Dr.mt

Escovedo (Escobedo), Chalchihuites, Zacatecas

Published by garysarah –
Forums
Genealogy Research

Thank you for letting us join the group. We are researching mainly Escovedo (Escobedo) family geneology in Zacatecas.

Surnames Researching
Escobedo (Escovedo)
Broines
Rojas

Comments

Published by Esther_Jordan_Lopez – Tue, 2012-03-06 09:15 | Permalink

Comment

This is what I found in FamilySearch for Claro Escovedo (Escobedo) married
to Remigia Rojas with the following children: In reverse order Jose Sotero
Escobedo, ch. 5 May 1889, Chalchihuites, Zacatecas; Antonio Escobedo, b. 27
June 1887, Chalchihuites, Zacatecas (married to Altagracia Briones)
This is the first child to Claro and Remigia Rojas: Je. Florentino
Octaviana de Jesus Escobedo, ch. 22 March 1885, Suchil, Durango. So do you
think that maybe they started off in Durango before going on to Zacatecas?
I would look for a marriage or matrimonial information in Durango and start
in 1884 and go back just in case they had other children before 1885? I'll
check a little but I think Bill and Armando may give you some better ideas.

--Esther Jordan Lopez

On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 5:49 AM, wrote:

> Thank you for letting us join the group. We are researching mainly
> Escovedo (Escobedo) family geneology in Zacatecas.
>
> Surnames Researching
> Escobedo (Escovedo)
> Broines
> Rojas
>
>

Read full comment ➜

Comment

José Antonio baptized 27 Jun 1887 and born on the 9th. The baptism mentions
his abuelos paternos as Jesus Esovedo and Ma Cristobal Gutierrez and
maternos as Francisco Rojas and Ma. Higina Lopez.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-15672-4853-71?cc=1410092&wc=…

The abuelos paternos and maternos had children in Huejuquilla el Alto,
Jalisco.

Claro's baptism info - https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/J96H-17H

Escobedo Gutierrez children
https://www.familysearch.org/search/records/index#count=20&query=%2Bany…

Rojo Lopez children
https://www.familysearch.org/search/records/index#count=20&query=%2Bany…

Online Images for Huejuquilla el Alto
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3

Read full comment ➜

Comment

Claro's baptism
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18687-116930-10?cc=1874591&w…

Claro abuelos paternos were Teodicio Escobedo and Josefa Chavira. The
following are their children -
https://www.familysearch.org/search/records/index#count=20&query=%2Bany…

Claro's abuelos maternos were Agapito Gutierrez and Eusebia Perez. The
following are their children -
https://www.familysearch.org/search/records/index#count=20&query=%2Bany…

Armando

Comment

Baptism of Pedro Antonio Gtz Perez
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18686-93614-85?cc=1874591&wc…

Abuelos Paternos children
https://www.familysearch.org/search/records/index#count=20&query=%2Bany…

Abuelos Maternos children
https://www.familysearch.org/search/records/index#count=20&query=%2Bany…

Armando

Comment

WOW - we just added possibly 3 generations to our family tree.
Armando - how do you search through the handwritten church records? Visually look at each one or has someone made an index?
Thanks again,
Gary & Sarah Miller

Published by Armando – Wed, 2012-03-07 15:30 | Permalink

Comment

You should easily be able to find at least a 4th generation by looking up
the baptisms. There isn't an index for Huejuquilla that I know of. As far
as searching for the digital copy of the baptism, I make a guess where the
record would be in the volume then jump back and forth until I find the
record I am looking for. Sometimes I can find a record in about six
attempts or 10 to 15 minutes depending the quality of the image and the
handwriting.

Armando

On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 9:52 PM, wrote:

> WOW - we just added possibly 3 generations to our family tree.
> Armando - how do you search through the handwritten church records?
> Visually look at each one or has someone made an index? Thanks again,
> Gary & Sarah Miller

Where to Find Records: GuadalajaraDispensas

Published by Claudia_Reynoso –
Forums
Genealogy Research

This is a reply to A_Tejano, and others who want to know where the Guadalajara Dispensas are located:

Comments

Published by chilerey54 – Wed, 2012-03-07 11:15 | Permalink

Comment

I too ,cannot get into Guadalajara Dispensas,need help.
Ronnie Reynoso

FW: Southern California Genealogical Society Conference

Published by RaquelRuiz –
Forums
History, Culture and General Discussion

This doesn't fit into my schedule this year but it sounds very
interesting. I would be very interested in reading reviews of anyone who
attends.
Raquel Ruiz

>

Comments

Published by maven200 – Tue, 2012-03-06 21:25 | Permalink

Comment

Maven200

Sounds incredible. I wish i could attend but I will be on vacation. Bummer...

ANTONIO PRIETO GALLARDO e YSABEL MUÑIZ DE MESA

Published by victor_manuel_gp –
Forums
Genealogy Research

Comments

Published by Bill_Figueroa – Mon, 2012-03-05 23:15 | Permalink

Comment

Aqui las tienes. Hace unos minutos te mandé otro mensaje sobre los Prieto Gallardo.

Al margen: "Antonio Prieto con Isabel Muñis"

"En la Villa de Aguas Calientes
en ocho dias del mes de henero de
mil y seiscientos y quarenta i cinco años a la hora
de las ocho de la noche aviendo presedido lo dispues-
to por el Santo Concilio de Trento y las amonestaciones
en primero de henero Domingo dia de la Circunsicion
del Señor, dia de la epifania y en ocho Do-
mingo del dicho mes y año case y no vele Antonio
Prieto natural desta jurisdiscion de edad de
veinte años hijo de Francisco Prieto ya difunto con
ysabel Muñis de edad de veinte años y ...........
nos vezina desta villa hija de Diego de mesa
y de maria de peralta sus padres ligitimos naturales
del pueblo de San Luis fueron testigos a verlos
casar y ........ Diego Ruis de los inojos Alon-
zo Martin Mateos y Mateo Rodriguez Gallardo
y para que de ella conste lo firme ut supra"
[firma] Br. Juan Gallegos

Read full comment ➜

JUAN MANUEL DE VILLAPANDO=MARIA GERTRUDIS SOTO

Published by Paul_Gomez –
Forums
Genealogy Research

Buenos Dias,

Comments

Published by Armando – Mon, 2012-03-05 14:45 | Permalink

Comment

Hello Paul.

