos, Jalisco, Mexico
>
>
>My

Why do we do genealogy?

Hi Jonathan!
I wish I had started doing genealogy 30 years ago!!! :-) The reason I
do genealogy is probably a selfish one......I only have one
brother.....I come from a small family and always wanted a larger

Comments

Comment

Hi Daniel!

Let me know when you get into Nuevo Leon.......I am also researching
the "Liendo" surname and so far have hit a BIG brick wall in Zacatecas
in the 1700s. If you ever see the surname LIENDO anywhere it will
probably tie into my lineage. I know it is pretty common in South
America and Spain but I need to get everything out of Zacatecas before
I go there......Thanks again! Josie in Houston

On Feb 22, 2009, at 2:48 PM, Daniel M�ndez del Camino wrote:

> Hi Josie, I always see the last names you mention all over the
> place! Sagrada Mitra, several books and a bunch of documents. Right
> now I am focusing on

Comment

Hi Josie, I always see the last names you mention all over the place! Sagrada Mitra, several books and a bunch of documents. Right now I am focusing on Los Altos de Jalisco and there "families" (Aguascalientes, Nochistlán. Huanusco, Juchipila, Pinos etc. and Michoacan (Zamora, Tangícuaro, Chilchota, cOtija and Guanajuato (León, Ciudad Manuel DOblado, Silão.) Eventually Ill research the NuevoLeón Spanish families too. Its funny how all of these people are related through marriage and blood! -Daniel

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Comment

Hi Daniel!

Let me know when you get into Nuevo Leon.......I am also researching
the "Liendo" surname and so far have hit a BIG brick wall in Zacatecas
in the 1700s. If you ever see the surname LIENDO anywhere it will
probably tie into my lineage. I know it is pretty common in South
America and Spain but I need to get everything out of Zacatecas before
I go there......Thanks again! Josie in Houston

On Feb 22, 2009, at 2:48 PM, Daniel M�ndez del Camino wrote:

> Hi Josie, I always see the last names you mention all over the
> place! Sagrada Mitra, several books and a bunch of documents. Right
> now I am focusing on

Comment

As I have been thinking about why I started and still do genealogy. Several things have come to mind:

I remember as brand new boy scout, going through my trusty handbook, looking the merit badges. I came across the Genealogy merit badge. I decided that the genealogy merit would be one of my first merit badges. If I remember right it was one of my 5 merit badges. I remember working on it, filling out the pedigree charts and the family group records, visiting the then local genealogical library (now called Family History Centers), seeing the records that they had available.

As I continued into my teenage years, my active interest in genealogy got put onto the back burner. And I didn't pursue any research for several years. But as I was raised in the LDS church, I had several opportunities, to participate in activities, that helped me to think of and to remember, my ancestors.

After I, got married, my wife and I moved to Idaho. Where for some reason, that I don't remember. I

Comment

Hi Jonathan, I like you, earned the same merit badge! This was also another cause but for it me it also started in Primary, where in the March 2002 we had Where Do I come from? Theme for the month. This started verything. At the age of 12 I started being addicted to this sweet marvelous work of the Lord! I remember going with my grandfather and mother who were going to be genealogist but ended up elseqhere on there job spectrum. Ever since then, I have been doing genealogy and its amzaing to see all the people who came before me and now I will take that into my future descdancy to makesure they know where they come from. I most likely will minor in genealogy possibly in college but major in Political Science.

-Daniel Méndez del Camino

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The Lomellini

I'm reading a book titled Rivers of Gold by Hugh Thomas about the Rise and Fall of the Spanish Empire, from Columbus to Magellan.

Chapter 4 begins with the Genoese or Italian explorers and the influence on the Spanish crown. During the early 15th Century the Genoese merchants were dominant in Mediterranean commerce. The Italians were very influential to the Spanish crown as there also happened to be a sitting Genoese Pope, Pope Innocent VIII. whose ancestry was purported to be Genoese on both sides of his family.

Comments

Comment

I've seen the name Casillas on several posts lately - has anyone come across
Francisca Casillas who married Matheo Matias Robalcava in or around
Tepatitlan? Francisca would have died about 1701-1703, as Matheo married for
a second time in 1704. I'd like to find the Casillas-Robalcava marriage
record so I can see who the parents of Matheo are.
Thanks -
Susan Cadena

Comment

Susan, a while back you had asked for a lookup in Jose Luis Vazquez y Rodriguez de Frias' book, Genealogia de Nochistlan.
There is a Mateo de Rubalcava but he was married to Catarina Cortes de Sandoval. Their son, Francisco de Rubalcava in November of 1684, in Nochistlan Zacatecas married Maria Rodriguez de Frias. After a year and a half, he was widowed and he marries, Maria Gutierrez, hija de la iglesia, daugter of the church from Jonacatan.

