Images for Batch M60575-1

I am looking for the images that correspond to the indexed records for

Comments

Comment

Hello Mr. Alvarez.

The corresponding images to some of the indexed records in batch M60575-1 can be found on images 95 to 138 in film no. 654371. There are marriage records for "El pueblo de Apaseo y sus sujetos", years 1589 to 1616.

(Link to image 95 film 654371: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33S7-9G6V-D3X)

Example: The first marriage record in the image (miguel Buraqua and Clara guaxo, 11 Apr 1589) is one of the indexed records:

Name: Miguel
Sex: Male
Spouse's Name: Clara
Spouse's Sex: Female
Marriage Date: 11 Apr 1589
Marriage Place: San Juan Bautista, Apaseo el Grande, Guanajuato, México
Digital Folder Number: 4786295
Microfilm Number: 654418
Originating System: ODM
Indexing Batch: M60575-1

Citing this Record
"México matrimonios, 1570-1950", database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JC39-V5B : 20 May 2021), Miguel, 1589.

Hope this may be of some help.

Rubén

In reply to by Ruben_Hdez

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Thank you very much for your help Mr. Hernández. You shared exactly what I was looking for. Muchísimas gracias.

I found the image I wanted to see. It is for the marriage between Miguel Domínguez de Espejo and Isabel Gómez Maldonado.

I am wondering what it says after Miguel Domínguez's name. Could it be? "...sobrinos de pe[d]ro muñoz de espejo y de ju[an]a gomez su muger, v[ecinos] de apatzeo"

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I just want to add that the indexed records are for marriages for San Juan Bautista, Apaseo el Grande, Guanajuato, México from about the year 1590 to 1620.

Ramirez in Ayo/Arandas

I've hit a brick wall with a RAMIREZ line I'm currently researching. I'm looking for the parents of Nicolas RAMIREZ and his spouse Maria de la Concepcion MORALES/MORONES/MORANTES.

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I just broke through this brick wall with a related dispensa matrimonial.

Tronco: Marcelo Ramírez
Hijos: Agustín Ramírez -- Tadeo Ramírez
Nietos: Nicolás Ramírez -- José Antonio Ramírez
Bisnietos: Nicolás Ramírez -- María de Jesús Ramírez
Ternietos: Manuel Ramírez -- María Josefa Ramirez

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Here is record on www.familysearch.org there are 7 children some married and one has the name of another morones as padrinos. that might help. Since it seems they had children from 1731 to about 1750 and records have not been indexed. Going through marriages images might be necessary for the years prior to 1731.

Nicolas Ramires
1704–Deceased • LHXP-G7V​
Maria De La Consepcion Morones
1715–Deceased • LHXP-G9V

On another note. It was easy to get to the records by clicking on the year. That is new to me, how did you accomplish it?

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Thank you for your tip. I’ll take a look at the marriage records for 1731 and prior.

Regarding your question, I used HTML tags to make it easy for anyone to click to the record. Right before I was about to post, I noticed the line beneath the comment field that said - “More information about formatting options.”

I clicked on More information about formatting options and I used the information there to add HTML tags to my post.

I was worried it might not work, so I tested it out here first, then posted it.

Retoños de España de la Nueva Galicia

Retoños de España de la Nueva Galicia is a 10-volume set that we are selling by individual volumes.

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Hi Carlos,

I see Tomo 2 - 7. Did I miss Tomo 1? Also, on the order form for Casas & Familias de la Vieja Valladolid it still says Retoños.

Danny

JUAN GOMEZ TERRAZAS

ALGUIEN TENDRA INFORMACION DE JUAN GOMEZ TERRAZAS CASADO CON ANTONIA DE MENDOZA O ANTONIA GOMEZ DE MENDOZA, QUE ENTRE SUS HIJOS QUE NACIERON A PRINCIPIO DE LOS 1700 SON:

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Comment

Hola! Haz podido encontrar informacion adicional? Yo desciendo de ellos.

Comment

Hola,

Yo soy decendiente directo de esta familia... o sea que somos familia :)

Pudiste averiguar mas?

In reply to by sandragomezenriquez

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Esta no es mi linea directa de los Gomez, mi primer Gomez es Manuel Gomez de Mendoza, pero creo que siendo Gomez de una u otra forma se llagan a emparentar.

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Hola Víctor, lo mas probable, aunque aún no lo tengo comprobado es que Juan Gómez de Terrazas sea hijo de Juan Gómez de Terrazas y María Cisneros, también llamada María Espinoza. Fueron vecinos tanto de Cuquío como de Tepatitlán. Eran mulatos. Antonia de Mendoza a veces aparece como Antonia de Torres también y tenía una hermana llamada Andrea, casada con un Plascencia.

Looking for confirmation of Regina de Villaseñor Cuevas parents

I found a post claiming an ancestry of Regina Villaseñor Cuevas. I was am hoping for a discussion on its validity

The post is attributed to Jorge Luis Ramirez Gomez

Here it is:

Comments

Comment

1). Queen of England and France, Eleanor of Aquitane (b.abt1122), (d.1/Apr/1204) + Henry II Plantagenet, King of England
2). Princess of England, Leonore Plantagenet Queen consort of Castilla (b.13/Oct/1162, d.October/1214) + Alfonso VIII "el noble", King of Castilla
3). Berenguela I "la Grande", Queen of Castilla (d.8/Nov/1246) + Alfonso IX, "el Baboso" King of León and Galicia (b.15/Aug/1171), (d.24/Sep1230)
4). Alfonso de León, Señor de Molina y Mesa (b.1202) + Teresa Perez de Braganza [mistress]
Some genealogists name Urraca’s mother as Alfonso’s 3rd wife, Mayor Alfonso de Meneses.
5). Urraca Alfonso de Molina (b.abt 1233) + Garci Gomez de Carillo, señor de Ormasa
6). Garcia de Carillo.Señor de Ormasa y Mazuelo, (b. ca. 1266) + Elvira Alvarez de Osorio
7). Juana Garcia Carillo y Álvarez Osorio + Diego Gutierrez de Ceballos
8). Elvira Alvarez de Ceballos and Fernan Perez de Ayala, IX Sr. De Ayala
9). Juana Garcia de Ayala (Aka Fernández de Ayala aka de Ayala) married in

Comment

Here are two interesting court cases that may shed light on the ancestry of Pedro Yanguas and on the identity of the mother of Ana Carillo De Peralta Regada and of her half sister Ana De Peralta

First Case:
* Título: 
PEDRO DE YANGUAS Y ANA CARRILLO DE PERALTA contra GASTON DE PERALTA
* Serie: 
Procesos judiciales. Ochoa-Sentenciados
* Productor: 
CORTE MAYOR DE NAVARRA
* Fechas: 
1547.01.28 - 1547.08.12
* Lugar:
LOGROÑO - LA RIOJA - ESPAÑA
FALCES - NAVARRA - ESPAÑA
* Contenido: 
Pedro de Yanguas, regidor perpetuo de la ciudad de Logroño, y Ana Carrillo de Peralta, su mujer, contra Gaston de Peralta, marques de Falces, sobre entrega de 2.000 ducados de dote ofrecidos en el testamento de Alfonso Carrillo de Peralta, marques de Falces.

Second case:

Título: ANA DE PERALTA contra GASTON DE PERALTA
Serie: Procesos judiciales. Solano-Pendientes
Productor: CONSEJO REAL DE NAVARRA
Fechas: 1547.12.02 - 1553.12.31
Lugar:
Traibuenas - MURILLO EL CUENDE - NAVARRA - ESPAÑA
Rada - MURILLO EL

Comment

Regina Villaseñor de la Cuevas’s descent from royalty through her Peralta ancestors.

A few notes labeled A through H before the tree.

Note A.
A small minority claim that García Martínez Peralta and Ana Sánchez Ruiz de Azagra are the parents of “Mosén Pierres de Peralta “el Viejo”.

Many people claim that 2.”Mosén Pierres de Peralta, el Viejo” was the illegitimate son of Charles II De Navarro d’ Evereaux.

Both are mistaken as their is an extra generation which shows that Mosen Pierre De Peralta “el Viejo” (Pedro Perez de Peralta) is a grandson of both García Martínez Peralta and Ana Sánchez Ruiz de Azagra and king Carlos II “el malo” and queen Juana De Francia

Note B
Geronimo Lopez “el Mozo” and his wife, Ana Carillo de Peralta came from the upper high class. Their immediate descendants married into other upper high class society like the Villaseñor, Lomelin, Santiago, Ovande, Alvarez Nuñez, Rivadeneyra, and Cervantes families to name some of them.

Note C
The Diego Coria III

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1). Alfonso Fernandez Villaseñor and Elvira Osórez (daughter of Fernando Osórez maestro de Santiago)

2). Fernan A. Villaseñor and Aldonza Gutierrez de Tapia

3). Diego Villaseñor alcaide de Segovía married to Maria Serones (Seron)(Seronis)

4). Juan Villaseñor Serones and Elvira de Tovar y Enriquez de Castilla

5). Diego de Villaseñor-Tovar and Isabel Alfonso de Villaseñor

6). Diego Villaseñor-Tovar"de Burgos" and Guiomar de Orosco y Sandoval

7). Juan de Villaseñor-Tovar y Orosco and Catalina Cervantes y Lara de Andrada

8). Francisco de Villaseñor y Cervantes and Leonora Gasca y Reus

9). Miguel de Villaseñor Orosco and Maria de Figueroa y Bañuelos

10). José de Villaseñor Figueroa and 2nd wife, Bernarda de Lomelí y Peralta

11). María de Villaseñor y Lomelín and Francisco de Cuevas Carvajal

12). Regina Ines Villaseñor Cuevas (aka Cuevas Villaseñor) was born about 1670. She died prior to April 5, 1720.. She was married to Miguel de Hermosillo (aka Miguel Gonzalez de Hermosillo

Comment

It is tempting to just accept Jorge's statement since genealogist Enrique Carvajal Ayala has done extensive work on this line. But the goal is the truth so it is important to question the existence of two marriage records of Regina/ Ines Villaseñor de Cuevas to a Gonzalez de Hermosillo. Jaime Holcombe stated that the marriage record of 2/Feb/1689 was with Miguel Gonzalez the Hermosillo. The person who indexed the record typed in Luis de Ermo (Hermosillo). I haven't been able to find the record to see what says. The second record does name the groom as Miguel yet here the bride is Ines

Rick A. Ricci

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I have been working on the genealogical tree of my son's mother and found as his ancestors Regina de la Cueva Villaseñor married to Miguel de Hermosillo Camarena in La Barca in february 1689, a daughter of them, Isabel de Hermosillo Cueva (1706-1736) married to Joaquín Gutierrez Laris in 1723 is in the ancestry line (8° grade) of my son. I found this today and realized it may be related to the subject of this thread. Anyway, I am going to go into it in more detail.

Comment

Here is where Reginas record is supposed to be according to Jaime Holcombe but my eyes are too tired and I can't find it.

Regina De La Cueva I Villasr.
mentioned in the record of Luis ... De Ermo and Regina De La Cueva I Villasr.
Name Luis ... De Ermo
Spouse's Name Regina De La Cueva I Villasr.
Event Date 02 Feb 1689
Event Place La Barca,Jalisco,Mexico
CITING THIS RECORD

"México matrimonios, 1570-1950," database, FamilySearch(https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JC84-CSQ : 15 July 2015), Luis ... De Ermo and Regina De La Cueva I Villasr., 02 Feb 1689; citing La Barca,Jalisco,Mexico, reference ; FHL microfilm 281,070.

Jorge states that Regina is also known as Ines. The problem with this is that there is another record with an Ines De la Cueba y Villaseñor marrying a Miguel de Hermosillo from Jalostotitlan. In this record she is the daughter of Francisco de la Cueva and Maria Villaseñor. Why are there two marriage records if they are the same person.
Ines De La Cueba Y

Comment

By mistake I wrote confirmation on the title. I am hoping for a conversation on Reginas parents as I had them as Francisco Villaseñor Cuevas and Maria Lomelin which is different than what is in that post. The father that I have for Francisco is a close relative to the one in Jorge's post. I did not put a source in my notes but I believe that the source may have been Jaime Holcombe. I do descend from the Villaseñor from other lines but those lines are complete. This is my only Villaseñor line that I still question. I forgot to write the source down of the information in my notes.

Rick A. Ricci

Saludos and introduction Dora Escobedo

Hola y saludos! I'm not sure if this is the place to post an introduction. If not, could someone please direct me to the appropriate place to post.

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Comment

Good luck with your research! As many of us I have more than three lines that go back to Diego Romo de Vivar, which is really more common than we may at first think. I have few Flores ancestors, not clearly related between them. Apparently a real cradle for Romo, Flores, Ruiz de Esparza, Luevano, and others is Aguascalientes and Rincón de Romos is a place to look for roots. Many migrated to Zacatecas very early, when Aguascalientes was not yet a State. Escobedo is more common in Zacatecas.

GEDCOM, new user

Hi, I'm new to the website and was trying to find out how to create GEDCOM files online? I can't seem to actually open any of those links, only hover over them to see what's there.

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I easily created my gedcom file in geneanet but to do so you must first create your tree there, then export it as gedcom and save it in your computer, then you can export your gedcom file to other sites. I hope this help to answer your question.

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I'm not too sure that the GEDCOM works anymore. I can check with the person who runs the site, but I would assume that it won't work.

Church records of Cañadas de Obregon? Perez family?

Has anybody researched in or around Cañadas de Obregon? I'm looking for the church records for this town but they don't come out on familysearch. Were they ever filmed?

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Hello, my parents and grandparents and ancestors came from Villa Obregon. My grandfather Florencio Villalobos had a ranch called "La Campanita" and he went to to Arizona around 1907-1909 with a Mariano Perez and his brother Lucio Perez but my grandfather never returned. He died somewhere in Arizona. My mother lived to 107 yrs. of age and just passed away recently, she told us many stories about Canadas, Jalisco. Did the Mariano Perez you're looking for live around that time?

