Has anyone researched San Martin de Bolaños, Jalisco? The church records only go back to 1905. Were earlier records lost or destroyed? If not, what nearby parish was being used?
you could check bolanos, teul, or tepechitlan
Try La Yesca, bolaños or chimaltitan & huehuquilla el alto.
I sent this to Daniel Mendez my cousin and his answer I thought would be of interest to many who's lines come from there
There was never an agreement though. The marrying of españoles with other españoles was due to being able to maintain a higher status in society by marrying other people considered to be españoles. Since marrying into a lower class would cause them to be reduced in class they tried to avoid that. This happened all over Mexico and not just in Los Altos. When peninsulares with daughters moved to the region that allowed the Alteños to marry them maintain a higher ratio of Spanish ancestry. There would be no need to have an agreement to do something that the rest of society in Latin America expected a person to do.
Armando
Normally I have read and heard about indiano being used for a person born in Spain that has gone to the Indies (America) and made a lot of money and gone back to Spain to live the rest of his life. However, that's the 4th definition in the dictionary of the Real Academia Española http://lema.rae.es/drae/?val=indiano
It's the first definition that seems to be what is used. Saying that he was born in America but his origins (ancestry) is from Spain.
I'm basing that on that fact that it says he was "natural de la ciudad de Guayaquil en la America Meridional y vago ya por varios puntos de esta septentrional..." which literally means he was "born in Guayaquil in South America and he traveled through various points of this North [America]" and because on the left indent it says español indiano which would mean his ancestry is considered Spanish.
Meridional means south and septentrional means north.
Someone asked a while back why the last name "Salado" was taken by some of their children, Cristobal, Lucas and Nicolas.
I cut and pasted too much of the link, here it is again. Google book page 533
https://books.google.com/books?id=Pi0_AAAAcAAJ&pg=PA533&lpg=PA533&dq=Ca…
Thanks
Ruben
Here in nuestrosranchos there has been some duscussion about the origin of the use of the lastname Salado among the Ruíz de Esparza family and so far I can tell you that no relationship can be established between the Salgados you mention whose "linaje" is shown in the book that you mention : "Nobiliario, Armas y Triunfos de Galicia....", and the "Salados" that appear in Nueva Galicia related to the Ruíz de Esparza and the Fernández de Vaulus y Siordia families.
What seems to be unquestioned is that the first documented "Salado" in Nueva Galicia is Juanes de Salado who married around 1585 Petrona Gutiérrez and these couple were the parents of Bernardo Salado born around 1585, Jerónima de Salado born around 1587 and Diego Salado baptized on may 2, 1593 in Mexico City.
Bernardo Salado married around 1605 Juana Fernández de Vaulus y Siordia Navarro de Gabay, daughter of Pedro Fernández de Vaulus and María Navarro de Gabay.
This Juana Fernández de Vaulus y Navarro was cousin of
Ruben
I forgot telling you that the name of the father of Diego Arias de Sotelo has been already mentioned here in nuestrosranchos several times and was not Antonio Sotelo Salgado but Antonio de Sotelo y Cisneros son of Pedro de Sotelo and Beatríz de Cisneros.
Pedro de Sotelo was the son of Lope de Sotelo who died in 1447 and founded in his will a chapel in the church of San Andrés in Zamora.
Carlos, thank you for setting the record straight. I could not find the posts you were talking about. Also, I did not want to follow the wrong lineage family. This is why I mentioned I was not 100% sure so I could get feedback on the right information. Thanks again for clearing this up. Now I can correct my family tree.
Ruben
Thanks Bill for your words, well both of my Esparza lines are currently Francisco Esparsa (estimated birth 1828) and my other line is Matiana Esparsa (Est. birth 1832). My grandfather actually believes these two people are first cousins since all of our "families" would intermarry within our family and I too believe this.
Maria de la Luz AVILA Calvillo had one sibling that I know of:
Luis Serapio AVILA Calvillo #299471
baptized 3 Sep 1838, El Sagrario, Aguascalientes, Ags
hijo legitimo de Don Joaquin AVILA y doña Feliciana CALVILLO
Abuelos paternos: Don Antonio de AVILA y doña Ynes DIAS de TISCARENO
Abuelos maternos: Don Rodrigo CALVILLO y doña Ana LOPEZ PORTILLO
Madrina: Doña Mariana CALVILLO
p 215 (I don't have a batch number, these are from my notes years ago when I read the film)
Don Joaquin AVILA had a sister:
Maria Gertrudis AVILA Dias-Tiscareno, c. 1775
A submission to the IGI gives her husband as:
Joseph Sotero CALBILLO Ximenes
hijo de Vicente CALVILLO y Maria Jeronima XIMENEZ Albarado
I have not checked this out.
A Sotero CALVILLO was the testigo to the marriage of:
Jose Maria MACIAS Calvillo to Anna Maria DIAS Medina, Jun 1791
Joseph Sotero CALBILLO and Maria Gertrudis AVILA were married in 1803, according to a submission to IGI.
They had at least 5 children that I know of, the first
Daniel,
I found a Matiana Esparza that married Pablo Villalobos in Calvillo on 3 June 1865. Check Batch No. M604355 Source Call No. 0635888 Marriages 1854-1874 San Jose Calvillo Aguascalientes. This is the only Matiana Esparza I found in Calvillo in the mid-1800s. I have experienced many times that when last names are abbreviated or not clearly written in the manuscripts, they are sometimes incorrectly transcribed, so "Pablo Villalobos" may have been your "Pablo Vazquez". Also, there could be an error in the church records. Fortunately, this marriage is in the same microfilm that has the record of Francisco Esparza and Maria de la Luz Avila's marriage, so you can check them both at the same time.
Bill
Daniel,
Both Francisco and Matiana Esparza were common names among the families of Aguascalientes and neighboring states. However, you already know that Francisco married María de la Luz Avila and Matiana married Pablo Vazquez, and that they moved to Huanusco in the mid-1800s. I have not looked for any ancestors in Huanusco, but if I had to, I would probably start by checking catholic church records for the period when my ancestors lived there. Who knows, maybe they were married, baptized their children or were buried in the area. You can order Registros parroquiales, 1747-1925 for the "Iglesia Católica. Santa María Mecatabasco (Villa del Refugio, Zacatecas)" through your local FHC. FamilySearch also lists "Registros parroquiales, 1914-1920 Iglesia Católica (Huanusco, Zacatecas)". The more recent ones would probably not be much help to you. A word of caution: start from WHAT YOU KNOW and try to work your way back to previous generations, not the other way around. There have
I found Francisco Esparza and Ma. Luz Avila on a death of one of there
daughters who I cant name right at the moment.