According to an index I have been making for myself and what is in the
search the record should be found online around image 203 film 639756
Matrimonios 1690-1768 That image starts with 16 Feb 1757

Groom's Name: Juan Manl. De Villalpandio Bride's Name: Maria Gertrudis
Soto Marriage Date: 20 Feb 1757 Marriage Place: Nuestra Senora De Los
Dolores,Teocaltiche,Jalisco,Mexico Indexing Project (Batch) Number:
M60248-8
System
Origin: Mexico-ODM Source Film Number: 639756
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/JCDS-ZXT

Link to images
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-19050-63756-97?cc=1874591&wc…

Film 639756 includes the following:
Matrimonios 1690 (2 partidas de 17-18 ene.), 1753 (ene.-jun.), 1680
(mayo)-1690 (ene.); 1753 (mayo)-1766 (nov.); 1765 (abr.)-1768 (abr.)
https://familysearch.org/#form=catalog&catSearchType=film_number

There is something going on with the website at the moment that doesn't
allow me to view the online images and you might

Read full comment ➜

Comment

Found it! Thank you, Armando.

-----Original Message-----
From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of Armando
Sent: Monday, March 05, 2012 1:42 PM
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] JUAN MANUEL DE VILLAPANDO=MARIA GERTRUDIS
SOTO

Hello Paul.

According to an index I have been making for myself and what is in the
search the record should be found online around image 203 film 639756
Matrimonios 1690-1768 That image starts with 16 Feb 1757

Groom's Name: Juan Manl. De Villalpandio Bride's Name: Maria Gertrudis Soto
Marriage Date: 20 Feb 1757 Marriage Place: Nuestra Senora De Los
Dolores,Teocaltiche,Jalisco,Mexico Indexing Project (Batch) Number:
M60248-8
System
Origin: Mexico-ODM Source Film Number: 639756
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/JCDS-ZXT

Link to images
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-19050-63756-97?cc=1874591&wc…
0889

Film 639756 includes the following

Read full comment ➜

1553 Mexico City baptism record; need help re: Montemayor reference

Published by PINEDA37 –
Forums
Genealogy Research

Hello everyone --

I came across an interesting 1553 baptism record in Mexico City. Among the witnesses listed are Cristobal Onate, Hernan Peres de Bocanegra and Antonio de la Cadena.

Comments

Published by Jaime_Alvarado – Fri, 2012-03-02 22:00 | Permalink

Comment

Chris,
The information you provide regarding roots of Monterrey/Saltillo founding families you is extremely interesting to me as all the individuals you list are my direct ancestors. Regarding the document where the name ___?___ Montemayor is listed, it appears as some kind of abbreviation after what appears to read "don 'al' de Montemayor". Sorry I cannot be of more help.

Sincerely

Jaime Alvarado

Published by PINEDA37 – Thu, 2012-03-01 16:15 | Permalink

Comment

Bill -- Thanks for your help! It's so obvious now! Thanks for taking the time to look at this.

CP

>
> Chris,
>
> I believe the baptismal record reads as follows:
>
> "En quatro del mes de julio se bautizo jeronima hija de
> martin de Can
> pos y de su muger lixitima leonor de [ilegible] fueron sus
> padrinos
> el Se?or doctor don Rafael de Cerbanes tesorero desta Santa
> Yglesia
> y don Alo. de Montemayor y hernan perez de Bocanegra y
> Xptobal
> de O?ate y antonio de la Cadena"
>                
>                
>                
>     [firma] Rafael de
> Cerbanes
>                
>                
>                
>            
>    Doctor
>
> In modern Spanish:
>
> "En cuatro del mes de julio se bautiz? Jer?nima, hija de
> Mart?n de Cam-
> pos y de su leg?tima mujer Leonor de [ilegible]. 
> Fueron sus padrinos
> el Sr. Dr. don Rafael de Cerbanes, Tesorero de esta Santa
> Iglesia,
> don Alonso de Montemayor, Hern?n P?rez de Bocanegra,
> Crist?bal
> de O?ate y

Read full comment ➜

Comment

Hello Chris:

Dr. Thomas Hillerkuss at the Zacatecas University has been researching colonial families of Zacatecas and Mexico from the 16th and 17th centuries. On his work "Entre la ambicion por el poder y la riqueza. El tortuoso camino de los Salazar y de los Onate hacia las altas esferas de la sociedad novohispana", MY translation would be: "Between power and wealth ambition. The tortous path of the Salazar and the Onate towards novohispanic society high circles" he mentions the baptism you were asking for. In page 14 he writes " .... on 4 of july of 1547, with Doctor Don Rafael de Cervanes, cathedral treasurer and with the capital (Mexico City) ordinary mayor, don Antonio de la Cadena brother in law of the future father in law of Cristobal, baptized Geronima, daughter of Martin de Campos and of Leonor de Acosta".

Dr. Hillerkuss cites as referenc a book about the sacramental acts of mexico city in the 16th century.

Hopes this helps and the document from Dr. Hillerkuss can be

Read full comment ➜

Published by Bill_Figueroa – Wed, 2012-02-29 19:15 | Permalink

Comment

Chris,

I believe the baptismal record reads as follows:

"En quatro del mes de julio se bautizo jeronima hija de martin de Can
pos y de su muger lixitima leonor de [ilegible] fueron sus padrinos
el Señor doctor don Rafael de Cerbanes tesorero desta Santa Yglesia
y don Alo. de Montemayor y hernan perez de Bocanegra y Xptobal
de Oñate y antonio de la Cadena"
[firma] Rafael de
Cerbanes
Doctor

In modern Spanish:

"En cuatro del mes de julio se bautizó Jerónima, hija de Martín de Cam-
pos y de su legítima mujer Leonor de [ilegible]. Fueron sus padrinos
el Sr. Dr. don Rafael de Cerbanes, Tesorero de esta Santa Iglesia,
don Alonso de Montemayor, Hernán Pérez de Bocanegra, Cristóbal
de Oñate y Antonio de la Cadena."
[firma] Rafael de Cerbanes
(Cervantes?)
Doctor

Read full comment ➜

Jeronimo Rosales and Josepha Romo de Vivar

Published by HaciendaRomo –
Forums
Genealogy Research

Ayuda por favor
My GGGGGGG grandfather Jeronimo Rosales b. 1689 married Josepha Romo de Vivar b. 1689, daughter of Francisco Romo de Vivar Rangel and Lorenza Ruis de Esparza

Comments

Published by Bill_Figueroa – Fri, 2012-03-02 10:00 | Permalink

Comment

Hi Aurora,

Are Jerónimo Rosales Romo and María de los Dolores de la Torre (married 3 Feb 1744 in Aguascalientes) your 7G grandparents? [Matrimonios 1736-1746, Image 269/362 Foja 265b]. The link to their marriage record is as follows:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-11592-123717-90?cc=1410092…

I have not found any other Jerónimo de Rosales married to a Josepha Romo de Vivar in Aguascalientes, so the children you've found plus Jerónimo Rosales Romo (14 siblings) are correct.