Here's another quote from this book.

"El 2 de Junio de 1652 en Nochistlan, caso Mateo de rrobalcaba, hijo del Capitan Antonio de Rubalcava y de Leonor Lopez de Elizalde y Burgeño; con Cathalina Cortes, siendo Cortes viuda de Matheo de Rubalcaba de hedad de quarenta años. No olvidemos que existen otros dos Matheo de Rubalcaba: el hijo de Lorenzo de Rubalcava y Catalina Gonzales y el casado con Cecilia Vazquez de Isla. (Capitulo 69) De este matrimonio se han documentado los siguientes cinco vastagos" END OF QUOTE.

It doesn't sound like your

Comment

Susan,
I have copied the text as is written on Page 16 of Capitulo 5. There are quite a few Rubalcavas in this book and as I have time, I will forward the text to you and anyone else in the group who may have some interest in the Rubalcavas.

These are the 5 children of Matheo de Rubalcava, casado con Cecila Vazques de Isla.

1. Geronima o Melchora de Rubalcava y Sandoval, quien caso con Joseph Rodriguez de Frias, hijo legitimo de Juº Rodriguez de Frias y Gertrudes de Amaya (capitulo 15)

2. Matias de Rubalcava. El 2 de Abril de 1656 en Nochistlán fue bautizado Matías de Rubalcaba.

3. Josepha de Rubalcava. El 30 de Junio de 1658 en Nochistlán fue bautizada Josepha hija de Matheo de Rubalcaba i de Catarina Cortés, siendo padrinos Ana Ruis i esteban venegas su herº, siendo testigos benito polanco y diego gonsáles.

4. Juana Rubalcava Cortés. El 27 de Mayo de 1660 en Nochistlán fue bautizada Juana Rubalcaba Cortés, siendo padrinos Juº de Renteria y Cecilia Calderón (posible hermana de

Comment

Hi Alicia,

Thank you so much for the quotes on Rubalcava. It is a name that seems to
come up a lot in records I've seen. I don't think Matias born 1656 (below)
can be the right one, as his second wife Mencia de Agundiz was herself born
1687 and the children with her were born starting 1705. There's probably a
generation missing here.

I notice I also have in my notes an Inés González de Rubalcava who married
Miguel Gutierrez de Hermosillo in Lagos de Moreno on 16 Apr 1654. However
this is yet to be confirmed.
Susan

-----Original Message-----
From: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of Alicia
Carrillo
Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2009 9:52 PM
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] More on Rubalcava

Susan,
I have copied the text as is written on Page 16 of Capitulo 5. There are
quite a few Rubalcavas in this book and as I have time, I will forward the
text to you and anyone else in the group who

Why I do genealogy

For Jonathan:

Why do I do genealogy? For my children and grandchildren, and for myself. Because I grew up with only one grandparent (the others had died long before I was born), there was always this troubling feeling of not knowing where we came from, and what made us what we are. The following two quotations explain this better than I can:

La Tabla de los Mendozas

I made a table about the Mendoza family showing how they married into several prominant spanish families and the many surnames they created. I think it could help us look at the big picture. I've never knew how important this family was.

Comments

Comment

I believe that the infomation that you had on toribio is correct except I have a few questions. was the father's name Juan or luis, i have found 2 sites with the same info as to the wife but one has juan fernandez de hijar and the other has Luis fernandez de hijar . The second may have been a mistake because they list the previous son as also named luis.

The second question is regarding isabel's parents. you list her father as diego hurtado de mendoza can you give me more info and show how they are related There are many diego hurtado de mendoza's I need info to distinguish them.
Thanks
R.A.Ricci

Comment

Now I can see why I did not make the connection with the fernandez de hijar and the ramirez arellano.
In my notes there are questions because two websites have him named our possible father of toribio differently one juan the otherLuis with the same name for the mother. I never did get around to checking on his information on more reliable sources. I still haven't and need to find out the correct name
The main reason that I did not make the connection is that I had erroneously copied some information from a sharr journal listing Isabel as being the daughter of Inigo Hurtado de mendoza and in a different time frame than toribios's parents altogether. After checking out this information it is obvious that she is not the daughter of Inigo and that now that I can put her in the right time frame she matches up with the chidren of Juan/Luis fernandez de hijar