In reply to by villalobos22

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Hello, I assumed that the Perez family were from Canadas, but another member provided the info that verifies they were from rancho del Papalote near San Juan de Los Lagos. Here's a website that tells some of the story of the Perez family:

http://sanmartintotolan.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=166

It's in Spanish, so I hope you can read it. According to that story, Mariano and his brother or brothers went to work in Arizona for a time. Other brothers, named Oropeza, went to Arizona as well, but they came back to Jalisco much sooner. The Perez brothers sent some cash, clothes and guns for their families with the Oropezas. Apparently, the Oropezas never delivered the stuff to the Perez family in Jalisco. When Mariano and his brothers returned, they found out, and the rest is history. This website's story goes into much more detail.

The death of Mariano, Isidro and Jesus took place in 1911, so it seems like they could be the same people that traveled with your grandfather. Please, share some

Comment

Thanks Steve,

My mother would have been so happy to hear, even a century later, that Lucio and Mariano Perez returned home. They did write his father Ysidro Villalobos regarding Florencio's death. Apparently he died of some illness and consequent surgery. I searched the death records in Globe and Jerome AZ but couldn't find any record of his death.
Yes, my mother told us many stories from her era. I have very descriptive stories about the Oropesas and Jimenez and the "Revoltosos" that took Ysidro's horse and saddle, among other things. I've been working on my family genealogy book since 2004. It's still a work in progress, believe it or not. Since my mother's death in 2013 it's been difficult for me to go back to my books and pile of notes, but I'll certainly share some of the stories with you when I complete writing and re-checking all my notes, which were written at different times.

Thanks for your input.
Merci Gomez Villalobos

In reply to by Steve_G._Apodaca

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Hi Steve,

When you first asked about Canadas, I responded by talking about two scandalous shooting incidents. One of the incidents was the shootings at the river. The other incident sounds like it is the shootout that your family members were in. I did not remember much about the one your family was in except that people were running for their life and that there were lots of bullets flying all over the place. One thing that I do remember was that it was talked about amongst ourselves that it was suspected that my older cousins husband had relatives were involved in both incidents. His last name was Oropesa Lomeli. I had assumed that both shootings involved the Lomelin since I know that the river shooting was done by Lomelis. This other shooting must have involved his other side of the family and not the Lomeli since the posting states that the mans surname was Oropesa.

Your family may have been born in San Juan de los Lagos but the shootings did take place in Canadas de Obregon

Comment

Steve,

These records do exist, but they weren't microfilmed, they begin in 1796. Isidro and his brother Mariano Perez Rueda, as well as their first cousin Jose de Jesus Muñoz Perez were all baptized in San Juan de los Lagos.
Isidro (1879-1911) and his older brother Mariano (1877-1911) were born in El Papalote near San Juan de los Lagos, they weren't from Cañadas de Obregon. Jose de Jesus was born in 1888. They are from the Perez Franco(de Paredes) lineage, not from the Perez Gallo.

Rick

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Hello,
I just read your message about the church records not being microfilmed. I realize your post is from 2015 but was just wondering if you knew how or where to find the church records if they are not online? Thank you for your time.

Comment

I read this thread today and feel that part of it comes close to
crossing the line. Anyone who pulls records on a daily basis is well aware
of who there ancestors are, but to pick out a handful and obsessively focus
on their race, ethnicity and religion and talk of conspiracies and
bloodlines using words like pure, not to mention putting down in writing
stereotypes which are already offensive and certainly don't need repeating,
is unnecessary.

Paige

Comment

Dear Paige

I was not saying these things to offend but as a response to the people who claim that their bloodline is pure and that they don't have judeoconverso ancestors. The ancestor I am speaking of is one that genealogists in Jalisco have been looking for for years. He happens to fit the stereotype that many people attach so they are really going to be bothered by these findings. I look for all my ancestors equally, with no agenda to make them a certain race or religion. This ancestor was involved in what is known as the great conspiracy. Because of what he did, I was able to find records of his ancestry and descendancy.

I am sorry I offended you. I won't write about this ancestor anymore on this site.
I myself am still bothered by someone else's comments about their bloodline being pure

R A Ricci

In reply to by R.A.Ricci (not verified)

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Dear Mr. Ricci,

I would not be offended by a normal discussion of race, religion or
ethnicity in the course of genealogical research. Obviously, as someone
that descends from Españoles, Indios, Mulatos, etc., it would be impossible
to do research without mentioning race. But this wasn't a discussion about
our ancestors that mentioned race, this was a post about race and
stereotypes, that cryptically, doesn't even mention the ancestor in
question, which, is also kind of annoying. Why post something about someone
that you have no intention of ever naming?

Paige

In reply to by R.A.Ricci (not verified)

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Dear Mr. Ricci, is this ancestors in some way related to Lope Ruiz de Esparza? In that case, I, as well as other members would love to hear the details about this ancestor. It is a fact of life that we all have good and bad ancestors, from many different backgrounds. And I appreciate and respect all of them, from the ones with a supposed royal lineage, to the ones that are just mentioned as "de padres no conocidos". Please, I would appreciate it if you provide some names and dates. Even if not related to us, it's always interesting to learn something new.

Steve

In reply to by Steve_G._Apodaca

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Lope Ruiz de Esparza was married to Francsca Gabai

Francisca Gabai is the daughter of Martin Gabai de Navarro nicknamed "el de.Navarro"

Martin Gabai de Navarro belongs to the Gabai family which definitely has judeochristian roots.

R.A. Ricci

In reply to by Steve_G._Apodaca

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Dear Steve
I am in the process of writing down this information and hope to have it ready soon, What high school did you go to. There was a Steve Apodaca at my high school.

Rick A Ricci

In reply to by R.A.Ricci (not verified)

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Hi. Thanks for your reply. I went to Coachella Valley High School. Does that ring a bell?

Steve

In reply to by Steve_G._Apodaca

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Hi Steve ,

No, I did not attend Coachella High School. I am working it on a book where I will provide many interesting stories about some of our ancestors, siblings or close cousins to our ancestors. I had about five different books started but I have decided to put four books aside and just finish one book. The book that i will finish first will have an added connection thanks to information that Chris added about Onofre Joseph Perez Gallo. If any one wants to add their line to the book, they can send me their information and I will add their line after I check for its accuracy. My cousin Dr. Edmundo Andrade Romo has offered to help me out with the publishing of this book and I am taking him up on it. He actually insisted that I finish one book now and take care of the other books later. I actually have two books that are almost 80 percent finished, three books that are 60 percent finished. I will focus on just finishing one, with a second one following soon after.

My

In reply to by Steve_G._Apodaca

Comment

Hi Steve ,

No, I did not attend Coachella High School. I am working it on a book where I will provide many interesting stories about some of our ancestors, siblings or close cousins to our ancestors. I had about five different books started but I have decided to put four books aside and just finish one book. The book that i will finish first will have an added connection thanks to information that Chris added about Onofre Joseph Perez Gallo. If any one wants to add their line to the book, they can send me their information and I will add their line after I check for its accuracy. My cousin Dr. Edmundo Andrade Romo has offered to help me out with the publishing of this book and I am taking him up on it. He actually insisted that I finish one book now and take care of the other books later. I actually have two books that are almost 80 percent finished, three books that are 60 percent finished. I will focus on just finishing one, with a second one following soon after.

My

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George Fulton is correct. I recall a couple of Jalostotitlan records of my family stated that they were born in Canadas (villa de Oregon). I believe that is where you will find the old records. Canadas was small when I was growing up and visited in 1960's. When I visited in the 1980's it had grown quite a bit but still had the small town atmosphere. It is a nice place to visit, very relaxing. I remember going to see the bulls in the old stadium that the people there were very proud of. I don't know if I remember correctly, but canadas was known for its candy stands. The name has gone back and forth, since the formal name was not used by many people.
An uncle of mine owned a ranch between Valle de Guadalupe and Canadas. I remember riding horses there when I was a kid. The first time I rode a horse there, I learned to duck when riding by a tree with low branches when it is windy. it only took a few scratches to learn my lesson. This uncle was married to my maternal aunt. It

Comment

Thanks George Fulton and R A Ricci for your suggestions. I will look into Jalostotitlan and other nearby parishes, hopefully, I will be able to find some information. My wife's paternal grandfather's name was Luis Garcia Perez. He lived in a town in the border with Michoacan called La Ribera, Jalisco. I don't have info on his parents, but several members of my wife's family swear there is a blood relationship between Luis and the Perez from Cañadas. I'm trying to verify or correct this family story. I am aware that oftentimes, family stories may be a little bit exaggerated, but even with those exaggerations, they often have a real origin and many of them are not that far from the truth.

Saludos.

Steve in NC

Comment

Hello, I am also looking for my grandfather Marcelino Jimenez and I believe I found his sister,s 1930 MX Census in Obregon Jalisco and then again in Valle de Guadalupe Jalisco (?) for the exact same date. I know his father's name was Genaro Jimenez and his mother's was Ygnacia Gallo. My grandfather was born in June 1900-1902 according to his 1940 US Census and death records. I applied for his 1936 SS app but as always, only MEXICO is stated. I found his newspaper archives obituary from Dallas and that is how U found he had a sister named Manuela Jimenez married to Refugio Gamez in Obregon and another sister Inez. Brothers were Jesus, Jose and Ramauldo Jimenez. I searched in so many surrounding areas, but still cannot find my grandfather's birth records. Any suggestions? I believe I found Ygnacia's (my great grandmother's death records in 1911 Yahualica Jalisco).

Thank you,

Comment

A branch of Jiménez that ended up in el Valle de Guadalupe is actually from a Jimenez family that spread out from Jalostotitlan and sprouted branches that went to San Miguel el Alto and from there branched out to Valle de Guadalupe, Canadas de Obregon, and. Ameca.
Valle de Guadalupe and Canadas are very close to each other. I have cousins that are surnamed Barba and others surnamed Perez that have ranches between the two towns.
A branch of the Jimenez left San Miguel el Alto and went to Ameca Jalisco which is not close Canadas. Ameca is not in Los altos de Jalisco and is on the other side of Guadalajara but they are the same family.
The Perez-Gallo family in Canadas was originally from Jalostotitlan and they drifted to Canadas with my cousins grandfather settling in el Valle de Guadlupe. The Perez Gallo , Alvarez tostado and Gomez de Mendoza intermarried repeatedly I the 1800's and some of their records are found in Jalostotitlan. I descend from these families.

R A Ricci

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I found a document that verifies that the "Manuela Jimenez Gamez" 1930 census in Valle de Guadalupe, Jalisco I found is definitely my grandfather's sister. I found Manuela's son's crossover papers that list his mother's name as " Manuela Jimenez-Gallo" and father "Refugio Gamez" which matches the census record. I might have found her other sister "Ines Jimenez" married to Candelario Lomeli, also in Valle de Guadalupe's census. I have not found an actually tie to this census document, but I know from my grandfather's obituary showed he had a sister named Ines. Now I need to search for a link of Ines to Marcelino (my grandfather) and/or their parents Ygnacia Gallo & Genaro Jimenez. The search goes on.....

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I found my grandfather's birth records in Canadas de Obregon civil records. His line is: Marcelino > Genaro > Marcelino > Nicolas > Mariano Ximenes. Mariano's children were born in Mexticacan and Los Lagos in the late 1700's, but grandparents are not listed. Does anyone have any information about this Jalisco Ximenes family? The Gallo line is Ignacia > Lorenzo > Anastacio > Jose Sostenes; all in Canadas.

In reply to by jimenec80

Comment

This Gallo family from Canadas is also part of my family tree. The surname was originally Perez -Gallo. Now that you have gone that far back you should look for Perez -Gallo and not just Gallo. They intermarried often with the Gomez Hurtado de Mendosa, Alvarez Tostado, and fernandez de Rueda.
I descend from Jose Onofre Perez-Gallo who married at least three times in the mid 1700's and left many descendants in Jalostotitlan, Canadas de Obregon, and Valle de Guadalupe.
Sometimes he was known as Onofre Jose Perez-Gallo
The Jimenez family that you are talking about May be the Jimenez de Castro family from this area.
Is your Sostenes Gallo the husband of Thomasa Perez who had a son christened in Jalostotitlan on 22/Aug/1819 by the name of Jose Anastacio Perez-Gallo?
R A Ricci

PS. This maybe of some help:

Perez Gallo
Jose Anastasio Gallo Perez
Gender: Male
Christening Date: 22 Aug 1819
Christening Place: NUESTRA SENORA DE LA ASUNCION,JALOSTOTITLAN,JALISCO,MEXICO
Father's

In reply to by R.A.Ricci (not verified)

Comment

Yes, my Sostenes was married to Tomasa. His son Anastacio is my great great great grandfather. I found a marriage record for Anastacio's son Miguel Gallo {Lorenzo's brother} in Canada's civil marriage records listing parents as Anastacio Gallo and Tiburcia Alvares which matches Lorenzo's death record, but Sostenes wife is listed as Tomasa "Ruis", so this was trowing me off from all the other records coming up with his wife as Tomasa "Perez". Thank you for this valuable information.

In reply to by jimenec80

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Tomasa Perez was also known as Tomasa Ruiz because she also descended from the Esparza which was originally Ruiz de Esparza.

I have good news and bad news for you. The good news is that we are now family. The bad news is that we are now family. I say good news because I can now provide with much much more information that makes us connected to all the presidents of the United States except for one who was from Holland and has no common ancestors that I know of. I can tell you how your ancestors descend from English French and Spanish kings over and over again. These lines go over a thousand years.

