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Jose Felis Neris se caso el 29 de julio 1797 film 0279299 batch M603228 Jalos.. con Maria Francisca Ramirez Lety Reynoso no he conseguido mas datos..

> To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: rcordovamba@aol.com
> Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 02:16:38 -0700
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Need help - Solicito ayuda - Manuel Gama (Estrada)
>
> My family history center is closed for the summer. I wonder if anyone who is doing research in the area of Jalostotitlan in 1822 could help me.
>
> I am looking for a marriage record of
> Manuel Gama (Estrada) who married Felipa Neris (Ramires) on Feb 9, 1822 in Jalostotitlan, Jalisco. I would like a copy of the record.
>
> His parents were Manuel Gama (Estrada) and Felipa Espinoza and her parents were Jose Felis Neris and Maria Francisca Ramires who were married in Jalostotitlan on July 29, 1797.
>
> ===========
>
>
> I am particularly interested in finding out about the name Estrada. Some of Manuel Gama and Felipa Neris descendents used

Hi Rosie, I have worked extensive on Jalos pre 1775, so I may not be much of help until then. I usually dont keep films permanently but I did on some Michoacan films, just in case since its a new area for me, you can miss anything, first starting out. Through research in Jalos, I can say that the Spanish estrada is the family de Estrada y Bocanegra, which is also found throughout the region and Aguascalientes. I think I descend from them about 3 or 4 times. Have you tried, ordering through mail? you order a copy of record, you desire and they will mail it to you for abt $2.00. Hopefully my advice at least helps you. -Daniel Camino

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Emily, I have this record but have not entered it into my files yet:

baptism
6 April 1820 in Jerez
Maria
Ysidora Espanola born in Monticello 2 days old 11pm
parents:
Jose Hernandes and Maria Josefa Rodarte
pat
grn: Salvador Hernandes and Maria Cleta Sandoval
mat
grn: Marcos Rodarte and Maria Ygnacia Saucedo
pad:
Rafael Munos and Maria Francisca Rincon
I do have for parents of Marcos Rodarte: Lorenso Rodarte and Maria Ygnacia Garcia.  I have for parents of Maria Ygnacia Salcedo: Francisco Salcedo and Ysabel Acuna, I do have them in my files on Rootsweb.com
hope it helps, Linda in B.C.

--- On Sat, 8/8/09, Emilie Garcia wrote:

From: Emilie Garcia
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] To Christopher Barrios - Re Rincon Family
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Saturday, August 8, 2009, 1:27 PM

Christopher,

I read your post of August 5, where you introduced yourself and listed among your ancestors the Rincon family from Zacatecas.

I am trying to trace a Rincon family line

I have a Maria Rincon Gallardo somwhere in 1730s Aguascalientes, but havent been able to continue on it. I know its the same family as the Marques de Guadalupe Gallardo. Pron his niece not daughter. -Daniel

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Hola Jorge Luis, yo tambien tengo una Macias-Ortega de Aguascalientes

Daniel Mendez Camino

Ampelia Camino Soto

Carolina Garcia Camino Soto

Rafael Garcia Ruiz de Velasco

Jose Refugio Garcia Frausto

Librada Frausto Ruiz de Velasco

Theodoro Frausto

Aniceto Frausto

Pablo Frausto (descendo de Pablo 2 veces)

Jose Miguel Antonio Frausto y Maria Micaela Santos de Macias y Ortega (aparece unas veces a Macias y otras como Ortega)

(de Antonio Frausto vengo 3 veces)

esta ultima pareja se encuentran en los medios de 1700s.

El hijo mas mayor que he encontrado es Jose Reducencindo Frausto baustizado 15 mar 1761 en Aguascalientes. Piensa que esta Macias Ortega es pariente suyo?

Me puedes dar mas informacion sobre esta familia? Macias Ortega, sabe sobre los Frausto? -Daniel Camino

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YEs, he is in the roster of Guzman, do you have a copy of that? If its possible, I would ask if you could send me a copy.
Magdalena de Alvarado was a niece of Pedro de Alvarado, conqueror of Guatemala and Governor. Juan and Magdalena married in Spain...since they crossed the ocean together, I believe...thats when his brother Diego Camino succeeded Pedro de Alvarado as Governor of Guatemala. The couple returned to NEw Spain, and first stopped in DF where he reported his regimiento del rey. After the conquest with Cortes he had to go to Valladolid to recieve his coat of Arms from Carlos V. I have found about 4 crossings my ancestor did. One for his wife, one for the King, and his kids, I guess. -Daniel

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Salvador, et al.

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My experience is that these names are often the same, with Martin. being used as the abbreviation of Martines. I've found dozens of examples of this name shift in my own genealogy. You just can't tell. Here's just one example, for Connie Dominguez, that shows MARTINES and MARTIN being used interchangeably.