R.A.Ricci

Comment

It supposed to be Juan because he married Juana Ramírez de Arellano, hence the surname Hernandez Arellano but we have the right family. About Isabel and Diego, I go that from a message on the genealogy boards but now I that I have learned a bit more, its impossible for her to be Diego's daughter. All of his kids are well known and there is no Isabel. We should remove the Diego part from the tree. About Toribio, not sure how his last name form, obviously his dad was Fernández (Hernández) de Híjar and his mom was Juana Ramírez de Arellano but did he combine the names when he arrived in Mexico or did the scribe just put him as Toribio Hernández Arellano which was also common to do. Because tecnically the noble women would usually drop the first part of the last name in our case Juana dropped Ramírez and should have just used Juana de Arellano. Maybe since Toribio was younger he dropped the Híjar because that prob went to the line who inherited the title of Conde. Not sure. I do think

Comment

Hi Daniel,

My lomelini data is put away right now. I have tremendous material that I am working that has to be sorted out in regards to the lomellini. there are many different branches and a lot of it is in italian. I have to learn a little bit more italian before I make any speculations on the family. I believe that I should have been quiet about my research on this family but I could not resist letting people know that information will be forthcoming. Sadly I won't even touch until the summer for many reasons.

I go by Rick, Ricardo, Or Ricci any are fine. I never did like Richard though some people call me that and I do not correct them.

On the mendoza table I spoke too soon. I went back and went over my notes. That reason that I said that Inigo Mendoza was not likely to be her father based on notes that I written. I went back and looked at the rest of my notes in more detail and understand the situation a little better now. The original thesis that he was the father was

In reply to by R.A.Ricci (not verified)

Comment

Hi Ricci, I was wondering which Iñigo you are talking about there are several of them Mendoza? Do you know where the source said they arrived in New Spain? Thanks. -Daniel

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In reply to by mendezdetorres

Comment

Inigo Mendoza, 2nd conde de Tendilla who was married to Maria Laso de Fuentes, his first cousin once removed (she was a 1st cousin to his father)
I still have not corroborated this information. The easiest way to find out would be to go spend a couple weeks at salt lake since that is where the source for this information was. He claimed that this material was not filmed.

________________________________

From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org on behalf of Daniel M?ndez del Camino
Sent: Sat 2/21/2009 6:36 PM
To: Patty Hoyos
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] mendoza

Hi Ricci, I was wondering which Iñigo you are talking about there are several of them Mendoza? Do you know where the source said they arrived in New Spain? Thanks. -Daniel

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Comment

I have long suspected that Toribio Hernandez de arellano was a member of the ramirez de arellano line. There are many!!! other reasons to agree with this line!!! I spent a lot of time and effort working fruitlessly when the answer was right under my nose. When working on his tree I made the simple mistake of not remembering that hernandez and fernandez are interchangeable in this period of time.I have done much work on the fernandez de hijar line without even thinking to connect it with toribio Hernandez .I would have come to this same conclusion a long time ago if I had only opened my eyes.
I am a little confused about isabel mendoza parents. I have not spent any time or effort working on this line because I had believed that her father was inigo Hurtado de mendoza? I did not know that there was a questiion about her parents.

R.A.Ricci

Comment

R.A.Ricci
I do not have toribio hernandez parents / grandparents. can you enlighten me as to who they were. I have his wifes information.
Thank you,R.A.Ricci

Comment

I put it under files>>>>>Referance Material

-Daniel Méndez del Camino y Camino

In reply to by mendezdetorres

Comment

R.A.Ricci
I am sorry to bother yo but I could not bfind the table in your files. I found a table that did not have toribio hernandez de arellano's ancestors. I am new to the group and may not be attempting access correctly. Can you help me?

Thanks

Nuestros Ranchos Submission REDUX

Okay folks. Sorry about the sloppy uploads. Joseph was kind enough to show me how exactly to upload my files to my folder only. I also took this opportunity to put together the rest of my great grandmothers pedigree trees. Please look through them and see if we can make a connection.

GALARZA LOPEZ Ma de Jesus.pdf
http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/filemanager/active?fid=2905

GARCIA DE LEON Ma Macedonia.pdf
http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/filemanager/active?fid=2906

MALDONADO CHAVEZ Matilde.pdf
http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/filemanager/active?fid=2907

PEDROZA ROMO Timotea Pedgree.pdf
http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/filemanager/active?fid=2908

ALBA CUEVA Elena.pdf
http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/filemanager/active?fid=2909

MOCTEZUMA Petrolina Pedigree.pdf
http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/filemanager/active?fid=2910

I have other loose trees in my database that I will also be posting soon. They include my surname along with other surnames that appear above. I have not been able to connect to them but hopefully they might help someone else.