The bad news is that my research is despised by many people because they say that I unnecessarily go out of my way to find indian jewish and moor ancestors. Even worse, my recent research results point to an ancestor that was the stereotypical Jew, greedy and out to cheat to create a big business deal. Not only that but this ancestor conspired to kill an inquisitor and the

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I started my search of my grandfather Marcelino over a year ago for this one main purpose, to find out if my family has Jewish descent, but I then fell in love with the whole process of meeting previous family members through documents and history. I read an article which may or may not be true, but I found interesting.... which explained the Spanish surnames ending in EZ; like Jimenez, stood for "Eres Zion" to keep their Jewishness secret after Queen Isabel expelled the Jews from Spain. I was so hoping my family was Jewish descent and I went on a mission. My family members are now Christians, but I was excited to find out what I could about being Jewish. I was able to search my father's line; Villareal back to Diego Villareal and I read a story stating Diego Villareal was accused of being of the Jewish line, but I knew Aniceto Villareal was actually a step father and not of my blood line.

My maternal grandmothers line is from Jerez. Zacatecas. I was able to trace them back to the

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Hi Cynthia,

Names that end in ez denote the son of someone, e.g., Martinez, is the son of Martin. Fernandez, is the son of Fernando. Lopez, is the son of Lope. Jimenez, is the son of Jimeno, etc.

Christopher de Cuellar

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Hello Cynthia,

Finding evidence of jewish ancestry isn't as easy as a DNA test. Just because someone is a conquistador does not mean that he isn't a judeoconverso. Even looking for records, it is easy to hide the evidence. The Spanish King asked the same question about his own people. They told him that it was easy to tell which of his subjects continued practicing jewish traditions. Just take a look at the chimneys on a cold sabbath. Even on an exceptionally cold day, these chimneys would not be used on the Sabbath. I look at the chimneys on cold sabbaths.

I also look at records of trials

R A Ricci

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To find out details about our ancestors we have todo a lot of reading and hope to find details in the records. There are a lot of interesting stories to be found in records, but sometimes a lot of reading must be done before an interesting story or detail is found.

Good luck in your research,

Rick A Ricci

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Hi Cynthia,

I also administer DNA projects for Los Altos de Jalisco and Nueva Galicia at Family Tree DNA. I can tell you that some autosomal results do show Jewish percentages. I would recommend you take the "Family Finder" DNA test to see if they also come up on yours, as well as your European, Native American, African, Mediterranean, Asian, etc. percentages.

Rick Rodriguez

In reply to by R.A.Ricci (not verified)

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It turns out that the stories that I have found about our "possible" ancestor and his role in the murder of an inquisitor that was made a saint are wrong. It was clear that a couple of his brothers and relatives were involved. Many people believe he may have been part of the conspiracy because they confused him with his cousin, who has the same name, who was hanged in effigy and escaped death by going to Italy. I had picked up the information from sources that had mistakenly identified them as the same person. The problem was that even during his life time people confused the two. Both of them were employed by King Ferdinand of Aragon. The guilty cousin was a jurist. The other confusing part is that a Libro Verde has them as first cousins. This Libro verde has numerous mistakes. They are not first cousins. I am still working on figuring out if they are second or third cousins.

He was involved in the other scandal that involved the illegal sale of grain.

Rick A. Ricci

In reply to by R.A.Ricci (not verified)

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One question, how is it that there are two recorded marriages twenty years apart for the same couple? I first thought this may be a typo until I pulled the documents.

In reply to by jimenec80

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Hi Cynthia,

Which couple is married twenty years apart? Can you post the links so I can see?

Chris

In reply to by iChristopher

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Hello Chris,

Here are the two marriages twenty years apart of what seem to be the same couple, Onofre Joseph Perez Gallo and Manuela Reinoso.

Onofre Joseph Perez Gallo
Spouse's Name: Manuela Reinoso
Event Date: 30 Jun 1779
Event Place: Nuestra Senora De La Asuncion,Jalostotitlan,Jalisco,Mexico
Spouse's Father's Name: Melchor Reinoso
Spouse's Mother's Name: Maria Gonzales
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M60322-6 , System Origin: Mexico-ODM , GS Film number: 279297

Name: Onofre Joseph Peres Gallo
Spouse's Name: Manuela Reinozo
Event Date: 02 Jul 1758
Event Place: Nuestra Senora De La Asuncion,Jalostotitlan,Jalisco,Mexico
Spouse's Father's Name: Melchor Reinozo
Spouse's Mother's Name: Maria Gonsales Rubio
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M60322-5 , System Origin: Mexico-ODM , GS Film number: 279296 ,

Image. 225 of 723

Vuido de segundas nupcias de Maria Luisa Gonzalez de Hermosillo

Thanks,
Rick A Ricci

In reply to by R.A.Ricci (not verified)

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R. A. Ricci: One question, how is it that there are two recorded marriages twenty years apart for the same couple? I first thought this may be a typo until I pulled the documents.

In reply to by jimenec80

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II noticed the same thing? I have no answer. I was going to pull them both up and study them but you beat me to it.

I have the same thing on another couple that I am studying in Spain in relation to the Pantoja family but in that case the brides are different people but the same name (great aunt and great niece) and the groom may or may not be the same person. The groom seems to be a son or grandson through the elders other marriages but in one document is identified as the same person. This documents description is way after the fact during a inheritance battle and this document seems most likely to be in error as the elder groom is known as el Mayor and the younger tocallo is most likely the menor or what they would call "el mozo" and the groom in the second marriage. It has caused great confusion for those studying the Pantoja line. What contrinbutes to the confusion is that El Mayors" immediate descendants that shared his name also use the same combined surname Pantoja

In reply to by jimenec80

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Onofre married 20 years apart, both named Manuela. Maria Manuela Reinoso

Marriage 1758 Link - 02 Jul 1758 • Jalostotilán, Jalisco, Mexico -

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18447-9385-34?cc=1874591&wc=…

Marriage - Manuela and Onofre 30 Jun 1779 • Jalostotilán, Jalisco, Mexico

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-XY12-X?cc=1874591&wc=3J45-…

After reading a dispensa for Onofre Peres Gallo and Maria Manuela Reynoso - I believe what happened was when they were first married, they needed a dispensa and did't get one. So, 22 years later a complaint was lodged by Leonor Gomes (97 years old) and her son-in-law Joachin Peres. After jumping through the hoops, there marriage was approved so they got married again.

LINK FOR DISPENSA - https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-6RSR-4C?cc=1874591&wc=3J4M…

In reply to by jimenec80

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Mariano Jimenez married Luciana Gertrudis Yañez on May 13, 1762 in Guadalajara. His parents were Cristobal and Petra Delgadillo. This is where my research hits a wall because your ancestor Cristobal Jimenez was from Teocaltiche and this parish's marriage records are missing.

Rick

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Hello Rick, I pulled Mariano's marriage record to Yanez. Thank you for this information. I found this listing below for a child of a Mariano Ximenes and Yanes (same area & time frame). Have you researched this family? I was curious as to where the "y Alvarado" comes from after Mariano's name shown below. I searched for his mother as "Petra Delgadillo Alvarado", but so far nothing comes up.

I'm searching for Mariano's marriage records to Luisa Martin which is my lineage. I searched in San Lagos books of marriages in 1772-1773, but they were not listed there (His first child's recorded birth with Luiza Martin in Family Search is in San Lagos 1773). I'm looking for Nicolas Ximenez's birth records, somewhere in between San Lagos and Mexticacan. His marriage records says he's from Mexticacan. His wife was Guadalupe Iniques, born in Sept. 1790 in Mexticacan.
___________________________________________________________________________________

Name: Jph. Maria Ano Ximenez Yanes
Gender

In reply to by jimenec80

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Jose Sostenes Gallo was born on April 21, 1796 in a ranch named Tecameca. His parents were Onofre Perez-Gallo and Rafaela Garcia.

Hope this helps out.

Rick

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Hi Cynthia,

I'm not sure if you noticed a post a couple of days ago about this Pérez Gallo family, but your Sostenes Gallo descends from them. As Rick mentioned, his parents were Onofre Pérez Gallo and Rafaela Garcia. They were married 22 June 1795 in Jalostotitlan.

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18447-25777-9?cc=1874591&wc=…

Rafaela Garcia was the legitimate daughter of Don Jose Manuel Garcia and Doña María Esparza. Onofre Pérez Gallo was the legitimate son of Onofre Joseph Pérez Gallo and Maria Manuela Reynoso.

From the IM of Onofre Joseph Perez Gallo and Maria Manuela Reynoso you can see that Onofre Joseph Perez Gallo is the legitimate son of Don Joseph Pérez Gallo and Doña María de la Nava Álvarez Tostado:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18450-18804-27?cc=1874591&wc…

Joseph Pérez Gallo was born in March 1685 and baptized in Nuestra Señora de los Dolores, Teocaltiche, Jalisco on

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Rick, I could not find a listing of Mariano's parents on any of the children's birth records I could locate in Family Search. I have his wife's name as "Luiza Martin". Could this be Mariano's first or second wife? It took me over a year to find my grandfather's birth place and I did this by pulling his 1967 archived obituary in Dallas, Texas and found his sister's married name: Manuela Gamez. His brothers were Romauldo, Jesus and Jose. I just found their mother's (Igancia Gallo) death records and sadly she died when my grandfather was only three. Thank you for this information.

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Christopher, thank you for this information. I will pull these documents for my records.

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Cynthia,

Your grandfather Marcelino and Maria Ines Jimenez were in fact brother and sister. I know some of Maria Ines' descendants here in Valle de Guadalupe and they corroborated this fact a while back.

What exactly are you looking for? I've done extensive research on Cañadas de Obregon families, I just might already have what you're looking for.

Rick

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Marcelino Jimenez was born on June 24, 1901 in Cañadas de Obregon, his parents were Genaro Jimenez Romo and Ignacia Gallo Jimenez.

Let me know if you still need his baptism or birth records.

Rick

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Steve

Today this municipality is pretty small, about 3,500 people. Could it have been too small to have a parish of its own?

Perhaps there are records for it as a branch (or a chapel) of a larger parish? When looking at a map, there are some larger towns with parish churches in the vicinity. The Family Search catalog does not necessarily provide any details on branches/chapels that may be included. I looked at the catalog for Jalostotitlan, as an example, and the catalog gave no information.

Your option would seem to be to peruse the church records for the nearby communities. Records for a branch/chapel could be mixed with the regular parish records, they could be added at the end of a month or year. There is always the unfortunately possibility they are completely out of order, and may be found with another year.

The fact that the filmed civil records date from 1870 is suggestive of a rather small community (although there is always the possibility that earlier records could have

Manuela Padilla 1861 about

I have been searching for Manuela Padilla's baptismal document for many years with no luck. I have found Her parents' Marriage record and her mother's death record.

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Jose Antonio Padilla’s mother is Maria Gallo according to the Jose Antonio’s marriage record. Do you know how much his Maria Gallo is related to Maria Francisca Gallo’s father?

I also have Gallo in my ancestral lines.

Rick A. Ricci

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Patricia is right that it is a mistake in the record when it states that Maria Gallo is the mother. All other records prove that the mother’s name is Bartola Gonzalez.

Jose Antonio Padilla married a second time to Simona Padilla. His marriage record names his first wife as Maria Francisca Gallo, and also names his parents as Jose Fernándo Padilla and Bartola Gonzalez

I am related through Maria Francisca Gallo’s parents Rafael Perez Gallo and Maximiana Reynoso A. Tostado.

Rick A. Ricci

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I too am related to Maria Francisca Gallo - Parents Rafael Gallo and Maxima Reynoso. Francisca died 19 Jun 1861 from childbirth. I found her death record, but have not found the baptism of Manuela, who I suspect was the child born when Francisca died. I don't know where else to look. Canadas doesn't have church or civil records for 1861. I looked page by page at the digital records in the Jalos, San Juan de los Lagos, and San Miguel el Alto with no luck. I don't know where else to look. =(

Greetings from a new member / Saludos de un miembro nuevo

Hello everybody,
I am Fernando Carrillo. I've been researching on my ancestors for quite a few time and find myself thrilled to be a member of this genalogy group.

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Bienvenido Fernando, ojalá encuentres información útil y ayuda aquí en Nuestros Ranchos.

Saludos,

Bernardo Menchaca

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Bunos dias Bernardo,

Yo también ando buscando informacion de como llegaron los Minchaca/Menchaca a Nueva España, mis antepasados son de Zacatecas, principalmente de Sombrerete, Sain Alto y Cantuna, con el tiempo y la escritura de los registros el apellido Menchaca fué transformado en Minchaca, segun los registros civiles y religiosos llegué hasta Rosalio Minchaca Albares, nacido en 1805 que segun informacion no confirmada era hijo de Felix o Feliz Minchaca, nacido cerca de 1770, a su vez hijo de Xabier Minchaca.

Por otro lado en los registros de pasajeros de PARES de 1619-6-1 encontré la siguiente informacion:

"Expediente de información y licencia de pasajero a indias de Juan de Cervantes Casaus, corregidor de Zacatecas, a Nueva España, con las siguientes personas: - Juan Ochoa de Menchaca, criado, hijo de Juan Ochoa de Menchaca y de Mariana Fernández de Lermanda y Loyola".

http://pares.mcu.es/ParesBusquedas20/catalogo/description/146644

Por lo pronto no he encontrado la relacion

AVILA / Fresnillo, Zacatecas

Hello,

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This is a death record, not a birth record.
José Trinidad Ávila is the deceased. He was son of Ysidra Solís and José de Ávila. And he died when he was 86 years old, hence he was an "adulto"
Anastacio de Ávila is the son of José Trinidad, the one who reported the death of his dad. The word is "expuso", which means "he declared/explained".

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Thank you for your response and for confirming that the father and son names were transposed on the index. The transcription of "expuso" and "adulto" is very helpful. I can see why you thought I believed this to be a birth record. I must proofread closer next time. Thanks again.

Carlos de Lomelin

I found a record of the death of a Carlos Lomelin in Spain in 1648....Would anyone know if this is the same one who the Lomelis from Jalisco decend from?

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The record mentions that Carlos had a brother named Juan Baptista Lomelin. That may help.