BILL FIGUEROA

----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Friday, February 24, 2012 6:17 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Jeronimo Rosales and Josepha Romo de Vivar

Ayuda por favor
My GGGGGGG grandfather Jeronimo Rosales b. 1689 married Josepha Romo de Vivar b. 1689, daughter of Francisco Romo de Vivar Rangel and Lorenza Ruis de Esparza

In researching (my GGGGGG) Jeronimo Rosales Romo de Vivar’s siblings I found a total of 13. Most born in Aguascalientes, Ags. -- some in Cienega

Read full comment ➜

Comment

Hi Bill,
Thank you for checking this out.
I also could not find any other couple by that name in that same period. Jeronimo Rosales Romo and Maria de La Torre are my 7G grandparents. Jeronimo being the child of Jeronimo Rosales Garcia and Josepha Romo de Vivar.
I have found Romo de Vivar's in my Olivares and De Anda family trees. Also my maternal grandmother was a Romo Rodriguez and my husband is a Romo. I have traced them all back to Diego Romo de Vivar and Catalina Perez of Spain.
I have found it quite interesting how many of my family lines have crossed at some time or another throughout the centuries.
Again thank you,
Aurora De Anda Romo

Published by victorianonavarro (not verified) – Sun, 2012-02-26 22:19 | Permalink

Comment

I have seen some examples in Coahuila in the late 1800's-early 1900's where 2 or 3 siblings have the same name, with the older one still alive and well when the next one was born. Sometimes they have the same father but different mothers. Sometimes but not always they have a different first or middle name.
Evaristo Madero had 3 daughters called Bárbara with 2 wives, they all survived childhood.

Victoriano Navarro

Comment

I too have seen families with 2 children living at the same time with the same exact name. In one case, one was much older than the other, so perhaps they named the younger one after him to honor him? Also, there is the possibility that they knew two different godfathers with the same name so two sons were named the same but after different god-fathers?

Emilie
Port Orchard, WA

> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: mnavarrovillalobos@yahoo.com.mx
> Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2012 21:19:59 -0800
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Siblings with same name
>
> I have seen some examples in Coahuila in the late 1800's-early 1900's where 2 or 3 siblings have the same name, with the older one still alive and well when the next one was born. Sometimes they have the same father but different mothers. Sometimes but not always they have a different first or middle name.
> Evaristo Madero had 3 daughters called Bárbara with 2 wives, they all survived childhood.
>
> Victoriano Navarro

Read full comment ➜

Published by Pat_Silva_Corbera – Sat, 2012-02-25 12:45 | Permalink

Comment

Hi Aurora,

I can not answer your question if the duplicated names are of two different families. 

 

I found to be a common practice when I was researching my Madeira, Portugal ancestors, that when a child died, that same name was then given to another child with in the same family. 

 

This practice happened with one of my own siblings...  My parent's second born was a son named Manuel, born 1919, he died shortly after.  Their third child was also a son, but given a different first name, it wasn't until their fifth child was born, a son that he was given the name of Manuel.

This naming practice often would happen with the very next child of the same sex, but now always.

 

 

Pat Silva Corbera 

   

Comment

Thank you Pat,

I have come across using the same name of the deceased children. I had not seen it done for 3 children in the same family and the fact that some were born in another town gave me some doubts.
By the way, my grandmother was named Paula Silva b. 1880 in Calvillo, Ags. My G. grandparents Ireneo Silva and Merced Martinez married Oct 8, 1873, GGG Ysidro de Silva and Maria Antonia Ortiz married 1829.
Where are your Silva relatives from?

Aurora De Anda Romo

Comment

I've found in not unusual to name twins the same name. In one family I though he had a second family until I found his brother and wife as godparents to one of his children.  Without this one record I would have had a real problem seperating them. This was in Jerez, Zacatecas.
Linda in Everett

________________________________
From: "aderomo@msn.com"
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2012 12:34 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Siblings with same names

Thank you Pat,

I have come across using the same name of the deceased children. I had not seen it done for 3 children in the same family and the fact that some were born in another town gave me some doubts. By the way, my grandmother was named Paula Silva b. 1880 in Calvillo, Ags. My G. grandparents Ireneo Silva and Merced Martinez married Oct 8, 1873, GGG Ysidro de Silva and Maria Antonia Ortiz married 1829. Where are your Silva relatives from?

Aurora De Anda Romo

Comment

It was very common that if one child with a certain name died and then
another one was born, this other child will be name the same as the dead
child

On Sun, Feb 26, 2012 at 1:34 PM, wrote:

> Thank you Pat,
>
> I have come across using the same name of the deceased children. I had not
> seen it done for 3 children in the same family and the fact that some were
> born in another town gave me some doubts. By the way, my grandmother was
> named Paula Silva b. 1880 in Calvillo, Ags. My G. grandparents Ireneo Silva
> and Merced Martinez married Oct 8, 1873, GGG Ysidro de Silva and Maria
> Antonia Ortiz married 1829. Where are your Silva relatives from?
>
> Aurora De Anda Romo

Comment

Hi Aurora,

 

Anything is possible, but I agree 3 children born with-in the same family dying and their names being passed to 3 more children, seems a little strange, but it may just be correct.

 

Large families, with many offspring dying.  Tino's paternal grandmother I understand had 10 children, with many dying.  By the time she migrated to the USA in 1927 there were only three that reached adulthood.

