TEST SITE - DO NOT USE - Development only

Efrain,

I'm interested in what you have on Francisco Gutierrez Rubio (1550 - ?), son
of Diego Gonzales de Hermosillo and Ana Gonzales Florida ....

I had thought that Francisco Gutierrez Rubio was married to Ana Gonzales
Florida - and that he was the son of Diego Gonzales de Hermosillo and Maria
Rubio ..... This was based solely on family search batch #F868025 Sheet:
047

I haven't had a chance to verify this information and so I'm curious as to
what you have and what the source is.

-Angelina-

Hello everyone,

I completely agree with Corrine. Our research is never completely done and if we wait to verify every single lead before we post our information on this site then where would we be? I personally prefer to see this work in progress which could perhaps connect me to someone that is persuing the same line, than wait indefintely for a more complete works. Yes, there will be errors, but it is also an opportunity to fix those errors and refine our work.

-Angelina-

hello Corrine,

I recently found out that my great grand mother was not Gonzalez-Guerra but
González Guerra, their grand parents were Epifanio Gonzales and Maria
Antonia Guerra, Epifanio came from Lagos (as it says in the marriage record
of their son Salvador González Guerra nov 9th, 1870), that´s all information
I got in this branch.

I don´t remember exactly what microfilm do you have, but I saw that many
people on this site have ancesters from Lagos de Moreno, I thought perhaps
some one can help me please!.

Thanks in advance.

Patty Haro

Acabo de enterarme que mi bisabuela no era González-Guerra sino González
Guerra, sus abuelos eran Epifanio Gonzales y Maria Antonia Guerra,
Epifanio venia de Lagos (como dice en la partida matrimonial de su hijo
Salvador González Guerra del 9 de noviembre de 1870), esa es toda la
información que tengo de esta rama.

No recuerdo que microfilm tienes, pero he visto que muchas personas tienen
ancestros originarios de Lagos de Moreno Jalisco, a lo

Hi Corrine:

I am "Gonzalez" which evolved from "Gonzalez de Hermosillo" from the
Jalostotitlán, Jalisco area. You can contact me directly at
1gnzlz@verizon.net

Thank you.

John Gonzalez.
Wildomar, CA.

> Corrine Ardoin
> Still trucking here in Santa Maria, California reading the same microfilm
> for five months now and I'm still not done. Anyone have Gonzalez in their
> family tree?
>

In the records I am presently studying - Matrimonios of San José de
Gracia 1769-1783 - even the Parish name is written "Yglesia Parrochial
de el Pueblo de el Señor San Joseph de Gracia". Notice also the
spelling of Parroquial as Parrochial and the avoidance of the
contraction del. On some occasions Joseph is written in a slightly
truncated form, so that it looks like Joset or Josep. Josepha and
Phelipe also appear frequently.

--
Best regards,
Stuart mailto:stuartarms@gmail.com

George:

What year are the records you are talking about where people were signing Joseph while the priests were writing Jose?

Perhaps this was a sign of the priests being more "with the times" in adopting the orthographic reforms of the 1800s while the common people stuck to tradition. I imagine many people who were illiterate were taught to write their names in abbreviation for simplicity and the abbreviations went unchanged even when the full name spelling had undergone reform.

Just a teaser about a great posting that was made to the albums section by Cristina Pedroza with an excerpt from an academic source on the caste system in Mexico and including photos of the various castes. I have taken the libery to use one of them as the third image for our rotating banner images on the site.

http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/castas

The other one I recently added is a photo of my great-great-grandfather at the wedding of his youngest son in 1902 with the Totatiche landscape in the background. I am still open to receiving any more submissions.

This is hilarious! Thanks for sharing!!!