-Claudia

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I didnt catch that at first(Juan Baptista)....Its well known Carlos de Lomelin had a brother named Luis ,but I am not aware of a Juan Baptista.Ive read Lomellin was changed to Lomelin upon reaching Mexico...so it's left me a bit confused why this Carlos in Spain would be Lomelin instead of Lomellini. Im wondering if anyone who has done more research than me on Carlos Lomelin would happen to know if he died in Mexico or Spain and in what year. I haven't read anything on his death in my short time researching. Thanks, Alejandro Lomeli

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Carlos,

The Lomellini family was one of the principal nobles houses of Genoa, Italy. At the time certain parts of Italy were under Spanish dominion. If you look up italian genealogical books on google books it will come up several times. I do know of projects that are taking place as we speak about the origins of this family. You are correct, Luis or Luigi Lomellini was the brother of Carlo Lomellini. If I recall correctly, Luis settled in Pachuca and Carlos, obviously settled in Nochistlan. There were many other Lomelin who settled in the 1500-1600s in Mexico City. Have you been able to connect to Carlo Lomellini? I think I descend about 5 times through the Lomelin and Lomelin y Mendoza, different lines that took different names.

Daniel Mendez de Torres Camino

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hello Daniel,
I wasnt aware of other Lomellinis settling in Mexico City, I was under the impression The Lomelins from Jalisco/Nochistlan in the old days pretty much descend from Carlos and the ones from Mexico City from Luis. I have found(and with help of members here) that i descend directly from Carlos.Ive also found I have another Lomeli line branching in, and 3 Xaurigue/Jauregui lines as well(which i plan on coming back and doing research on).Since Ive reached Carlos de Lomelin on my line I've taken a greater interest in researching the Lomellinis. Ive read some articles on them here online , but not much on them dealing with Spain.I am open to suggestions on anything written about them, and hopefully be able to further my tree.Thanks,
Alejandro lomeli

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Hello Alejandro

I would appreciate knowing more about your Jauregui/Lomeli lines as I to am researching one, Enrique Jauregui and Maria Antonia Lomeli.
Maybe I can find a connection.

Thanks,

R.A.Ricci

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Hello R.A.Ricci......sorry i am just responding. You are more than welcome to view my family tree on Ancestry....i am under 7shagzilla7....ill let you go through it if you request it. I havent worked on it in a while but so far i have 2 Lomeli and 4 Jauregui lines i believe.
Alejandro Lomeli

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Hello Alejandro
Thank you for your response. I will request to view it next month after New Year's Day. I have continued to work on the Lomeli(ni) lines and have made some interesting discoveries reinforcing my earlier research. I look forward to looking up your research and seeing how we connect.
Thanks again and happy New Year.

R.A.Ricci

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I would like to bring this theme to the website's attention again.

The record that "aLomeli" found mentions that this Carlos Lomelin passed away on the 20th of October 1648.
María de Benavides -wife of Carlos Lomelin- was registered as a widow in 1649.

Business related trips to "los reinos de Castilla" and back to the Spanish ultramarine kingdoms happened and there are many examples of people from Nueva Galicia who went back and forth.

To think that Carlos Lomelin returned to Spain where his brother Juan Bautista lived, and then he passed away -for whatever reason- in Albacete in 1648, is something possible.

To discard this hypothesis I would like to ask: Has anyone found the death record of Carlos Lomelin in Nueva Galicia? Has anyone seen has his last will?

If not, it is also valid to think that the reason why these documents will never be found is because of the points mentioned above. The death record of that Carlos Lomelin explicitly says that he did not make a last will

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I agree with your reasoning Erik.

The Carlos Lomelin that was married to Maria Benavides was said to be from a family associated with the slavery business. When I discoverered that Carlo Lomellini’s father was married to someone who was previously a slave, I thought that maybe the story had become twisted.

Two years ago I found that Carlo Lomellini’s father, Vicenzo Lomellin, was the head of the business, which included slavery, in San Lucar de Barrameda, and in partnership with other Lomellini family members. Stefano Marini was a business associate of Vicenzo Lomellini. Stefano Marini is the husband of Vicenzo’s aunt. I believe that Carlo Lomellini, son of Vicenzo Lomellini and Porzia, his wife, who had previously been a Muslim and his slave, is the same Carlos Lomelin that is married to Maria Benavides.

The findings also show that another ancestor of mine, Luis Marin, son of Francesco Marini and Marina Bernal Guillen, also descends from this Lomellini family as Francesco

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Do you know what business this Juan Marin was in? Was it also slavery?

Danny

In reply to by dcalonso

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Conquistador / Capitán Luis Marin and his wife Maria Mendoza have a son by the name of Juan Marin. My question on the other thread of the Marin De la Peña Losa is:

Is “Juan Marin” that married Elbira (Elvira) Juarez (Xuarez) de Peña Losa the same person as “Juan Marin “, son of Conquistador Capitan Luis Marin and Maria Mendoza? The dates and location fit, same age, same city.

Rick A. Ricci

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What year is your Juan Marin supposed to be born. Juan Marin married to Elvira Juarez had a child baptized in Mexico City in 1540 and another one in 1545, so he would've been born around 1520 I'm guessing. Also, he's listed as a silk merchant.

Danny

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Hello Daniel
I have questioned whether Luis and Carlo were really brothers. If they were brothers than I have found their ancestors and posted their ancestry under the post wirh the parents of Carlo Lomellini(2) and Luciano Lomellini Spinola (2) in a post "are Carlos and Luis Lomeli brothers?" They are the only set of bothers in this time frame. If they are not brothers, than I name the most likely candidates as Carlo Lomellini(1) and Luciano Lomellini Spinola(1) and explain why they are the most likely candidates. Do you recall where we have read they were brothers? I do recall Jaime Holcombe stating that he believed they were brothers. I am trying to recall all the other sources.

Thanks for your help

R.A.Ricci

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Hello Daniel
I have questioned whether Luis and Carlo were really brothers. If they were brothers than I have found their ancestors and posted their ancestry under the post wirh the parents of Carlo Lomellini(2) and Luciano Lomellini Spinola (2) in a post "are Carlos and Luis Lomeli brothers?" They are the only set of bothers in this time frame. If they are not brothers, than I name the most likely candidates as Carlo Lomellini(1) and Luciano Lomellini Spinola(1) and explain why they are the most likely candidates. Do you recall where we have read they were brothers? I do recall Jaime Holcombe stating that he believed they were brothers. I am trying to recall all the other sources.

Thanks for your help

R.A.Ricci

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The main branch of lomelini that went from genoa to Spain descend from Marco lomelini but this is not entirely accurate since other cousins lomelini also came over and intermarried with Marcos descendants. The lomelini were businessmen that moved around. There is a painting of lomelinis in a museum in Scotland. The men in the painting look just like the lomelinis from San Miguel el alto. a couple other lomelinis seem to predate Marcos but it looks as their families went Back to genoa or to their other palaces in Italy
They were very successful businessmen for the most part and many of them liked to monopolize whatever trade they were involved in. Their homes:/palaces are. NOw hotels
Rick a. Ricci

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 25, 2012, at 10:49 PM, 7shagzilla7@gmail.com wrote:

> I didnt catch that at first(Juan Baptista)....Its well known Carlos de Lomelin had a brother named Luis ,but I am not aware of a Juan Baptista.Ive read Lomellin was changed to Lomelin upon reaching

Comment

I forgot to add that the name change began in Spain and the branch that went to Portugal.
Ra Ricci

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 25, 2012, at 10:49 PM, 7shagzilla7@gmail.com wrote:

> I didnt catch that at first(Juan Baptista)....Its well known Carlos de Lomelin had a brother named Luis ,but I am not aware of a Juan Baptista.Ive read Lomellin was changed to Lomelin upon reaching Mexico...so it's left me a bit confused why this Carlos in Spain would be Lomelin instead of Lomellini. Im wondering if anyone who has done more research than me on Carlos Lomelin would happen to know if he died in Mexico or Spain and in what year. I haven't read anything on his death in my short time researching. Thanks, Alejandro Lomeli

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Hello Claudia,
I would appreciate it very much of you can direct me to where I can find a copy or at least a transcription of the record that Carlos has a brother named Jaun Baptists Lomelin.
Thank you
R A Ricci

Marin de la Pena losa

wow. that's a mouthful. Do you have any dates and resource info for these? -----Original Message-----From: "R. A. Ricci" [rricci@lausd.net]Date: 02/19/2009 12:24 PMTo: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.orgSubject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Marin de la Pena losa Juan marin and Elbira Juarez de Penalosa are the parents of another Juan Marin who married 9/Jan/1583 in Mexico City to Cathalina Arenas the daughter of Juan Gonzalez and Luisa De la Cuevas. Juan Marin and Cathalina Arenas were the parents of at least 2 children: Juan Marin De la Pena losa and Catharina (Cathalina) Marin de la Penalosa Catharina de la penalosa married Joseph de Alba Retamosa, son of Alonso De Alba and Leonor de Retamosa Leonor de Retamosa was the daughter of Nicolas Macias Valadez and, her namesake Leonor Reramosa. Joseph de alba and catharina Marin de la penalosa Arenas (she sometimes reversed the surnames) were the parents of at least 2 siblings, Cristobal de alba y arenas and Ildefonso (Alonso) De A

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Comment

Is “Juan Marin” that married Elbira (Elvira) Juarez (Xuarez) de Peña Losa the same person as “Juan Marin “, son of Conquistador Capitan Luis Marin and Maria Mendoza? The dates and location fit, same age, same city.

Rick A. Ricci

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Because of the marriage date there is a question regarding the identity of Josefa's maternal grandmother. I reviewed all my notes and have confimed her parents, paternal grandparents and their ancestry, her maternal grandfather antonio de alva and his ancestry.

I need to do more research on Teresa De Alba's mother Maria Valdivia de la Mora for I did not have enough information in my notes to confirm her identity.On the contrary, I believe that I have made a mistake here or Maria Valdivia and teresa de alva were having kids at 10-11 years old which does not sound right.
R.A.Ricci

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Teresa de Alba's parents are Juan Antonio De Alba and Maria Valdivia. I do not have confirmed dates as to their marriage but someone submitted an IGI record for Juan De alba and maria valdivia marrying about 1705 in Aguascalientes, with Maria Valdivia being born about 1684. This would make teresa 13 to 14 years old when she got married which is young but common in those times.
The problem is that Maria Valdivia is not the daughter of Manuel Valdivia Alderete and Maria de la Mora. Manuel Alderete and Maria de la Mora were married 2/feb/1698 in Tepa with Maria de la Mora being baptized on20/Feb/1683 also in Tepatitlan.

I am sorry for the confusion.
R.A.Ricci

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A little more research has added even more to the confusion. It seems that antonio was a popular name that was used over and over again for siblings. Juan antonio de alba, Francisco Antonio de Alba, and also cuts across generations of de albas. This may have added to the confusion as to who teresa de albas mother and maternal grandparents are......We also need to make sure we have the same antonio as the father and not one of the siblings.

R.A.Ricci

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yes I do have dates and sources but like you said it is a mouthful. I will upload my data later. if someone ask for info I would like to give it to them as soon as possible. To write everything down when someone ask for help is to write a book everytime...

By the way I did the research and have not seen this branch with this information in any book.

Most genealogist have taken the mistaken "martin" in one record and had a deadend. They did not folllow the correct Marin line.

R.A.Ricci

Possible Family of Benito de Isla and Petronila de Moctezuma

Hello,

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Buenos dias David,

Just a small comment about the colonial records, regarding your sentence:

"I have seen many examples within these Mexican colonial records were people who are more accurately and originally described as mixed race, appear later in life described as “español”".

Probably you already know but it might be interesting for the rest of the community NR, in the colonial Mexico the "castas" were defined according to the origins of the parents and it was possible to consider a mixed race as "español" after the third generation.

If an "español" married an "india" the children are "mestizos", if a "mestizo" maried an "español" the children were "castizos". If a castizo married an "español", the children were considered "españoles".

That is why some of them appear later in life as "español".

A complete clasification of the "castas" can be found in;

https://www.significados.com/castas-de-la-nueva-espana/

Regards

Jorge

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To my knowledge the only source of this info is JH Letters "Juana Navarro, wife of Benito de Isla, was buried in Teocaltiche on 28 Dec 1651. The albaceas of her will were Antonio de Ruvalcaba and Miguel Martínez de Alarcón, vecinos de Teocaltiche. This information was extracted from an unmicrofilmed death record in Teocaltiche." But there is no transcription of what was in the record and no information on who this Benito de Isla was.

Comment

I just noticed that the scribe who penned Isabel de Moctezuma’s will in 1550 was a Diego de Isla. I wonder if he is related to our Benito de Isla. If so, this would show that there has been an affiliation between the “Islas” and the “Moctezumas” from as early as 1550 and might explain why one of Benito’s daughters born by about 1600 used the name “Maria de Isla y Moctezuma.”

What still needs to be determined is who from the Moctezuma clan married over to the Isla clan for Benito’s daughter to use the name “Moctezuma”?

Comment

Denise,

I noticed an archival post of yours regarding the Sotelo Moctezuma where
you posted the defunción of doña Francisca Sotelo and her testamento before
the juéz público, Diego de Isla Heredia. Perhaps, there's a connection
between the judge Diego de Isla Heredia and the royal scribe Diego de Isla.

doña Francisca Sotelo:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18758-5851-92?cc=1883388&wc=…

Original post:
http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/21898#comment-26369

Paige

Comment

Hi Paige
Thanks for bringing this to my attention. The two Diegos are about eighty years apart, so the latter Diego could be a grandson of the former...only way to find out is to do sone digging Family Search! I am leaving soon on vacation to a place with no internet, so it will be a while before i can post anything on this, unless i find something tonight. Incidentally, a son (or was it grandson?)of Diego Arias sotelo and leonor valderrama moctezuma married a woman with the name Heredia. See more info on this in Moctezuma's Children.