>From: "Bill Figueroa"
>Reply-To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
>To:
>Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ruiz de Esparsa
>Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 10:20:57 -0600
>
>Daniel,
>
>Both Francisco and Matiana Esparza were common names among the families of
>Aguascalientes and neighboring states. However, you already know that
>Francisco married María de la Luz Avila and Matiana married Pablo Vazquez,
>and that they moved to Huanusco in the mid-1800s. I have not looked for
>any ancestors in Huanusco, but if I had to, I would probably start by
>checking catholic church records for the period when my ancestors lived
>there. Who knows, maybe they were married, baptized their children or were
>buried in the area. You can order Registros parroquiales, 1747-1925 for
>the "Iglesia Católica. Santa María Mecatabasco (Villa del Refugio,
>Zacatecas)" through your local FHC.
Daniel:
The descendants of Lope Ruiz de Esparza are well documented up to a certain point, as Bill mentioned. The records in Aguascalientes are pretty decent as well so if you could provide us with some more details about Francisco Esparza and Matiana Esparza (i.e. whom did they marry and approximately what year?) we can probably trace them back to one of the documented branches of the Ruiz de Esparza family.
Is this the same Matiana per chance? If so, you can order the film and find out who her parents were. There are too many Franciscos for me to list but as I said if you can help us with his spouse's name we may be able to track him down too.
MATIANA ESPARZA
Spouse: PABLO VILLALOBOS
Marriage: 03 JUN 1865 San Jose, Calvillo, Aguascalientes, Mexico
Batch No.: M604355 Film No.: 0635888
Arturo,
I've been wondering about this surname Ruiz de Esparza. There are so many Ruiz and so many Esparza in Aguascalientes, but few have kept the whole name Ruiz de Esparza to the present. Did some drop the Ruiz and kept Esparza or was Esparza a separate line? I have traced one of my husband's lines to a Hacienda de Santiago and Hacienda de Morcenique as far back as his gggggg grandparents Maria Cecilia de Esparza who married a Francisco Duron, son of Felis Antonio Duron and Michaela de Avalos Villasenor, in Aguascalientes (Ciudad) on 4 OCT 1745. They lived in Hacienda de Santiago at the time. Their children were born in Morcenique. Francisco Duron was from "Asientos". Maria Cecilia's parents were listed as Miguel de Esparsa and Efigenia de Cordoba. They must have been born around the late 1600s. Could this Miguel de Esparza be traced back to one of the documented branches of the Ruiz de Esparza?
Thanks,
Emilie Garcia
Port Orchard, WA ---
----- Original Message -----
Emilie:
Composed surnames were quite common in the early centuries of Mexican colonial history... I know in my area there were the Carlos de Godoy, the Valdes y Llanos, the Ortiz de San Pedro, Lopes de Talamantes, etc. Over time people began shortening the names so some ended up simply Carlos, others Godoy, others Valdes, etc.
I read somewhere that at the time of independence there was a lot of Hispanophobia in Mexico and many gachupines were expelled or killed. Many of the families with composed names like these dropped part of their name at the time because they felt it linked them to strongly to Spain and kept more simple "Mexican" sounding names.
I don't know how true this is since I have seen the name dropping occurring way before independece. Maybe the priests just didn't want to waste ink! :)
I would say there is a decent chance that the Esparza you are writing about might be a descendant of Lope Ruiz de Esparza. It is also important to note that indigenous people and
Arturo, has Miguel Caldera's mother ever been named? I've never seen anything except his fathers name. Is it known where Miguel Caldera was born? I have 3 Caldera grandmothers in my direct lines. Any idea why the Caldera's, including my lines all claimed Espanol when they were Mestizo's from very early on. When I was in El Durazno, district of Jerez it seemed half the town was Caldera, green eyes, blue eyes, freckled and also very dark skinned with brown eyes.
Linda in Everett
arturoramos wrote:
Emilie:
Composed surnames were quite common in the early centuries of Mexican colonial history... I know in my area there were the Carlos de Godoy, the Valdes y Llanos, the Ortiz de San Pedro, Lopes de Talamantes, etc. Over time people began shortening the names so some ended up simply Carlos, others Godoy, others Valdes, etc.
I read somewhere that at the time of independence there was a lot of Hispanophobia in Mexico and many gachupines were expelled or killed. Many of the
Emilie,
As you probably know, Lope Ruiz de Esparza was the owner of the Hda. de Morcenique following the foundation of the city of Aguascalientes in 1575. Lope arrived in Mexico in 1593 from Pamplona, Navarra. The Hda. de Santiago was owned by Gerónimo de Orosco. The fact that Francisco Durón and María Cecilia de Esparza had their children in Morcenique is a pretty good indicative that María Cecilia was a direct descendant of Lope Ruiz de Esparza.
The compounded surname was brought to Mexico by Lope Ruiz de Esparza, one of the early settlers of Aguascalientes. It was common practice in those days to drop the first part of a compounded name to shorten it, i.e. many early records refer to those with the compound surname Ruiz de Esparza simply as "Esparza". Not even Lope's children were spared from this practice. For example, the baptismal record of Pedro Fernández de Vaulus in 1634 reads "fueron padrinos Salvador de Esparsa and María de Vielma". Salvador Ruiz de Esparza, born in
Bill,
Thanks for your response and information on the Esparza name. No, I don't have any information any farther back than the marriage record of Francisco Duron and Maria Cecilia de Esparza that gives her parents' names as Miguel de Esparza and Efigenia de Cordova. That is a brick wall for me. I was hoping that perhaps you or Arturo could trace Miguel back farther. Also, as Arturo stated, perhaps Miguel was an indigenous person who only took the name of Esparza, even though the marriage record for Cecilia and Francisco lists them as espanoles. Some of their children are listed as mestizos, so that makes me wonder. So, by what is said in the Nochistlan book, the Esparzas got their name from the place they lived in in Spain, the "palacio de Esparza"? I wonder if Efigenia's ancestors were from Cordova in Spain.