Lester Alvarado wrote: Hi there Joseph,

I know this is a little late on the subject but I thought some of the members might like this :

DE ESPANOL CON INDIA = MESTIZO DE CALPAMULATO CON CAMBUJO =TENTE EN EL AIRE
DE MISTIZO CON INDIA = COYOTE DE TENTE EN EL AIRE CON MULATA = NO TE INTIENDO
DE MISTIZO CON ESPANOLA = CASTIZO DE NO TE INTIENDO CON INDIA =TORNATRAS
DE CASTIZO CON ESPANOL = ESPANOL DE ALBARAZADO CON COYOTE = BARCINO
DE ESPANOLOA CON NEGRO = MULATO DE BARCINO CON MULATA =COYOTE
DE MULATO CON INDIA = LOBO DE COYOTE CON INDIO =CHAMIZO
DE ESPANOL CON MULATA = MORISCO DE CHAMIZO CON MESTIZA = COYOTE MESITZO
DE ESPANOL CON MORISCA = ALBINO O CHINO DE COYOTE MESTIZO Y MULATA = AHI TE ESTAS
DE ESPANOL CON ALBINO O CHINO = TORNA ATRAS
DE INDIO O MULATO CON TORNA ATRAS = LOBO
DE LOBO CON CHINA = JIBARO
DE CAMBUJO O JIBARA CON MULATA = ALBARAZADO
DE ALBARAZADO CON NEGRA = CAMBUJO
DE CAMBUJO CON INDIA = ZAMBAIGO
DE ZAMBAIGO CON LOBOA

This is such a common problem with internet genealogy. It seems that many people do not understand citing sources, and do not know what are valid references. I have occassionally tried to contact some people that have posted genealogies, and I have gotten very mixed responses. These have varied from none, to rather indignant replies, like "I know it's correct because my grandmother told me."

Family tradition is fine; sometimes it has basis in fact, sometimes not. If something is an unverified tradition, then so state! Perhaps someone will have the data that substantiates it.

Some data is open to interpretation: look at it critically. If the data is only suggestive of a connection, then state it.

I try to verify information against real sources whenever possible.

The Petronila de Moctezuma/Martin Navarro situation is a case in point. You see a lot of posted genealogies with them, but the evidence is lacking. I have looked at several histories, including "Montezuma's Children" by

Daniel and anyone else not receiving emails...

Can you please email Joseph and me at moderator [at] nuestrosranchos.org the details of when you stopped receiving messages and whether you changed anything in your Nuestros Ranchos account?

The first thing you should do if you have this problem is go into your spam folder and see if the mail is ending up there. If so, you will needs to add nuestrosranchos.org as a safe domain with your email provider so that the emails from the list bypass the spam filter.

PS In general you should address technical problems to the moderator email address rather than send them to the whole group via the mailing list.

Anybody who is interested in being part of the committee to help make Nuestros Ranchos into a formal organization, please sign up for the new "Association" mailing list on the site. Simply log on to the site and click on "Mailing Lists" from the right hand menu.

Our first task will be to draw up bylaws for the Association so any ideas as to how officers are elected and any suggestions for the language regarding the purpose of the Association would be greatly appreciated.

ESPAÑOL

Cualquier persona quien esté interesada en ser parte del comité para convertir a Nuestros Ranchos en una organización formal, por favor registrese para la nueva lista de correo-e llamada "Association" en el sitio. Simplemente ingrese al sitio y haga click en "Listas de Correo-e" desde el menu del lado derecho.

Nuestra primera tarea será redactar reglamentios de la asociciación así que nos gustaría que nos comuniquen cualquer idea sobre cómo se eligirán los oficiales así como sugerencias sobre lenguage

Carlos:

Please provide dates (even if approximate) when making inquiries. What years (approximately) did Maria Bonifacia and Juan San Pedro Sarmiento live?

Names of people with no geographic or chronological context in genealogy are not very meaningful. Names were often repeated and the sources for information will vary greatly by the timeframe involved, so it is very important to always provide dates in inquiries, genealogies, etc.