Regards
Denise

Comment

4 Other Thoughts:

1. Elvira de Islas and Maria de la Concepcion de Islas are provable sisters to each other as per the following dispensa:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18409-48327-39

Benito de Isla came alone and single to Mexico. If Elvira and Maria de la Concepcion were his sisters, then perhaps they came at a later date. However, Elvira and Maria de Concepcion being sisters to our Benito de Isla creates odd trucking issues which should have required dispenas, but as of yet we have not seen evidence for this. Until this evidence surfaces, we may have to assume that Elvira and Maria de la Concepcion may be related to our Benito de Isla in some other way (aunts, daughters, nieces, cousins?). Benito, Evlira and Maria de la Concepcion being cousins or cousins once removed seems to avoid the consanguinity that would require a dispensa.

If a dispensa exits for the marriage of Diego Delgadillo and Petrona de Isla, and if it can be found, it might reveal more.

2. Holcombe

Comment

Another piece of the puzzle for the family of Benito de Isla appears in this dispensa that can be viewed in 2 places:

1. Here:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18411-52641-81?cc=1874591&wc…

2. And Here:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18417-19400-14?cc=1874591&wc…

Holcombe also adds some details to this family in his letters pages 76 and 171.:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/6invajbk0zzo4jm/Letters%20Edited%20for%20Dist…

For clarity, below is the tree of the dispensa with the additional details of Holcombe in brackets [ ].

Trunk … presumably Benito de Isla

Gonzalo Gomez...................1.......Maria de Isla
[m. c. 1628 Agustina Martin]............m. [Andres Martin de Sotomayor]

Antonio Gomez Garcia............2.......Margarita de Sotomayor
m. [Francisca Florez.d.l.Torre].........m. [N.N. de Leon]

Maria Blanca Gomez..............3

Comment

David,

I don't know if this helps but theres a wikitree for Petrona de Isla and
Diego Delgadillo. IT has her parents and has 1 of his parents. It looks
like 1 of his parents is Maria De La Conception de Islas, I don't know if
that's the same person mentioned or how accurate the tree
information is. There's also a book mentioned at the bottom the authors
name is Hilton, but, I don't have the book so I don't know what it says
about them. The wikitree is here... http://www.wikitree.com/wiki/De_Islas-19

Danny C. Alonso

Comment

Danny,
The wikitree sited belongs to a member of NR and is quite well researched. The book referenced at the bottom is Sagrada Mitra de Guadalajara Antiguo Obispado de la Nueva Galicia by Maria de la Luz Montejano Hilton. Here is the passage you're referring to:

Nochistlán. Zac. Diciembre 17 de 1716. Exp. 22 - Dispensa de tercero con cuarto grado de consanguinidad - Joseph González Lozano, español de 20 años de edad. vecino y natural de esta feligresía de Nochistlán, hijo legitimo de Bernardo González, español difunto vecino que fué de esta feligresía, y de Josepha Lozano, que vive: con María Díaz Montañez, española, doncella de 16 años de edad, hija legítima de Nicolás Díaz Montañez, español difunto, y de María Flores de Sandi, española vecina de esta feligresía. Declaración del pretenso: Mi madre y Petronila de Islas, bisabuela de María Díaz, fueron primas hermanas, hijas de dos hermanas que es segundo grado, y Mariana de Sandoval, abuela de la susodicha sobrina de mi madre en

Comment

Chris,

In your reference to the passage dated December 17, 1716 I noticed the names
Joseph Gonzalez Lozano and Maria Flores de Sandi. In researching my
ancestors in Nueva Galicia, I found a record dated September 17, 1752 that
records that baptism of Juana Maria Lozano Dias. The baptism was performed
in Teocaltiche and the parents are Juan Miguel Lozano (my ancestor) and
Lorenza Dias de Sandi. I was curious to know if you had seen any
relationships after 1716 between these two families. Thank you in advance
for any information you can provide.

Regards, Bob Lozano

Comment

Hi Bob,
Unfortunately, I'm not familiar with the particular families mentioned in the dispensa or the specific couple Juan Miguel Lozano and Lorenza Diaz de Sandi. I just posted the information from Sagrada Mitra de Guadalajara that was in question. I do have some Lozanos in my tree, but, most of them are in the 17th century. The most recent Lozano I have is my 8th Great Grandmother, Juana Manuela Lozano de Gardea that married Bartolome Joseph Martel, but, I do not know her parents or have any information beyond her. I also descend from Isabel Lozano de Gardea, my 12th Great Grandmother, the daughter of Cristóbal Lozano and Maríana González de Gardea.  Beyond that, I don't think I really have anything that will be of any help.

Chris

Comment

Hi Danny C. Alonso,

In answer to your questions, "Are the people on line 1, brother and sister and then the people in line 2 are 1st Cousins and then the people in line 3 are second cousins or is it read differently?"

The answer is, yes: "1" would be siblings, "2" are 1st cousins, "3" is 2nd cousins etc.

As many of the communities where our ancestors lived were isolated, the "marriage pools" were limited to the few families that lived in any given area. As a consequence, after 3 or 4 generations, everyone in town is your 2nd- or 3rd- cousin. To prevent inbreeding, the Church would "monitor" these couplings, and try to prevent them; recognizing that they couldn't, they would issue dispensations to those couples who qualified (this is a simplified explanation).

The Church used a system of degrees ("grados," in Spanish), to establish the severity of the consanguinity (related by blood) or affinity (related by marriage or an iilicit relationship) between a given couple:

Siblings: 1o

Comment

Thank you Manny for the information and the dispensations links, I finally
understand how to read them. I have a question about this tree here. On
Josefa Diaz under her it says m. N.N. does that mean she wasn't married
when she had Angela Diaz

Andres Martin de Sotomayor......1.......Ysabel Martin
m. Maria de Isla y Moctezuma............m. Juan Diaz de la Huerta

Andres Martin Camacho...........2.......Josefa Diaz
m. Beatriz de Mayorga...................m. N.N.

Andres Martin de Sotomayor......3.......Angela Diaz
........................................m. Isidro Villalobos

................................4.......Juana Cayatana de Villalobos

Danny C. Alonso

Comment

N.N. means they do not know the name of the spouse or person with whom they
had children.

N.N. - nomen nescio [Latin], name unknown
N.N. - non nominatus / non nominata' [Latin], not named

On Tue, Jun 9, 2015 at 11:53 PM, Danny Alonso wrote:

> Thank you Manny for the information and the dispensations links, I finally
> understand how to read them. I have a question about this tree here. On
> Josefa Diaz under her it says m. N.N. does that mean she wasn't married
> when she had Angela Diaz
>
> Andres Martin de Sotomayor......1.......Ysabel Martin
> m. Maria de Isla y Moctezuma............m. Juan Diaz de la Huerta
>
> Andres Martin Camacho...........2.......Josefa Diaz
> m. Beatriz de Mayorga...................m. N.N.
>
> Andres Martin de Sotomayor......3.......Angela Diaz
> ........................................m. Isidro Villalobos
>
> ................................4.......Juana Cayatana de Villalobos
>
> Danny C. Alonso

Comment

Thank you Armando. Is there a reason they wouldn't name Josefa Diaz husband
or did they leave him out because he wasn't important to the tree? I have
some ancestors with the same names in the tree (villalobos & Sotomayor) and
am just trying to save everyone with the same names in case I find I'm
connected to them.

Danny C. Alonso

Comment

Always go to the source whenever there is a question about the data
extracted from a dispensa. There is no tree in the dispensa which means
that the tree was made by Jaime Holcombe based on what was written in the
document which says "*Isabel Marín y Andrés Martín fueron hermanos y la
dicha Isabel fue madre de Josefa Díaz y esta lo fue de Ángela Díaz quien lo
es de dicha Juana Cayetana......dicho Andrés Martín fue padre de Andrés
Martín y este lo es del pretenso*"

The father of Ángela Díaz was not named since he is not needed to determine
how the two people are related which is all they needed in order to be
granted the dispensa. The dispensa is indexed at
http://www.guadalajaradispensas.com/2011/12/1687-1749-1828-fhl-source-f…
and the dispensa starts at
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18403-64936-14

On Wed, Jun 10, 2015 at 1:11 AM, Danny Alonso wrote:

> Thank you Armando. Is there a reason they wouldn't name Josefa Diaz husband
> or did they leave him

Comment

I have another question about this tree. Now that I understand how to read
them I wantd to know if any of these Andres Martin de Sotomayors are the
same as my Ancestor Andres Martin de Sotomayor married to Lucia Chaves or
where on the tree this Andres martin de Sotomayor fits in

Andres Martin de Sotomayor......1.......Ysabel Martin
m. Maria de Isla y Moctezuma............m. Juan Diaz de la Huerta

Andres Martin Camacho...........2.......Josefa Diaz
m. Beatriz de Mayorga...................m. N.N.

Andres Martin de Sotomayor......3.......Angela Diaz
........................................m. Isidro Villalobos

................................4.......Juana Cayatana de Villalobos

Danny C. Alonso

Comment

Hi Danny,

Your Andrés Martín de Sotomayor and the Andrés Martín de Sotomayor that's married to Juana Cayetana de Villalobos are both grandchildren of Andrés Martín de Sotomayor and María de Isla y Moctezuma.

Andrés Martín de Sotomayor that's married to Juana Cayetana de Villalobos is the son of Andrés Martín de Sotomayor and Beatriz de Mayorga. Your Andres Martín de Sotomayor that's married to Lucia de Chávez is the son of Nicolás Martín de Sotomayor and Simona López de la Cerda, my 9th great grandparents.

Andrés Martín de Sotomayor and María de Isla y Moctezuma

Andres Martín de Sotomayor...................1..................Nicolás Martín de Sotomayor
m. Beatriz de Mayorga................................................m. Simona López de la Cerda

Andres Martín de Sotomayor...................2.................Andres Martín de Sotomayor
m. Juana Cayetana de Villalobos................................m. Lucia de Chávez

Chris

Comment

Hi Danny,

Andrés Martín de Sotomayor and Lucía de Chávez were married in Aguascalientes on 8 Oct 1688. https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-12446-30313-70?cc=1502404&…

The marriage record proves Lucía de Chávez is the daughter Diego de Chávez Fragoso and Antonia de Villalobos and Andrés Martín de Sotomayor is the son of Nicolás Martín de Sotomayor and Simona López de la Cerda.

Nicolás Martín de Sotomayor and Simona López de la Cerda were married in Teocaltiche on 17 Sep 1667. https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-19053-3386-35?cc=1874591

Simona López de la Cerda was the daughter of Agustín López de la Cerda and Lucía Rodríguez and Nicolás Martín de Sotomayor is the son of Andrés Martín de Sotomayor and María de Isla y Moctezuma.

Agustín López de la Cerda and Lucía Rodríguez were married in San Luis Potosi on 13 Nov 1635. https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1942-20439-1732-39?cc=1860864

Agustín López de la Cerda is the son of Francisco López

Comment

Hi Danny,
I'm not sure why Catalina de Victoria's parents are the only ones named. But, if you look at the marriage record, it says that Antonio Rodríguez was not in attendance at his wedding but was represented by Juan Diaz Ynfante. Maybe, because he wasn't there the scribe didn't record his parents names.
    
"En las casas de la morada de Hernando Diaz Yn-     
fante desta ciudad de Pazquaro, primero dia del mes de     
Junio de mill y seyscientos y un años, yo Juan Perez Poca-     
sangre, beneficiado della, despose y case por palabras de     
presente a Antonio Rodriguez, ausente, por persona de     
Juan Diaz Ynfante, con licencia que para ello traxo     
del provisor deste obispado, con Catalina de Vitoria,     
hija de Hernando Diaz Ynfante y de Juliana de Vitoria,     
vezinos desta dicha ciudad de Pazquaro, siendo testigos     
Hernando Parga y Francisco ? y Fernando Orhua,     
vezinos desta dicha ciudad.     

Juan Perez Pocasangre"

Chris

Comment

Chris,

Coincidentally, I am researching a couple in San Luis Potosi/Armadillo de los Infante who are contemporary with your Francisco Lopez and Francisca de los Angeles.

They are Domingo de Castro and Maria de los Angeles. “De los Angeles” appears to be a surname among their descendants, not an added tack-on to a personal name. Therefore I suspect that Maria de los Angeles and Francisca de los Angeles might be sisters.

Do you have any evidence that could support this? For example, do a Domingo de Castro or Maria de los Angeles appear as padrinos anywhere among the descendants of Francisco Lopez and Francisca de los Angeles?

Please let me know if they do,

Regards,

David

Comment

Hi David,
I actually haven't started researching this couple yet. Bill Figueroa mentions them here in relation to the Lopez de la Cerda: http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/20380?page=1  but, beyond that, I don't really have anything. The marriage of Agustín López de la Cerda and Lucía Rodríguez de Victoria says that Francisco López and Francisca de los Angeles are vecinos de Zacatecas, but, that's it. If I come across any mention of Domingo de Castro or María de los Angeles, I'll let you know. 
Chris

Comment

I wanted to clarify some things about the reason for the dispensas. The rules for marrying a relative started in the 11th century in Europe and I believe the rules still exist. My 5th great-grandfather from Vizcaya, País Vasco had to get a dispensa to marry his 2nd cousin. There likely weren't very many people in his region that he could marry that weren't related to him. This is probably the case in many parts of Europe. I have read about people doing genealogy and DNA testing in the British Isles and Ireland coming to the same conclusion. However, it was probably more common in Jalisco, Aguascalientes, and Zacatecas since the españoles wanted to maintain their status for themselves and their children and they had fewer people to choose a partner from. Many of the people in the dispensas mention that they want to marry someone from the same class but they can't find anyone that isn't related. So the marriage pool was even more limited due to the class limitation.

Comment

Manny,

Thank’s for the Ynes Gonzalez Martinez information. She is new to my files.

Armando,

Holcombe’s letters has road mapped to some new information. I will be posting this later.