Emilie
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Figueroa
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 4:21 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros
So many of us have this same Ruiz de Esparza line; has anyone done research
as to the "Vielma" family(s) from this early time frame? I have wondered if
references to "Biedma", "Viezma",
"Bedmar" etc. are the same or misspellings/mis-transcriptions of this name
or totally different families.
>From: "Bill Figueroa"
>Reply-To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
>To:
>Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ruiz de Esparza in Aguascalientes
>Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 18:21:11 -0600
>
>Emilie,
>
>As you probably know, Lope Ruiz de Esparza was the owner of the Hda. de
>Morcenique following the foundation of the city of Aguascalientes in 1575.
>Lope arrived in Mexico in 1593 from Pamplona, Navarra. The Hda. de
>Santiago was owned by Gerónimo de Orosco. The fact that Francisco Durón
>and María Cecilia de Esparza had their children in Morcenique is a pretty
>good indicative that María Cecilia was a direct descendant of Lope Ruiz de
>Esparza.
>
>The compounded surname was brought to Mexico by
Edgar Olguin Diaz
hola bill figueroa
donde puedo obtener este documento el original para mandarlo a imprimir donde menciona los padres de lope ruiz de esparza?
tienes el enlace o el archivo? me harian el favor de pasarmelo
te lo agradeceria mucho
hay disculpa por estas molestias
saludos
te tangas un buen dia
hola buenos dias
bill figueroa
donde puedo encontrar una copia de este documento
donde acredita su ascedencia don lope ruiz de esparza?
me podrias pasar una copia?
o decirme como buscarlo?
excelente dia
saludos
Can this presentation be watched via the Internet ? I'm not clear on how it works.
No it can't but contact Angel (see his email below) for more information
> > From: Angel R. Cervantes [mailto:angelrcervantes@gmail.com]
Has anyone further researched Petronila and found documents on her true identity?
This is what I have been able to put together from the internet, this is a assumption of her origins.
Edgar Olguin Diaz
buenos dias compañeros
alguien tiene noticias o alguna novedad
sobre la publicacion del libro de don guillermo tovar y teresa
donde menciona el documento donde muestra el linaje de petronila de moctezuma
a diego arias de sotelo y leonor balderrama como padres de petronila ?
espero y haiga noticias buenas y muy pronto
saludos
excelente dia
Aun no hay noticias de ello, yo tambien estoy a la espectativa.
El 9 de enero de 2015, 7:55, escribió:
> Edgar Olguin Diaz
> buenos dias compañeros
>
> alguien tiene noticias o alguna novedad sobre la publicacion del libro de
> don guillermo tovar y teresa donde menciona el documento donde muestra el
> linaje de petronila de moctezuma
> a diego arias de sotelo y leonor balderrama como padres de petronila ?
>
> espero y haiga noticias buenas y muy pronto
>
> saludos excelente dia
>
Aun no hay noticias de ello, yo tambien estoy a la espectativa.
El 9 de enero de 2015, 7:55, escribió:
> Edgar Olguin Diaz
> buenos dias compañeros
>
> alguien tiene noticias o alguna novedad sobre la publicacion del libro de
> don guillermo tovar y teresa donde menciona el documento donde muestra el
> linaje de petronila de moctezuma
> a diego arias de sotelo y leonor balderrama como padres de petronila ?
>
> espero y haiga noticias buenas y muy pronto
>
> saludos excelente dia
>
Andres Gonzalez
I believe most of what I am copying below from a GEDCOM file I downloaded is already mentioned in these posts but just in case there is something new here it is below. This GEDCOM goes back further so if anyone is interested I can upload it.
Andy
NAME Leonor /de Moctezuma/
NAME
GIVN Leonor
SURN de Moctezuma
NICK Mariana Leonor
NICK Marina
SEX. F
NOTE {geni:about_me} One of three maiden daughters presented to Hernan Cortes by Moctezuma in November 1519, according to Hernando Alvarado Tezozomoc, writer for Crónica Mexicayotl (published 1975). Born from the daughter of chief coun
NOTE
CONT selor Tlilpotonqui (Moctezuma II's cousin). Married twice, received as dowry the town of Ecatepec within present Mexico Estado in the first marriage:
CONT Spouses:
CONT *1. Juan de la Paez.
CONT *2. Cristobal de Valderama (who sired Leonor Valderama de Moctezuma - Leonor married Diego Arias de Sotelo and were progenitors of the Sotelo Moctezuma family)
CONT Source: Doña Isabel de
Hi Andres
Above i read the following:
"Diego Arias de Sotelo died four years later on July 7, 1566."
That is not correct. If you do a search for Christobal de valderrama Sotelo in PARES with the dates 1582 to 1583, you get a hit for a file that includes a letter from Diego Arias Sotelo (signed by him) dated febr 1582 to his son Christobal. This info is already here in the forum somewhere but i could not find it.
I found a document Monday which shows he died before 1584. More about that later in a separate post...
Regards
Denise
Edgar Olguin Diaz
buenos dias a todos
aqui encontre un comentario que publico ElCapitanPaco este es el link
http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/21906?page=3
aqui comenta un fragmento del libro de don Guillermo Tovar de Teresa
donde mencionan el linaje MOCTEZUMA pero no mencionan las fuentes
y quiero compartirlo con ustedes para que me pudieran dar su punto de vista
el contenido es el siguiente:
APÉNDICE
MOCTEZUMA
Una vez estando en prensa la presente obra, don Guillermo Tovar de Teresa ha tenido la gentileza de proporcionarme información sumamente valiosa, producto de su personal investigación, que complemente esta monografía y también la correspondiente a la familia Fernández de Vaulus. En virtud de que esta obra ha sido concluida y se encuentra ya en proceso de impresión, la incluyo en este Apéndice de manera sumamente sintetizada y omitiendo las citas bibliográficas que le sirven de soporte, en espera de que el ilustre humanista la publique integralmente con todo el aparato
Edgar,
Eso ya lo había mencionado en mi primer mensaje dirigido a Aldo en
http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/es/node/22463
Has confundido unas cosas. Lo que tienes en el fragmento es del libro
Retoños de España en La Nueva Galicia por don Mariano González Leal. Se
encuentra ese apéndice en Tomo VII en la monografía Ruiz de Esparza. Lo se
porque tengo los diez tomos. Don Guillermo Tovar de Teresa tuvo la
gentiliza de proporcionar esa información a don Mariano González Leal.