ESPANOL: Favor de bajar y revicar estos archivos para ver si podemos acer una conexcion de familia. Tambien tengo otros troncos familiares sueltos con mi apellido y con diferentes apellidos que no e podido conectar a mi tronco familiar. Espero que esta informacion le pueda servir a alguien mas.

Comments

Comment

You skipped one generation. Juan Marin de la penalosa married to ana Herrera are the parents of our Melchor marin de la penalosa that is married to Lucrecia Ocampo (Perez)-[half brother surnamed perez and father seems to be surnamed perez have not continued this line of research though I have the data to follow up on it, lack of time] This Juan Marin de la penalosa is the son of Juan Marin de la Penalosa and Cathalina Arenas. I don't have my notes in front of me but i have a little more info.

R.A.Ricci

Comment

Rick, I don't have any family connections with you or the Altos group except for Daniel who is my cousin through his Mendez side. 
 
You are a wealth of information and share so openly and freely that I just wanted to thank you since I enjoy reading the posts and seeing others find ancestors because of you!  I don't always understand since I don't see the questions that you answer but I still pay attention..
 
just wanted to thank you
Linda Castanon-Long in Everett

--- On Fri, 2/20/09, R.A.Ricci wrote:

From: R.A.Ricci
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Marin de la Pena losa
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Friday, February 20, 2009, 8:56 AM

You skipped one generation. Juan Marin de la penalosa married to ana Herrera
are the parents of our Melchor marin de la penalosa that is married to Lucrecia
Ocampo (Perez)-[half brother surnamed perez and father seems to be surnamed
perez have not continued this line of research though I have the data to follow
up on it, lack of time]

Comment

Thank you for your comments. I will try to provide the questions that I am answering in the future. What happened in the last post is that they had skipped on generation because the father and son had the same name. They had no record of the son Juan Marin de la Pena Losa married to Ana Herrera and had mistakenly referred to the grandparents as the parents
I have many possible books in my notes, my research , and in my head but I doubt that I will ever write them all. I may as well share my information in this way.
I will write a family book soon that would probably be more of an interest to cousins more closely related to me, I guess to 5 th cousins since a lot of the information is focused on the nearer relatives. I will include my relationship to Saint Toribio Romo and to Juan Franco the great teacher of the ranchos between san miguel el alto, valle de gpe and Jalos. and my grandfather Hermeregildo Romo whom many people consider a saint (He was toribio's 3rd cousin.
I am also

In reply to by mendezdetorres

Comment

My notes have him as Carlos' brother. He is also the ancestor of one of miguel Hidalgos lines. Miguel Hidalgo Costilla descends from both brothers. The Lomelin's from Puebla and Mexico City descend from Luis. Back then the records show lomelin. Before that it is Lomellini or lomelini. It wasn't until later that people started dropping the n. In Portugal the lomelin line added an o to make Lomelino. And the stories are true about one branch leaving Genoa , going to Spain and cornering the slave trade there. There rest of the family was into more legitimate businesses.
There is a famous book that uses the Lomelini as the main characters in the book. I have own a copy of the book but I lent it to my niece and she hasn't returned it yet. I have not read it because she was visiting when it arrived and immediately asked to borrow it.

________________________________

From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org on behalf of Daniel M?ndez del Camino
Sent: Fri 2/20/2009 11:46 PM
To

Comment

I need to check my notes but I believe that I may have information on you C arenas Marin de la pena losa. She is may ancestor. I believe i have her parents and grandparents. My wife is calling so i can't look it up for you right now. I also have dates and locations. Tell me what the c stands for.

R.A.Ricci

Comment

Juan marin and Elbira Juarez de Penalosa are the parents of another Juan Marin who married 9/Jan/1583 in Mexico City to Cathalina Arenas the daughter of Juan Gonzalez and Luisa De la Cuevas.

Juan Marin and Cathalina Arenas were the parents of at least 2 children:
Juan Marin De la Pena losa and Catharina (Cathalina) Marin de la Penalosa

Catharina de la penalosa married Joseph de Alba Retamosa, son of Alonso De Alba and Leonor de Retamosa

Leonor de Retamosa was the daughter of Nicolas Macias Valadez and, her namesake Leonor Reramosa.

Joseph de alba and catharina Marin de la penalosa Arenas (she sometimes reversed the surnames) were the parents of at least 2 siblings, Cristobal de alba y arenas and Ildefonso (Alonso) De Alba

You already have Cristobal's info. Ildefonso married jacinta juana Jimenez on the 17/may/1653 in Aguascalientes source299421. I have not had a chance to pull it up yet. if you do can you please let me know what it says.