 

The only Silva, to date, that appears in Tino's ancestry is Simona da Silva married to Macario de Espitia... The only information we have for Simona is that she  was buried 17 Aug 1719 Aguascalientes.

 

My Silva ancestors were from the island of Madeira, Portugal, dating back to the mid 1600s.  My maternal grandparents, my mother and her brother migrated in 1906 to Massachusetts.  Our original surame is "daSilva Se'." By the time I was born it was shortened to Silva...

 

Pat Silva Corbera

Tracy CA

 

 

 
 

----- Original Message -----
From: aderomo@msn.com

Read full comment ➜

Published by Angelina_Markle – Fri, 2012-02-24 18:15 | Permalink

Comment

Aurora,

All I can say is that it was not uncommon for siblings to have common
names - especially with the high childhood mortality rates of the times.

-Angelina-

My Great Grandfather Calixto Madera Brothers and Sisters of Huejuquilla El Alto, Jalisco, Mexico

Published by MADERA_32 –
Forums
Genealogy Research

I am browsing Baptismos and search for the copy of my great grandfather Calixto Madera De La Paz.

Comments

Published by MADERA_32 – Fri, 2012-03-02 19:13 | Permalink

Comment

Antonio

Defunto (Burial) of Julian Madera De La Paz (Calixto Madera De La Paz brother)
Age: 73 yrs.
Wife - Luisa Escalante

Parents - Patricio Madera/Maria Dimas De La Paz

Domicilio (Home) - Mesa del Santo Cristo

Date of defunto - October 22, 1925

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18447-7218-52?cc=1874591&wc=…
http://imageshack.us/f/825/julianmaderadelapaz.jpg/

Defunto - Julia Madera, Parbula 2 yrs. 1885 (La Mesa) Hija de Calixto Madera/Clemencia Ramirez (Madera?)

http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg37/scaled.php?server=37&filename=julia…

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18447-7131-58?cc=1874591&wc=…

Defunto - Modesta Madera, Parbula 2 yrs, 1885 (Jimulco) Hija de Calixto Madera/Clemencia Ramirez (Madera?)

http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/6427/modestamadera2yrs1885ji.jpg
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18447-7021-17?cc=1874591&wc=…

wedding certificate translation help

Published by arturobuco –
Forums
Genealogy Research

Iam having difficulty with a document. Could anyone help me translate this document?
http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/20391
I really apreciate the help!

Comments

Published by victorianonavarro (not verified) – Thu, 2012-03-01 21:09 | Permalink

Comment

Hi,

I don't think the ceremony took place in a hospital as we know them. It took place in the church of a Hospitalary Religious Order, which would provide hospitality to the sick and/or travelers on premises close to their church. It is indeed a proof of matrimony and there should be a marriage certificate and maybe even marriage informations in Zacatecas.

I once saw a document like this one from Parral, Chihuahua, from the late 1700's. The groom married the bride by proxy about one year earlier in another State; meaning that the groom did not attend his own wedding but someone else was there representing him. I guess the bride wanted a somewhat real wedding with the groom present and thus they had the nuptial blessings ceremony.

Victoriano Navarro

Published by victorianonavarro (not verified) – Thu, 2012-03-01 19:56 | Permalink

Comment

It says that Cosme Felix de la Villa Bugarin and Maria de los Reyes got married in Zacatecas on August 14, 1675, got nuptial blessings in Mexico City on January 16, 1676, and this was recorded in the archives of the Church:

In Mexico City on January 16 1676, with the presence of the Doctor Garcia de Leon Castillo priest of the Sagrario of this Holy Cathedral of Mexico Church, the Bachelor Joseph de los Reyes, priest, gave the nuptial blessings of the Church in the church of the Hospital of Our Lady, to Cosme Felix de la Villa Bugarin with Maria de los Reyes, being witnesses Juan de ¿Albilsur? and Juan de ¿Dia?, present, and based on their testimony that ¿their date? in the Church of Our lady of Sacatecas, on August 14, 1675. For sure they -Cosme and María- are married, such testimony shall be in the ¿commandments? of this Archive of this Sagrario for the record at all times.
*******************
Victoriano Navarro

Comment

thank you so much! so does this mean that there is a testimony in zacatecas? and why will they be at a hospital? this almost sound like a proof of matrimony and not a new matrimony.

This is the link
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-9757-26789-75?cc=1615259&wc=…

2nd on the right,

Published by oldcar53 – Thu, 2012-03-01 13:45 | Permalink

Comment

can you provide the link to the document, it will be easier to view and enlarge the document with picture manager.

Alicia

________________________________
From: "buga1138@bears.unco.edu"
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thursday, March 1, 2012 12:15 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] wedding certificate translation help

Iam having difficulty with a document. Could anyone help me translate this document?
http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/20391 I really apreciate the help!

Indexing Again/Indexacion Otra Vez

Published by conrique –
Forums
Genealogy Research

Joseph,

Please let me know the available details for and about this Villanueva and Fresnillo indexing project.
Even though I am quite busy at this time, I want to consider working with our NR grou

Comments

Published by makas_nc – Wed, 2012-02-29 19:45 | Permalink

Comment

> -----Original Message-----
> From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org [mailto:research-
> bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of Efrain Conrique
> Sent: Wednesday, February 29, 2012 1:23 AM
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Indexing Again/Indexacion Otra Vez
>
> Joseph,
>
> Please let me know the available details for and about this Villanueva
> and Fresnillo indexing project.
> Even though I am quite busy at this time, I want to consider working with
> our NR group again.

Here are some instructions for downloading the indexing program and
installing it on your computer.

https://indexing.familysearch.org/newuser/nugetstarted.jsf

After you have it downloaded and installed make sure you sign up for a free
LDS account (NOTE: this is different than your account with Nuestros
Ranchos. Your username and pw from the NR group will not work for indexing).
Go to https://www.familysearch.org/ at the top right click on "sign in" then
on

Read full comment ➜

Two death records for the same person?

Published by gpf13 –
Forums
Genealogy Research

I have found what may be two death records for the same person. The records are somewhat difficult to read, however, the names are clear.