No podemos hacer mas que seguir buscando entre los documentos digitalizados
hasta que se publique el libro de don Guillermo Tovar de Teresa.Armando
Armando
2014-10-06 11:39 GMT-05:00 :
> Edgar Olguin Diaz
>
> buenos dias a todos
>
> aqui encontre un comentario que publico ElCapitanPaco este es el link
> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/21906?page=3
> aqui comenta un fragmento del libro de don Guillermo Tovar de Teresa donde
> mencionan el linaje MOCTEZUMA pero no mencionan las fuentes
> y quiero compartirlo con
Edgar Olguin Diaz
hola armando
me haber confundido con los comentarios
una pregunta puede ser confiable la informacion donde se mencionan los ascendencia de petronila de moctezuma? aunque no tengo la fuente de dicha informacion?
puedo hacer un anexo en mis archivos?
tienes informacion de los padres de martin navarro gabay?
y de diego arias de sotelo?
en un comenctario se mencionaron los padres de martin pero yano los encontrer la publicacion y lo sde diego dicen es son su padres antonio sotelo y uzenda nuñez
esta informacion es correcta?
Hi
Information about Diego Arias Sotelo and his family can be found through this NR link:
http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/21997
You can also try a search within Nuestros Ranchos, it will give you several interesting hits.
Regards
Denise
Edgar Olguin Diaz
buenos dias denise
gracias por compartir esta informacion
este documento es muy interesante ya que se mencionan la carta de confirmacion de oficio de diego arias de sotelo y en ella se mencionan la edad y sus padres ya lo encontrer y lo estudie ya lo documente en mis archivo en espera
te lo agradezco mucho
estamos en contacto
excelente dia
saludos
Hello Denise, hello all !
The puzzle we have with the descendants of Moctezuma gets a little bit bigger, what I mean is that re-reading the Book "Partidos y Padrones del Obispado de Michoacan 1680-1685" mentions several Moctezumas living in Michoacán during those days and they appear with the title of "Dons", which means that they -while mestizos- were considered very important people.
It is interesting that those "Moctezumas" lived around the town of Ario which is located in the southern part of the state. It must be considered that the central and northern part of the state were the lands appartaining to the Tarascos Kings and that the last heiress of the Tarasco Kings had big properties near Valladolid as well as Don Fernando Sotelo de Moctezuma: the two were nearly the propietors of the whole valley of Tarímbaro.
The southern part of Michoacán was not Tarascan land because somehow some nahuatl people managed to remain independent from the Tarascos and I´m guessing that these
Al parecer ya encontré el origen de los Vilches Moctezuma que vivían en Ario, Mich., en 1685 y son descendientes de la principal esposa de Moctezuma, la princesa heredera de Tula llamada Miyahuatzochitl, que por ser la esposa principal fue también Emperatríz de México y luego fue bautizada como María Miyahuatzochitl.
Moctezuma y María tuvieron a Pedro Tlacahuepanzin Moctezuma el cual casó tres veces y de su tercera mujer llamada Catalina Magdalena Quayaxóchitl tuvo al menos tres hijos :
Pedro Tesifón, Ana María y el mayor llamado Diego Luis Ihuitlemoctzin Moctezuma que testó el 31-may-1606 en Valladolid, Mex., cuyo hijo Pedro Tesifón y de la Cueva fue el primer Conde de Moctezuma
De Ana María sabemos que casó con Juan Bautista Becerra ca 1580 y fueron padres de Cristóbal Becerra y Moctezuma quien testó el 2-ene-1638 y ahí declara que su madre Ana María era la legítima dueña de Tula y no su tío Diego Luis Moctezuma, pero que había llegado a un acuerdo con su tío el cual se había
Edgar Olguin Diaz
buenas tardes a todos
cuando publicaran el libro donde se mencionan a los padres de petronila de moctezuma?
es muy interesante necesito esa informacion se los agradezceria mucho
me gustaria estudiar ese docmento donde se hace esa mencion
saludos a todos
excelenete dia
Aldo,
Aparte de otros documentos que comprueban que Leonor Valderrama de Moctezuma fue nieta del emperador Moctezuma existe un documento en el rollo matromonios 779562
Información matrimonial y actas diversas 1660- 1669 (incluye padrones)
que menciona al Br Don Antonio Moctezuma Cervantes hijo legitimo de Fernando Sotelo Moctezuma y María de Cervantes abuelos paternos Diego de Arias Sotelo regidor mas antiguo de la cd de Mex de los primeros pobladores de esta cd
y de Doña Leonor de Valderama Moctezuma su legitima mujer y la dicha Leonor hija legitima del Capt Cristobal Valderama y de Leonor Moctezuma hija legitima del emperador Moctezuma y de La ? Acatlanhijo del Rey de Soconusco.
Lo que nos falta a todos es una copia del documento que comprueba que Petronila era hija de Leonor Valderrama de Moctezuma. Guillermo Tovar y Teresa había encontrado ese documento y tenia planeado publicar la información y la fuente en un libro pero falleció el 10 de noviembre 2013. El 31 de julio
Gracias Armando! Espero que si se publique ese libro.
Aldo
Edgar Olguin Diaz
buenas tardes armando
como puedo encontrar el documento en el rollo matromonios 779562
Información matrimonial y actas diversas 1660- 1669 (incluye padrones)
en que estado lo busco?
te lo agradezceria mucho
excelente dia
saludo
Hola Edgar Olguin :
Ese numero corresponde a Michoacan , arquidiócesis de Morelia
el numero que das me da esto en la pestana catalogo : Informaciones matrimoniales y actas diversas : antigua Diócesis de Michoacán, 1647-1808
https://familysearch.org/search/catalog/394235?availability=Family%20Hi…
Información matrimonial y actas diversas 1660- 1669 (incluye padrones)
Granite Mountain Record Vault
International Film
779562
Busque en los archivos de Michoacan
Mexico, Michoacán, Cathol...Church Records, 1555-1996MoreliaArquidiócesis de MoreliaInformación matrimonial y...s 1660-1669 Padrones 1668
Pero el numero de microfilm que da en la primera pagina es otro 779065 :(
El enlace de arriba da buena información sobre lo que hay en los archivos de esta arquidiocesis
Tu crees que allí hay info sobre Petronila? Podríamos unirnos muchos interesados y a buscar coordinadamente.