Jose Angel,?
I was looking at various Trees and note that we have Anacleto Gutierrez?
Casillas. Are your Anacleto's parents: Dionicio Gutierrez and Gertrudes?
Casillas? Is your Anacleto's wife Salome Padilla? He is my ggg?
grandfather! Pedro Gutierrez Padilla was my gg grandfather. My great?
grandfather was Jose Norberto Gutierrez, brother of your grandfather?
Epifamio Anacleto Gutierrez!?
If this is true, then you have hundreds of relatives in Sacramento who?
descend from Jose Norberto Gutierrez.??

Eloise Reyes?

Linda:

To contact a member, click on their username below any one of their posts on the site when you are logged on. This will take you to their user profile where there should be a tab labeled "Contact." You can use this contact form to have the site send a message to the user from you and begin one-on-one email correspondence with that user.

If you don't have a post to refer to, click on the Search button on the upper right, also when logged on, otherwise you get the Google search. Click on the tab for search by user profile, type in the name of the user and it should take you to their profile where you can follow the instructions above.

Dear Arturo:
Would like to volunteer for the Excel project.

Maureen Bejar

I like the idea of the book catalog for those of us who own pertinent
books. I would think that a brief desciption would be useful, too. Of
course, the latter would need to bilingually provided.

Would this be possibly her?

Border Crossings: From Mexico to U.S., 1903-1957
about Nicolasa Banuelos Name: Nicolasa Banuelos Arrival Date: 14 May 1924 Age: 9 Birth Date: abt 1915 Birthplace: Huejucar Birth Country: Mexico Gender: Female Race/Nationality: Mexican (Latino) Port of Arrival: El Paso, Texas, USA Accompanied by: Mother Ma?? Record has photo?: No

Yvonne

Hi George, you make a good point, well I think the other 20 children are missing, you could fit in many kids, there are huge gaps especially with Gertrudis Navarro she could have easily had another 8 or 9. As well as the other Gertrudis another 4 or 5. Same thing with Antonia another 4 or so. Don Juan sounds like the guy who had a child every year, I mean 45 he would have to have one every year, unless he had twins several times. another possibility. You could try looking at other "hot spots" where the Spanish of Aguas could go, a popular one, I have stumbled upon is PINOS, ZACATECAS. For some reason you find several of the early settlers going up there. Others include the rest of Aguas, sometimes northern Los Altos usually Lagos or Teocaltiche seem the common places. Also try Nochistlán. But to save time, I guess looking at the "Defunciones" would be helpful too in Aguas, since Id imagine they burried their stillborn (prob had some) where they lived (Aguas) . -Daniel

______________

What exactly are marriage information records? I have always
understood them to be a record of the publication of marriage banns,
or statements of intent to marry or marriage petitions. But
occasionally I find some that are dated after the fact, as if they
were announcements or were late in being entered into the register
(but these latter were transcribed by someone else so the dates may be
wrong). Can anyone shed light on this?

Second question:

If a marriage record states that the marriage was performed "en la
iglesia parroquial del Pueblo de San José de Gracia", but in the
margin the entry is prefaced by "Río Blanco" ... does that mean the
marriage was performed in a parish church in Río Blanco, which was of
the parrochial jurisdiction of the parish of the Pueblo of San José de
Gracia ... ? or does Río Blanco have some other significance.

-- Best regards, Stuart
mailto:stuartarms@gmail.com

George,

The Juan de Santiago who married Gertrudis Navarro in 1706 is probably the same Juan de Santiago Escobar who married Antonia Ruiz de Esparza in 1665 and Gertrudis Ruiz de Esparza Rangel in 1698. I came across his burial record a couple of years ago, and was surprised to find out that he had a total of 45 children, 24 of them still living in 1729. His burial record reads as follows (verbatim):

Al margen: "Juan de Sntiago casado con Gertrudis Navarro"

"En la villa de Aguas Calientes en primero dia de septiembre de mil setecientos veinte y nuebe años en esta Sa. Iglesia Parrochial enterre a Juan de Sntiago, español y vecino de esta dicha villa quien murio cuasi de sien años y fue casado tres veces y en los tres Matrimonios tubo cuarenta y sinco hijos lexitimos y tiempo de su fayecimiento dejo hijos beinte y cuatro de ellos y la ultima (?) mujer que fue Gertrudis Navarro. Se dispuso para Morir Recibiendo los Sanctos Sacramentos de Penitencia, Eucaristía y Extrema Uncion. No

The correct spelling is: hidropesía

This is an "Abnormal accumulation of liquid in some
cavity of the organism." I'm not sure what hidropesia
would translate to in English.