Comments

Published by victorianonavarro (not verified) – Tue, 2012-02-28 07:54 | Permalink

Comment

Hi George,
I think they made a mistake when transcribing the records. I understand some of these books were not written by adding each record as the service was provided, but rather by copying the information form other books or drafts. If you see the entries on images 189 and 194, Thomas de Villalpando widower of Maria de Sotelo is not the only one who appears as a duplicate entry. There are also:
Luisa Ribera Fonseca, española, casada.
Juan Felis, indio, casado.
Maria de los Santos, india, párvula.
Matiana Esquibel, india, casada.

They all appear in the same order, following the previous one, excepting one case where there is an additonal record on image 189 between Maria and Matiana. Chances of 4-5 different persons with the same names and marital status dying in the same order in the same town are pretty slim.

As for which is the real date, I think it is hard to know unless you find some other documents like a Will where they mention whether they are still alive or already passed

Read full comment ➜

Comment

Victoriano

Thank you for the information.

I received an e-mail from Luis who also looked at these records, and he noted that the pastor was absent from his duties in the parish after March 11, 1738, and then ultimately his death. Thus, business in the parish was unsettled, and this led to duplication of the events in the register.

Unless other information is found, the reasonable assumption would be that the first date is likely correct. However, I will make a note of both (with Luis's explanation) in my notes.

George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA

Help Needed - Simona De Silva Image 33 of 241

Published by Pat_Silva_Corbera –
Forums
Genealogy Research

List Members,

 

I would appreciate help in translating the side bar information on this marriage record...

Image 33 of 241 ...

Comments

Published by Bill_Figueroa – Fri, 2012-02-24 13:45 | Permalink

Comment

Pat,

Macario de Espitia and Simona de Silva were married 22 April 1680 in
Aguascalientes. The marginal note says they were veiled (se velaron) almost
two years later 25 Jan 1682. Macario de Espitia was buried in
Aguascalientes 1 May 1732. I have identified six children for this couple:
Isabel, Michaela, Andrés, Jacinto, Salvador and María Teresa de Espitia.
Where can I find the baptismal record of Simona de Silva?

BILL FIGUEROA

Comment

Bill,

 

Thank you...what is to be "vailed" ? Would that "vailing ceremony," have a vailing/marriage record online?  This term is unfamiliar to me.

 

I have located the following children hoping that their AP and AM would be mentioned, but they were not...

 

I have Michaela, Ysabel, Andres and Salvador.  I will search for Jacinto and Maria Teresa. that you mentioned.

 

Simona's burial record date is 17 Aug 1719...I didn't have Macario's burial date, I'll look that up.

 

To date I have not located birth/bapt records for either Macario or Simona.

 

I learned of their names from their daughter Ysabel's bapt record.  Ysabel is my husband's 5th greatgrandmother who is married to Diego de Aguayo/Aguallo (m.12 Jan 1699 Nochistlan).

 

Are you linked to this family?

 

Thank you,

Pat Silva Corbera 

 
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Figueroa"
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Friday, February 24, 2012 12:38:05 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros

Read full comment ➜

Comment

Pat,

I hope you don't me answering for Bill. Here are a few links to get you
acquainted with the ceremony.

http://hispanic-ancestors.blogspot.com/2012/02/veiling-ceremony.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_OicTTrozME

http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/16074

http://buscon.rae.es/draeI/SrvltConsulta?TIPO_BUS=3&LEMA=velar

Bill and Pat,

I also descend from Espitia/Aspitia. I finally understand why my ancestors
used so many surnames. Nicolás Macias Espitia and Ana Muñoz had children in
Lagos de Moreno between 1645 and 1664. Sometimes they used the surname
Torres. After looking at records in Aguascalientes I see Hernando de Torres
Espitia married Juana Vásquez Macias alias Juana Vasquez de Retamosa 11 Jan
1615 in Aguascalientes film 299421. This makes me think that my ancestor
was their son Nicolás Torres Vásquez baptized 2 May 1622 film 299421. Is
Macario de Espitia related to Hernando de Torres Espitia?

Armando

On Fri, Feb 24, 2012 at 3:12 PM, Pat Corbera wrote:

>
>
> Bill

Read full comment ➜

Comment

Hi Armando,

 

 I always value your input, your comments are always welcomed.

 

As for Macario de Espitia being related to Hernando de Torres Espitia it's possible, but we need to located documents that reference/associate them with the various name combinations found in each family.

 

Tomorrow I'm going to try and locate the marriages of Macario and Simona's offspring...  I realize that even if I find their grandchildren, the reference, if any,  to  AP and/or AM will simply refer to Macario and Simona... it's the spouse connections that may lead to a different branch of Espitias/Munoz/Macias/Torres etc.families...possibly linking Macario and Hernando's families. I'll also check the time line...

 

Thank you for the links to the very informative information about "veiling. "  Very interesting.

 

Wonder why Macario and Simona's "veiling," took place about 2 years after their 1680 marriage...

 

If the church didn't recognize a marriage being "completed until the

Read full comment ➜

Comment

Thanks Armando for the links, they are all very informative, I never knew the true meaning of velados.

Alicia

________________________________
From: Armando
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Friday, February 24, 2012 3:18 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Help Needed - Simona De Silva Image 33 of 241

Pat,

I hope you don't me answering for Bill. Here are a few links to get you
acquainted with the ceremony.

http://hispanic-ancestors.blogspot.com/2012/02/veiling-ceremony.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_OicTTrozME

http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/16074

http://buscon.rae.es/draeI/SrvltConsulta?TIPO_BUS=3&LEMA=velar

Bill and Pat,

I also descend from Espitia/Aspitia. I finally understand why my ancestors
used so many surnames. Nicolás Macias Espitia and Ana Muñoz had children in
Lagos de Moreno between 1645 and 1664. Sometimes they used the surname
Torres. After looking at records in Aguascalientes I see Hernando de Torres
Espitia married Juana Vásquez Macias

Read full comment ➜

Comment

Pat and Armando,

I think the links provided by Armando explain the veiling ceremony quite accurately. Most veilings in Aguascalientes were performed during the wedding ceremony (casados y velados) although in some instances the veiling ceremony was performed later (casados y no velados). As the marriage blessing was considered a celebration, it was not allowed during Advent and Lent (that are considered penance periods). Therefore, if the marriage was celebrated during these periods, a separate veiling ceremony (velación) was required to complete the marriage sacrament. That explains why sometimes marriage and veiling happened during the same day and sometimes on different dates. Most often the priest recorded the wedding and veiling ceremonies in the same book (Libro de Matrimonios) either as an annotation next to the wedding or as a separate record. I have not found any veilings recorded in separate parish books in Aguascalientes.