Espero que esto ayude
Julieta
-----Message d'origine-----
De : Research
Edgar Olguin Diaz
buenos dias julieta martha
en la publicacion que hizo armando sobre este microfilm
dice que mencionan que menciona lo siguiente :
al Br Don Antonio Moctezuma Cervantes hijo legitimo de Fernando Sotelo Moctezuma y María de Cervantes abuelos paternos Diego de Arias Sotelo regidor mas antiguo de la cd de Mex de los primeros pobladores de esta cd
y de Doña Leonor de Valderama Moctezuma su legitima mujer y la dicha Leonor hija legitima del Capt Cristobal Valderama y de Leonor Moctezuma hija legitima del emperador Moctezuma y de La ? Acatlanhijo del Rey de Soconusco.
asi entiendo yo en la publicacion de armando en este mismo foro no se si estoy en lo correcto?
me interesa mucho encontrar este documento si es que se mencionan todas estas generaciones este es un punto otro punto es el de petronila de moctezuma donde se mencionan que el historiador guillermo teresa encontror el documento donde se mencionan los padres de petronila y lo iva a publicar en su libro pero
Un articulo del periodico "La jornada" dado a conocer el 14 de febrero del
2014 menciona que Rafael Tovar y de Teresa publicara un libro inedito sobre
la historia de Mexico escrito por su hermano Guillermo, presiso que podria
ser en noviembre del 2014 o en agosto del 2015, hay que estar pendientes.
Este es un link donde "la Jornada" publica el articulo.
http://www.jornada.unam.mx/2014/02/15/cultura/a02n1cul
El 3 de octubre de 2014, 8:34, escribió:
> Edgar Olguin Diaz
> buenos dias julieta martha
>
> en la publicacion que hizo armando sobre este microfilm
> dice que mencionan que menciona lo siguiente :
>
> al Br Don Antonio Moctezuma Cervantes hijo legitimo de Fernando Sotelo
> Moctezuma y María de Cervantes abuelos paternos Diego de Arias Sotelo
> regidor mas antiguo de la cd de Mex de los primeros pobladores de esta cd
> y de Doña Leonor de Valderama Moctezuma su legitima mujer y la dicha
> Leonor hija legitima del Capt Cristobal Valderama y de Leonor Moctezuma
> hija
Un articulo del periodico "La jornada" dado a conocer el 14 de febrero del
2014 menciona que Rafael Tovar y de Teresa publicara un libro inedito sobre
la historia de Mexico escrito por su hermano Guillermo, presiso que podria
ser en noviembre del 2014 o en agosto del 2015, hay que estar pendientes.
Este es un link donde "la Jornada" publica el articulo.
http://www.jornada.unam.mx/2014/02/15/cultura/a02n1cul
El 3 de octubre de 2014, 8:34, escribió:
> Edgar Olguin Diaz
> buenos dias julieta martha
>
> en la publicacion que hizo armando sobre este microfilm
> dice que mencionan que menciona lo siguiente :
>
> al Br Don Antonio Moctezuma Cervantes hijo legitimo de Fernando Sotelo
> Moctezuma y María de Cervantes abuelos paternos Diego de Arias Sotelo
> regidor mas antiguo de la cd de Mex de los primeros pobladores de esta cd
> y de Doña Leonor de Valderama Moctezuma su legitima mujer y la dicha
> Leonor hija legitima del Capt Cristobal Valderama y de Leonor Moctezuma
> hija
Edgar Olguin Diaz
buenas noches glezgo
gracias por enviarme el articulo
hay que estar al pendiente de la publicaion de este libro
es muy interesante con esta información del libro se resolverá muchas dudas
específicamente de Petronila de Moctezuma de quienes eran sus padres
esperare con ancias este libro asi podre hacer la relación de diego arias Sotelo como padres de Petronila de Moctezuma
seguire checando los documentos de michoacan que me publicaron en este foro
excelente dia
saludos estamos en contacto
cualquier noticia que tenga la hare saber a todos ustedes
Edgar, el libro es de historia, pero ignoro si contendra informacion de
Petronila Moctezuma, Guillermo dijo algo al respecto?
El 4 de octubre de 2014, 20:29, escribió:
> Edgar Olguin Diaz
> buenas noches glezgo
>
> gracias por enviarme el articulo hay que estar al pendiente de la
> publicaion de este libro
> es muy interesante con esta información del libro se resolverá muchas dudas
> específicamente de Petronila de Moctezuma de quienes eran sus padres
>
> esperare con ancias este libro asi podre hacer la relación de diego arias
> Sotelo como padres de Petronila de Moctezuma
>
> seguire checando los documentos de michoacan que me publicaron en este
> foro
>
> excelente dia
> saludos estamos en contacto
>
> cualquier noticia que tenga la hare saber a todos ustedes
>
>
>
>
>
Edgar Olguin Diaz
alguna fecha para poder ubicar el documento ?
Edgar Olguin Diaz
buenas noches armando
una pregunta disculpa la molestia
como puedo encontrar el documentos que comprueban que Leonor Valderrama de Moctezuma fue nieta del emperador Moctezuma ?
tu amigo mencionas que existe un documento en el rollo matromonios 779562
Información matrimonial y actas diversas 1660- 1669 (incluye padrones)
y en su contenido dice lo siguiente?
que menciona al Br Don Antonio Moctezuma Cervantes hijo legitimo de Fernando Sotelo Moctezuma y María de Cervantes abuelos paternos Diego de Arias Sotelo regidor mas antiguo de la cd de Mex de los primeros pobladores de esta cd
y de Doña Leonor de Valderama Moctezuma su legitima mujer y la dicha Leonor hija legitima del Capt Cristobal Valderama y de Leonor Moctezuma hija legitima del emperador Moctezuma y de La ? Acatlanhijo del Rey de Soconusco.
me podrias pasar el link para descargarlo?
te lo agradezceria mucho
espero y me puedas ayudar y disculpa las moletias
que tengas un excelente dia
saludos
Hola, Edgar.
No tengo el enlace porque ese rollo todavía no está en linea. Ni idea si lo
han digitalizado.