Ildefonso and jacinta Juana are the

Comment

Juan Marín de Peñaloza y Catalina de Arenas también tuvieron una hija llamada Elvira de Arenas, quien casó en Guadalajara con Martín Casillas y Cabrera el 03 de enero de 1607. Martín es hijo del Alarife Martín Casillas y su mujer Mencia González de Cabrera.

Creo que debe haber un error en la información que nos proporcionas de acuerdo a fechas ya que Manuel de Aldrete y María de la Mora y Mendoza casaron el 02 de febrero de 1698, por tanto su hija María debió nacer después de esta fecha. Y Teresa de Alba (hija de María Valdivia y Juan Antonio de Alba) casó con Manuel Marín de Peñaloza el 22 de septiembre de 1718. El rango de años que hay entre abuela y nieta es muy poca y no puede ser así. Por ahí debe haber un error.

Saludos.
Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.

_________________________________________________________________
Live Search premia tus búsquedas, llévate hasta ¡Un Auto!
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Comment

De donde sacaste la fecha de matrimonio de 22/sep/1718, donde se casaron y que es el numero del rollo para investigar. yo no he visto esta acta

R.A.Ricci

Comment

Maria josepha marin de la pena losa arenas se caso en 23/sep/1768 en Guadalajara, Jalisco y tuvo hijos. no creo que sus padres se casaron en 1718.

Maria Thomaza Cardenas y Mendoza y Marin se bautizo el 25/sep/1771 en Guadalajara
la distancia es muy grande de 1718 a 1771 par estas circunstancias puede ser pero no probable. Por eso creo que la fecha de 1718 no esta bien. R.A.Ricci

Comment

Hola Jorge,
revise tu familia, yo tambien desciendo de jose domingo padilla y Perez de Paredes y maria juliana cobarubias Gonzalez Rubio. Tambien desciendo de Salvador Ygnacio Ramirez de Hermosillo y Gutierrez de Laris Y Josefa martin del Campo y Perez de Paredes

Me podrias decir se tienes informacion sobre Josef Antonio Cobarubias casado con Ynes Gpe Gomez el 30 de marzo 1750 en Guad El es el abuelo paterno de Juliana

Tambien quiero juntar toda la informacion de los descendietes de Salvador Ramirez y Josefa Martin. Muchas de las familias Vallalupenses y familias de Pegueros que se venieron a California descienden de esta pareja.
R.A.Ricci

Comment

Yo tengo apuntado 8 hijos en mis notas para Ygnacio salvador Ramirez y Josefa martin del Campo. Tengo infomacion matrimonial de mas de la mitad. quiero juntar la infomacion de todos los descendietes de esta pareja.
R.A.Ricci

Comment

I also have Melchor Marín de Peñaloza as son of Juan and Catalina de Arenas. This Melchor was spouse of Lucrecia ???? and had Nicolás M. d. Pñz. who was baptized 3 sep 1648 in Aguas who had Manuel M. d. Pñz baptized 14 sep 1687 in Teocaltiche who married Teresa de Alba (oviously a distant cousin) who had Antonio M. de Pñz who married Teresa Gert. Anda Altamirano there marriage took place in 20 oct 1750 in Jalos. This is as far as I have gotten down on this line. Hope this helps. I got all of this on familysearch, for Melchor there isnt a film number just apprx. dates. Not really helpful but it works for me.
-Daniel Camino

_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live Hotmail now works up to 70% faster.
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Comment

You skipped one generation. Juan Marin de la penalosa married to ana Herrera are the parents of our Melchor marin de la penalosa that is married to Lucrecia Ocampo (Perez)-[half brother surnamed perez and father seems to be surnamed perez have not continued this line of research though I have the data to follow up on it, lack of time] This Juan Marin de la penalosa is the son of Juan Marin de la Penalosa and Cathalina Arenas. I don't have my notes in front of me but i have a little more info.

________________________________

From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org on behalf of Daniel M?ndez del Camino
Sent: Thu 2/19/2009 11:34 PM
To: Patty Hoyos
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Marin de la Pena losa

I also have Melchor Marín de Peñaloza as son of Juan and Catalina de Arenas. This Melchor was spouse of Lucrecia ???? and had Nicolás M. d. Pñz. who was baptized 3 sep 1648 in Aguas who had Manuel M. d. Pñz baptized 14 sep 1687 in Teocaltiche who married Teresa de Alba

Gracias \ Some

Rick,
Being from the "norte", where relatives have confirmed our Jewish legacy via
word of mouth, and verified later by DNA - I am very interested in how the
Jewish legacy might have continued in Los Altos, however guised.