Macario de Espitia was baptized 21 Jan 1659 in

Read full comment ➜

Comment

Bill,

 

Your posting left me speechless...  I have looked for Macario's birth/baptism info but didn't find anything and here you not only supply that information but much more.

 

Thank you so much for all this added information.

 

 I certainly enjoyed the links that Armanco provided for explaining the veiling ceremony.  I now will pay more attention when viewing marriage records looking for a reference to "casados y velados," or casados y no velados).

 

Do you think that one of the names you mentioned for Juana Gonzalez being Juana de la Cerda may be a reference to her association with the de la Cerda nobles that descend from Fernando de la Cerda, Infante d'Castile and his wife Branca de Franca?

 

Last evening I viewed the baptism record for Nicolas Torres Vasques (bapt 02 May 1622 Sagrario, Aguascalientes Image 18 of 324) and found it interesting that only a Godmother (Madinha) a Luisa de Avila (widow) was mentioned.  I also thought that the translation of Hernando

Read full comment ➜

Comment

Bill and Armando,

 

Bill, In your previous posting you mentioned the following...

 

"Macario de Espitia was baptized 21 Jan 1659 in Aguascalientes [ Film 0299421 Baptisms 1616-1660 Aguascalientes ] and buried 1 May 1732 [ Film 299856 Defunciones 1620-1752 Aguascalientes ]. He was the son of Bartolome de Espitia and Juana Gonzalez (aka Juana de la Cerda, Juana de Espinosa, Juana Lopez de Elizalde, Juana Gonzalez Lisardi). The parents of Bartolome de Espitia were Francisco de Espitia and Francisca de Quiroga."

 

Bill, did you actually locate and view Macario's  bapt record ? 

 

I accessed the Aqauscalientes films, No Baptisms records for 1611 - 1660, but one for 1616 - 1662...so I viewed that one, it didn't have a film number so I couldn't verify it with the film # you provided...

 

Here's my findings...

 

 

1.  I couldn't locate a bapt record for Macario for 21 Jan 1659...very difficult for me to read....

 

2.  I did locate something rather interesting last

Read full comment ➜

Comment

Pat,

I've looked at what you have questions about.

1. This is the same as number four. The person that input the record wrote
it incorrectly because the priest had too much ink so it is hard to read
the surname. It does not say Gijondes. The L is wrote in the style of the
era and it is Lizarde. It states the parents are Bme de Aspitia (Espitia) y
Juana Lizarde (Elizalde) Padrinos Sebastian de Espinosa y Ana Garcia
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-11824-51426-17?cc=1410092&…

2. This record states that Isabel de Aspitia is the daughter of Francisco
de Aspitia and Francisca de Quiroga.

Armando

On Sat, Feb 25, 2012 at 5:32 PM, Pat Corbera wrote:

>
>
>
>
> Bill and Armando,
>
>
> Bill, In your previous posting you mentioned the following...
>
> "Macario de Espitia was baptized 21 Jan 1659 in Aguascalientes [ Film
> 0299421 Baptisms 1616-1660 Aguascalientes ] and buried 1 May 1732 [ Film
> 299856 Defunciones 1620-1752 Aguascalientes ]. He was the son of Bartolome

Read full comment ➜

Comment

Armando,
 
Thank you.
 
I was getting confused by seeing marriage and baptism records on the listing for Bautismos 1616 - 1662  No mention of marriages being included in this grouping of records.
 
Ranchos Members...
Note: If you're research Aguascalientes  Batch # M604761 & Batch # C604761 Film # 299421 these records can be found at Mexico - Catholic Church Records --Sagrario -- Aguascalientes  Bautismos 1616 - 1662.
 
Pat Silva Corbera
Tracy, CA

----- Original Message -----

From: "Armando"
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Saturday, February 25, 2012 6:35:38 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Help Needed - Simona De Silva Image 33 of 241 / Macario de Espitia

Pat,

I've looked at what you have questions about.

1. This is the same as number four. The person that input the record wrote
it incorrectly because the priest had too much ink so it is hard to read
the surname. It does not say Gijondes. The L is wrote in the style of the
era and it is Lizarde. It

Read full comment ➜

Comment

Pat,

I have been researching my lines in Aguascalientes for about ten years and have been through most microfilms and online records for the 16th and 17th centuries. My database includes more than 15,000 individuals, not all of them are my ancestors but most of them linked by family ties.

The entry for the baptism of Macario de Espitia can be found in the 1st. book of Baptisms and Marriages of Aguascalientes [ Bautismos y Matrimonios, 1616-1662. Parroquia de la Asunción de Aguascalientes. Image 215 of 324 ] The record reads as follows:

Al margen: "Macario Spañol"

"En veinte y uno de enero año de mil y seiscientos y sinqta
y nueve Baptise y puse los SStos. olios a Macario hijo de Bme. de
Espitia y Juana Lisardi* fueron sus padrinos Sebastian
de Spinosa y Ana Garcia y lo firme *Lisardi
[firma] Bme. de Soto
y Carvajal"
The

Read full comment ➜

Comment

Pat,

I have not traced Juana Gonzalez (aka Juana de la Cerda) lineage to determine whether or not she is a descendant of the De la Cerda nobles that descend from Fernando de la Cerda, Infante d'Castile, and his wife Branca de Francia. I have found the compounded surname López de la Cerda in early records of Aguascalientes, San Luis Potosí and Jalisco. The earliest in my database is Agustín López de la Cerda, who married Lucía Rodríguez de Victoria 13 Nov 1635 in San Luis Potosí. His son Agustín López de la Cerda (el mozo) married María de Isla y Sotomayor 3 June 1667 in Aguascalientes. His daughter Josepha López de la Cerda married Isidro Martín de Sotomayor, probably in Aguascalientes, and Simona López de la Cerda married Nicolás Martín de Sotomayor in Teocaltiche. Simona and Nicolás lived in Sierra de Pinos and had children in Aguascalientes. So far I have not tried to link Juana de la Cerda to these families, but I feel that she was probably related.