Saludos
Armando
2014-10-04 22:20 GMT-05:00 :
> Edgar Olguin Diaz
> buenas noches armando
> una pregunta disculpa la molestia
> como puedo encontrar el documentos que comprueban que Leonor Valderrama de
> Moctezuma fue nieta del emperador Moctezuma ?
>
> tu amigo mencionas que existe un documento en el rollo matromonios 779562
> Información matrimonial y actas diversas 1660- 1669 (incluye padrones)
> y en su contenido dice lo siguiente?
> que menciona al Br Don Antonio Moctezuma Cervantes hijo legitimo de
> Fernando Sotelo Moctezuma y María de Cervantes abuelos paternos Diego de
> Arias Sotelo regidor mas antiguo de la cd de Mex de los primeros pobladores
> de esta cd
> y de Doña Leonor de Valderama Moctezuma su legitima mujer y la dicha
> Leonor hija legitima del Capt Cristobal Valderama y de Leonor Moctezuma
> hija legitima del emperador Moctezuma y de La ? Acatlanhijo del
un cordial saludo armando
una pregunta
este documento que mencionas donde dice que Leonor Valderrama es nieta de Moctezuma
en que estadoo esta?
como lo puedo buscar ?
me podrias pasar el link
o el archivo de ese documento?
tienes la fecha de ese documento?
en ese documento menciona todas esas generaciones?
aquí mencionas el microfilm pero de que estado pertenece?
te lo agradecería mucho amigo
excelente dia
Aldo
I've spent a fair amount of time looking for this connection, but have never been able to find anything documented.
The Codex Chimalpahin has some tantalizing information which I previously posted:
Leonore de Moctezuma's section named her husband Cristobal de Valderrama, their daughter Leonore, and her (the daughter Lenore) marriage with Diego Sotelo. Their children (Ana and Hernando Sotelo de Moctezuma) are called quadroons. Hernando [or Fernando from other records] it says had several children: five that are commonly seen in the published genealogies, and five more who are unnamed!! This is most interesting.
The section on Valderrama de Moctezuma / Sotelo de Moctezuma repeats this information, with some additions: It says the five children (still names unknown) are living with their father in Michhuacan. [Is "Michhuacan" Michoacan?] It says that these five children are all Spaniards because their mother was a Spaniard and their father was a quadroon. This was written in 1619
Thank you so much for this helpful information George!!!
Aldo
Mariana, not Marina
Mariana stopped using Mariana when she was confirmed as Leonor
It is important to not mix up Marina and Mariana
Even though martins descendants mainly used Navarro and most genealogists list him as You do as Martin Navarro de Gabay, I have changed how I list him in my records to Martin Gabai de Navarro, "El de Navarro"
R.A.Ricci
The following document from before 1574 clearly states "doña Leonor alias doña Marina casada con Xpoval de Valderrama"
http://pares.mcu.es/ParesBusquedas/servlets/Control_servlet?accion=0 then search on Moctezuma and 1574 then click on Mapas y Planos then click on Arbol genealógico de los descendientes de Moctezuma then click Ver imágenes
Armando
To Armando,
Thank you for correcting my statement regarding Mariana. I was unaware that she had also been referred to as Marina. It is important to not confuse her as the Marina that served as interpreter for Cortez. Other records name her as Mariana or Leonor.
R.A.Ricci
I clicked on the link, but it doesn't populate anything. It gives me a error message.
Thank you Armando!!!
Aldo
You might want to look into "Crónica mexicáyotl" by Fernando Alvarado Tezozomoc, written in Nahuatl and translated into castellano.
It's the history of the Aztecs, names their kings and advisors and gives genealogy. It doesn't mention Petrona, but it does mention Leonor ("Maria" in this text), lets see if this link works:
http://books.google.com/books?id=t1SeUGdhih0C&q=Cristobal+Valderrama#v=…
Manny Diez Hermosillo
http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/jrefugioghermosillo
Alguien me puede explicar como era el proceso paar obtener una tierra realenga?, cuando una persona obtenia una tierra realenga se le otorgaba el titulo de Capitan?
From: Miguel Muñoz Borrego [mailto:miguel.munoz15@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2015 12:38 PM
To: enclick@aim.com
Subject: CONFERENCIA BINACIONAL
De: Miguel Muñoz Borrego
Thank you so much for this info! I have been stuck for years with this couple.
I have never been able to find either of their parents and you have solved this
for me. I am so very grateful.
Francisco Campos (19 oct 1784 ) hijo de Antonio Casimiro Campos y de Francisca Eufracia Castañeda (26 ap 1742)..nieto de Manuel de Campos y Maria Antonia Luna y de Pedro de Castañeda y Juana de Escobedo ( éstos últimos por confirmar con acta de eufracia) Antonio Campos y Eufracia se casan en TepechitlAN EL 5 MAR 1764 M60081-8 film 445047
Pedro de Castañeda (6 may 1711) hijo de Fernando de Castañeda y Antonia de Cobarrubias
Leticia Reynoso
Eufracia Castañeda era hija de Jose Manuel Castañeda y Maria Antonia de la Torre.
SALUDOS.
Hi, my name is Barb Walker Terrones. I just posted a message regarding the Terrones family. I neglected to include my URL address is:
Hello Armando, I am contemplating the Y-DNA, however, I have a
question regarding the Y-DNA, according of what I have read on
the subject, is that through the Y-DNA, it will discover a paternal
Hello Arturo,
There is no guarantee that you would be able to break through the wall with
a Y-DNA test even if you match another person. What it can do is tell you
if you have matches and if you do whether they have the same surname and it
provides you with their email address so you can ask them if they have a
tree if there isn't one on their FTDNA page. If you don't have any matches
at least you will know that the paternal line doesn't belong to any of the
ones that have tested so far. Many of them can be seen at
https://www.familytreedna.com/public/NuevaGaliciaDNA/default.aspx?secti…
and there are many others that haven't joined the project but can be seen
in other projects or in ysearch.org or SMGF.org where you can also upload
your results to try and find a match.
You would also be able to find out your haplogroup if you get the Y-DNA
test.
If you don't get the test you will never know if there is a Y-DNA match.
If you do decide to get a Y-DNA test you need to test
Hello Arturo,
I had sent this message out as an email but it didn't post to this thread. If the email ever posts here I apologize for the double post.