Juan Jose MARTINEZ SOTOMAIOR and wife Juana ROMO DE VIVAR had at least two children: Juana Cayetana and Ygnacio Cayetano (esposa Rosa LANDEROS)

BAPTISM: Images, Pilot Site
Ags, Sagrario, Hac. Cieneguilla, Bautismos 1716-1734, Image 20
30 Aug 1717
Jna. Caietana, a quien echo el agua Andres GOMES, persona capaz
hija lexitima de Ju. MARTIN De SOTO MAIOR y Ju.a. ROMO DE VIVAR, su esposa

DEATH: #299861, Pilot Site
Burial 1 Apr 1777, Aguascalientes
Ygnacio Cayetano MARTINEZ DE SOTOMAYOR
born Agostadero
hijo de Juan MARTINEZ DE SOTOMAYOR y Juana ROMO DE VIVAR
Casado con Rosa LANDEROS.

Their son's baptism:
BAPTISM: #299530, Images, Pilot Site
Ags, Sagrario, Hac. Cieneguilla, Bau

Daniel,
I've been through my Martin/Martinez de Sotomayor families and I don't have a clear answer yet. What appears to me is that the Martinez came from the Martin (which is usually the case), because I've got Martin surnames that go back further than the Martinez groups. This also holds if you look through the general surname searches on the IGI at FamiySearch. However, I can't seem to pinpoint the change.

My last ancestor of the Martinez group so far is Juan Jose Martinez de Sotomayor, born c. 1696 in Juiquinaque, Aguas. and married to Juana Romo de Vivar (dau. of Francisco Romo & Micaela Villalobos) c. 1716. However, I have an additional note in my files that says he was also listed as Juan Marin Soto-Marin on his daughter Juana Caietana's baptismal. I believe he is listed as Juan Marinez de Sotomayor on his other children's baptismals, as there are no notes I made on their entries.

On the Martin de Sotomayor side, my last ancestor is Juan Ignacio Martin de Sotomayor married to

Daniel,

I think I have some older info on these families, but I can't remember exactly what I found. I will respond with more info after searching at home.

Connie Dominguez
El Paso, TX

---- mendezdelcamino@live.com wrote:

=============
Hi All, does anyone know if these two families are one in the same? I ve seen occasions when both names are used and others not. Martínez de Sotomayor and Martín de Sotomayor both tend to be in upper Los Altos and Aguascalientes. Does anyone know the patriarch of this (these) families. I have many of them in early 1600s but not sure if they are all siblings. -Daniel

Lo único que tengo es lo que te dicen por ahí, si es José Fernando Gutiérrez de Mendoza (13 de junio de 1718 - 17 de agosto de 1792), hijo de Juan de Dios Gutiérrez de Mendoza y Petronila Delgadillo. Casó el 10 de junio de 1743 con María Andrea Macías Valadez (16 de marzo de 1727 - 15 de octubre de 1786), hija de José Segundo Macías Valadez y Petrona Javiera Muñoz de la Barba.

También tengo el matrimonio formado por José Antonio Gutiérrez y María de los Dolores Muñoz de la Barba, pero al igual que tu no tengo quienes son sus padres.

Saludos.
Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.

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Comparte tus recuerdos en línea con quien tú desees.
http://www.microsoft.com/mexico/windows/windowslive/products/photos-sha…

Jose Jaime...

Jose Gutierrez de Mendoza casado con ( M: 10 jun 1743) Andrea Macias Valadez death(10 jun 1786)hija de Jose segundo Macias Valdez y Petrona Xaviera Muñoz de la Barba y Jose Gutierrez de Juan de dios Gutierrez de mendoza y Petronila Delgadillo batch 8679106 sheet 27 souce call 1396254 film, si lo revisas seguramente te va a servir.. Lety Reynoso

igual te sirve talvez sea Jose Fernando...

>> Compañeros de foro ya tengo tiempo investigando el arbol familiar en todas las ramas de mis ancestros, les pido un favor si alguien sabe de los siguientes matrimonios que son parte de mis ancestros y no he podido localizar son los siguientes
>
> Jose gonzalez y Maria Macias san juan
>
>
> Fernando Gutierrez y Andrea Macias aprox 1760 jalos
>
> Carlos de la Torre y Rosa Maria Jimenez aprox 1755 jalos
>
> Antonio Gutierrez y Dolores Barba aprox 1760 jalos

Daniel, I am a descendant of Petronila's sister, Bernardina. Here's the info I have:

Diego and Petronila were married in Nochistlan on 06 Feb 1668. They had the following children:
[all dates not verified, but are as listed on Familysearch.org]
1) Mariana, married Francisco Florez on 01 FEB 1674, in Nochis.
2) Agustin, baptized on 02 SEP 1674, in Nochis.
3) Bernardino, baptized on 25 JUL 1659, in Nochis.
4) Cristobal, baptized on 27 OCT 1677, in Nochis.
5) Juan, baptized on 06 JAN 1668, in Nochis.