My ancestor Don Luis de

Read full comment ➜

Comment

Hello Bill
I had josefa ramirez Rodriguez Lopez de la cerda
Married to jose isidro martin de sotomayor Islas I did have in my notes that her mother has Rodriguez as a surname. I do not recall or have in my notes why I also listed Ramírez as a surname. Did josefa and her siblings marry Martinez de sotomayor isla siblings.
Thanks Rick a Ricci

Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 26, 2012, at 6:35 PM, "Bill Figueroa" wrote:

> Pat,
>
> I have not traced Juana Gonzalez (aka Juana de la Cerda) lineage to determine whether or not she is a descendant of the De la Cerda nobles that descend from Fernando de la Cerda, Infante d'Castile, and his wife Branca de Francia. I have found the compounded surname López de la Cerda in early records of Aguascalientes, San Luis Potosí and Jalisco. The earliest in my database is Agustín López de la Cerda, who married Lucía Rodríguez de Victoria 13 Nov 1635 in San Luis Potosí. His son Agustín López de la Cerda (el mozo) married María de Isla y Sotomayor 3

Read full comment ➜

Comment

Hi Rick,

The parents of Josefa López de la Cerda were Agustín López de la Cerda and Lucía Rodríguez de Victoria, married 13 Nov 1635 in San Luis Potosí, SLP. Her paternal grandparents (abuelos paternos) were Francisco López and Francisca de los Angeles, and her maternal grandparents (abuelos maternos) Antonio Rodríguez and Catalina de Victoria, married 1 Jun 1601 in Pátzcuaro, Michoacán. [Source: Genealogía de Nochistlán Antiguo Reino de la Nueva Galicia en el Siglo XVII según sus Archivos Parroquiales, by José Luis Vázquez Rodríguez de Frías]

Josefa López de la Cerda married Isidro Martín de Sotomayor, her brother Agustín López de la Cerda (el mozo) married María de Isla y Sotomayor, and her sister Simona López de la Cerda married Nicolás Martín de Sotomayor. Isidro, María and Nicolás were brothers and sisters. Both Isidro and Nicolás used their father's surname "Martín de Sotomayor" while their sister María preferred "de Isla y Sotomayor".

The answer to your question is YES

Read full comment ➜

Comment

Thank you Bill
I looked up the info that you provided in Jose Luis s book. It felt great to add a couple more generations to my tree.
Thanks again. Rick A Ricci.

Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 27, 2012, at 9:01 AM, "Bill Figueroa" wrote:

> Hi Rick,
>
> The parents of Josefa López de la Cerda were Agustín López de la Cerda and Lucía Rodríguez de Victoria, married 13 Nov 1635 in San Luis Potosí, SLP. Her paternal grandparents (abuelos paternos) were Francisco López and Francisca de los Angeles, and her maternal grandparents (abuelos maternos) Antonio Rodríguez and Catalina de Victoria, married 1 Jun 1601 in Pátzcuaro, Michoacán. [Source: Genealogía de Nochistlán Antiguo Reino de la Nueva Galicia en el Siglo XVII según sus Archivos Parroquiales, by José Luis Vázquez Rodríguez de Frías]
>
> Josefa López de la Cerda married Isidro Martín de Sotomayor, her brother Agustín López de la Cerda (el mozo) married María de Isla y Sotomayor, and her sister Simona López de la Cerda married

Read full comment ➜

Comment

Hi Bill,

Now that the Lopez de la Cerda have been brought into this conversation I
wanted to ask if you or anyone in the NR forum has any information on the
grandparents of Phelipe Lopez De La Serda Marin , who married Juan Perez de
Frias Flores on May 29 1749 (vecinos de Rio Chico, Teocaltiche). I have
Phelipe's parents listed as Matheo Lopez de la Serda and Jacinta Marin.
Does anyone have information on Matheo and Jacinta's lineage?

Thanks and I look forward to your response.

Regards,
Juan Aguayo

On Sun, Feb 26, 2012 at 8:35 PM, Bill Figueroa wrote:

> Pat,
>
> I have not traced Juana Gonzalez (aka Juana de la Cerda) lineage to
> determine whether or not she is a descendant of the De la Cerda nobles that
> descend from Fernando de la Cerda, Infante d'Castile, and his wife Branca
> de Francia. I have found the compounded surname López de la Cerda in early
> records of Aguascalientes, San Luis Potosí and Jalisco. The earliest in my
> database is Agustín López de la Cerda, who

Read full comment ➜

Comment

There is a Maria Magdalena Lozano Martinez aka maria martinez lozano married to a Miguel Lopez de la cerda that fits the timeframe in Aguascalientes.
R A Ricci

Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 27, 2012, at 8:57 AM, Juan Aguayo wrote:

> Hi Bill,
>
> Now that the Lopez de la Cerda have been brought into this conversation I
> wanted to ask if you or anyone in the NR forum has any information on the
> grandparents of Phelipe Lopez De La Serda Marin , who married Juan Perez de
> Frias Flores on May 29 1749 (vecinos de Rio Chico, Teocaltiche). I have
> Phelipe's parents listed as Matheo Lopez de la Serda and Jacinta Marin.
> Does anyone have information on Matheo and Jacinta's lineage?
>
> Thanks and I look forward to your response.
>
> Regards,
> Juan Aguayo
>
> On Sun, Feb 26, 2012 at 8:35 PM, Bill Figueroa wrote:
>
>> Pat,
>>
>> I have not traced Juana Gonzalez (aka Juana de la Cerda) lineage to
>> determine whether or not she is a descendant of the De la Cerda nobles that
>>

Read full comment ➜

Comment

Bill,

 

Thank you so much for sharing all this wonderful information with me.

 

As I have stated before researching my husband's Mexican ancestry has been a challenge, but I am determined to give it my full attention as I have done with researching my own Portuguese roots.

 

Thank you for the complete translation of the various documents in this Simona De Silva exchange.

 

When trying to locate the baptismal record of Macario de Espitia I became lost when viewing what I thought were Baptism records when so many of the records were actually marriages.

 

Armando did locate the record link and from there I was able to view the document.

 

I have printed out the complete translation that you have provided and will use it as a training tool. 