Regards to all,

David

Comment

Danny and Emilie,

You got lucky. Ysabel Lozano Gardea exists in my files. This is how you fit in:

Capitan Juan Lozano m. Ynes Martinez Baca y Gonzalez

Christobal Martinez Lozano (I) m. Maria de Isla

Christobal Martinez Lozano (II) m. Mariana Gonzalez/Perez de Gardea

Isabel Lozano y Perez de Gardea m. Diego de Villalpando

Mariana de Villalpando m. Antonio de Trillo

Maria de San Juan Belasco de Trillo m. Nicolas Garcia

I recommend looking up Isabel Lozano y Perez’s will dated 20 Oct 1702 in Aguascalientes

Go to: http://sigue.aguascalientes.gob.mx/axweb/login.aspx
User name: sigue.publica
Password: publica

Click on: SGG-ARCHIVO-HISTORICO - ACERVOS COLONIALES SIGLOS XVII A XIX
Where it says: CONTRATANTES Type: “Isabel Lozano y Perez” (without parenthesis)
Click the “Submit” button

Notes:

1. Ysabel Lozano y Perez de Gardea’s mother is named as “Mariana Lozano de Gardea.” The “Lozano” should be “Gonzalez” or “Perez.” This is an error by whoever wrote the will.

2. Mariana de

Comment

On Christobal Martinez Lozano (I) & Francisco Gonzalez as Brothers.

Jaime Holcombe Isunza stated “A probable other son of Juan Lozano and Inés Martínez was Francisco González Martínez.” As seen on page 8 of:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/6invajbk0zzo4jm/Letters%20Edited%20for%20Dist…

I had actually reached the same conclusion, within my own work. I had not mentioned it when I started this forum thread to maintain focus, but since it has come up, I will present it here. I feel that Christobal Martinez Lozano(I) and Francisco Gonzalez (husband of Magdalena de Lavezaris) were brothers for the following reasons:

1.)
Diego de Aguayo (son of Antonio de Aguayo and Elvira Gonzalez de Isla) and Gertrudis Lozano (daughter of Joseph Lozano and Petronila de Retamosa Mecias Valades Gonzalez de Gardea Tresalva) were married 12 Jan 1696 in Aguascalientes. They were related in the 4th degree, so this marriage required a dispensation which can be found here

Comment

Thanks for that information.

It wasn't clear from your post if you understand that the surname Mecias doesn't exist in Aguascalientes, Jalisco, or Zacatecas. The surname is Macias. Tresalba is not a surname either. It is a classification which means three quarters white. It comes from the term for horses with three white hooves.

Comment

Ha! Nicely done, David!

I had those dispensas and even that testamento in my tree, but hadn’t gotten around to researching them and connecting the dots; I just read the Marcos Gonzalez Hidalgo testamento, and it does say his cuñados are Bernardino and Diego Gonzalez de Yslas. This establishes a notarized link between the Gonzalez de Yslas and the surname “Lozano.” !GOL!

I also had Joseph Lozano, hijo natural of Cristobal Lozano de Yslas, in my tree, but I didn’t have his wife’s name. As it turns out, I had him and his wife in my tree, but from the marriage of another of their sons; once I merged the 2 Joseph Lozano’s, and placed Juana Gonzalez Lozano where she belongs, the tree came together nicely. It’s a workable template, we just need to find more documentation to support/refute it.

We also have to keep in mind that Maria de Yslas (m. Cristobal Lozano) might still be a daughter of Benito de la Ysla, in which case, the parentesco on the Diego Aguayo/Gertrudis Lozano dispensa

Comment

While being thorough, I have spotted a conflict among Holcombe’s letters regarding my theories about the parentage of Francisco Gonzalez (husband of Magdalena de Lavezaris).

Holcombe’s letters as they appear here:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/6invajbk0zzo4jm/Letters%20Edited%20for%20Dist…

On page 113 says:

“Bernardino’s parents come next on the Tree. Francisco González Martínez and Magdalena de Labesares. He came from Matabuena, Obispado de Segovia, in Spain, a son of Pedro Martínez and María González. Two brothers married in Aguascalientes.” This conflicts with what Holcombe says in his notes pg 8: “A probable other son of Juan Lozano and Inés Martínez was Francisco González Martínez.”

However, just because it appears in Holcombe’s letters does not mean it should be taken as the Alpha and Omega. I have spotted other minor errors in Holcombe’s letters unrelated to the topics in this forum. As such, Holcombe’s letters should invite new themes

Comment

Hola primos,

SEGOVIA & JAIME’S “CARTAS”

David, the Segovia origin for Francisco Gonzalez Martinez came to mind, after I left my last post, and I thought about editing it in, but I was in a rush and figured someone else would mention it. I’m glad you mentioned it.

Regarding Holcombe’s “Cartas,” I had a similar conversation with another NR member, and we agreed, that though we think they’re indispensable for this work, one still needs to verify. I feel the same way about all published works. Plus, every once in a while, a document comes along that changes everything we thought we knew about someone. Case in point: the Gonzalez de Hermosillo of Los Altos, coming over from Guadalcanal, instead of descending from the conquistador in DF.

“Lozano” and “Ynes Martinez Baca” appearing in the Gonzalez de Isla line still makes the possibility worth looking into, that Francisco Gonzalez Martinez descends from that line. I’m researching every “Ynes” descendant, 3-4 generations, to see if the

Comment

There have been errors in what Jaime Holcombe Isunza has deduced. It has happened more than once proven by records he hadn't known about out or skipped over for whatever reason. He did all of his work before the Internet and through the Archivo General de la Nación, and not LDS, as well as going to the churches themselves. All genealogists have made mistakes. I still haven't found a genealogist that hasn't made one. The primary records should always be searched for.

The reason I had brought up Jaime's letters is because they are what so many people base their information on, including the trees at Ancestry.com mentioned in the original post of this thread, and he does include information about primary records that weren't microfilmed. So at times the letters provide clues to primary records that need to be searched for elsewhere such as "Juana Navarro, wife of Benito de Isla, was buried in Teocaltiche on 28 Dec 1651. The albaceas of her will were Antonio de Ruvalcaba and Miguel

Comment

Well said, Armando. I consider Jaime's work an extremely useful roadmap, and indispensable, as I said.

This isn't a perfect science: besides losts or damaged documents, poor caligraphy and inconsistant orthography, there's the foggy memories of old testigos.

Quick question, and somewhat related to this thread: which Catalina Cortes is this?

Cathalina Cortes, cofrada del Santisimo Sacramento: Catalina Cortes, Espanola, died in Mexticacan 07 May 1652. Left no testament, but she did a memoria "before the judge, in which she declared a quantity of pesos owed her, and ordered some masses said. Buried in said church with open casket & vigil. Right image bottom:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-15206-417-37?cc=1804458&wc=M…

The wives of Juan de Sandoval and Mateo de Rubalcava died at later dates; could this be the wife of Geronimo de Benavides? She'd be around 100 years-old, according to my estimate.

Manny Diez Hermosillo

Comment

Hello Manny,

You listed Eugenia de Perea as the wife of guide de Lavesaris, El Viejo. In the same time frame, there was a printer /editor by the name of Lorenzo Perea that may be her father. He is listed along with Eugenia's husband, Guido De Lavesares, as a "librero de Sevilla."

Rick A Ricci

Comment

Are there any primary source documents connecting Maria de Islas to Andres Martines de Sotomayor?

Comment

Hi Alex,

The defunción of Maria de Islas says:

En dieciocho de junio de mil seiscientos sesenta y siete enterré en la parroquial de esta villa [Aguascalientes] a doña María de Isla mujer que fue de Andrés Martin, vecinos de esta villa. Confeso y estando para llevar le el viático pidieron solo el santo óleo por haberle dado un parasismo con cual lo recibió y la absolví por la Bula y de allí a media hora murió. Y por que conste lo firmé.

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-6S67-DJR

Chris

Comment

Hi Chris,

What does absolve por la Bula mean? What's a Bula?

Paige

Comment

Hi Paige,

It should be "la absolví por la Bula [de la Santa Cruzada]. If you've searched records in Nueva Galicia you've probably come across it before. I've seen it on several of my ancestors. Here's a link: https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bula_de_la_Santa_Cruzada

It appears that it was a papal bull that originally offered privileges and graces and indulgences to Spaniards that participated or supported the church against Muslims and heretics and later for works of charity and such.

Chris

Comment

Chris,

So how does one know this Maria de Isla is the sister of Magdalena de Lavezaris, wife of Francisco Gonzalez?

I'm just curious what evidence there is as to who her husband was. The only primary source I have confirming this Maria as the sister of Magdalena Lavezaris is the Joseph Diaz de Leon and Maria Catalina de Islas dispensa:

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-X4SG-P?i=191&wc=SS2Q-S…

This dispensa shows she had a daughter named Jacinta Martinez but does not name a husband. This of course provides some evidence of her marrying a Martin or Martinez.

Comment

Hi Alex,

That relevant part of the dispensa that establishes a María de Isla as sibling to Magdalena de Labesares says: doña María de Islas tuvo por hija a Jacinta Martínez y Jacinta Martínez tuvo por hijo a Jacinto Díaz y Jacinto Díaz tuvo por hijo a José Díaz de León, pretenso.

Jacinta Martinez who actually went by the name Jacinta de Sotomayor is the known daughter of Andres Martin de Sotomayor and María de Isla. The above dispensa is proven correct where her marriage to Juan Diaz de Leon states:

Juan Díaz de León vecino de esta minas de sierra de Pinos hijo legítimo de Juan Díaz de León y de Francisca de Ortega, vecinos de esta Real digo que quiero contraer matrimonio segun orden de la santa madre iglesia de Roma con Jacinta de Sotomayor, hija legítima de Andrés Martín y de María de Islas...

Jacinto Díaz was the known son of Jacinta de Sotomayor and Juan Díaz de León and married Sebastiana Gil and they were the known parents of Jose Díaz de León based on his marriage that

Comment

Chris,

Thank you for the information. This is exactly what I was looking for and is the confirmation which I didn't have! Im glad to be on the same page as everyone else.

Thanks again
Alex

Comment

Question 1
Recap of known information: Guido Lavesaris La Besares, Labeçares (LVBS-84T) was married to Ines Alvares de Gibraleon vuida that was accused of Hechicera (Sorceress) by her maid and had been married to Francisco Rodriguez de Çacatula Has anyone found the name of the First Wife of Guido that was killed by Indians?
El padre fray Nicolas de Witte escribe al emperador don Carlos una carta de recomendación para el desafortunado explorador: Nueva España. Lavezaris. Al Emperador. Fr. Nicolas de Witte = Mexico 15 de julio 1552. Suplica favorezca a Guido de Lavezaris el qual sirvio i gasto mas que otro ninguno en la jornada que armodon Antonio de Mendoza...el año 42 para las islas de Poniente trayendo mui gran razon de esas partes i de la navegacion dellas. Perdio su hacienda en aquella jornada i los indios le quitaron a su mujer.
Paragraph found in the following book
Guido de Lavezares
Relación del sucesso de la venida del tirano chino sobre este campo y de las demás cosas

Comment

Hola prim@s,

Has it been confirmed that this Juana Navarro was the the mother of Magdalena de Lavezaris and Maria de Isla? And has it been confirmed that she was daughter of Martin Gabay and Petronila de Moctezuma?

Thank you,
Manny Díez Hermosillo

Comment

I thought it was confirmed. But we need Mary Lou Montagna to answer this. The information came from an unindexed microfilm in the letters of Jaime Holcombe where it gives Juana Navarro's burial in Teocaltiche on 28 Dec 1651. And names the albaceas of her will as Antonio de Ruvalcaba and Miguel Martínez de Alarcón, vecinos de Teocaltiche.

Danny

Comment

Hola primos,

In my posts from 28 May 2015 and 31 May 2015, to support the argument that Francisco Gonzalez Martinez (cc Magdalena de Lavezaris) was the son of Juan Lozano and Ines Martinez Vaca y Gonzalez, I mentioned how his granddaughter, Ines de Islas (daughter of Bernardino de Islas and Mariana de Sandoval, and wife of Cristobal Mexia), appeared with the name “Ynez Martinez Baca” in the baptism record of her son, Bernardino Mexia. I have located another record on which she is given that same name, this one regarding land titles, so it was her legitimate name. These are titles and instruments for lands belonging to Matheo de Rubalcava, as the husband of Cecilia Vasquez de Yslas, and to her sister, Ynes Martinez Baca, widow of Cristobal Mexia.
Of interest, is the first land title, for a “sitio de ganado menor con dos caballerias de tierra” near the pueblo of Mexticacan, that their father, Bernardino de Yslas, had purchased from Geronimo Gonzalez de Aramburu and Elvira de Carvajal in

Comment

Hello Nuestros Ranchos Forum,

I've been really following this post with a lot of interest since I
recently traced myself to Antonio Trillo and Mariana Villalpando and on
their marriage it says Mariana Villalpando is the daughter of Ysabel Lozano
Gardea and so I'm really interested in posts about the Lozano's and
learning where Ysabel Lozano Gardea fits in. I don't know much about these
families and don't have much to contribute, but, I located this document
recently looking up information on Nueva Galicia and I noticed it mentions
Magdelena Lavezares.

http://www.casadelarchivo.gob.mx/sigloxvi/ANDARIEGOS_Y_POBLADORES.pdf

Danny C. Alonso

Comment

Hello, Danny,

My husband's 5th great-grandmother is Maria de San Juan Belasco Trillo. Her parents were Antonio Trillo and Mariana Villalpando. Maria married Nicolas Garcia, and my husband's name is Antonio Carlos Garcia. Thanks for the new info.