PETRONILA was the daughter of Bernardino (Gonzalez) de Ysla and Mariana (Moscoso y) Sandoval, who were married in Nochistlan on 21 Apr 1631. I have not found record of Petronila's baptism.

Petrona pero tiene como padres a Juan Gonsales de Islas y Juana de Rivera y Diego se casaron en aguasclientes, el 25 mayo de 1687, y esta informacion la puedes confirmar en los libros en linea del programa piloto de familysearch, ademas tuvo otro matrimonio, con Pedro Rodriguez
Pero encontre a otra Petronila y a otro diego , pero los papas de Petronila son Benito de isla y Juana Navarro y de Diego a Hernando de Frias y nada mas Delgadillo
espero sirva

SALVADOR CABRAL VALDES

In some baptismal records that I have seen, "de la Reyes" was attached to a given name of a child born on or around the time of Feast of the Three Kings (Jan 6), and "de la Trinidad" given to a child born around the time of the feast of the Holy Trinity (I can't recall the date). The COMPLETE GIVEN NAME would be "given name + feast day name", followed by a surname. Has anyone else noticed this naming pattern?

Natalie

No nada mas en la información de los registros matrimoniales , sino también en las actas de nacimiento, bautizo de todo México de los años 1600 y 1700,en la pareja de matrimonios como tu dices se le dan el nombre de José Antonio, y María teresa , sin apellidos de sus padres.
En caso que tu marcas de, hijo legítimo de Juan Marcos y María de Silva," significa también quela mujer no es indígena o mulata, pero el maridos si.

en el caso de, Juana de la Cruz o María de la Cruz, en muchas ocasiones se esta tomando como apellido.
En ese periodo de tiempo como lo mencionas, también se les dan los apellidos de los patrones donde trabajan los indios o mulatos que eran esclavos, y las reglas por lo general eran de la iglesia o de los sacerdotes que no eran mexicanos, o que estudiaron en España.
En algunos escritos encontré personas con su apellido totalmente indígena, como ACOATLE, Pedro (de), AHUC, Diego, CUYAMEL, Pedro, CUXO, Pedro,

También esta el caso que los hombres se les da el

Hi there George ,

My name is Welester G. Alvarado , maybe I can shed a little light here on the de la Cruz part .

A friend of mine Arq. Jose Francisco Garza Carrillo ( author of Matrimonios en la Catedral de Monterrey, Nuevo Leon , Mexico, 1667-1781 ) told me that since the indians didn´t have last names the priest would put the sign of the cross when the child was baptized .

So, their names became Jose or Maria or whatever first name they had and the cross would be translated as ¨de la Cruz ( of the church , of G-D , of the cross ) .

Hope this helps ,

Welester

> There are numerous cases where the name is Juana de la Cruz or Maria de la Cruz. Is "de la Cruz" considered a family name or part of the first name? There also also other names such as de los Reyes, de la Trinidad, and so on.
>
> I realize that Spanish and Mexican naming practices are complex, and the "rules" are often not followed, but can anyone shed some light on the practices in this

George,

When you get back to the early 1600 and 1700's you will find that the criollos or espanoles were marrying the indigenous population who did not have surnames, thus the use of first names only.

By the way, will you be attending the Nueva Galicia Genealogical meeting in Elk Grove tomorrow? if you are, I will see you there.

Alicia,
San Jose, Calif

________________________________
From: "gpf13@aol.com"
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Friday, July 24, 2009 11:02:39 AM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Surnames in the 1600s and early 1700

I have recently been looking at a lot of the matrimonial information records for Aguascalientes in the 1600s and early 1700, and I have noticed that for many people, especially for indios and mulatos, the couple's names are given as first names only, for example "Juan Diego" and "Maria Magdalena" with no family names for them or their parents. In other records, the data might be something like "Juan Diego hijo legitimo de Marcos

Wow, thanks this explains everything. The fact that Munoz de Nava, the surname was created. When Francisco Lopez de Nava married Maria Sanchez aka Maria Munoz de Huerta. The fact Maria Sanchez used her grandmothers name Maria Sanchez, So they arrived in Honduras? maybe Pedro II traveled to New Spain by himself? -Daniel

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Bernardino Verástique in Michoacán and Eden- Vasco de Quiroga and the Evangelization of Western Mexico discusses slavery at pp. 112-118 in the context of Quiroga's utopian plans.

He says that intitially the Catholic sovereigns intitially banned enslavement of the "Amerindians" in the Carribean phases, but that this was replaced by the ecomienda system.

Quiroga wrote treatises and arguments in response to the pro-slavery
argument. The pro-slavery argument was that the Indios were "rescued" by the Spanish, when they were converted, and enslavement was a legal way to repay the
implied ransom.

Claudia Reynoso