There is no guarantee that you would be able to break through the wall with a Y-DNA test even if you match another person. What it can do is tell you if you have matches and if you do whether they have the same surname and it provides you with their email address so you can ask them if they have a tree if there isn't one on their FTDNA page. If you don't have any matches at least you will know that the paternal line doesn't belong to any of the ones that have tested so far. Many of them can be seen at https://www.familytreedna.com/public/NuevaGaliciaDNA/default.aspx?secti… and there are many others that haven't joined the project but can be seen in other projects or in ysearch.org or SMGF.org where you can also upload your results to try and find a match.
You would also be able to find out your haplogroup if you get the Y
We will be making another attempt at upgrading the software on the website tonight Monday January 19, 2015. The website will be down for a few hours around 9 pm Eastern (New York) time.
We have successfully upgraded the site, resolving a number of issues that were preventing us from approving new users and making changes on the site. Not all functionalities are fully up and running so please be patient while we test and trouble shoot the remaining items.
Hemos tenido éxito en la actualización del sitio, resolviendo varios problemas que nos prevenían aprobar solicitudes para membrecía y hacer cambios al sitio. Aún no funcionan todas las partes del sitio así que pedimos su paciencia mientras hacemos pruebas y resolvemos los problemas que quedan.
Judios en Los altos I do believe that there is a high percentage of
shepardic lineage in Los altos de Jalisco. According to diario judio.
If that were true there would be a higher percentage of Y-DNA, mtDNA, and autosomal DNA that is more common among Jews than there actually is in Los Altos. Marriages between relatives happened all over the world including in the Basque Country and Ireland which are populations whose DNA is of the most distant to Jews. Marriages between relatives happened in Los Altos because people had to marry people that lived fairly close by because of lack of modern transportation and people want to stay close to friends and family. It was also because the españoles tried to marry other españoles in order to have a higher status in society.
You and the site you mentioned are trying to use coincidence and circumstantial evidence in lieu of factual or documented evidence. On this site we are supposed to try and be serious genealogists which means using documented evidence. If you have the documented evidence then many people would be very happy to see it.
Armando
I'm getting ready to add the information on Lope Ruiz de Esparza found in the book Catalago de Pasajeros a Indias Volumen VII.
The citation for Lope Ruis de Esparza, is in volume III, the entry is cited as #2.633.
The book has been digitized and is available from Family Search, but it appears you may have to go to a Family History Center to see it as the online catalog says it is "protected." Each entry has a reference to the source document in the Archivo General de Indias (for vol III, #2.633 in this case).
The introductory material explains the citations in the entries.
Thus you can cite the book as published noting the specific page and entry with the reference to the original source.
George Fulton
Would like to briefly chat with those of you researching: San Cristóbal de
la Barranca, Jalisco, Mexico.
From: "announce-request@lists.nuestrosranchos.org"
To: announce@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2015 5:20 PM
Subject: Anno
First time to view this microfilm and I was quickly reading through it because I want to find what I am looking for. But as I did speed reading I see that this one is starts out about:
Hi! Can anyone tell me if the name "Petra" is a nickname for something else? I just received a treasure box of genealogy research from a relative who has passed.
I have never seen that as a nickname but only as its own proper name. Perhaps she died young and the family didn't talk about her? Oftentimes I find siblings of relatives they didn't know they had because their mothers didn't want to talk about the children they had lost.
Rosalinda
Thank you, Rosalinda. The story on Petra is that after my great grandmother died in Texas, my great grandfather, Francisco, returned to Mexico to live. Petra married the widower, my great grandfather. (She married her sister's husband). This marriage was when she was in her late 30's/early 40's. The rest of the family is well documented, but she is not.
Sherri Mora
I started to pick up on going through the testament microfilm I had gone through. I was seeing “Hacienda De Tequesquite” year 1844. Saw this list of what looks like salaries of people:
In your first pictures (on the testament) it seams they are talking about a place "Alonso de la Madera" or could it be a place owned by him you probably know better, they are selling the items and mention the price at the end, I couldn't make up what were they except by "una onza de puntilla negra, se deja en un peso" (second link). Los "borseguis" (on the first link) are if I am not mistaken boots.
As for the map the 21 is "Rancho de Matorales" (Matorrales) which are bushes, hope it helps a little.
RJ Quiralta
was there any records there from colotlan/huejucar area.
Colotlan and Huejucar none so far. But it is all in Nueva Galicia (Jalisco) and Zacatecas.
Interesting? I looked up "Villa De La Purificacion" in PARS and found a 1773 map:
Ref. No. MP-MEXICO,295
http://www.archivesportaleurope.net/web/guest
Wow! Has names of a number of ranchos there and I see "Hacienda De San Diego" They all have numbers.
Can someone help me out in what is the name of this Rancho with number 21:
From: Tcarahq@aol.com [mailto:Tcarahq@aol.com]
Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2015 7:57 PM
To: jvc4321@aol.com
Subject: Fwd: Gen.
Erika and I have arranged for the 2nd meeting of the Nueva Galicia Genealogical Society Southern California chapter to be held on January 24, 2015.
Yo quiero ir!!
Steven Francisco Hernández López
Steven,
Email me at nggssocal@nuevagalicia.org, and I'll send you the informational flyer.
Rosalinda
ESPANOL ABAJO
Sanchez-Castellanos
Solo como comentario el hijo que tuvieron en Tlaltenango se llamo Diego de Ugarte
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-15187-51312-10?cc=1804458&wc…
Y su padrino de bautizo fue Hernando de Haro y Cecilia Lopez, y si Lorenzo de Haro fue el padrino de bodas de Petronila, todo hace sospechar que los 3 eran hermanos (aun no hay pruebas)
Ademas de Petra o Petronila de Haro, hubo en la misma epoca un Tal Juan de Bojorquez y su hija llamada Maria de Saucedo que tenia mucha relacion con Thomasina de Haro y Saucedo, ya que eran compadres por bautismo y tambien compadres por la boda de su hija Maria de Saucedo y curiosamente no hay descendencia en Tlaltenago ni indicios de que hayan vivido mucho tiempo en el lugar.