 

Off Topic - My maternal Portuguese line links directly with a Dom Raimundo Garcia Portocarreiro, he is my 24th GGF born about 1090... Other surnames that you mentioned Da Valos (of France) and Saavedra also appear in my

Read full comment ➜

Proof of marriage at Baptisms--Padres no conocidos-- Research Digest, Vol 73, Issue 24

Published by mimasep1959 –
Forums
Genealogy Research

5.

Comments

Published by Pat_Silva_Corbera – Fri, 2012-02-24 19:00 | Permalink

Comment

Hi Irma,

 

It was nice meeting you too...wish that we had more time to share research stories.

 

Your story about marriages and people in the various villages, brought smiles to my face, for I recall my parents relating pretty much the same stories about their family and friends in Madeira, Portugal and even here in the USA.

 

Though my mom was only 5 when she came to the USA she love talking about the "ladies," that gossiped and about the ones that worked for the "priests."  They knew everything that was going on... of course I'm sure these stories she related to me were stories that she had heard from her mother,.

 

I'm finding that many of the customs that I'm learning about with Tino's heritage are very similar to my Portuguese roots.

 

My own maternal great-grandfather was "filho dos pais incognito."

 

In one of Tino's lines, one child was "hija natural," the second child "hijo legitimo," and the third child again was "hijo natural,"  all the other children

Read full comment ➜

Comment

Hello Pat and Irma

My experience is more recent. We have 3 children born in Jalisco during the 1980's. When we went to register them we had to first go to the Civil Registry and we did have to show proof of marriage with our marriage certificate in hand or our children would be registered as "Ilegitimo" in a separate book. We were told that we had 5 years from birth to register the baby; but with the registration you also get the coupon book that is required to vaccinate the baby.

Once you have that certificate you can take it to the church, also along with your marriage certificate, and register for a baptism.

You mentioned the problems your father had--my husband had the same issue when they were applying for immigration. My husband is a twin--it seems they entered his brother in the church records, but not my husband; even though they were baptised at the same time! Until recently it seems that a lot of people didn't bother with the Civil Record because they believed--"The

Read full comment ➜

Comment

Hi Deedra,

 

Thank you for sharing your interesting experiences. 

 

I would have thought that the same practice would have been in use during earlier times... some proof in hand by the parents to show they were married in order for their children be registered as "legitima." 

 

My husband's parents and his grandparents on both side are all now deceased... it's questions like these that I wish I had thought of when they were still alive.

 

This should be a lesson learned to ask questions now, while you may still have access to living parents, grandparents and older relatives.

 

We are at the mercy that the various documents now available for viewing are correct, but may often contain errors.

 

Thank you

Pat Silva Corbera

Tracy CA

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 
----- Original Message -----
From: zapvive1@msn.com
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Saturday, February 25, 2012 12:22:48 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Proof of Marriage

Read full comment ➜

Questions on church records

Published by CarolGalvan –
Forums
Genealogy Research

Hello Everyone! I have a couple of questions. First, is it possible for babies not to be baptised? I'm looking everywhere for my 4x & 5x grandfathers, with approxmiate dates of 1787 and 1807.

Comments

Published by victorianonavarro (not verified) – Fri, 2012-02-24 11:03 | Permalink

Comment

I have seen civil and religious records form Oaxaca in the late 1800's in which I believe the parents were not married and the children were registered as from "padres no conocidos" (although the child was actually brought by the father), or it has only the name of the mother and the father appears as "no conocido" even though apparently their parents actually raised them. I figured this out when for one of the siblings I found her baptism with "padres no conocidos", yet in her civil birth and later in her marriage she registered with both parents. I think in some cities they preferred to list the parents as "no conocidos" rather than accepting they were not married. This makes it very difficult to search further back on those lines.

Victoriano Navarro

Comment

Victoriano,

 

Do you know if married couples were given a duplicate copy of their marriage record?

 

Then when baptizing their children was it required to show proof of their marriage, in order for the child to be registered as "hijo legitima" ?

 

Pat Silva Corbera

Tracy CA

 

 

 
----- Original Message -----
From: mnavarrovillalobos@yahoo.com.mx
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Friday, February 24, 2012 10:03:51 AM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] "padres no conocidos"

I have seen civil and religious records form Oaxaca in the late 1800's in which I believe the parents were not married and the children were registered as from "padres no conocidos" (although the child was actually brought by the father), or it has only the name of the mother and the father appears as "no conocido" even though apparently their parents actually raised them. I figured this out when for one of the siblings I found her baptism with "padres no conocidos", yet in her civil

Read full comment ➜

Comment

Hi Pat,
I don't know if couples were given a copy of their wedding certificate nor if they had to show it when baptizing a child. I have never seen a baptism record where they mention such proof was shown.

Hi Paul,
Indeed, by searching for siblings you may find missing information in other records, like names of grandparents or the "casta" of the parents. I've found several connections this way.

Best regards,

Victoriano Navarro

Comment

You point out the importance of siblings in our family research. Importantly, too, is maternal research. Both can help us get beyond "walls".

Paul J. Gomez

Sent from my iPhone
paul.gomez@verizon.net

On Feb 24, 2012, at 10:03 AM, mnavarrovillalobos@yahoo.com.mx wrote:

> I have seen civil and religious records form Oaxaca in the late 1800's in which I believe the parents were not married and the children were registered as from "padres no conocidos" (although the child was actually brought by the father), or it has only the name of the mother and the father appears as "no conocido" even though apparently their parents actually raised them. I figured this out when for one of the siblings I found her baptism with "padres no conocidos", yet in her civil birth and later in her marriage she registered with both parents. I think in some cities they preferred to list the parents as "no conocidos" rather than accepting they were not married. This makes it very difficult to search further

Read full comment ➜

Published by Joseph_de_Leon – Thu, 2012-02-23 16:27 | Permalink

Comment

Yes, it's possible. Very early death or being non-Catholic (unlikely in early Mexico. However, If they died at childbirth, you wouldn't have grandfathers. More than likely they were baptised later in life or elswhere from their birth place. My GGPs were married in the Catholic Church in 1866 in Huejucar, Mexico. Even though their parents and older and younger siblings were baptised there, I've never been able to find my GGPs baptism record. I even tried all the other Catholic Church records within a 100-mile radius. I suspect that perhaps those specific birth years the Church Records were lost oe destroyed.

Jose Carlos de Leon

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