Emilie
Port Orchard, WA

> Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2015 00:53:34 -0700
> From: dcalonso97@gmail.com
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Christobal Martinez Lozano (I) & Francisco Gonzalez as Brothers
>
> Hello Nuestros Ranchos Forum,
>
> I've been really following this post with a lot of interest since I
> recently traced myself to Antonio Trillo and Mariana Villalpando and on
> their marriage it says Mariana Villalpando is the daughter of Ysabel Lozano
> Gardea and so I'm really interested in posts about the Lozano's and
> learning where Ysabel Lozano Gardea fits in. I don't know much about these
> families and don't have much to contribute, but, I located this document
> recently looking up information on

Comment

Danny,

Can you send me a copy of the marriage of Antonio Trillo and Mariana Villalpando, please? They are my husband's ancestors (his 6th great=grandparents).

Thanks,

Emilie
Port Orchard, WA

> Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2015 00:53:34 -0700
> From: dcalonso97@gmail.com
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Christobal Martinez Lozano (I) & Francisco Gonzalez as Brothers
>
> Hello Nuestros Ranchos Forum,
>
> I've been really following this post with a lot of interest since I
> recently traced myself to Antonio Trillo and Mariana Villalpando and on
> their marriage it says Mariana Villalpando is the daughter of Ysabel Lozano
> Gardea and so I'm really interested in posts about the Lozano's and
> learning where Ysabel Lozano Gardea fits in. I don't know much about these
> families and don't have much to contribute, but, I located this document
> recently looking up information on Nueva Galicia and I noticed it mentions
> Magdelena Lavezares.
>
> http://www

Comment

David,
now that I know where Ysabel Lozano Gardea fits in I'm even more excited. I
didn't realize I was actually connected to this same Lozano in the subject.
I'm trying to now piece everything together and am curious on the dropbox
letter where it says

“Bernardino’s parents come next on the Tree. Francisco González Martínez
and Magdalena de Labesares. He came from Matabuena, Obispado de Segovia, in
Spain, a son of Pedro Martínez and María González. Two brothers married in
Aguascalientes.” This conflicts with what Holcombe says in his notes pg 8:
“A probable other son of Juan Lozano and Inés Martínez was Francisco
González Martínez.”

Does that mean Bernardino is from Obispado de Segovia, Spain and the son of
Pedro Martinez and Maria Gonzalez or do they mean Francisco Gonzales
Martinez is?

Also did someone answer the question about the where the family group
letters were.

ps Emilie, here is the marriage for Mariana Villalpando

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-12446

Comment

Danny,
I still have the link to the Family Group Sheets but they appear to no longer be available to the general public. I believe if you're a member of the LDS Church or have a membership with affiliated organizations you probably can access the records as they're still online, but only available to members. A regular Family Search sign on won't work, but, here is the link if you can find someone with an account:

https://familysearch.org/search/collection/2060211
Christopher de Cuellar
 

Comment

I finally took some time to figure out how to find the information on the Family Group Sheets by Jaime Holcombe Isunza. They are part of Patron ordinance submission sheets, 1969-1991 https://familysearch.org/search/catalog/319732?availability=Family%20Hi…

The families can be searched at https://familysearch.org/search/collection/igi

So if you search for Cristobal Lozano then you will see a tree for Cristobal Lozano and Maria Isla at https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/2:1:M3BQ-HF1 and at the top right it says Submitted 6/12/2012 by jholcombe50905 and on the left it says Batch Number 8676301

Searching for 8676301 show it to be in film 1396287 and if you click on it you can put in an order for the film to be sent to the local Family History Center. You don't have to be a member of LDS to be able to do that.

The family of Martín Pérez de Gardea and Mariana González de Ruvalcaba (maternal grandparents of Mariana Gonzalez/Perez de Gardea alias Mariana de Bermejo) is at

Comment

David,

Here is what I have -

There were letters between Jaime Holcombe Isunza and Mary Lou Montagna that a lot of what is known or deduced comes from. Mary Lou would go to Mexico and visit the churches to see the documents herself. Mary Lou compiled information from the letters and their findings. This the following is some of what is found in the compilation of the letters.

The Benito de la Isla y Labesares, from Seville, who came in 1557 as a servant to whom was undoubtedly a relative, is my ancestor all right, but one generation before. Because there are documents on the other Benito’s two sisters, living in Nochistlán. The one that came from Spain came alone and single. So how do two sisters suddenly turn up? No way. The following fits in generationwise:

Benito de la Isla y Labesares married N.N.

1. María de la Concepción de Islas, married Juan Delgadillo, a son of Diego Delgadillo and Isabel Calderón.
2. Elvira de Islas, married Joseph González.
3. Benito

Comment

Maria de Isla (wife of Christobal Martinez Lozano) is definitely not the same person as Maria de Isla y Moctezuma (wife of Capitan Andres Martinez de Sotomayor). It's not because there seem to be too many children born to both of these women to be same one. It's because the dates that Christobal Martinez Lozano and María González de Isla had children was in early 1600 based on the marriage dates of those children and Christobal Martinez Lozano was buried 13 Mayo 1646 https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-11773-145304-59

Andrés Martín de Sotomayor and María González de Islas y Moctezuma were married prior to 22 Sep 1626 when their son Nicolás was baptized. https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-11824-53079-10

Therefore, it is impossible for Maria de Isla (wife of Christobal Martinez Lozano) to have been the same person as Maria de Isla y Moctezuma (wife of Capitan Andres Martinez de Sotomayor).

As far as the parents of those two Marías -

Maria de Isla (wife of

Comment

Hola primos,

All of this is very interesting. The 2 Benito de Isla's/ father & son, might explain a lot. I descend from all of these lines. Here's my 2 cents:

First of all, here's the IM for Pedro Rodriguez and Petrona de Islas-Ribera:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-15188-23673-32?cc=1804458&wc…

MARIA DE ISLAS Y MOCTEZUMA

Maria de Islas y Moctezuma, wife of Andres Martin de Sotomayor, was a sister of Magdalena de Lavezares, wife of Francisco Gonzalez Martinez, as established in this dispensa for Joseph Diaz de Leon-Gil and Catarina Gonzalez de Islas-Delgadillo (01 Nov 1709 Nochistlan):
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18427-2483-11?cc=1874591&wc=…

This would make her a daughter of Benito de la Isla and N.N. I've seen that Holcoombe has Cristobal Lozano's wife as a daughter, as well, but I can't find the source.

MARIA CONCEPCION DE ISLAS & ELVIRA DE ISLAS

I have to question the Maria Concepcion de Islas/ Elvira de Islas

Comment

Hola primo,

MARIA DE ISLAS Y MOCTEZUMA

Excellent work. Christopher Cuellar has also found the dispensa of Joseph Diaz de Leon-Gil and Catarina Gonzalez de Islas-Delgadillo but I wouldn't have noticed if you hadn't pointed it out. - http://www.wikitree.com/wiki/D%C3%ADaz_de_Le%C3%B3n-18

MARIA CONCEPCION DE ISLAS & ELVIRA DE ISLAS

Steven Francisco Hernández López has María de la Concepción de Islas married to Juan Delgadillo Calderón the son of Diego Delgadillo and Isabel de Calderón

I don't think that the Juan Delgadillo that married Elvira Martínez de Alarcón y González de Ruvalcaba is the same Juan Delgadillo that married María de la Concepción de Islas and if not there isn't an issue.

Elvira de Islas and María de la Concepción de Islas were sisters per the following dispensa of Onofre José Herrera & Manuela González- https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18409-48327-39

FRANCISCO GONZALEZ MARTINEZ

I'll look into this more once I have time.

Comment

​​Hola primos,

I'd like to get an idea of the timelines that these Islas women lived in, let's compare notes. Here's my take:

MARIA CONCEPCION DE ISLA: In my lines, I have Juan Delgadillo, son of Diego Delgadillo and Ysabel Calderon, and married to Maria Concepcion de Islas. I believe this is him, a testigo on the IM for Juan de Estrada and Margarita de Ortega, 17 Mar 1659; he signs his name “Jhoan Delgadillo” and gives his age as “50, poco mas o menos,” left image:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18564-63010-41?cc=1874591&wc…

That places his birth during the first decade of the 1600’s. Naturally, one could assume that his wife, Maria Concepcion de Islas, was born around the same time.

I have this union with 3 children; from the births and marriages of their children, I have these 3 born between 1629 and 1639:

a. Leonor de Bellocillo, m. Juan Morones
b. Diego Delgadillo, b. 1631, m1. Petronila de Islas, m2 Ysabel de Aguayo (in 1704

In reply to by jrefugioghermosillo

Comment

Manny,

I did receive the email. Thank you for providing me with the letters. From what I have looked that it has the same information from the document I linked in my first post of the thread. That document is at https://www.dropbox.com/s/6invajbk0zzo4jm/Letters%20Edited%20for%20Dist…

What I am also hoping to find are the family group sheets that Jaime Holcombe submitted to the LDS. I uploaded some examples to https://www.dropbox.com/sh/1gmvyck444nzewr/AABwy6Jqc998ouaZG4_wDatNa?dl…

These family group sheets have a lot of info on them and some of that info might not be in the letters.

The group sheets can be ordered from LDS but a there have been times I have ordered sheets and the people at LDS can't find them. The sheets don't show up in the searches anymore either or I just don't know how to search for them since site changed several years ago. I think that at the church they can be searched for.

Saludos

Comment

Hi Armando,

Thanks, I was unaware that the charts existed. There's a family center not far from my home - some day I need to make a visit!

Saludos,
Manny Diez Hermosillo

Comment

Hi David

Very interesting theory! I wish i had info for you, but the Isla line is not one i have ever researched. However, it would be good to get straight, the children of Petronila and Martin. You have found a reference in the forum to 3 daughters and 1 son. I seem to recall a post that named 2 daughters and 2 sons. I just did some searches for that post but cannot find it, so maybe i remember wrong. Could you post the link to the one you found? I am currently going through records from mex city in the late 1550s, if i see the isla name i will post here.

Regards
Denise Fastrup

Comment

Denise,

The forum that has a Petronila de Isla as the daughter of a Benito de Isla and a Juana Navarro appears here:

<>

The forum that has 3 daughters and 1 son for Martin de Gabay Navarro and Petronila de Moctezuma appears here:

<>

(Keep in mind that Ana-Francisca, Maria, and Christobal are provable siblings. the alleged Juana is the one that needs to be solidified.)

If you find anything please let me know. Even the smallest new confirmable detail can create a clearer picture in genealogy research.

Regards,

David

Comment

I don't think I fully understand how these trees work. Are the people on
line 1, brother and sister and then the people in line 2 are 1st Cousins
and then the people in line 3 are second cousins or is it read differently?

Andres Martin de Sotomayor......1.......Ysabel Martin
m. Maria de Isla y Moctezuma............m. Juan Diaz de la Huerta

Andres Martin Camacho...........2.......Josefa Diaz
m. Beatriz de Mayorga...................m. N.N.

Andres Martin de Sotomayor......3.......Angela Diaz
........................................m. Isidro Villalobos

................................4.......Juana Cayatana de Villalobos

Danny C. Alonso

Records for Fresnillo, Zac.

Does anyone have suggestions for going back further than what's extant on familysearch.org for records in Fresnillo? I'm looking for records from 1830s and previous and can't seem to locate any.

Comments

Comment

Hi, I have the same problem. My paternal line lived on/near the Hacienda Trujillo, just west of Fresnillo. The Online Family Search church records go no older than about 1858. My father and step mother lived in the area and they were 'unofficially' told church records before 1860ish were destroyed in the past during the Revolution. I have not been able to confirm this information. I was going to reach out to one of the LDS Family History Centers and inquire as they could have more information about the status of records from before 1860.

Comment

Hello, Hacienda Trujillo is my area of focus. I'm stuck at 1860. Can't find much before then for my Dobali ancestor, and others. I'll keep you posted on any new findings.

los Rubalcava-Gallardo de San Juan de los Lagos, circa 1715-1725

Dear Primos:

Comments

Comment

When asking for help, it is important to provide as much information as you can . You should add midddle names and any padrinos that you have found in the documents that you have already combed through. Another thing would be to write the different variations of Rubalcava that you have used in your search since there are many abbreviations for this name. The more information that you can provide, the easier it is for someone to pick up the search where you left off.

I found a record with Francisco using Xavier as a middle name. I can’t name how many variations of abbreviations of the Rubalcava I have seen as after a few minutes I can think of another one. Some of the abbreviations include different variations of Gonzalez along with Rubalcava.

It would also be helpful to know the names of the children that you have already found. Providing more specific dates also helps, especially the ages of the youngest child you have found along with the oldest child.

Francisco Xavier

Prieto, Valerie (Arroyo Ondo, Teocaltiche, JAL)

Dear Valerie,

Happy Father's Day and Welcome to nuestrosranchos. Here is some information for your tree. Hopefully these records will provide more clues that you can follow up on.

Comments

Comment

1). Lazaro Rodríguez + Ynes Chavez

2). Juan Rodríguez (bap.23Feb 1707) + Andrea Lopes

3).Juan Antonio Bricio Rodriguez + Ana Gregoria Estrada

4). Jose Miguel Rodriguez + Maria Antonia Lopez

5). Juan Ramon Rodriguez + Maria Vicenta Ximenez

6). Maria Antonia Rodriguez + Jesus Rubalcava

7). Maria Carmen Ruvalcava + Terezo Prieto

8). Gerardo Rubalcava y Prieto + Remedios Juarez

9). George J. Prieto y Juarez + Maria Mendez

10). Valerie Prieto y Mendez

Ana Gregoria de Estrada is the daughter of Francisco (?) Estrada and Maria Josepha Prieto. Not sure if the first name is Francisco.

Rick A. Ricci

Comment

Valerie

The two in the subject line are my 5th great grandparents.

There is a discrepancy which I would like to know if you can clear up. One of their children was Jose Miguel Rodriguez de Estrada and the Rodriguez patronym carried on through the next generations until my grandfather, Jose Pedro Rodriguez, and then to my mother who also carried the Rodriguez name.

Do you have any information about Juan Antonio Bricio Rodriguez; whether Bricio was his paternal last name; where he was born; who are his ancestors.

Thanks.