Edgar Olguin Diaz
hola
arturo ramos
un cordial saludo
amigo aver si me puedes ayudar
estos son los datos que tengo de una linea de mi familia es la siguiente:
juan eligio de aro (n aprox 1738) y maria phelipa correa (aprox 1740)
hijos de esta pareja
1 rita quiteria aro correa (baut 20 may 1772) casada con juan leonicio robles de casas
matrimonio 30 de abril 1791 jerez zacatecas donde yo desciendo
2 decardia de aro n aprox 1766
3 antonio de aro n aprox 1768
4 maria micaela de aro correa baut 12 mayo 1770 jerez zac
5 maria guillerma del aro correa baut 15 feb 1774 jerez zac
6 petra nolasco aro correa baut 6 feb 1776 jerez zac}
7 juana maria eligia correa baut 15 mayo 1778 jerez zac
8 josef cresencia aro correa baut 25 abril 1780 jerez zac
9 maria francisca aro correa baut 19 marzo 1782
10 maria decideria aro correa baut 2 junio 1784 jerez zac
11 guadalupe de aro correa n aprox 1786
12 maria antonia del haro n aprox 1788
13 maria francisca de haro correa baut 25 mayo 1800 jerez
my files are on Rootsweb.com. I could not find the parents of Juan Eligio and Maria Felipa Correa but do have my information with the document film number listed of their marriage date and death date.
My file is called Mexico my base person is my Father Chet (Aniceto) Castanon. You can go to the index to find what surname you are looking for.
My paternal family is from the district of Jerez, Zac
Linda Castanon-Long
________________________________
From: "edgar_eemo@hotmail.com"
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2013 6:48 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Who was Petronila Haro?
Edgar Olguin Diaz
hola
arturo ramos
un cordial saludo
amigo aver si me puedes ayudar
estos son los datos que tengo de una linea de mi familia es la siguiente:
juan eligio de aro (n aprox 1738) y maria phelipa correa (aprox 1740)
hijos de esta pareja
1 rita quiteria aro correa (baut 20 may 1772) casada con juan leonicio robles de casas
matrimonio 30 de abril 1791
En realidad, son una incógnita.
En esta ocasión no daré respuestas, si no que haré preguntas, pues el tema es para mí de interés directo.
En Tlaltenango, Pedro de Bobadilla casó con Maria de Saucedo y Haro. ¿Existirá relación entre Maria y Hernando?
Hernando de Haro, primer marido de Cecilia López de Ayala, dice ser hijo de Hernando de Haro y Bocanegra. ¿Haro y Bocanegra?
Lo del nombre de Petronila de Haro me remite a Pedro Ruíz de Haro y Leonor de Arias, en Compostela, Nayarit (la primer Guadalajara), muy conocidos por los genealogistas de la antigua Nueva Galicia, pues una hija de estos se llamó Petronila, según lo dice Pedro en su testamento otorgado el 22 de febrero de 1560, casada con Gonzalo Morillo y en segundas nupcias con Fernando Costilla y Espinoza.
quienes son padrinos de Juana, hija de Juan deAvalos y Juana de Bracamonte, en Guadalajara, en 24 de enero de 1608. ¿Esas Petronila estarán relacionadas?
Pedro Ruíz de Haro, próximo a Nuño Beltrán, padre de Petronila tuvo
Guillermo:
Segun los datos que tengo, Hendando Haro, primer marido de Cecilia Lopez de Ayala fue hijo de Juan de Miramontes y Maria (Haro y) Saucedo. La primera esposa de este Hernando Haro fue Maria Gonzalez de Mendoza y con ella tuvo un hijo, Nicolas Haro, quien fue presbitero y en sus declaraciones de merito para su ordenacion declara ser hijo de Hernando Haro Bocanegra y bisnieto de Pedro Bobadilla y Maria de Saucedo.
Queda claro que Maria (Haro y) Saucedo, madre de Hernando Haro, Lorenzo de Miramontes y Juan de Miramontes fue descendiente de Pedro Bobadilla y Maria Saucedo... probablemente su nieta ya que se acostumbraba llamar a las hijas mayores por sus abuelas maternas, incluso con el mismo apellido.
Que tuviera un hijo llamado Hernando de Haro, igual que el capitan fundador de Compostela y marido de Doña Teresa de Colio y de la Torre, y posiblemente una hija o sobrina llamada Petronila Haro nos deja postular con bastante certidumbre que Maria (Haro y) Saucedo y su hermana
Carlos Peredo
Estimado don Guillermo y demás estimados miembros de este foro,
Con el gran gusto de saludarlos de nuevo, me comunico con ustedes en esta ocasión para preguntarles si han tenido avances en el estudio de los Ruíz de Haro y los Ruiz de Velasco y Haro que poblaron Compostela y Nueva Galicia?
He invertido un buen número de horas y fatiga de mis ojos tratando de encontrar algún parentesco entre esas familias y al momento no he tenido ningún exito.
He visto aquí en este foro que se logró establecer la ascendencia de Baltazar, Diego, Bartolomé y Ana Temiño de Bañuelos y Velasco; trabajo que me pareció emocionante y que los hace nietos de Sancha Velasco y bisnietos de Sancho Sánchez de Velasco Sr. de Arnedo y de Nieva que fue hermano del primer conde de Nieva y padre de la segunda y la tercera condesas de NIeva. Sancho fue también hijo del primer conde de Haro Don Pedro Fernández de Velasco.
Sin embargo, no he encontrado ningún trabajo que ligue a esa ilustre familia con dos
-----Original Message-----
From: arturo.ramos2
To: research
Sent: Sat, Sep 25, 2010 9:43 am
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Who was Petronila Haro? Quien fue Petronila
Haro?
ESPANOL ABAJO
In gathering information on the Haro and Miramontes clan of Tlaltenango
for my
upcoming book, I have run across a family that I have been unable to
connect to
the rest of the Haros. The family is that of Petronila Haro, married
to Juan de
Ugarte in 1626. The family had a son in Tlaltenango (Pedro Ugarte) in
1631,
before moving to Hidalgo del Parral sometime before 1641, when they had
another
son (Tomas de Ugarte).
Does anyone have information on this family? Could this be a sister of
Hernando
Haro and Lorenzo Haro (who was a sponsor at her wedding)?
ESPANOL
En la recopilacion de infomacion de la familia Haro y Miramontes de
Tlaltenango
para mi libro, he encontrado una familia que no he podido vincular al
resto de
los Haros. La familia es la de Petronila Haro, casada con Juan de
Ugarte
San Martin de Bolaños,