Hope that helps.

-Esther

--- longsjourney wrote:

>
>
> In reseaching records I've found this phrase used
> often and don't understand the translation. Can
> someone who speaks Spanish translate and solve my
> mystery?
>
> "originarios y vicenos de este lugar"
>
> On the subject of reasons for a death I've often
> found "hydropecia or hidropecia" any ideas?
>
> Thanks, Linda in Everett

"orginarios y vecinos de este lugar" literally translates as "natives and neighbors of this place"

Originario is a person who is originally from a place, so in this context it means that the people were born in the jurisdiccion, as opposed to having migrated there from somewhere else.

Vecino means neighbor which in this context means that they are residents of the jurisdiccion.

Someone who was originally from the place but had moved away would be originario de este lugar y vecino/feligres de "somewhere else"

Someone who had migrated to the jurisdiccion would be listed as originario de "somewhere else" y vecino de este lugar desde hace xxx anos... which would translate as resident of this place since xxx years ago.

Arturo, I think its amazing that you are willing to spearhead this
incorporation process. Can you explain what more we would gain from being
incorporated? And what kind of assistance is needed to make that happen?
Thanks, Raquel

Claudia,

You have found an example of the beautiful confusion of the Spanish surname system that existed before the standardization of surnames introduced under the Bourbon reforms. Basically, in Spain and Spanish America, it was quite common to give children maternal surnames and sometimes even maternal grandmother's surnames (I have seen many examples of girls being named for their grandmother including her surname and thus having a different surname than all of their siblings).

So in this case, it seems that somewhere down the line, someone could not decide which surname to use and switched back and forth (or perhaps the priest could not choose and switched back and forth). This was quite common and you will run into it more the further back you go. You should stay open to looking for both surnames. It could be that Monica's father used Placencia and Robles and therefore the records for his daughter simply matched whatever name he was using at the time.

Of course, there are

Hello All!
 
Please tell me what is "incorporation" I don´t have a clue what are you proposing about for "nuestros ranchos". What is the meaning of "next level"?
 
Por favor díganme qué es "incorporación" No tengo idea de lo que están proponiendo para "nuestros ranchos". ¿Cuál es el significado de "siguiente nivel"?
 
Thnk you in advance, Leticia Leon

--- El dom 12-abr-09, Efrain Conrique escribió:

De:: Efrain Conrique
Asunto: FW: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] The next step for Nuestros Ranchos - El próximo paso para Nuestros Ranchos
A: "NuestrosRanchos"
Cc: arturo.ramos2@gmail.com
Fecha: domingo, 12 abril, 2009, 4:01 pm

Arturo,

This thread being sent to the general membership as requested.

Efrain.

----- Original Message -----
From: Arturo Ramos
To: conrique1@earthlink.net
Sent: 4/12/2009 9:52:21 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] The next step for Nuestros Ranchos - El
próximo paso para Nuestros Ranchos

Thank you for your thoughtful insight on the topic Enfrain. If you

Hey guys !

This new feature sounds great ! Now , it´s up to the folks out there to use it and benifit from it .

Welester

> Previously the only way that you could search the site was by being a member and being logged in. We have now implemented a limited search function for visitors to the site who are not logged in. The search function is through Google so it only shows results for the "public" areas of the site, basically the forums.
>
> If you would like to get more complete search results, the full search function is still available when you are logged in. You will notice that the search field and button change and that you get much fuller results when you use the site search function. Please let us know what you think.

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