Charles Clark
cclarklaw807@pacbell.net

Comment

Hello Charles,

Juan Antonio Bricio Rodríguez and Ana Gregoria de Estrada were married in Teocaltiche, Jalisco on 4/Feb1764.

The record is on image 388 in film:

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939L-7MSD-MP?i=387&cc=18745…

Juan Antonio Bricio Rodríguez is the son of Juan Rodríguez and Andrea López

Juan Rodríguez and Andrea Lopes were married on 28Jan1733 in Teocaltiche, Jalisco.

Image 61# https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939L-7SS3-59?i=60&cc=1874591

Juan Rodríguez (baptized 23Feb 1707, tuxcacuesco, Jalisco)is the son of Lazaro Rodríguez and Ynes Chavez

Andrea López is the daughter of [ (?) Agustina ] Martinez de Savala

Ana Gregoria de Estrada is the daughter of Francisco Estrada and Maria Josepha Prieto.

Rick A. Ricci

Comment

Thank you for all the information, I had hit a brick wall and couldn't go further into the Rubalcava line. I still learning how to use your website but look forward to learning more and more.

In reply to by valprieto

Comment

Dear Valerie,

I have much more information on your ancestry as it hooks up with many of the founding patriarchs like Toribio Hernandez Arellano, Carlo Lomelin, Alvaro Ornelas, and others. I will later add more information Connecting you to these people. I am also writing a book(s) that will go even deeper into their roots in Spain and Portugal. These people are your ancestors through Maria Carmen Rubalcava.

Good luck in your research,

Rick A. Ricci

Comment

1). Juan Antonio Bricio Rodriguez + Ana Gregoria Estrada

2). Jose Miguel Rodriguez + Maria Antonia Lopez

3). Juan Ramon Rodriguez + Maria Vicenta Ximenez

4). Maria Antonia Rodriguez + Jesus Rubalcava

5) Maria Carmen Ruvalcava + Terezo Prieto

6) Gerardo Rubalcava y Prieto + Remedios Juarez

7). George J. Prieto y Juarez + Maria Mendez

8). Valerie Prieto y Mendez

Rick A. Ricci

P.S here are the sources:

Maria Antonia Rodrigues Ximenes
Gender Female
Christening Date 21 Jan 1839
Christening Place NOCHISTLAN,ZACATECAS,MEXICO
Father's Name Ramon Rodrigues
Mother's Name Visenta Ximenes
Citing this Record
"México bautismos, 1560-1950," database, FamilySearch(https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NVQK-GBT : 12 December 2014), Visenta Ximenes in entry for Maria Antonia Rodrigues Ximenes, 21 Jan 1839; citing NOCHISTLAN,ZACATECAS,MEXICO, reference ; FHL microfilm 226,665

Father's Name Juan Ramon Rodrigues
Mother's Name Vicenta Ximenes

Juan Ramon Rodriguez
Event Type Baptism
Event

Comment

Maria Antonia Rodrigues Ximenes
Gender Female
Christening Date 21 Jan 1839
Christening Place NOCHISTLAN,ZACATECAS,MEXICO
Father's Name Ramon Rodrigues
Mother's Name Visenta Ximenes
Citing this Record
"México bautismos, 1560-1950," database, FamilySearch(https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NVQK-GBT : 12 December 2014), Visenta Ximenes in entry for Maria Antonia Rodrigues Ximenes, 21 Jan 1839; citing NOCHISTLAN,ZACATECAS,MEXICO, reference ; FHL microfilm 226,665

Father's Name Juan Ramon Rodrigues
Mother's Name Vicenta Ximenes

Ramon Rodrigues son of Miguel Rodriguez and Maria Antonia Lopez
Spouse's Name Maria Visente Ximenes daughter of Jose Maria Ximenez and Maria Bacilia Sandoval
Event Date 29 Jan 1823
Event Place Nochistlan,Zacatecas,Mexico
Citing this Record
"México matrimonios, 1570-1950," database, FamilySearch(https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JZNR-V56 : 16 July 2015), Ramon Rodrigues and Maria Visente Ximenes, 29 Jan 1823; citing Nochistlan,Zacatecas,Mexico

Comment

Alejandro Diaz De Santiago son of Luis Diaz de Santiago and Catharina Ruiz de Salazar
Spouse's Name Juana Antonia Gabriela De Lomeli daughter of Gerardo Lomelin and Maria Josepha Delgadillo
Event Date 29 Feb 1756
Event Place Nochistlan,Zacatecas,Mexico
Citing this Record
"México matrimonios, 1570-1950," database, FamilySearch(https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JZXF-F7W : 16 July 2015), Alejandro Diaz De Santiago and Juana Antonia Gabriela De Lomeli, 29 Feb 1756; citing Nochistlan,Zacatecas,Mexico, reference ; FHL microfilm 226,726:

image number 506 out of 603.

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939N-T79N-DH?i=505&wc=3P9F-RM9%…

His brother, Ignacio Diaz de Santiago married her sister, Clara Jpha de Lomeli on the same day.

Gerardo De Lomeli
mentioned in the record of Gerardo De Lomeli and Maria Josepha Delgadillo
Name Gerardo De Lomeli
Spouse's Name Maria Josepha Delgadillo
Event Date 24 Nov 1728
Event Place Nochistlan

Comment

Manuel Sanches
Spouse's Name Maria Teresa Sabedra
Event Date 02 Feb 1718
Event Place Nuestra Senora De La Asuncion,Jalostotitlan,Jalisco,Mexico
Citing this Record
"México matrimonios, 1570-1950," database, FamilySearch(https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JC81-9ZM : 15 July 2015), Manuel Sanches and Maria Teresa Sabedra, 02 Feb 1718; citing Nuestra Senora De La Asuncion,Jalostotitlan,Jalisco,Mexico, reference ;

FHL microfilm 279,295.

Image 97 out of 557

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-XYC7?i=96&wc=3J4P-VZH%3A17…

Manuel Sanchez is the son of Joseph Sanchez and Agustina Perez
Maria Teresa Sabedra is the daughter of Juan Antonio Sabedra and Maria Sanchez.

Ma. Theresa Sabedra Sanches
Gender Female
Christening Date 07 Apr 1701
Christening Place NUESTRA SENORA DE LA ASUNCION,JALOSTOTITLAN,JALISCO,MEXICO
Father's Name Jn. Antto. Sabedra
Mother's Name Ma. Sanches
Citing this Record
"México bautismos, 1560-1950," database

Comment

Jose Maria De Quesada
Spouse's Name Maria Josefa Esqueda
Event Date 06 May 1801
Event Place San Juan De Los Lagos,Jalisco,Mexico
Citing this Record
"México matrimonios, 1570-1950," database, FamilySearch(https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JZV5-6ZT : 16 July 2015), Jose Maria De Quesada and Maria Josefa Esqueda, 06 May 1801; citing San Juan De Los Lagos,Jalisco,Mexico, reference ; FHL microfilm 220,709.

Image number 112 Out of 626.

Link: https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-KMSF-FR?i=111&wc=3J8D-HZ9%…

Jose Maria Quesada is the son of Antonio Quesada and Anna Maria Aguilera
Maria Josefa Esqueda is the daughter of Jose Maria Esqueda and Maria Geralda Lupercio.

Joseph Maria Esgueda
Spouse's Name Maria Geralda Lupercio
Event Date 12 Apr 1780
Event Place Nuestra Senora De La Asuncion,Jalostotitlan,Jalisco,Mexico
Father's Name Phelipe Esgueda
Mother's Name Maria Lucia Moran
Spouse's Father's Name Juan Antonio Lupercio

Comment

1). Nicolas de Rubalcava + Juana Saucedo

2). Cristoval Rubalcava + Maria de Jesus Diaz

3). Jose Tomas Rubalcava + Maria de Los Dolores Quesada

4). Jesus Ruvalcava + Maria Antonia Rodriguez

5) Maria Carmen Ruvalcava + Terezo Prieto

6) Gerardo Rubalcava y Prieto + Remedios Juarez

7). George J. Prieto y Juarez + Maria Mendez

8). Valerie Prieto y Mendez

//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
1) Luis Diaz de Santiago + Catharina Ruiz de Salaza

2) Alejandro Diaz De Santiago + Juana Antonia Gabriela De Lomeli

3) Maria de Jesus Diaz + Cristoval Rubalcava

4). Jose Tomas Rubalcava + Maria de Los Dolores Quesada

5) Jesus Ruvalcava + Maria Antonia Rodriguez

6). Maria Carmen Ruvalcava + Terezo Prieto

7). Gerardo Rubalcava y Prieto + Remedios Juarez

8). George J. Prieto y Juarez + Maria Mendez

9). Valerie Prieto y Mendez

Rick A. Ricci

Comment

Alejandro Diaz De Santiago
Spouse's Name Juana Antonia Gabriela De Lomeli
Event Date 29 Feb 1756
Event Place Nochistlan,Zacatecas,Mexico
Citing this Record
"México matrimonios, 1570-1950," database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JZXF-F77 : 16 July 2015), Alejandro Diaz De Santiago and Juana Antonia Gabriela De Lomeli, 29 Feb 1756; citing Nochistlan,Zacatecas,Mexico, reference ; FHL microfilm 226,726.

Rick A. Ricci

Comment

Jose Christobal De Robalcaba
Spouse's Name Maria De Jesus Dias
Event Date 05 Feb 1783
Event Place Nuestra Senora De Los Dolores,Teocaltiche,Jalisco,Mexico
Citing this Record
"México matrimonios, 1570-1950," database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JCDW-V48 : 15 July 2015), Jose Christobal De Robalcaba and Maria De Jesus Dias, 05 Feb 1783; citing Nuestra Senora De Los Dolores,Teocaltiche,Jalisco,Mexico, reference ; FHL microfilm 639,758.

María De Jesus De Robalcaba
Gender Female
Christening Date 08 Jan 1766
Christening Place Nuestra Señora de los Dolores, Teocaltiche, Jalisco, Mexico
Father's Name Nicolas De Robalcaba
Mother's Name Juana Sausedo
Citing this Record
"México bautismos, 1560-1950," database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N2VD-WPY : 12 December 2014), Nicolas De Robalcaba in entry for María De Jesus De Robalcaba, 08 Jan 1766; citing Nuestra Señora de los Dolores, Teocaltiche, Jalisco, Mexico, reference ; FHL microfilm 634,021

Comment

Jesus Ruvolcaba
Spouse's Name Maria Antonia Rodriguez
Event Date 18 Feb 1857
Event Place Nochistlan,Zacatecas,Mexico
Citing this Record
"México matrimonios, 1570-1950," database, FamilySearch(https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JZXF-29S : 16 July 2015), Jesus Ruvolcaba and Maria Antonia Rodriguez, 18 Feb 1857; citing Nochistlan,Zacatecas,Mexico, reference ; FHL microfilm 226,732.

Image 68 out of 677
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939J-6439-C7.jpg?ctx=CrxCtxPubl…

Jesus es hijo legitimo de Tomas Ruvalcava y Dolores Quesada

Tomas Ruvalcava and Dolores are the parents of Jesus Ruvalcava who is a widower when he marries Maria Antonia Rodriguez.
Juan Roman Rodriguez and Vicenta Jimenez are the parents of Maria Antonia Rodriguez who is 18 years old when she marries according to the marriage record.

Tomas Rovalcaba
Birth Date 1800
Age 22
Spouse's Name Maria De Los Dolores

Comment

Maria Carmen is the daughter of Jesus Rubalcava and Maria Antonia Rodriguez

Terezo Prieto
Spouse's Name Carmen Rubalcava
Event Date 07 Sep 1875
Event Place Nochistlan,Zacatecas,Mexico
Citing this Record
"México matrimonios, 1570-1950," database, FamilySearch(https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JZXF-XMF : 16 July 2015), Terezo Prieto and Carmen Rubalcava, 07 Sep 1875; citing Nochistlan,Zacatecas,Mexico, reference ; FHL microfilm 226,734.

Image number 83 out of 447

Link to the marriage record:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939J-649X-DY?i=82&wc=3PSV-YWG%3…

Jesus Ruvolcaba
Spouse's Name Maria Antonia Rodriguez
Event Date 18 Feb 1857
Event Place Nochistlan,Zacatecas,Mexico
Citing this Record
"México matrimonios, 1570-1950," database, FamilySearch(https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JZXF-29S : 16 July 2015), Jesus Ruvolcaba and Maria Antonia Rodriguez, 18 Feb 1857; citing Nochistlan,Zacatecas,Mexico, reference ; FHL

Correas in Tepechitlan, Atolinga y Tlaltenango

I am looking for ancestors on Desiderio Correa casado con Quirina Ximenes por los 1820's

Comments

Comment

1.) Antonio de Miramontes and Maria de Esquibel

2.) Isabel de Miramontes and Andres Martinez Correa and
3.) Francisco Antonio Correa and Maria Sandoval de Guzman
4.) Baltazar de los Relles Correa and Magdalena D’Avila Salcedo
5.) Jose Felipe de Santiago Correa and Rosa Castañeda Delgado
6.) Jph. Ma. Desciderio Correa and Ma. Quirina Ximenez

Rick A. Ricci

Comment

Deciderio Correa is the son of Felipe De Santiago Correa D’Avila and Rosa Castañeda Delgado. Quirina is the daughter of Jose Laureano Ximenez and Maria Guadalupe Chavez.

Deciderio’s whole name Is José María Desiderio Correa Castañeda.

Quirina’s whole name is Maria Quirina Ximenez de Chavez.

Deciderio and Quirina were married on 6 Sep 1826.

I have much more information on their ancestry but it is almost 2:00 in the morning so I will leave that for another day.

I am distantly related to them thorough my Ruiz De Esparza ancestry. Deciderio Correa descends from Lope Ruiz De Esparza.

Rick A. Ricci

Comment

Thank you very much Rik. I ran across a Correa family, descendants of Desiderio but I could not find his marriage and thanks to you now I discovered some distant cousins.. ..thank you